Time for a True Playoffs System

[Rohirrim]

OSU goes down. This is the 9th time THIS SEASON that a number one team has gone down to an unranked team. If Kansas wins out, they automatically play for the title in the Rose Bowl. They still have to face Missouri and play OkState tonight. Who knows? So how can anybody legitimately pick one of the one loss teams if it ends up OSU, LSU, Oregon, BC, etc. etc. etc. It's going to be more than just a controversy. It's going to be all out war. Really, it's way past the time for college to go to a playoffs system.

[shakenbake]

Don't forget Kansas will also have to playin the Big 12 championship game. If they go through Missouri, Okie St and ou I think the deserve it just as much as anyone does.

[Garcia Bronco]

OSU goes down. This is the 9th time THIS SEASON that a number one team has gone down to an unranked team. If Kansas wins out, they automatically play for the title in the Rose Bowl. They still have to face Missouri and play OkState tonight. Who knows? So how can anybody legitimately pick one of the one loss teams if it ends up OSU, LSU, Oregon, BC, etc. etc. etc. It's going to be more than just a controversy. It's going to be all out war. Really, it's way past the time for college to go to a playoffs system.

Easy....you take the Hokies. :)

[Garcia Bronco]

A playoff system wouldn't really work for the fans or the students. I dig the bowls myself. But I go to them regularly

[lex]

8 teams with the top 4 getting HFA. And then after that (ie the final four), it goes to the bowls. So basicall 2 of the 4 bowl games would be involved with the playoff and the NC game will remain that.

[TexanBob]

I voted "combo" however my answer is essentially an 8-team playoff strictly of conference champions (you must win your conference to make the tournament - no at larges, no excuses). The BCS structure as it is would be used to seed the 8 teams, nothing more.

[Northman]

Playoffs for the top 8 teams are waaaaaaay overdue.

[Crushaholic]

If KU wins out, they are a lock for the national title game (ugh, did I just write that?:thumbsdow ). If Hawaii wins out as well, it will get interesting. Hawaii's strength of schedule doesn't say that they've faced the top teams in the nation. However, they have to play the schedule they are given. It's probably not easy to get teams to play in Hawaii...

[TexanBob]

It's probably not easy to get teams to play in Hawaii...

Actually, it's one of the easiest. Teams with road trips to Hawaii or Las Vegas on their schedules use them as recruiting tools. The boosters want to travel there. The only problem is the overall expense but if teams are able to get some tv money out of it, they usually do okay.

Now, motivationally, teams don't like to play Hawaii because they don't have national cred and it is sometimes a problem getting players to focus what with all the distractions on the island (and the jet lag).

[ZachKC]

If KU wins out, they are a lock for the national title game (ugh, did I just write that?:thumbsdow ). If Hawaii wins out as well, it will get interesting. Hawaii's strength of schedule doesn't say that they've faced the top teams in the nation. However, they have to play the schedule they are given. It's probably not easy to get teams to play in Hawaii...

Hawaii will have to win out to be part of a BCS bowl. They won't be a part of the national championship no matter what they do, even if they are undefeated.

If Missouri were to win out? I think they have as good of a case as any as a 1 loss team. They would have one loss in Norman...a very very close game in a place that many people win at. They would be ending the season with 2 wins over top 5 BCS teams including beating the only team that beat them and be Big 12 Champions. That win over Illinois is looking pretty nice as well. They don't have any particularly close games wins it seems like teams like LSU "squeak" out wins left and right.

Anyway, it is a crazy year. I can't wait for MU\KU at Arrowhead.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2364/1972665776_3d2ac40b95.jpg?v=0

[lex]

I voted "combo" however my answer is essentially an 8-team playoff strictly of conference champions (you must win your conference to make the tournament - no at larges, no excuses). The BCS structure as it is would be used to seed the 8 teams, nothing more.

No way. If youre in the SEC, say, and youre 2 games up in the west with 1 game to play, youd be very tempted to rest players knowing the last game before the SEC Ch game is the only game that matters. It would be better if the 8 teams in the tournament had to play all the way through and making it top 8 regardless of conference does that. In my proposal where the top 4 teams get HFA, theyd obviously be playing to stay in the top 4 to secure HFA. And if you were ranked 5-8, youd obviously want to remain in the top 8. So that provides tiered incentives to ensure teams play to win all the way through. Without HFA, you might see a team who is ranked 1, lose and slide to 8....so the incentive to win the last game might be removed to a degree. HFA is the way to go.

