Who's more clutch? Elam or Vinatieri?

[GoHAM]

Vinatieri sucks ass.

29 yds to win and you miss it?

Elam is the man!

[-Slap-]

¿Quien es mas macho?

[broncswin]

dman the guy also missed a fire drill kick from around thirty, this just goes to show how clutch and special elam has been over his career!! Tip of the cap to you Mr. Elam:thumbsup: :notworthy

[Bronx33]

¿Quien es mas macho?


means one whos smells like rotting fish with hint of lemon

[Man-Goblin]

What bull**** tonight. Congrats to the Chargers for um, winning, er something...

[That One Guy]

You mean congrats to Sproles, the rest of the Bolts were just along for the ride.

[Popps]

What a disaster.

Nice of Manning to pick tonight to crap himself.

Probably the one time in the past several years I've rooted for him... and this is how he thanks me.

Hey, why hasn't anyone bumped Taco's "OMG Peyton is So Hot" thread?

[Jetmeck]

What a disaster.

Nice of Manning to pick tonight to crap himself.

Probably the one time in the past several years I've rooted for him... and this is how he thanks me.

Hey, why hasn't anyone bumped Taco's "OMG Peyton is So Hot" thread?


X2

[Blueflame]

What a disaster.

Nice of Manning to pick tonight to crap himself.

Probably the one time in the past several years I've rooted for him... and this is how he thanks me.

Hey, why hasn't anyone bumped Taco's "OMG Peyton is So Hot" thread?

Hey, he's just being consistent... and hosing the Broncos.

[Florida_Bronco]

I always felt like Vinateri got more pub than he deserved for those big kicks he made in the Super Bowls. Yeah he was always one of the better kickers in the league, but he wasn't as good as the hype made him seem.

All things being equal, I'd take Elam over Vinateri every day of the week. Elam is just as clutch, if not more, and has/had a substantially stronger leg.

[Killericon]

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20050121/images/afckick.jpg
http://www.itsalreadysigned4u.com/shop/media/images/product_detail/AAA-20094.jpg

This thread is a joke, right?

[Broncos4Life]

As soon as I saw that the Colts were trying to pull an Elam drill,(even the announcer's mentioned the drill) I laughed and said no way! This guys no Elam and those aren't the Broncos. And then he missed it. Even though I was going for the Colts, I felt really good when Vinateri missed that one.

[NASurfer]

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20050121/images/afckick.jpg
http://www.itsalreadysigned4u.com/shop/media/images/product_detail/AAA-20094.jpg

This thread is a joke, right?
I agree, Elam has been great for us but he's missed his share of game winners too.

You just can't match what Vinatieri has accomplished.

[bpc]

I still can't believe he crapped himself from 29 yards out.

What a bad year. Even when we win, we still lose. The cards are just not in our favor this year.

It would have been beautiful to be in a 3 way tie for the division lead tonight.

[epa86b@netzero]

I always felt like Vinateri got more pub than he deserved for those big kicks he made in the Super Bowls. Yeah he was always one of the better kickers in the league, but he wasn't as good as the hype made him seem.

All things being equal, I'd take Elam over Vinateri every day of the week. Elam is just as clutch, if not more, and has/had a substantially stronger leg.

Getting more pub is not Vinateri's fault that is the media. We know the media does self serving things.

All things being equal, i would take the Vinateri who has kicked effective in all kinds of weather and produced in the playoffs. Elam is very good though and this is not a slight on him and he may very well have matched Vinateri if placed in the same situations.

[loborugger]

Adam missed two clutch kicks last night. He, like Manning, decided to crap himself last night. But dont fool yourself, he is a very good kicker.

It did, however, make me smile to see that the Broncos were imitiated with a Toro call but they missed.

Oh and Slap... Los dos son kickers. No es muy macho ni.

[Florida_Bronco]

Getting more pub is not Vinateri's fault that is the media. We know the media does self serving things.

All things being equal, i would take the Vinateri who has kicked effective in all kinds of weather and produced in the playoffs. Elam is very good though and this is not a slight on him and he may very well have matched Vinateri if placed in the same situations.

