3rd and Must Score on the 4

[Vegas_Bronco]

Losing the game on a dumb call (put this on Shanny's Shoulders):

After an amazing Selvin Young rush on 1st down - dancing around 5 defenders turning a 3 yard loss into a 12 yard gain (9 yard net), we were faced with a 2nd and 1 on the GB 3 yard line. The game was down to the wire with 0.25 left in the game and the Broncos trailing 10-13.

We take a timeout to discuss our options and obviously chose 2 plays to run, the first was an out to Marshall which was just long and wide as Jay released the ball incomplete.

So, now we are faced with 3rd and 1 with 0:22 (clock stopped due to incomplete pass)....THIS IS WHERE I NEED HELP....Shannahan calls for a Shotgun double slot formation and A QB DRAW/SNEAK???? I couldn't believe it??? What in the F OR H was he thinking??? We couldn't run all night, our receivers were open all night, and Jay to Scheff is money on the goaline - WHY WOULD YOU MAKE THIS HORRID CALL??? Instead of passing the ball, Shanny elects to run a Draw play which ultimately ends up turning into NO GAIN, THE CLOCK RUNNING, AND YOU ONLY SETTLE FOR THE TIE SCORE.

This was the worst coaching decision I have seen in a long time, in fact, I'm watching over his shoulder as my 'belief' in him w/out Kubes is doubting. Does Shanny really some mental interference inside his head that turns off when we hit the red zone? Not only was it sloppy call, it was weak, low percentage, and to say it best STOOOPID!!! I was jumping out of my seat last night, scared my family away, and wanted to kick a dog - but I don't have a dog!

Help me justify this one....I'm still reeling from that call. I feel like Shanny just made a selfish Mike Martz call when the game was on the line and I'm really upset about it.

[Que]

I agree, that call was stupid. Hell, throw it to the full back or TE in the flat. It ALWAYS works. That or look for Sheff on a crossing pattern. I would even take a fade in the corner for Marshall over that lame a$$ call. If you are going to try a QB sneak, at least line up in 5 wide so it has a snowball's chance in hell of working.

[go_broncos]

Losing the game on a dumb call (put this on Shanny's Shoulders):

After an amazing Selvin Young rush on 1st down - dancing around 5 defenders turning a 3 yard loss into a 12 yard gain (9 yard net), we were faced with a 2nd and 1 on the GB 3 yard line. The game was down to the wire with 0.25 left in the game and the Broncos trailing 10-13.

We take a timeout to discuss our options and obviously chose 2 plays to run, the first was an out to Marshall which was just long and wide as Jay released the ball incomplete.

So, now we are faced with 3rd and 1 with 0:22 (clock stopped due to incomplete pass)....THIS IS WHERE I NEED HELP....Shannahan calls for a Shotgun double slot formation and A QB DRAW/SNEAK???? I couldn't believe it??? What in the F OR H was he thinking??? We couldn't run all night, our receivers were open all night, and Jay to Scheff is money on the goaline - WHY WOULD YOU MAKE THIS HORRID CALL??? Instead of passing the ball, Shanny elects to run a Draw play which ultimately ends up turning into NO GAIN, THE CLOCK RUNNING, AND YOU ONLY SETTLE FOR THE TIE SCORE.

This was the worst coaching decision I have seen in a long time, in fact, I'm watching over his shoulder as my 'belief' in him w/out Kubes is doubting. Does Shanny really some mental interference inside his head that turns off when we hit the red zone? Not only was it sloppy call, it was weak, low percentage, and to say it best STOOOPID!!! I was jumping out of my seat last night, scared my family away, and wanted to kick a dog - but I don't have a dog!

Help me justify this one....I'm still reeling from that call. I feel like Shanny just made a selfish Mike Martz call when the game was on the line and I'm really upset about it.

It looks like shanny has no confidence in Cutler.
He is afraid that cutler will do mistake.

I was a big fan of shanny and now it's time for him to retire....

