KRIEGER: Rebuilding? Heaven, and Shanahan, forbid

[DukeWoody]

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/nfl/article/0,2777,DRMN_23918_5740000,00.html

KRIEGER: Rebuilding? Heaven, and Shanahan, forbid


Dave Krieger
email | bioNovember 5, 2007

ENGLEWOOD — Mike Shanahan wants you to know the Broncos are not rebuilding. He wants me to know. He wants the world to know.
Most of all, he wants the veterans in his locker room to know, so they aren't tempted to pack it in just yet.

Even though the interior of his offensive line is as green as the paint on the dirt in Oakland, even though he has the worst run defense in the NFL, even though his team has been outscored by 101 points in eight games, Shanahan cannot say he is rebuilding.

Nevertheless, I felt I had to ask, principally in the interest of saving Jay Cutler's life. When no other Broncos player was helping, Cutler went to visit the Rev. Leon Kelly's anti-gang program in northeast Denver last spring. By training camp, more than half a dozen teammates had followed suit. Got to like a kid like that.

Anyway, Shanahan upgraded him from a possible broken leg to "a little sore" Monday, which tells me if he can walk, they're sending him back out there Sunday in Kansas City. That could get him killed, unless Shanahan makes certain concessions to the realities of his not-rebuilding team.

During Monday's postmortem of the debacle in Detroit, Shanahan conceded that the Broncos' mistakes — turnovers, penalties, missed assignments, dropped balls — had something to do with the new guys in the lineup and the difficulty of getting them all on the same page. Only three of Sunday's 22 starters were in the same spots in the starting lineup one year ago.

"Do you think the word 'rebuilding' applies to this situation?" I asked.

"You keep on using that term, 'rebuilding,' " Shanahan said.

"That's the first time I've asked you that," I said.

"No, you did it yesterday."

"I asked if you were ready to play for next year."

"I think that's rebuilding," he said. "You're asking me the same question different ways."

Busted.

Then he turned to the other wretches, or to the television cameras, I'm not sure which. "See, he's got a way of doing that, and you can easily fall into the trap," he said.

I hope he was turning to the television cameras because the wretches were sitting there with their usual One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest glazed stares and he got no response from them. So he moved along.

"On the serious side, if you ever say that you're rebuilding, I think you're trying to give yourself an excuse for not having success right now. That's my definition of people using the term 'rebuilding.'

"Do we have some young players? Yeah, we've got some young players. But that doesn't mean that you have to rebuild with young players. There's a standard here and a standard at most places in the National Football League. Given an opportunity, you want to have success. We've got some new people playing different positions, but that surely doesn't mean that we're rebuilding."

OK, fine. They're not rebuilding. That might be worse.

It was Shanahan, after all, who taught us that points are what really matter. All those yardage statistics are interesting and entertaining, but being in the top five in points and points allowed is the best indicator of a team with a chance to win it all.

The Broncos rank 28th in points and 29th in points allowed. The NFL has 32 teams. Only two of them have been outscored by at least 100 points midway through the season.

So, if they're not rebuilding, what's their excuse?

Well, people making mistakes, of course. Which could clear up any time.

"You're one guy off or two guys off," Shanahan said. "It doesn't take a whole lot."

In the meantime, I have two suggestions for Cutler in the interest of keeping him alive until the Broncos aren't not rebuilding anymore.

First, get a bone scan. I know the Broncos say the MRI on your lower leg was negative, so you're good to go. They said the same thing about Terrell Davis seven years ago. People cast doubt on his toughness when he couldn't go, despite that clean bill of health. When they finally gave him a bone scan two weeks later, it revealed a hot spot, a stress reaction, a precursor to a stress fracture.

Do yourself a favor. Don't wait two weeks.

Second, if it really is just a bruise and you can handle it, offer Shanahan a deal. You'll play with it if he'll move you around so you're not such a sitting duck.

No offense to your teammates. Good guys, I'm sure. But your center and left guard have never started in the NFL before. Not exactly what the Alex Gibbs offensive-line textbook prescribes.

