Tazer Nation

[Taco John]

Liberty is about Authority:

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[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Yikes!

Let me guess: The judge is that cop's cousin?

[Florida_Bronco]

Not a good situation to be in, but the officer handled it pretty well.

[Meck77]

At the tailgate this weekend some people in a Broncos bus honked in support of my sign that said "Honk to support property rights". The policeman who was a the corner doing traffic control pulled them over and gave them a $300 ticket for honking. He said it was excessive. There was no less than 30 witnesses to this. I approached the policeman later and told him the guy was honking to show support. He then threatened to have me arrested if I didn't go back to my property.

[Florida_Bronco]

At the tailgate this weekend some people in a Broncos bus honked in support of my sign that said "Honk to support property rights". The policeman who was a the corner doing traffic control pulled them over and gave them a $300 ticket for honking. He said it was excessive. There was no less than 30 witnesses to this. I approached the policeman later and told him the guy was honking to show support. He then threatened to have me arrested if I didn't go back to my property.

That's pretty low, and he should have let that one go.

Maybe he was a Chiefs/Raiders fan? ???

[baja]

Not a good situation to be in, but the officer handled it pretty well.

This may surprise some here but I agree that he needed to resort to the tazor because he was about to lose control of the situation but he would have never lost control if he was more experienced in taking charge of the situation.

[Florida_Bronco]

This may surprise some here but I agree that he needed to resort to the tazor because he was about to lose control of the situation but he would have never lost control if he was more experienced in taking charge of the situation.

Yeah, it wasn't perfect on the cop's part but overall I agree with how he handled it. The citzen refused to sign the citation, which is an arrestable offense obviously, then he would not comply with a lawful order and began walking back to his vehicle.

Using the taser on that man was definetly the right decision.

[alkemical]

can you have a "signed under duress" portion of the ticket?

[spdirty]

It was pretty funny watching that guy drop. Yeah, I'm pretty frickin anti-cop right now (acually, anti Park county cop) but funny is funny.

Dude shoulda followed instruction and respected his authoritay.

[cutthemdown]

Not a good situation to be in, but the officer handled it pretty well.

give me a break that officer was way too quick with a taser especially considering they have been known to kill people.

[cutthemdown]

I got into a heated argument with two officers once and they threatened to mace me. The smart thing to do is just shut up and get on the ground at that point. I agree that he was stupid for not just signing the ticket, but at same time that officer seemed to really be quick with the taser. Being a cop has got to be a pretty tough job to do well and I think that's why so many are crappy at it.

[cutthemdown]

can you have a "signed under duress" portion of the ticket?

signing the ticket is only a promise to appear, it's not an admission of guilt so there is no reason to not sign.

[cutthemdown]

the cop pulled over, let that guy pass, then pulled him over? I wonder what the guy did to get the ticket in the first place?

[Florida_Bronco]

give me a break that officer was way too quick with a taser especially considering they have been known to kill people.

What else do you expect him to do, with the man disobeying a lawful order and walking back to his vehicle? Also, the man saw the cop pull the taser and still continued to walk away.

And for the record, last I heard they had never been able to link any deaths directly to the use of a taser.

[Taco John]

I think the cop abused his authority. All in all, I think he's a bad cop. He should find a line of work he's good at.

I wouldn't sign that ticket. And if the cop wasn't arresting me, then I'm free to go back to my vehicle. I know my rights. This kid was 100% acting correct.

I hope he takes the cop for everything he's worth. I wish I was on the jury.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I don't know the laws of the state where this ugly scene took place, (I can't make out the license plate on the SUV) but is placing someone who refuses to sign a traffic citation under arrest and/or tasering him a standard legal procedure?

If not, then this cop's actions would probably meet the criterea for excessive use of force. If it is a standard legal procedure, then the procedure doesn't make sense insofar as the cop already has the driver's name, address, etc.

I would think a more prudent procedure would be to just say "fine - don't sign anything" and mail the citation to the driver - and if the guy ignores the summons or fails to appear in court then you issue a warrant for his arrest.

[Taco John]

And for the record, last I heard they had never been able to link any deaths directly to the use of a taser.

In Canada, they have had 17 taser related deaths in the last 3 years, and currently have 6 pending investigations into taser deaths. There have been several taser related deaths in the US, but typically, they get covered up or blamed on "unrelated" causes (ie. what a coincidence, we shot him with a taser and then he happened to die of a freak condition that causes a lack of oxygen to the brain)

I appreciate that police have a hard job, but they work for us. I don't know about anyone else, but as an employer, I'm tough, but I'm fair. As a public servant, I don't expect any less from them.

The cop in this video is a poor excuse for a police man. He was not threatened in any way. He had no cause whatsoever to pull out an instrument of self defense and use it as an aggressive weapon. If we lived in a dictatorial country, then I could understand them along with the permissiveness of our own citizens of his abhorrent actions. But we don't. We live in America, and even when it comes to speeding tickets, you are innocent until proven guilty.

This cop wasn't interested in justice here. He was interested in authority. He communicated like an authoritarian, not like a public servant. As a public servant, his motto is "to serve, and protect." He miserably failed. No citizen was served by his actions. No citizens protected.

[Meck77]

And for the record, last I heard they had never been able to link any deaths directly to the use of a taser.

Watch this clip. He was alive and well then hit with a taser. In the video one of the cops calls out a code red. If you watch related clips you'll see the man being carried out of the airport on stretcher dead. I'd say his death was taser related.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHKk5qQRzL4

[defenseman]

I have come to question the motives of some of our boys and girls in blue. Just don't trust them much anymore...dman

*tough job agreed, however, there are a few out there making it bad for the majority. Getting tired of some of the crap they dish out.

[Florida_Bronco]

I don't know the laws of the state where this ugly scene took place, (I can't make out the license plate on the SUV) but is placing someone who refuses to sign a traffic citation under arrest and/or tasering him a standard legal procedure?

If not, then this cop's actions would probably meet the criterea for excessive use of force. If it is a standard legal procedure, then the procedure doesn't make sense insofar as the cop already has the driver's name, address, etc.

Yes, it is an arrestable offense to refuse to sign a traffic citation. I don't know of any place in America where that is not the case.

I think the cop abused his authority. All in all, I think he's a bad cop. He should find a line of work he's good at.

I wouldn't sign that ticket. And if the cop wasn't arresting me, then I'm free to go back to my vehicle. I know my rights. This kid was 100% acting correct.

I hope he takes the cop for everything he's worth. I wish I was on the jury.

No offense TJ, but you need to brush up on your knowledge of the law. When you refuse to sign a traffic citation that is an arrestable offense. It is also against the law to disobey a lawful order.

In Canada, they have had 17 taser related deaths in the last 3 years, and currently have 6 pending investigations into taser deaths. There have been several taser related deaths in the US, but typically, they get covered up or blamed on "unrelated" causes (ie. what a coincidence, we shot him with a taser and then he happened to die of a freak condition that causes a lack of oxygen to the brain)

I'm not sure about those Canadian cases, but in America all deaths in which a taser was used can be attributed to pre-existing conditions. A normal, healthy person should be able to sustain being tasered without any lasting effects. Also for what it is worth, police officers are generally tasered themselves before they are allowed to carry the weapon. I say generally, as most agencies it is mandatory while for some it is voluntary.