[TexanBob]

No way. If youre in the SEC, say, and youre 2 games up in the west with 1 game to play, youd be very tempted to rest players knowing the last game before the SEC Ch game is the only game that matters. It would be better if the 8 teams in the tournament had to play all the way through and making it top 8 regardless of conference does that. In my proposal where the top 4 teams get HFA, theyd obviously be playing to stay in the top 4 to secure HFA. And if you were ranked 5-8, youd obviously want to remain in the top 8. So that provides tiered incentives to ensure teams play to win all the way through. Without HFA, you might see a team who is ranked 1, lose and slide to 8....so the incentive to win the last game might be removed to a degree. HFA is the way to go.

But the BCS is used for the seeding so if, say, LSU tanked their last game of the season knowing they would play in the Championship Game, it might bust them from, say, #1 to #5 in the BCS rankings.

So what, you ask? Here's what. In my system, the first round games are played on the home field of the top 4 teams. Also, the #1 and #2 teams generally have first-round games that aren't as tough as 4 vs 5 or 3 vs 6.

So, in my system, LSU could theorhetically dog a last game of the regular season but it would cost them.

While no conference champion has been crowned yet, using today's BCS rankings and assuming the team with the best conference record wins the conference, my eight team playoff would presently look like this:

#8 BYU (BCS#29 - MWC) at #1 LSU* (BCS #1 - SEC)
#7 UConn* (BCS #24 - BigE) at #2 Kansas* (BCS #3 - Big12)
#6 Hawaii (BCS #16 - WAC) at #3 Ohio State (BCS #7 - Big10)
#5 Virginia* (BCS #14 - ACC) at #4 Arizona State (BCS #9 - Pac10)

* - must win conference championship game.

While that looks like a lackluster group, there's some key games left that will bring the cream to the crop.

#2 Oregon has the tie-breaker with Arizona State and will probably win the Pac-10 but, currently is behind in the overall standings, 5-1 to 6-1.
#3 Kansas will obviously have to go through #6 Missouri and #4 Oklahoma to win the conference. Really, any of these three teams could emerge as the champs.
#6 West Virginia is behind in the standings to UConn, 3-1 to 4-1 but the two teams will meet on Nov. 24 to essentially decide who wins the conference.
Likewise, #7 Ohio State is tied with #21 Michigan (both 6-1) and will settle the conference title this Saturday.
#16 Hawaii is undefeated but so is #18 Boise St. in conference (both 6-0) and will play each other Nov. 23rd to decide their conference.
In the ACC, there's really already a playoff scenario as Clemson will play B.C. for one division while Virginia and Virginia Tech will vie for the other division then the two winners will square off in the conference championship.

So, in reality, every team in the BCS top 10 is still in the hunt for one of the eight playoff spots and you have to get to #11 USC and #13 Texas before you find any schools that have no realistic shot at winning their conference.

BTW, if BYU were to stumble, UCF might take their spot as the winner of Conference USA should they win out.

[lex]

But the BCS is used for the seeding so if, say, LSU tanked their last game of the season knowing they would play in the Championship Game, it might bust them from, say, #1 to #5 in the BCS rankings.

So what, you ask? Here's what. In my system, the first round games are played on the home field of the top 4 teams. Also, the #1 and #2 teams generally have first-round games that aren't as tough as 4 vs 5 or 3 vs 6.

So, in my system, LSU could theorhetically dog a last game of the regular season but it would cost them.

While no conference champion has been crowned yet, using today's BCS rankings and assuming the team with the best conference record wins the conference, my eight team playoff would presently look like this:

#8 BYU (BCS#29 - MWC) at #1 LSU* (BCS #1 - SEC)
#7 UConn* (BCS #24 - BigE) at #2 Kansas* (BCS #3 - Big12)
#6 Hawaii (BCS #16 - WAC) at #3 Ohio State (BCS #7 - Big10)
#5 Virginia* (BCS #14 - ACC) at #4 Arizona State (BCS #9 - Pac10)

* - must win conference championship game.