[Garcia Bronco]

So you say it's the play calling and then detail out how the players didn't execute. Sure coaches are going to call bad plays, but get real. The hole was there for Jay....he just didn't get it quickly enough. He didn't execute it right. But he's 12 games in and looking better all the time.

[ro_50]

Why not do a rollout where you give Cutler a run/pass option.

I mean, come on, give me a break. That was one of the worst play calls I've seen inside the 5-yard line.

[maher_tyler]

So you say it's the play calling and then detail out how the players didn't execute. Sure coaches are going to call bad plays, but get real. The hole was there for Jay....he just didn't get it quickly enough. He didn't execute it right. But he's 12 games in and looking better all the time.

Yep...can't believe nobody has said it but it was his first game without an interception.

[pdvd23]

Bend but not break, playing not to lose and going for the tie Shanahan. That is such pussy football. 2:30 left in the game 1st and 10 we run for 0 yards and let the time burn down to the 2 minute warning. At this point every packer fan in our section was cheering their asses off for Shanny. 4 dump passes, a time out, and 40 seconds later we had gained another 10 yards. A heroic effort by Marshall on a play that should have only gone for maybe eight yards put us into your afore mentioned situation.

The run by selvin down to the 4 also killed us by forcing the last time out and for the most part loss of a play by not getting the first down.

[Antilles]

pure speculation on my part, but it looked to me like Cutler audibled to the keeper.

[pdvd23]

So you say it's the play calling and then detail out how the players didn't execute. Sure coaches are going to call bad plays, but get real. The hole was there for Jay....he just didn't get it quickly enough. He didn't execute it right. But he's 12 games in and looking better all the time.

What coach at any level would call a qb sneak from the shot gun with 24 seconds, no time outs, on a team that has stopped the run basically all night. Execution or not that was poor play calling. In that situation do you honestly think that Belichick or Dungy would would have called the game the same way.

[Garcia Bronco]

What coach at any level would call a qb sneak from the shot gun with 24 seconds, no time outs, on a team that has stopped the run basically all night. Execution or not that was poor play calling. In that situation do you honestly think that Belichick or Dungy would would have called the game the same way.

Maybe...maybe not. I don't know what Bill or Manning would do in that situation or what either person would call. Bottom line is Jay should have got that ball in the endzone. The team had ample time and downs to get the ball in the endzone. They didn't execute. They'll get better.

[go_broncos]

What coach at any level would call a qb sneak from the shot gun with 24 seconds, no time outs, on a team that has stopped the run basically all night. Execution or not that was poor play calling. In that situation do you honestly think that Belichick or Dungy would would have called the game the same way.

Even Norv Turner/Kiffin/Art Shell will not call QB sneak..

[Garcia Bronco]

Even Norv Turner/Kiffin/Art Shell will not call QB sneak..

You can't testify to what any coach would call. It's ridiculous.

[SoonerBronco]

So you say it's the play calling and then detail out how the players didn't execute. Sure coaches are going to call bad plays, but get real. The hole was there for Jay....he just didn't get it quickly enough. He didn't execute it right. But he's 12 games in and looking better all the time.


Calling Bull chit on that one. Whoever there DT was blew that play up from the beginning. Other than some spectacular runs by Selvin, we had NO RUNNING GAME! Roll Cutler out and let him buy time and find the open guy...how many times did that work before in the game? Sorry, I think anyone would have called a pass in that situation. Get the win for petes sake!

[SoonerBronco]

You can't testify to what any coach would call. It's ridiculous.

And you are blind to think there was a hole there...

[jmz313]

Bad play call no doubt. Play to win. that was playing not to lose.

[broncsyanks]

So you say it's the play calling and then detail out how the players didn't execute. Sure coaches are going to call bad plays, but get real. The hole was there for Jay....he just didn't get it quickly enough. He didn't execute it right. But he's 12 games in and looking better all the time.

sorry to disagree here. i watched it several times in amazment myself. the hole was not there. i also disagree i thought a rollout or at least a pass would have been better because if he makes an incomplete pass the clock stops the team still comes out and kicks the tie. i do agree with you totally that he does look better. but in the end wins is what matters and we are not doing it, also we have no deep threat with the loss of walker so we better figure out something

[SonOfLe-loLang]

They had a TD on the play before that Cutler couldn't execute. It was the right call, Marshall was open and Cutler threw it too far behind him.

