We have a young team

[sgbfan]

Anybody else think that our team could be really good in the next few years? I think that will even start before the end of this season. Our offense has 1 player who has been on this team more than a year and a half (Lepsis) and I assume he's still recovering a bit from his injury. our offense has 5 2nd or 3rd year players who start and4 2nd year players with some playing time (Bell, Scheffler, Clark, and Martinez) and the Rookie Young. Our only other offensive players are Sapp, Walker, Stokely, Graham, and Henry (the latter 3 are in their first year here).

Now moving to the Defense. Corners are fine, safeties are old, and the LB's are a HUGE ? !!! LB and safety will be the biggest thing in the offseason, along with DT. But the DL is young too. Only 2 players were on the team last year(at least that played) Dumerville and Engleberger ( who we all wish could combine their talents into 1 DE that would be all world). We also have a new coach with a brand new system.

Point is, we are in rebuilding mode. Make no mistake about it. There will be bumps along the way (we all hope that the last 3 games have been the biggest one). I have been, and will be frustrated along the way, but I am excited for the future.

Well there's my optimistic rant that I have every 2 or 3 weeks. I'll be back Monday to curse the team if Sunday night turns out as bad as the last few weeks though.

[joe9999]

Rebuilding mode, there you said it. No one wanted to consider this before the season. But it is starting to become real believable now.

Offense of the future: Cutler, Javon, Sheffler, Marshal, need new linemen.

Defense: 3 rookie linemen, need to draft linebackers, need new DT, old timer Lynch needs to be replaced.

We could be looking at a long dry spell before we make another superbow run. To bad for Champ, he should move on to a new team with a chance.

Don't say that I'm not a real fan because I've been backing them for 40 years.

[ayjackson]

I can't recall what our picks our in next year's draft, but at this early stage of the season, I'd be in favour of using the first four picks on LB's and DLmen. I think we can wait one more year for our first round left tackle.

But it's early and there's a lot of development that could happen over the next few months (though, not likely at LBer).

[jmz313]

Free agency dooms almost all "young" teams. Can't build a team over years and years anymore (a la Gibbs' 1st Skins tour). Just IMHO.

[broncocalijohn]

We can use the "young" excuse if we want but our draft picks have been pretty pathetic in some cases. 2004 = 0 on our team. Bly trade for Bell and Swinging gate is probably one of the best thing for our draft.

[NFLBRONCO]

DT and OT seems strong in this draft we should give either a try.

[Drek]

We can use the "young" excuse if we want but our draft picks have been pretty pathetic in some cases. 2004 = 0 on our team. Bly trade for Bell and Swinging gate is probably one of the best thing for our draft.

DJ Williams? Jeff Shoate? Both still on the roster. Lot of guys from that draft are still in the league so the talent selection couldn't have been that bad.

Also, we've seen a marked improvement for '05 and '06, with some potential in the '07 class as well.

I can't recall what our picks our in next year's draft, but at this early stage of the season, I'd be in favour of using the first four picks on LB's and DLmen. I think we can wait one more year for our first round left tackle.

But it's early and there's a lot of development that could happen over the next few months (though, not likely at LBer).

Why in hell would we do that? So three years down the road when that young ass front seven finally catches on Champ and Bly are well on the other side of 30?

We have a ton of cap room and a promising LB class of free agents. We can at the very least address that issue with money and no picks. DL could very well be solved in a similar fashion as a few of Bates' old Green Bay starters have expiring contracts and there might be a few solid DTs floating about otherwise.

We should answer every major hole on the roster (at least: 2 LBs, 2 DTs, 1 S) with free agency and use the draft for what its meant to provide, young talent with long term potential. Then we open up a real big window to contend in with Champ and Bly still in their primes and lots of young talent to fill the holes left through FA, injuries, etc..

Worst case scenario this season is a real bottom out time for the franchise and we finish horribly. If thats the case we have the means and motivation to blow up the front seven (excluding the DEs) and rebuild quickly through FA while using some very nice draft picks to get a top pedigree OT, RB (if Henry is suspended), etc..

Hopefully this team rebounds, but if not I think we can all live with a McFadden, Ryan Long, or Glenn Dorsey as a consolation prize, not to mention a chance to select someone like John Sullivan (C, ND) later in the first day.

This isn't a franchise in rebuilding mode, but it might be a rebuilding year. The offense is very capable, though it needs more OL talent. The secondary is going to be good for nearly half a decade minimum with the talent we have at corner. We just brought in a handful of talented DEs the past two drafts. We just need to fix a maximum of 5 starting positions, and not even close to all of those need to be stars, just league average within our system. That is VERY achievable in a single off-season and if the current guys manning those positions don't turn it around themselves before the end of the year its exactly what we'll do.