While that looks like a lackluster group, there's some key games left that will bring the cream to the crop.

#2 Oregon has the tie-breaker with Arizona State and will probably win the Pac-10 but, currently is behind in the overall standings, 5-1 to 6-1.
#3 Kansas will obviously have to go through #6 Missouri and #4 Oklahoma to win the conference. Really, any of these three teams could emerge as the champs.
#6 West Virginia is behind in the standings to UConn, 3-1 to 4-1 but the two teams will meet on Nov. 24 to essentially decide who wins the conference.
Likewise, #7 Ohio State is tied with #21 Michigan (both 6-1) and will settle the conference title this Saturday.
#16 Hawaii is undefeated but so is #18 Boise St. in conference (both 6-0) and will play each other Nov. 23rd to decide their conference.
In the ACC, there's really already a playoff scenario as Clemson will play B.C. for one division while Virginia and Virginia Tech will vie for the other division then the two winners will square off in the conference championship.

So, in reality, every team in the BCS top 10 is still in the hunt for one of the eight playoff spots and you have to get to #11 USC and #13 Texas before you find any schools that have no realistic shot at winning their conference.

BTW, if BYU were to stumble, UCF might take their spot as the winner of Conference USA should they win out.

Meh. The 29th ranked team doesnt belong in a tournament to decide the NC only because they win their conference. Sorry.

[TexanBob]

Meh. The 29th ranked team doesnt belong in a tournament to decide the NC only because they win their conference. Sorry.

A good point however every year I have been proposing this championship before this year, the #8 seed wound up somewhere in the mid teens. This year just happens to be an outlier. That seems to also coincide with Notre Dame not qualifying (my system treats them like a conference unto themselves) and the fact that the two top non-major conference teams happen to come from the same conference (Hawaii and Boise St.). Before the season, many thought TCU would be a 11-1 or 10-2 team but they, too, have fallen flat this year.

One thing I do like about my plan is that the minor conferences do get at least one seat at the table. I don't like seeing the current bowl situation being essentially a contest of the "haves" while the "have nots" are just told to go sit in a corner.

[Northman]

But the BCS is used for the seeding so if, say, LSU tanked their last game of the season knowing they would play in the Championship Game, it might bust them from, say, #1 to #5 in the BCS rankings.

So what, you ask? Here's what. In my system, the first round games are played on the home field of the top 4 teams. Also, the #1 and #2 teams generally have first-round games that aren't as tough as 4 vs 5 or 3 vs 6.

So, in my system, LSU could theorhetically dog a last game of the regular season but it would cost them.

While no conference champion has been crowned yet, using today's BCS rankings and assuming the team with the best conference record wins the conference, my eight team playoff would presently look like this:

#8 BYU (BCS#29 - MWC) at #1 LSU* (BCS #1 - SEC)
#7 UConn* (BCS #24 - BigE) at #2 Kansas* (BCS #3 - Big12)
#6 Hawaii (BCS #16 - WAC) at #3 Ohio State (BCS #7 - Big10)
#5 Virginia* (BCS #14 - ACC) at #4 Arizona State (BCS #9 - Pac10)

* - must win conference championship game.

While that looks like a lackluster group, there's some key games left that will bring the cream to the crop.

#2 Oregon has the tie-breaker with Arizona State and will probably win the Pac-10 but, currently is behind in the overall standings, 5-1 to 6-1.
#3 Kansas will obviously have to go through #6 Missouri and #4 Oklahoma to win the conference. Really, any of these three teams could emerge as the champs.
#6 West Virginia is behind in the standings to UConn, 3-1 to 4-1 but the two teams will meet on Nov. 24 to essentially decide who wins the conference.
Likewise, #7 Ohio State is tied with #21 Michigan (both 6-1) and will settle the conference title this Saturday.
#16 Hawaii is undefeated but so is #18 Boise St. in conference (both 6-0) and will play each other Nov. 23rd to decide their conference.
In the ACC, there's really already a playoff scenario as Clemson will play B.C. for one division while Virginia and Virginia Tech will vie for the other division then the two winners will square off in the conference championship.

