Own Draft Grades

[TheReverend]

For the past three years... obviously grading some of these classes is still premature but it should be fun.

Year No. Round Pick Player Name Position College
2007 1 1 17 17 Jarvis Moss DE Florida B-, contributing solid play at times, still needs steps forward
2 2 24 56 Tim Crowder DE Texas C+, looking forward to solid contributions now that he's healthy
3 3 6 70 Ryan Harris T Notre Dame Incomplete
4 4 22 121 Marcus Thomas DT Florida A, I don't care how many picks we traded for him. It was worth it.
2006 1 1 11 11 Jay Cutler QB Vanderbilt A-, best QB of the draft
2 2 29 61 Tony Scheffler TE Western Michigan B+, great on the field... needs to learn to stay there
3 4 22 119 Brandon Marshall WR Central Florida A, helps create longterm optimism and some clutch catches
4 4 29 126 Elvis Dumervil DE Louisville A+, no one knew he could be this good
5 4 33 130 Domenik Hixon WR Akron D, thanks for some funny jokes but you're a waste on the field
6 5 29 161 Chris Kuper G North Dakota A, another OL starter from the bottom
7 6 29 198 Greg Eslinger C Minnesota C+, provides depth at the bottom of the draft
2005 1 2 24 56 Darrent Williams DB Oklahoma State A-, RIP thanks for the play and heart
2 3 12 76 Karl Paymah DB Washington State C-, lots of optimism, little contribution
3 3 33 97 Domonique Foxworth DB Maryland B+, quality contributor near the end of day one
4 3 37 101 Maurice Clarett RB Ohio State F, wasted pick
5 6 26 200 Chris Myers G Miami (FL) A, long term starter in the 6th round
6 7 25 239 Paul Ernster K Northern Arizona C-, got some productivity


Cut and paste and insert your own grades and comments please

[Broncoman13]

For the past three years... obviously grading some of these classes is still premature but it should be fun.

Year No. Round Pick Player Name Position College
2007 1 1 17 17 Jarvis Moss DE Florida B-, contributing solid play at times, still needs steps forward
2 2 24 56 Tim Crowder DE Texas C+, looking forward to solid contributions now that he's healthy
3 3 6 70 Ryan Harris T Notre Dame Incomplete
4 4 22 121 Marcus Thomas DT Florida A, I don't care how many picks we traded for him. It was worth it.
2006 1 1 11 11 Jay Cutler QB Vanderbilt A-, best QB of the draft
2 2 29 61 Tony Scheffler TE Western Michigan B+, great on the field... needs to learn to stay there
3 4 22 119 Brandon Marshall WR Central Florida A, helps create longterm optimism and some clutch catches
4 4 29 126 Elvis Dumervil DE Louisville A+, no one knew he could be this good
5 4 33 130 Domenik Hixon WR Akron D, thanks for some funny jokes but you're a waste on the field
6 5 29 161 Chris Kuper G North Dakota A, another OL starter from the bottom
7 6 29 198 Greg Eslinger C Minnesota C+, provides depth at the bottom of the draft
2005 1 2 24 56 Darrent Williams DB Oklahoma State A-, RIP thanks for the play and heart
2 3 12 76 Karl Paymah DB Washington State C-, lots of optimism, little contribution
3 3 33 97 Domonique Foxworth DB Maryland B+, quality contributor near the end of day one
4 3 37 101 Maurice Clarett RB Ohio State F, wasted pick
5 6 26 200 Chris Myers G Miami (FL) A, long term starter in the 6th round
6 7 25 239 Paul Ernster K Northern Arizona C-, got some productivity


Cut and paste and insert your own grades and comments please

No need, I think you did outstanding! Maybe add Javon as a B+ as he was a draft pick acquisition.

[jmz313]

Hixon was only good for the jokes. F.

[TheReverend]

Hixon was only good for the jokes. F.

The jokes were worth a full letter in my book.

[TheReverend]

By the way, from these three draft classes we have six current starters that are all playing outstanding football.

Jay Cutler
Marcus Thomas
Brandon Marshall
Elvis Dumervil
Chris Kuper
Chris Myers

And these potential/future starters

Foxworth
Scheffler
Harris
Crowder/Moss

[ayjackson]

Lest we forget the college free agents signed at the last few drafts: Mike Bell (06), Antwan Burton (06), Erik Pears (05), Selvin Young (07).

[fontaine]

Lest we forget the college free agents signed at the last few drafts: Mike Bell (06), Antwan Burton (06), Erik Pears (05), Selvin Young (07).

Erik Pears = A+ when you consider the value
Mike Bell = C+ (no longer activated)

Young/Burton: incomplete.

[Crushaholic]

I would give Marcus Thomas a B. He's still a bit inconsistent with his play, but he shows promise...