You want to live past 24. You want to have children. You are not prepared to sacrifice your life for the illusion that the Broncos are not rebuilding.

And, whatever you do, don't use that word. It may have worked for the Rockies, but it will never work for Shanahan.

[Sassy]

First, get a bone scan. I know the Broncos say the MRI on your lower leg was negative, so you're good to go. They said the same thing about Terrell Davis seven years ago. People cast doubt on his toughness when he couldn't go, despite that clean bill of health. When they finally gave him a bone scan two weeks later, it revealed a hot spot, a stress reaction, a precursor to a stress fracture.

:(

[HEAV]

I worry for Jay-C.

[bloodsunday]

Krieger is a pompus idiot. I used to enjoy his articles, but now I think he just stands around complaining all day.

[Man-Goblin]

First of all, the bone scan thing was an obvious pot shot at the Broncos because Kisla felt he was embarrassed in the presser.

And to be technical, the Broncos made several win-now moves during the offseason. To begin the year, the Broncos, much of the media, and many fans had aspirations of being a good team that could go deep into the playoffs. Obviously, this hasn't come to fruition.

But how could the Broncos possibly be rebuilding already? We're in the middle of a freaking season in which they had high expectations going in. They aren't playing their young, inexperienced players because they want to; they are playing them because they have to. That's not rebuilding.

[chrisp]

Whilst its true that Shanny's take on handling the Media appears to be inspired by a novel written by George Orwell in 1948, and this rightly provokes the ire of many of the local commentators, it is also true that kreiger is a prime idiot of the highest order, second only to the peerless Mike Kiszla in the pignorant swine-headedness stakes.

Thing is, Shanny's point (and Kreiger's too stupid to read between the lines and get it but thankfully this is not true for all of us) is that whilst you may well be rebuilding, you never actually SAY you're rebuilding, becuase that takes the pressure to win away, and that pressure to win is needed to turn young, green players into solid, assured professionals.

...but of course Shanny can't spell that out because he'd be breaking his own rule if he does so he kind of alludes to it in the hopes that clever media people or clever readers will get it. Sadly Kreiger falls into neither category so Shanny's attempts at subtlety are dashed on the rocks of ignorance once more......

However, a few points about our 'rebuilding' line':

1) BOTH Nalen AND Hamilton would be playing now if they were healthy. They were not dumped in the offseason to give the young guys a chance, they got injured.

2) NONE of our new starters are rookies. Myers in fact is in his third year in the league if I'm not mistaken

3) the pass-protection in the Steelers game was actually pretty good. It was only in the first half of the Detroit game that it really sucked.

Yes, we're all worried about Cutler, but Shanny can't be blamed for the current state of the o-line, and there's plenty of scope for optimism that the pass-protection will improve, and be more consistent.

A bigger concern in fact, is our sudden inability to run-block now that Nalen has gone. Have a little chew on that one why doncha?

[DukeWoody]

First, get a bone scan. I know the Broncos say the MRI on your lower leg was negative, so you're good to go. They said the same thing about Terrell Davis seven years ago. People cast doubt on his toughness when he couldn't go, despite that clean bill of health. When they finally gave him a bone scan two weeks later, it revealed a hot spot, a stress reaction, a precursor to a stress fracture.

:(

Rino also passed a Broncos physical, but failed the Giants one in the attempted trade earlier this year...Coincidence??...maybe, but we'll never know the entire truth...

[Rohirrim]

"You're one guy off or two guys off," Shanahan said. "It doesn't take a whole lot."

I've been hearing this for ten years. :oyvey:

[Beantown Bronco]

Krieger is a pompus idiot. I used to enjoy his articles, but now I think he just stands around complaining all day.

Alright.....fess up.....which one of the OMane regulars is he?

[defenseman]

Krieger is a pompus idiot. I used to enjoy his articles, but now I think he just stands around complaining all day.

