View Full Version : If not Shanahan, who?
I see a lot of grumbling about Shanahan. For those who would like Shanahan to move on, who do you see as a suitable replacement?
Los Broncos
11-06-2007, 12:38 AM
He may want to walk after this season, things haven't been good this year.
Cowher is a good choice, but i dont see him coaching in Denver.
tsiguy96
11-06-2007, 12:39 AM
a young college coach looking for a chance to move up, where most of them come from. its not our job to find a replacement isnt it? anyone we get CANT do worse then we are doing now, and maybe its time for someone who can pull some tricks out of his sleeve now and then, with some imagination to the play calling.
NFLBRONCO
11-06-2007, 12:41 AM
Kisla
He has all the answers let him take the reins.
a young college coach looking for a chance to move up, where most of them come from. its not our job to find a replacement isnt it? anyone we get CANT do worse then we are doing now, and maybe its time for someone who can pull some tricks out of his sleeve now and then, with some imagination to the play calling.
This is nonsense. Someone could most definitely do worse. 2 years ago we were in the AFC Champ. game with Plummer as our QB. Its not like Shanahan becomes garbage suddenly. However, that doesnt mean a change wouldnt be good if theres a suitable option. Youve provided none. And sorry, but jut anyone doesnt cut it.
-Slap-
11-06-2007, 12:44 AM
Bill Callahan will be available soon.
Bill Callahan will be available soon.
Oy vay! Thats not even funny.
What about Jeff Tedford?
broncofan2438
11-06-2007, 12:46 AM
I don't think anyone will have an impact as Tomlin has had.....good luck
yavoon
11-06-2007, 12:46 AM
mike tomlin
oops.
Funny... Shanny has not done a thing since Kube's left. Bring back Gary..... The true mastermind!!!
~Crash~
11-06-2007, 12:55 AM
a young college coach looking for a chance to move up, where most of them come from. its not our job to find a replacement isnt it? anyone we get CANT do worse then we are doing now, and maybe its time for someone who can pull some tricks out of his sleeve now and then, with some imagination to the play calling.
LMAO it couldent get worse right !!!:notworthy :notworthy :spit:
Listen **** nut ask a lions fan if they woul like the lions to ba as good as the broncos for the last 12 years ?
tsiguy96
11-06-2007, 12:59 AM
LMAO it couldent get worse right !!!:notworthy :notworthy :spit:
Listen **** nut ask a lions fan if they woul like the lions to ba as good as the broncos for the last 12 years ?
a bunch of 9-7 seasons are great, but im not talking about those. im not saying shanahan WASNT a great coach, but based on playcalling this season alone, its safe to say hes not the same. quit living in the past about how great shanahan has done previously, thats nice and great, but it doesnt change the fact that for some reason this team took a turn for the worse.
a bunch of 9-7 seasons are great, but im not talking about those. im not saying shanahan WASNT a great coach, but based on playcalling this season alone, its safe to say hes not the same. quit living in the past about how great shanahan has done previously, thats nice and great, but it doesnt change the fact that for some reason this team took a turn for the worse.
Well, who? Also consider that our personnel is set to run a zone blocking system so that might limit our options somewhat unless we have complete roster upheval. Do you think there is someone who can work within the framework of the current offensive structure...or would you prefere complete upheval? Give me names?
a bunch of 9-7 seasons are great, but im not talking about those. im not saying shanahan WASNT a great coach, but based on playcalling this season alone, its safe to say hes not the same. quit living in the past about how great shanahan has done previously, thats nice and great, but it doesnt change the fact that for some reason this team took a turn for the worse.
Come on... Faider fan still lives in 1983 and the commitment to excellence. There are a lot of poster's here happy with a 3-5 record and a bunch of 1 and done playoff series the past 10 years. What has Shanny done this year to warrant the azz licking he gets here???
Marty Schotenhiemer!!!
Gary Kubiac
Bill Parcells
Urban Meyers
Before you bash any of the above,Who thought Wade Phillips would do a damn thing in Dallas? A different coach with a new philosophy might be what this team needs. The same old song and dance does not work in Denver any longer.
Bronco LB 59
11-06-2007, 01:07 AM
If you take any great coach, give him a dozen or more seasons at one place, they are bound to have a bump in the road here and there.
Hogan11
11-06-2007, 01:08 AM
Normally, I'd say Jeff Fisher, but he's not gonna be available for a very long time. I just don't see the Chin making his way here either.
Shanahan is coach for life, best accept it whether you're willing to or not.
DomCasual
11-06-2007, 01:10 AM
Kyle Shanahan? We could bring in Chris Simms to back up Cutler, and everyone could be BFF!
jletourneau
11-06-2007, 01:11 AM
I wouldn't be one to call for Shanny's head, because I wouldn't expect to necessarily find a better option, especially with x's and o's and consistency.
However, I do believe a time comes when an organization needs a new voice. Several great coaches from the 4 major sports have said that they believe once you have been with a team for 10 years, you need to start thinking about moving on due to familiarity.
This would be the only reason I could see to bring in someone else, for a new, fresh voice and perspective in the organization.
As far as names, I wouldn't be one to go after a new or re-hashed big name of a former head coach. I'd prefer to look for a guy who isn't climbing the ladder because of specific success in what area, but rather for their overall leadership ability. We've seen too many coordinators who are GREAT coordinators but aren't great head coaches, largely because they are either to specific to their side of the ball, or don't have the overall leadership capacity of other greats.
So, if we were to come up with names, or a situation, I'd like to see someone like a Mike Singletary, who I believe has always shown to be a great leader and has a lot of fire and work ethic come in as a head coach, then hire a young offensive coordinator to really take the offense similar to a Jason Garret or McDaniels in N.E. Perhaps bringing in someone like Sarkisian from USC who is accustomed to the zone blocking scheme.
All this said, I would not be one to call for Shanny's firing, because I don't know that we'll find someone better. But sometimes an organization does benefit from a new voice and direction.
Normally, I'd say Jeff Fisher, but he's not gonna be available for a very long time. I just don't see the Chin making his way here either.
Shanahan is coach for life, best accept it whether you're willing to or not.
Yeah, for all the whining and complaining there have been a grand total of two canidates offered so far: Tedford and Kubiak. Its an important question to ask because theres a reason its hard to think of someone competent enough to be a suitable replacement in terms of what we've been used to.
I wouldn't be one to call for Shanny's head, because I wouldn't expect to necessarily find a better option, especially with x's and o's and consistency.
However, I do believe a time comes when an organization needs a new voice. Several great coaches from the 4 major sports have said that they believe once you have been with a team for 10 years, you need to start thinking about moving on due to familiarity.
This would be the only reason I could see to bring in someone else, for a new, fresh voice and perspective in the organization.
As far as names, I wouldn't be one to go after a new or re-hashed big name of a former head coach. I'd prefer to look for a guy who isn't climbing the ladder because of specific success in what area, but rather for their overall leadership ability. We've seen too many coordinators who are GREAT coordinators but aren't great head coaches, largely because they are either to specific to their side of the ball, or don't have the overall leadership capacity of other greats.
So, if we were to come up with names, or a situation, I'd like to see someone like a Mike Singletary, who I believe has always shown to be a great leader and has a lot of fire and work ethic come in as a head coach, then hire a young offensive coordinator to really take the offense similar to a Jason Garret or McDaniels in N.E. Perhaps bringing in someone like Sarkisian from USC who is accustomed to the zone blocking scheme.
All this said, I would not be one to call for Shanny's firing, because I don't know that we'll find someone better. But sometimes an organization does benefit from a new voice and direction.
I hear what youre saying and I think its a great post but I actually kind of like our current set up in someways because, on the other hand, its rare these days that the coach has more pull than the player. This allows you to replace people with guys who get the message.
Yeah, for all the whining and complaining there have been a grand total of two canidates offered so far: Tedford and Kubiak. Its an important question to ask because theres a reason its hard to think of someone competent enough to be a suitable replacement in terms of what we've been used to.
So tell me Lex.... Are you happy with the product that has be displayed on the field this season???
Who is the bottom line in the decision making for the Bronco's???
Do you think it will get better this season???
At what point does Shanny take responsibility/Heat for all of the bad draft picks, free agent moves, hiring then firing of the coach/coordinator turnstile we have had the past 10 years.
I await your reply
~Crash~
11-06-2007, 01:24 AM
a bunch of 9-7 seasons are great, but im not talking about those. im not saying shanahan WASNT a great coach, but based on playcalling this season alone, its safe to say hes not the same. quit living in the past about how great shanahan has done previously, thats nice and great, but it doesnt change the fact that for some reason this team took a turn for the worse.
13 -3 was not so bad ....
~Crash~
11-06-2007, 01:27 AM
a bunch of 9-7 seasons are great, but im not talking about those. im not saying shanahan WASNT a great coach, but based on playcalling this season alone, its safe to say hes not the same. quit living in the past about how great shanahan has done previously, thats nice and great, but it doesnt change the fact that for some reason this team took a turn for the worse.
well lets see hmmmmmmm could it be we have lost alot of great players and are at this point scraping the bottom of the barrel:sunshine:
SoCalBronco
11-06-2007, 01:27 AM
Kyle Shanahan? We could bring in Chris Simms to back up Cutler, and everyone could be BFF!
Hahaha...Kyle Shanahan....I'm reminded of Slappy's priceless comment awhile back when we were debating whether to sign Chris Simms as a backup, I think he said something to the effect of it would be awkward for Shanny to be coaching his son in law.
Great stuff.
13 -3 was not so bad ....