[TheReverend]

Injected youth on the offensive line:
age age
2007 2006
LT 33 32
LG 24 29
C 26 35
RG 27 29
RT 25 32/26
Unit Ave. 27 31.4/30.2

So depending on whether you count Meadows or Foster last years starter, we've gotten either 3.2 or 4.4 years younger on the offensive line.

[TheReverend]

I would give Marcus Thomas a B. He's still a bit inconsistent with his play, but he shows promise...

For a second day pick playing an extremely difficult position, not even halfway through his rookie year after a year of being out of football... an A is too low if anything.

[ayjackson]

Injected youth on the offensive line:
age age
2007 2006
LT 33 32
LG 24 29
C 26 35
RG 27 29
RT 25 32/26
Unit Ave. 27 31.4/30.2

So depending on whether you count Meadows or Foster last years starter, we've gotten either 3.2 or 4.4 years younger on the offensive line.

Just one spot to secure youth at - LT. Is Ryan Harris the man? Do we draft a first round LT in the draft? Do we squeeze one more season out of Lepsis? Can Pears switch sides?

Is Harris healthy? Has he been active?

[Crushaholic]

For a second day pick playing an extremely difficult position, not even halfway through his rookie year after a year of being out of football... an A is too low if anything.

I guess if you're talking value, you're correct.

[Rock Chalk]

Year No. Round Pick Player Name Position College
2007 1 1 17 17 Jarvis Moss DE Florida [jury still out]
2 2 24 56 Tim Crowder DE Texas [jury still out]
3 3 6 70 Ryan Harris T Notre Dame Incomplete
4 4 22 121 Marcus Thomas DT Florida [jury still out]
2006 1 1 11 11 Jay Cutler QB Vanderbilt [jury still out]
2 2 29 61 Tony Scheffler TE Western Michigan [jury still out]
3 4 22 119 Brandon Marshall WR Central Florida [jury still out]
4 4 29 126 Elvis Dumervil DE Louisville A
5 4 33 130 Domenik Hixon WR Akron Who?
6 5 29 161 Chris Kuper G North Dakota [jury still out]
7 6 29 198 Greg Eslinger C Minnesota C
2005 1 2 24 56 Darrent Williams DB Oklahoma State A+, RIP thanks for the play and heart
2 3 12 76 Karl Paymah DB Washington State C Not bad, not great.
3 3 33 97 Domonique Foxworth DB Maryland B Not bad, not great, but better than Paymah.
4 3 37 101 Maurice Clarett RB Ohio State F as an F-UCK
5 6 26 200 Chris Myers G Miami (FL) [jury still out]
6 7 25 239 Paul Ernster K Northern Arizona F

Draftees from the last two years with the exception of Dumervile havent had enough time on the field for any grade to really be given. Cutler has had moments both good and bad but we havent hit his ceiling yet or his floor. Cant grade him out effectively. Id say, based on what we have seen only, he gets a B-. Red Zone woes keep him from a solid A. Fair or not, he will be judged on how he can score, same as any other QB. Moss, Crowder and Thomas will all grade out to A's eventually, Im certain. Dumervil is the only one that absolutely can be graded out from the last two years as he has had about a full years worth of playing time. I give him an A.

Myers and Kuper looked good Sunday but lack ofplaying time prevents a grade.

I know, I know, IM bashing Cutler because I didnt give him an A+ and call him the best QB ever. Sorry. I cant be that much of a homer.

[TheReverend]

I guess if you're talking value, you're correct.

I'm not sure what else we'd be talking about...

[TheReverend]

Draftees from the last two years with the exception of Dumervile havent had enough time on the field for any grade to really be given. Cutler has had moments both good and bad but we havent hit his ceiling yet or his floor. Cant grade him out effectively. Id say, based on what we have seen only, he gets a B-. Red Zone woes keep him from a solid A. Fair or not, he will be judged on how he can score, same as any other QB. Moss, Crowder and Thomas will all grade out to A's eventually, Im certain. Dumervil is the only one that absolutely can be graded out from the last two years as he has had about a full years worth of playing time. I give him an A.

Myers and Kuper looked good Sunday but lack ofplaying time prevents a grade.

For the past three years... obviously grading some of these classes is still premature but it should be fun.


Try. It's the purpose of this board.

[Crushaholic]

I'm not sure what else we'd be talking about...

If we JUST talk about his play on the field, it doesn't merit an A...yet. Then again, I wouldn't grade anybody on the D-line (except for Dumervil) an A at this point.

[TheReverend]

If we JUST talk about his play on the field, it doesn't merit an A...yet. Then again, I wouldn't grade anybody on the D-line (except for Dumervil) an A at this point.

