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dragondawg
11-08-2007, 06:18 AM
ENGLEWOOD — Jim Bates was donning thick, black sunglasses that would have made Bono proud as he addressed the media after Wednesday's walk- through.

Maybe the future's so bright he had to wear those shades.

Certainly, the past eight games have shed light on a variety of problems for the head of the Broncos' erratic, 26th-rated defense.

But there are eight games left in an AFC West division race that still is up for grabs. And Bates insisted he hasn't abandoned hope of escaping the darkness during the next 1 1/2 months.

"We have to just put practices together and games together," Bates said.

That sounds fine, if coordination hadn't been such a big issue in the season's opening half in the first place.

Ask about the defense's problems and inevitably the answer will include some version of players not executing their responsibilities or a couple defenders being out of place, throwing off the entire scheme.

But after a 44-7 loss Sunday, Broncos cornerback Dré Bly suggested it's time to name names; if not publicly, within the framework of the defensive meeting room to get to the heart of the matter and hasten the improvement before the season slips away.

"At this point, it's what we need to start doing — singling guys out," Bly said. "And singling them out in front of the team so the rest of the team can see who's doing what and who's not."

That process might already have begun as the Broncos (3-5) prepare for their trip to Kansas City to play the Chiefs (4-4).

Defensive end Elvis Dumervil said the practice of tough love already is "definitely changing," and had to, given the stakes.

"It should have always been like that," Dumervil said. "It's just being accountable to your teammates and manning-up to your responsibilities. If that's been put more in the light, that's good. But it should have been that way since Day One."

On the field, there are items that have been on the to-do list right from the jump, even with the personnel turnover that has only four defenders in the same starting spots as last year.

And there has been only sporadic achievement in many areas. The failures of the NFL's bottom- ranked run defense, rising third- down percentages (47 percent) and creating stops inside the 20-yard line currently are relevant.

But it's the simple things, such as getting substitution packages on the field in the proper manner, that still are occurring that have made this particular defense so maddening to coaches and fans and given pause about the group's ability to institute a quick turnaround.

The Broncos were penalized twice for having 12 men on the field, had 10 on defense for another play and had a player sprinting on the field while the ball was snapped in the loss to Green Bay.

And Sunday at Detroit, defensive tackle Sam Adams was jogging off the field as the Lions opted to pull the field-goal unit and go for it on fourth down, although cornerback Champ Bailey was the one called for offsides. The mistake kept a scoring drive alive.

"It's inexcusable and we take total blame," Bates said. "We have to clean that up. That's absolutely uncalled for. . . . It shouldn't be happening at the beginning of the season, let alone the seventh or eighth game."

Getting the personnel onto the field in cleaner fashion has been an emphasis this week.

Another has been eliminating big pass plays. Green Bay two weeks ago got both its touchdowns on passes longer than 78 yards. Detroit had four 20-yard throws, including consecutive 46- and 49-yarders for a two-play, 95-yard drive.

"You can't do that in this league and win football games," Bates said.

Nor can the Broncos continue to give quarterbacks in strong passing offenses the kind of time they have been giving them.

The Broncos have had one sack in each of the past two games. Bates singled out Dumervil's effort against the Lions, but with the rest of the group unable to provide a consistent push, the team added three defensive linemen to the roster Tuesday and hopes to hit on at least one for the stretch.

If the message about individual accountability doesn't get the point across, those roster moves, which pared one-time defensive regulars Amon Gordon and Curome Cox from the team, might get the point across in more direct fashion that the bottom 10 in the NFL rankings in 11 categories won't be tolerated.

"There's responsibility on every one of us. And if we feel we can upgrade, we're always going to (try)," Bates said.

The Broncos have attempted to tweak the defensive system to fix the various weaknesses. The past few weeks have brought more eight-man defensive fronts in an attempt to slow the run.

Safety Hamza Abdullah was added to the backfield on passing downs to add range in coverage. There has been more man-free and three-deep coverages.

There also are signs the team is being less rigid about employing a lock-and-occupy approach up front, opting for a more attack-oriented mode.

"That's a great thing because I feel we have a lot of playmakers, and if guys just go out there and play ball, I think it's going to be beneficial to us," Dumervil said.

The Chiefs have had nearly as many struggles on offense as the Broncos on defense this season, so this is a litmus-test game for both clubs.

Kansas City ranks 30th in total yards, 30th in rushing yards per game and 29th in third-down efficiency and likely won't have running back Larry Johnson available Sunday.

"We've played well at times — the Buffalo game, the Oakland game, the Pittsburgh game. We dominated. We forced turnovers. We got sacks," Bly said.

