View Full Version : Holding call on Marshall
CSU Husker
10-30-2007, 01:29 AM
For the most part I try not to complain about officiating, but that call looked terrible to me and was a huge turning point in the game. Am I nuts here thinking that call was BS? I think if they dont call that we get a TD there and win. This is the most frustrating/disappointing loss in a long time.
Ratboy
10-30-2007, 01:30 AM
It was a bull**** call.
Those refs were bending both teams over and ****ing them in the ass.
Malcontent
10-30-2007, 01:31 AM
I like candy.
That call was crap. And on top of the bad call, it looked to me like the Green Bay player mailed it in, just assuming that Young would run out of bounds. He could have easily given Young a hard shove and ended the play if he wasn't dogging it.
Garcia Bronco
10-30-2007, 01:32 AM
Except the GB defense was playing a little agressively after the plays. They earned everyone of those personal fouls. One of those asshats might have ended Lynch's career.
SoCalBronco
10-30-2007, 01:33 AM
That was a horrible call.
go_broncos
10-30-2007, 01:33 AM
For the most part I try not to complain about officiating, but that call looked terrible to me and was a huge turning point in the game. Am I nuts here thinking that call was BS? I think if they dont call that we get a TD there and win. This is the most frustrating/disappointing loss in a long time.
It happens ..we just need to move on..
I am more worried abt our defense(we will be facing LJ,LT and peterson in coming weeks)
400HZ
10-30-2007, 01:41 AM
I thought the officiating blew ass tonight.
You all summed it up. Terrible call.
Popps
10-30-2007, 01:47 AM
Terrible call, but much less significant than 14 points we handed away by crapping ourselves at the goal-line.
azbroncfan
10-30-2007, 01:56 AM
20+ penalties. Both teams got the shaft. Send the refs back to school so they can learn to let the guys play.
enjolras
10-30-2007, 01:59 AM
Ya... keep in mind this team generated 13 damn points of offense.
For the most part I try not to complain about officiating, but that call looked terrible to me and was a huge turning point in the game. Am I nuts here thinking that call was BS? I think if they dont call that we get a TD there and win. This is the most frustrating/disappointing loss in a long time.
No, youre perfectly right in complaining about that. This is the kind of call someone makes when theyre looking to do you in.
Punisher
10-30-2007, 02:31 AM
I broke a glass cup when i seen the replay it was bull**** and i really think the refs was betting on green bay on that game.
Kaylore
10-30-2007, 02:47 AM
They didn't "let them play" tonight. I thought they made some crap calls both way. I also thought they were horribly inconsistent in what goes and what doesn't. Maybe it was that they were down a man.
BTW, I hope that guy is going to be ok. He looked like he busted a wheel.
frerottenextelway
10-30-2007, 02:55 AM
It was a bad call. They had 2 bad calls against GB our opening drive. The refs sucked, but they weren't why we lost.
BroncoBuff
10-30-2007, 03:01 AM
Pure BS. We definitely got a LOTTA calls, but that holding nonsense on Selvin's 50-yard run probably cost us the ballgame.
Doggcow
10-30-2007, 03:12 AM
I think the NFL borrowed a PAC-10 officiating crew for this one.
Yes it was THAT bad.
Punisher
10-30-2007, 03:12 AM
Pure BS. We definitely got a LOTTA calls, but that holding nonsense on Selvin's 50-yard run probably cost us the ballgame.
Man please someone hunt down that ref...what did he see really brandon didint do anything at all..It was a OHH NOO WHAT THE HELL call
BowlenBall
10-30-2007, 03:15 AM
There were way, way, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too many flags in that game, but they were called both ways. The Brandon Marshall holding call was crap, but certainly not anything malicious. The refs obviously had decided that they were going to "call it tight" during this game, and they did. No conspiracy here, people.
A real shame that the Selvin Young run was called back, though, as he earned those yards and put in a good position to win the game. This kid is going to be a player for us, he's quite a bit better than Mike Bell was last year, IMO.
BroncoBuff
10-30-2007, 03:17 AM
Terrible call, but much less significant than 14 points we handed away by crapping ourselves at the goal-line.
Yeah! Forget about the clock management at the end for now, I can't get my brain around that tonight ....
But WTF DID CHIRS KUPER SLAP THE BALL OUTTA JAY'S HAND?!?!?!
cutthemdown
10-30-2007, 06:30 AM
Terrible call, but much less significant than 14 points we handed away by crapping ourselves at the goal-line.
