FOXSPORTs.com New article: Time to reconsider Shanahan the GM

[rovolution]

Considering all the debate here about Shannys GM record, i decided to post this article i just found.



http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7415662



Injuries, an inexperienced starting quarterback and a porous run defense have contributed to Denver's 3-5 record.

The biggest problem, though, starts up top.

Mike Shanahan is an offensive genius and Hall of Fame-caliber head coach. But as a personnel guru, Shanahan should have gotten fired long ago.

This off-season, maybe that will happen.

Broncos owner Pat Bowlen needs to reassess an organizational structure that gives Shanahan total control over roster moves. Even if it rallies to win the mediocre AFC West, Denver is showing the same cracks perennial winners like San Francisco, Miami and Green Bay did before their slides began.

The Broncos could easily be 0-8, having won all three games on the final play. Two of the losses — including last Sunday's 44-7 drubbing in Detroit — were the most lopsided since Shanahan became coach in 1995.


Poor free-agent decisions and drafts are beginning to cripple the franchise that Shanahan built.

Shanahan could do no wrong when constructing a mini-dynasty. Between 1996 and 1998, six free-agent signings reached the Pro Bowl. A seventh selection (left tackle Tony Jones) came via a trade with Baltimore. Shanahan also astutely identified other talented starters and backups, augmenting a stacked roster from previous drafts. The result was two Super Bowl titles.

But Shanahan lost his Midas touch — and Hall of Fame quarterback John Elway — shortly after the second title in 1998. Denver is one of the NFL's busiest teams every year during the off-season, yet only two veteran acquisitions this decade (safety John Lynch and cornerback Champ Bailey) have reached the Pro Bowl.

Admittedly, I thought Denver was poised for a Super Bowl run this season and even told Shanahan so in August. But some of Denver's 2007 moves were as bad as my prediction.

Running back Travis Henry faces a year-long NFL suspension should his appeal of a failed drug test be denied. Dre' Bly is being paid like a shut-down cornerback but hasn't made that kind of impact. Daniel Graham is being used primarily as a blocking tight end, a role that doesn't justify giving him $20 million in guaranteed money. Simeon Rice is quickly joining Denver's ample list of big-name defensive line busts.

Judging by their injury problems, Denver stuck too long with mainstays like wide receiver Rod Smith, center Tom Nalen and Lynch. Five of Denver's seven players on injured reserve are 30-somethings. Ten starters and both specialists are at least 29 years old.

Denver's drafts haven't produced many viable replacements. During the past five years, first-day choices were squandered on players like wide receiver Darius Watts, linebacker Terry Pierce and running back Maurice Clarett. None of the team's seven first-round picks between 1996 and 2003 are on the roster. Neither are any of the 18 picks from 2002 and 2003. Only four of 16 remain from the Classes of 2004 and 2005 (cornerback Darrent Williams, killed this off-season, falls in this group).

Shanahan's failings in this regard are damning. Yet it speaks volumes for Shanahan the coach that Denver was 51-29 the previous five seasons with one AFC Championship game appearance.

Scapegoating Shanahan's underlings for these problems is easy, but the issues run deeper than the front office. One NFL general manager said Shanahan gives some assistant coaches significant say in veteran personnel acquisitions. This can be dangerous, especially when assistants become blind to player weaknesses that a more objective scout can see.

There also is a sense among those close to the team that Shanahan isn't fond of dissenting internal opinions about players he becomes enamored with. They say Shanahan's intimidating demeanor affects constructive give-and-take discussions.


Unlike in Seattle with Mike Holmgren, I strongly doubt Shanahan would willingly cede his front office power to concentrate exclusively on Xs and Os. Shanahan is a control freak and will never forget his miserable head coaching experience being subservient to Oakland Raiders owner Al Davis in the late 1980s.

Bowlen has steadfastly stood by Shanahan in tough times before. Shanahan also can point to having drafted quarterback Jay Cutler as hope for the future. If he continues to develop, Cutler can help Denver more quickly regain its status among the NFL's elite.