So, in reality, every team in the BCS top 10 is still in the hunt for one of the eight playoff spots and you have to get to #11 USC and #13 Texas before you find any schools that have no realistic shot at winning their conference.

BTW, if BYU were to stumble, UCF might take their spot as the winner of Conference USA should they win out.


I could live with that senario.

[Garcia Bronco]

Again...the playoff thing is great, but what about the students and their class schedules and the fans that pay to actually go to all these games? You guys are looking at this like football fans, but ignoring the reality of what you are asking for. For starters, you would have to shorten the regular season. And please don't compare the fan draw and money around D-1 vs D-2...it really isn't even in the same league.

Do any of you realize what it costs to go to a bowl game? Or what a playoff game would cost?

for example...the BCS NC game will cost anywhere from 1600 to 2000 per person if you fly...and you haven't eaten or drank a drop yet. Where as the Gator Bowl might cost you 600-1000 per person. It ain't cheap. So now you price many students out of the games they can attend by adding more games. A playoff is great, and it can be done, but the current system is pretty good IMO

[TexanBob]

Don't sweat it, GB. My playoff system would have the first round games in mid-December, the two semi-finals during the New Years bowls and the championship game during the dead weekend between the NFL conference championships and the Super Bowl, plenty of time for finals and family visits in between. It also guarantees two weeks between conference championship games and the first round, the first round and the semi-finals and the semi-finals to the championship game - time for healing up and drawing up some new wrinkles in between.

As for travel costs, the first round games are played at the home field of the higher seed so only four teams need to travel and most are bound to have their season end there.

Only four teams then need to travel to the semi-finals which is no different than fans travelling to a bowl game now. Then the championship game is held at which point 90% of the fans are going to be alumni (who can afford it) and corporate suits so college kids aren't likely to be much of the mix anyway.

And only two schools every year even need to worry about this.

I will say, however, that part of the reason I stick to an 8-team playoff rather than 16 is that the logistics of four post-season games would be more of a hardship for players and fans. Even the top seeds in the NFL don't have to play four post-season games.

Fans of March Madness have to follow their teams through three cities to reach the Final Four and nobody complains about the expense of that.

I think eight works for college football as I've outlined above and the higher-seeded teams will only need to travel twice so it is not as grueling as you might imagine. Even the advocates of a "plus one" format would be asking teams to travel twice in the same time frame so this really isn't much different.

[Garcia Bronco]

Don't sweat it, GB. My playoff system would have the first round games in mid-December, the two semi-finals during the New Years bowls and the championship game during the dead weekend between the NFL conference championships and the Super Bowl, plenty of time for finals and family visits in between. It also guarantees two weeks between conference championship games and the first round, the first round and the semi-finals and the semi-finals to the championship game - time for healing up and drawing up some new wrinkles in between.

As for travel costs, the first round games are played at the home field of the higher seed so only four teams need to travel and most are bound to have their season end there.

Only four teams then need to travel to the semi-finals which is no different than fans travelling to a bowl game now. Then the championship game is held at which point 90% of the fans are going to be alumni (who can afford it) and corporate suits so college kids aren't likely to be much of the mix anyway.

And only two schools every year even need to worry about this.

I will say, however, that part of the reason I stick to an 8-team playoff rather than 16 is that the logistics of four post-season games would be more of a hardship for players and fans. Even the top seeds in the NFL don't have to play four post-season games.

Fans of March Madness have to follow their teams through three cities to reach the Final Four and nobody complains about the expense of that.

I think eight works for college football as I've outlined above and the higher-seeded teams will only need to travel twice so it is not as grueling as you might imagine. Even the advocates of a "plus one" format would be asking teams to travel twice in the same time frame so this really isn't much different.


Yes mid december...aka...exam time. I'll read the rest later. Again, I think CFB fans look at this fron one particular POV.

[Northman]

Again, I think CFB fans look at this fron one particular POV.

You mean the student body. There are a lot of CFB fans who do not attend the actual schools.