The cop in this video is a poor excuse for a police man. He was not threatened in any way. He had no cause whatsoever to pull out an instrument of self defense and use it as an aggressive weapon. If we lived in a dictatorial country, then I could understand them along with the permissiveness of our own citizens of his abhorrent actions. But we don't. We live in America, and even when it comes to speeding tickets, you are innocent until proven guilty.

He was well within his right to use force in this situation, there is simply no gray area there. The man refused to sign the ticket and then disobeyed a lawful order while resisting arrest. That is more than enough justification to use the taser.

As far as the cop not being threatened, well, that's not so true. There is more than one story out there where something like this happened and instead the cop let the suspect get back to the car only to have them retrieve a weapon and shoot at the cop, sometimes killing them. Would that have happened here? Probably not, but the cop can't be sure of that and did what he needed to do to ensure maximum safety for himself.

This cop wasn't interested in justice here. He was interested in authority. He communicated like an authoritarian, not like a public servant. As a public servant, his motto is "to serve, and protect." He miserably failed. No citizen was served by his actions. No citizens protected.

I think your view of a public servant and "to serve and protect" is a little off. Police officers are authority, and serve and protect by enforcing the laws of their area. Cops are trained (and rightly so, in my opinion) to always have control of any situation. Now of course some take it too far and act like jerks, but at the same time they are not their working customer service where you need to be happy and polite with those you encounter, they are law enforcement officers.

In this situation I can agree that the cop could have had a better attitude, but it was nothing major and did not provide the driver any justification for his actions.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Yes, it is an arrestable offense to refuse to sign a traffic citation. I don't know of any place in America where that is not the case.

I find it hard to believe that this could be true for every state.

In fact, if I remember correctly, not all states require a signature on a traffic citation.

[Meck77]

I have come to question the motives of some of our boys and girls in blue. Just don't trust them much anymore...dman

*tough job agreed, however, there are a few out there making it bad for the majority. Getting tired of some of the crap they dish out.

The local sheriff in my county was charged with driving drunk with a weapon. However he wasn't arrested and refused to take any of the sobriety tests. It's a big story up here. But yeah I'm a little skeptical of police in general.

[Spider]

I think the cop abused his authority. All in all, I think he's a bad cop. He should find a line of work he's good at.

I wouldn't sign that ticket. And if the cop wasn't arresting me, then I'm free to go back to my vehicle. I know my rights. This kid was 100% acting correct.

I hope he takes the cop for everything he's worth. I wish I was on the jury.

you got that right , force should only be used if the situation is uncontrollable with a threat of violence , or suspect fleeing , neither was the case here , there was a 40 MPH sign , the guy was speeding....... Let me tell you how Colorado state trooper handle a situation , was caught going around the Limon co scales and speeding , I refused to sign the ticket , State trooper looked at me and said fine , We will sit here until you do
and we did ..... after 10 minutes I finally realized this trooper wasnt bluffing and I signed the ticket ........

[Spider]

I find it hard to believe that this could be true for every state.

In fact, if I remember correctly, not all states require a signature on a traffic citation.

They dont , but they can contain you and get bail money , depending on how big the fine is , by how fast you are going ...... Been there done that ;D

[Spider]

I would think a more prudent procedure would be to just say "fine - don't sign anything" and mail the citation to the driver - and if the guy ignores the summons or fails to appear in court then you issue a warrant for his arrest.

They do this in alot of states , in fact they have what they call speed cameras , no cops ,they get you on Camera speeding , mail you the ticket ........ Watch construction Zones ......

[Garcia Bronco]

You don't argue the law with an officer on the side of the road. You argue in court.

[Spider]

You don't argue the law with an officer on the side of the road. You argue in court.

thats right , and on the same hand , you dont need a lecture from the cop either , I told more then one that ....... Just tell em , save it , I will settle up with the Judge , you just do your job and write me a ticket .........But here lately I have been getting good cops .....

[kappys]

In Canada, they have had 17 taser related deaths in the last 3 years, and currently have 6 pending investigations into taser deaths. There have been several taser related deaths in the US, but typically, they get covered up or blamed on "unrelated" causes (ie. what a coincidence, we shot him with a taser and then he happened to die of a freak condition that causes a lack of oxygen to the brain)


The problem is that the full details are so often unknown. If you've been doing a bunch of cocaine, meth, or PCP and you die after getting tazed blaming the weapon is a joke. However I accept that it is likely not safe for everybody - but the whole purpose of the weapon is to provide the safest alternative technology to other methods of non-lethal force both for the perp and for the officer.

[yavoon]

I saw that, it was hilarious.

[yavoon]

I think the cop abused his authority. All in all, I think he's a bad cop. He should find a line of work he's good at.

I wouldn't sign that ticket. And if the cop wasn't arresting me, then I'm free to go back to my vehicle. I know my rights. This kid was 100% acting correct.

I hope he takes the cop for everything he's worth. I wish I was on the jury.

the cop was arresting him. isnt that what all that "I'm taking you to jail" and stuff was about?

and you have to sign tickets(or goto jail).

[yavoon]

in the old days I bet the cop because he's alone would have pulled his gun out for resisting arrest. and you wonder if that wouldn't have been more effective psychologically, the guy seems to totally dismiss having a tazer gun aimed right at him.

[Spider]

What else do you expect him to do, with the man disobeying a lawful order and walking back to his vehicle? Also, the man saw the cop pull the taser and still continued to walk away.

And for the record, last I heard they had never been able to link any deaths directly to the use of a taser.

Dude , that Highway Utah Patrolman screwed the pooch big time , From what I cna tell this took place 12 miles west of Vernal on highway 40 , where Utah is widening the road , cause of all the truck traffic .......
First off when the guy refused to sign , the Patrolman didnt tell him that signing wasnt an admition of guilt , then he didnt notify , that refusing to sign the ticket would result in his arrest , Then he used Force when none was called for .. then He lied his ass off to the other cop about what happened ....No the Officer was way over the top ......
nightstick= $250.00
Video Cam with Audio = $450.00
Having America watch your stupid ass Abuse your authority = Priceless .....

[Florida_Bronco]

Dude , that Highway Utah Patrolman screwed the pooch big time , From what I cna tell this took place 12 miles west of Vernal on highway 40 , where Utah is widening the road , cause of all the truck traffic .......
First off when the guy refused to sign , the Patrolman didnt tell him that signing wasnt an admition of guilt , then he didnt notify , that refusing to sign the ticket would result in his arrest , Then he used Force when none was called for .. then He lied his ass off to the other cop about what happened ....No the Officer was way over the top ......
nightstick= $250.00
Video Cam with Audio = $450.00
Having America watch your stupid ass Abuse your authority = Priceless .....

I don't know what the law is out in Utah, but I'm reasonably certain that an officer does not have to advise you that not signing the ticket will lead to arrest. It's the law, and it's the citzen responsibility to know the law, it's not like the miranda rights. And I don't get how you can say no use of force was called for. The man was walking away after being told he was under arrest. That is disobeying a lawful order (which is a crime) as well as resisting arrest. What exactly do you think he should have done Spider?