But — as loathe as Shanahan is to say the word — there is substantial rebuilding looming. Ultimately, Bowlen must take a long look at whether a coach nicknamed "The Mastermind" should be masterminding that effort.

[bronclvr]

Do you ever get the feeling that these so called "writers" just troll Bulletin Boards for substance then regurgitate what they've read?

[Rulon Velvet Jones]

Do it. And give Cowher some better talent for next season.

[HEAV]

Considering all the debate here about Shannys GM record, i decided to post this article i just found.



http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7415662



Injuries, an inexperienced starting quarterback and a porous run defense have contributed to Denver's 3-5 record.

The biggest problem, though, starts up top.

Mike Shanahan is an offensive genius and Hall of Fame-caliber head coach. But as a personnel guru, Shanahan should have gotten fired long ago.

This off-season, maybe that will happen.

Broncos owner Pat Bowlen needs to reassess an organizational structure that gives Shanahan total control over roster moves. Even if it rallies to win the mediocre AFC West, Denver is showing the same cracks perennial winners like San Francisco, Miami and Green Bay did before their slides began.

The Broncos could easily be 0-8, having won all three games on the final play. Two of the losses — including last Sunday's 44-7 drubbing in Detroit — were the most lopsided since Shanahan became coach in 1995.


Poor free-agent decisions and drafts are beginning to cripple the franchise that Shanahan built.

Shanahan could do no wrong when constructing a mini-dynasty. Between 1996 and 1998, six free-agent signings reached the Pro Bowl. A seventh selection (left tackle Tony Jones) came via a trade with Baltimore. Shanahan also astutely identified other talented starters and backups, augmenting a stacked roster from previous drafts. The result was two Super Bowl titles.

But Shanahan lost his Midas touch — and Hall of Fame quarterback John Elway — shortly after the second title in 1998. Denver is one of the NFL's busiest teams every year during the off-season, yet only two veteran acquisitions this decade (safety John Lynch and cornerback Champ Bailey) have reached the Pro Bowl.

Admittedly, I thought Denver was poised for a Super Bowl run this season and even told Shanahan so in August. But some of Denver's 2007 moves were as bad as my prediction.

Running back Travis Henry faces a year-long NFL suspension should his appeal of a failed drug test be denied. Dre' Bly is being paid like a shut-down cornerback but hasn't made that kind of impact. Daniel Graham is being used primarily as a blocking tight end, a role that doesn't justify giving him $20 million in guaranteed money. Simeon Rice is quickly joining Denver's ample list of big-name defensive line busts.

Judging by their injury problems, Denver stuck too long with mainstays like wide receiver Rod Smith, center Tom Nalen and Lynch. Five of Denver's seven players on injured reserve are 30-somethings. Ten starters and both specialists are at least 29 years old.

Denver's drafts haven't produced many viable replacements. During the past five years, first-day choices were squandered on players like wide receiver Darius Watts, linebacker Terry Pierce and running back Maurice Clarett. None of the team's seven first-round picks between 1996 and 2003 are on the roster. Neither are any of the 18 picks from 2002 and 2003. Only four of 16 remain from the Classes of 2004 and 2005 (cornerback Darrent Williams, killed this off-season, falls in this group).

Shanahan's failings in this regard are damning. Yet it speaks volumes for Shanahan the coach that Denver was 51-29 the previous five seasons with one AFC Championship game appearance.

Scapegoating Shanahan's underlings for these problems is easy, but the issues run deeper than the front office. One NFL general manager said Shanahan gives some assistant coaches significant say in veteran personnel acquisitions. This can be dangerous, especially when assistants become blind to player weaknesses that a more objective scout can see.

There also is a sense among those close to the team that Shanahan isn't fond of dissenting internal opinions about players he becomes enamored with. They say Shanahan's intimidating demeanor affects constructive give-and-take discussions.


Unlike in Seattle with Mike Holmgren, I strongly doubt Shanahan would willingly cede his front office power to concentrate exclusively on Xs and Os. Shanahan is a control freak and will never forget his miserable head coaching experience being subservient to Oakland Raiders owner Al Davis in the late 1980s.