I agree. But I also think it's too early for anyone on that list to get an A. The premise of the list was to grade them now, however.

[Rock Chalk]

I agree. But I also think it's too early for anyone on that list to get an A. The premise of the list was to grade them now, however.

The the "jury still out" ones I give the grade of I for Incomplete.

[loborugger]

Dude, havent you been reading all the threads about lack of talent, lousy drafts, etc, etc. There is no way we have that many As and Bs. Redo this list. No one gets better than a D+

On a serious note, not bad. I wouldnt rate Darrent quite so high, honestly, but with the tragedy as it was I can see how many would give an A.

[TheReverend]

Dude, havent you been reading all the threads about lack of talent, lousy drafts, etc, etc. There is no way we have that many As and Bs. Redo this list. No one gets better than a D+

On a serious note, not bad. I wouldnt rate Darrent quite so high, honestly, but with the tragedy as it was I can see how many would give an A.

A late 2nd round pick picked as a kick returner before becoming an immediate starter and returner played a large role.

[Atlas]

By the way, from these three draft classes we have six current starters that are all playing outstanding football.

Jay Cutler
Marcus Thomas
Brandon Marshall
Elvis Dumervil
Chris Kuper
Chris Myers

And these potential/future starters

Foxworth
Scheffler
Harris
Crowder/Moss

Good stuff Rev. Whatever Shanny has done these last three years he has done amazing in the draft. Denver is built to win in the future. 2008 should be a good year for the Broncos with the maturing of the draft picks.

[Atlas]

Shanny's strategy of drafting positions in bulk has proven effective too. The CBs and DL taken care of I say Denver drafts two safties and two LBers next year along with another DT.

[Kaylore]

Year No. Round Pick Player Name Position College
2007 1 1 17 17 Jarvis Moss DE Florida B. Moss needs to develop as he's physically not "there" yet and doesn't look to be well conditioned. In spite of that he's showing flashes. Some might complain that they expected more from a first round pick, but Moss is more a guy that will come on in '08.
2 2 24 56 Tim Crowder DE Texas B- I have to eat some crow on this one. I felt that Crowder was too slow and average, but he looks like he's going to be a steady technique guy that gives full effort and those are the kinds of guys good football teams are made of.
3 3 6 70 Ryan Harris T Notre Dame I was going to bust him until I learned about his back. If he doesn't bounce back from it, we may have to anyway. Let's hope for the best.
4 4 22 121 Marcus Thomas DT Florida B- He has a ways to go but for all the problem players on our team, this guy isn't one of them...knock on wood.

2006 1 1 11 11 Jay Cutler QB Vanderbilt A+ He's done better than he should for the amount of playing experience he has. He is money on third down and in the fourth quarter. That's really all you need to know about him.
2 2 29 61 Tony Scheffler TE Western Michigan B- He's having health issues. I think if he can stay healthy he will be a monster, though.
3 4 22 119 Brandon Marshall WR Central Florida B- Talent is undeniable. His brain power is somewhere in the D- range. The kid doesn't "get it" and has me seriously worried he's just going to mouth off or do something stupid again.
4 4 29 126 Elvis Dumervil DE Louisville A+ For the value he is amazing.
5 4 33 130 Domenik Hixon WR Akron C this wasn't a bad pick. He just had a lot of pressure on him. I don't think he was ever going to be as good as people here joked (obviously) but this was essentially his rookie year. I wish him the best.
6 5 29 161 Chris Kuper G North Dakota A+ The best ever! Ok seriously he's got a ways to go but the experience he's getting now is really going to set him up. I still maintain he's going to make our O-line awesome this year.
7 6 29 198 Greg Eslinger C Minnesota D+ Well he's still on the roster, but I still don't see him as an NFL caliber lineman. He's just too small.

2005 1 2 24 56 Darrent Williams DB Oklahoma State B A feisty player with a heart of gold. He had his struggles his second year but his contributions on special teams made up for that.
2 3 12 76 Karl Paymah DB Washington State C He's still here and still helping. That's not bad considering the success we had at the other selections here.
3 3 33 97 Domonique Foxworth DB Maryland B+ A solid player who is intelligent and works hard. Good guy to have in a locker room. I think he's starter material, but only second tier.
4 3 37 101 Maurice Clarett RB Ohio State F-
5 6 26 200 Chris Myers G Miami (FL) A His versatility has been huge. However we'll really appreciate him at his natural position where he is going to shine.
6 7 25 239 Paul Ernster K Northern Arizona B- For where he was drafted he was ok.

[lex]

Year No. Round Pick Player Name Position College
2007 1 1 17 17 Jarvis Moss DE Florida B. Moss needs to develop as he's physically not "there" yet and doesn't look to be well conditioned. In spite of that he's showing flashes. Some might complain that they expected more from a first round pick, but Moss is more a guy that will come on in '08.