Yeah but being 3-5 over all 2-3 at home with 5 of the next 8 on the road and giving up over 100 more points than you have scored is REAL bad
~Crash~
11-06-2007, 01:30 AM
Oh so if the half the team that did not play last week end had nothing to do with it ? and I Include Wilson
DENVER BRONCOS
POS. PLAYER INJURY WED. (10/31)
THU. (11/1)
FRI. (11/2)
DE Jarvis Moss Leg N/A
N/A
Out
WR Javon Walker Knee Out
Out
Out
DT Sam Adams Team Decision Did Not Participate
Full Participation
N/A
S John Lynch Neck Did Not Participate
Limited Participation
Questionable
CB Champ Bailey Quadriceps Full Participation
Full Participation
Probable
DT Antwon Burton Ankle Full Participation
Full Participation
Probable
RB Travis Henry Ribs Full Participation
Full Participation
Probable
G Montrae Holland Shoulder Full Participation
Full Participation
Probable
WR Brandon Stokley Hamstring N/A
N/A
Probable
LB D.J. Williams Shoulder Full Participation
Full Participation
Probable
Reserve/Injured
82 Alexander, Stephen TE 6' 4" 250 31 10th Oklahoma FA -'07
91 Ekuban, Ebenezer DE 6' 4" 275 31 9th North Carolina T (Cle)-'05
50 Hamilton, Ben G/C 6' 4" 290 30 7th Minnesota D4a-'01
56 Holdman, Warrick LB 6' 1" 243 31 9th Texas A&M UFA (Was)-'07
81 Jackson, Nate TE 6' 3" 235 28 5th Menlo T (S.F.)-'03
66 Nalen, Tom C 6' 3" 286 36 14th Boston College D7c-94
Are there some things I am pissed about only one ! and it realy cost us the season ! MLB we do not have one !
the coaches put way to much on the Idea of Willams at MLB .
Yes some he of the players played up above and most of them were not all that effective .
Injury is part of playing football man. A good team will have other players step up and make plays... No one on this team is doing so. And 4 of the players on the list did play. Maybe Sam Adams did not play because he SUCKS DONKEY SCHLONG, but that is another Shanny f up
~Crash~
11-06-2007, 01:38 AM
Yeah but being 3-5 over all 2-3 at home with 5 of the next 8 on the road and giving up over 100 more points than you have scored is REAL bad
listen I have seen you heckle people for not much you expect nothing but roses some times **** happens and there are some thorns . I think we as fans need to be far and think that we need to give 2 more years to biuld the team around a really good QB .
So tell me Lex.... Are you happy with the product that has be displayed on the field this season???
Does this question even need to be asked? No, obviously Im not.
Who is the bottom line in the decision making for the Bronco's???
Thats your issue. Im not joining the lynchmob to ask for Shanahan to be fired.
Do you think it will get better this season???
No, but I think it will get better next season. Lets face it. We entered the season with an aged offensive line and now were completely green at Center and Left Guard. We have a QB who has had limited playing time and a new DC with a new system and personnel that doesnt necessarily match that system...and part of that is due to the fact that we have LBs who cant tackle. If we were going to do well this year, we needed Cutler to punish teams in the air...but thats problematic because of our tackles. I think the hope was that Pears would be better than he is and same with Lepsis. And I havent even mentioned the injuries. Im optimistic for the future though. I like Shanahan but there are some guys on our team I really want to see off our roster. I havent been happy with some of the playcalling but, to be honest, I didnt like every single call during the SB years. Lets not pretend that every call then was golden and now every call is garbage. It was a mix then as it is now.
At what point does Shanny take responsibility/Heat for all of the bad draft picks, free agent moves, hiring then firing of the coach/coordinator turnstile we have had the past 10 years.
Again, Im not compelled to impugn Shanahan like you are.
Kaylore
11-06-2007, 01:40 AM
This team was an 8-8 or 9-7 team before all the injuries. Given everything that's happened this doesn't surprise me as much as I thought. We saw it in camp and it's the same problem now. There's high turnover so little to no chemistry. We lost team captains on all three units and changed players on every unit. Some of the play-calling hasn't been great all the time, but personnel changes have exacerbated the problem. Fielding the same 11 guys on both sides of the ball for more than two games has yet to happen this year.
I definitely think Shanahan is partly to blame, especially for the blowouts. What I think is ridiculous is all the people that are retconing what he's done here and re-writing it like it's been this way for all 13 years. It hasn't.
There are other great coaches who have struggled worse than we are with crappy front office problems. Look at Jeff Fisher. He's an excellent coach but he's some terrible seasons and huge salary problems. I have trouble believing anyone is ready to sell him up the rive despite those issues.
Shanahan is an excellent coach and I'm not ready to sell him up the river yet.
~Crash~
11-06-2007, 01:44 AM
Injury is part of playing football man. A good team will have other players step up and make plays... No one on this team is doing so. And 4 of the players on the list did play. Maybe Sam Adams did not play because he SUCKS DONKEY SCHLONG, but that is another Shanny f up
like I said you only see what you want . yes some of them played but if you took away that many players from a team most teams will stuggle I think you are not being far to call for a new coach with season left .
If you were to say I want our GM to have final say in GM duties then I would like that Idea .
Broncos4Life
11-06-2007, 01:44 AM
What about this guy
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1130000/images/_1134825_fassel150.jpg
I know a lot of people won't like it. I'm just throwing it out there. I don't think I'd like this guy as our HC. His last season with the Giants was crap. And what did he do with the Baltimore offense? Nothing. I just know hes set to return somewhere.
Again, Im not compelled to impugn Shanahan like you are.
And I am not about to give him a free pass for failure like you have.
yavoon
11-06-2007, 01:46 AM
What about this guy
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1130000/images/_1134825_fassel150.jpg
I know a lot of people won't like it. I'm just throwing it out there. I don't think I'd like this guy as our HC. His last season with the Giants was crap. And what did he do with the Baltimore offense? Nothing. I just know hes set to return somewhere.
that'd be as bad as the bates hiring, retread blech.
like I said you only see what you want . yes some of them played but if you took away that many players from a team most teams will stuggle I think you are not being far to call for a new coach with season left .
If you were to say I want our GM to have final say in GM duties then I would like that Idea .
Yeah, but Shanahan is too strong with the 'X' and 'O's to be casually discarded so we can have a GM. Cant you see it now. We get a GM and a new coach and suddenly we start missing Shanahan. I agree with Kaylores point about being limited in the playcalling with the roster as it has been. People get so plugged in the the one playoff win since Elway but what other coach is superior to Belichick 'X' and 'O' wise? You dont just replace that. Yeah, weve had personnel gaffes but Shanahans acumen has counted for a lot. And to be honest the reason people get fixated on the one playoff win and not the 5-1 record vs Bradichick is because thats what the east coast media feeds us. And over time, if you hear about the one playoff win enough, youll buy into it and completely ignore the positives. Besides that, if you want to make an issue out of Shanahan not winning playoff games since Elway, look at the Patriots. What was Belichicks level of success before coming across Brady? And who have we been losing to in the playoffs? Thats right, a team with an elite QB when weve had a decent QB who was buoyed by a quality coaching. You cant have it both ways. You cant grill Shanahan for winning with Elway and then losing to Manning. Its stupid.
It all sounds great that in another year or two we will automatically be better. But there are a number of players that will no longer be here due to retirement, Injury or other factors. When the so called window opens up, we will have to be reloading at a lot of different positions.
Defensive tackle
Weak side LB
Strong side LB
Free safety
Strong safety
Both Offensive tackles will be gone
Rod and stokely will be gone
We still will not have an answer on special team returns
Nalen will be gone
Will Hamilton ever come back
Javon's knee is a question mark
Travis Henry will be gone
Depth all across the O line
Will the defense buy into Bates system???
There are a ton of things that are going to change in the next few years, So it is not a given that we are going to be contending for the playoffs, let alone the superbowl. I guess most of you are a lot more optimistic than I am.
SoCalBronco
11-06-2007, 01:53 AM
Yeah, but Shanahan is too strong with the 'X' and 'O's to be casually discarded so we can have a GM. Cant you see it now. We get a GM and a new coach and suddenly we start missing Shanahan. I agree with Kaylores point about being limited in the playcalling with the roster as it has been. People get so plugged in the the one playoff win since Elway but what other coach is superior to Belichick 'X' and 'O' wise? You dont just replace that. Yeah, weve had personnel gaffes but Shanahans acumen has counted for a lot. And to be honest the reason people get fixated on the one playoff win and not the 5-1 record vs Bradichick is because thats what the east coast media feeds us. And over time, if you hear about the one playoff win enough, youll buy into it and completely ignore the positives. Besides that, if you want to make an issue out of Shanahan not winning playoff games since Elway, look at the Patriots. What was Belichicks level of success before coming across Brady? And who have we been losing to in the playoffs? Thats right, a team with an elite QB when weve had a decent QB who was buoyed by a quality coaching. You cant have it both ways. You cant grill Shanahan for winning with Elway and then losing to Manning. Its stupid.
Very good post
And I am not about to give him a free pass for failure like you have.
I dont give him a free pass but Im not joining the lynch mob either. I get annoyed with personnel decisions and some play calls like anyone else but when I take a step back and think about it, we dont have it so bad. And furthermore, I cant really think of someone who is Shanahans equal to replace him with so its hard for me to get behind the idea of getting rid of him.
atomicbloke
11-06-2007, 01:55 AM
Urban Meyer.
He would utilize Cutler's full potential.
But that's only if Shanny goes. At the moment Urban Meyer can't hold Shanny's clipboard.
You cant have it both ways. You cant grill Shanahan for winning with Elway and then losing to Manning. Its stupid.
Silly me, I thought it was Ben Rothlisberger and the Steelers that embarrassed the Broncos at home in the AFC championship game 2 season ago. I will work on getting my facts straight and then get back to you.
Sir Mawn
11-06-2007, 02:05 AM
I'd be happy to keep reading the candidates.. it's great fun!
Silly me, I thought it was Ben Rothlisberger and the Steelers that embarrassed the Broncos at home in the AFC championship game 2 season ago. I will work on getting my facts straight and then get back to you.