Bowlen has steadfastly stood by Shanahan in tough times before. Shanahan also can point to having drafted quarterback Jay Cutler as hope for the future. If he continues to develop, Cutler can help Denver more quickly regain its status among the NFL's elite.

But — as loathe as Shanahan is to say the word — there is substantial rebuilding looming. Ultimately, Bowlen must take a long look at whether a coach nicknamed "The Mastermind" should be masterminding that effort.





:-X

[Northman]

Shanahan should of given up GM duties 5 years ago.

[Tom H.]

Call up John Beake.

[orinjkrush]

dig ralston out of the grave

[Malcontent]

This piece doesnt even mention the poor coaching hires. Heimerding-dong, Bates motel, etc..

[wolf754life]

time for him to go

[fontaine]

Scapegoating Shanahan's underlings for these problems is easy, but the issues run deeper than the front office. One NFL general manager said Shanahan gives some assistant coaches significant say in veteran personnel acquisitions. This can be dangerous, especially when assistants become blind to player weaknesses that a more objective scout can see.

Wait a goddamn minute. So on one hand Shanahan the GM sucks because he has total control but at the same time he gets bashed for taking in opinions from assistant coaches?

Like I've been saying Shanahan doesn't make all and every decision on his own. He does a lot of delegating to his own coaches but when we don't get overnite studs like on the OL or DL, all the simpletons come out on a witch hunt and blame him?

Shanahan's failings in this regard are damning. Yet it speaks volumes for Shanahan the coach that Denver was 51-29 the previous five seasons with one AFC Championship game appearance.

And that ladies and germs is the bottom line. The man can flat out coach AND win. One injury riddled season isn't enough to convince me that he's lost it. I would stack up that record against ANYBODY in the league.

[eddie mac]

It's an ever decreasing circle.

This year for example we took what I thought was a very limited risk on Travis Henry. Was Mike to know the biggest dumbass in football would totally **** the team a few weeks before his probation was up???

As for Graham, that signing doesn't look to good at the minute because the running game sucks. If our star back was healthy and fully focused plus our O-Line was 100%, Graham would be getting props for being part of an excellent Denver running game.

Bly's in the same boat. We all knew he was a gambler but he's getting no help at present because we're doing everything to stop the run whilst leaving him 1 on 1 with the opponents best receiver, plus he has an injury and we've no decent fit safeties.

Also the piece about Shanahan listening to his assistants about potential targets. Why shouldn't he do that. These guys have to work with the players. In some cases they've worked with them before and I'm probably only one of a few that thought the Brown's experiment worked to some degree especially in 05 and the early part of 06. Ekuban turned out to be a pretty decent player, Warren wasn't as bad as some make out on here and Myers was better than anything we have up front at the moment.

Shanahan is a great HC but in 07 he and the Denver Broncos as an organisation have had everything that could go wrong go wrong.

[Taco John]

Shanahan should of given up GM duties 5 years ago.

Actually, he did...

Sundquist is our GM. Shanahan is Vice President of Football Operations.

That's the way it should be.

[dbfan21]

Wait a goddamn minute. So on one hand Shanahan the GM sucks because he has total control but at the same time he gets bashed for taking in opinions from assistant coaches?

Like I've been saying Shanahan doesn't make all and every decision on his own. He does a lot of delegating to his own coaches but when we don't get overnite studs like on the OL or DL, all the simpletons come out on a witch hunt and blame him?



And that ladies and germs is the bottom line. The man can flat out coach AND win. One injury riddled season isn't enough to convince me that he's lost it. I would stack up that record against ANYBODY in the league.

BINGO! I totally agree with you on this. I have read through several threads about Shanahan's future in Denver. It's amazing how much people complain about him during the tough times, but once the off season rolls around, he will return to the status of aggresive genious.

I am sure we could break down the draft history of a dozen other teams and they will have the same results. The draft is a crapshoot. You take a gamble on a guy who you think will help the team, but injuries, egos and drive-by-shootings (RIP D-Will) get in the way.

No coach has more wins since '95 than Shanahan. We were one game from the Super Bowl 2 years ago with a QB that most of you hated. Give Mike a break for a little while...let's see how the rest of the season plays out, then we can start assessing the future.