Over Elam's career he has done everything that Vinateri has plus more. And I understand the pub is the medias fault, but that gets people to believe a player is much better than he really is. It's alot like Ed Reed, a guy who gets alot of praise for being a playmaker, but alot of fans don't see where he is out of position and his team gets burned because of it.

The only reason I could ever see taking Vinateri over Elam would be age, beyond that I'd take Elam everyday.

[azbroncfan]

The only reason I could ever see taking Vinateri over Elam would be age, beyond that I'd take Elam everyday.

Elam gets hurt every year for the past few years too.

[Archie]

Over Elam's career he has done everything that Vinateri has plus more. And I understand the pub is the medias fault, but that gets people to believe a player is much better than he really is. It's alot like Ed Reed, a guy who gets alot of praise for being a playmaker, but alot of fans don't see where he is out of position and his team gets burned because of it.

The only reason I could ever see taking Vinateri over Elam would be age, beyond that I'd take Elam everyday.


I love Elam, think he is an established clutch kicker, and would take him over nearly all kickers in the league. But.... come on about saying that Elam has done everything that Vinateri has done. I would so wish for it to be true. But when you kick 50 yard field goals in a blizzard to send your team to the super bowl you set your self apart. And - he's done that to us in Denver so it was not a fluke. Elam has made huge, clutch kicks. Vinateri has made more high profile ones, he has a stronger leg, he kicks off to the end-zone. As much as I hate to say it I would have to take Vinateri over Elam.

[Sassy]

What happened to the fans that were complaining that Elam was finished? Ha! The 44 and 50 yarders (hurt and in Narrowhead, none the less) must have convinced them that Jason still has it.

[elsid13]

I love Elam, think he is an established clutch kicker, and would take him over nearly all kickers in the league. But.... come on about saying that Elam has done everything that Vinateri has done. I would so wish for it to be true. But when you kick 50 yard field goals in a blizzard to send your team to the super bowl you set your self apart. And - he's done that to us in Denver so it was not a fluke. Elam has made huge, clutch kicks. Vinateri has made more high profile ones, he has a stronger leg, he kicks off to the end-zone. As much as I hate to say it I would have to take Vinateri over Elam.

How about kicking 63 yarder in Playoff Game? That doesn't count??? Vinateri is where Elam was 5 years ago. In time that stronger leg will be lose something and he will be what Elam is now.

[elsid13]

What happened to the fans that were complaining that Elam was finished? Ha! The 44 and 50 yarders (hurt and in Narrowhead, none the less) must have convinced them that Jason still has it.

Elam is on the downside of his career, and kicks that he used to be trotted out for are now punts or 4th down go for it by the offense. I would be surprised to see him in Denver uniform in two years time.

[broncofan2438]

yea, Elam is getting old, and that game last night was so frusterating. All i wanted was a colts win, goes to show you that football just drives everyone crazy

[Beantown Bronco]

But when you kick 50 yard field goals in a blizzard to send your team to the super bowl you set your self apart. And - he's done that to us in Denver so it was not a fluke.

I think you are confusing him with Vanderjadt here.

[Sassy]

kicks that he used to be trotted out for are now punts or 4th down go for it by the offense.

BS...Jason has won 3 games for us this year because Shanny didn't have the guts to go for it on 4th down. He'd rather kick the fg than go for the TD.

[azbroncfan]

How about kicking 63 yarder in Playoff Game? That doesn't count??? Vinateri is where Elam was 5 years ago. In time that stronger leg will be lose something and he will be what Elam is now.

Elam's FG was in a blowout regular season game against JAX.

[lex]

I always felt like Vinateri got more pub than he deserved for those big kicks he made in the Super Bowls. Yeah he was always one of the better kickers in the league, but he wasn't as good as the hype made him seem.

All things being equal, I'd take Elam over Vinateri every day of the week. Elam is just as clutch, if not more, and has/had a substantially stronger leg.