Even then we'll probably still have two solid talents there with DJ (if he moves back to Will) and Marcus Thomas.

[bpc]

We need to start lining our offensive and defensive line with talent. If we went all front line, i couldn't be happier.

We should pick up Michael Turner in FA and some LB depth.

[yavoon]

We need to start lining our offensive and defensive line with talent. If we went all front line, i couldn't be happier.

We should pick up Michael Turner in FA and some LB depth.

michael turner is gna get PAID.

[Garcia Bronco]

If we had all our piece from injury, old age, and death...no one would even consider us rebuilding. But when you lose....what we have lost since the end of last season....it's no suprise we are having the issues we are having.

[ayjackson]

Why in hell would we do that? So three years down the road when that young ass front seven finally catches on Champ and Bly are well on the other side of 30?

We have a ton of cap room and a promising LB class of free agents. We can at the very least address that issue with money and no picks. DL could very well be solved in a similar fashion as a few of Bates' old Green Bay starters have expiring contracts and there might be a few solid DTs floating about otherwise.

We should answer every major hole on the roster (at least: 2 LBs, 2 DTs, 1 S) with free agency and use the draft for what its meant to provide, young talent with long term potential.

Well, I'd build through the draft and supplement through Free Agency. There's no value to be found in free agency, everyone is usually overpaid. You create value outside of the top of the draft and then can afford to supplement the roster with free agents.

I'll worry about drafting cornerbacks sometime after the 2008 Draft, unless there's excellent value to be had with a later pick.

Drafting four front seven players next year would give us Dumerville, Thomas, Chowder, Moss, DJ, maybe Burton and Gordon and a couple of the proposed draftees to build a very good front seven with - and a sight bit earlier than 2011 thank you.

[kmartin575]

LMAO, you guys think you have a young team?

Matt Lepsis- 33
Tom Nalen- 36
Ben Hamilton- 30
Travis Henry- 29 (later this month)
Daniel Graham- 29 (in a month)
Javon Walker- 29
Dre' Bly- 30
Champ Bailey- 29
John Lynch- 36
Nick Ferguson- 32
Nate Webster- 30 (next month)
Ian Gold- 29
Sam Adams- 34
John Engleberger- 31 (his birthday is today)
Jason Elam- 37
Todd Sauerbrun- 34

Over half of your starters will be over 30 by next season. Sure doesn't sound like a young team to me.

[Drek]

Well, I'd build through the draft and supplement through Free Agency. There's no value to be found in free agency, everyone is usually overpaid. You create value outside of the top of the draft and then can afford to supplement the roster with free agents.

I'll worry about drafting cornerbacks sometime after the 2008 Draft, unless there's excellent value to be had with a later pick.

Drafting four front seven players next year would give us Dumerville, Thomas, Chowder, Moss, DJ, maybe Burton and Gordon and a couple of the proposed draftees to build a very good front seven with - and a sight bit earlier than 2011 thank you.
Did the Pats overpay for Wes Welker? Or Dante Stallworth?

Look in our own division, does Donnie Edwards or Justin Griffith look overpaid to you?

The big names, Nate Clements, Leonard Davis, etc. get overpaid. That doesn't stop teams form finding good fits for their system at a wide array of positions.

We don't need to sign Carlos Dansby, a solid mid-20's vet like Boss Bailey would be a great addition at sam though (where he's played quite a bit). A "get right" contract for Teddy Lehman would be nice and cheap.

At DT we don't need Albert Haynesworth (nor should we want him, he's playing for a contract, mark my words, someone is getting burnt on him) and I don't see many teams tripping over themselves to outbid everyone for Corey Williams or Chris Coles. But those are guys who have done the job in Bates' system very recently and are also in their mid-20's. Either one would be an immediate shot in the arm for our defense, both would be a major overhaul.

We need to bring in guys like that, solid veterans who can immediately work within this system. That will enable us to bounce back quickly while the draftees get up to speed behind them, giving us in house replacements as needed and enlarging our window significantly.

[sgbfan]

LMAO, you guys think you have a young team?

Matt Lepsis- 33
Tom Nalen- 36
Ben Hamilton- 30
Travis Henry- 29 (later this month)
Daniel Graham- 29 (in a month)
Javon Walker- 29
Dre' Bly- 30
Champ Bailey- 29
John Lynch- 36
Nick Ferguson- 32
Nate Webster- 30 (next month)
Ian Gold- 29
Sam Adams- 34
John Engleberger- 31 (his birthday is today)
Jason Elam- 37
Todd Sauerbrun- 34

Over half of your starters will be over 30 by next season. Sure doesn't sound like a young team to me.