The fun of this board is being able to vent, speak your mind, etc, but let's keep it in perpspective and not look a gift horse in the mouth. We are fortunate to have Shanahan as the head coach and VP.

I think we wouldn't have won two SB's if it weren't for him.

Go Broncos!!

[telluride]

Wait a goddamn minute. So on one hand Shanahan the GM sucks because he has total control but at the same time he gets bashed for taking in opinions from assistant coaches?

Like I've been saying Shanahan doesn't make all and every decision on his own. He does a lot of delegating to his own coaches but when we don't get overnite studs like on the OL or DL, all the simpletons come out on a witch hunt and blame him?



And that ladies and germs is the bottom line. The man can flat out coach AND win. One injury riddled season isn't enough to convince me that he's lost it. I would stack up that record against ANYBODY in the league.

No, this is the bottom line:

Denver's drafts haven't produced many viable replacements. During the past five years, first-day choices were squandered on players like wide receiver Darius Watts, linebacker Terry Pierce and running back Maurice Clarett. None of the team's seven first-round picks between 1996 and 2003 are on the roster. Neither are any of the 18 picks from 2002 and 2003. Only four of 16 remain from the Classes of 2004 and 2005 (cornerback Darrent Williams, killed this off-season, falls in this group).

[broncofan2438]

As sad as it may be, it might be a good idea. He just seams worn out

[Mediator12]

This article presumes that there is a better way to run this team and I believe it hits the nail on the head to that regard. However, every NFL team is a franchise and they all do things differently. I have had the priviledge to have had access to 5 different NFL organizations and they are all operated very differently. At one end of the spectrum, some are indifferent and very susceptible to attempts at short ranges fixes. And at the other end, some are world class in every aspect of their business. However, most try and look the part without really being a good organization at all.

That being said, DEN needs to overhaul their total operations philosophy IMHO. What had been very successful in the mid 90's is no longer a strong model of success in the late 2000's. They need to evolve along with the times and get up to date. Mike has been overworked trying to micromanage too much for too long. His on field performance with the offense has shown evidence of this the last two years. This is a pathetic offense and the gamplanning that is his trademark has been awful the last two seasons. They are no longer getting leads and playing from the front.

And, to add insult to injury literally, he has always relied on Veteran leadership to motivate the team and been a poor external motivator. This is his greatest weakness as a head coach.

The DEN current state of affairs has magnified this weakness to the point where other teams smell blood in the water and are attacking them ruthlessly. Losing a game to the LIONS that bad is so wrong. They have been the luckiest team in the NFL all year long but winning by that margin was nowhere near just luck. Twice already, Mike has played the "I did not have the team prepared" card. BS. BFS. HOW IS THAT AN ACCEPTABLE EXCUSE? The coaches primary purpose is to have their team prepared to play their opponent. That is like a commanding officer in combat saying post battle that he did not have the troops prepared to fight. All they do in the army is prepare to fight! Why the hell is he spending 100 hours a week at Dove Valley to NOT prepare his team!

The simple answer is the coaches AND players did not get the job done in teaching, learning, adapting, overcoming, and winning every play. What they have done this year is seriously underachieve their abilities. They are nowhere near the most talented team in the NFL, do not get me wrong, but they have always been a mid range talented team post Elway. Yet, as the article states they have been very successful overall with that level of talent. This is one of the most "talented" teams in that time frame IMHO, but they are not making that talent execute on the field with any consistency whatsoever.

In an instant, this team has gone from formidable to a winnable game for anyone's schedule. The way they have done things post Superbowls needs to change. They have already made some necessary steps by having much better drafts the last three years. The next step is to give Mike some much needed rest from Player personnel decisions and allow him to coach the players he has better.

IMHO, Sundquist is not the guy to take that role. He needs to move on and a guy like Chris Truelove needs an opportunity to be the next GM. Most people around here do not know who he is, but he has been the pro player scout for DEN for awhile and with them for 13 years I believe. I have spent time with Chris in INDY at the combine and he has a great eye for talent. He is young and with something to prove. And before everyone rips him on some of the FA acquisitions, he did not necessarily endorse any of them. Remember this: "There also is a sense among those close to the team that Shanahan isn't fond of dissenting internal opinions about players he becomes enamored with. They say Shanahan's intimidating demeanor affects constructive give-and-take discussions."

