Ted Sundquist Draft Blog Entrys 3 and 4: Talks about "Grey Goose" Clarett and others

[rovolution]

http://blog.denverbroncos.com/tedsundquist/2007/11/27/i-feel-a-draft-in-here-part-4/#more-8

[Bladerunner]

I find these posts pretty interesting, and regardless of whether you agree with Ted and the explanations he is talking about or not, the fact that the GM of the Broncos is blogging directly to the fans is pretty friggin cool.

[telluride]

But I’m not sure that I “see” a single player picked between our selection of Clarett and our next selection of Chris Myers (current OC starter) in the 6th round that would have made much of a major difference at this point in our ‘07 season.

And this, my friends, is why we have a sub .500 team today. What an amazingly stupid statement by Sundquist. Sadly, such thinking shows the same sort of arrogance and hubris that I've been slamming Shanny for of late.

It's time to clean house. New head coach, new GM.

[That One Guy]

And this, my friends, is why we have a sub .500 team today. What an amazingly stupid statement by Sundquist. Sadly, such thinking shows the same sort of arrogance and hubris that I've been slamming Shanny for of late.

It's time to clean house. New head coach, new GM.

Like who? To state who could've contributed to validating your point rather than merely looking like pointless complaining.

[Kaylore]

Like who? To state who could've contributed to validating your point rather than merely looking like pointless complaining.

Hey now, we mustn't leave Telluride with nothing to do!

[bpc]

I just dislike how he justify's things. "Well the guy picked opposite so and so wasn't any good either so it justify's us picking this guy."

George Foster wasn't a two year starter... he started maybe 7 or 8 games in two years. See, its crap like that which pisses me off.

Just be honest. He should have said, there wasn't the depth we were looking for an OT but we thought this guy would be good but he ended up sucking. He was so bad we felt Erik Pears could beat him out.

Fluff piece.

[SoCalBronco]

I don't like Ted Sundquist from a personal standpoint (i.e. he has no respect for the intelligence of fans whatsoever) but the FO gets too much criticism for the draft. They have done a solid, albeit not spectacular job there. He doesn't need to justify anything on that, he's standing on good ground. On FA, however.....

[telluride]

Like who? To state who could've contributed to validating your point rather than merely looking like pointless complaining.

Good Lord, you apologists will stop at nothing. So you're saying, as Sundquist is apparently saying, that not a single player in the 70-plus players taken between Clarett and Chris Meyers were worth a damn? Not a single player might have added depth to our D-line, or provided some good bodies for our special teams, or contributed in any way? What you're saying, and what Sundquist is saying with his stomach-turning Shanny-esque justifications, is that if the Broncos had in fact had a 4th or 5th round pick that year that they would have not used it at all, because there wasn't a single player that might have helped our team. And still you wonder why our special teams suck, and why our defense sucks, and why we're a losing team?

I don't know what's worse, that Shanafans like you actually buy into this swill, or that Shanny and Sundquist and Bates et al believe -- know -- they can get away with it.

[TheDave]

Many of you have brought up (on multiple occasions) the displeasure of “misses” on players drafted on the second day. Did you know that there are currently more college free agents active in the NFL than the combined total of all 5th, 6th and 7th round selections of the NFL draft and that those players on average have a higher playtime percentage than their counterparts in those three rounds?


Assuming that is true that is an absolutely amazing stat.

[WABronco]

I don't like Ted Sundquist from a personal standpoint (i.e. he has no respect for the intelligence of fans whatsoever) but the FO gets too much criticism for the draft. They have done a solid, albeit not spectacular job there. He doesn't need to justify anything on that, he's standing on good ground. On FA, however.....

How so?

[SoCalBronco]

How so?

It's like he thinks fans are dumb or something. He routinely makes statements that anyone who follows the team on a close basis (like this board) would know are completely false. It's like he expects fans to just eat up everything he says. He says things that are absurd with a straight face. Right after the draft he said we didn't draft a safety because there was nobody in the draft that could unseat the 32 year old, coming off an ACL tear Fergy. That was an obvious lie. There was at least 4-5 guys that could IMMEDIATELY unseat Fergy 10 minutes into camp. I mean, for Pete sake, he has already been unseated by a former UDFA in Abdullah. A couple years ago he kept reassuring fans on the radio, "oh dont worry, we'll get a first rounder for Trevor for sure", when it was increasingly obvious that he (Trevor) was becoming an albatross around our necks that we were trying to get anything we could for in exchange (and we ended up getting jack ****, so desperate for the cap relief finally). There have been other statements like this...just patently absurd on their face and they are said with a straight face, too. He just thinks fans are stupid or something. Don't tell me no safety in the draft could unseat Fergy, just tell us the truth, be reasonable, just say "we had only a limited amount of picks, we had some tough choices to make, and we're happy with the guys we got". That's a perfectly fine statement. Don't go out of your way to lie to us. We're not morons.

[Garcia Bronco]

It's like he thinks fans are dumb or something. He routinely makes statements that anyone who follows the team on a close basis (like this board) would know are completely false. It's like he expects fans to just eat up everything he says. He says things that are absurd with a straight face. Right after the draft he said we didn't draft a safety because there was nobody in the draft that could unseat the 32 year old, coming off an ACL tear Fergy. That was an obvious lie. There was at least 4-5 guys that could IMMEDIATELY unseat Fergy 10 minutes into camp. I mean, for Pete Sake's he has already been unseated by a former UDFA in Abdullah. A couple years ago he kept reassuring fans on the radio, "oh dont worry, we'll get a first rounder for Trevor for sure", when it was increasingly obvious that he (Trevor) was becoming an albatross around our necks that we were trying to get anything we could for in exchange (and we ended up getting jack ****, so desperate for the cap relief finally). There have been other statements like this...just patently absurd on their face and they are said with a straight face, too. He just thinks fans are stupid or something. Don't tell me no safety in the draft was better than Fergy, just tell us the truth, be reasonable, just say "we had only a limited amount of picks, we had some tough choices to make, and we're happy with the guys we got". That's a perfectly fine statement. Don't go out of your way to lie to us.