And where did he "lie his ass off" to the other cop? I just re-watched it and didn't catch any lies.

[cutthemdown]

It's funny how the good ole boys club works even over the internet.

I think we should pass a law that makes police have random drug testing throughout their careers. The problem is that half of them are jacked up on roids and out of control. How do I know this? I know a guy who illegaly sells steriods and over half his customers are cops.

[Florida_Bronco]

It's funny how the good ole boys club works even over the internet. Ok mouth, why don't you show where he violated this man's rights and/or did anything illegal.

I think we should pass a law that makes police have random drug testing throughout their careers. The problem is that half of them are jacked up on roids and out of control. How do I know this? I know a guy who illegaly sells steriods and over half his customers are cops.

I don't even know where to start with this post. First, alot of agencies do random drug testing and almost always after any kinda of incident involving a shooting or serious injury. Second, this "half of them are jacked up on roids" is complete bull**** and you know it. Then again, you've shown your true colors here pretty well over the last year, so a comment like that isn't unexpected from you.

[cutthemdown]

Ok mouth, why don't you show where he violated this man's rights and/or did anything illegal.



I don't even know where to start with this post. First, alot of agencies do random drug testing and almost always after any kinda of incident involving a shooting or serious injury. Second, this "half of them are jacked up on roids" is complete bull**** and you know it. Then again, you've shown your true colors here pretty well over the last year, so a comment like that isn't unexpected from you.

My true colors came from me saying in the Darrent Williams shooting before we knew anything that it will turn out to be a bunch of gang banging N***** that did it. I apologized for using that word but at the same time I was very upset that day. I also said that if athletes want to roll around like pimps garnering attention then they are targets for people like gamgmembers who roll around acting like thugs in the same clubs. I also apologized for offending anyone. Go ahead and try to pull that out to defend out of control cops. The fact you did proves you are losing this argument.

What about in the video how the cop says in a flippant manner....."oh he took a ride with my taser!!! That's is pretty unprofessional in my opinion.

And testing after a incident for drugs is not enough. Police officers should have to give a drug test randomly without notice many times a yr. We have to make sure they are clean so they can enforce the law and carry deadly weapons.

Some depts do test I agree. But in NYPD they wont say how many police test positive, or how many get a second chance. Pretty weird they say they test but they don't release the data. Sounds to me like more good ole boys club.

To anyone else I have tried really hard to not stoke the flames of race since the Darrent Williams thing. Many posters on here have messaged me and told me that I have done much better and they are thankful for the fact I apologized for offending anyone.

Once again I'm not a racist and I apologize once again for saying that Darrent Williams killers would turn out to be 2 bit N***** gangbangers. I was right but still I have realized how you say things can hurt people that didn't deserve it and once again I apologize for that.

[cutthemdown]

Florida Your true colors are pretty evident. I bet you would have said the women needed to be tasered as well huh? Don't lie, had he tasered her after she exited to check on her man you wouldn't have had a problem with it. You would have said the cop felt she was coming up behind him etc etc.

[cutthemdown]

http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2006/07/30/75_officers_failed_city_drug_tests/


read that story. The funny thing is that from the line, many failed the second test and got fired, you can make out that it isn't zero tolerance like it would be for me on my job. Also Florida I haven't been able to find one dept that says it tests for steroids. And like I said I know a guy who sells hgh and roids, he's a freak when it comes to trying to get big, he's a bouncer at a bar my band plays at, and he told me straight out that he knows of police that love HGH. I can so for sure that no depts in the whole USA are testing for that. Only the World Doping Agency does. I see many many police who look like the roid up because their arms just don't fit their bodies.

I would venture to say that HGH on steriods since they arent tested for by police agencies, and because police feel the need to be strong as the criminals, that it's a problem. To think different IMO would be Niave.

Can you find me proof that any dept's test for Roids? The NYPD release on it only said they test for legal and illegal narcotics. I don't think Steriods falls into that cartegory.

The fact Boston in the linked story caught a bunch of dudes doing coke and pot but not one for Roids makes me feel they ain't testing for them either.

[Florida_Bronco]

My true colors came from me saying in the Darrent Williams shooting before we knew anything that it will turn out to be a bunch of gang banging N***** that did it. I apologized for using that word but at the same time I was very upset that day. I also said that if athletes want to roll around like pimps garnering attention then they are targets for people like gamgmembers who roll around acting like thugs in the same clubs. I also apologized for offending anyone. Go ahead and try to pull that out to defend out of control cops. The fact you did proves you are losing this argument. I had actually forgot about that little episode, and was referring to you being a negative little antagonist punk since I can remember. Oh, and don't go and get all confident about me losing this argument, as the law is in favor of my argument as well as the cops actions.

What about in the video how the cop says in a flippant manner....."oh he took a ride with my taser!!! That's is pretty unprofessional in my opinion. That's the best you can do? ??? I see nothing wrong with that, but either way it definetly is not a violation of any laws or police procedures.

And testing after a incident for drugs is not enough. Police officers should have to give a drug test randomly without notice many times a yr. We have to make sure they are clean so they can enforce the law and carry deadly weapons. That's a nice idea and all, but where do you propose they get the funding for that? Drug testing isn't cheap, and most departments are facing budget cuts as it is. Bet the public would get real pissed about increased citations/taxes right?

To anyone else I have tried really hard to not stoke the flames of race since the Darrent Williams thing. Many posters on here have messaged me and told me that I have done much better and they are thankful for the fact I apologized for offending anyone.

Once again I'm not a racist and I apologize once again for saying that Darrent Williams killers would turn out to be 2 bit N***** gangbangers. I was right but still I have realized how you say things can hurt people that didn't deserve it and once again I apologize for that.

I wasn't throwing that incident back in your face, but since we are on the subject I'll accept that apology, as I know it was made in the heat of the moment.

[Florida_Bronco]

Florida Your true colors are pretty evident. I bet you would have said the women needed to be tasered as well huh? Don't lie, had he tasered her after she exited to check on her man you wouldn't have had a problem with it. You would have said the cop felt she was coming up behind him etc etc.

No need to taser her as she complied with his commands. Had she disobeyed them and continued to exit the vehicle or approach him, then yes she should have been tasered and/or restrained.

[baja]

Florida Your true colors are pretty evident. I bet you would have said the women needed to be tasered as well huh? Don't lie, had he tasered her after she exited to check on her man you wouldn't have had a problem with it. You would have said the cop felt she was coming up behind him etc etc.

I would have tasered the woman too than I would have had them strip and get in the doggie position and than tasered them again filmed it and sold it on ebay ;D

[alkemical]

Ok mouth, why don't you show where he violated this man's rights and/or did anything illegal.



I don't even know where to start with this post. First, alot of agencies do random drug testing and almost always after any kinda of incident involving a shooting or serious injury. Second, this "half of them are jacked up on roids" is complete bull**** and you know it. Then again, you've shown your true colors here pretty well over the last year, so a comment like that isn't unexpected from you.

Unfortunately i also know of several cops who are using steroids

[cutthemdown]

Unfortunately i also know of several cops who are using steroids

It's a real problem IMO. It's something that needs to be looked at because roids cause such violent and erratic behavoir. I could really care less if a cop wants to spark a joint on his vacation days, but roids make them mean and angry.