Krieger, as pompous as he is, is DEAD ON wrt this article. Shanahan, if he isn't smart (and he's been embarrassingly stupid in 2 of the last 3 games), will, count on it, get Cutler killed. I have no doubt of that just like I have no doubt this is the worst offensive line play I've seen out of the broncos in a long, long time. I've endorsed this same scenario on another thread. If shanahan's arrogance gets cutler killed, he needs to be hogtied and strung up from the highest tree available. I don't trust him one freaking bit on his ability to make a decision that will give the broncos the best chance to win or LEARN. He needs to sit cutler for a week or two..dman

[jonny1]

"You're one guy off or two guys off," Shanahan said. "It doesn't take a whole lot."

I've been hearing this for ten years. :oyvey:

He is talking about execution on the field.

One or two guys off their assignment . . . .

[Rohirrim]

He is talking about execution on the field.

One or two guys off their assignment . . . .

You say tomatoes... etc. He's been saying the same thing for years.

[defenseman]

Whilst its true that Shanny's take on handling the Media appears to be inspired by a novel written by George Orwell in 1948, and this rightly provokes the ire of many of the local commentators, it is also true that kreiger is a prime idiot of the highest order, second only to the peerless Mike Kiszla in the pignorant swine-headedness stakes.

Thing is, Shanny's point (and Kreiger's too stupid to read between the lines and get it but thankfully this is not true for all of us) is that whilst you may well be rebuilding, you never actually SAY you're rebuilding, becuase that takes the pressure to win away, and that pressure to win is needed to turn young, green players into solid, assured professionals.

...but of course Shanny can't spell that out because he'd be breaking his own rule if he does so he kind of alludes to it in the hopes that clever media people or clever readers will get it. Sadly Kreiger falls into neither category so Shanny's attempts at subtlety are dashed on the rocks of ignorance once more......

However, a few points about our 'rebuilding' line':

1) BOTH Nalen AND Hamilton would be playing now if they were healthy. They were not dumped in the offseason to give the young guys a chance, they got injured.

2) NONE of our new starters are rookies. Myers in fact is in his third year in the league if I'm not mistaken

3) the pass-protection in the Steelers game was actually pretty good. It was only in the first half of the Detroit game that it really sucked.

Yes, we're all worried about Cutler, but Shanny can't be blamed for the current state of the o-line, and there's plenty of scope for optimism that the pass-protection will improve, and be more consistent.

A bigger concern in fact, is our sudden inability to run-block now that Nalen has gone. Have a little chew on that one why doncha?

He can't? He's the head coach and GM. You damn right you can hang it on him, SINCE he has final decision on personnel. HE HAD FINAL SAY on the backups for the offensive line? DID HE NOT?....dman

*HE must be responsible and the press has every right to hold him accountable. That's why he gets the BIG BUCKS....no slack allowed.

[Mediator12]

"You're one guy off or two guys off," Shanahan said. "It doesn't take a whole lot."

I've been hearing this for ten years. :oyvey:

I think he has said they are one or two players away in the past in FA or draft. This is different. Now he is saying they are one or two guys off every play making mistakes. That is the inconsistency of new players and new schemes.

What is completely unacceptable is they are now 10 weeks into the season and the SAME errors are being made over and over. That is poor coaching, poor learning, and poor effort. No matter what he says about standards, this team has packed it in mentally. Despite beating PIT a few weeks ago, this team is still mentally deficient in all too many areas to be anything but below average at this point.

The optimism I had at the beginning of the season is gone because they are trending way behind the NFL learning curve. The inconsistency should be over by now. They should be executing more smoothly instead of much worse.

Mike needs self motivated players and by injury, attrition, and poor acquisition they no longer have that type of team. His biggest weakness is being magnified by the current roster that NEEDS a leader right now. Unfortunately, he will not do it himself and his ego would never let anyone else do it. This team is in a lot of trouble right now and one bad loss away against KC from completely imploding mentally.

