Turner's big run: What happened...

[Popps]

O.K.. we've got another week to kill. May as well dissect this screwed up defense a bit more.

Just had the misfortune of seeing this play on highlights, and one angle showed so clearly what happened, I had to tivo it back about 10 times to comprehend what our defenders were even doing.

On the snap, our DEs were lined up very wide. As you recall, it was just a simple HB left. I don't recall if anyone pulled and got in front of him. Very straight-forward play call. Turner just ran left and looked for a hole.

Breakdown of notable defenders on the play...

Ian Gold-Lined up far strong side near LOS. Took a weird angle. But, hard to tell if he had any chance to be involved.

DJ Williams - Somehow, decided to sprint toward the right tackle. I have no idea what he saw, or didn't see. But he just ran immediately away from the play. They didn't fake right.... nothing. He just ran over there.

Nate Webster - Gets absolutely blown up. Took a decent angle to the play, then showed horrible form. Held NO ground and got literally just blasted 5 yards the other direction. Turner could have cut up inside for a nice gain. The fact that Webster at least took a good angle forced him outside. (Which turned out worse.)

Amon Gordon - Fought through a couple of blocks. Was actually in a good position to make a play. Looked like about the only guy (on this play) who knew what he was supposed to be doing. Turner just juked him and he didn't have the power to beat his man. But, not too bad.

Tim Crowder - From the time the ball was snapped, Crowder was absolutely man-handled. He looked like he was on rollerskates. He is completely taken out of the play. He was just shoved to the sidelines. He was probably the biggest f-up on this play.

Foxworth - Takes an O.K. angle, but let turner get too far outside. Once he recovers and realizes where he need to be, friggin Tim Crowder was pushed into him, impeding his route to the ball. Champ, who seemed to recognize the play and flew across the field to get to Turner was also taken out by the Tim Crowder bowling ball of Broncos.

Lynch-Ran hard. Had no chance.

Bly-Not sure where he was lined up, but it surprised me that he had to take such a wide angle to get to the ball-carrier.


In any case, it was one play... but indicative of the total mayhem that seems to be going on from play to play. In real time, you FEEL like this is what's happening. If you slow it down, it's just frightening. Just a bunch of guys out there that either can't play, or just have no idea where to be.

Dunno. Don't really have a solution, but it's pretty bizarre to break down.

[fontaine]

O.K.. we've got another week to kill. May as well dissect this screwed up defense a bit more.

Just had the misfortune of seeing this play on highlights, and one angle showed so clearly what happened, I had to tivo it back about 10 times to comprehend what our defenders were even doing.

On the snap, our DEs were lined up very wide. As you recall, it was just a simple HB left. I don't recall if anyone pulled and got in front of him. Very straight-forward play call. Turner just ran left and looked for a hole.

Breakdown of notable defenders on the play...

Ian Gold-Lined up far strong side near LOS. Took a weird angle. But, hard to tell if he had any chance to be involved.

DJ Williams - Somehow, decided to sprint toward the right tackle. I have no idea what he saw, or didn't see. But he just ran immediately away from the play. They didn't fake right.... nothing. He just ran over there.

Nate Webster - Gets absolutely blown up. Took a decent angle to the play, then showed horrible form. Held NO ground and got literally just blasted 5 yards the other direction. Turner could have cut up inside for a nice gain. The fact that Webster at least took a good angle forced him outside. (Which turned out worse.)

Amon Gordon - Fought through a couple of blocks. Was actually in a good position to make a play. Looked like about the only guy (on this play) who knew what he was supposed to be doing. Turner just juked him and he didn't have the power to beat his man. But, not too bad.

Tim Crowder - From the time the ball was snapped, Crowder was absolutely man-handled. He looked like he was on rollerskates. He is completely taken out of the play. He was just shoved to the sidelines. He was probably the biggest f-up on this play.

Foxworth - Takes an O.K. angle, but let turner get too far outside. Once he recovers and realizes where he need to be, friggin Tim Crowder was pushed into him, impeding his route to the ball. Champ, who seemed to recognize the play and flew across the field to get to Turner was also taken out by the Tim Crowder bowling ball of Broncos.

Lynch-Ran hard. Had no chance.

Bly-Not sure where he was lined up, but it surprised me that he had to take such a wide angle to get to the ball-carrier.