Again, the only reason we made it that far was because up until that point our coaches were able to make Jake raise his level of play. I dont know about you, but I kept wondering when the wheels would fall off because I always felt that the old Jake would show up. Amazingly it took a very long time for this to happen but it eventually did and unfortunately that was in the AFC championship game. There were several games that year I thought we would lose and could have easily lost.
SoCalBronco
11-06-2007, 02:07 AM
Urban Meyer.
He would utilize Cutler's full potential.
But that's only if Shanny goes. At the moment Urban Meyer can't hold Shanny's clipboard.
No, he wouldn't. He'd get him killed.
You can't run the zone read, and triple option and shovel option and speed option and all the other aspects of his offense in the NFL. The players that you isolate are too fast, and the hits you ask your QB to take on every play is way too much. It is an innovative offense, a very good offense, but ill suited for pro football. They're is alot of smoke and mirrors in the NFL too, alot of deception in modern pro football defenses, it screwes up these gun option blocking schemes. They're's alot of linebacker prowling and shifting of fronts and such. There is alot you can do to mess up this offense. Just as an example, the entire offense builds from the zone read play, where you leave the EMLOS (End man on LOS) unblocked, either giving to the back if he stays to contain the QB keep or keeping if he crashes down the line chasing the back. This is would be a nightmare in the NFL with the cat quick ends in this league that can change direction without losing anything in the process...not to mention all the little gimmicks you can do to mess this up like give the QB a false read by crashing the DE and bringing the OLB behind him so that when the QB pulls the ball back in and takes off he'll get smacked in the mouth by the OLB. It's also a very predictable offense. You know they play a simple numbers game, so you know when they will throw and when they will run.
There are some things in the college game that are innovative and can translate to the pro game, but this is not one of them.
atomicbloke
11-06-2007, 02:10 AM
It all sounds great that in another year or two we will automatically be better. But there are a number of players that will no longer be here due to retirement, Injury or other factors. When the so called window opens up, we will have to be reloading at a lot of different positions.
.
Wow! How come no one on this board has ever mentioned this before?
We keep hearing this is an young time and its only a matter of time before the noobs gel and then we will be a force.
But no one mentions that by the time that happens, we'll be close to losing our current pillars on the team.
Nails, Lepsis, Rod, Lynch will be gone. Champ's contract will start becoming a problem. So will a few other backloaded contracts.
Marshall, Dumervil, Dj might hit FA.
yavoon
11-06-2007, 02:29 AM
Yeah, but Shanahan is too strong with the 'X' and 'O's to be casually discarded so we can have a GM. Cant you see it now. We get a GM and a new coach and suddenly we start missing Shanahan. I agree with Kaylores point about being limited in the playcalling with the roster as it has been. People get so plugged in the the one playoff win since Elway but what other coach is superior to Belichick 'X' and 'O' wise? You dont just replace that. Yeah, weve had personnel gaffes but Shanahans acumen has counted for a lot. And to be honest the reason people get fixated on the one playoff win and not the 5-1 record vs Bradichick is because thats what the east coast media feeds us. And over time, if you hear about the one playoff win enough, youll buy into it and completely ignore the positives. Besides that, if you want to make an issue out of Shanahan not winning playoff games since Elway, look at the Patriots. What was Belichicks level of success before coming across Brady? And who have we been losing to in the playoffs? Thats right, a team with an elite QB when weve had a decent QB who was buoyed by a quality coaching. You cant have it both ways. You cant grill Shanahan for winning with Elway and then losing to Manning. Its stupid.
is he really strong w/ x's and o's? 13 years ago he was cutting edge, now its all retread.
yavoon
11-06-2007, 02:33 AM
No, he wouldn't. He'd get him killed.
You can't run the zone read, and triple option and shovel option and speed option and all the other aspects of his offense in the NFL. The players that you isolate are too fast, and the hits you ask your QB to take on every play is way too much. It is an innovative offense, a very good offense, but ill suited for pro football. They're is alot of smoke and mirrors in the NFL too, alot of deception in modern pro football defenses, it screwes up these gun option blocking schemes. They're's alot of linebacker prowling and shifting of fronts and such. There is alot you can do to mess up this offense. Just as an example, the entire offense builds from the zone read play, where you leave the EMLOS (End man on LOS) unblocked, either giving to the back if he stays to contain the QB keep or keeping if he crashes down the line chasing the back. This is would be a nightmare in the NFL with the cat quick ends in this league that can change direction without losing anything in the process...not to mention all the little gimmicks you can do to mess this up like give the QB a false read by crashing the DE and bringing the OLB behind him so that when the QB pulls the ball back in and takes off he'll get smacked in the mouth by the OLB. It's also a very predictable offense. You know they play a simple numbers game, so you know when they will throw and when they will run.
There are some things in the college game that are innovative and can translate to the pro game, but this is not one of them.
supposedly bellicheck investigated these options that were popular in college and concluded that in the pro's all u'd have to do is always make the qb keep it and hit him hard every play and that'd end that.
dsmoot
11-06-2007, 06:28 AM
Funny... Shanny has not done a thing since Kube's left. Bring back Gary..... The true mastermind!!!
Shanahan hasn't had a winning record since Jake was the QB
Tom A Hawk
11-06-2007, 08:42 AM
This is nonsense. Someone could most definitely do worse. 2 years ago we were in the AFC Champ. game with Plummer as our QB. Its not like Shanahan becomes garbage suddenly. However, that doesnt mean a change wouldnt be good if theres a suitable option. Youve provided none. And sorry, but jut anyone doesnt cut it.
I would be glad to take Shanahan in exchange for Herm, Huard and Mike Solari. Deal?
Broncoman13
11-06-2007, 09:05 AM
This team was an 8-8 or 9-7 team before all the injuries. Given everything that's happened this doesn't surprise me as much as I thought. We saw it in camp and it's the same problem now. There's high turnover so little to no chemistry. We lost team captains on all three units and changed players on every unit. Some of the play-calling hasn't been great all the time, but personnel changes have exacerbated the problem. Fielding the same 11 guys on both sides of the ball for more than two games has yet to happen this year.
I definitely think Shanahan is partly to blame, especially for the blowouts. What I think is ridiculous is all the people that are retconing what he's done here and re-writing it like it's been this way for all 13 years. It hasn't.
There are other great coaches who have struggled worse than we are with crappy front office problems. Look at Jeff Fisher. He's an excellent coach but he's some terrible seasons and huge salary problems. I have trouble believing anyone is ready to sell him up the rive despite those issues.
Shanahan is an excellent coach and I'm not ready to sell him up the river yet.
QFT!
If we do anything, bring in a young guy to replace Dinger. Bring in another young guy to replace Slowik. Let those two youngs guys learn from Dennison and Bates... and let Bates and Dennison learn a little "new flavor" from the young guys.
In camp, I really thought Bates, with his Rah-Rah personallity would help this team and their motivation. WE need some guys that eat, drink, and **** football. We NEED another Bill Romanowksi on this team... not a Bill Cowher managing it.
I see a lot of grumbling about Shanahan. For those who would like Shanahan to move on, who do you see as a suitable replacement?
You have to search, interview and evaluate prospects.
Everyone wants to hang on to the past. But how can you find the future if you don't look?
Good ownership will find good coaching. Why because they demand it.
Myself, I want to get a QB guru type. Charlie Wiess could be fed up (and ND also) with losing.
Steve Mariucci also would be nice to have in Denver. He has worked with Favre and Young, which could help with the progression of Cutler.
I want an offensive minded coach, a player’s coach, but a guy that doesn't bull**** the fans. A guy that while want's a say in player personnel, but doesn't have the need to have control over every aspect of the personnel.
Having a coach handle the money of the players and having to earn their trust is just going to lead to trouble. I need you to go out there and kill yourself on the field, but I need you to do it at this price.
That just leads to bad blood between players and coach/GM. Let the coach be the good guy and the GM the bad guy when it comes to money.
This franchise, while having success in the regular season, has only one playoff win since #7 retired. The playoff losses have been blowouts.
A change could be good for this franchise.
Rohirrim
11-06-2007, 09:20 AM
Pete Carroll.
fontaine
11-06-2007, 09:24 AM
You have to search, interview and evaluate prospects.
Everyone wants to hang on to the past. But how can you find the future if you don't look?
Good ownership will find good coaching. Why because they demand it.
Myself, I want to get a QB guru type. Charlie Wiess could be fed up (and ND also) with losing.
Steve Mariucci also would be nice to have in Denver. He has worked with Favre and Young, which could help with the progression of Cutler.
I want an offensive minded coach, a player’s coach, but a guy that doesn't bull**** the fans. A guy that while want's a say in player personnel, but doesn't have the need to have control over every aspect of the personnel.
Having a coach handle the money of the players and having to earn their trust is just going to lead to trouble. I need you to go out there and kill yourself on the field, but I need you to do it at this price.
That just leads to bad blood between players and coach/GM. Let the coach be the good guy and the GM the bad guy when it comes to money.
This franchise, while having success in the regular season, has only one playoff win since #7 retired. The playoff losses have been blowouts.
A change could be good for this franchise.
Weiss? He can't do it ND what makes you think he's going to succeed in the NFL as a coach?
Mooch? Hell no. He's been passed up plenty of times. That should tell you everything.
As far as the rest? I could be wrong but I don't think Shanahan deals with contracts/agents. It's Sundquist.
Broncomutt
11-06-2007, 09:27 AM
anyone we get CANT do worse then we are doing now
I am onboard with the replace Shanahan movement but this is absolutely the wrong attitude. I have my own job so I don't have time to research possible replacements for my favorite NFL team, but I am sure somebody is out there. Somebody, but not anybody.
I am onboard with the replace Shanahan movement but this is absolutely the wrong attitude. I have my own job so I don't have time to research possible replacements for my favorite NFL team, but I am sure somebody is out there. Somebody, but not anybody.