Hold on.....we had to dump Pyrce because of the CBA not being completed.

[SoCalBronco]

Hold on.....we had to dump Pyrce because of the CBA not being completed.

We were in a financial crunch either way. Even the year before, Trevor had us by the balls because of his cap number and we were trying to deal him, with no one biting, which left us to quickly and radically reconfigure "The Plan" try to put together a backup plan quickly to try to help the DL out without spending alot of money (because we didnt have it), which is very hard to do. Getting the Browncos and trading for Warren was probably the best we could do given our resources. It was only late in the game, after the fact that Trevor agreed to short-term bandaid restructure after FA was basically done, so it didnt help us at all. We then backed the problem up another year, and then it came back again and we finally just released him because we couldnt get ANYTHING of value in a trade. We did need cap help, but under no circumstances should Sundquist have been reassuring fans that "sure, we are giong to get a first rounder" when it was obvious we were just trying to get rid of the whole problem, and anything we got out of it (which turned out to be nothing but a **** sandwich) would be gravy. It's like he thinks people are not tuned into reality at all. "Everything is great.....look over here!"

[Garcia Bronco]

They were depending on a bunch of cap space though when he made those comments.

[lex]

After reading that, Im kind of shocked that we had the drafts we have the last couple of years, especially 2006. I have very little confidence in this guy. I like how he is trying SO hard to snowjob everyone on the Clarett pick. I like how he defends it by throwing Marcus Thomas and players like Davis, Gary, and Anderson out there and hides behind that. What he completely glosses over on Clarett is that he was a draft that was made after signing Ron Dayne, who is similar to Clarett...and at the time, Dayne was the 3rd string RB. We had Anderson and Tatum as our 1 and 2. It was a waste of a pick just to try to prove, "hey, we can even turn this guy into a good RB...we're smarter than everyone else." It was dumb, no matter how you slice it. Even if Dallas was going to take him, so what? We didnt need him with another project in Ron Dayne in the fold. I agree with SoCalBronco, either Sundquist is that oblivious or he thinks everyone else is. This guy makes no sense.

[ro_50]

I thought it was going to be an insightful piece into how he goes about drafting certain players, but he defends every pick to the fans and he just downplay their criticism with stats to defend the selection of middlebrooks and guys like george foster.

Its funny how he throws out the PFT, Kiper and other rankings to back up his assertion.

The only thing he readily admits too is overvaluing Darius Watts.

[chaz]

And this, my friends, is why we have a sub .500 team today. What an amazingly stupid statement by Sundquist. Sadly, such thinking shows the same sort of arrogance and hubris that I've been slamming Shanny for of late.

It's time to clean house. New head coach, new GM.

you're unbelievable...

[NFLBRONCO]

I don't like Ted Sundquist from a personal standpoint (i.e. he has no respect for the intelligence of fans whatsoever) but the FO gets too much criticism for the draft. They have done a solid, albeit not spectacular job there. He doesn't need to justify anything on that, he's standing on good ground. On FA, however.....

Yep

If we did alot better in FA I don't think most fans would be b****ing about the FO.

I still say the LIFETIME contract Bowlen offered Shanny publicly is one of the biggest problems to date. I don't doubt he works hard wants to win and is one of the best coaches around. I do think he makes moves a guy who doesn't have to worry about his job. Even if Bowlen wants Shanny for as long as he wants why not make it appear that he is under the gun and see the moves he made then I bet we'd be closer to a SB team.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

I understand SoCal's reasoning, though I think there has to be a lot of politicking when youre a GM. I don't think he actually believes true broncos fans think that there were no safeties in the draft, he's just covering himself much like a politician would. Case in point is his justification of George Foster, which is laughable. Did he honestly compare George to Gary Zimmerman? Does he honestly think anyone believes it? Probably not...but thats not the point. Appearance is everything.

[SoCalBronco]

I understand SoCal's reasoning, though I think there has to be a lot of politicking when youre a GM. I don't think he actually believes true broncos fans think that there were no safeties in the draft, he's just covering himself much like a politician would. Case in point is his justification of George Foster, which is laughable. Did he honestly compare George to Gary Zimmerman? Does he honestly think anyone believes it? Probably not...but thats not the point. Appearance is everything.

I understand and agree with that angle, I know there has to be some politicking...obviously you cant go out and say "oh ****, we really ****ed this up" or anything like that, but the art of politicking is framing something in a positive, if not entirely accurate light, while still making it plausible enough to be believable. Sundy goes way too overboard on it so that it detracts so much from the plausibility that he isn't even an effective politician.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

I understand and agree with that angle, I know there has to be some politicking...obviously you cant go out and say "oh ****, we really ****ed this up" or anything like that, but the art of politicking is framing something in a positive, if not entirely accurate light, while still making it plausible enough to be believable. Sundy goes way too overboard on it so that it detracts so much from the plausibility that he isn't even an effective politician.

I agree with that. But you're smarter than the average bear. I assume he feels it appeases some people, and i bet it does. But yes, youre right. I never said he was a GOOD politician

[broncocalijohn]

And this, my friends, is why we have a sub .500 team today. What an amazingly stupid statement by Sundquist. Sadly, such thinking shows the same sort of arrogance and hubris that I've been slamming Shanny for of late.