In any case, it was one play... but indicative of the total mayhem that seems to be going on from play to play. In real time, you FEEL like this is what's happening. If you slow it down, it's just frightening. Just a bunch of guys out there that either can't play, or just have no idea where to be.

Dunno. Don't really have a solution, but it's pretty bizarre to break down.

Lorenzo Neal said afterwards, they weren't even trying to do anything. Just wind the clock down to the 2nd half. No misdirection, no change-up, just a standard run.

[Rock Chalk]

Lorenzo Neal said afterwards, they weren't even trying to do anything. Just wind the clock down to the 2nd half. No misdirection, no change-up, just a standard run.

Embarrassing isnt it?

[Mediator12]

The problem is not what the offense runs fontaine, its the defensive execution of the playcall.

As popps said, its a simple weak left run at the "B" gap with a FB lead. A very basic run that every player has seen a thousand times. The problem is how they are NOT defending it. The DE's are being washed out before they even react to the run because of their technique and inability to get off blocks to defend the run. The DT's are not able to flow to the ball as they also are being manhandled by a single OL and taken from the POA. The LB's have not been able to get to their gaps before they have been engaged by OL and are therefore late or in poor position to make a play. The backside LB has had to deal with so much trash from the other 2 LB's and OL that they never get a good angle to make a play before its 5 yards Downfield at the least. The safeties are so deep that they lend little support and have to take wide angles to get to the Ball.

In short, this is insanity. They keep running plays that have no chance to make a play hoping they wil be succesful eventually. The scheme is designed to work if people can win their matchups and unfortunately, more than one guy is losing almost every play versus the run. The overall coordination of where people are is not working. The DT and DE's are not doing their Jobs which makes it even harder for the LB's, who are already struggling, to do theirs. It is not that different than the last two years up front, except the LB's are no longer covering the mistakes up front as they were able to the last two years with AL and DJ outside.

The Biggest problem after 5 games is putting players in the position to succeed. Right now, they are not able to do it. Is it too early to give up on the scheme, no. But they need to tweak it to play the run more and let the secondary cover longer. Un fortuantely, the same old problems will rear their ugly head, they will have to sacrifice pass rush for run stopping ability. Right now they are playing to their weaknesses, instead of their strengths. I hope they figure that out real soon. Let the secondary cover the pass more and let the front seven play the run more. Otherwise, look for the same results. Make teams try and beat them with the pass, because they are killing them with the run.

Still play the scheme, but use the run elements more than the pass rush at this point and see if Bailey and Bly can hold up longer. They have to try or PIT is going to kill them as their Defense is playing Phenomenal. Add ball control running and the JAX game will happen all over again.

[cousinal11]

DJ Williams - Somehow, decided to sprint toward the right tackle. I have no idea what he saw, or didn't see. But he just ran immediately away from the play. They didn't fake right.... nothing. He just ran over there.


^ That part puzzles me. I don't re-watch the games so I can't really see what he's doing wrong, but that doesn't sound good at all.

[Beantown Bronco]

DJ Williams - Somehow, decided to sprint toward the right tackle. I have no idea what he saw, or didn't see. But he just ran immediately away from the play. They didn't fake right.... nothing. He just ran over there.

I can only assume that it looked to DJ like the right tackle might fall down. DJ was probably just getting himself into the best possible position to help him up afterwards.

[Rock Chalk]

Remember those electric football games when you turned it on and the guys just kinda sat there and vibrated around?

Yeah, thats our defense.

[55CrushEm]

I can only assume that it looked to DJ like the right tackle might fall down. DJ was probably just getting himself into the best possible position to help him up afterwards.

LOL.....actually, that would be Ian Gold.

[Popps]

I can only assume that it looked to DJ like the right tackle might fall down. DJ was probably just getting himself into the best possible position to help him up afterwards.

LOL


Honestly, I'm not nearly as X's/O's savvy as guys like SoCal, so... there honestly could be a good excuse for DJ's odd decision. Maybe he's responsible for that gap in certain formations. I don't know. But, it just looked weird.

[Popps]

McKinley was the other tackle, I'm pretty sure. (?) Pretty sure it was 99.

He didn't do much. Was blocked out of the play pretty easily. But, it didn't go to his side, either.

[BroncoBuff]

This is how you spend your birthday? :ouwknow:

[Los Broncos]

Remember those electric football games when you turned it on and the guys just kinda sat there and vibrated around?

Yeah, thats our defense.