Thats just it. There really isnt someone with a resume that makes you feel solid about whoever it might be. Plus on top of that, we have the personnel to run a particular kind of offense, so unless you completely wipe the slate clean, you have to work within that framework.
Rohirrim
11-06-2007, 09:43 AM
Looks to me like we're in the perfect position to "wipe the slate clean," as you put it. In fact, I'm guessing that's what's going to happen whether or not Mike stays or goes.
defenseman
11-06-2007, 09:47 AM
Thats just it. There really isnt someone with a resume that makes you feel solid about whoever it might be. Plus on top of that, we have the personnel to run a particular kind of offense, so unless you completely wipe the slate clean, you have to work within that framework.
Pete Carroll has a solid resume and has proven he can win at both levels. In addition, Shanahan is "stale". Simple as that. Playcalling? Mediocre at best. He's allowed the defense to continue to erode away, and whaaala, you have 2 class A blowouts at the hands of the lions and chargers. To deny there is NOT an issue right now with the head coach, would be the same as putting the blinders on. He, not the team, must make some adjustments right now, especially based on an apparent lack of "motivation" on a few occassions by the players. Letting a team quit on you (AT HOME NO LESS) is indicative of much deeper problems. should he go right now? I'd say no. However, to disregard "looking around" presently for some possible qualified candidates is missing the boat. Bottom line is, he's not getting the job done, not even close. You must take a look at the field available. In the meantime, I'd be pushing shanahan to consider giving up his GM duties and just coach, since that appears to be his biggest problem right now, he's stale , unimaginative and quite quite boring to be honest. When is he excited? When he appears the "frightened child" frantically flipping through his notes on the sideline finding, NO ANSWERS, in what once was the "masterminds" bible. The fact that he doesn't appear to trust his players during the game does not bode well for anyone, and has a VERY negative impact on a young Cutler and the veterans especially. In any case, to deny he's got issues, well I'm thinking it's a can't see the trees for the forest scenario..dman
fontaine
11-06-2007, 10:09 AM
Pete Carroll has a solid resume and has proven he can win at both levels. In addition, Shanahan is "stale". Simple as that. Playcalling? Mediocre at best. He's allowed the defense to continue to erode away, and whaaala, you have 2 class A blowouts at the hands of the lions and chargers.
Carroll did squat in the NFL and got fired twice from two jobs. What is he a career .500 coach?
And the team spent millions plus 5 draft picks on first day players, all on defense and you think Shanahan has allowed the defense to erode?
Seriously where do you come up with his stuff?
Stormontheplains
11-06-2007, 10:12 AM
Isn't it funny over time how Carroll becomes a good NFL coach when in fact he was horrible. The guy can sell car's and bring in recruits, couldn't coach an NFL team to save his life.
socalorado
11-06-2007, 10:16 AM
Pete Carroll has a solid resume and has proven he can win at both levels. In addition, Shanahan is "stale". Simple as that. Playcalling? Mediocre at best. He's allowed the defense to continue to erode away, and whaaala, you have 2 class A blowouts at the hands of the lions and chargers. To deny there is NOT an issue right now with the head coach, would be the same as putting the blinders on. He, not the team, must make some adjustments right now, especially based on an apparent lack of "motivation" on a few occassions by the players. Letting a team quit on you (AT HOME NO LESS) is indicative of much deeper problems. should he go right now? I'd say no. However, to disregard "looking around" presently for some possible qualified candidates is missing the boat. Bottom line is, he's not getting the job done, not even close. You must take a look at the field available. In the meantime, I'd be pushing shanahan to consider giving up his GM duties and just coach, since that appears to be his biggest problem right now, he's stale , unimaginative and quite quite boring to be honest. When is he excited? When he appears the "frightened child" frantically flipping through his notes on the sideline finding, NO ANSWERS, in what once was the "masterminds" bible. The fact that he doesn't appear to trust his players during the game does not bode well for anyone, and has a VERY negative impact on a young Cutler and the veterans especially. In any case, to deny he's got issues, well I'm thinking it's a can't see the trees for the forest scenario..dman
Get him in here right now!!!
That would be pefect!
Man, that would make Greasy Al pissed!
defenseman
11-06-2007, 10:21 AM
Carroll did squat in the NFL and got fired twice from two jobs. What is he a career .500 coach?
And the team spent millions plus 5 draft picks on first day players, all on defense and you think Shanahan has allowed the defense to erode?
Seriously where do you come up with his stuff?
He's not only the HEAD COACH, but the GM with final decisions on personnel. What should we do give him a 'pass'? I don't think so. He bears the brunt of their poor performance. Why? He gets the big bucks to ensure they don't look like dogsh!t. Well, mission failed on his part wouldn't you say? Nothing wrong with holding someone accountable when they quite honestly ARE NOT earning their paycheck from where I sit..dman
Rohirrim
11-06-2007, 10:22 AM
I'm guessing Carroll has learned a few things since his stint with the Pats.
(from Wiki)
Carroll was hired for the next season by the San Francisco 49ers, where he served as defensive coordinator for the following two seasons (1995-96). His return to success as the defensive coordinator led to his hiring as the head coach of the New England Patriots in 1997, replacing respected coach Bill Parcells, who had resigned after disputes with the team's ownership. His 1997 Patriots team won the AFC East division title, but his subsequent two teams did not fare as well—losing in the wild card playoff round in 1998, and missing the playoffs after a late-season slide in 1999—and he was fired after the 1999 season. Patriot's owner Robert Kraft said firing Carroll was one of the toughest decisions he has had to make since buying the team, stating "A lot of things were going on that made it difficult for him to stay, some of which were out of his control. And it began with following a legend."[5] His combined NFL record as head coach was 33-31.
----------------------
As of November 3, 2007, Carroll is 72-14 as a head coach at USC. His team won a school-record 34 straight games from 2003-2005, a streak that started after a triple-overtime loss to California and ended with the national championship game in the 2006 Rose Bowl, against Vince Young's Texas Longhorns. During his tenure, USC has broken its average home attendance record four times in a row, without any stadium expansions (they play at the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum); the USC home attendance average in 2001, his first season, was 57,744; by 2006 it was over 91,000.
Besides, I think it would be a nice change to go from an offensive mastermind to a defensive one.
socalorado
11-06-2007, 10:22 AM
Isn't it funny over time how Carroll becomes a good NFL coach when in fact he was horrible. The guy can sell car's and bring in recruits, couldn't coach an NFL team to save his life.
Carroll was the head coach of the NFL's New England Patriots for 3 seasons (1997-99) and New York Jets for 1 year (1994). He guided the Patriots into the playoffs in his first 2 seasons, winning the AFC Eastern Division title at 10-6 in 1997 and advancing to the second round of the playoffs, then posting a 9-7 regular season mark in 1998. His overall record in New England was 27-21 in the regular season (including 8-8 in 1999) and 1-2 in the playoffs. He owns the franchise's second-best winning percentage (54.9%).
After serving as the Jets' defensive coordinator for 4 seasons (1990-93), he became the team's head coach the following season. His 1994 Jets went 6-10. Only 3 other Jets head coaches won more games in their rookie campaign.
He spent the next 2 years (1995-96) as the defensive coordinator with the San Francisco 49ers, who won the NFC Western Division title both seasons. The 49ers were 11-5 in the 1995 regular season when they had the NFL's top-ranked defense and then went 12-4 in 1996.
socalorado
11-06-2007, 10:23 AM
Rohirrim, L!OL!! Were on the same page man!!
rugbythug
11-06-2007, 10:25 AM
He's not only the HEAD COACH, but the GM with final decisions on personnel. What should we do give him a 'pass'? I don't think so. He bears the brunt of their poor performance. Why? He gets the big bucks to ensure they don't look like dogsh!t. Well, mission failed on his part wouldn't you say? Nothing wrong with holding someone accountable when they quite honestly ARE NOT earning their paycheck from where I sit..dman
Would you please jump off of the bridge already? You seem to think that there are teams in the NFL that win every game for 10 years.
Want to know how good Shanahan is. If Shanny decided he wanted a change of Venue 28 teams would be interested and 10 or more would give us 2 first round draft picks.
defenseman
11-06-2007, 10:26 AM
Carroll did squat in the NFL and got fired twice from two jobs. What is he a career .500 coach?
And the team spent millions plus 5 draft picks on first day players, all on defense and you think Shanahan has allowed the defense to erode?
Seriously where do you come up with his stuff?
His record was 27-21 with the pats over 3 yrs. He made the playoffs with the pats his first two years coaching and Kraft let him go his third year.....dman
Rohirrim
11-06-2007, 10:27 AM
Would you please jump off of the bridge already? You seem to think that there are teams in the NFL that win every game for 10 years.
Want to know how good Shanahan is. If Shanny decided he wanted a change of Venue 28 teams would be interested and 10 or more would give us 2 first round draft picks.
Done! Where do we sign? ;D
rugbythug
11-06-2007, 10:30 AM
His record was 27-21 with the pats over 3 yrs. He made the playoffs with the pats his first two years coaching and Kraft let him go his third year.....dman
Of Course Parcells took that team to the Superbowl before him. And Bellicheck took it after him.
defenseman
11-06-2007, 10:33 AM
Would you please jump off of the bridge already? You seem to think that there are teams in the NFL that win every game for 10 years.
Want to know how good Shanahan is. If Shanny decided he wanted a change of Venue 28 teams would be interested and 10 or more would give us 2 first round draft picks.
Are you implying he's the best out there right now? I'd say, if that is the case, you've got your blinders installed quite tight. There is always someone available to come in and improve the situation. The hard part is finding them.
Shanahan is 'stale' and unimaginative from where I sit. He needs to shift his rudder and breath some life into a lifeless team. I question his ability to do that given what I've seen so far this year. Again, watching him frantically pour over his notes on the sidelines, when the game is getting out of hand, and finding no answers in his "masterminds's bible", well, that says it all to me. I believe he's lost his edge, for whatever reason, and needs to get it back. In the meantime, the organization needs to look around to see what is out there, simple as that..dman
Jens1893
11-06-2007, 10:34 AM
Thoughts on Bob Stoops?