That's probably the only game changing play Kuper will ever get to make. To bad he made it for wrong team. Great forced fumble there Kuper. I said we would miss Hamilton but I didn't think it would mean our guards would start popping the ball out of QBS hands at 1 yrd line. I can't put into words how crappy Broncos are without almost wanting to cry.
I mean 12 guys on field, then 10, the 12........BATES WHAT THE HELL IS YOUR DEFENSE DOING? I'm beginning to think we may hear the dumb, stupid whispers about some of our defenders. I'm thinking they are just too stupid to understand the defense in one off season.
zdoor
10-30-2007, 09:33 AM
I thought it was interesting that the same crew from last night reffed a game a couple years ago that we went without any penalties. Our last "Perfect Game".... I heard it a couple times on the radio, maybe the refs did too and decided to make up for it.
HorseHead
10-30-2007, 09:36 AM
what suc-s is...I got 0 sleep...
this day is gonna bl-w..
I didn't record the game, so I can't watch the replay, but when that flag was thrown I was sure that it was for either a facemask or a horse-collar on the guy that tackled Selvin. Did anyone else think that?
spdirty
10-30-2007, 10:47 AM
Terrible call, but much less significant than 14 points we handed away by crapping ourselves at their 20 yard line.
fixed it.
jonny1
10-30-2007, 11:06 AM
That was definitely a game changing call.
I would say that it didn't lose the game for the Broncos, but it definitely kept them from winning it in regulation.
At worse, they tie the game there, then perhaps have a chance to win it at the end with an Elam FG, or they score a TD and go up by four.
Crap call, but what can you do? It's the way the year is going, might as well just accept what is going to happen this year, and watch the young players develop.
Oh, and by way, will Simeon Rice now shut up, do you think? He got his wish, and was invisible all game.
Garcia Bronco
10-30-2007, 11:12 AM
That was definitely a game changing call.
I would say that it didn't lose the game for the Broncos, but it definitely kept them from winning it in regulation.
At worse, they tie the game there, then perhaps have a chance to win it at the end with an Elam FG, or they score a TD and go up by four.
Crap call, but what can you do? It's the way the year is going, might as well just accept what is going to happen this year, and watch the young players develop.
Oh, and by way, will Simeon Rice now shut up, do you think? He got his wish, and was invisible all game.
He wasn't invisable per se.....but I agree
FrontRowSeat1
10-30-2007, 11:19 AM
This thread looks like a Mizzou Basketball aftermath..every loss is a fault of the officials. We are better than this. Blame the guys who make or dont make plays, not the officials.
Popps
10-30-2007, 11:21 AM
fixed it.
Was the fumble not at the goal line?
Was the missed TD opportunity not at the goal line as the clock wound down?
No need to fix anything, except our offense, maybe.
BMF Bronco
10-30-2007, 11:29 AM
Loved all of the "pressure" we put on favre, did we get one legitimate sack all night?!
Rock Chalk
10-30-2007, 11:33 AM
I thought the officiating blew ass tonight.
Mike Sandol's blog before the game essentially predicted it. The ref crew is the second highest penalizing crew in the NFL.
kupesdad
10-30-2007, 05:29 PM
That's probably the only game changing play Kuper will ever get to make. To bad he made it for wrong team. Great forced fumble there Kuper. I said we would miss Hamilton but I didn't think it would mean our guards would start popping the ball out of QBS hands at 1 yrd line. I can't put into words how crappy Broncos are without almost wanting to cry.
I mean 12 guys on field, then 10, the 12........BATES WHAT THE HELL IS YOUR DEFENSE DOING? I'm beginning to think we may hear the dumb, stupid whispers about some of our defenders. I'm thinking they are just too stupid to understand the defense in one off season.
Just a thought...if an O-Lineman is fast enough to pull across the center and knock the ball out of the QB's hands then a couple of things may have happened
A) The QB opened up to the wrong side
B) The pulling guard pulled too deep and ran into the QB
C) The exchange between the center and the QB took too long
D) The QB didn't have the ball completely in his hands
From talking to Chris I have a pretty good idea to what happened but it doesn't make a difference because 1 PLAY DOESN'T WIN OR LOSE A GAME. We had numerous penalties, 2 touchdowns against us that were over 50 yards, and were missing our best running back. Bottom line is Green Bay took advantage of something that their all-world QB felt like he could exploit and executed it.