[Spider]

I don't know what the law is out in Utah, but I'm reasonably certain that an officer does not have to advise you that not signing the ticket will lead to arrest. It's the law, and it's the citzen responsibility to know the law, it's not like the miranda rights. And I don't get how you can say no use of force was called for. The man was walking away after being told he was under arrest. That is disobeying a lawful order (which is a crime) as well as resisting arrest. What exactly do you think he should have done Spider?

And where did he "lie his ass off" to the other cop? I just re-watched it and didn't catch any lies.

yes he does , he has to defuse the situation , take steps , to calm the guy down , if that doesnt work , then use force .......
he was walking back to his vehicle , I didnt see any signs of him trying to get away .....
as for what Iwould have done , I pulled him over , walked up got his info , came back to write him a ticket , he refused , would have said ........ "no need to escalate this any further then what it is , right now it is just a speeding ticket , signing this ticket isnt an admition of guilt , it is promising you will go to court or pay the ticket , instead of me arresting you and making you post bail ......Much easier to sign the ticket sir .......
then he told the other cop that he gave the person he would tazer him ..... He didnt .....
A cop has to control the situation , and keep things calm before use of force , this guy wasnt threatening , he wasnt an out of control loon , he was just a pissed off motorist ,make him sit there for 5 minutes , he will sign .

[Spider]

Florida Bronco , if you want to see how it is done .Set up a ride along with a New Mexico trooper , See how a New Mexico trooper handles that situation ......Or a Kansas state trooper ... firm but fair .....Mega respect for Kansas troopers

[Florida_Bronco]

yes he does , he has to defuse the situation , take steps , to calm the guy down , if that doesnt work , then use force .......
he was walking back to his vehicle , I didnt see any signs of him trying to get away .....
as for what Iwould have done , I pulled him over , walked up got his info , came back to write him a ticket , he refused , would have said ........ "no need to escalate this any further then what it is , right now it is just a speeding ticket , signing this ticket isnt an admition of guilt , it is promising you will go to court or pay the ticket , instead of me arresting you and making you post bail ......Much easier to sign the ticket sir .......
then he told the other cop that he gave the person he would tazer him ..... He didnt .....
A cop has to control the situation , and keep things calm before use of force , this guy wasnt threatening , he wasnt an out of control loon , he was just a pissed off motorist ,make him sit there for 5 minutes , he will sign .

The problem with this is, you're writing from the point of view of the motorist not the cop. In a perfect world, things could be done the way you described, but a cop simply can't take that chance. I do agree he could have made more of an effort to have the man sign the ticket, but the guy was already acting like a fool and the cop was probably sick of dealing with him then.

Beyond that, once the man disobeyed his commands, the cop has to assume the man may be dangerous and gain control of the situation using force if needed.

[Spider]

The problem with this is, you're writing from the point of view of the motorist not the cop. In a perfect world, things could be done the way you described, but a cop simply can't take that chance. I do agree he could have made more of an effort to have the man sign the ticket, but the guy was already acting like a fool and the cop was probably sick of dealing with him then.

Beyond that, once the man disobeyed his commands, the cop has to assume the man may be dangerous and gain control of the situation using force if needed.

Bullshít ......dont tell me whats what son , I have had interactions with Cops all of the United States ,Boarder patrol at check points all over texas , New Mexico , ariz and Cali , and including some Federalies in Mexico , and Mounties in Canada , ...... Face it this Utah trooper screwed the pooch ......

[baja]

Bullshít ......dont tell me whats what son , I have had interactions with Cops all of the United States ,Boarder patrol at check points all over texas , New Mexico , ariz and Cali , and including some Federalies in Mexico , and Mounties in Canada , ......<b> Face it this Utah trooper screwed the pooch ......</b>

Do you have film of that?

[Spider]

</b>

Do you have film of that?

LOL .........

[Spider]

Rewatch the video , first thing **** head trooper goes for his his tazer ..... No warning nothing ....... Guy even asked , what in the heck is wrong with you , cop tazers ......... This dude needs to be fired , fast and hard ........ Maybe even criminal charges ...........

[Florida_Bronco]

Rewatch the video , first thing **** head trooper goes for his his tazer ..... No warning nothing ....... Guy even asked , what in the heck is wrong with you , cop tazers ......... This dude needs to be fired , fast and hard ........ Maybe even criminal charges ...........

Spider...the guy was resisting arrest. The cop did not use the taser until he began walking away. The man saw the cop draw his taser and continued to disobey his commands.

I don't know how more clear I can make it. You may not like it, but the cop acted well within the realm of the law.

[Taco John]

Probe into Utah trooper’s conduct sped up after video posted on YouTube (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21921393/)

Cop: Lots of feedback over video
The 10-minute video landed on YouTube after it was released to Massey under a public records request.

“We definitely have received a lot of feedback on it, calls and e-mail,” Roden said.

Signing a speeding ticket is not an admission of guilt, Roden said. He described it as a promise that a motorist “will take care of the citation.”

Under patrol policy, troopers can use a Taser if someone is a threat to themselves or others and other means of control are unreasonable, Roden said. Massey has filed a complaint, Roden said. He didn’t know the status of the speeding ticket

[Taco John]

Awesome. Get this guy sitting at a desk for a few years pushing papers.

[Spider]

Spider...the guy was resisting arrest. The cop did not use the taser until he began walking away. The man saw the cop draw his taser and continued to disobey his commands.

I don't know how more clear I can make it. You may not like it, but the cop acted well within the realm of the law.

I made another thread just for you , with videos were the cops used force and it was justified ...... go watch it ...... you dont have an argument here ..........

[cutthemdown]

</b>

Do you have film of that?

It was on youtube but Peta had it removed. They said the pooch never consented.

[Florida_Bronco]

I made another thread just for you , with videos were the cops used force and it was justified ...... go watch it ...... you dont have an argument here ..........

I think it's you that needs a lesson in what justifable use of force is. You have your opinion, and then there is the law...unfortunately they don't match up.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I think it's you that needs a lesson in what justifable use of force is.

Not from someone who lives in Florida, that's for sure.

[Spider]

I think it's you that needs a lesson in what justifable use of force is. You have your opinion, and then there is the law...unfortunately they don't match up.

there you go thinking again , Now I want you to think this through , I drive a truck , I go all 48 states , dont you think I should have a clue about the laws of a state I drive through ........
Look kiddo you are ignoring the thread I made for you , it blows your entire argument out of the water , now do your self a favor and pull your head out of your ass .........****ing kids nowdays regular ****ing know it alls

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

A lesson in the "justifiable use of force" from someone who lives in Florida is like a lesson in diplomacy from Genghis Kahn.

[Spider]

Look dumbass , you can get offended all you want , you are wrong here , for example , I can get a log book fine in FLA ..$350.00 , Same fine in California =$1,500 ....a bad driver tire will cost me =$50 in Wyoming ,$132.00 in Colorado , but 1 thing is consistent , they have to explain to me about the ticket and what signing the ticket means ..Even on non moving violations , now dont get pissed at me , you made the choice to make an ass out of yourself here like some kind of Cop groupie ...........