Exactly. When he had that infection in his pelvis he lost a lot of weight and strength and even last year, I didnt think he was completely clear of it. The fact that he weighed 255 at the combine is an indication of that. But its because of the his infection that we were able to get him. If Moss had gone through college without this massive setback, he would have been way too good for us to have a shot at drafting him where we did. He probably had the best upside of any DE in the draft last year and we were able to get him because he is not completely past his hip infection. And we should start seeing him make big gains next year.

[no-pseudo-fan]

I'm very happy about the past few drafts. The team has got a lot of exciting players on the team. We should also look at the UDFA that we have signed, Bell and Young for example.

[TheReverend]

I'll always trust Shannahan's day 2 draft picks in regards to RB and OL, but with the recent success of 4th DL (Dumervil and Thomas), I'll be on board for any future DL 4th rd picks.

Shannahan Trends and success, fill in the blanks with the position you feel we fill best in their respective round. Please include your favorite pick of that round as well. Please keep in mind this is restricted to the Shannahan era.

1st Rd. Linebackers (Al Wilson)
2nd Rd. Running back (Clinton Portis)
3rd Rd. No trend (Neil or Hayward)
4th Rd. DL (Elvis Dumerville)
5th Rd. OL (Kuper)
6th Rd. Running back (TD)
7th Rd.

Much harder than I thought...

[TheReverend]

Throughout the entire Shannahan draft era our only successful first round picks (outside of Pryce and Cutler) are Linebackers: Mobley, Wilson, Williams.

[cmhargrove]

Exactly. When he had that infection in his pelvis he lost a lot of weight and strength and even last year, I didnt think he was completely clear of it. The fact that he weighed 255 at the combine is an indication of that. But its because of the his infection that we were able to get him. If Moss had gone through college without this massive setback, he would have been way too good for us to have a shot at drafting him where we did. He probably had the best upside of any DE in the draft last year and we were able to get him because he is not completely past his hip infection. And we should start seeing him make big gains next year.

I look for Jarvis to have a big 2008 also. I consider the following things: 1. From all reports, he could beat about anyone in one on one drills (that speaks of his raw skill). 2. Our team is now using him much more against the run than we originally thought (which will make him a better all around end - and stronger). 3. He's flat out skinny on a very tall frame so he can easily put on more weight.
I think they can bulk him up even more in the offseason, and his experience this year will really come through. He should be a solid end next year. Remember, there were still lots of doubts about Dumervil from last year to this year. Many were asking if he even belonged in our new system. I think Moss will take a jump this offseason.

[TheReverend]

I look for Jarvis to have a big 2008 also. I consider the following things: 1. From all reports, he could beat about anyone in one on one drills (that speaks of his raw skill). 2. Our team is now using him much more against the run than we originally thought (which will make him a better all around end - and stronger). 3. He's flat out skinny on a very tall frame so he can easily put on more weight.
I think they can bulk him up even more in the offseason, and his experience this year will really come through. He should be a solid end next year. Remember, there were still lots of doubts about Dumervil from last year to this year. Many were asking if he even belonged in our new system. I think Moss will take a jump this offseason.

Getting experience against top tier tackles and quick release QBs this season will make the game much, MUCH easier for him when he adds more power and the game slows down.

[TallyBronco]

I still haven't seen a good draft critique here. Or anywhere else. Ever.

To evaluate a pick or a draft, you would have to know the probability of a player making a contribution to the team, given his draft position (which you would count by the number of the pick, not by the round). Your measurement could involve the probability of making the team in the first year, probability of becoming a starter (within, say, three years), probability of remaining in the NFL for eight years, etc. You could use statistical measurements of production for certain positions, such as yards gained, tackles made, etc. More subjective measurements, such as probability of becoming an all-pro, might also be roughly useful.

Even better, you would have position-by-position data (QB, RB, OL, WR/TE, DL, LB, DB, K, P), though for positions like QB you're unlikely to have a large enough sample size for any coach. Finally, you would compare Shanahan's record with these probabilities and use a simple statistical test to determine whether his record is significantly above or below average on these measurements.

[ØrangeÇrush]

so get on it tally

[TheReverend]

so get on it tally
.

[KCStud]

2006 1 1 11 11 Jay Cutler QB Vanderbilt A-, best QB of the draft


wow talk about homerism..Vince Young looks like the best QB from that class. He is 11-7 as a starter including a 6 game winning streak with a far less talented team than Jay has. Jay is 5-6 as a starter. Vince has picked up his team and put them on his back and has carried them.
Vince beat winning teams, including playoff teams such as the Colts, Giants and Eagles. Jay finally beat a winning team for the first time last sunday night.