[Crushaholic]

Which two guys and can we cut them? The way I see it, we're not getting a pass rush from ANYONE (MAYBE Dumervil, once in a while). If the scheme calls for the runner to come to them instead of them going to the runner and quarterback, maybe the scheme sucks and needs to be changed.

[Mediator12]

Which two guys and can we cut them? The way I see it, we're not getting a pass rush from ANYONE (MAYBE Dumervil, once in a while). If the scheme calls for the runner to come to them instead of them going to the runner and quarterback, maybe the scheme sucks and needs to be changed.

It is different guys on different plays in every phase of the game. ZERO CONSISTENCY=3-5 record with a talented team.

[Rock Chalk]

Maybe, just maybe, this team isnt talented like we all think.

Maybe, just maybe, we have overrated many of our players.

I certainly think we have. Injuries certainly have not helped matters, conversely, we weren't playing well with healthy players either.

[chrisp]

He can't? He's the head coach and GM. You damn right you can hang it on him, SINCE he has final decision on personnel. HE HAD FINAL SAY on the backups for the offensive line? DID HE NOT?....dman

*HE must be responsible and the press has every right to hold him accountable. That's why he gets the BIG BUCKS....no slack allowed.

All right pedant, what I meant was he can't be blamed for the CURRENT state of the O-line in that it is banged-up. Its not his fault the injuries have come, that's just football

Obviously as a HC with power to overrule the GM then of course he is ultimately responsible for each and every decision, but that's not the point. the guys we have are young with lots of promise, but they're all being thrown into the game much quicker than intended due to the circumstances.

[Mediator12]

Maybe, just maybe, this team isnt talented like we all think.

Maybe, just maybe, we have overrated many of our players.

I certainly think we have. Injuries certainly have not helped matters, conversely, we weren't playing well with healthy players either.

Alec, that certainly could be the case. However, these guys do win their individual matchups more often than not when they do not blow their assignments. The definition of talent varies, but I see capable players making a lot of mistakes mentally.

The great question to me is WHY? Are they incapable mentally of playing at this level consistently? That is their major flaw across the board and teams are abusing their mistakes even more than usual every game. Chemistry is also key to consistency in execution and they have very little, if any, at all this year. The biggest reason players Bust at this level is they fail to mentally acclimate to this level of play. A lot of their current players have never performed at a high level, but a few have and are underperforming this year as well.

I just think they are really playing uninspired football right now. No one seems to exhibit that killer mentality every single play that is needed to succeed against highly motivated competition. IMHO, they are playing well below the sum of all their parts and not this poor in ability.

[RaiderH8r]

I said it in another thread, Nails is a hall of famer. Anybody who says different is a glue sniffing cock jockey. Nobody steps in seamlessly for a hall of famer on any team at any position. Particularly one where if you blow your assignment you could get someone killed. These young guys have to step up and perform and perhaps a game where you're visibly eviscerated for the world to see and one where you damn near got your QB killed will tap into that mantra that is drilled into every OLs head from day one of Pop Warner...take care of your guy.

[telluride]

First, get a bone scan. I know the Broncos say the MRI on your lower leg was negative, so you're good to go. They said the same thing about Terrell Davis seven years ago. People cast doubt on his toughness when he couldn't go, despite that clean bill of health. When they finally gave him a bone scan two weeks later, it revealed a hot spot, a stress reaction, a precursor to a stress fracture.

:(

Does anyone really trust that what the team says is actually true? They have never been honest about a player's health. Kreiger is dead right here. Cutler should not trust the Bronco docs as far as he can throw them.

[defenseman]

"You're one guy off or two guys off," Shanahan said. "It doesn't take a whole lot."

I've been hearing this for ten years. :oyvey:

Bingo. Same ole, same ole, same ole rhetoric. Stale dialogue makes jack a stale boy...dman

[defenseman]

All right pedant, what I meant was he can't be blamed for the CURRENT state of the O-line in that it is banged-up. Its not his fault the injuries have come, that's just football

Obviously as a HC with power to overrule the GM then of course he is ultimately responsible for each and every decision, but that's not the point. the guys we have are young with lots of promise, but they're all being thrown into the game much quicker than intended due to the circumstances.