Eldorado
11-06-2007, 10:35 AM
Silly me, I thought it was Ben Rothlisberger and the Steelers that embarrassed the Broncos at home in the AFC championship game 2 season ago. I will work on getting my facts straight and then get back to you.
Right. Exactly. IN THE AFC CHAMPIONSHIP GAME!! DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY COACHES NEVER EVEN GET TO ONE??
This ones for you. :punched:
defenseman
11-06-2007, 10:35 AM
Done! Where do we sign? ;D
Ro, you want him gone? I don't yet, but he continues to build on making a case for exactly that as the season progresses. At the minumum, he needs to unload GM. Stick to coaching, since it appears that's where he continues to fall short presently..dman
Rohirrim
11-06-2007, 10:36 AM
Of Course Parcells took that team to the Superbowl before him. And Bellicheck took it after him.
Parcells lost that one. And Bellychick's first year he went 5 and 11.
obediah
11-06-2007, 10:41 AM
Pete Carroll.
i would get a stiffy
fontaine
11-06-2007, 10:42 AM
He's not only the HEAD COACH, but the GM with final decisions on personnel. What should we do give him a 'pass'? I don't think so. He bears the brunt of their poor performance. Why? He gets the big bucks to ensure they don't look like dogsh!t. Well, mission failed on his part wouldn't you say? Nothing wrong with holding someone accountable when they quite honestly ARE NOT earning their paycheck from where I sit..dman
How the hell do you know he's not earning his paycheck?
So you hold Shanahan accountable for all the injuries that have wiped out the roster?
Please, this was a decent team at the start of the season with one major flaw. Our run defense. Now it's compounded to every unit in the team because of the amount of injuries we've had. If you want to hold Shanahan accountable for that fine. But in the real world NFL it doesn't work that way.
defenseman
11-06-2007, 10:43 AM
Thoughts on Bob Stoops?
I have no idea on the guy. I do know he's done a fairly consistent job in college...dman
Rohirrim
11-06-2007, 10:44 AM
Ro, you want him gone? I don't yet, but he continues to build on making a case for exactly that as the season progresses. At the minumum, he needs to unload GM. Stick to coaching, since it appears that's where he continues to fall short presently..dman
I'm just answering the thread title. Some people are Shanahan fans and some people are Bronco fans. I've been a Broncos' fan through, let me see, four or five coaches. Some people seem to think nobody else is as wonderful as Shanahan. ??? I'd take Belichick and Pioli in a friggin heartbeat over Shanahan and Sundquist when it comes to putting a franchise together (although I think Mike is the better gameday coach). If Shanahan decided to hang it up, or if Bowlen decided to move on, IMO, Carroll would be an excellent replacement. People think there's nobody else out there. The next Belichick is out there. The next Bill Walsh is out there. The trick is finding them.
Hell, players got tired of listening to Tom Landry and Shula. Sometimes you have to start over. I don't know if the Broncos are there yet, but my loyalty is not to any coach.
fontaine
11-06-2007, 10:49 AM
Are you implying he's the best out there right now? I'd say, if that is the case, you've got your blinders installed quite tight. There is always someone available to come in and improve the situation. The hard part is finding them.
Shanahan is 'stale' and unimaginative from where I sit. He needs to shift his rudder and breath some life into a lifeless team. I question his ability to do that given what I've seen so far this year. Again, watching him frantically pour over his notes on the sidelines, when the game is getting out of hand, and finding no answers in his "masterminds's bible", well, that says it all to me. I believe he's lost his edge, for whatever reason, and needs to get it back. In the meantime, the organization needs to look around to see what is out there, simple as that..dman
Well that sells it for me.
I mean when a fan watching the coach thinks he looks like he's lost his edge because he's going through his playbook in an unconvincing fashion, then you definitely have to get rid of that coach even though he's one of the most successful in the league.
While we're at it, I'd like to add in my two cents and say I saw Belichick on the sidelines and boy did he look dishevelled in his cut off sweat shirt. He obviously has lot his edge and the Pats need to look outside the organization to find a coach, who at least can wear a proper sweat shirt.
defenseman
11-06-2007, 10:50 AM
I'm just answering the thread title. Some people are Shanahan fans and some people are Bronco fans. I've been a Broncos' fan through, let me see, four or five coaches. Some people seem to think nobody else is as wonderful as Shanahan. ??? I'd take Belichick and Pioli in a friggin heartbeat over Shanahan and Sundquist when it comes to putting a franchise together (although I think Mike is the better gameday coach). If Shanahan decided to hang it up, or if Bowlen decided to move on, IMO, Carroll would be an excellent replacement. People think there's nobody else out there. The next Belichick is out there. The next Bill Walsh is out there. The trick is finding them.
Hell, players got tired of listening to Tom Landry and Shula. Sometimes you have to start over. I don't know if the Broncos are there yet, but my loyalty is not to any coach.
Pretty much my thoughts. Bottom line is, NO ONE is irreplaceable, that includes the "mastermind" M. Shanahan. Best start looking now, he's looking pretty damn stale these days and either 're-invents himself' in so many words, or it's time to move on. Either way, it's about the broncos, not the "coaches" of the broncos...dman
Eldorado
11-06-2007, 11:08 AM
Well that sells it for me.
I mean when a fan watching the coach thinks he looks like he's lost his edge because he's going through his playbook in an unconvincing fashion, then you definitely have to get rid of that coach even though he's one of the most successful in the league.
While we're at it, I'd like to add in my two cents and say I saw Belichick on the sidelines and boy did he look dishevelled in his cut off sweat shirt. He obviously has lot his edge and the Pats need to look outside the organization to find a coach, who at least can wear a proper sweat shirt.
Ahhahahah!! Hilarious! Oh dude, thank you. I was starting to get really mad here. The levity and sarcasm was much needed and appreciated.
sirhcyennek81
11-06-2007, 11:20 AM
Pretty much my thoughts. Bottom line is, NO ONE is irreplaceable, that includes the "mastermind" M. Shanahan. Best start looking now, he's looking pretty damn stale these days and either 're-invents himself' in so many words, or it's time to move on. Either way, it's about the broncos, not the "coaches" of the broncos...dman
2 Seasons removed from an AFCCG appearance and the Broncos are stale. I suppose having 4 new starters on the offensive line, new starters at RB, FB, QB, WR and TE have no impact on how the offense operates. There simply is no coach better right now for this team. Get over it and enjoy the team. Seasons like this happen, you don't scrap your entire coaching staff because of it.
:Broncos:
defenseman
11-06-2007, 11:24 AM
2 Seasons removed from an AFCCG appearance and the Broncos are stale. I suppose having 4 new starters on the offensive line, new starters at RB, FB, QB, WR and TE have no impact on how the offense operates. There simply is no coach better right now for this team. Get over it and enjoy the team. Seasons like this happen, you don't scrap your entire coaching staff because of it.
:Broncos:
did I say the broncos are 'stale'? Nope, just shanahan IMHO. Don't be surprised if he's gone next year, NOTHING is forever, including the mastermind in denver. the smart man knows when it's time, it may be that time if you are looking hard enough...dman
Rohirrim
11-06-2007, 11:30 AM
I think there are some people on this board with blinders on. The Broncos are not in the position they are in now simply because of some injuries and rookies. They are in this position because the FO, of which Mike Shanahan is president, has drafted poorly and done even worse in free agency. What came before is the path to where we are now. This situation just didn't pop up out of the ground. Now, Bowlen has to decide if this is just the tough start to a new direction and stick with it, or a continuation of a pattern that just isn't going to cut it, and move in a new direction. We're just fans. We can only sit on the sidelines and bitch. ;D
SouthStndJunkie
11-06-2007, 11:34 AM
My choice would be: Rob Chudzinski, the Browns offensive coordinator.
He is going to be highly sought after in the near future.
broncofan2438
11-06-2007, 11:36 AM
I think i heard Pete Carrol.....that would be awsome, but would never happen
Broncomutt
11-06-2007, 11:37 AM
Thats just it. There really isnt someone with a resume that makes you feel solid about whoever it might be. Plus on top of that, we have the personnel to run a particular kind of offense, so unless you completely wipe the slate clean, you have to work within that framework.
Just because I'm not an NFL scout or executive and don't have a list of names at my fingertips, doesn't mean nobody else is out there. Twelve years ago I felt that Wade needed to go, but I didn't know Shanny would be such a fine replacement at the time.
I should be clear on this point, I don't think Shanny is a bad coach. I think he is a great coach. I think if he left for another team, that team would become a yearly contender. While I would like to see him move on and have great success (just not against us), part of me knows he could land in San Diego or even KC and that would be scary.
I just think Shanny has grown stale here and he just may not realize it. he seems burnt out to me. I don't see that same killer instinct, that same fire (ie. that laser beam stare) he used to have. I haven't or awhile. His personnel decisions have been not so great either. I could be wrong, but it doesn't feel wrong to me, hence my opinion.
If we are going to wipe the slate clean, now is as good a time as any. While we are sinking like a rock.
Rohirrim
11-06-2007, 11:40 AM
I think i heard Pete Carrol.....that would be awsome, but would never happen
I don't see why not. I think Pete would love another shot at the big show. Nobody turns down the Denver Broncos coaching slot. It's like what Torre said about taking the helm at the Dodgers. Some franchises you just don't say no to.
fontaine
11-06-2007, 11:42 AM
did I say the broncos are 'stale'? Nope, just shanahan IMHO.
Really, how do you think Shanahan has gone stale? I mean apart from your obvious opinion ofcourse that "he's lost his edge" because he's going through his playbook in an unconvincing manner.