[TheReverend]

wow talk about homerism..Vince Young looks like the best QB from that class. He is 11-7 as a starter including a 6 game winning streak with a far less talented team than Jay has. Jay is 5-6 as a starter. Vince has picked up his team and put them on his back and has carried them.
Vince beat winning teams, including playoff teams such as the Colts, Giants and Eagles. Jay finally beat a winning team for the first time last sunday night.

Do you really, deep down, believe that in the long term Vince Young is a better QB than Jay Cutler?

[KCStud]

Do you really, deep down, believe that in the long term Vince Young is a better QB than Jay Cutler?

Looks to me like the team rallies around Vince and wins. It's impressive that even though he lost Drew Bennett and Travis Henry, the Titans are STILL 4-2 and one of the best teams in the AFC at this point.
Do you think that Jay could win with LenDale White, Roydell Williams, Eric Moulds, and Bo Scaife?
If Vince can win games with a less talented team, imagine what he can do once he gets help

[Beantown Bronco]

Looks to me like the team rallies around Vince and wins. It's impressive that even though he lost Drew Bennett and Travis Henry, the Titans are STILL 4-2 and one of the best teams in the AFC at this point.
Do you think that Jay could win with LenDale White, Roydell Williams, Eric Moulds, and Bo Scaife?
If Vince can win games with a less talented team, imagine what he can do once he gets help

Forget the offensive help. Look at the defenses. If Cutler had Tennessee's defense, he'd probably have a winning record too, because he wouldn't have to put up 30+ pts a game to get the W.

It's like basing your evaluation of two pitchers off of solely their win-loss record. If one pitcher is 15-10 with a 5.00 ERA and the other is 12-12 with a 3.00 ERA.....which one do you believe is actually "better"?

[KCStud]

Forget the offensive help. Look at the defenses. If Cutler had Tennessee's defense, he'd probably have a winning record too, because he wouldn't have to put up 30+ pts a game to get the W.

It's like basing your evaluation of two pitchers off of solely their win-loss record. If one pitcher is 15-10 with a 5.00 ERA and the other is 12-12 with a 3.00 ERA.....which one do you believe is actually "better"?

Are you talking about the defense that allowed 4 TD's in the fourth quarter?

[Beantown Bronco]

Are you talking about the defense that allowed 4 TD's in the fourth quarter?

Nope...talking about the one that was only giving up 15 pts a game up until this week.

[TheReverend]

Are you talking about the defense that allowed 4 TD's in the fourth quarter?

I'm not the biggest stat guy KCDud, but this evaluation I just whipped up of 2007 clearly shows who is head and shoulders the better QB:

V. Young J. Cutler
Games 5 6
Passing Yrds 703 1406
Comp % 64 66.3
TD-Int 3-6 7-8
QB rtng 68 84.2
Rush Yrds 129 74
Rush TD 1 1
Lost Fumble 1 1
Total TD 4 8
Total TurnO 7 9
Total Ypg 166.4 246.67
Total TDpg .8 1.33
Total TOpg 1.4 1.5
TD-Int Ratio .57 .89

So Cutler is scoring more AND moving the ball over 80 yards more per game (through the air and on his feet so no running QB arguments).

Simply put, one is a game manager (albeit a very good one at that), while the other is a real NFL QB.

[KCStud]

I'm not the biggest stat guy KCDud, but this evaluation I just whipped up of 2007 clearly shows who is head and shoulders the better QB:

V. Young J. Cutler
Games 5 6
Passing Yrds 703 1406
Comp % 64 66.3
TD-Int 3-6 7-8
QB rtng 68 84.2
Rush Yrds 129 74
Rush TD 1 1
Lost Fumble 1 1
Total TD 4 8
Total TurnO 7 9
Total Ypg 166.4 246.67
Total TDpg .8 1.33
Total TOpg 1.4 1.5
TD-Int Ratio .57 .89

So Cutler is scoring more AND moving the ball over 80 yards more per game (through the air and on his feet so no running QB arguments).

Simply put, one is a game manager (albeit a very good one at that), while the other is a real NFL QB.

Does that really matter? Vince being able to run is a strength that shouldn't be held against him.
Bottomline is that Vince has won more games over winning teams with a LESS TALENTED TEAM. Cutler has more talent on his team than Vince does and yet the Titans are the better team.
You don't win games by talent alone(see KC-SD game). You win games by buying into a system and doing your job which means that everybody on your team has the will to win and believes in what your team wants to do. In order for this to happen, you need a leader. Cutler is a good leader, but right now I would take Vince. The Titans record is full proof of that.

[Beantown Bronco]

Bottomline is that Vince has won more games over winning teams with a LESS TALENTED TEAM.