[cutthemdown]

Speaking of FLA cops........Wasn't an Orlando cop that got prosecuted for tasering a man who was at the time handcuffed to a bed. The man had eaten cocaine and would not give a urine sample to nurse. The cop then tasered the guy because he would not allow a cathator up his weanie to extract the urine.

hopefully even the heavy handed, beat you with a nightstick FLABRONCO feels that one was overboard.

[cutthemdown]

Or what about the cop that tasered a guy while he was holding a baby. I remember that story from awhle back. The taser should only be used like you would use a gun. Until the situation has gotten life and death I don't think it should be used.

[baja]

Or what about the cop that tasered a guy while he was holding a baby. I remember that story from awhle back. The taser should only be used like you would use a gun. Until the situation has gotten life and death I don't think it should be used.

I remember that one they started calling the kid Curly after that.

[cutthemdown]

I remember that one they started calling the kid Curly after that.

turns out now the kid is his own night light.

[Spider]

turns out now the kid is his own night light.

that could come in handy though.......;D
off topic but , when my Nephew was really young 4 or 5 I think , I was at My sisters house and she sent him to bed , about a half hour later I opened his bedroom door and asked Billy are you ok ? he said yes why ? I said oh no reason , I thought I heard something moving in your closet , he went bat **** ....My sister and her Husband was all pissed off ..........

[baja]

that could come in handy though.......;D
off topic but , when my Nephew was really young 4 or 5 I think , I was at My sisters house and she sent him to bed , about a half hour later I opened his bedroom door and asked Billy are you ok ? he said yes why ? I said oh no reason , I thought I heard something moving in your closet , he went bat **** ....My sister and her Husband was all pissed off ..........

That struck me really funny

[Florida_Bronco]

there you go thinking again , Now I want you to think this through , I drive a truck , I go all 48 states , dont you think I should have a clue about the laws of a state I drive through ........
Look kiddo you are ignoring the thread I made for you , it blows your entire argument out of the water , now do your self a favor and pull your head out of your ass .........****ing kids nowdays regular ****ing know it alls

Look dumbass , you can get offended all you want , you are wrong here , for example , I can get a log book fine in FLA ..$350.00 , Same fine in California =$1,500 ....a bad driver tire will cost me =$50 in Wyoming ,$132.00 in Colorado , but 1 thing is consistent , they have to explain to me about the ticket and what signing the ticket means ..Even on non moving violations , now dont get pissed at me , you made the choice to make an ass out of yourself here like some kind of Cop groupie ...........

I've looked all through Utah state law (http://www.le.state.ut.us/~code/code.htm) and found no mention of whether or not an officer must inform you that not signing a ticket is an arrestable offense. My guess is it falls into "ignorance of the law" category. Now if you want to look through there and track that down, be my guest. Now, of course you must have explained to you what your charges are (ie...speeding), but the driver refused to sign the ticket before the cop could explain his options.

In fact, this editorial here from the Salt Lake Tribune (http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/ci_7544654) (which unfortunately does not list it's sources) seems to support what I said in post #20 (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=1793186&postcount=20): The cop was acting within the realm of the law, even though he could have handled it better. Much like a cop can give you a ticket for any speed over the limit, although it's generally accepted that you get that 5mph grace.

What I did learn from that editoral, is that it seems not signing a ticket is not a mandatory arrest. I believed it was sign the ticket or go to jail, however it appears that in Utah at least, that is not the case.

So, you want to keep at this Spider?

P.S: Just for your educational purposes and future reference, Here is a link (http://www.cleet.state.ok.us/PDF%20Files/Use%20of%20Force%20Guide%20January%202003%20Corel% 20Version.pdf) to an adobe file which shows the use of force spectrum. Now this is just a general one and all of them are a little different, but it's more or less the same one given out at the police academy here.

[cutthemdown]

Police are too heavy handed and corrupt regardless of wether this incident was justified. We really need to clean up the police because they good ole boys club keeps them from doing it themselves.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I've looked all through Utah state law (http://www.le.state.ut.us/~code/code.htm) and found no mention of whether or not an officer must inform you that not signing a ticket is an arrestable offense.

It wouldn't surprise me one bit if there was no such law on the books. Utah is governed by conservative idiots. The police in Utah can search people's vehicles without warrants and without probable cause.

[Spider]

I've looked all through Utah state law (http://www.le.state.ut.us/~code/code.htm) and found no mention of whether or not an officer must inform you that not signing a ticket is an arrestable offense. My guess is it falls into "ignorance of the law" category. Now if you want to look through there and track that down, be my guest. Now, of course you must have explained to you what your charges are (ie...speeding), but the driver refused to sign the ticket before the cop could explain his options.

In fact, this editorial here from the Salt Lake Tribune (http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/ci_7544654) (which unfortunately does not list it's sources) seems to support what I said in post #20 (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=1793186&postcount=20): The cop was acting within the realm of the law, even though he could have handled it better. Much like a cop can give you a ticket for any speed over the limit, although it's generally accepted that you get that 5mph grace.

What I did learn from that editoral, is that it seems not signing a ticket is not a mandatory arrest. I believed it was sign the ticket or go to jail, however it appears that in Utah at least, that is not the case.

So, you want to keep at this Spider?

P.S: Just for your educational purposes and future reference, Here is a link (http://www.cleet.state.ok.us/PDF%20Files/Use%20of%20Force%20Guide%20January%202003%20Corel% 20Version.pdf) to an adobe file which shows the use of force spectrum. Now this is just a general one and all of them are a little different, but it's more or less the same one given out at the police academy here.

You can babble on all night long , the cop was heavy handed , the Cop wanted the hassle .... and I have yet ot meet a cop anywhere that doesnt explain what signing the ticket means ..........

[Spider]

It wouldn't surprise me one bit if there was no such law on the books. Utah is governed by conservative idiots. The police in Utah can search people's vehicles without warrants and without probable cause.

No matter what state I am in , I can be pulled over and searched for no reason at all , all they have to say is DOT inspection

[Northman]

Meh. Did it need to escalate to that. Probably not. But again, the driver could have argued his point in court if he really felt it necessary. Again, when a officer asks you to do something than you do it. When you get pulled over for a traffic violation that is NOT the time to start bitching or creating a ruckus even if your right. Depending on what the rules are when signing traffic tickets if it wasnt required than i would have let the kid go and let the courts handle it. The sign for 40 mph was in the camera view so the kid claiming there wasnt one was false. But if it is a arrestable offense when not signing a ticket than the guy is guilty. I just think both participants handled it totally wrong.

[Florida_Bronco]

You can babble on all night long , the cop was heavy handed , the Cop wanted the hassle .... and I have yet ot meet a cop anywhere that doesnt explain what signing the ticket means ..........

So basically what you are saying is that you know the cop was acting within the realm of law, you just don't like it and have nothing substantial to back your opinion? And that you'd rather the cop risk his life with a physical confrontation than put him down quick and easy?

Gotcha.