"So you look at what we've done in the games we've won, that should be a motivator to the defense to try to get things ironed out and as consistent as we can. And if we play like we played in those games, we're one of the best defenses. When we're doing what we're supposed to do and executing the defense, this team is very good."

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/nfl/article/0,2777,DRMN_23918_5741862,00.html

521 1N5
11-08-2007, 06:36 AM
"We've played well at times — the Buffalo game, the Oakland game, the Pittsburgh game. We dominated. We forced turnovers. We got sacks," Bly said.

Dominated Dre? Really? ::)

Hogan11
11-08-2007, 06:54 AM
"We've played well at times — the Buffalo game, the Oakland game, the Pittsburgh game. We dominated. We forced turnovers. We got sacks," Bly said.

Dominated Dre? Really? ::)

Well, when you consider the D's performance in the SD & DET games, it may just appear that way to him..

Crushaholic
11-08-2007, 10:12 AM
Bly's on to something. Singling guys out is a good thing. Let's try this. Dre Bly...

Los Broncos
11-08-2007, 10:45 AM
He may need to take off his sunglasses to see what our defense has done.

We just dont have the d-line or lb's here.

defenseman
11-08-2007, 10:54 AM
peer group pressure can be a good thing. Attacking individuals will determine whether or not some are "team" players or not. Need to weed out the ones who are not...dman

*Can't let it get out of hand though. It's gotta be done the correct way.

Natedogg
11-08-2007, 11:08 AM
Good article from the News. I'd like to see who get's "singled."

broncofan2438
11-08-2007, 11:26 AM
Wow, more mess

Atlas
11-08-2007, 11:59 AM
Ask about the defense's problems and inevitably the answer will include some version of players not executing their responsibilities or a couple defenders being out of place, throwing off the entire scheme.

I disagree with that. The defense hasn't been bad a couple of plays they have just been plain bad almost all year. They have given up lots of yards on the ground and very long drives.. It hasn't just been a couple of plays like he is saying.

Mabe he needs to watch some film???

HorseHead
11-08-2007, 12:06 PM
Dre' wants to "out" people:

I'll out the following and in no particular order:

The guy who played "Doogie Howser"

Merv Griffin

Big Gay Al

Bob's Your Information Minister

broncofan2438
11-08-2007, 12:10 PM
Are any of the new players going to play this weekend?

Mediator12
11-08-2007, 12:19 PM
I disagree with that. The defense hasn't been bad a couple of plays they have just been plain bad almost all year. They have given up lots of yards on the ground and very long drives.. It hasn't just been a couple of plays like he is saying.

Mabe he needs to watch some film???

A lot of those yards have come from big plays though atlas, and most of the time big plays are the results of mistakes. They have been good most plays, but that does not cut it in the NFL. They have to be consistent and eliminate the big plays. That is what he is talking about.

Think of it this way, over 50% of Favre's passing yardage and both TD's came on two big plays. Eliminate just one of those plays and most likely DEN wins that game. Eliminate both and they are almost gauranteed a victory.

Against DET, they were not as porous but allowed way too many big plays on BOTH sides of the ball. The yardage in that game was very close, but the score reflected the lack of playmaking by DEN and the playmaking of DET. DET is nowhere near that good of a team, but they certainly made all kinds of plays versus DEN somehow.

They have to stop screwing up and giving games away. They would be over .500 if they just cleaned up the lack of discipline and executed what they were supposed to do. I just wonder HOW they intend to fix this, because what they have doing to this point has not come close to working. I hope Bates figures that out quickly.

PRBronco
11-08-2007, 12:20 PM
I'm afraid I might not like dre very much :( I wish he would stfu and play like he did vs. pittsburgh.

broncsyanks
11-08-2007, 12:36 PM
if this is true what bates is saying then----

when does he take responsibility for taking a top 6 defense and letting it turn into a 27th:? just a quick point to bring out. we had more interceptions and now they throw to champs side because of the defense. i also remember hearing the announcers talk about how mike martz is really confusing bates in regards to his defense because they cannot bring the right men on the field to play defense. when does he own up to this teams responsibility? also mike invest in an offense please. henry is now pathetic at this point. how long til we hear the name priest holmes running the ball down our throats again this week because our defense cannot stop the run, oh yeah it has nothng to do with bates. yeah right

Natedogg
11-08-2007, 01:01 PM
Well... Let's "out" some defensive players! What else are internet message boards for?!

I'll start with the usual suspect, Nick Ferguson! I'm not an expert, and cant watch game film, but on al ot of the big run plays I see him out somehow taking himself out of the play -sometimes, running into another defender, sometimes picking the wrong hole-- Also, It looks to me like he can't cover.

If I'm wrong, tell me.