You keep saying this.....BUT IT'S NOT NECESSARILY TRUE.

Tenn has better special teams and better defensive supporting cast. Denver has better offensive supporting cast. Two out of three phases gives the edge to Tennessee IMO.

[KCStud]

You keep saying this.....BUT IT'S NOT NECESSARILY TRUE.

Tenn has better special teams and better defensive supporting cast. Denver has better offensive supporting cast. Two out of three phases gives the edge to Tennessee IMO.

Better defensive supporting cast?

Let's review

DL-Doomerville=6 sacks compared to Vanden Bosh's 3 for best on each team. DEN has more sacks as a team and more tackles for loss. TEN has only 1 more FF.
EDGE=DEN

LB-I'll give the edge to TEN here. DJ Williams is about the only known LB that can be a good starter(Gold sucks).

The entire secondary should go in favor to DEN. Lynch, Champ, and Bly are stars. You think a rookie S, Nick Harper, Chris Hope, and Coltland Finnegan even compare?

So in the end DEN has more stars on defense and more production. The Titans just get it done.

[lex]

Does that really matter? Vince being able to run is a strength that shouldn't be held against him.
Bottomline is that Vince has won more games over winning teams with a LESS TALENTED TEAM. Cutler has more talent on his team than Vince does and yet the Titans are the better team.
You don't win games by talent alone(see KC-SD game). You win games by buying into a system and doing your job which means that everybody on your team has the will to win and believes in what your team wants to do. In order for this to happen, you need a leader. Cutler is a good leader, but right now I would take Vince. The Titans record is full proof of that.

If VY doesnt read the defense and relies on his legs, he will fall short of Jay. Theres a higher degree of difficulty in terms of learning curves for pocket passers and even with that Jay has held his own. Besides that, since when does Jay or VY play defense? You put way too much emphasis on W vs L. QBs are not starting pitchers.

[Kaylore]

KCSheepstud doesn't know what he's talking about. He's making Plummer-ish arguments. (OMG HE WINS teh G@/\/\3$!!!!!) ::)

[lex]

KCSheepstud doesn't know what he's talking about. He's making Plummer-ish arguments. (OMG HE WINS teh G@/\/\3$!!!!!) ::)

Yeah, KCGelding is a knucklehead.

[TheReverend]

Does that really matter? Vince being able to run is a strength that shouldn't be held against him. Bottomline is that Vince has won more games over winning teams with a LESS TALENTED TEAM. Cutler has more talent on his team than Vince does and yet the Titans are the better team.
You don't win games by talent alone(see KC-SD game). You win games by buying into a system and doing your job which means that everybody on your team has the will to win and believes in what your team wants to do. In order for this to happen, you need a leader. Cutler is a good leader, but right now I would take Vince. The Titans record is full proof of that.

I combined rush yards AND passing yards in the Total ypg category. Cutler is dominating Young in combined yards. In fact, Young is only outrushing Jay by 50 yards... outrushing him by roughly 10 yards a game.

For 10 measely yards on the ground per game, I'll take the guy that can read the defense and make all the throws.

PS. Vince Young is legally retarded. He has to carry a card and everything. I hear he and Channing Crowder hang out.

[DarkHorse30]

Last week after a horrible loss, the football hacks on TV were beating eachother up trying to say "Shanahan should shelve his GM-maginations" While completely ignoring how many picks from the last 3 years have turned into starters on a team that is only going to get better.

Is there going to be growing pains? Without a doubt....painful ones. But it's pretty stupid to ignore the kinds of players that Denver is training in new systems on both sides of the ball. Anybody recognize the offensive playbook this year? Cutler knew, practically from his first start, that his TE was open in the middle and has gotten him the ball whenever he can. Eventually, I think we'll be seeing the Elway-style playbook that didn't rely on the bootleg as it's only effective play. It still amazes me how fast Cutler was hitting Sheffler when Plummer never looked for him. Not even once.

[KCStud]

KCSheepstud doesn't know what he's talking about. He's making Plummer-ish arguments. (OMG HE WINS teh G@/\/\3$!!!!!) ::)

Yawn Gaylore thinks anybody who doesn't jump on the Cutler bandwagon is retarded. I tell it like it is

[p7superfly]

6 on the wonderlic ftw

[BowlenBall]

In response to KCPud:

Vince Young is a good quarterback.
Jay Cutler is also a good quarterback.
Brody Croyle is a bad, bad, bad quarterback.

[wabbit]

6 on the wonderlic ftw


Ha!!

That's a clincher in any argument about the viability of a QB...smarts, or lacking thereof.

Cutler has...what...6 TDs & 8 ints...Young has 3 TDs & 6 ints.