Edited it..meant center and QB not center and guard
chickennob2
10-30-2007, 05:35 PM
Honestly, that has to be the highest penalty-to-official ratio in quite some time. 20 something penalties from a 6 man crew. It makes you wonder if they were calling some **** because they were forced into a bad position to make the call due to being down a man.
BroncoBuff
10-30-2007, 05:39 PM
Mike Sandol's blog before the game essentially predicted it. The ref crew is the second highest penalizing crew in the NFL.
Makes sense ... the personal foul facemask was a terrible call, too. Luckily it was half-the-distance, so essentially it was the same as a 5-yarder.
And Kupesdad, what did he say was the problem? Even if he said it's Jay's fault, I'll believe him. Jay looked very tentative - even 'lost' a couple times last night. The Green Bay defense was all over our vaunted misdirection I thought. The fumble was obviously unintentional ... and Yes, it was WAY too early to cost us the game actually.
cabronco
10-30-2007, 05:43 PM
Loved all of the "pressure" we put on favre, did we get one legitimate sack all night?!
Not that I recall. But I do recall all the room Favre had to move around in the backfield if he wanted, but mainly patiently waited for his receivers to get separation and launch them the ball on target. I sure didnt see Jay having the pocket set up for him that long. Both have been the trend for too long !
kupesdad
10-30-2007, 05:47 PM
Makes sense ... the personal foul facemask was a terrible call, too. Luckily it was half-the-distance, so essentially it was the same as a 5-yarder.
And Kupesdad, what did he say was the problem? Even if he said it's Jay's fault, I'll believe him. Jay looked very tentative - even 'lost' a couple times last night. The Green Bay defense was all over our vaunted misdirection I thought. The fumble was obviously unintentional ... and Yes, it was WAY too early to cost us the game actually.
I can't say what he thought happened except for the fact that he was unaware of any contact until Mason told him after the game. He felt awful about it when he was told but based on the play that was called and what Chris' agent told me ( his agent played guard for 10 years in the NFL and 1 year for the Broncos) take a pick on what I posted above. Not that Chris didn't have any mistakes last night. I stand on what I said above and all of the Tuesday morning QB's should go back to their REAL jobs or their 4th period chemistry class until Lombardi comes back from the dead and asks for your opinion. It could happen, it's almost Halloween.
cutthemdown
10-30-2007, 05:52 PM
I can't say what he thought happened except for the fact that he was unaware of any contact until Mason told him after the game. He felt awful about it when he was told but based on the play that was called and what Chris' agent told me ( his agent played guard for 10 years in the NFL and 1 year for the Broncos) take a pick on what I posted above. Not that Chris didn't have any mistakes last night. I stand on what I said above and all of the Tuesday morning QB's should go back to their REAL jobs or their 4th period chemistry class until Lombardi comes back from the dead and asks for your opinion. It could happen, it's almost Halloween.
Wow sounds like you think we are being too hard on the team. I guess that makes sense considering who you are. Unaware though is a good way to describe Kuper's play on Monday.
Bladerunner
10-30-2007, 05:55 PM
We did not get a legit sack all night, though Doom did hit Favre's elbow to cause an incomplete on 3rd down. Champ may have jumped the route that play, but we'll never know.
kupesdad...of those options, based on what I saw...
A) is not an option, as Cutler hadn't opened up to either side
B) maybe, but Chis was headed right behind Meyers, he didn't look to deep to me, just too soon
C) definitely an option, the ball was right there with Jay's hands on it. Given that Kupe didn't false start, this is the most likely reason to me
D) it looked like he did, until Kupes kind of "swim move" to get going on the pull swatted it squarely.
this one looked like a freak play to me...it's one of those that will never happen again becasue the players will remember to account for it...
kupesdad
10-30-2007, 06:08 PM
Wow sounds like you think we are being too hard on the team. I guess that makes sense considering who you are. Unaware though is a good way to describe Kuper's play on Monday.
I thought the game was a tough game that either team could have won handily had they made less mental errors. I would hardly call Chris' game "unaware". He is getting better each game in my opinion considering this is game 2 in his career both of which were played against very good defensive line. I watch the game strictly focused on the line play position with binoculars so I can probably tell you of 20 or more very good plays made by ALL of the O-Line that you probably would have seen 25% of. We have a young team led by a young qb. If you want to watch flawless play you probably should go to another sport because as good as this team can become it will not happen this year. Good or bad I am a fan and I won't call out any individual player because I know how hard it is for a young man to get to this level. The only time I will call out someone is for an off field situation that shouldn't happen. I am not talking about errors that all of us in our lives as we make our way but DUMB things that take a lot thought to actually do. I would hate for someone to come to my job and critique me daily and I would suspect most of you all would too. If not, then some of you may want to look at your company's internet usage policy.
broncofan2438
10-30-2007, 07:12 PM
Yea, the call was absolutely rediculous.........thats all i have to say
RunSilentRunDeep
10-30-2007, 08:05 PM
Don't worry, the NFL will send a private letter to the Broncos acknowledging they blew the call and offering its sincere apologies. And that will make everything okay.