It's time to clean house. New head coach, new GM.

he has a great point. How many players were drafted in between those two that couldnt have contribute. We wasted a 3rd rounder on a player like Phillips which is a waste. I am not sure why the Broncos fell it in their hearts to be the savior of problomatic players. Hell, we would be Concinnati Broncos if those players knew how to break the law in college.

[SpringStein]

Marion Barber?
Brandon Jacobs?
Darren Sproles?

Those are 3 RB's that went in the round after Mo. Of course none of them could help us.

But looking at the draft list, there were a lot of missses in the 4th/5th round that year.

[That One Guy]

Good Lord, you apologists will stop at nothing. So you're saying, as Sundquist is apparently saying, that not a single player in the 70-plus players taken between Clarett and Chris Meyers were worth a damn? Not a single player might have added depth to our D-line, or provided some good bodies for our special teams, or contributed in any way? What you're saying, and what Sundquist is saying with his stomach-turning Shanny-esque justifications, is that if the Broncos had in fact had a 4th or 5th round pick that year that they would have not used it at all, because there wasn't a single player that might have helped our team. And still you wonder why our special teams suck, and why our defense sucks, and why we're a losing team?

I don't know what's worse, that Shanafans like you actually buy into this swill, or that Shanny and Sundquist and Bates et al believe -- know -- they can get away with it.

I wasn't really criticizing your statement as much as I was criticizing your posting style. More respected posters make a statement like you did but use names to provide facts. All your post said was "we could've done better!" Well no sh..., of course we could've done better. Tell us who would've been better and it makes a factual based post.

And I think Sundquist doing this is merely to combat that whole "Shanny the GM sucks" week of news stories that we had. For that one week, every sporting news people had a comparable story up and the same people who would've read those stories and been convinced, will also read Sunny's stuff and be convinced to put the orange glasses back on. If you knew the drafts sucked before those articles came out, you probably weren't convinced by his pieces either. It's basic damage control, I think.

[-Slap-]

Marion Barber?
Brandon Jacobs?
Darren Sproles?

Those are 3 RB's that went in the round after Mo. Of course none of them could help us.

But looking at the draft list, there were a lot of missses in the 4th/5th round that year.

Lends a lot of credence to SoCal's theory that Ted doesn't respect the intellect of the fans very much. I think my mom could watch Marion Barber carry the football a couple times and deduce his presence would greatly improve any football team.

[rugbythug]

People should actually read the Blog they are trying to attack.

As I look at who we passed at the position, the only player that jumps out on the second day is Marion Barber III. Barber has shown productive ability with the Cowboys for sure, but was laden with his own past physical problems and deemed too high a medical risk (longevity issues) for us to take at the time. And yes, we were fully aware of his Minnesota background. So much so that Coach Shanahan had coached his father for the Gophers in ‘79.
There are a number of RB’s still active in the League from the ‘05 draft, including Brandon Jacobs (NYG) and Darren Sproles (San Diego), neither of which met the past profile for what we look for at the position. Hindsight certainly is 20/20. But I’m not sure that I “see” a single player picked between our selection of Clarett and our next selection of Chris Myers (current OC starter) in the 6th round that would have made much of a major difference at this point in our ‘07 season

What I find Hillarious is the Revisionist History the posters on the board have. Shanny's drafts actually count and you know what they are 3 years from now. Internet Hero's get draft every team and then never write it down and go I knew back in 04 that such and such guy was way better. I am the smartest man on the internet!!

[lex]

People should actually read the Blog they are trying to attack.

As I look at who we passed at the position, the only player that jumps out on the second day is Marion Barber III. Barber has shown productive ability with the Cowboys for sure, but was laden with his own past physical problems and deemed too high a medical risk (longevity issues) for us to take at the time. And yes, we were fully aware of his Minnesota background. So much so that Coach Shanahan had coached his father for the Gophers in ‘79.
There are a number of RB’s still active in the League from the ‘05 draft, including Brandon Jacobs (NYG) and Darren Sproles (San Diego), neither of which met the past profile for what we look for at the position. Hindsight certainly is 20/20. But I’m not sure that I “see” a single player picked between our selection of Clarett and our next selection of Chris Myers (current OC starter) in the 6th round that would have made much of a major difference at this point in our ‘07 season

What I find Hillarious is the Revisionist History the posters on the board have. Shanny's drafts actually count and you know what they are 3 years from now. Internet Hero's get draft every team and then never write it down and go I knew back in 04 that such and such guy was way better. I am the smartest man on the internet!!

Sundquist said something similar at the outset of his blog but also said that people fail to acknowledge the circumstance at that time. But he spends a lot of time defending Clarett while completely ignoring the fact that we had just signed Ron Dayne prior to the Clarett selection. Ron Dayne was/is similar in style but was more accomplished than Clarett. Sundquist completely neglects to mention this though. He's guilty of what he accuses everyone else of.

[SpringStein]

The issue is dismissing out of hand that there weren't any other players chosen bfore Myers that would have made a difference. So do you really think that MoC's physical, legal and attitude issues were a greater risk than Barber's physical ones were? I was a huge fan of Barbers for our system and in two mocks that year had selected him. Big deal - we all (including teams) hit and miss on particular players.

It's the attitude that says it was the best possible choice, rather than saying hey, we took a shot on someone that was high risk and high reward and in hindsight it wasn't a very good selection. Anything wrong with that?

[Beantown Bronco]

What I find Hillarious is the Revisionist History the posters on the board have.

I think about this every time I read about someone bagging on them for the George Foster pick. Seriously, they needed an OT. There were only two unanimous first round talents at the position: Foster and Kwame Harris. Both have turned out to be busts.....but there was know way of knowing this at the time obviously.