Please explain to us what personal insight you have to back that up?
fontaine
11-06-2007, 11:46 AM
Just because I'm not an NFL scout or executive and don't have a list of names at my fingertips, doesn't mean nobody else is out there. Twelve years ago I felt that Wade needed to go, but I didn't know Shanny would be such a fine replacement at the time.
I should be clear on this point, I don't think Shanny is a bad coach. I think he is a great coach. I think if he left for another team, that team would become a yearly contender. While I would like to see him move on and have great success (just not against us), part of me knows he could land in San Diego or even KC and that would be scary.
I just think Shanny has grown stale here and he just may not realize it. he seems burnt out to me. I don't see that same killer instinct, that same fire (ie. that laser beam stare) he used to have. I haven't or awhile. His personnel decisions have been not so great either. I could be wrong, but it doesn't feel wrong to me, hence my opinion.
If we are going to wipe the slate clean, now is as good a time as any. While we are sinking like a rock.
This is probably one of the most honest posts I've seen on this thread. Well done.
There's nothing wrong with posting your opinion here and you did a good job. I disagree with it but I can see where you're coming from.
Traveler
11-06-2007, 11:48 AM
I think there are some people on this board with blinders on. The Broncos are not in the position they are in now simply because of some injuries and rookies. They are in this position because the FO, of which Mike Shanahan is president, has drafted poorly and done even worse in free agency. What came before is the path to where we are now. This situation just didn't pop up out of the ground. Now, Bowlen has to decide if this is just the tough start to a new direction and stick with it, or a continuation of a pattern that just isn't going to cut it, and move in a new direction. We're just fans. We can only sit on the sidelines and b****. ;D
Best comment on this entire thread IMO. Keep the coach, restructure the FO, Scouting Department, and re-assign some authority.
El Guapo
11-06-2007, 11:48 AM
Franchione. He'll be available!!!
You guys are all nuts. I'm sticking on on the Shannahan bandwagon, thank you very much.
socalorado
11-06-2007, 11:48 AM
Really, how do you think Shanahan has gone stale? I mean apart from your obvious opinion ofcourse that "he's lost his edge" because he's going through his playbook in an unconvincing manner.
Please explain to us what personal insight you have to back that up?
I dont think his insight is wrong, but i also notice that alot of writers in DEN seem to have the same insight as well. As a matter of fact, i notice alot of just posters here and elsehwere think that he's kinda lost his edge.
Whats so suprising about that opinion?
Stormontheplains
11-06-2007, 11:51 AM
Taking over for Mike would be like taking over for John Elway. Nobody in their right mind would want to be the first one to replace mike. And by the way, unless you have acess to the game tapes, you do not have the ability to say the offense is stale and the play calling bad. Mike is very good at protecting his players and not stating that Jay has missed 200 reads, or meyers call the wrong blocks 22 times in detroit. He deflects and protects, until people need to be called out.
Rohirrim
11-06-2007, 11:51 AM
As a general rule, I don't believe a HC should EVER be president of a franchise.
Really, how do you think Shanahan has gone stale? I mean apart from your obvious opinion ofcourse that "he's lost his edge" because he's going through his playbook in an unconvincing manner.
Please explain to us what personal insight you have to back that up?
Three (3) rushing TDs this season.
Redzone scoring Touch downs
Lack of making adjustments (blocking) to save his QB from being pounded.
Also lets not forget the AFC Championship game, when he refused to adjust to the Steelers rush and let Lepsis get owned by Joey Porter.
Jay has stated, more than once, when he was asked about the redzone issues:
"We talk about this every week,"
"I run what's called"
-----
NFL coaches earn both their pay and reputation in the Redzone.
Get 7's and not 3's
socalorado
11-06-2007, 12:03 PM
Taking over for Mike would be like taking over for John Elway. Nobody in their right mind would want to be the first one to replace mike. And by the way, unless you have acess to the game tapes, you do not have the ability to say the offense is stale and the play calling bad. Mike is very good at protecting his players and not stating that Jay has missed 200 reads, or meyers call the wrong blocks 22 times in detroit. He deflects and protects, until people need to be called out.
Ah NO! ANY coach would LOVE to come to Dove Valley and coach here. Thats why they coach, for a chance like this!
Beantown Bronco
11-06-2007, 12:05 PM
They are in this position because the FO, of which Mike Shanahan is president, has drafted poorly and done even worse in free agency.
And yet the draft/free agency juggernaut of Belicheck and Pioli continue to get praised.....despite having only one great year of free agent pickups (this year, obviously) and completely whiffing with this year's draft class. But because they are winning, nobody says anything about all the prior year free agent stiffs they signed.....or the fact that they've already cut pretty much the entire 2007 draft class. Talk about a free pass.
fontaine
11-06-2007, 12:05 PM
I dont think his insight is wrong, but i also notice that alot of writers in DEN seem to have the same insight as well. As a matter of fact, i notice alot of just posters here and elsehwere think that he's kinda lost his edge.
Whats so suprising about that opinion?
Because it's grasping at straws.
How can you say Shanahan has gone stale when Gary Kubiak who is coaching in Houston to some degree of success has based most of what he's doing from what he's learned from Mike?
Looking at how our offense started out the season. We were running a more diverse playbook with Cutler and our offense at one point was tops in the league in yards game until the bottom fell out due to injuries with Walker/OL/Henry etc.
Calling Shanahan stale is just a quick, and lazy answer instead of investigating the real causes of what's wrong with this team, but MOST of all it's wrong because it's ignoring the great progress done so far in the offense with guys like Cutler, and Marshall.
You think defenses game plan around this team by saying "guys we don't need to worry about Broncos offense because Mike is stale, it's all on him?"
Hell no. The first thing you do is put your best DL on the fresh blood along our interior OL. Be it stunts, twists whatever. Send pressure up the middle to test out how our new guys handle it. Then contain the perimeter because we're ineffective running up the middle etc etc.
Talk to me about the X's and O's on this team in terms of its weakenesses rather than heresay with opinions of Mike going stale.
Because you know what? If you go by media types and fans, there are plenty of young coaches in the league that get painted by the similar brush and their failures explained by one line simplifications such as "Oh he's a new coach, he's still learning."
If you're coaching the same team too long then it's the same sh*t different coach.
[QUOTE=Stormontheplains;1776830]Taking over for Mike would be like taking over for John Elway. Nobody in their right mind would want to be the first one to replace mike.QUOTE]
You could have said the same thing about replacing:
Tom Landry
Chuck Noll
Bill Walsh
I think it's not about being in your right mind.
It's about taking on the challenge to replace the predecessor.
If a person doesn't want to take on the challenge, then he's not the right coach.
Jimmy Johnson, Bill Cowher, and George Seifert all took on the challenge.
There's a coach out there that is waiting for a challenge.
Garcia Bronco
11-06-2007, 12:15 PM
As a general rule, I don't believe a HC should EVER be president of a franchise.
Mike Shanahan is the Vice President of Fottball operations. He also employs a GM who has a job and he's been doing it well.
Man-Goblin
11-06-2007, 12:51 PM
I always figured Rod Smith would be the guy to take over for Shanahan someday. And no, I'm not necessarily talking about right now.
But would it realy be that implausible? Rod, right now, would be older than I believe at least 3 head coaches in the league.
Maximus
11-06-2007, 01:14 PM
Because it's grasping at straws.
How can you say Shanahan has gone stale when Gary Kubiak who is coaching in Houston to some degree of success has based most of what he's doing from what he's learned from Mike?
Serious flaw in logic Cum hoc ergo propter hoc
Garcia Bronco
11-06-2007, 01:16 PM
I think i heard Pete Carrol.....that would be awsome, but would never happen
How many times does Carroll need to fail at the NFL level for people to take his name out of their mouths?
Just because I'm not an NFL scout or executive and don't have a list of names at my fingertips, doesn't mean nobody else is out there. Twelve years ago I felt that Wade needed to go, but I didn't know Shanny would be such a fine replacement at the time.
I should be clear on this point, I don't think Shanny is a bad coach. I think he is a great coach. I think if he left for another team, that team would become a yearly contender. While I would like to see him move on and have great success (just not against us), part of me knows he could land in San Diego or even KC and that would be scary.
I just think Shanny has grown stale here and he just may not realize it. he seems burnt out to me. I don't see that same killer instinct, that same fire (ie. that laser beam stare) he used to have. I haven't or awhile. His personnel decisions have been not so great either. I could be wrong, but it doesn't feel wrong to me, hence my opinion.
If we are going to wipe the slate clean, now is as good a time as any. While we are sinking like a rock.
Without an alternative its just not a very compelling argument. Sorry.
Crowpointer
11-06-2007, 01:20 PM
I heard Mangenius is going to available at seasons end.LOL
I'm just answering the thread title. Some people are Shanahan fans and some people are Bronco fans. I've been a Broncos' fan through, let me see, four or five coaches. Some people seem to think nobody else is as wonderful as Shanahan. ??? I'd take Belichick and Pioli in a friggin heartbeat over Shanahan and Sundquist when it comes to putting a franchise together (although I think Mike is the better gameday coach). If Shanahan decided to hang it up, or if Bowlen decided to move on, IMO, Carroll would be an excellent replacement. People think there's nobody else out there. The next Belichick is out there. The next Bill Walsh is out there. The trick is finding them.
Hell, players got tired of listening to Tom Landry and Shula. Sometimes you have to start over. I don't know if the Broncos are there yet, but my loyalty is not to any coach.
You nailed it on the head. Great all around post. Rep
NFLBRONCO
11-06-2007, 01:22 PM
Why would a guy with a great gig jump to much harder NFL that's crazy.
My choice would be: Rob Chudzinski, the Browns offensive coordinator.
He is going to be highly sought after in the near future.
Thats not bad. Someone also said Jason Garrett and he might be intriguing as well.