First of all, when I mentioned how young the team was, I excluded the secondary, and the LB's (noting that the LB's and secondary would likely be addressed in the offseason as top priorities). So thats 6 players off your list and Nalen and Hamilton are out for the season and now Walker will miss time. Everybody else is new to the team this year. So I would say that the team is young. Almost all the non-starters that see the field are in their first 3 seasons.

[kmartin575]

First of all, when I mentioned how young the team was, I excluded the secondary, and the LB's (noting that the LB's and secondary would likely be addressed in the offseason as top priorities). So thats 6 players off your list and Nalen and Hamilton are out for the season and now Walker will miss time. Everybody else is new to the team this year. So I would say that the team is young. Almost all the non-starters that see the field are in their first 3 seasons.

Young doesn't always equal good. Your young players are not that good.

You can try and spin it however you want but you still are not a young team.

[ayjackson]

Did the Pats overpay for Wes Welker? Or Dante Stallworth?

Look in our own division, does Donnie Edwards or Justin Griffith look overpaid to you?

The big names, Nate Clements, Leonard Davis, etc. get overpaid. That doesn't stop teams form finding good fits for their system at a wide array of positions.

We don't need to sign Carlos Dansby, a solid mid-20's vet like Boss Bailey would be a great addition at sam though (where he's played quite a bit). A "get right" contract for Teddy Lehman would be nice and cheap.

At DT we don't need Albert Haynesworth (nor should we want him, he's playing for a contract, mark my words, someone is getting burnt on him) and I don't see many teams tripping over themselves to outbid everyone for Corey Williams or Chris Coles. But those are guys who have done the job in Bates' system very recently and are also in their mid-20's. Either one would be an immediate shot in the arm for our defense, both would be a major overhaul.

We need to bring in guys like that, solid veterans who can immediately work within this system. That will enable us to bounce back quickly while the draftees get up to speed behind them, giving us in house replacements as needed and enlarging our window significantly.

Well I agree with much of what you said. However, just to nitpick, Walker was a trade not a free agent. Stalworth (coming off injury) signed in effect a one-year deal on the cheap so that he could reap BIG money in FA. He was looking to stat-pad with Brady as his QB. However, he's a huge injury risk and has fully participated in only a handful of practices in a month.

[kmartin575]

Well I agree with much of what you said. However, just to nitpick, Walker was a trade not a free agent. Stalworth (coming off injury) signed in effect a one-year deal on the cheap so that he could reap BIG money in FA. He was looking to stat-pad with Brady as his QB. However, he's a huge injury risk and has fully participated in only a handful of practices in a month.

It was not a one year deal. The Patriots have the option of picking up the rest of his contract through 2012.

[broncocalijohn]

DJ Williams? Jeff Shoate? Both still on the roster. Lot of guys from that draft are still in the league so the talent selection couldn't have been that bad.

Also, we've seen a marked improvement for '05 and '06, with some potential in the '07 class as well.

Somebody quoted 2004 and i corrected them that it was 2003. Now i guess I made the mistake. Whatever class Swinging Gate was in is the draft class i am referring from. Plus, right now, I would not be giving me Shoate and Williams as positives of a draft. I will wait judgement on Williams when he learns the position or gets back to where he fits. THis could be the worst defensive move since taking Fletcher out of LB and onto the DL.

[sgbfan]

Young doesn't always equal good. Your young players are not that good.

You can try and spin it however you want but you still are not a young team.

I didn't say that young always equals good. I personally like the potential that the younger players on this team have. We do have a young offense and D-line. You have to agree with that. Time will show how good they are. The point is that they need that time and they are still learning.

[manchambo]

As much as the near certainty that this team is not going to be good this year sucks, it seems to me that the youth is a bright side, as well as a reason for the front office to be very careful in how things are handled for the next two years. Every move, it seems to me, needs to fit within a plan to have this team be a contender when it's very promising offensive core is hitting prime in the next three or so years. That means getting rid of everything and everyone that is not going to be of assistance in around three years. It's hard cheese, but there's plenty of reason to think this team will have one of the best offenses around when Cutler and Marshall have a couple of years under their belts.

[telluride]

LMAO, you guys think you have a young team?

Matt Lepsis- 33
Tom Nalen- 36
Ben Hamilton- 30
Travis Henry- 29 (later this month)
Daniel Graham- 29 (in a month)
Javon Walker- 29
Dre' Bly- 30
Champ Bailey- 29
John Lynch- 36
Nick Ferguson- 32
Nate Webster- 30 (next month)
Ian Gold- 29
Sam Adams- 34
John Engleberger- 31 (his birthday is today)
Jason Elam- 37
Todd Sauerbrun- 34

Over half of your starters will be over 30 by next season. Sure doesn't sound like a young team to me.