[Garcia Bronco]

sorry to disagree here. i watched it several times in amazment myself. the hole was not there. i also disagree i thought a rollout or at least a pass would have been better because if he makes an incomplete pass the clock stops the team still comes out and kicks the tie. i do agree with you totally that he does look better. but in the end wins is what matters and we are not doing it, also we have no deep threat with the loss of walker so we better figure out something

We'll be fine. Bottom line is whatever the calll the players must execute it. Cutler could have got it done on the sneak. Next time he'll do better.

[Garcia Bronco]

And you are blind to think there was a hole there...

It was right there. He could have gotten in.

[Atwater His Ass]

I didn't mind the playcall. However, what I didn't like was the offense not ready to line up and spike the ball if Cutler got the first but not the TD. This would have given us at least 1 more shot to score.

I don't really know what we do there though to be honest. We have no power running game. Our OL was getting blown off the ball on every short yardage play all night. We could pass, but obvisouly Shanny thought we could catch them off guard with the keeper draw.

I do find it funny though that had that play suceeded, everyone would be saying what a great play call. This thread wouldn't exist. It's pretty poor form to be a second hindsight 20/20 kind of guy the day after a loss. We had other chances to win that game and we let them slip. It's not like this was our only opportunity to put GB away.

[Garcia Bronco]

It's not like this was our only opportunity to put GB away.

And that's really the key right there.

[Dos Rios]

I don't mind a sneak in that situation, but I wonder why the plays weren't called in the reverse order. Try the sneak on 2nd and if it doesn't work you line up quickly and try the pass on 3rd. If the pass fails, you've stopped the clock.

[broncswin]

Garcia is right, the hole was there, it is not like it stayed open for 2 seconds, but in the NFL it was open long enough for a guy like Jay to get through. I am not saying it was the best play call in the book, but execution is key here. Jay hesistated and that will get your a$$ stuffed every damn time, just ask Tatum Bell!!! I do see a lot of positives out of this game for our O, we had a lot of young and inexperienced guys in there getting the job done. Penalties, and a huge turnover got us. I am much more dissapointed with our defensive performance than Shanny's play calling.

I also hate when people say we were lucky to even be in that position, because Marshall should have been stopped for a short gain. He is a playmaker, that is what they due, it is not luck, but rather skill.

GO BRONCOS!!

[pdvd23]

I also hate when people say we were lucky to even be in that position, because Marshall should have been stopped for a short gain. He is a playmaker, that is what they due, it is not luck, but rather skill.

I wasn't saying we were lucky to be there and I do expect playmakers to make big plays, but with two minutes left it didn't even look like we were trying to throw a big strike down the field. It was just dump, dump, dump in the middle of the field wasting clock hoping that someone would break a tackle.

[Stormontheplains]

sorry to disagree here. i watched it several times in amazment myself. the hole was not there. i also disagree i thought a rollout or at least a pass would have been better because if he makes an incomplete pass the clock stops the team still comes out and kicks the tie. i do agree with you totally that he does look better. but in the end wins is what matters and we are not doing it, also we have no deep threat with the loss of walker so we better figure out something

GO back and watch the play again. I was thinking the same thing as shanny except I would have went with no back. I believe that cutler showed he might run, watch the tape and see how he is not looking at the recievers, i saw the lb's noticing that and started to creep in the middle. Maybe I am smoking crack, but i was thinking that play, and for some reason by the way jay was acting I knew before he snapped it.

[Traveler]

Terrible play call to be surer. WHy don't they let Cutler loose? Shanahan definitely played not to lose.

And to top it off, I bet not one of the local sportswriters will ask him why he chose to run the QB sneak instead of a run/pass option.

[fontaine]

And you are blind to think there was a hole there...

There was. Until Sapp ran in and slipped inside the hole to block it.

And then Cutler ran inside of taking it outside and ran into sapp and tripped up.