But to those who said Carroll, I laugh in your general direction. The last time we saw him with the Patriots he was completely overmatched by Shanahan. And the time he has spent at USC isnt enough to sway me that its still not so when you consider that in practically every game at USC, Carroll has had more talent than the team across the field. You dont have that kind of talent disparity in the NFL and you are also not recruiting talent. What he currently has at USC is the equivalent of a #1 draft pick at every position since USC has all blue chippers.
I mentioned Jeff Tedford earlier. He has done a good job of making his personnel play better than it is, especially at QB. Plus they have been competitive with USC when being undermanned. He is also an offense slanted coach.
But really, there arent a lot of viable options.
Crowpointer
11-06-2007, 01:30 PM
And yet the draft/free agency juggernaut of Belicheck and Pioli continue to get praised.....despite having only one great year of free agent pickups (this year, obviously) and completely whiffing with this year's draft class. But because they are winning, nobody says anything about all the prior year free agent stiffs they signed.....or the fact that they've already cut pretty much the entire 2007 draft class. Talk about a free pass.
Moss and Welker were trades for draft picks (for a second and a fourth repectively) not free agents. We traded a first for SF's first this year which right now is fifth overall. We traded our 3rd for Oak 2008 3rd rounder which will be like a 2nd. As far as Merriweather I think the jury is still out since he was never going to step in as a starter. We hit the 2007 draft out of the park.
Rohirrim
11-06-2007, 01:32 PM
And yet the draft/free agency juggernaut of Belicheck and Pioli continue to get praised.....despite having only one great year of free agent pickups (this year, obviously) and completely whiffing with this year's draft class. But because they are winning, nobody says anything about all the prior year free agent stiffs they signed.....or the fact that they've already cut pretty much the entire 2007 draft class. Talk about a free pass.
Oh, give the drama a break. Anybody the Pats draft now has to break into a championship lineup. The Broncos have had the opposite problem. Finding anybody who's good enough to create a lineup.
Sir Mawn
11-06-2007, 01:39 PM
Several years back half the board wanted Shanahan's head. Next thing we know we're in the AFC Championship Game and NOBODY said a word anymore. And now, we're at it again.
Amazing.
Broncomutt
11-06-2007, 01:42 PM
Without an alternative its just not a very compelling argument. Sorry.
No need to be sorry. I am not trying to convert anyone and can respect the opinion that he should stay. I simply see it differently.
If you think Broncomutt's lack of candidates means Shanahan is a great coach, stick with that logic.
No need to be sorry. I am not trying to convert anyone and can respect the opinion that he should stay. I simply see it differently.
If you think Broncomutt's lack of candidates means Shanahan is a great coach, stick with that logic.
Thats fine. Nevermind thinking Shanahan is great. He could be good or even average and it would still be a bad idea to not replace him with someone as good or better. If were not careful, it could easily get a lot worse. I dont like everything that happens either, but I have to take a step back and when I do, its apparent that we could be a lot worse off and also that there arent really that many obvious candidates.
Eldorado
11-06-2007, 02:01 PM
Just because I'm not an NFL scout or executive and don't have a list of names at my fingertips, doesn't mean nobody else is out there. Twelve years ago I felt that Wade needed to go, but I didn't know Shanny would be such a fine replacement at the time.
I should be clear on this point, I don't think Shanny is a bad coach. I think he is a great coach. I think if he left for another team, that team would become a yearly contender. While I would like to see him move on and have great success (just not against us), part of me knows he could land in San Diego or even KC and that would be scary.
I just think Shanny has grown stale here and he just may not realize it. he seems burnt out to me. I don't see that same killer instinct, that same fire (ie. that laser beam stare) he used to have. I haven't or awhile. His personnel decisions have been not so great either. I could be wrong, but it doesn't feel wrong to me, hence my opinion.
If we are going to wipe the slate clean, now is as good a time as any. While we are sinking like a rock.
Damn..this place is a mess.
ugh!~
yavoon
11-06-2007, 02:04 PM
Thats fine. Nevermind thinking Shanahan is great. He could be good or even average and it would still be a bad idea to not replace him with someone as good or better. If were not careful, it could easily get a lot worse. I dont like everything that happens either, but I have to take a step back and when I do, its apparent that we could be a lot worse off and also that there arent really that many obvious candidates.
thats the spirit, dont fire shanny, we could REALLY SUCK!
haha.
Beantown Bronco
11-06-2007, 02:05 PM
Moss and Welker were trades for draft picks (for a second and a fourth repectively) not free agents. We traded a first for SF's first this year which right now is fifth overall. We traded our 3rd for Oak 2008 3rd rounder which will be like a 2nd. As far as Merriweather I think the jury is still out since he was never going to step in as a starter. We hit the 2007 draft out of the park.
I specified "draft class", not veterans brought in by trades, etc.
Looking solely at the "draft class", I see 9 selections and only 4 of those 9 even making the team (including practice squad) the first year. That's some stellar retention there.
And Rohirrim, I'm not looking for starters right out of the gate for these folks in New England....but I am looking for more than just 4 out of 9 to at least make the practice squad.
thats the spirit, dont fire shanny, we could REALLY SUCK!
haha.
Its true and it interfaces with what Ive been saying about there not being a lot of better options.
yavoon
11-06-2007, 02:16 PM
Its true and it interfaces with what Ive been saying about there not being a lot of better options.
if u were to make this thread last year and ppl were to say "what about mike tomlin" u would poo-poo that answer too, and yet tomlin so far looks like an amazing head coach. its easy to poo-poo anyone in comparison to shannahan who isn't bill parcells or bill cowher or someone like that. but I'm not convinced shannahan has done anything particularly great in the last 4 years. I'm not convinced he has coached better than say rod marinelli.
everyone says he is a "great" x's and o's guy. where? I dont see any great innovation I see the same plays we ran under plummer that made me desperately want a real qb. and OMG the free agent acquisitions would make matt millen snicker.
your entire game in this thread is a slight of hand. you want to use shannahan's "name" to poo-poo all alternatives while ignoring the fact that he is coaching about as well as a lot of much less named coaches right now.
another thing I have w/ shannahan is there have been problems w/ this team for half a decade or more that never get addressed.
1)passing game from the pocket, even w/ cutler now we still dont want to become a real passing team
2)goal line offense, isnt this where the mastermind is suppose to make us good?
3)defensive scheme, compared to bates I LIKE coyer and I didn't like coyer.
Beantown Bronco
11-06-2007, 02:20 PM
if u were to make this thread last year and ppl were to say "what about mike tomlin" u would poo-poo that answer too, and yet tomlin so far looks like an amazing head coach.
I love how this misconception continues to spread. Why do people keep saying this? What has Tomlin done that has made him "an amazing head coach." He has been summarily out-coached by Shanny and Whisenhunt so far this season (coaches of two teams that don't have nearly the talent that the Steelers do) and has beaten some pretty poor teams. Big whoop.
What great coaching decisions has he made again?
yavoon
11-06-2007, 02:24 PM
I love how this misconception continues to spread. Why do people keep saying this? What has Tomlin done that has made him "an amazing head coach." He has been summarily out-coached by Shanny and Whisenhunt so far this season (coaches of two teams that don't have nearly the talent that the Steelers do) and has beaten some pretty poor teams. Big whoop.
What great coaching decisions has he made again?
we'll see in the long run I guess. he strikes me as a good hard nosed coach that is willing to let his coordinators coordinate. I think thats a great setup. remember he is a tampa two coach and the steelers didnt even switch defensive scheme.
shannahan is "the mastermind" in which supposedly we get basically a super-coordinator who is too good of a coordinator to not be a head coach. but I'm not seeing any dividends from that.
fontaine
11-06-2007, 03:37 PM
if u were to make this thread last year and ppl were to say "what about mike tomlin" u would poo-poo that answer too, and yet tomlin so far looks like an amazing head coach. its easy to poo-poo anyone in comparison to shannahan who isn't bill parcells or bill cowher or someone like that. but I'm not convinced shannahan has done anything particularly great in the last 4 years. I'm not convinced he has coached better than say rod marinelli.
everyone says he is a "great" x's and o's guy. where? I dont see any great innovation I see the same plays we ran under plummer that made me desperately want a real qb. and OMG the free agent acquisitions would make matt millen snicker.
your entire game in this thread is a slight of hand. you want to use shannahan's "name" to poo-poo all alternatives while ignoring the fact that he is coaching about as well as a lot of much less named coaches right now.
another thing I have w/ shannahan is there have been problems w/ this team for half a decade or more that never get addressed.
1)passing game from the pocket, even w/ cutler now we still dont want to become a real passing team
2)goal line offense, isnt this where the mastermind is suppose to make us good?
3)defensive scheme, compared to bates I LIKE coyer and I didn't like coyer.
You make some good points yavoon and I'll answer the three questions you posed.
1. Passing from the pocket. We may not be a total passing team but Cutler has proven that he can handle it on third downs and crucial passing situations. Obviously with a young gun there is a period of adjustment and I think we're well on the way to improving in that area. Walker and Rod being out doesn't help.
2. Goal Line: this is an area of concern. But I refer to the 2005 season when four out of five OL were healthy and played all games with a good power back in Anderson. We were among the league leaders in that area and Plummer playing efficiently helped as well. So it's not a case of Shanahan can't do it anymore but like all teams, we need the necessary talent to make it happen as well.
3. Coyer: I completely agree and have said before numerous times that Shanahan's real blind spot is on defense. Be it selecting defensive talent or continuity in the d-coaching position Shanahan does not have a sterling record in that department. But like all winning coaches he needs good coordinators and I feel we should have stuck with Coyer and supplemented the D with pass rushers.
But are Shanahan's defensive weakenesses a real reason to fire him? I say no.
And as far as Tomlin is concerned I've got two words for you: Denny Green.
yavoon
11-06-2007, 03:43 PM
You make some good points yavoon and I'll answer the three questions you posed.
1. Passing from the pocket. We may not be a total passing team but Cutler has proven that he can handle it on third downs and crucial passing situations. Obviously with a young gun there is a period of adjustment and I think we're well on the way to improving in that area. Walker and Rod being out doesn't help.