Good luck finding anything better out of that 2003 draft as well. It sucked. Knowing now what they knew then, I'm sure they would've just traded all those picks for future ones.

[SpringStein]

I think about this every time I read about someone bagging on them for the George Foster pick. Seriously, they needed an OT. There were only two unanimous first round talents at the position: Foster and Kwame Harris. Both have turned out to be busts.....but there was know way of knowing this at the time obviously.

Good luck finding anything better out of that 2003 draft as well. It sucked. Knowing now what they knew then, I'm sure they would've just traded all those picks for future ones.


There was one other name out there that was being considered - Eric Steinbach who was the "safest" selection - but wasn't considered to have as much upside at OT as the others. But everyone knew at the least he would be an outstanding OG.

BTW - I didn't know anyone who considered Foster a first rounder at the time. He was pretty much considered a mid 2nd rounder at best.

[Beantown Bronco]

Sundquist said something similar at the outset of his blog but also said that people fail to acknowledge the circumstance at that time. But he spends a lot of time defending Clarett while completely ignoring the fact that we had just signed Ron Dayne prior to the Clarett selection. Ron Dayne was/is similar in style but was more accomplished than Clarett. Sundquist completely neglects to mention this though. He's guilty of what he accuses everyone else of.

Do you really want him to tell the truth about what happened? If so, that would require him throwing Bobby Turner under the bus. He's not about to do that.....and would you respect him more if he did?

[SpringStein]

Do you really want him to tell the truth about what happened? If so, that would require him throwing Bobby Turner under the bus. He's not about to do that.....and would you respect him more if he did?


That's a good point.

[Beantown Bronco]

There was one other name out there that was being considered - Eric Steinbach who was the "safest" selection - but wasn't considered to have as much upside at OT as the others. But everyone knew at the least he would be an outstanding OG.

BTW - I didn't know anyone who considered Foster a first rounder at the time. He was pretty much considered a mid 2nd rounder at best.

Steinbach was a guard his entire time in college and the Broncos did not have a need at guard.....they needed a true tackle. And there was most definitely a consensus that Foster was a first round talent along with Harris. I clearly remember the debates here between the two, with many here citing all the relevant reports.

[lex]

Do you really want him to tell the truth about what happened? If so, that would require him throwing Bobby Turner under the bus. He's not about to do that.....and would you respect him more if he did?

Theres a difference between telling the truth about what happened and lying about what happened. They dont necessarily need to throw Turner under the bus. He could simply say, "WE screwed up."

[bronco militia]

He could simply say, "WE screwed up."

he did...they cut his ass before the season even started.

what else do you need to know?

[bronco militia]

there's no doubt in my mind that this team takes the draft seriously, but not to the point all you ****ing draft day retards take it.

get a life

[Elway777]

Clarett was one of the worst picks ever by the Broncos. I remember I wanted Marion Barber so bad because he come from a zone blocking scheme . It was just a poor decision on the Broncos concidering his 40 time at the combine.

[vancejohnson82]

The real problem with our draft classes is going to hit us in the near future when we are picking up farmhands from North Dakota to play offensive tackle for us.

There has been very little done to improve our OL through the draft (as far as high first day picks are concerneed) and its going to catch up. I love how the younger lesser knowns have stepped up and contributed but L.A.L (LIfe After Lepsis) is fast approaching and is going to be ugly.

Also, thank god Abdullah stepped to the plate. I could not understand why we weren't going after safeties these last few years.

we are a .500 club this year just like many had predicted.

"We are what we thought we were!"

[lex]

he did...they cut his ass before the season even started.

what else do you need to know?

He's not defending the outcome of the pick. That much is obvious. He's defending the reasoning behind making picks but even when you look at it in those terms its flawed.

[Garcia Bronco]

The real problem with our draft classes is going to hit us in the near future when we are picking up farmhands from North Dakota to play offensive tackle for us.

There has been very little done to improve our OL through the draft (as far as high first day picks are concerneed) and its going to catch up. I love how the younger lesser knowns have stepped up and contributed but L.A.L (LIfe After Lepsis) is fast approaching and is going to be ugly.

Also, thank god Abdullah stepped to the plate. I could not understand why we weren't going after safeties these last few years.

we are a .500 club this year just like many had predicted.

"We are what we thought we were!"


I don't share your pessimistic appraisal of the situation. I think we're right on time. Most good o-line players are late rounders to begin with

[Beantown Bronco]

Clarett was one of the worst picks ever by the Broncos.

Let's not get carried away. It wasn't even the worst pick in the last five years, let alone "ever."

He was a 3rd round supplemental pick and, as a result of cutting him, they had to eat a whopping signing bonus of.......$0.00. What a tragedy.

[Beantown Bronco]

There has been very little done to improve our OL through the draft (as far as high first day picks are concerneed) and its going to catch up.

Two first day OTs in the last 4 drafts is not "very little." How many other successful teams have invested much more than that?

[vancejohnson82]

Garcia,

My pessimism is a bit far-reaching at this point but perhaps I'm being a bit too trigger-happy with my assumption.

my concern is that our O-line play has been so consistent over the last decade or so that it has become a given. The line play this year has been normal, as in comparison to the rest of the league, but far from the normal Denver O-line.

First down negative rushes and inabilty to rely on the ground game have not been concerns for as far back as '94. It changes gameplans especially for a guy like Shanahan.

Their pass protection has been great this year though, i must say.

[vancejohnson82]

Beantown,

I know Foster, but who was the other one in the first four rounds?

Kuper and Myers were 6 and 7 rounders right?