I thought the game was a tough game that either team could have won handily had they made less mental errors. I would hardly call Chris' game "unaware". He is getting better each game in my opinion considering this is game 2 in his career both of which were played against very good defensive line. I watch the game strictly focused on the line play position with binoculars so I can probably tell you of 20 or more very good plays made by ALL of the O-Line that you probably would have seen 25% of. We have a young team led by a young qb. If you want to watch flawless play you probably should go to another sport because as good as this team can become it will not happen this year. Good or bad I am a fan and I won't call out any individual player because I know how hard it is for a young man to get to this level. The only time I will call out someone is for an off field situation that shouldn't happen. I am not talking about errors that all of us in our lives as we make our way but DUMB things that take a lot thought to actually do. I would hate for someone to come to my job and critique me daily and I would suspect most of you all would too. If not, then some of you may want to look at your company's internet usage policy.
I think Chris is going to be fine. I watched him a lot in preseason and he did a fine job...granted, it was against second teamers but he didnt even seem that challenged really. But he hasnt seen game speed since preseason (and even at that it was preseason)and I think it would be fair to cut him some slack. Besides, Im not so sure Cutler shouldnt have had that ball more secure. Im hoping to see him make strides as the season progresses though. I think he will.
kupesdad
10-30-2007, 08:52 PM
I think Chris is going to be fine. I watched him a lot in preseason and he did a fine job...granted, it was against second teamers but he didnt even seem that challenged really. But he hasnt seen game speed since preseason (and even at that it was preseason)and I think it would be fair to cut him some slack. Besides, Im not so sure Cutler shouldnt have had that ball more secure. Im hoping to see him make strides as the season progresses though. I think he will.
Thanks Lex,
If you recall, he was demoted after the 1st week and then played the rest of the time against 1st teamers. From then on he was playing 2nd team at 3 positions, RG, LG and LT. It was difficult to get settled into one position because your stance changes at all 3 of these positions. This line will be very good in the next few years.
Thanks Lex,
If you recall, he was demoted after the 1st week and then played the rest of the time against 1st teamers. From then on he was playing 2nd team at 3 positions, RG, LG and LT. It was difficult to get settled into one position because your stance changes at all 3 of these positions. This line will be very good in the next few years.
I remember them trying him out at LT during the preseason. I thought he did ok but it was obvious he was overly worried about getting beat on the outside. He did fine but I think he was beat a couple of times (against Cleveland I think) when the DE deked outside and Chris overcompensated and the guy made it through on the inside...but it looked like it was something that wouldnt be as much of a problem with experience.
Do you think they will be leaving him at guard? Is he the emergency LT?
kupesdad
10-30-2007, 09:11 PM
I remember them trying him out at LT during the preseason. I thought he did ok but it was obvious he was overly worried about getting beat on the outside. He did fine but I think he was beat a couple of times (against Cleveland I think) when the DE deked outside and Chris overcompensated and the guy made it through on the inside...but it looked like it was something that wouldnt be as much of a problem with experience.
Do you think they will be leaving him at guard? Is he the emergency LT?
Yeah, he did get beat on the point after attempt which allowed the LB that came over the middle make the tackle that ended the game. They will leave him at guard fot this year but I would imagine that if something happened to one of our tackles (God forbid) Chris would play some tackle. He has been playing 3 positions since the season began in practice. Thanks dk
I usually give the refs a break if it's a close call and could go either way. But that holding call on Marshall wasn't even close to a hold. I'd rather see a ref miss a call and say I just was not in position to see a penalty then to just frickin guess and throw a flag. That's the kind of nonsense that people can't take. It's called a PHANTOM CALL. As a ref, only throw a flag on what you are CERTAIN you saw. I don't see how that ref could have been certain about anything on that play. Pure BS. Dock his pay.