[Florida_Bronco]

Meh. Did it need to escalate to that. Probably not. But again, the driver could have argued his point in court if he really felt it necessary. Again, when a officer asks you to do something than you do it. When you get pulled over for a traffic violation that is NOT the time to start b****ing or creating a ruckus even if your right. Depending on what the rules are when signing traffic tickets if it wasnt required than i would have let the kid go and let the courts handle it. The sign for 40 mph was in the camera view so the kid claiming there wasnt one was false. But if it is a arrestable offense when not signing a ticket than the guy is guilty. I just think both participants handled it totally wrong.

Pretty level headed post. Sounds like you can look at it from both person's point of view. ^5

[kappys]

Pretty level headed post. Sounds like you can look at it from both person's point of view. ^5

Uh Oh. Get this guy out of here he could ruin the whole vibe of the forum.

[Spider]

So basically what you are saying is that you know the cop was acting within the realm of law, you just don't like it and have nothing substantial to back your opinion? And that you'd rather the cop risk his life with a physical confrontation than put him down quick and easy?

Gotcha.

If you say`so ..........I pointed out the differences , it isnt my fault you dont grasp it .......

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

And that you'd rather the cop risk his life with a physical confrontation than put him down quick and easy?

What phyisical confrontation?

The subject in TJ's video wasn't becomming physical - he wasn't even being verbally abusive.

You are essentially arguing for something like Bush's pre-emptive war doctrine on a smaller scale.

[Spider]

What phyisical confrontation?

The subject in TJ's video wasn't becomming physical - he wasn't even being verbally abusive.

You are essentially arguing for something like Bush's pre-emptive war doctrine on a smaller scale.

come on you know how it works with Drama queens , if and could be , might be , are all the reasons you need to wig out .......that guy in utah could have an armed crazy mass murderer , kerry voter , disguised as a family man to fool the cop .......... welcome to Drama queen land ;D

[Florida_Bronco]

What phyisical confrontation?

The subject in TJ's video wasn't becomming physical - he wasn't even being verbally abusive.

You are essentially arguing for something like Bush's pre-emptive war doctrine on a smaller scale.

Well, let me draw it out for you in crayon LABF. At the time the suspect decided to resist arrest, basically one of two things was going to happen. A) there was going to be a physical confrontation to perform the arrest or B) the cop could taser him and end it in an instant, which is what happened.

I challenge you to come up with a logical reason for choosing a physical confrontation over using the taser.

[gunns]

The local sheriff in my county was charged with driving drunk with a weapon. However he wasn't arrested and refused to take any of the sobriety tests. It's a big story up here. But yeah I'm a little skeptical of police in general.

Me too. We had a situation here in SLC where a cop shot a thief. The cop reported that while trying to arrest the thief, the thief tried to "attack" him with his car, and he shot him in self defense. Unfortunately for the cop the whole thing was caught on camera and showed the thief in no way moved his car and was in complete compliance with the officer. But the attorney general declined to prosecute as he didn't feel they could win it as the public would look at the "good" cop and the "bad" thief. We've had several incidents here.

My son, who was 16 at the time, was tripped by a cop and strangled after he was in handcuffs. His crime? Truancy. His friend testified about everything and the responding sergeant testified he saw the hand marks on his neck. They found there was no evidence that the officer did that only that he made derogatory statements to my son. That's all he'd admit to. Neither of these have to do with a hard job, but power hungry officers that upsurp their authority and it's very prevelant.

[Garcia Bronco]

I can't believe this thread is still going on....the guy was a dumbass and he got the dumbass treatment. He sped, he was confrontational, he was non-compliant, he repeatedly broke the law, and was irrational. You can't act like that on the side of a road with an officer. You'll get the treatment every time. Argue your case in court and you'll never ever have this problem. this is just like the dumbass that got himself tasered at FU.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Well, let me draw it out for you in crayon LABF. At the time the suspect decided to resist arrest, basically one of two things was going to happen. A) there was going to be a physical confrontation to perform the arrest or B) the cop could taser him and end it in an instant, which is what happened.

I challenge you to come up with a logical reason for choosing a physical confrontation over using the taser.

First of all, the subject wasn't "resisting arrest" - he merely refused to sign a traffic citation.

Second, how do you know there was going to be a physical confrontation? Certainly no such confrontation was provoked by the suspect's actions. It sounds like you are assuming that there had to be a physical confrontation and that no other outcome was possible. The facts do not support your argument insofar as the subject was unarmed and was not behaving in a physically (or even verbally) threatening manner.

Once again, you are advocating a doctrine of pre-emptive aggression.

[Florida_Bronco]

First of all, the subject wasn't "resisting arrest" - he merely refused to sign a traffic citation.

Second, how do you know there was going to be a physical confrontation? Certainly no such confrontation was provoked by the suspect's actions. It sounds like you are assuming that there had to be a physical confrontation and that no other outcome was possible. The facts do not support your argument insofar as the subject was unarmed and was not behaving in a physically (or even verbally) threatening manner.

Once again, you are advocating a doctrine of pre-emptive aggression.

Please tell me you are trying to be funny or something.

LABF, I'd expect a guy like you to know that walking away from an arrest is resisting arrest.

I'm really at a loss for words here LABF. Either you are not nearly as smart as I gave you credit for or you are playing stupid.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Please tell me you are trying to be funny or something.

LABF, I'd expect a guy like you to know that walking away from an arrest is resisting arrest.

I'm really at a loss for words here LABF. Either you are not nearly as smart as I gave you credit for or you are playing stupid.

No matter how you describe the subject's behavior, the fact remains that nothing the subject was doing justified the degree of force used by the cop.

This is the point you keep trying to dodge.

[Garcia Bronco]

No matter how you describe the subject's behavior, the fact remains that nothing the subject was doing justified the degree of force used by the cop.

This is the point you keep trying to dodge.


What's the alternative ....beat him with a night stick? Shoot him? The tazer was justified IMO.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

What's the alternative ....beat him with a night stick? Shoot him? The tazer was justified IMO.

The best alternative, IMO, is to mail him the damn ticket. If he fails to appear in court, then you issue an arrest warrant. There is no good reason why anyone - either police officers or civilians - should have to get hurt in a routine traffic stop.

If you can't do any of the above, then you physically subdue him, (no beatings or tasering required) cuff him, and stuff him.

[Garcia Bronco]

The best alternative, IMO, is to mail him the damn ticket. If he fails to appear in court, then you issue an arrest warrant. There is no good reason why anyone - either police officers or civilians - should have to get hurt in a routine traffic stop.

If you can't do any of the above, then you physically subdue him, (no beatings or tasering required) cuff him, and stuff him.

Except he broke the law like 4-5 times.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Except he broke the law like 4-5 times.

???

[Florida_Bronco]

If you can't do any of the above, then you physically subdue him, (no beatings or tasering required) cuff him, and stuff him.

Great idea LABF. Let's try to physically subdue a man on the side of a highway with cars traveling at a high rate of speed in extremely close proximity.

That's a much better idea than hitting the suspect with a taser and ending the ordeal in seconds.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Great idea LABF. Let's try to physically subdue a man on the side of a highway with cars traveling at a high rate of speed in extremely close proximity.

That's a much better idea than hitting the suspect with a taser and ending the ordeal in seconds.

Do you honestly think using a taser gun is any safer under these same conditions?

[Garcia Bronco]

???

speeding, resisting arrest, failure to obey a lawful order, failure to sign his citation.