The idea was to get Sapp through to a LBer but instead he ended up blocking up the hole and Cutler with him.

It's not the first time or the last when one of our RB converted to FBs is going to get outmuscled in the trenches.

[Vegas_Bronco]

Okay for all you who are in a state of denial...I won't name names but you can 'see above' :)

1) Jay wasn't picked off only b/c the GB defenders couldn't catch...he had 3 dropped potential INT's - 2 on the same drive...so technically he only had 2 that could have been pix. He was good, but was horrible in the pocket-where is his composure? He had it last year and now seems to hold the ball WAY TO LONG and missing his options. Marshall was wide open on 4 different plays where Jay was staring down Scheff and Stokley. It's gotta get better in the next 8 games.

2) Even if there was a 'hole' as claimed on the draw, why chance it, it is a low percentage, poor play...we needed the clock to stop as we were out of TO's and simply needed a TD or a 1st down. If a 1st, spike the ball and run another play with 8-11 seconds left. If that play goes bad, kick to FG. Poor game management! The decision to pick that play tied our hands and we were forced to kick the FG - which was the worst and last option we wanted. If Jay saw the LB's creeping in...why not audible to the pass? I'm lost as to why this was even an option in this situation? It netted us nothing that we already didn't have!

3) Jay on a QB keeper was horrid...we all agree. I am not ripping the players but I am ripping the playcaller...If it was Cutler who audibled, then WTF? Maybe Jay has no confidence in Jay? - but I doubt that! If the play was called by Shanny then it is just the tip of the ice berg. The whole series was poorly orchestrated and poorly managed and that you can put on Shanny's shoulders.

4) If the play would have scored, sure we would all be singing his praises, but I doubt we would be any more impressed with our effort in the victory. We are winning and losing by playing real dirty and unimpressive football - as they stated last night, we are known as the team that could easily be '0-6'. We have talent and youth but playing to your opponents ability is never the sign of a great team or a team getting better. You either win big or lose big if you are a young team with greatness.

The reason I post this BS mainly is b/c I want this team to get better and the victory was within grasp but when it came down to the call...It was a poor choice that really breeds discontent and a lack of confidence - neither which should be part of this team, especially when it originates from the top Shanny dog.

[Atwater His Ass]

I think you're wrong on pretty much every count there Vegas.

[vancejohnson82]

that play was dumb as hell

[55CrushEm]

Normally, I think Kiszla is a jerk.....but he's spot on here.....

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_7317484

[Vegas_Bronco]

I think you're wrong on pretty much every count there Vegas.

Not wrong, just mad, upset, and tired of losing the games we should have won. We ended the game in a tie - when we had 2min in the game on the opponents 30 yard line and couldn't get a score with a 1st and goal. :oyvey: not good!

[watermock]

Poor call. Rollout., You go 4 it on 4th down too.

[bpc]

I'll blame a little bit on the playcalling.... a lot on the execution inside that 10 yard line.

Cutler had Marshall open on that first pass pattern and just blew the throw. We've seen a lot of teams run that spread attack for a draw to score a TD. Elway's done it a bunch. I don't think Cutler had ran that before and literally tripped himself up running. We just haven't run it live in game action and it showed. Subsequently we lost the game. You would hope that if we run that again, it will be successful.

[bpc]

Okay for all you who are in a state of denial...I won't name names but you can 'see above' :)

1) Jay wasn't picked off only b/c the GB defenders couldn't catch...he had 3 dropped potential INT's - 2 on the same drive...so technically he only had 2 that could have been pix. He was good, but was horrible in the pocket-where is his composure? He had it last year and now seems to hold the ball WAY TO LONG and missing his options. Marshall was wide open on 4 different plays where Jay was staring down Scheff and Stokley. It's gotta get better in the next 8 games.



I think you are reaching hard on this. A lot of QB's have passes that should be picked but get dropped. All that matters is the final statistic. Cutler's had some passes this year that shouldn't have been picked but WR's made bad plays with the ball and it happened. Nothing you can do but move on.