OH, RYAN HARRIS!

[orinjkrush]

It's like he thinks fans are dumb or something. He routinely makes statements that anyone who follows the team on a close basis (like this board) would know are completely false. It's like he expects fans to just eat up everything he says. He says things that are absurd with a straight face. Right after the draft he said we didn't draft a safety because there was nobody in the draft that could unseat the 32 year old, coming off an ACL tear Fergy. That was an obvious lie. There was at least 4-5 guys that could IMMEDIATELY unseat Fergy 10 minutes into camp. I mean, for Pete sake, he has already been unseated by a former UDFA in Abdullah. A couple years ago he kept reassuring fans on the radio, "oh dont worry, we'll get a first rounder for Trevor for sure", when it was increasingly obvious that he (Trevor) was becoming an albatross around our necks that we were trying to get anything we could for in exchange (and we ended up getting jack ****, so desperate for the cap relief finally). There have been other statements like this...just patently absurd on their face and they are said with a straight face, too. He just thinks fans are stupid or something. Don't tell me no safety in the draft could unseat Fergy, just tell us the truth, be reasonable, just say "we had only a limited amount of picks, we had some tough choices to make, and we're happy with the guys we got". That's a perfectly fine statement. Don't go out of your way to lie to us. We're not morons.

i think some (most) of it is dissembling to keep opponents at bay, egos from being ruffled and other "for the good of the team, not for fans" purposes

[rugbythug]

The real problem with our draft classes is going to hit us in the near future when we are picking up farmhands from North Dakota to play offensive tackle for us.

There has been very little done to improve our OL through the draft (as far as high first day picks are concerneed) and its going to catch up. I love how the younger lesser knowns have stepped up and contributed but L.A.L (LIfe After Lepsis) is fast approaching and is going to be ugly.
Also, thank god Abdullah stepped to the plate. I could not understand why we weren't going after safeties these last few years.

we are a .500 club this year just like many had predicted.

"We are what we thought we were!"

The guys everyone praised as being a great line and Playing well in 05. Was made up of late round picks and UFA (-George Foster)

[SonOfLe-loLang]

Clarett was one of the worst picks ever by the Broncos. I remember I wanted Marion Barber so bad because he come from a zone blocking scheme . It was just a poor decision on the Broncos concidering his 40 time at the combine.

What does his 40 time have to do with anything? he wasn't cut because he couldnt perform

[Inkana7]

I just dislike how he justify's things. "Well the guy picked opposite so and so wasn't any good either so it justify's us picking this guy."

George Foster wasn't a two year starter... he started maybe 7 or 8 games in two years. See, its crap like that which pisses me off.

Just be honest. He should have said, there wasn't the depth we were looking for an OT but we thought this guy would be good but he ended up sucking. He was so bad we felt Erik Pears could beat him out.

Fluff piece.

No, George Foster was in fact a two year starter. Actually, I think he was a 3 year starter.

[~Crash~]

After reading that, Im kind of shocked that we had the drafts we have the last couple of years, especially 2006. I have very little confidence in this guy. I like how he is trying SO hard to snowjob everyone on the Clarett pick. I like how he defends it by throwing Marcus Thomas and players like Davis, Gary, and Anderson out there and hides behind that. What he completely glosses over on Clarett is that he was a draft that was made after signing Ron Dayne, who is similar to Clarett...and at the time, Dayne was the 3rd string RB. We had Anderson and Tatum as our 1 and 2. It was a waste of a pick just to try to prove, "hey, we can even turn this guy into a good RB...we're smarter than everyone else." It was dumb, no matter how you slice it. Even if Dallas was going to take him, so what? We didnt need him with another project in Ron Dayne in the fold. I agree with SoCalBronco, either Sundquist is that oblivious or he thinks everyone else is. This guy makes no sense.

The last 3 drafts have been bumper in great picks and ted has been our GM 3 years I think people are nuts !!!!!!!!!!!! :welcome:

[~Crash~]

No, George Foster was in fact a two year starter. Actually, I think he was a 3 year starter.

he was okay his first two years then he got wierd after he broke that guys leg he lost his desire I guess!??!

[~Crash~]

the last three drafts have been really good ! I wish people would not be so hard on our New GM . heck the guy seems to be bring in some decent young players each year so far .

[Elway777]

The last 3 drafts have been bumper in great picks and ted has been our GM 3 years I think people are nuts !!!!!!!!!!!! :welcome: It showed that he was a risky pick and not a hard worker.

[Requiem]

What's ****ing hilarious in all of Sundquists talk (and I typed that in there) is that he said Marion Barber had longevity concerns (2002 hamstring injury, redshirt - but ****ing played two full seasons after that and had monster years) and said that's why he wasn't worth the selection, but spent high selections (higher) on people who were already injured or have been injured in their senior seasons.

Made no sense.

His justification for taking Clarett over Barber is bull****.

[broncocalijohn]

There was one other name out there that was being considered - Eric Steinbach who was the "safest" selection - but wasn't considered to have as much upside at OT as the others. But everyone knew at the least he would be an outstanding OG.

BTW - I didn't know anyone who considered Foster a first rounder at the time. He was pretty much considered a mid 2nd rounder at best.

George Foster was picked way too high as the Broncos even labeled him a project. I believe it was in the Broncos magazine season ticket holders received after that draft. His style didnt fit our OL and he proved it every game he got in. He still sucks and false starts for the lead in the league.

[azbroncfan]

Marion Barber?
Brandon Jacobs?
Darren Sproles?

Those are 3 RB's that went in the round after Mo. Of course none of them could help us.

But looking at the draft list, there were a lot of missses in the 4th/5th round that year.