I agree. Elam has a better % from every range except 40-50 yards. And Elam is far better than Viniatieri from 50 + yards. A perfect example I like to refer to is the 2005 playoff game between Denver and New England. Denver moved the ball to put Elam in position to kick a 50/51 yd FG. Elam kicks a bunch of turf and still knocked it through from 50/51 yards. Also in that game, NE had the chance to kick a FG from 45-47 yards and Belichick forewent the FG attempt. Vinatieri gets too much credit due to opportunity in the playoffs.

[Paladin]

You kidding me? Elam is not a jerk, unlike other kickers we all know about. That makes him number 1.......

[lex]

I love Elam, think he is an established clutch kicker, and would take him over nearly all kickers in the league. But.... come on about saying that Elam has done everything that Vinateri has done. I would so wish for it to be true. But when you kick 50 yard field goals in a blizzard to send your team to the super bowl you set your self apart.

Youre mixing up two seperate events. Vinatieris play off kick youre referring to was a 45 yarder and it was to tie the game. Vanderjagt kicked a 50 ish FG to win a game in Denver but I believe that was after Elam had done the same thing moments before. So if Elam doesnt come through from way out in that game, its not even necessary for VDJ to make his kick.

And - he's done that to us in Denver so it was not a fluke. Elam has made huge, clutch kicks. Vinateri has made more high profile ones, he has a stronger leg, he kicks off to the end-zone. As much as I hate to say it I would have to take Vinateri over Elam.

Ive already provided a specific example of how Elam is a more reliable kicker in referencing the playoff game Vs the Pats from 2 years ago.

[Garcia Bronco]

I agree, Elam has been great for us but he's missed his share of game winners too.

You just can't match what Vinatieri has accomplished.

You're on crack.

[Jason in LA]

Vinatieri will get the pub because the Pats have needed FGs to win their big games. When the Broncos made their Super Bowl runs the games didn't come down to last second FGs. Elam wasn't in the position that Adam was in. The Broncos took care of business and didn't leave the game in the hands of a soccer player like the Pats have done so much. If Elam needed to hit a game winning FG in a big time playoff game, he would have hit it.

[Northman]

What a disaster.

Nice of Manning to pick tonight to crap himself.

Probably the one time in the past several years I've rooted for him... and this is how he thanks me.

Hey, why hasn't anyone bumped Taco's "OMG Peyton is So Hot" thread?


See Popps, this is your payback for all those "Mr. Fantastic" photos you always put up in his thread. Ha!

[smalltowngrll]

Vinatieri is only 3 years younger than Elam! So, with that...they are both almost at their prime. You might get an extra 2-3 years out of V than E. But, with that said...looking at their statistics...it's really almost the same. Elam has Vinatieri on longest kick by 6 yards.

What I find interesting is that Elam has attempted 60 (with 36 made, 60%) at 50+ yeards while Viatieri has only attempted 19 (with 8 made, 42%) So, in long situations, I'd pull for Elam in any game...even at this age!

When it comes to shorter kicks, their percentages made are almost identical as well as their points per game average.

[epicSocialism4tw]

How about kicking 63 yarder in Playoff Game? That doesn't count??? Vinateri is where Elam was 5 years ago. In time that stronger leg will be lose something and he will be what Elam is now.

Elam is and was awesome. He has been just as "clutch", and has the all-time distance record.

He was Vinatieri before the East Coast media slobberfest somehow made kickers cool.

[SoDak Bronco]

Even Tiger woods misses a few gimmees, Adam is a flat out stud and is probably the most clutch kicker of all time.

[Beantown Bronco]

Even Tiger woods misses a few gimmees, Adam is a flat out stud and is probably the most clutch kicker of all time.

He "earned" that title based off of 3 kicks....I've seen most of his games over his career and I'm not buying.

It's comical how many people forget that Adam V. is personally responsible for running Pete Carroll out of town. My Pats fan friends and I talk about this all the time when the "legend" of Adam V. comes up.

He missed several potential game winners in Carroll's last season in New England. Had he made those, they make the playoffs and Carroll's job is safe.