:rofl:

[Phantom]

For 35 of the 37 rushing attempts by SD, the run D was actually improved.
Those 35 attempts gained 91 yards (2.6 yards per).

Those two plays were horrible, yes, but I saw improvement on the other 95% of the run plays.

Anyway, carry on with the melt down.

[Hotrod]

Remember those electric football games when you turned it on and the guys just kinda sat there and vibrated around?

Yeah, thats our defense.

I think that sums it up perfectly :rofl:

[Beantown Bronco]

For 35 of the 37 rushing attempts by SD, the run D was actually improved.
Those 35 attempts gained 91 yards (2.6 yards per).

Those two plays were horrible, yes, but I saw improvement on the other 95% of the run plays.

9 in the box will do that.

When they can hold opponents to 2.6 yards per rush with 7 in the box, then I will say they've improved. Blitzing everyone and gambling that the opponent won't pass the ball on first- and second-and-long does not constitute improvement.

[CBF1]

For 35 of the 37 rushing attempts by SD, the run D was actually improved.
Those 35 attempts gained 91 yards (2.6 yards per).

Those two plays were horrible, yes, but I saw improvement on the other 95% of the run plays.

Anyway, carry on with the melt down.

41 points at home vs a 1-3 team is improvement ???

That electric football comment was classic.

[telluride]

Also, the notion that the defense is going to somehow magically improve is wrong, I think. Teams that can't stop the run field defense that stay on the field far too long. Which means a tired, injury-depleted defense in the second of the season. If Champ and Lynch make it through this season, it will be a miracle.

[orange 4 life]

Remember those electric football games when you turned it on and the guys just kinda sat there and vibrated around?

Yeah, thats our defense.

GOD i loved that game!!!!!

before cool video games, that was IT.

one of the happiest holiday memories i have is christmas 1978. those games always included the two teams from the prior years superbowl, and of course that was the cowboys and broncos.
i woke up christmas morning and there it was sitting on the table. good stuff!!

[Rock Chalk]

GOD i loved that game!!!!!

before cool video games, that was IT.

one of the happiest holiday memories i have is christmas 1978. those games always included the two teams from the prior years superbowl, and of course that was the cowboys and broncos.
i woke up christmas morning and there it was sitting on the table. good stuff!!

For its time: Cool.

Staying Power: None.

Current Status: Retarded Invention.

[WolfpackGuy]

At least two missed tackles and a partridge in a pear tree.

[eddie mac]

The problem is not what the offense runs fontaine, its the defensive execution of the playcall.

As popps said, its a simple weak left run at the "B" gap with a FB lead. A very basic run that every player has seen a thousand times. The problem is how they are NOT defending it. The DE's are being washed out before they even react to the run because of their technique and inability to get off blocks to defend the run. The DT's are not able to flow to the ball as they also are being manhandled by a single OL and taken from the POA. The LB's have not been able to get to their gaps before they have been engaged by OL and are therefore late or in poor position to make a play. The backside LB has had to deal with so much trash from the other 2 LB's and OL that they never get a good angle to make a play before its 5 yards Downfield at the least. The safeties are so deep that they lend little support and have to take wide angles to get to the Ball.

In short, this is insanity. They keep running plays that have no chance to make a play hoping they wil be succesful eventually. The scheme is designed to work if people can win their matchups and unfortunately, more than one guy is losing almost every play versus the run. The overall coordination of where people are is not working. The DT and DE's are not doing their Jobs which makes it even harder for the LB's, who are already struggling, to do theirs. It is not that different than the last two years up front, except the LB's are no longer covering the mistakes up front as they were able to the last two years with AL and DJ outside.

The Biggest problem after 5 games is putting players in the position to succeed. Right now, they are not able to do it. Is it too early to give up on the scheme, no. But they need to tweak it to play the run more and let the secondary cover longer. Un fortuantely, the same old problems will rear their ugly head, they will have to sacrifice pass rush for run stopping ability. Right now they are playing to their weaknesses, instead of their strengths. I hope they figure that out real soon. Let the secondary cover the pass more and let the front seven play the run more. Otherwise, look for the same results. Make teams try and beat them with the pass, because they are killing them with the run.

Still play the scheme, but use the run elements more than the pass rush at this point and see if Bailey and Bly can hold up longer. They have to try or PIT is going to kill them as their Defense is playing Phenomenal. Add ball control running and the JAX game will happen all over again.