Cutlers' QB rating is a modest 84.2...Young checks in at 68.

The Steelers remain among the top 3 teams in pass defense, yet Denver...led by Cutler...converted a whopping 70% of 3rd downs.

..further, Denver converts 51% of all third downs this season...a vast improvement over last season.

Denver's offense ranks 5th-Tennessee ranks 19th.

...and the winner is...Kyle Boller...yes, Kyle Boller, ranked higher than Vince Young...Jay is a couple planets away at 11th.

Oh I can see it now...must be that metaphysical 'presence' thing one of the trolls was talking about...must be that...has to be.

[MechanicalBull]

Young has played 20 games and Cutler 11 games. How about we give these guys some time before we start saying the suck or they are great?

[lex]

Yawn Gaylore thinks anybody who doesn't jump on the Cutler bandwagon is retarded. I tell it like it is

Thats not even a rebuttal really. Youre whole argument hinges on wins and losses as if QBs are starting pitchers or something. Neither Cutler or Young play defense...nor have they played the same schedule the last two years. You really have no argument. How many games did Miami lose because they had a great QB but no defense? Same with the Fouts era Chargers? On the flip side, there have been several teams that could win without great QBs because they had other strengths. Your whole W-L argument has no validity.

[BroncoMan4ever]

i say u gotta give D-Will an A+. His contributions were huge from day 1 and had tragedy not occured he would have easily become 1 of the top DB's in the NFL within 5 years.

[KCStud]

In response to KCPud:

Vince Young is a good quarterback.
Jay Cutler is also a good quarterback.
Brody Croyle is a bad, bad, bad quarterback.

really? How many actual games have you seen Brody play? BTW-Cutler is still under .500 as the starting QB.

[SoCalBronco]

Some recent Broncos draft tidbits....

1. In the last six years, the Broncos have very rarely drafted from the Big East (as it is currently comprised) or Pac-10. During this time span, we have drafted a grand total of 3 players from both conferences combined.

2. The Oklahoma State Cowboys have saved the Big 12 from being a complete abortion for the Broncos in the last several years. (I am not including the 2007 Big 12 draftee as it is too early to evaluate him)

3. The Broncos have done fairly well drafting from the ACC recently (as it is currently comprised).

4. The Broncos have frequently drafted from the SEC, albeit with very poor results subject to only a single exception. (I am not including the two SEC draftees this year, since it is too early to evaluate them).

5. Despite having a good hit rate when drafting them, the Broncos very rarely draft linebackers. In the entirety of Shanahan's tenure (13 drafts so far), the Broncos have drafted a grand total of 7 linebackers (this includes both ILBs and OLBs). That's 7 linebackers total in 111 picks or about 6%, which is actually less than 1 for every two full drafts.

6. Since 2000, the Broncos favorite schools to draft from are the following:

Florida 5 players (Jarvis Moss, Marcus Thomas, Travis McGriff, Cooper Carlisle, Clint Mitchell)
Miami (Fla.) 3 players (Clinton Portis, D.J. Williams, Chris Myers)
Minnesota 3 players (Willie Middlebrooks, Ben Hamilton, Greg Eslinger)
Alabama 2 players (Ahmaad Galloway, Triandos Luke)
Michigan 2 players (Ian Gold, Jeremy LeSueur)
California 2 players (Deltha O'Neal, Nick Harris)
Notre Dame 2 players (Jarious Jackson, Ryan Harris)
Marshall 2 players (Paul Toviessi, Darius Watts)
Clemson 2 players (Nick Eason, Bryant McNeal)
Oklahoma State 2 players (Tatum Bell, Darrent Williams)

7. In the last few years, the Broncos have signed two undrafted free agents from Colorado State, both of whom have become starters.

[Requiem]

Some good analysis SoCal. I sure hope that we look into the PAC-10 and Big East this year, there are some good prospects. :)

[lex]

Some recent Broncos draft tidbits....

1. In the last six years, the Broncos have very rarely drafted from the Big East (as it is currently comprised) or Pac-10. During this time span, we have drafted a grand total of 3 players from both conferences combined.

2. The Oklahoma State Cowboys have saved the Big 12 from being a complete abortion for the Broncos in the last several years. (I am not including the 2007 Big 12 draftee as it is too early to evaluate him)

3. The Broncos have done fairly well drafting from the ACC recently (as it is currently comprised).

4. The Broncos have frequently drafted from the SEC, albeit with very poor results subject to only a single exception. (I am not including the two SEC draftees this year, since it is too early to evaluate them).

5. Despite having a good hit rate when drafting them, the Broncos very rarely draft linebackers. In the entirety of Shanahan's tenure (13 drafts so far), the Broncos have drafted a grand total of 7 linebackers (this includes both ILBs and OLBs). That's 7 linebackers total in 111 picks or about 6%, which is actually less than 1 for every two full drafts.