2. Goal Line: this is an area of concern. But I refer to the 2005 season when four out of five OL were healthy and played all games with a good power back in Anderson. We were among the league leaders in that area and Plummer playing efficiently helped as well. So it's not a case of Shanahan can't do it anymore but like all teams, we need the necessary talent to make it happen as well.
3. Coyer: I completely agree and have said before numerous times that Shanahan's real blind spot is on defense. Be it selecting defensive talent or continuity in the d-coaching position Shanahan does not have a sterling record in that department. But like all winning coaches he needs good coordinators and I feel we should have stuck with Coyer and supplemented the D with pass rushers.
But are Shanahan's defensive weakenesses a real reason to fire him? I say no.
I'm not necessarily in the total fire him camp. but the status quo camp has to go.
1)at the least shannahan has to be stripped of all decision making in personnel.
2)we have to stop all this scheme talk, good coaches put players in position. look at bellicheat, he had a good running game, then a bad running game, then a good one. he's had small posession receivers, now he has incredibly fast ones. he's had all sorts of bizarre defensive injuries. around bronco-land though every player has to "fit the scheme" like we're trying to find the crankshaft for a 1932 ford or something.
if both of that happens and shannahan goes back to being a super-coordinator coach AND does it well then he is worth keeping. but he has to be stripped of his invulnerability and all personnel decisions.
if u were to make this thread last year and ppl were to say "what about mike tomlin" u would poo-poo that answer too, and yet tomlin so far looks like an amazing head coach. its easy to poo-poo anyone in comparison to shannahan who isn't bill parcells or bill cowher or someone like that. but I'm not convinced shannahan has done anything particularly great in the last 4 years. I'm not convinced he has coached better than say rod marinelli.
everyone says he is a "great" x's and o's guy. where? I dont see any great innovation I see the same plays we ran under plummer that made me desperately want a real qb. and OMG the free agent acquisitions would make matt millen snicker.
your entire game in this thread is a slight of hand. you want to use shannahan's "name" to poo-poo all alternatives while ignoring the fact that he is coaching about as well as a lot of much less named coaches right now.
another thing I have w/ shannahan is there have been problems w/ this team for half a decade or more that never get addressed.
1)passing game from the pocket, even w/ cutler now we still dont want to become a real passing team
2)goal line offense, isnt this where the mastermind is suppose to make us good?
3)defensive scheme, compared to bates I LIKE coyer and I didn't like coyer.
Ive acknowledge other possible replacements. Not Carrol. Hes not the answer but possibly Garrett, Chudzinski, or Tedford. Dont pretend like Im shooting down all ideas. As a matter of fact, I said Im just not comfortable with just anyone.
sirhcyennek81
11-06-2007, 03:52 PM
I'm not necessarily in the total fire him camp. but the status quo camp has to go.
1)at the least shannahan has to be stripped of all decision making in personnel.
2)we have to stop all this scheme talk, good coaches put players in position. look at bellicheat, he had a good running game, then a bad running game, then a good one. he's had small posession receivers, now he has incredibly fast ones. he's had all sorts of bizarre defensive injuries. around bronco-land though every player has to "fit the scheme" like we're trying to find the crankshaft for a 1932 ford or something.
if both of that happens and shannahan goes back to being a super-coordinator coach AND does it well then he is worth keeping. but he has to be stripped of his invulnerability and all personnel decisions.
He did not have a GM in 95, 96, 97, 98. Broncos set a franchise mark for wins in that period, players were outstanding and Mike made good picks in the draft.
:Broncos:
yavoon
11-06-2007, 03:55 PM
He did not have a GM in 95, 96, 97, 98. Broncos set a franchise mark for wins in that period, players were outstanding and Mike made good picks in the draft.
:Broncos:
ok so lets just take this horrible drafting and disasterous FA signing for 10 more years, then in 2017 you can tell me how in 1995 he totally did good.
fontaine
11-06-2007, 04:00 PM
I'm not necessarily in the total fire him camp. but the status quo camp has to go.
1)at the least shannahan has to be stripped of all decision making in personnel.
I already think this is the case. When it comes to offense Shanahan should call the shots, but defensively it's pretty clear that he takes a lot of advice and puts stock into what the coaches there want.
2)we have to stop all this scheme talk, good coaches put players in position. look at bellicheat, he had a good running game, then a bad running game, then a good one. he's had small posession receivers, now he has incredibly fast ones. he's had all sorts of bizarre defensive injuries. around bronco-land though every player has to "fit the scheme" like we're trying to find the crankshaft for a 1932 ford or something.
if both of that happens and shannahan goes back to being a super-coordinator coach AND does it well then he is worth keeping. but he has to be stripped of his invulnerability and all personnel decisions.
I think you're oversimplifying. The Pats had thousand yard rushers in Smith and then Corey Dillon to carry the load there. And really does it matter who's catching the ball as long as Brady is throwing it?
As for the defensive injuries, Bellichick has still had plenty of good personnel along the front 7 to execute the 3-4 when guys like McGinest, Vrabel, Wilfork, Warren etc were around. Their injury problems mostly stemmed from their secondary and no doubt about it they did a stunning job in covering up that area.
NFLBRONCO
11-06-2007, 04:12 PM
Dan Hawkins
defenseman
11-06-2007, 04:16 PM
I already think this is the case. When it comes to offense Shanahan should call the shots, but defensively it's pretty clear that he takes a lot of advice and puts stock into what the coaches there want.
I think you're oversimplifying. The Pats had thousand yard rushers in Smith and then Corey Dillon to carry the load there. And really does it matter who's catching the ball as long as Brady is throwing it?
As for the defensive injuries, Bellichick has still had plenty of good personnel along the front 7 to execute the 3-4 when guys like McGinest, Vrabel, Wilfork, Warren etc were around. Their injury problems mostly stemmed from their secondary and no doubt about it they did a stunning job in covering up that area.
Good coaching, and motivated players find a way to get the job done is what you are saying here. Bellicheat, is quite a coach actually. Too bad he's such an a$$ about everything else..dman
telluride
11-06-2007, 04:29 PM
Hire Parcells as GM, and Garrett as coach.
NFLBRONCO
11-06-2007, 04:36 PM
Hire Marty to build this team fire him and hire a guy for SB.
elsid13
11-06-2007, 04:46 PM
Ah NO! ANY coach would LOVE to come to Dove Valley and coach here. Thats why they coach, for a chance like this!
I would hate to be the coach following Shanahan. Shanahan's shadow would be over anything that guy did, and if was immediately competitive (AFC Champ or SB) it be unbearable.
socalorado
11-06-2007, 05:41 PM
Ive acknowledge other possible replacements. Not Carrol. Hes not the answer but possibly Garrett, Chudzinski, or Tedford. Dont pretend like Im shooting down all ideas. As a matter of fact, I said Im just not comfortable with just anyone.
I like Carroll too. Call me biased.
colonelbeef
11-06-2007, 06:10 PM
Pete Carroll? Jim Fassel? You turkeys have to be joking.
Give Shanahan a few years with Cutler. Also, remember to be embarrassed about your failure to see 2007 for what it is- terrible luck compounding a rebuilding year- in the future, when you are sitting there in your cutler jersey 2 years from now, watching january broncos football, toasting the genius of mike shanahan for blowing up a good team and good qb to get his hands on a great qb. Damned bandwagon fans. I will take pete carroll on the broncos sidelines only if he has pompoms in hand. Guy is at best a cheerleader.
DeusExManning
11-06-2007, 08:26 PM
Wouldn't that be hilarious if Schottenheimer finally got his super bowl in Denver!
ohiobronco2
11-06-2007, 10:34 PM
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned one of the winningest head coaches in college football over the last 5 years. Jim Tressel of course. All joking aside, I still think Shanahan is a great coach, but he's terrible when it comes to personel decisions. How we've been able to win despite his poor scouting abilities only proves what a great coach he is.
Broncoman13
11-06-2007, 10:51 PM
The only way I'd be comfortable bringing in a new coach is if we brought in somebody young and then a big name to be the GM. Hell, Marty to GM and then Garrett to HC wouldn't be a bad bet. Don't think it's better than Shanny though. I wonder if Shanny and Marty could co-exist. Shanny tells Marty what he needs, Marty goes and gets it on his terms... nah!
NFLBRONCO
11-06-2007, 10:55 PM
I thing that is working in Shanny's favor is we are in a crappy division so we look alot better even if we aren't. So I think their will be less heat on him vs us being the only struggling team in this division.
No1BroncoFan
11-06-2007, 10:55 PM
The only way I'd be comfortable bringing in a new coach is if we brought in somebody young and then a big name to be the GM. Hell, Marty to GM and then Garrett to HC wouldn't be a bad bet. Don't think it's better than Shanny though. I wonder if Shanny and Marty could co-exist. Shanny tells Marty what he needs, Marty goes and gets it on his terms... nah!
I've never liked Marty as a head coach because he can never get it done in the post-season, but I've always thought he'd be a freakin' awesome GM for somebody. He's scary good at evaluating talent, especially defensive talent.
Ben
~Crash~
11-06-2007, 10:56 PM
Dan Hawkins
LOL the guy was the Boise State Broncos coach ....I will say this the guy has a good noodle ...:sunshine:
Crowpointer
11-07-2007, 07:10 AM
I specified "draft class", not veterans brought in by trades, etc.
Looking solely at the "draft class", I see 9 selections and only 4 of those 9 even making the team (including practice squad) the first year. That's some stellar retention there.
And Rohirrim, I'm not looking for starters right out of the gate for these folks in New England....but I am looking for more than just 4 out of 9 to at least make the practice squad.
The king of half truths . Why don't you include the fact the picks were two 7th rounders four 6th rounders and one fifth rounder, and two of these (Lua and Richardson who were the best in preseason) got placed on IR.