[Florida_Bronco]

I love Elam, think he is an established clutch kicker, and would take him over nearly all kickers in the league. But.... come on about saying that Elam has done everything that Vinateri has done. I would so wish for it to be true. But when you kick 50 yard field goals in a blizzard to send your team to the super bowl you set your self apart. And - he's done that to us in Denver so it was not a fluke. Elam has made huge, clutch kicks. Vinateri has made more high profile ones, he has a stronger leg, he kicks off to the end-zone. As much as I hate to say it I would have to take Vinateri over Elam.

How about that 51 yard FG Elam kicked against the Raiders a few years back to send the game to overtime on MNF? That was in the middle of a huge snowstorm.

The only thing Elam hasn't done is make a Super Bowl winning kick, but he hasn't had the oppourtunity either.

Oh, and Elam has a stronger leg without question.

[lex]

Also, havent most of Vinatieris game winners come when the score was tied? To me its more impressive when make kicks when you are behind. That 45 yarder Vinatieri made in the snow vs the Raiders was an all time classic. But I think the SB winners came when the score was tied. It still counts and all but I think because people call them game winners they are lumped in with kicks that are made from behind. If its tied and you miss, you still have a chance to win. When youre behind its back against the wall.

[NASurfer]

You're on crack.
Huh? 3 game winning FGs with the Super bowl on the line is easy to match? My bad. Look at alll those kickers who've accomplished that! Hilarious!

I've already given props to Elam, and yes he's missed too. I'd imagine there are quite a few "Fire Elam" threads here that wouldn't be hard to find if I decided to dig.

I think someone else here is under the influence and it isn't me. :loopy:

[broncs2bowl]

kicks that he used to be trotted out for are now punts or 4th down go for it by the offense.

BS...Jason has won 3 games for us this year because Shanny didn't have the guts to go for it on 4th down. He'd rather kick the fg than go for the TD.

WTF are you saying!!!!! He doesnt have the guts.....if you go for it on 4th down in any of those games it would be SOOOOOO stupid. That was the most idiotic post I have ever seen from anybody EVER. Are u stupid. Just shut up and go hide in a hole.

[That One Guy]

WTF are you saying!!!!! He doesnt have the guts.....if you go for it on 4th down in any of those games it would be SOOOOOO stupid. That was the most idiotic post I have ever seen from anybody EVER. Are u stupid. Just shut up and go hide in a hole.

Hey Dork, if you're gonna knock one of the regular posters around here, at least allow for minimal comprehension. I don't know how you could expect a response to that, it's hardly even english.

[Los Broncos]

This is a tough one, id have take Elam.

[Blueflame]

WTF are you saying!!!!! He doesnt have the guts.....if you go for it on 4th down in any of those games it would be SOOOOOO stupid. That was the most idiotic post I have ever seen from anybody EVER. Are u stupid. Just shut up and go hide in a hole.

Broncs2bowl...there was no call for launching a personal attack over this post. It's not your place to denigrate other posters' intelligence or to arrogantly order them to "shut up". It's my opinion that an apology to Sassy is in order.

[No1BroncoFan]

I love Elam, think he is an established clutch kicker, and would take him over nearly all kickers in the league. But.... come on about saying that Elam has done everything that Vinateri has done. I would so wish for it to be true. But when you kick 50 yard field goals in a blizzard to send your team to the super bowl you set your self apart. And - he's done that to us in Denver so it was not a fluke. Elam has made huge, clutch kicks. Vinateri has made more high profile ones, he has a stronger leg, he kicks off to the end-zone. As much as I hate to say it I would have to take Vinateri over Elam.
Who's shoe is already in the hall of fame? 'Nuff said.

Ben

[lex]

Who's shoe is already in the hall of fame? 'Nuff said.

Ben

Archie has no idea what he's talking about. He has his facts wrong and Elam has a far stronger leg than Vinatieri has had. Even now.

[TomServo]

Huh? 3 game winning FGs with the Super bowl on the line is easy to match? My bad. Look at alll those kickers who've accomplished that!
i would bet the house that elam would make those kicks too given the chance. the key phrase is given the chance. i bet any top five kicker (besides the idiot kicker)would do the same. vinateri got the chances and made good. good for him.