Hopefully, Mike stays as the coach. There is none better at what he does in the NFL IMHO. The problem is he has become weary by being stretched too thin with responsibility over the last 13 years. He also needs to get someone in there to help train them better mentally. That includes the Whole FO, the players, and the coaches.

The Problem is and always will be his ego and controlling tendencies. I fear he will step down due to the strain and not ask for help. That is not the man he is. He has become so set in his ways he can not see the forrest because of the trees. I hope he gets the help, but do not bet on it.

[fontaine]

No, this is the bottom line:

Denver's drafts haven't produced many viable replacements. During the past five years, first-day choices were squandered on players like wide receiver Darius Watts, linebacker Terry Pierce and running back Maurice Clarett. None of the team's seven first-round picks between 1996 and 2003 are on the roster. Neither are any of the 18 picks from 2002 and 2003. Only four of 16 remain from the Classes of 2004 and 2005 (cornerback Darrent Williams, killed this off-season, falls in this group).

Yeah that must be right, because at the end of the regular season the win loss records don't count and playoff teams are deteremined by who drafted better right?

Hilarious!

Drafts are important but you need to get your head outta your a$$ if you think the bottom line isn't counted by wins & losses.

[Rigs11]

Yeah that must be right, because at the end of the regular season the win loss records don't count and playoff teams are deteremined by who drafted better right?

Hilarious!

Drafts are important but you need to get your head outta your a$$ if you think the bottom line isn't counted by wins & losses.

Your point is moot. Last year we sucked and we didn't have that many injuries. We were healthy early this year and we were barely winning.Shannahan won 2 superbowls 9 years ago, and it's obvious that he had one of the greatest qb's to play the game. We go 13-3 in 2005 and instead of shoring up the d line, he goes after a qb.brilliant!

[Rock Chalk]

Your point is moot. Last year we sucked and we didn't have that many injuries. We were healthy early this year and we were barely winning.Shannahan won 2 superbowls 9 years ago, and it's obvious that he had one of the greatest qb's to play the game. We go 13-3 in 2005 and instead of shoring up the d line, he goes after a qb.brilliant!

This still sticks in my craw. I get it, its Jake Plummer. No one likes him. But with a better ****ing D-line we could have went to teh superbowl.

Draftng Cutler in the long run will be a great decision I think. In the short run it ****ing killed any chance we had at being competitive for at least two or three years.

[Vegas_Bronco]

I still can't believe how much the media drubs shanny for the MO Clarett pick. Plain and simple, the media sees the Mo Clarett draft pick as negating the 2 super bowl victories! I can't stand it anymore!!!

[Garcia Bronco]

Your point is moot. Last year we sucked and we didn't have that many injuries. We were healthy early this year and we were barely winning.Shannahan won 2 superbowls 9 years ago, and it's obvious that he had one of the greatest qb's to play the game. We go 13-3 in 2005 and instead of shoring up the d line, he goes after a qb.brilliant!

Elway never played in a Super Bowl without Mike Shanahan. People forget that. Nor did Steve Young.

[fontaine]

No, this is the bottom line:

Denver's drafts haven't produced many viable replacements. During the past five years, first-day choices were squandered on players like wide receiver Darius Watts, linebacker Terry Pierce and running back Maurice Clarett. None of the team's seven first-round picks between 1996 and 2003 are on the roster. Neither are any of the 18 picks from 2002 and 2003. Only four of 16 remain from the Classes of 2004 and 2005 (cornerback Darrent Williams, killed this off-season, falls in this group).




Here's a little copy and paste job I did for all you posters like telluride that fly off the handle and pin everything on Shanahan:

New Englands's drafts haven't produced many viable replacements. During the past five years, first-day choices were squandered on players like wide receivers Chad Jackson, Bethel Johnson, CB Gus Scott and DE Marquis Hill (accidently drowned this offseason, falls into this group). None of the team's seven first-round picks between 1994 and 2000 are on the roster. Only three of 16 remain from the Classes of 2001 and 2002.