If not, let's point more fingers. It really is cathartic.

broncosteven
11-08-2007, 01:11 PM
Bly's on to something. Singling guys out is a good thing. Let's try this. Dre Bly...

I agree, I think I am liking Elvis more and Dre less as time goes on.

Elvis and Champ and maybe Lynch are the only men on the D at this time. I think Thomas is servicable and Moss was trying. Only need 8-9 men on this D and they could turn it around.

bpc
11-08-2007, 01:16 PM
Dre is talking way too much for what he has done on the field. He just needs to shut up and make more plays.

This is like Ian talking about what the defense needs to do better... or better yet enlisting Philip Rivers opinion on it.

We are in a very sad state right now.

broncosteven
11-08-2007, 01:33 PM
A lot of those yards have come from big plays though atlas, and most of the time big plays are the results of mistakes. They have been good most plays, but that does not cut it in the NFL. They have to be consistent and eliminate the big plays. That is what he is talking about.

Think of it this way, over 50% of Favre's passing yardage and both TD's came on two big plays. Eliminate just one of those plays and most likely DEN wins that game. Eliminate both and they are almost gauranteed a victory.

Against DET, they were not as porous but allowed way too many big plays on BOTH sides of the ball. The yardage in that game was very close, but the score reflected the lack of playmaking by DEN and the playmaking of DET. DET is nowhere near that good of a team, but they certainly made all kinds of plays versus DEN somehow.

They have to stop screwing up and giving games away. They would be over .500 if they just cleaned up the lack of discipline and executed what they were supposed to do. I just wonder HOW they intend to fix this, because what they have doing to this point has not come close to working. I hope Bates figures that out quickly.


Bad things happen to bad teams, good things happen to good teams.

BAD TEAM/Coaching: Denver finally gets a stop in 1st 1/2 forcing a punt and the kick is not fair caught and bounces out at the 4. There are about 20 other bad plays from last week.

GOOD TEAM/Coaching: Patsy's down by 10 with 7+ min Marcia launches the best pass of the night and it is caught inside the 10 and they score quickly just as they needed to in order to win the game. They overcame bad calls and 2 turnovers to win, forcing 2 turnovers one to ice the game.

Until the Broncos can do the fundamentals it is going to be hard to watch.

That One Guy
11-08-2007, 02:28 PM
Oh come on... that punt hit around the 4 and kicked right, there's no way he could've anticipating it going out of bounds. Notice, he fair caught the next one to be safe.

You wanna point at bad coaching, there's plenty of opportunities. These guys aren't superhuman though, to say he should've known that kick was going out and done something about it is absurd.

broncocalijohn
11-08-2007, 02:31 PM
So is anyone missing our Browncos? Seems that group did us well into the 2005 season.

Mediator12
11-09-2007, 02:05 PM
So is anyone missing our Browncos? Seems that group did us well into the 2005 season.

NO. Not at all. They were very inadequate as well forcing the cover Zero blitz scheme to get any type of pressure at all on the QB. Plus, they were very average at playing the run as well. That forced DEN's hand to play extremely risky the whole rest of the season and it worked until they blew 5 INT's versus PIT in the AFCC game.


The worst thing that has happened to this team is the Now 35+ DL on the roster since 2003 and no more than one who has been here since 2005. No chemistry, no consistency, no effort= no produciton from the front four. Seriously, Dumervil is the ONLY guy not immediately replaceable on the DL right now. Hopefully, the 3 rookies will elevate themselves to being better than that. However, it is still way too early to tell about how they progress mentally at this level.

Swedish Extrovert
11-09-2007, 03:28 PM
It's interesting to see how players respond when facing adversity. Marshall and Bly are especially the special.

summerdenver
11-09-2007, 03:28 PM
Am 950 is reporting that Broncos have released Rice. I don't have enough posts to start a thread so posting it here.

Triplelefthook
11-09-2007, 03:32 PM
did anyone hear on 950 the other morning that Shanahan called out everyone on the team at Dove Valley and pointed out to all of them what they are doing wrong... going to the film to point out to each of them blown assignments, plays where they were dogging it, or plays they just screwed up altogether?

apparently Lepsis got it the hardest

yavoon
11-09-2007, 03:41 PM
NO. Not at all. They were very inadequate as well forcing the cover Zero blitz scheme to get any type of pressure at all on the QB. Plus, they were very average at playing the run as well. That forced DEN's hand to play extremely risky the whole rest of the season and it worked until they blew 5 INT's versus PIT in the AFCC game.