[TexanBob]

I think exams are a non issue. We have computers now. We have the internet. The concept that students have to sit behind a desk and take a written test in a room full of other students also taking written tests is like living in the 1800s. Welcome to the 21st Century. If they want to give athletes a test by cell phone, it's now doable.

The cynic can also add that the athletes aren't actually taking the tests anyway.

[Garcia Bronco]

You mean the student body. There are a lot of CFB fans who do not attend the actual schools.

I was talking about the student athletes, but I think you'll find that most of the audience at a bowl game is the student body. Not as much a problem for the actual student body. Again...to run a playoff you have to shorten the regular season. Your playoffs have to start no later than mid-nov.

[Garcia Bronco]

I think exams are a non issue. We have computers now. We have the internet. The concept that students have to sit behind a desk and take a written test in a room full of other students also taking written tests is like living in the 1800s. Welcome to the 21st Century. If they want to give athletes a test by cell phone, it's now doable.

The cynic can also add that the athletes aren't actually taking the tests anyway.

Yeah...I guess we could also implant flash memory in their head and they don't even need to go to the university at all. You have to shorten your season to run a playoff because academics over rules athletics. They are students first and athletes second.

[Northman]

I was talking about the student athletes, but I think you'll find that most of the audience at a bowl game is the student body. Not as much a problem for the actual student body. Again...to run a playoff you have to shorten the regular season. Your playoffs have to start no later than mid-nov.

When do the exams usually start for College? The Bowl games dont get started until Dec 15th or so. I would just do all the games after the second week of December.

[missingnumber7]

Playoffs aren't always a perfect system, then there would be an argument on how you get in and seeded, and the BCS would say look we could help.

Look at the FCS this year...there will be 2 undefeated teams that won't be in the playoffs, North Dakota State (last year of transition), and Yale (Ivy league doesn't participate in post season football)

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Playoffs will never decide which team is the best in the country, just who happens to go on a lucky streak. Look what normally happens in the basketball and hockey torunaments.

[Garcia Bronco]

When do the exams usually start for College? The Bowl games dont get started until Dec 15th or so. I would just do all the games after the second week of December.

It depends...but exam time can run from the week after TG to december 18th.

[TexanBob]

They are students first and athletes second.

:rofl: How quaint. You must not have come from a "football factory" school. At those schools, most are athletes first and all the school cares about is that they win on Saturdays and stay out of the back of police cars.

[Garcia Bronco]

:rofl: How quaint. You must not have come from a "football factory" school. At those schools, most are athletes first and all the school cares about is that they win on Saturdays and stay out of the back of police cars.

I wouldn't call Virginia Tech a footbal factory, but many are in the NFL. I even went to high school with many, and it was the same at either place. Academics before Athletics. The NCAA also requires it and the school's absolutely care.

These are some all of the NFL guys I went to high school with, and well as all the other from my school that have played in the NFL. You'll get a chuckle out of a few I am sure.

http://www.forkunion.com/athletics/nfl-alumni.html

The guys I was there with include:

Eddie George(Senior and PG), Jim Druckinmiller(PG), Dexter Coakley(PG), Ricky Dudley(PG), Roman Oben(PG)


Others you might know:

Vinny Testaverde, Plaxico Burress, Ernest Wilford, Ken Brown(Broncos), Darren Drozdov(Broncos), Don Majkowski, Chris Perry, Mike Quick


Like I said though...many are looking at this like football fans, and not exactly weighing in all the factors when they start talking about playoff plans

[Crushaholic]

As it is with most years, the regular season is working itself out. We may still have controversy, but the national title picture is more clear with Oregon dropping out of the race...

[Kaylore]

I don't think college will be able to do a playoff system because of the bowl money and the fact that they're students and you can't cram a playoff bracket into the end of an already long season where students are trying to go to classes and sometimes work. I would support the top four teams playing for the top tier, but no more than a two tier bracket would be able to work.

[fido]

they could do a playoff very easily, as far as not being able too, that is just bunk. DII has one as does DIII. Win your conference and you are in, everyone else goes bowling. Simple. The BCS is just crap, utah didn't get a shot, boise didn't, and neither will hawaii. The bcs is just a click, and they will not allow any 'foreign' team to invade the NC game.