Why would we want Marion Barber when we have Mike Bell who is just as good. Just ask Footstepsfrom27.

[BroncoSoja]

What's ****ing hilarious in all of Sundquists talk (and I typed that in there) is that he said Marion Barber had longevity concerns (2002 hamstring injury, redshirt - but ****ing played two full seasons after that and had monster years) and said that's why he wasn't worth the selection, but spent high selections (higher) on people who were already injured or have been injured in their senior seasons.

Made no sense.

His justification for taking Clarett over Barber is bull****.

No kidding, I also found it comical when he stated this "Hindsight certainly is 20/20. But I’m not sure that I “see” a single player picked between our selection of Clarett and our next selection of Chris Myers (current OC starter) in the 6th round that would have made much of a major difference at this point in our ‘07 season."

So he is saying that Brandon Jacobs or Marion Barber would not made a major difference? ROFL...If we had either of those two in this system I can tell you for sure we would not have had to go after Travis Henry AT ALL.

I mean serioulsy can you people imagine what Marion Barber would be able to do in this system? That guys runs with a intent to hurt people each and every time he gets the ball...

Missing out on a guys is one thing, hell it happens.. But making a foolish statement like what he said above is crazy. God I can't wait for him and his puppet master to leave.

[BroncoSoja]

Why would we want Marion Barber when we have Mike Bell who is just as good. Just ask Footstepsfrom27.

I hope that was sarcasm...

[-Slap-]

It's kind of worrisome when your GM can't tell who the good players were in a draft three years after the fact.

[chrisp]

I think the point that Sundquist is trying to make (which is getting lost amongst the vitriol) is that they always knew Clarett was a boom-or-bust type pick: he would likely either be a franchise back or a bust, he wouldn't be a respectable role player a la Mike Bell or whoever.

When he mentions Marion Barber its as an example of one player they might have picked who may also have that franchise-type ability (although that's still an open question IMHO).

Obviously in hindsight there are other players he could have picked that would have contributed more than Clarrett, but that's becuase Clarrett contributed diddley-squat. He always had all the talent in the world, just the wrong head on his shoulders.

I'm not 100% sold on Sundquist, and I definitely think he's not very good at handling the media (I agree that he 'dumbs it down' for the fans more than most) but I have to concede that there was definite upside to the Clarrett pick even though it didn' work out.

You also have to accept that our drafts have improved in recent years, and that's co-incided with more profile and authority for Sundquist in the process, so i find it hard to believe that he's the hands-down-sack-him-now-idiot that some of you people seem to be saying he is.

[-Slap-]

I don't think there's ever an upside to bringing in a personality like Clarett. The guy turned on his teammates and university and everything else. Our track record of success with reclamation projects and ne'er-do-wells is utterly abysmal. Travis Henry and Simeon Rice were the latest bad guys we tried to "give another chance". It's like the frog and scorpion, but no matter how many times we get stung, we still keep offering these guys a ride.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

I don't think there's ever an upside to bringing in a personality like Clarett. The guy turned on his teammates and university and everything else. Our track record of success with reclamation projects and ne'er-do-wells is utterly abysmal. Travis Henry and Simeon Rice were the latest bad guys we tried to "give another chance". It's like the frog and scorpion, but no matter how many times we get stung, we still keep offering these guys a ride.

I know about 4-5 years ago, Bowlen was fed up with the thugs and put the hammer down on the entire staff, including the non football staff. Fired a couple of folk who did things that could reflect poorly on the organization. Wish he would take that stand firmly including the football operation.

[rugbythug]

This is so Funny to me. The horses mouth tells you exactly why the move was made. This was a late 3rd in 2005 mind you. And you guys are still all in a lather. You act like your insignificant knowledge even compares with the dossiers each NFL team puts together. So what if Barber played for two years after an injury. Does that mean he is totally healthy? The Broncos DR's checked him out and had reservations. This is so stupid and arrogant.

[azbroncfan]

I hope that was sarcasm...

Here you go....http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=1698368&highlight=marion+barber#post1698368

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=60493&highlight=marion+barber+mike+bell

[sirhcyennek81]

No kidding, I also found it comical when he stated this "Hindsight certainly is 20/20. But I’m not sure that I “see” a single player picked between our selection of Clarett and our next selection of Chris Myers (current OC starter) in the 6th round that would have made much of a major difference at this point in our ‘07 season."

So he is saying that Brandon Jacobs or Marion Barber would not made a major difference? ROFL...If we had either of those two in this system I can tell you for sure we would not have had to go after Travis Henry AT ALL.

I mean serioulsy can you people imagine what Marion Barber would be able to do in this system? That guys runs with a intent to hurt people each and every time he gets the ball...

Missing out on a guys is one thing, hell it happens.. But making a foolish statement like what he said above is crazy. God I can't wait for him and his puppet master to leave.


And this entire post is why some people should not have children.

We picked Clarrett, Denver thought he would be the better back, obviously that was wrong. Being an ass hat about a bad pick is retarded. For every Clarrett, you get a D Will or Marshall.

:Broncos:

[TheReverend]

What's ****ing hilarious in all of Sundquists talk (and I typed that in there) is that he said Marion Barber had longevity concerns (2002 hamstring injury, redshirt - but ****ing played two full seasons after that and had monster years) and said that's why he wasn't worth the selection, but spent high selections (higher) on people who were already injured or have been injured in their senior seasons.

Made no sense.

His justification for taking Clarett over Barber is bull****.

I agree with you, but you also need to take note of previous statements saying Sunquist and Shannahan take serious input from assistant and positions coaches for the draft and FA.

That being said, I think with his tenure and track record, Bobby Turner deserves carte blanche over every and any running back personnel decision.