The difference IMO is that the players we had in 05 and 06 on the defensive line were better against the run that the current crop. Players like Courtney/Myers/Warren and Ekuban and then Engelberger coming in on rotation (he's having to start now). They couldn't generate much of a pass rush but they were all solid against the run. Now we've went in the entire opposite direction. We have the ends now but teams dont have to pass on us so for the most part they're useless and too light.

[Bronco Billy]

The problem is not what the offense runs fontaine, its the defensive execution of the playcall.

As popps said, its a simple weak left run at the "B" gap with a FB lead. A very basic run that every player has seen a thousand times. The problem is how they are NOT defending it. The DE's are being washed out before they even react to the run because of their technique and inability to get off blocks to defend the run. The DT's are not able to flow to the ball as they also are being manhandled by a single OL and taken from the POA. The LB's have not been able to get to their gaps before they have been engaged by OL and are therefore late or in poor position to make a play. The backside LB has had to deal with so much trash from the other 2 LB's and OL that they never get a good angle to make a play before its 5 yards Downfield at the least. The safeties are so deep that they lend little support and have to take wide angles to get to the Ball.

In short, this is insanity. They keep running plays that have no chance to make a play hoping they wil be succesful eventually. The scheme is designed to work if people can win their matchups and unfortunately, more than one guy is losing almost every play versus the run. The overall coordination of where people are is not working. The DT and DE's are not doing their Jobs which makes it even harder for the LB's, who are already struggling, to do theirs. It is not that different than the last two years up front, except the LB's are no longer covering the mistakes up front as they were able to the last two years with AL and DJ outside.

The Biggest problem after 5 games is putting players in the position to succeed. Right now, they are not able to do it. Is it too early to give up on the scheme, no. But they need to tweak it to play the run more and let the secondary cover longer. Un fortuantely, the same old problems will rear their ugly head, they will have to sacrifice pass rush for run stopping ability. Right now they are playing to their weaknesses, instead of their strengths. I hope they figure that out real soon. Let the secondary cover the pass more and let the front seven play the run more. Otherwise, look for the same results. Make teams try and beat them with the pass, because they are killing them with the run.

Still play the scheme, but use the run elements more than the pass rush at this point and see if Bailey and Bly can hold up longer. They have to try or PIT is going to kill them as their Defense is playing Phenomenal. Add ball control running and the JAX game will happen all over again.

This is the best post I've read in a while. I totally agree. The LBs aren't playing well period, but the DL isn't helping them out by running themselves out of the play or getting blown-up. I also agree that, while everyone harped on increasing the pass rush to get to the QB, we need to break down and read the run first. It seems we run ourselves out of position trying to get to the QB and that opens up the rushes for first down - especially on 3rd down and other normal passing situations.

[Archie]

since we're discussing the nitty gritty I assume you didn't see Champ in that play since he has been out of the game for awhile by then. I think Foxworth would have been the corner taking a decent angle before getting blown up.

that was the play I left the game on. It was revolting. I've not seen it on TV but live it looked like we just plain didn't give a rats aXX anymore.

[Rock Chalk]

since we're discussing the nitty gritty I assume you didn't see Champ in that play since he has been out of the game for awhile by then. I think Foxworth would have been the corner taking a decent angle before getting blown up.

that was the play I left the game on. It was revolting. I've not seen it on TV but live it looked like we just plain didn't give a rats aXX anymore.

Plastic molds with magnets on a magnetic field. What you saw in person is exactly what it looked like on TV and one many a Bronco fan was disgusted with. Not so much the loss, but the apathetic feeling you got from the team and organization as a whole. It continued on afterwards with the press conference and the standard bull**** we've been hearing for now 5 weeks and will hear for two more weeks until Pittsburgh comes to town. Then we will get slightly optimistic for the game only to get our asses kicked...again...in a very lackluster nonchalant kind of manner...again.

I can stand being bad. What I am really getting upset at isnt losing, I knew we would do that a lot when we put Cutler in (hahaha **** you kool aid drinkers, except those in the know, you know whats up), no Im pissed about the "I dont give a ****" attitude. Thats fine for me, thats not fine for the professional athelets who I cheer for.

[halfcreek]

Relying on my all too faulty memory, but I seem to remember Elvis at LDE and he got blocked to the inside opening up the whole left side.

[broncolife]

I thought we just gave up.

[Popps]

I thought we just gave up.

True.