If he was bad from the pocket which I disagree with, you should look at the OLine. They were the one's allowing players to get to Cutler a bunch, forcing him to make awkward throws.

Like I said, I basically don't agree with your first assessment. Cutler was not the main problem on this night.

[go_broncos]

Not wrong, just mad, upset, and tired of losing the games we should have won. We ended the game in a tie - when we had 2min in the game on the opponents 30 yard line and couldn't get a score with a 1st and goal. :oyvey: not good!

It is so frustrating ..
i am unable to concentrate on my work.

[Vegas_Bronco]

Like I said, I basically don't agree with your first assessment. Cutler was not the main problem on this night.

I agree, it was not Cutler who was the 'main problem'...I was just simply pointing out that he could have had a pick or two off of some errant throws, most likely due to poor pass blocking/collapsing pocket - we were lucky that those passes were dropped. Jay did great as I stated but he did have his share of mistakes which is easy to do when you touch the ball on every play. The topic of the thread deals with the last series of the game. It wasn't my idea to critic Jay's play...I was responding to the 'NO INTs' comment earlier in the thread.

[Stormontheplains]

Jay has not called an audible all season long, that is why you guys have a problem with playing calling, they show blitz, we run into it, it is Jay's job to get us out of that. The sneak call was a good idea, poorly executed.

[55CrushEm]

Jay has not called an audible all season long, that is why you guys have a problem with playing calling, they show blitz, we run into it, it is Jay's job to get us out of that. The sneak call was a good idea, poorly executed.

Then we just disagree......IMO, a sneak from the 1-yard line is one thing....but to try it from 4 yards out is another......

[pdvd23]

Shanahan is stuck in 1998 and the rest of the NFL has passed him by. You can see that he sticks to his game plan religiously never adapting or changing through out the game. It is the same plays or the same form of play every year and the other teams have caught on. In the Elway years when Shanny was fresh teams would have fits trying to gameplan for our offense because they had no clue what to expect. Now it is so vanilla that I guarantee that 90% of this cite can predict his coveted first fifteen plays.

[Beantown Bronco]

Then we just disagree......IMO, a sneak from the 1-yard line is one thing....but to try it from 4 yards out is another......

not to mention the fact that the formation they utilized also appeared to be less than ideal for running a sneak.

[Vegas_Bronco]

Then we just disagree......IMO, a sneak from the 1-yard line is one thing....but to try it from 4 yards out is another......

55 that is exactly what the NFL coaching consensus would say too - why from 4 yards out? with no TO's with 0:22 on the clock and on a 3rd down? needing a TD to win?

[ant1999e]

This was the worst coaching decision I have seen in a long time, in fact, I'm watching over his shoulder as my 'belief' in him w/out Kubes is doubting.

This may be the key.

[Stormontheplains]

not to mention the fact that the formation they utilized also appeared to be less than ideal for running a sneak.

Typically you would send the back in motion to run that play, maybe he thought if he showed max proctect they would buy the pass. You have marshall who can go get the ball, scheff, stoakley in the slot, I would imagine their looking pass the whole time except for young in the backfield.

The NFL has not passed shanny by you fricking retard. The entire first and 2cd quarter he shows many looks to find matchups to exploit, he is way ahead of other coaches. You have to have a smart experienced qb to run the o, and audible out of the play. Jay will get that, but probally next year. Also he only has one reciever right now who can run good routes, that's why we need rod back, he can find the soft spot in zones, give jay the easy crossing and drag routes and leadership in the huddle, as well as engaging him on the sideline, talking through what is going on.

[ozomulsion]

S***TY call by a washed up coach, who has a team that lost the game at the coinflip in overtime. Nothing more, nothing less...

[Vegas_Bronco]

Shanny is a good coach - the mastermind...he is known for racking up huge yardage with nothing to show for it - lol! These two comments are really causing some pain for this team...last night it was just as blatant and as obvious as it could have ever been and that is frustrating. I'm not calling for Shanny's head, just some change in the red zone and last minute game management. Isn't there a CE course he can take through the NFL?