[lex]

I think the point that Sundquist is trying to make (which is getting lost amongst the vitriol) is that they always knew Clarett was a boom-or-bust type pick: he would likely either be a franchise back or a bust, he wouldn't be a respectable role player a la Mike Bell or whoever.

When he mentions Marion Barber its as an example of one player they might have picked who may also have that franchise-type ability (although that's still an open question IMHO).

Obviously in hindsight there are other players he could have picked that would have contributed more than Clarrett, but that's becuase Clarrett contributed diddley-squat. He always had all the talent in the world, just the wrong head on his shoulders.

I'm not 100% sold on Sundquist, and I definitely think he's not very good at handling the media (I agree that he 'dumbs it down' for the fans more than most) but I have to concede that there was definite upside to the Clarrett pick even though it didn' work out.

You also have to accept that our drafts have improved in recent years, and that's co-incided with more profile and authority for Sundquist in the process, so i find it hard to believe that he's the hands-down-sack-him-now-idiot that some of you people seem to be saying he is.

No, what youre neglecting to consider (that isnt lost on most people) is that he was a big reach to pick him where he was. He was selected in a draft where we had no first round pick and after Denver had already signed Ron Dayne. Many were projecting him to go no higher than the 5th round. So, THAT we took him isnt the only issue in play. Its also where he was taken that makes it so dumb. And lets not pretend that the people who are complaining now are second guessing because most people even then were criticizing the pick in capital letters. The writing was on the wall for him to be a bust and everyone could see it. But they thought they were smarter than everyone else and also that we needed him. This is a perfect example of how trying to be clever often times is just being dumb.

[lex]

This is so Funny to me. The horses mouth tells you exactly why the move was made. This was a late 3rd in 2005 mind you. And you guys are still all in a lather. You act like your insignificant knowledge even compares with the dossiers each NFL team puts together. So what if Barber played for two years after an injury. Does that mean he is totally healthy? The Broncos DR's checked him out and had reservations. This is so stupid and arrogant.

People were criticizing this pick when it was made. People arent really second guessing at all. It was a horrible, indefensible pick.

[Beantown Bronco]

No, what youre neglecting to consider (that isnt lost on most people) is that he was a big reach to pick him where he was. He was selected in a draft where we had no first round pick and after Denver had already signed Ron Dayne. Many were projecting him to go no higher than the 5th round. So, THAT we took him isnt the only issue in play. Its also where he was taken that makes it so dumb. And lets not pretend that the people who are complaining now are second guessing because most people even then were criticizing the pick in capital letters. The writing was on the wall for him to be a bust and everyone could see it. But they thought they were smarter than everyone else and also that we needed him. This is a perfect example of how trying to be clever often times is just being dumb.

and just as many "knew" that he was going to the Cowboys with their 4th round pick. The Broncos didn't have a 4th rounder and couldn't trade that comp pick, so they had to pull the trigger to keep that from happening.

And, more importantly, they SIGNED him for 7th round money, NOT third round money. So to say they reached for him is really not accurate.

[vancejohnson82]

i agree...the way the contract was laid out ALMOST made it a gamble worth taking

[Jason in LA]

When I read the title of this thread I was thinking that Ted would actually talk about the Grey Goose that Clarrett was carrying. I wanted to know if that was ever confirmed.

[enjolras]

I'm probably the only person on this board that had no issue with the Clarret pick. They used a provisional 3rd rounder on the guy, who had tremendous upside. He was the most talented back in the draft, and we took a flyer on him. It (obviously) didn't work, but it was a gamble that was well worth it considering the strength of the rest of that draft.

It's much like the Marcus Thomas pick (so far so good)... so far it looks like they've taken a 4th round pick (more or less the same position as Clarret) and turned it into something with much more value. You win some, you lose some. To be a SB caliber team you need some of those risks to pan out. I'd argue that NE took very much the same risk with Randy Moss and it has turned out well for them.

[rugbythug]

and just as many "knew" that he was going to the Cowboys with their 4th round pick. The Broncos didn't have a 4th rounder and couldn't trade that comp pick, so they had to pull the trigger to keep that from happening.

And, more importantly, they SIGNED him for 7th round money, NOT third round money. So to say they reached for him is really not accurate.

Funny that the cowboys were also going to pick Clarrett over barber. What a bunch of morons

[rugbythug]

People were criticizing this pick when it was made. People arent really second guessing at all. It was a horrible, indefensible pick.

So Sayeth the LEX and let no one disagree!

[sirhcyennek81]

I'm probably the only person on this board that had no issue with the Clarret pick. They used a provisional 3rd rounder on the guy, who had tremendous upside. He was the most talented back in the draft, and we took a flyer on him. It (obviously) didn't work, but it was a gamble that was well worth it considering the strength of the rest of that draft.

It's much like the Marcus Thomas pick (so far so good)... so far it looks like they've taken a 4th round pick (more or less the same position as Clarret) and turned it into something with much more value. You win some, you lose some. To be a SB caliber team you need some of those risks to pan out. I'd argue that NE took very much the same risk with Randy Moss and it has turned out well for them.


I didnt care either. Last pick in the third round, go for it. He pays off then its awesome, if not, well, you move on.

:Broncos:

[~Crash~]

you know what gets me is Sevin Young is damn fine young player and people are harping about a 3rd round bust 3 years ago LOL you pep's are on the crazy train!!!!!!!!!

[lex]

and just as many "knew" that he was going to the Cowboys with their 4th round pick. The Broncos didn't have a 4th rounder and couldn't trade that comp pick, so they had to pull the trigger to keep that from happening.