[Florida_Bronco]

Do you honestly think using a taser gun is any safer under these same conditions?

Of course! The man got tasered and instantly fell to the ground where he could be handcuffed.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Of course! The man got tasered and instantly fell to the ground where he could be handcuffed.

The cop was lucky on that account. (Look at the video on Spider's thread and see how many times the cop had to hit that suspect before he was completely down.)

The outcome could have easily been different since, as you pointed out, the scene was "the side of a highway with cars traveling at a high rate of speed in extremely close proximity."

[alkemical]

I wonder if i could find a way to make some nano-fabric based clothes that would be taser resistant......

[alkemical]

then of course you'd just be shot

[gunns]

It came out today after being reviewed by the Utah Highway Patrol that the officer was within the law. BUT they were disappointed in the officer as they didn't feel he communicated effectively with the "criminal" and his actions may have perpetrated what happened. The Public Safety Commission is very upset with the officers actions and the light it has put on Utah. They feel that while his actions were within the law, they were definitely excessive and put Utah in a bad light. Duh, ya think. Of course there are these quick triggers all over the US.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

It came out today after being reviewed by the Utah Highway Patrol that the officer was within the law. BUT they were disappointed in the officer as they didn't feel he communicated effectively with the "criminal" and his actions may have perpetrated what happened. The Public Safety Commission is very upset with the officers actions and the light it has put on Utah. They feel that while his actions were within the law, they were definitely excessive and put Utah in a bad light. Duh, ya think. Of course there are these quick triggers all over the US.

Thank you! :thumbsup:

Did you make a note of this, Florida Bronco?

[Florida_Bronco]

Thank you! :thumbsup:

Did you make a note of this, Florida Bronco?

You mean, take notes of something I already mentioned 7 days ago? Like this?

I do agree he could have made more of an effort to have the man sign the ticket

...and this?

The cop was acting within the realm of the law, even though he could have handled it better.

Seems to me their findings were pretty much in line with my arguments throughout this discussion...wouldn't you agree?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Seems to me their findings were pretty much in line with my arguments throughout this discussion...wouldn't you agree?

"Throughout" this discussion?

Hardly.

The majority of your arguments were attempts to justify the cop's actions.

At one point you even indicated that the fact that the cop was acting within the limits of the law rendered every other concern moot.

[Florida_Bronco]

"Throughout" this discussion?

Hardly.

The majority of your arguments were attempts to justify the cop's actions.

At one point you even indicated that the fact that the cop was acting within the limits of the law rendered every other concern moot.

You got it right there in black and white quotes buddy. Acting within the realm of the law but could have handled it better. Mentioned several times throughout this thread.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

You got it right there in black and white quotes buddy. Acting within the realm of the law but could have handled it better. Mentioned several times throughout this thread.

I can also give you some black and white quotes where you indicated that because the cop was acting within the limits of the law all other arguments were moot.

[Florida_Bronco]

I can also give you some black and white quotes where you indicated that because the cop was acting within the limits of the law all other arguments were moot.

They are moot...in the sense that what he did was legal.

So let's see those quotes.

[gunns]

Well as I said, it was proven within the law, but authorities were not happy with the Highway Patrolman. Excessive force?

Speeder Tasered by trooper on YouTube video gets $40,000 from state
By Jason Bergreen
The Salt Lake Tribune
Article Last Updated: 03/11/2008 09:27:16 AM MDT



The Utah Attorney General's Office announced the settlement between Jared Massey and UHP trooper Jon Gardner on Monday.
"We think this is a legally defensible case because Trooper Gardner acted reasonably to avert a volatile and potentially dangerous confrontation on the side of a busy highway," said Assistant Attorney General Scott Cheney, who represented Gardner. "We recognize, however, that this is a close case."
The settlement comes on the heels of a decision by Tooele County prosecutors earlier this month that determined Gardner's actions were not criminal. An internal UHP investigation also cleared the trooper.
Video of the trooper zapping Massey, taken by the trooper's dashboard camera, came to prominence after Massey posted it on the Internet site YouTube. Since it was posted last year, it has been viewed more than 1.7 million times.
Massey's attorney, Bob Sykes, said Monday the offer to settle the case was not the state's first and that his client decided to take it.
Massey filed a lawsuit against Gardner in January alleging the trooper violated his civil rights when he zapped him during a traffic stop Sept. 14, 2007, on Highway 40 in Uintah County. He was stopped for driving 61 mph in a 40 mph zone.
During the stop, Massey argued with Gardner about his speed and then refused to sign the citation. Massey then got out of his car and followed Gardner to his police car where he was asked to place his hands behind his back. When Massey refused, Gardner shocked him.
The suit said Massey fell screaming in pain after being shocked while Gardner taunted him by saying, "Hurts, doesn't it?" Massey struck his head against the pavement and was zapped a second time because he was unable to immediately obey an order to turn over on his stomach, according to the suit.
"We thought the amount of force used was outrageous," Sykes said Monday.
The settlement amount includes attorneys' fees. The Attorney General's Office says Massey has agreed to dismiss his lawsuit, all claims against Gardner and all potential claims against UHP, the Utah Department of Public Safety and the state.

[Florida_Bronco]

Well as I said, it was proven within the law, but authorities were not happy with the Highway Patrolman. Excessive force?

Speeder Tasered by trooper on YouTube video gets $40,000 from state
By Jason Bergreen
The Salt Lake Tribune
Article Last Updated: 03/11/2008 09:27:16 AM MDT



The Utah Attorney General's Office announced the settlement between Jared Massey and UHP trooper Jon Gardner on Monday.
"We think this is a legally defensible case because Trooper Gardner acted reasonably to avert a volatile and potentially dangerous confrontation on the side of a busy highway," said Assistant Attorney General Scott Cheney, who represented Gardner. "We recognize, however, that this is a close case."
The settlement comes on the heels of a decision by Tooele County prosecutors earlier this month that determined Gardner's actions were not criminal. An internal UHP investigation also cleared the trooper.
Video of the trooper zapping Massey, taken by the trooper's dashboard camera, came to prominence after Massey posted it on the Internet site YouTube. Since it was posted last year, it has been viewed more than 1.7 million times.
Massey's attorney, Bob Sykes, said Monday the offer to settle the case was not the state's first and that his client decided to take it.
Massey filed a lawsuit against Gardner in January alleging the trooper violated his civil rights when he zapped him during a traffic stop Sept. 14, 2007, on Highway 40 in Uintah County. He was stopped for driving 61 mph in a 40 mph zone.
During the stop, Massey argued with Gardner about his speed and then refused to sign the citation. Massey then got out of his car and followed Gardner to his police car where he was asked to place his hands behind his back. When Massey refused, Gardner shocked him.
The suit said Massey fell screaming in pain after being shocked while Gardner taunted him by saying, "Hurts, doesn't it?" Massey struck his head against the pavement and was zapped a second time because he was unable to immediately obey an order to turn over on his stomach, according to the suit.
"We thought the amount of force used was outrageous," Sykes said Monday.
The settlement amount includes attorneys' fees. The Attorney General's Office says Massey has agreed to dismiss his lawsuit, all claims against Gardner and all potential claims against UHP, the Utah Department of Public Safety and the state.