[Cito Pelon]

I agree that the 2nd and 1 was a horrible play call. You just don't run in that situation, with no timeouts, with that amount of time on the clock, needing 6 to win outright, knowing 3 is not the way to go. It's a no-brainer, it really is - that had to be a passing play.

It was amateurish, and Shanny should feel like a fool.

[55CrushEm]

I don't understand why we don't put Jay in the shotgun more often.

Hell, that seemed to be the standard formation for Elway for years.....and even now....I see Brady in the shotgun ALOT....even with the great o-line that he has.

[broncswin]

Last week we were talking about how this guy out coached the ball coach from pitt, now since we lose we are throwing his a$$ back in the dumpster. Come on guys, look at what we are doing here, we had a very young and inexperienced group out there tonight and played a very good GB team, these guys are on a roll this year. If it were not for the bad break fumble on the 1, this would have been a whole different game. I can garuntee you Shanny didn't call for a fumble on that play.
I f-ing hated the outcome of the game, but was very pleased with the play of our qb with out many of his weapons. Once again he proves he can lead his team in crunch time.

[broncswin]

I don't understand why we don't put Jay in the shotgun more often.

Hell, that seemed to be the standard formation for Elway for years.....and even now....I see Brady in the shotgun ALOT....even with the great o-line that he has.

I agree with that 100%, he seems to settle down and I think he gets a better feel for what the D is setting up in. I also think with Selvin back there, he would benefit from this in both the run and protection blocking.

[Beantown Bronco]

Last week we were talking about how this guy out coached the ball coach from pitt, now since we lose we are throwing his a$$ back in the dumpster.

He wasn't coaching against Omar Epps this week. :)

[Vegas_Bronco]

Bwin - I don't think anyone wants to dispose of him as a coach...errr maybe a few in here; but, for the most part, we like Shanny. I'm asking him to take responsibility for this one and to make a change. He should have controlled the game to win and what I saw was mismanagement and confusion which resulted in a tie. He was outworked by his own ignorance. Step up and own this one Shanny, make some changes and make it right...we want a good football team win or lose...not one that looks like a mess or disarray inside the red zone.

I think we got insight into his 'idea' of red zone success a few weeks ago when he was questioned why he was only 50% successful inside the red zone. He replied with something to the effect of: 'do you know what the league average is? It's just under 50%' - IMO, we shouldn't be satisfied with the 'league average', I know the most successful teams inside the red zone are not 'average' and know how to close out a game.

[broncswin]

Bwin - I don't think anyone wants to dispose of him as a coach...errr maybe a few in here; but, for the most part, we like Shanny. I'm asking him to take responsibility for this one and to make a change. He should have controlled the game to win and what I saw was mismanagement and confusion which resulted in a tie. He was outworked by his own ignorance. Step up and own this one Shanny, make some changes and make it right...we want a good football team win or lose...not one that looks like a mess or disarray inside the red zone.

Agree, I go crazy with his calls as much as the next guy, we just need to step it up next week and beat a good Lions squad!

GO BRONCOS!!

[Stormontheplains]

Agree, I go crazy with his calls as much as the next guy, we just need to step it up next week and beat a good Lions squad!

GO BRONCOS!!

Broncwin, have you seen jay call an audible, do you see him calling out the mike backer for the lineman??? By the way how is it going?

[BroncoMan4ever]

if he was so intent on a QB keeper why not use play action i mean Green Bay was biting on that every time Denver used it. Play action bootleg and today Denver is tied for 1st in the division.

[Crushaholic]

At least I'm not the only one baffled by that sneak attempt. Unless Shanahan thought that Denver still had a timeout, it should never have been attempted. The defenders were loading the box and it was a good time to seal off the right side and rollout pass/run left to the goalline.

[Maximus]

I agree, that call was stupid. Hell, throw it to the full back or TE in the flat. It ALWAYS works. That or look for Sheff on a crossing pattern. I would even take a fade in the corner for Marshall over that lame a$$ call. If you are going to try a QB sneak, at least line up in 5 wide so it has a snowball's chance in hell of working.