And, more importantly, they SIGNED him for 7th round money, NOT third round money. So to say they reached for him is really not accurate.

So what if Dallas was going to take him. Let them. That doesnt mean we should reach and take him. We already had one reclamation project on our hands in Ron Dayne (our 3rd string RB), who we had just signed previous to drafting Clarett. They wasted a pick.

[lex]

Funny that the cowboys were also going to pick Clarrett over barber. What a bunch of morons

At least they can say they werent going to reach as bad as we did.

[Beantown Bronco]

So what if Dallas was going to take him. Let them. That doesnt mean we should reach and take him. We already had one reclamation project on our hands in Ron Dayne (our 3rd string RB), who we had just signed previous to drafting Clarett. They wasted a pick.

same arguments could be made for the Moss and Marcus Thomas picks....so are you on record as saying you are against both of those as well?

It's pretty simple. If you are targetting a few specific guys, and none will make it to your next pick, you trade up to get the last one standing. I don't see a problem with that.

And you say they wasted a pick. But of the next 100 or so guys drafted, there were only about a handful that would not have been wasted picks (and how many of those guys would have signed for $0 signing bonus?), so it's not like they had a 99% chance of succeeding and somehow blew it. The deck was clearly stacked against them.

[BroncoSoja]

And this entire post is why some people should not have children.

We picked Clarrett, Denver thought he would be the better back, obviously that was wrong. Being an ass hat about a bad pick is retarded. For every Clarrett, you get a D Will or Marshall.

:Broncos:

And for ever D Will or Marshall we get a Willie Middlebrooks, Delta O'niel, Ashley Lelie so you point is exactly what with that statement?...Funny thing is you try and call me the kid and make less sense then I do.

Seems that you missed the point I was trying to make so I will dumb it down for you. You see even after seeing the type of players that Jacobs and Barber turned out to be Mr. Mupp er I mean Shan erm I mean Ted still thinks Denver made the right pick there.

Its one thing when you make the wrong mistake on a draft pick (Hell it happens) but its quite another when you say that you still made the right choice back then years after you realized the pick you made was a bust. By him saying "But I’m not sure that I “see” a single player picked between our selection of Clarett and our next selection of Chris Myers (current OC starter) in the 6th round that would have made much of a major difference at this point in our ‘07 season" It clearly shows that.

If you think Jacobs or Barber would not have made a "Major" difference on this team since then your about as retarded The Muppet is.

[lex]

same arguments could be made for the Moss and Marcus Thomas picks....so are you on record as saying you are against both of those as well?

Im not so sure you can make the same arguments.




And you say they wasted a pick. But of the next 100 or so guys drafted, there were only about a handful that would not have been wasted picks (and how many of those guys would have signed for $0 signing bonus?), so it's not like they had a 99% chance of succeeding and somehow blew it. The deck was clearly stacked against them.

No, the fact that Mo Clarett was probably the least prepared person to ever participate in the combine was a huge red flag...and that was after all the other stuff. It wasnt one thing with him. It was several things. Basically any other person picked after him took being a professional football player more seriously than he did. Besides that, Clarett only had one year in college and wore down during that year...and that one year was a distant memory when we drafted him (a reality we were confronted with when he ran a 4.84 40).

[Breck Bronc]

2005 really was a terrible draft. There's only a few players not named Barber or Jacobs picked between Clarett and Myers that would truly help Denver right now.

Jerome Mathis is a good returner and certainly better than Glen Martinez, but we drafted Darrent Williams in round 2 of 2005 to do that job.

Kerry Rhodes would look nice at safety for Denver, and this was a need going into the '05 draft with John Lynch already old and Kennoy Kennedy out the door. Now, two years later, we don't have much at safety aside from Hamza Abdullah.

Brady Poppinga would be an upgrade at SAM over Ian Gold. He was a good special teams player before becoming a starter, as well.

Michael Boley is having a breakout season for the Falcons and would be Denver's best linebacker.

While the '05 draft sucked, it's intellectually dishonest for Sundquist to say that there were no players picked between Clarett and Myers that could help the Broncos. Rhodes and Boley would be significant upgrades to our defense.

[sirhcyennek81]

And for ever D Will or Marshall we get a Willie Middlebrooks, Delta O'niel, Ashley Lelie so you point is exactly what with that statement?...Funny thing is you try and call me the kid and make less sense then I do.

Seems that you missed the point I was trying to make so I will dumb it down for you. You see even after seeing the type of players that Jacobs and Barber turned out to be Mr. Mupp er I mean Shan erm I mean Ted still thinks Denver made the right pick there.

Its one thing when you make the wrong mistake on a draft pick (Hell it happens) but its quite another when you say that you still made the right choice back then years after you realized the pick you made was a bust. By him saying "But I’m not sure that I “see” a single player picked between our selection of Clarett and our next selection of Chris Myers (current OC starter) in the 6th round that would have made much of a major difference at this point in our ‘07 season" It clearly shows that.

If you think Jacobs or Barber would not have made a "Major" difference on this team since then your about as retarded The Muppet is.


O Neal was a probowler. Lelie had a 1000 yard season. They were obviously productive, then fell apart. They are not even comparible to Clarett because they actually MADE the roster their rookie seasons. You also cannot say that jacobs or barber would have made a difference, because at this point for both they are part time players, neither will ever be called a feature back. Considering the way the Broncos find running backs, and our issue is not the run game, picking up either back would NOT help this team now.

:Broncos:

[Atwater His Ass]

I thought the Clarett pick was a reach, but I understand why they did it and didn't really have a problem with it.

I think the bigger problem here is that over the past couple of seasons, we seem more and more willing to take chances on players with either physical issues and/or character issues in both FA and the draft.