That quote you bolded is from the suspect's lawyer. I don't see anything in there about the Highway Patrol being unhappy with him. ???

[Rohirrim]

That quote you bolded is from the suspect's lawyer. I don't see anything in there about the Highway Patrol being unhappy with him. ???

After a few more hundred thousand in judgments against them, they'll change that tune. Ha!

[Florida_Bronco]

After a few more hundred thousand in judgments against them, they'll change that tune. Ha!

They didn't get a judgement, they settled.

[Spider]

They didn't get a judgement, they settled.

LOL and in the corner of symantics we have Dudley Dooright .......

[Florida_Bronco]

LOL and in the corner of symantics we have Dudley Dooright .......

Well you gotta figure that the police department probably would have spent more defending this case in trial than the 40k they gave him in a settlement, so it makes financial sense.

Ultimately the tax payers will end up footing the bill, as I'm sure the Highway Patrol out there will be stepping up their traffic patrols after this.

[Spider]

Well you gotta figure that the police department probably would have spent more defending this case in trial than the 40k they gave him in a settlement, so it makes financial sense.

Ultimately the tax payers will end up footing the bill, as I'm sure the Highway Patrol out there will be stepping up their traffic patrols after this.

LOL pure spin ..... but I really dont have time for petty arguments today .....

[alkemical]

actually spider, by inferring that "The State" will be stepping up patrols to collect $ to pay for the settlement - he is proving that "The State" is a violent, lying, manipulative entity in which case it's a self-perpetuating issue of abusing it's citizens.

[Florida_Bronco]

LOL pure spin ..... but I really dont have time for petty arguments today .....

How do you consider it spin? You seriously don't think they spend more than 40k in legal fees to fight this?

[Spider]

How do you consider it spin? You seriously don't think they spend more than 40k in legal fees to fight this?

LOL .it is spin , the State just doesnt hand out 40 K settlements ya goof . if this went to trial , you could be looking at millions in a law suit instead of 40 K ..... But not to be mean here , but you go on believing what you want ...I dont give a rats ass either way ......what the UHP did was wieght the cost vs risk , and given public opinion of cops ...... 40 grand was the only way to go ... The vic of the cop took mercy on the UHP .....

[Spider]

actually spider, by inferring that "The State" will be stepping up patrols to collect $ to pay for the settlement - he is proving that "The State" is a violent, lying, manipulative entity in which case it's a self-perpetuating issue of abusing it's citizens.

;D yep ..... I will be staying away from Utah for awhile

[Florida_Bronco]

LOL .it is spin , the State just doesnt hand out 40 K settlements ya goof . if this went to trial , you could be looking at millions in a law suit instead of 40 K ..... But not to be mean here , but you go on believing what you want ...I dont give a rats ass either way ......what the UHP did was wieght the cost vs risk , and given public opinion of cops ...... 40 grand was the only way to go ... The vic of the cop took mercy on the UHP .....

You're right, it's definetly a risk vs. reward type thing, but their really would be no reward for the HP as they couldn't file a countersuit against the suspect.

Basically they had 2 options. 1) Give the man a settlement and be done with it or 2) Fight it in court, risk losing, but either way spend more in legal fees.

I think they made the smart move in this situation.

[bronco militia]

the cop had every right to zap him when he tried to walk away with his hand going to his pocket. what I don't understand is that cops can't make you sign anything and refusing to do so is by no means probable cause for a search.

[Spider]

the cop had every right to zap him when he tried to walk away with his hand going to his pocket. what I don't understand is that cops can't make you sign anything and refusing to do so is by no means probable cause for a search.

Signing a ticket is like having making bail , it isnt admitting guilt , of giving up any rights , It is a promise that you will show up in court , or take care of the fine by a certian date instead of the cop taking you into custody and seeing the judge ....... Though Texas is pretty screwed up on tickets for out of staters , but dont need ot go there now .......so by not signing , you are not leaving the cop much choice to take you in custody ..

[bronco militia]

Signing a ticket is like having making bail , it isnt admitting guilt , of giving up any rights , It is a promise that you will show up in court , or take care of the fine by a certian date instead of the cop taking you into custody and seeing the judge ....... Though Texas is pretty screwed up on tickets for out of staters , but dont need ot go there now .......so by not signing , you are not leaving the cop much choice to take you in custody ..

you have to appear in court regardless if you sign the ticket or not

[bronco militia]

nevermind....you live on the road, you would know better


No, it's just your acknowledgment of receipt of the notice to appear. Because you are actually being charged with a violation of law, the officer could take you into custody if you refuse to sign the ticket. By signing the traffic ticket, you avoid being taken into custody and are actually released on your own recognizance pending the court date. It's in your best interest to sign the ticket, so you remain free and retain your right to show up at the court hearing to dispute it or otherwise resolve the matter

[bronco militia]

so, the cop had every right to do what he did.

[Florida_Bronco]

so, the cop had every right to do what he did.

Legally, yes.

[Spider]

you have to appear in court regardless if you sign the ticket or not

no you dont , depends on where yo uare speeding and the amount of speed you are over ....... For example , I do 35 mph in 20 mph school zone , my ass is getting locked up , but if I am doing 80 mph on Highway 71 from Highway 14 to brush , I can either pay the fine or go to court ..... but anything over 15 mph over the posted limit could get me thrown in the slammer . but not always

[Spider]

so, the cop had every right to do what he did.

The cop jumped the gun , so to speak ....... he turned the situation a notch up when he didnt have to ........I deal with cops all of the time , you can pretty much tell if it will be a good encounter or a bad one as soon as the trooper gets out of his car ....... I have had some real good arguments on the side of the road , and some smooth encounters also ......

[bronco militia]

The cop jumped the gun , so to speak ....... he turned the situation a notch up when he didnt have to ........I deal with cops all of the time , you can pretty much tell if it will be a good encounter or a bad one as soon as the trooper gets out of his car ....... I have had some real good arguments on the side of the road , and some smooth encounters also ......

I wouldn't doubt it.....I agree he could have tried to communicate he intentions better, but the dumbass resisted when things got out of hand

[Rohirrim]

They didn't get a judgement, they settled.

You say po-tay-to and I say po-tah-to. ;D

[Florida_Bronco]

I wouldn't doubt it.....I agree he could have tried to communicate he intentions better, but the dumbass resisted when things got out of hand

That's pretty much the extent of it there.

[24champ]

Utah HP is really notorious for not letting people go after speeding.

It's also notorious for setting up speed traps everywhere. I know so because I have driven through Utah more than a 100 times.

Always follow the law when driving through Utah. ALWAYS.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

you have to appear in court regardless if you sign the ticket or not

My point exactly.

So why have the altercation on the side of the road to begin with?

Wait until he fails to appear, and then put out a warrant for his arrest.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Utah HP is really notorious for not letting people go after speeding.

It's also notorious for setting up speed traps everywhere. I know so because I have driven through Utah more than a 100 times.

Always follow the law when driving through Utah. ALWAYS.

Correct on all counts.

Utah is also notorious for advising speeders with out of state plates that they fall under suspicion for other crimes, e.g., drug smuggling - simply by virtue of having out of state plates and speeding - and for performing vehicle searches without warrants.