I'm loving this... I'm not pointing this at you Que... This fan base forgets that John Elway would have dove into the end zone and won the game... Shanarat is living in the past. That was a typical Elway call that would have worked in 1998. Cutler is not elway and the Rat already knows it... this is why the game plan is scaled back.

[Stormontheplains]

At least I'm not the only one baffled by that sneak attempt. Unless Shanahan thought that Denver still had a timeout, it should never have been attempted. The defenders were loading the box and it was a good time to seal off the right side and rollout pass/run left to the goalline.

Go to denverbroncos.com and listen to Jay after the game. He stated that they kept two linebackers in even though they were in trips my question then would have been "Jay, Why did you not audible out of that play if you seen it wasnt going to work?" I am not bashing Jay, but he could have audibled once the second lb came in the box

[bpc]

I'm loving this... I'm not pointing this at you Que... This fan base forgets that John Elway would have dove into the end zone and won the game... Shanarat is living in the past. That was a typical Elway call that would have worked in 1998. Cutler is not elway and the Rat already knows it... this is why the game plan is scaled back.

Did you watch Elway play in his first or second season? Obviously not because even back then, Elway wasn't Elway.

You don't sleep on a playbook and learn it... you go out on to the field, play, make mistakes and learn from that.

Cutler will be fine and of course, winning a lot more games and division championships vs. Russell.

[Garcia Bronco]

Shanahan is stuck in 1998 and the rest of the NFL has passed him by. You can see that he sticks to his game plan religiously never adapting or changing through out the game. It is the same plays or the same form of play every year and the other teams have caught on. In the Elway years when Shanny was fresh teams would have fits trying to gameplan for our offense because they had no clue what to expect. Now it is so vanilla that I guarantee that 90% of this cite can predict his coveted first fifteen plays.

Not true at all and that idea that he doesn't adjust is utter bull****. Read his book. People think this way because they don't see us rolling teams like in 98. I say you are projecting and it is you stuck in 1998.

[defenseman]

At least I'm not the only one baffled by that sneak attempt. Unless Shanahan thought that Denver still had a timeout, it should never have been attempted. The defenders were loading the box and it was a good time to seal off the right side and rollout pass/run left to the goalline.

I almost through my beer at the TV when that play was called. Playing not to lose again eh Shanny? Pretty pissed off at the time. Then again, this year? Par for the course. He simply doesn't trust them. It shows. ..........dman

[defenseman]

Not true at all and that idea that he doesn't adjust is utter bull****. Read his book. People think this way because they don't see us rolling teams like in 98. I say you are projecting and it is you stuck in 1998.

Disagree. Your job, as a HEADcoach, is to put your team in the best position to win the ball game. Calling a running play with ZERO time outs, :22 clicks on the clock, from the three yard line, needing a TD to "WIN" is NOT putting your team in the best position for a victory. You have two shots at the end zone if you are throwing the ball, toss it through the uprights if it's not there and kick the FG. He doesn't trust his offense right now and is playing not to lose, simple as that. I could care less if he won the last ten SB's. It was the wrong call...dman

*Then again the "keystone cops" drill at the end was mildly entertaining. I haven't watched a good comedy in a while and got a good chuckle out of it.

[Beantown Bronco]

He doesn't trust his offense right now and is playing not to lose, simple as that.

I agree.......but......in 2005, Shanny called the entire season that way because he didn't trust Plummer. Remember the whole good plummer/bad plummer debate. He tightened the leash quite a bit that season and it managed to get them a 13-3 regular season and rode it all the way to the AFC Championship game.

Sometimes it works and people love you for it....but if it doesn't......look out.

[Smiling Assassin27]

Herm needs to have a talk with Shanahan:

YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME!!


This team isn't gonna win a division or a superbowl so it's time to let Jay open it up, not keep one arm tied behind his back.

[55CrushEm]

I agree.......but......in 2005, Shanny called the entire season that way because he didn't trust Plummer. Remember the whole good plummer/bad plummer debate. He tightened the leash quite a bit that season and it managed to get them a 13-3 regular season and rode it all the way to the AFC Championship game.