6. Since 2000, the Broncos favorite schools to draft from are the following:

Florida 5 players (Jarvis Moss, Marcus Thomas, Travis McGriff, Cooper Carlisle, Clint Mitchell)
Miami (Fla.) 3 players (Clinton Portis, D.J. Williams, Chris Myers)
Minnesota 3 players (Willie Middlebrooks, Ben Hamilton, Greg Eslinger)
Alabama 2 players (Ahmaad Galloway, Triandos Luke)
Michigan 2 players (Ian Gold, Jeremy LeSueur)
California 2 players (Deltha O'Neal, Nick Harris)
Notre Dame 2 players (Jarious Jackson, Ryan Harris)
Marshall 2 players (Paul Toviessi, Darius Watts)
Clemson 2 players (Nick Eason, Bryant McNeal)
Oklahoma State 2 players (Tatum Bell, Darrent Williams)

7. In the last few years, the Broncos have signed two undrafted free agents from Colorado State, both of whom have become starters.

Where were all these guys drafted though? If we drafted two fourth round guys from Michigan that didnt work out, its not quite the same as drafting 2 1st round picks from Cal that didnt work out.

[TheReverend]

Our picks from Marshall end up being massive dick teases

[Beantown Bronco]

really? How many actual games have you seen Brody play? BTW-Cutler is still under .500 as the starting QB.

Still clinging to the win-loss record and nothing else to determine how good a QB is....I love it.

Still think VY's record isn't a product of his defense, etc.? Or do you need to see a few more games like yesterday, where he gets credit in your eyes for the win even though he was only 6-14 for 42 yards....and had a whole 11 yards on 7 carries. Wow, what a leader.

That win was clearly all because of him.

[KCStud]

Still clinging to the win-loss record and nothing else to determine how good a QB is....I love it.

Still think VY's record isn't a product of his defense, etc.? Or do you need to see a few more games like yesterday, where he gets credit in your eyes for the win even though he was only 6-14 for 42 yards....and had a whole 11 yards on 7 carries. Wow, what a leader.

That win was clearly all because of him.

what an ignorant post. I guess I could bring up games that Vince Young won all by himself(see Houston game) to reflect your statement.
That "leader" in Denver is turning the ball over every game so pumping him up to be a great QB is laughable. I still laugh at the kool-aid drinkers who said Cutler would be going to the pro bowl this year.

[TheReverend]

what an ignorant post. I guess I could bring up games that Vince Young won all by himself(see Houston game) to reflect your statement.
That "leader" in Denver is turning the ball over every game so pumping him up to be a great QB is laughable. I still laugh at the kool-aid drinkers who said Cutler would be going to the pro bowl this year.

And Prince Vince isn't turning the ball over just as much? You're an idiot.

And the probowl still isnt unrealistic.

Brady
Manning
__________(who?)

Not:
Trent Edwards
Trent Green
Daunte Culpepper
Damon Huard
Chad Pennington
Kyle Boller
Vince Young
David Garrad (injury)

Leaving
Derek Anderson
Ben Roethlisberger
Phillip Rivers
Jay Cutler
Matt Schaub
Carson Palmer

I'd say he's got a decent shot

[KCStud]

And Prince Vince isn't turning the ball over just as much? You're an idiot.

And the probowl still isnt unrealistic.

Brady
Manning
__________(who?)

Not:
Trent Edwards
Trent Green
Daunte Culpepper
Damon Huard
Chad Pennington
Kyle Boller
Vince Young
David Garrad (injury)

Leaving
Derek Anderson
Ben Roethlisberger
Phillip Rivers
Jay Cutler
Matt Schaub
Carson Palmer

I'd say he's got a decent shot

I never said Vince Young hasn't made mistakes. He has, but that still doesn't mean he hasn't proven to be better than Cutler. Neither of them are looking like they will be "special" QB's.

Garrard, Roethlisberger, and Rivers are all better than Cutler right now. Hell Cutler has more INT's than TD's. You think he is gonna get in with that?
If we had to decide to today, it would probably be Roethlisberger who gets in with Manning and Brady.

[Drunk Monkey]

I never said Vince Young hasn't made mistakes. He has, but that still doesn't mean he hasn't proven to be better than Cutler. Neither of them are looking like they will be "special" QB's.

Garrard, Roethlisberger, and Rivers are all better than Cutler right now. Hell Cutler has more INT's than TD's. You think he is gonna get in with that?
If we had to decide to today, it would probably be Roethlisberger who gets in with Manning and Brady.


No way, Darek Anderson has 17td 8 int and 1700+ yards