[sgbfan]

If anybody who is arguing for Vinatieri actually thinks that Elam would not have made the same kicks if he was on the Pats, then they might have reason to say that he is better. The truth is, Elam is every bit as good as Vinatieri, and has done more, except that it was never in the Superbowl. Elam has kicked a 60+ yard field goal, made 35+ 50 yd filed goals and won 20+ games. I don't think Vinatieri has done any of those things.

[Garcia Bronco]

Huh? 3 game winning FGs with the Super bowl on the line is easy to match? My bad. Look at alll those kickers who've accomplished that! Hilarious!

I've already given props to Elam, and yes he's missed too. I'd imagine there are quite a few "Fire Elam" threads here that wouldn't be hard to find if I decided to dig.

I think someone else here is under the influence and it isn't me. :loopy:

AV isn't even in the same league career wise, points wise, or leg wise.

[WABronco]

A good kicker is a good kicker...to me. One difference between Elam and Vinatieri: Elam doens't try to come off as a badass kicker nor does he "strut" the way Vinatieri does.

To me, Vinatieri exudes a little too much confidence, so I like to see him miss and just generally make fun of him.

I believe there's an essay in the 2006 Pro Football Prospectus that compares the two from a stats and "clutch" perspective. I'm gonna have to check that out again.

[Atwater His Ass]

He "earned" that title based off of 3 kicks....I've seen most of his games over his career and I'm not buying.

It's comical how many people forget that Adam V. is personally responsible for running Pete Carroll out of town. My Pats fan friends and I talk about this all the time when the "legend" of Adam V. comes up.

He missed several potential game winners in Carroll's last season in New England. Had he made those, they make the playoffs and Carroll's job is safe.

You have to understand that SoDak is from South Dakota, same place as Vinetari, and maybe played against him or something, so yeah, he's probably gonna pull for him.

I'm also from SD and saw V play and knew him a little bit. He was always such a jerk I can't stand to pull for the guy. Hey, but that's all on a personal level. On a professional level, the guy is a great kicker and I'd take him over Elam today. If I could choose either in their prime, I'd take Elam however.

[BroncoMan4ever]

Elam is more clutch and always has been. the guys has ice running through his veins. Vinatieri was a descent guy who used to be capable of hitting big kicks but Elam is automatic when you need the win or tie or just the 3 points.

[NASurfer]

AV isn't even in the same league career wise, points wise, or leg wise.
Oh I'm not bashing Elam at all. He's been great for us and in a way I kinda agree with Tom Servo.... Elam would probably step up in the same situation too. It's just bizarre to me that Vinatieri misses one FG and people jump up and down and act like he's a bum. Where were they when he kicked the game winner over us in 2006?

[sgbfan]

Oh I'm not bashing Elam at all. He's been great for us and in a way I kinda agree with Tom Servo.... Elam would probably step up in the same situation too. It's just bizarre to me that Vinatieri misses one FG and people jump up and down and act like he's a bum. Where were they when he kicked the game winner over us in 2005?

I don't think Vinatieri is a bad kicker. He is one of the top in the league. I don't think anybody thinks otherwise. I thought Elam was a better kicker before Sunday night. Vinatieri choking just got everybody thinking.

It does suck that he does it against SD. Peyton kills us even when he's not playing Denver. . .

[Bladerunner]

He "earned" that title based off of 3 kicks....I've seen most of his games over his career and I'm not buying.

It's comical how many people forget that Adam V. is personally responsible for running Pete Carroll out of town. My Pats fan friends and I talk about this all the time when the "legend" of Adam V. comes up.

He missed several potential game winners in Carroll's last season in New England. Had he made those, they make the playoffs and Carroll's job is safe.

Now I hate him even more...thanks for that.:thumbsdow

[Archie]

I think you are confusing him with Vanderjadt here.


I think they both did it if I recall...

[Archie]

How about kicking 63 yarder in Playoff Game? That doesn't count??? Vinateri is where Elam was 5 years ago. In time that stronger leg will be lose something and he will be what Elam is now.

This kick was on a warm Sunday afternoon in October during the regular season - not in the playoffs.

[lex]

This kick was on a warm Sunday afternoon in October during the regular season - not in the playoffs.