Sometimes it works and people love you for it....but if it doesn't......look out.

Then WTF did we draft Cutler for ?!? That was the point....to get away from this conservative BS.....

[defenseman]

Then WTF did we draft Cutler for ?!? That was the point....to get away from this conservative BS.....

Yep, I vote turn him loose, let them run, throw, whatever the situation deems to "BEST" put them into a position to win, quit playing "not to lose". There are no winners when a half a$$ed effort is "forced" on highly competitive profootball players........dman

[Beantown Bronco]

Then WTF did we draft Cutler for ?!? That was the point....to get away from this conservative BS.....

I agree.....but I think 8 years of NOT trusting the QB has taken a little bit of a toll on Shanny and he's just going to need a little more time to relax and trust himself and Cutler to open it back up.

Trust isn't earned overnight, certainly. And Shanny has just gone through 8 years of questionable QB play.....you can tell that he WANTS to trust Cutler based off what he says in the press conferences. It's always glowing. He just needs to fully convince himself to actually do it on gameday (I'm sure Cutler's string of games with at least one INT haven't helped matters, though).

[toad]

On the road, maybe you run that QB draw.....at home, however, you gotta take a strike at the endzone for the win.

[broncswin]

Broncwin, have you seen jay call an audible, do you see him calling out the mike backer for the lineman??? By the way how is it going?

I haven't seen him audible out all year, after watching his presser, i was a little shocked that he wouldn't audible out knowing they were stacking the middle anticipating run. I think Jay is gonna be special for us, he managed the game well I thought, and basically played mistake free. I think he does however need to get more comfortable with making decisions on audibles after identifing the defense.

[RhymesayersDU]

pure speculation on my part, but it looked to me like Cutler audibled to the keeper.

Yikes, this is going to turn into the "Jake Plummer's INT @ San Diego" part 2 debate.

[BroncoMan4ever]

i am gonna say it this year is a rebuilding year and because of that Shanny needs to take the leash off Cutler and let him play his game. Let him get ready to kick some ass next season. Cutler has all the tools needed to become an elite QB for years to come, but first he needs to clear his head from everyone giving him crap for his rookie mistakes and just play the way he can.
Injury has killed this team, now how about letting Cutler use his arm learn the playbook so it is automatic to him.
Shanny drafted the guy because of his big play arm and i can't think of the last time i saw him throw anything deeper than a 30yard pass down the middle of the field. Shanny and the organization say he has an arm to make all the necessary throws, lets see it.

And i don't want to hear that the team can't go deep without Javon in the lineup because that is crap. Marshall, Stokely and any of the other young guys can catch those deep balls. Hell Lelie did it for a season with weak armed Plummer throwing the ball.

[broncswin]

Then WTF did we draft Cutler for ?!? That was the point....to get away from this conservative BS.....

I think shanny knows what rushing a young QB can do, Jay only has 12 starts under his belt, I know it gets old hearing that, but all in all I think he is way ahead of the process. He is starting to manage the game better and with this last game being clean, I see Shanny loosening the handcuffs and letting Jay call some audibles.:thumbs:

[telluride]

It really all comes down to our awful awful coordinators. Bates and Dinger can't call a decent game, make proper in-game adjustments, or create effective schemes. And Shanny, for whatever reason, allows their mediocrity to continue. We need better coordinators -- stat!

[Popps]

How about some play-action and a boot?

I hated the call, as well. Easy to say after it didn't work, but I sort of knew as soon as I saw him take the snap we were screwed. GB was looking for it.

[55CrushEm]

I think shanny knows what rushing a young QB can do, Jay only has 12 starts under his belt, I know it gets old hearing that, but all in all I think he is way ahead of the process. He is starting to manage the game better and with this last game being clean, I see Shanny loosening the handcuffs and letting Jay call some audibles.:thumbs:

I hear ya.....but I don't want just a game manager.....I want a world-beater to go out and TAKE these fuggin' games!! Jake Plummer was a manager, cause that's all he was capable of.