Agreed. Given the current state of affairs, I would expect to get raked through the coals by the press and the fans if I were shanahan. From where I sit though, I just think it may be the time for a bit of "refreshing". I'm wouldn't be surprised to see him pack his bags if the remainder of the year goes the same way as it has so far. It may be time, to just move on, nothing good or bad about it , it is though what it is and may be needed....dman

[defenseman]

Which two guys and can we cut them? The way I see it, we're not getting a pass rush from ANYONE (MAYBE Dumervil, once in a while). If the scheme calls for the runner to come to them instead of them going to the runner and quarterback, maybe the scheme sucks and needs to be changed.

I've always been a go on the "attack" kind of guy. Like the steelers did to the ravens last nite. An all out attack. Fun to watch for sure....dman

[SleepingTiger]

Does anyone really trust that what the team says is actually true? They have never been honest about a player's health. Kreiger is dead right here. Cutler should not trust the Bronco docs as far as he can throw them.

Why would coaching staff risk Cutler for one game? Cutler is the new face of the franchise and I know they wont do anything to jeopardize that.

[telluride]

Why would coaching staff risk Cutler for one game? Cutler is the new face of the franchise and I know they wont do anything to jeopardize that.

I just think that the trainers and docs and even Shanny have become ritually dishonest about the true health of injured players. See: Rod, Al, Javon, Hamilton, Lynch, etc.

[NFLBRONCO]

Maybe, just maybe, this team isnt talented like we all think.

Maybe, just maybe, we have overrated many of our players.

I certainly think we have. Injuries certainly have not helped matters, conversely, we weren't playing well with healthy players either.


I 100% agree with this. I think alot of fans think we are loaded with talent. I think the injuries excuse is just covering up real issues of average talent.

[bloodsunday]

Mike needs self motivated players and by injury, attrition, and poor acquisition they no longer have that type of team. His biggest weakness is being magnified by the current roster that NEEDS a leader right now.
Where's Alex Gibbs when you need him? Seriously. There would be players that feared for lives with these types of performances.

[bloodsunday]

Alec, that certainly could be the case. However, these guys do win their individual matchups more often than not when they do not blow their assignments. The definition of talent varies, but I see capable players making a lot of mistakes mentally.

The great question to me is WHY? Are they incapable mentally of playing at this level consistently? That is their major flaw across the board and teams are abusing their mistakes even more than usual every game. Chemistry is also key to consistency in execution and they have very little, if any, at all this year. The biggest reason players Bust at this level is they fail to mentally acclimate to this level of play. A lot of their current players have never performed at a high level, but a few have and are underperforming this year as well.

I just think they are really playing uninspired football right now. No one seems to exhibit that killer mentality every single play that is needed to succeed against highly motivated competition. IMHO, they are playing well below the sum of all their parts and not this poor in ability.

This is without a doubt the best post I have read in a while.

It's not just talent folks - at least not in the sense that you have to be a world class athlete. Everyone at this level is that talented. In fact, I would argue that we have been getting by with this little (or less) talent for years now. We went 13 - 3 two years ago and started 7 - 2 last year. So in the span of less than one full season we suddenly have no talent?

Something else is completely F'd up. IMHO, I guess chemistry is about the best word to describe it. For starters, you had a coaching staff that was relatively stable for a long time. Now its a revolving door -- especially at DC. Everyone has a "co" or "assistant to" title (Dennison, Heimerdinger, Bates, and Slowik -- too many cooks). To me, the fall-off really started once it became apparent that they were pulling the rug out from under Plummer. I have to wonder if Shanahan made some enemies in the locker room by doing that -- Plummer was a pretty popular guy. Not to mention, that was a move away from a veteran starter to a rookie in the middle of a playoff run. That's not exactly the way to make friends with veteran players. And finally, I think they have their share of low-character guys. Both draft picks from Florida have checkered histories. Dre Bly is more attitude than play right now. Travis Henry is definitely not a high-character guy. Brandon Marshall can't seem to leave the house without getting into trouble.... etc, etc..