Yeah, he was also perfect on the season though. Elam kicked a 63 yard FG to keep his FG % at 100. So its not like there was no pressure.

[Bronx33]

The real question here is which kicker can drive a clutch? Hmmmmmm Hmmmmm

[Killericon]

Yeah, he was also perfect on the season though. Elam kicked a 63 yard FG to keep his FG % at 100. So its not like there was no pressure.

You're comparing the pressure faced when a kicker tries to win a game to the "pressure" he faces when he's seeking statistical perfection? Give me a ****ing break. The only pressure he could have even fathomably faced was that he was attempting the longest FG in history.

[lex]

You're comparing the pressure faced when a kicker tries to win a game to the "pressure" he faces when he's seeking statistical perfection? Give me a ****ing break. The only pressure he could have even fathomably faced was that he was attempting the longest FG in history.

No, Im not comparing that particular kick with what youve said, jackass. And from now on, ask instead of trying to interpret what Im saying. I was just saying there was an element of pressure on his 63 yard FG. Someone else had already established that it was in a blow out vs Jax. Maybe you should actually pay closer attention to details.

[Florida_Bronco]

I still say Elam was a better kicker than Vinateri, and I bet you most NFL GMs would take Elam as well.

[Killericon]

No, Im not comparing that particular kick with what youve said, jackass. And from now on, ask instead of trying to interpret what Im saying. I was just saying there was an element of pressure on his 63 yard FG. Someone else had already established that it was in a blow out vs Jax. Maybe you should actually pay closer attention to details.

Coming from you, that means a lot. I'm just saying that I doubt going for a perfect field goal percentage was in the forefront of his mind in Week 8. My bad.

EDIT::

Elam wasn't perfect that year, or any year. Thanks for playing.

[lex]

Coming from you, that means a lot. I'm just saying that I doubt going for a perfect field goal percentage was in the forefront of his mind in Week 8. My bad.

EDIT::

Elam wasn't perfect that year, or any year. Thanks for playing.

Once again, the details come into play. I said at that point he was perfect. He didnt finish with a 100% but his first miss came later. That Jax game was in late October so it was well into the season. Run along now.

[Killericon]

Once again, the details come into play. I said at that point he was perfect. He didnt finish with a 100% but his first miss came later. That Jax game was in late October so it was well into the season. Run along now.

Alright, yeah, you got me, but it was still only week 8. Don't act like you schooled anyone, though, you still thought it was in a playoff game.

Urgh. I'm done with this bitter bickering.

[Beantown Bronco]

You're comparing the pressure faced when a kicker tries to win a game to the "pressure" he faces when he's seeking statistical perfection? Give me a ****ing break.

So TD is lying to us when he says the pressure of going undefeated finally got to the Broncos when they played the Giants?

There is always pressure when perfection is on the line. Period. Be it a pitcher working on a perfect game, a team going for a perfect season, or even a kicker on a consecutive kicks made run. Sure, the pressure takes time to build and won't be there in the first inning of a baseball game or the first few games of a football season. But it could certainly be there by the halfway point of the season.

[orange 4 life]

Vinatieri sucks ass.

29 yds to win and you miss it?

Elam is the man!

unfortunately vinatieri's miss put us a game out of 1st place.

...and it NEVER shouldve come to that.

changing the spot of the ball by a few inches is ludicrous enough, and then penalizing the colts for a legal shift is the icing on the cake, given that the kick WOULDVE been good from twenty FOUR yards.

im still pissed about it.

[UboBronco]

My question is, and I do not know how to research the answer, is who has performed better when missing a kick loses the game? I remember one where Elam had blocked, last year I believe, against Oakland. But an outright miss like Viniteri had last week was pretty bad.

They both have sent games into overtime, and even if the team lost, did they prevent the loss or have the game extended, or even won.

Both are darn good in my opinion, and I would not want either against me kicking for a victory for another team.

[Beantown Bronco]

Vinatieri is already 0-2 so far today in the dome....a 49 yarder and a 38 yarder. The guy is so overrated it's not even funny.

[Kaylore]

He's playing hurt, but if he's that bad then they're going to be screwed today. KC has all the momentum this game.