The worst thing that has happened to this team is the Now 35+ DL on the roster since 2003 and no more than one who has been here since 2005. No chemistry, no consistency, no effort= no produciton from the front four. Seriously, Dumervil is the ONLY guy not immediately replaceable on the DL right now. Hopefully, the 3 rookies will elevate themselves to being better than that. However, it is still way too early to tell about how they progress mentally at this level.

some ppl got SO much crap for disliking the browncos.

Cito Pelon
11-09-2007, 09:10 PM
did anyone hear on 950 the other morning that Shanahan called out everyone on the team at Dove Valley and pointed out to all of them what they are doing wrong... going to the film to point out to each of them blown assignments, plays where they were dogging it, or plays they just screwed up altogether?

apparently Lepsis got it the hardest

Yeah, 950 had a lively discussion about that "could have heard a pin drop" team meeting. Lots of turmoil in Broncoville this week, as there should be. When you get your ass-kicked at Detroit and SD came to your house and did it a couple games ago, that's gonna happen. Some calling out, some blowing off steam, some soul-searching, that's gonna happen.

Elvis - "It should have always been like that," Dumervil said. "It's just being accountable to your teammates and manning-up to your responsibilities. If that's been put more in the light, that's good. But it should have been that way since Day One."

There's been plenty of discussion about how it seems the players aren't getting "coached up", how there are coaches that adjust their scheme to make the most out of the players that they have, rather than wasting a season by trying to fit round pegs into square holes.

My opinion on this season is that the coaching staff has done a poor job of making sure they are putting their best players into the proper position to make plays. On O it seems like ShanaDinger have played the chess match fairly well until they hit the opponents 35-30, then they go into "we'll take what the D gives us mode." I don't like that. This team has to score 24+ every game to win.

On D, Bates and his gang have played vanilla, but really I don't think the D personnel can handle much of anything. The nickle and dime packages can't make anything happen anymore than the base 4-3. I'd just like to see some TO's from the D right now. As much as they're getting run on, you'd think there would be some fumbles caused. Bad D. They should be getting spanked individually because they're not getting TO's. The team is at minus-eight right now in TO ratio, and that's a recipe for well, a 3-5 record.

If the team finishes at minus-16 in TO ratio, that's probably gonna be a 6-10 record for the season.

If the D gets some TO's at KC, I think it's a win.

lex
11-09-2007, 10:29 PM
did anyone hear on 950 the other morning that Shanahan called out everyone on the team at Dove Valley and pointed out to all of them what they are doing wrong... going to the film to point out to each of them blown assignments, plays where they were dogging it, or plays they just screwed up altogether?

apparently Lepsis got it the hardest


Good. And that confirms what Ive been carrying on about in Lepsis no longer getting it done. I also specifically identified Lepsis in the Pittsburgh game. Our tackles are horrid.

Hogan11
11-10-2007, 03:08 AM
Yeah, 950 had a lively discussion about that "could have heard a pin drop" team meeting. Lots of turmoil in Broncoville this week, as there should be. When you get your ass-kicked at Detroit and SD came to your house and did it a couple games ago, that's gonna happen. Some calling out, some blowing off steam, some soul-searching, that's gonna happen.

Elvis - "It should have always been like that," Dumervil said. "It's just being accountable to your teammates and manning-up to your responsibilities. If that's been put more in the light, that's good. But it should have been that way since Day One."

What is this? ??? No jokes to keep the mood light and the players loose?? What the hell is Shanahan thinking!! He's lost it! We are doomed!! ::)

Doggcow
11-10-2007, 05:06 AM
Get off Bly's case, he won us the pittsburgh game and has played solid. The pick in the oakland game was good too.

So soon you people forget. Christ, you could be bashing Bailey with you logic, its just a joke.

eddie mac
11-10-2007, 06:16 AM
NO. Not at all. They were very inadequate as well forcing the cover Zero blitz scheme to get any type of pressure at all on the QB. Plus, they were very average at playing the run as well. That forced DEN's hand to play extremely risky the whole rest of the season and it worked until they blew 5 INT's versus PIT in the AFCC game.


The worst thing that has happened to this team is the Now 35+ DL on the roster since 2003 and no more than one who has been here since 2005. No chemistry, no consistency, no effort= no produciton from the front four. Seriously, Dumervil is the ONLY guy not immediately replaceable on the DL right now. Hopefully, the 3 rookies will elevate themselves to being better than that. However, it is still way too early to tell about how they progress mentally at this level.

To a certain extent I disagree with that on at least 2 counts.

Ekuban was our most consistent D'Lineman over the past few seasons and IMHO we'd be a lot better off if he hadn't of got injured this offseason.

When Courtney was fit and well (I know it wasn't that often) we were a hell of a different team against the run.

If those 2 players were wearing the Orange this season and playing there's no way our D would be as bad at present.