See how easy that was dumba$$. And I'm pretty sure it's all correct too.

[fontaine]

This still sticks in my craw. I get it, its Jake Plummer. No one likes him. But with a better ****ing D-line we could have went to teh superbowl.

Draftng Cutler in the long run will be a great decision I think. In the short run it ****ing killed any chance we had at being competitive for at least two or three years.

Complete and utter bullsh*t. This is a myth that gets perpetuated all the time.

In the 2006 draft the only DL in the first (ie instead of Cutler) were
Mario Williams (1st overall and out of reach)
Ngata (we could have had, decent player)
Bunkley (we could have had and so far is a complete bust)

and finally Hali, who had a decent rookie campaign.

If you think any one of these guys would have gotten us to the superbowl in their rookie season then you need the put the crack down.

[eddie mac]

Your point is moot. Last year we sucked and we didn't have that many injuries. We were healthy early this year and we were barely winning.Shannahan won 2 superbowls 9 years ago, and it's obvious that he had one of the greatest qb's to play the game. We go 13-3 in 2005 and instead of shoring up the d line, he goes after a qb.brilliant!

In actual fact you're wrong. We were 7-2 and had the best defense in the nation until injuries obliterated our safety position and the rest of the players tired towards the end of the year. In actual fact I think this team is missing Sam Brandon just as much as Al Wilson at present. His ability to match up against the best TE's in this league was a sore loss.

[eddie mac]

For every Clarett or Travis Henry or even Tatum Bell there's a TD, a Mike Anderson, a Rueben Droughns an Orlandis Gary and a Clinton Portis.

[rbackfactory80]

The funny thing is everyone wants change when things are not going right and complain when they don't see results immediately. In 05 while making the championship game they still made changes that were thought to improve the team. Denver could be like 80 percent of all the other teams in the NFL and trot out the same thing every year even though they no it wont be good enough to win it all but they see areas that need to be improved and they try to improve them. When a coach has as winning a record a Shanahan you give him the benefit of the doubt. Keep pushing for him to be replaced and you will really see mediocrity.

[HorseHead]

All excellent posts.....

There is no"wunderkind" waiting in the wings i.e. College Ranks....

The "Chin" is not the answer...

It's like the "girlfriend" scenario, you hit that "bump" in the road, that "3 year itch" (in our case, 12 year itch), and you want a new girlfriend. And then you realize, there is no one out there better than her...., sometimes you just have a bad year...Cowboy up people....

[fontaine]

Complete and utter bullsh*t. This is a myth that gets perpetuated all the time.

In the 2006 draft the only DL in the first (ie instead of Cutler) were
Mario Williams (1st overall and out of reach)
Ngata (we could have had, decent player)
Bunkley (we could have had and so far is a complete bust)

and finally Hali, who had a decent rookie campaign.

If you think any one of these guys would have gotten us to the superbowl in their rookie season then you need the put the crack down.

What's even more hilarious is when you consider if Shanahan would have drafted Bunkley like many wanted. Considering how slow his development has been, the knives would have been out for Shanahan again.

Especially when you look at the way Cutler has played and how Plummer badly tanked last year. It would have been Ed Reed vs Ashley Lelie all over again if we had not picked Cutler.

Looking back at that first round who in their right mind would have gone with Tamba Hali, Ngata, or Bunkley over Cutler?

8')

[Requiem]

Mediator, that was a good post. It's cool that you got to meet Chris at Indianapolis. Do you feel that he'd only be successful if Shanahan had some of his personnel decisions alieviated, or do you think that he's a good enough talent evaluator to push the opinions (expert) by himself and guys like Goodman and DiStefano to the forefront and have more of an impact in the decision making process with players?

Get excited for Indianapolis this year, might have some of the best prospects out there in a long-time.

[Garcia Bronco]

team is missing Sam Brandon just as much as Al Wilson at present. His ability to match up against the best TE's in this league was a sore loss.