Well, I don't think most of these guys will be starters -- or even on the team -- come next year.

Matt Lepsis- 33--PERHAPS, BUT HE MAY CALL IT QUITS
Tom Nalen- 36--ALMOST CERTAINLY WILL CALL IT QUITS
Ben Hamilton- 30--INJURY RELATED RETIREMENT
Travis Henry- 29 (later this month)--SUSPENDED
Daniel Graham- 29 (in a month)--HE'LL START
Javon Walker- 29--HE'LL START, BARRING MICROFRACTURE
Dre' Bly- 30--YES
Champ Bailey- 29--YES
John Lynch- 36--A RETIREMENT WOULDNT SURPRISE ME
Nick Ferguson- 32--HOPEFULLY NOT A STARTER NEXT YEAR
Nate Webster- 30 (next month)--HE'LL BE GONE
Ian Gold- 29--AS WILL HE
Sam Adams- 34--AS WILL HE
John Engleberger--31 (his birthday is today)--BACKUP PLAYER
Jason Elam- 37--HE'LL BE HERE
Todd Sauerbrun-34 HE'LL PROB BE HERE

So, yes, well probably be very young next year. Frankly, I think we should do the fullon youth movement for the remainder of this busted season, and see what the rookies/youngsters have.

[Cito Pelon]

Anybody else think that our team could be really good in the next few years? ..................

It's possible. It's also very possible they can't break .500 until the 2009 season, and don't win a playoff game until 2012.

[kmartin575]

I didn't say that young always equals good. I personally like the potential that the younger players on this team have. We do have a young offense and D-line. You have to agree with that. Time will show how good they are. The point is that they need that time and they are still learning.

How do you have a young offense though? 3/5ths of your starting O-line, 2 of your top 3 WR's, your starting runningback, and your starting tight end are all close to or are already over 30. Nalen and Hamilton are out for the season now so they are not currently starters but I think you are going to see just how much you guys will suffer without them, Nalen in particular.

Denver probably isn't the oldest team in the league but they certainly are not a young team. They are probably the oldest team in the division.

[sgbfan]

How do you have a young offense though? 3/5ths of your starting O-line, 2 of your top 3 WR's, your starting runningback, and your starting tight end are all close to or are already over 30. Nalen and Hamilton are out for the season now so they are not currently starters but I think you are going to see just how much you guys will suffer without them, Nalen in particular.

Denver probably isn't the oldest team in the league but they certainly are not a young team. They are probably the oldest team in the division.

If you count the 2 players who are out for the season as starters then you are right about the O-line. By the way, Rod Smith is 37 and Alexander is 31. . . so that makes our team older if you consider them.

Of the 17 offensive players that I expect time for the rest of the year, 11 are 27 or younger(only one with more than 3 years in the league). Sapp, Henry and Graham are 28, Walker is 29, Stokely is 31, and Lepsis is 33. Along with my point about the youth of this team, was how new they are to the team. Lepsis, Sapp and Myers are the only players of the 17 who were on the team before last year, and Lepsis was the only starter.

While there are a lot of older players on the team, there are a lot of really young, inexperienced players who appear to be set to stay for a few years.

Go ahead and "spin" whatever you want however you want to spin it now and tell me how I am so wrong and how our team is so old.

[yavoon]

age ain't a big deal for the broncos IMO. a decent amt of our good players are young and a decent amt are old.

don't want to be too young anyway, it creates cap problems and strips your team of leadership and balance.

[kmartin575]

If you count the 2 players who are out for the season as starters then you are right about the O-line. By the way, Rod Smith is 37 and Alexander is 31. . . so that makes our team older if you consider them.

Of the 17 offensive players that I expect time for the rest of the year, 11 are 27 or younger(only one with more than 3 years in the league). Sapp, Henry and Graham are 28, Walker is 29, Stokely is 31, and Lepsis is 33. Along with my point about the youth of this team, was how new they are to the team. Lepsis, Sapp and Myers are the only players of the 17 who were on the team before last year, and Lepsis was the only starter.

While there are a lot of older players on the team, there are a lot of really young, inexperienced players who appear to be set to stay for a few years.

Go ahead and "spin" whatever you want however you want to spin it now and tell me how I am so wrong and how our team is so old.

Henry and Graham will be 29 before the end of the season which obviously means they will be 30 next year. They would not classify as young players.

[ayjackson]

It was not a one year deal. The Patriots have the option of picking up the rest of his contract through 2012.

It was essentially a one-year deal. There's no way the Patriots exercise that option as it presently is constructed - and that was the general consensus when it was signed.