[chrisp]

This is without a doubt the best post I have read in a while.

It's not just talent folks - at least not in the sense that you have to be a world class athlete. Everyone at this level is that talented. In fact, I would argue that we have been getting by with this little (or less) talent for years now. We went 13 - 3 two years ago and started 7 - 2 last year. So in the span of less than one full season we suddenly have no talent?

Something else is completely F'd up. IMHO, I guess chemistry is about the best word to describe it. For starters, you had a coaching staff that was relatively stable for a long time. Now its a revolving door -- especially at DC. Everyone has a "co" or "assistant to" title (Dennison, Heimerdinger, Bates, and Slowik -- too many cooks). To me, the fall-off really started once it became apparent that they were pulling the rug out from under Plummer. I have to wonder if Shanahan made some enemies in the locker room by doing that -- Plummer was a pretty popular guy. Not to mention, that was a move away from a veteran starter to a rookie in the middle of a playoff run. That's not exactly the way to make friends with veteran players. And finally, I think they have their share of low-character guys. Both draft picks from Florida have checkered histories. Dre Bly is more attitude than play right now. Travis Henry is definitely not a high-character guy. Brandon Marshall can't seem to leave the house without getting into trouble.... etc, etc..

I agree with a lot of what you say there, but I think you're overplaying the character thing - I think that a lot of the time even the guys who are scumbags in their personal life usually bring a professional attitude to work otherwise they just don't get anywhere.

I think the revolving door you allude to is the biggest reason why we're struggling, and sadly that means that the only real way out of this is to keep things as they are and knuckle down. At the end of the day what this franchise really needs is some stability in terms of personnel, both on and off the field.

I do have to say though, that if Shanny hadn't just managed to grab himself an extra first-rounder and a chance to land a true franchise quarterback, he probably wouldn't have dumped Plummer: he would have stuck with what he had and tried to make those few final tweaks to get us over the hump. He saw a chance for something and he grabbed it, and it changed the whole franchise.

[joe9999]

To me it's obvious that we don't have sufficient talent at linebacker and on the defensive line. This will be addressed after the season with freeagent aquisitions and throught he draft. The banged up offensive line is another huge problem. The rest of this year is for evaluation and develpment of our young players. The veteran players in their prime are put in a bad situation since they want to win now.

[Mediator12]

To me it's obvious that we don't have sufficient talent at linebacker and on the defensive line. This will be addressed after the season with freeagent aquisitions and throught he draft. The banged up offensive line is another huge problem. The rest of this year is for evaluation and develpment of our young players. The veteran players in their prime are put in a bad situation since they want to win now.

Every team wants to win now and especially every veteran. It's all about balance and growth. What has happened in DEN has destroyed any balance they may have had to start the season. Too many injuries coupled with too many new Starters=inconsistency and lack of chemistry.

I watch a lot of football games through the week as I tape at least 5 games of interest. This is one of the worst seasons in a long time for good teams and parody. There are a lot of average to below teams in the NFL. Very few teams have a legitimate shot of winning it this year, but they all are head and shoulders better than the next tier of teams.

The talent is much harder to evaluate when things are not working right. Capable players look much worse when they have to cover the mistakes of poor players. On defense especially, this is hard to sort out when just watching a player as they sometimes have to play another players gap who missed an assignment or just got beaten. Usually, the blame lies with the player who did not hold their assignment and not the one who looks awful after the player goes by him.

This is the case with DEN's LB's and has been for some time with the poor DL play over the last 3 years. Not that they are top tier NFL talent anymore, but they ARE capable of doing their jobs when they are not covering up front. Unfortunately, people are all too ready to throw the baby out with the bathwater. This place loves to destroy them at every opportunity, but they would perform a lot better if they just had to do their own jobs instead of cleaning up the front four's constant mess.