Yep SB had htem on lock

[Swedish Extrovert]

Actually, he did...

Sundquist is our GM. Shanahan is Vice President of Football Operations.

That's the way it should be.

See, I'm under the impression that Ted Sundquist was the GM... WTF is this guy talking about...

How the **** do you write an article about something isnt true.

Thats like me writing an article about how we should pull our combat troops out of Canada. BRING THEM HOME (south of the border).

[Swedish Extrovert]

"This guy" being the sports writer... I agree with tj

[Cito Pelon]

See, I'm under the impression that Ted Sundquist was the GM... WTF is this guy talking about...

How the **** do you write an article about something isnt true.

Thats like me writing an article about how we should pull our combat troops out of Canada. BRING THEM HOME (south of the border).

Sundquist has the GM title, but unlike some GM's - correct me if I'm wrong - he doesn't have player personnel responsibility all on his shoulders. Shanny doesn't go to Sundquist and ask for input into player personnel decisions. I have a hard time visualizing Sundquist telling Shanny, "No, absolutely not." Shanny has a lot of input into how the team drafts, how they evaluate talent, who they target in FA. Sundquist is more of a contract guy, the guy that deals with the agents.

[elsid13]

Sundquist has the GM title, but unlike some GM's - correct me if I'm wrong - he doesn't have player personnel responsibility all on his shoulders. Shanny doesn't go to Sundquist and ask for input into player personnel decisions. I have a hard time visualizing Sundquist telling Shanny, "No, absolutely not." Shanny has a lot of input into how the team drafts, how they evaluate talent, who they target in FA. Sundquist is more of a contract guy, the guy that deals with the agents.

Wabbit painted a whole different picture of Sundquist on the other thread about Shanahan.

[alkemical]

Here's a question:

IF shanny found a GM who he could "trust", would he go back to just focusing on coaching?

[Kaylore]

This is pretty funny. People here are calling for Bill Cowher. The guy was seen as another Schottenheimer for more than a decade before the league gave him a trophy at the end there.

As for his personnel decisions, his draft picks - especially lately - have been pretty good. I suppose you could slam his free agent moves, but Stokely and Graham are great additions and Henry made sense on paper if not in his pants. People can rip the coaching changes too, but slowly Bates and O'Brien have done the best they could with what they've been given.

The one area our FO has struggled is with defensive talent. Guys like Ian Gold suck and we haven't drafted a pro-bowler on defense in forever. I liked the picks this year, but Bates and the FO need more than one season to turn the defense around. Maybe we will. If Crowder, Moss and Thomas bust then put me down as someone who'd like to see Shanahan give the defensive talent evaluations to someone else.

I'd like to add that Sundquist is just as culpable in this as Shanahan. The Browncos ordeal was apparently his brainchild.

[Cito Pelon]

Wabbit painted a whole different picture of Sundquist on the other thread about Shanahan.

I'll give you that. Wabbit thinks Sundquist has some power, I don't. I think Shanny runs the organization like Fidel Castro runs Cuba. I have a hard time visualizing at any point where Sundquist says to Shanny, "No way, no how I sign that guy to a contract."

[Cito Pelon]

This is pretty funny. People here are calling for Bill Cowher. The guy was seen as another Schottenheimer for more than a decade before the league gave him a trophy at the end there.

As for his personnel decisions, his draft picks - especially lately - have been pretty good. I suppose you could slam his free agent moves, but Stokely and Graham are great additions and Henry made sense on paper if not in his pants. People can rip the coaching changes too, but slowly Bates and O'Brien have done the best they could with what they've been given.

The one area our FO has struggled is with defensive talent. Guys like Ian Gold suck and we haven't drafted a pro-bowler on defense in forever. I liked the picks this year, but Bates and the FO need more than one season to turn the defense around. Maybe we will. If Crowder, Moss and Thomas bust then put me down as someone who'd like to see Shanahan give the defensive talent evaluations to someone else.

I'd like to add that Sundquist is just as culpable in this as Shanahan. The Browncos ordeal was apparently his brainchild.