Bronx33
10-30-2007, 10:39 PM
Not wanting to listen to the kornholer anymore i listened to KOA, dave logan made a comment about that call he also said it shouldn't have ever been called.
broncolife
10-30-2007, 10:49 PM
Anybody think these refs were pissed off about one of their fellow refs being hurt and threw a flag tantrum on both teams.
elsid13
10-30-2007, 11:01 PM
I really don't have any problems with the fumble, bad luck happen to good guys too. But I was very disappointed on the mental error sthat seemed to plague the line last night in the second half. To many holding penalties and false starts in critical plays in a series. Especially if you know the crew overseeing the game is know to throw the yellow. That stuff is not excusably if you want to be good team.
Garcia Bronco
10-30-2007, 11:02 PM
Anybody think these refs were pissed off about one of their fellow refs being hurt and threw a flag tantrum on both teams.
I thought that...who hit them
DaFace
10-30-2007, 11:13 PM
Anybody think these refs were pissed off about one of their fellow refs being hurt and threw a flag tantrum on both teams.
I don't think they were "throwing a flag tantrum" per se, but I do wonder if they were overcompensating due to being down a man. In other words, since they were somewhat out of position, they would call flags that they couldn't see very well in order to make sure they weren't missing anything.
Regarding the call being discussed in this thread, it was ticky tack as hell, and probably shouldn't have been called. However, the WR did pull the defender's jersey. If a ref wasn't very close to the call as I mentioned above, I can see him throwing the flag when he saw the jersey pulled.
I just got done watching the game again and Jaws said (during the Marshall holding play)..........."Wow, if they start calling that, we'll be playing flag football...........wow". Holy cow, was that atrocious ref duty right there. I also didn't think that Martinez holding play on the outside was holding either. And that ref who threw the flag on Crowder when he was sorta blocked into Farve, it wasn't even a split second that he touched Farve once the ball was gone. No flag should have even been thrown. I know the Broncos probably got a few calls too but man, after watching that game twice, those calls against us were some huge ones and I think kept us from winning. At one point in the game, I think Korny said "is there going to be a flag on every play?". The league should be disgusted with that crew. I hope we don't see them for a very very long time.
Jens1893
10-31-2007, 07:46 AM
http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/194/vlcsnap8261095ca7.png
Ratboy
10-31-2007, 08:38 AM
What is the picture suppose to show?
Jens1893
10-31-2007, 10:13 AM
What is the picture suppose to show?
that there is no holding as marshall merely pushes harris
Ratboy
10-31-2007, 10:38 AM
Well, you cant really tell by a picture, but i do agree thats what he was doing.
cutthemdown
10-31-2007, 05:14 PM
I thought the game was a tough game that either team could have won handily had they made less mental errors. I would hardly call Chris' game "unaware". He is getting better each game in my opinion considering this is game 2 in his career both of which were played against very good defensive line. I watch the game strictly focused on the line play position with binoculars so I can probably tell you of 20 or more very good plays made by ALL of the O-Line that you probably would have seen 25% of. We have a young team led by a young qb. If you want to watch flawless play you probably should go to another sport because as good as this team can become it will not happen this year. Good or bad I am a fan and I won't call out any individual player because I know how hard it is for a young man to get to this level. The only time I will call out someone is for an off field situation that shouldn't happen. I am not talking about errors that all of us in our lives as we make our way but DUMB things that take a lot thought to actually do. I would hate for someone to come to my job and critique me daily and I would suspect most of you all would too. If not, then some of you may want to look at your company's internet usage policy.
So it's come to we should be happy as long as our players aren't criminals?
I don't think you can compare regular jobs to pro football. I agree with you though we as laymen to pro football have no idea how hard even the practice squad players have tried to make it this level. I also agree that it's only Kuper second game so this is to be expected. Why do you think I said we were screwed when Hamilton went down? And when Nalen went down I said we are double screwed now? Kuper just isn't ready to be starting but injuries have forced it. Had he been ready I think he would have beaten out Holland in the first place.
Still though I totally agree that he didn't lose game. I blame that fumble on Cutler, it's his job to protect the football IMO and Kuper was just probably a little out of synch. Still though good qbs can't let that happen. Cutler needs to work on protecting the ball more.
Spider
10-31-2007, 05:15 PM
It was a bad call time to move on
Yep - you can clearly see the right arm of Harris is free and not being held and Marshall basically just pushed him from the front backwards until Harris at the last second turned sideways and missed the tackle.
It was not just a bad call - it was a pathetic call. Obviously we will move on but doesn't hurt to express how disappointed we are in that call. I hope the Broncos send that tape the the Commish and tell him we fully expect to get beat by Detroit next week if those are the kinds of calls we can expect.