First off, I have no interest in Bill Cowher, period. That is pretty funny to read that people want Cowher in Denver. Second, Cowher made many a playoff and a few AFC Title wins out of nothing, and Cowher was never compared to Marty for that reason.

Having said all that, I don't think this coaching staff is real good. On the O side, they're marginal. On the D side, they're bad. They're really bad. They can't get their units in sync, 12 men here, 10 men there, TO's burned, that's bad coaching.

O'Brien I think has the ST's ready to roll. The ST's are looking NFL caliber. The O needs a big kick in the ass because it looks like they quit last game before the game even started. You need two phases rolling to make the playoffs.

How did the Browncos "ordeal" become Sundquist's "brainchild"? That's the first I've heard of that. Sounds like baloney to me. Sundy decided to let Hayward and Berry go, so they had to sign whoever they could to replace them? Sundy decided to give Pryce the huge contract rather than franchise him? Sundquist gets his marching orders from Shanahan.

[400HZ]

First off, I have no interest in Bill Cowher, period. That is pretty funny to read that people want Cowher in Denver. Second, Cowher made many a playoff and a few AFC Title wins out of nothing, and Cowher was never compared to Marty for that reason.

Having said all that, I don't think this coaching staff is real good. On the O side, they're marginal. On the D side, they're bad. They're really bad. They can't get their units in sync, 12 men here, 10 men there, TO's burned, that's bad coaching.

O'Brien I think has the ST's ready to roll. The ST's are looking NFL caliber. The O needs a big kick in the ass because it looks like they quit last game before the game even started. You need two phases rolling to make the playoffs.

How did the Browncos "ordeal" become Sundquist's "brainchild"? That's the first I've heard of that. Sounds like baloney to me. Sundy decided to let Hayward and Berry go, so they had to sign whoever they could to replace them? Sundy decided to give Pryce the huge contract rather than franchise him? Sundquist gets his marching orders from Shanahan.

I think Cowher is lining himself up to coach in Carolina next year.

[elsid13]

How did the Browncos "ordeal" become Sundquist's "brainchild"? That's the first I've heard of that. Sounds like baloney to me. Sundy decided to let Hayward and Berry go, so they had to sign whoever they could to replace them? Sundy decided to give Pryce the huge contract rather than franchise him? Sundquist gets his marching orders from Shanahan.

There are three high profile deals that were reported as Sundquiest being the major player for making them happen

1. Portis for Champ deal. Skins appoarch him at the combine and he worked at out the logestics of the deal. Reported in post

2. the trade for Warren and Myers- once agian it was reported in the papers
that Sundquist handle the workings of the deal. I am sure the DL coach at the time help steer Shanahan desicion.

3. Warren to the Raiders.

I am sure that Sandquiest develops the deals; brings thems to Shanahan and let him make the finally desicion. But like all good military staff work there is a way to "help" your CO make the decison you want.

[LostPines]

For all of you shanahan-haters, you will be disappointed! He will be back.

[chrisp]

When the product on the field sucks so bad its hard to say that anythings OK, so I do understand why some people are saying that we need to either sack shanny or sack sundquist or radically overhaul the way the organisation runs (or all three). However, despite all that, here's what I think.

In the 90's we were fortunate with some late-round draft steals. We were also free-agent pioneers who managed to get some quality people to come and play for us.

After our superbowls however, that strategy wore thin. Other teams had wised up to the free agency game by then and started to make sure they protected people. Suddenly, where previously we could swipe prime talent from under people's noses, now most of what was available was either damaged goods or not much kop in the first place.

Its also fair to say that Shanny probably did have too much control in the early days. By 2003-2004 however, it was quite plain to see that most of our drafts and major FA acquisitions had failed to deliver.

That's about the time I think we started to make the kind of changes that people are talking about now. Shanny gave more responsibility to Sundquist, and slowly the drafts started to improve, and actually the FA picks too.

The reason for our struggles this season is, plain and simple, all the changes. We have completely overhauled the team and these guys just need to learn to play together.

Its the harder answer to accept becuase there's no magic wand that can make it all better: just patience and hard graft.

Just keep the faith and next season WILL be better.