Its ONLY been 8 years, please read and compare [Archive] - The Orange Mane

View Full Version : Its ONLY been 8 years, please read and compare

Caligula

10-08-2007, 12:19 PM

Hey guys. Just Glance over this for fun and comparisons, take a look at how our team has been doing compared to others. I've read a lot of frustration over the team and one of the first things that always seems to be brought up is Shanahan, and how he "hasn't been able to do it since Elway"... then some want to mention just how "LONG" it has been since we have been to the SB. But I wanted to share some comparisons of Shanahan's record (post-Elway) to any of the coaches in the league and throughout history that have suffered through the same situation.

I think we all know that every coache's success is directly related to the QB he has. So many want to point out that "Shanahan can't win the SB without Elway"... but how many did Walsh win without Montana, Noll without Bradshaw, Shula without a HoF QB, Johnson without Aikman, Landry without Staubach, and and Bellicheck without Brady?

So I'm going to show some comparisons of Shanahan's record AFTER Elway...without a Franchise QB... compared to so many of the teams/coaches/franchises that lost THEIR Franchise QB in the same 8 seasons, and show the records of those that have franchise QBs now, and show their 8 seasons BEFORE they got their "Elway."

I know its a lot of stats, but use it for comparisons sake, and just to read occasionally to see that this team is NOT as bad off as so many wish to believe we have been. I've done all the work, just read and enjoy. So don't take it as inflammatory information, but just information.
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Shanahan in the 8 Seasons since winning our last SB, and losing our franchise QB is 76-52. Thats a 59.3 winning percentage. We've been to the playoffs in four different seasons '00, '03, '04, '05.. have been to the AFC Championship with a 1-4 playoff record. The Broncos have had 1 season with 7 or fewer wins in the 8 seasons post Elway.

Chuck Noll in the 8 seasons after losing Bradshaw was 63-64. Thats a 49.64 winning percentage, and they went to the playoffs in 3 different seasons.. '83, '84, '89.. and had a 2-3 playoff record, and one AFC Championship game... and only 1 coach. (just for comparisons again, his ninth season he went 7-9). The Noll Steelers had three seasons with 7 or fewer wins in the 8 years post Bradshaw.

Tom Landry in the 8 seasons since losing Roger Staubach went 75-45. Thats a 62.5 winning percent percentage. Tom's Cowboys went to the playoffs 4 seasons after...'80, '81, '83, '85 and had a 3-4 playoff record and one NFC Championship Game appearance ('80). Had just ONE coach. **would like to note that Landry went from Staubach to Danny White and still had Tony Dorsett, but thats neither here nor there** The Landry Cowboys had 3 seasons with 7 or fewer wins in the 8 years post Staubach.

I used Noll and Landry first, since they were the only two coaches to stay with a team for 8+ years after losing a franchise QB (they weren't franchise QBs back then, but you know what I mean).....and interestingly enough, the teams that stuck with the ONE coach, all had the biggest winning percentages and the most playoff appearances. **Shula wasn't shown because I am comparing coaches records that have LOST a franchise/HoF QB... Shula went a whopping 3 years between Griese and Marino**

The rest here, are those franchises that have lost THEIR Franchise/HoF QB within the last 10years to show/see how they have recouped since. These are the Niners, the Dolphins, the Bills, and the Cowboys.

The Dolphins since losing Marino (7 years)... are 60-52, 53.5%, and have 2 playoff seasons.. '00, '01.. with a 1-2 playoff record. In those 7 seasons, they have had 4 different coaches (Johnson, Wannstedt, Saban, Cameron). The Dolphins have had 2 seasons below 7 wins in the 7 seasons post Marino.

The Niners since losing Young (8 years).. are 52-76...40.6%.. and have 2 playoff seasons...'01, '02.. with a 1-2 playoff record. In the 8 years since Young's retirement the Niners have had 3 different coaches (Mariucci, Erickson, Nolan). The Niners have had SIX seasons with 7 or fewer wins in the 8 seasons post Young.

The Buffalo Bills since losing Kelly (8 years)..are 58-70...45.3%.. and have 2 playoff seasons... '98, '99.. and are 0-2 with no AFCCG. Since Kelly's retirement, the Bills have had 4 different coaches (Phillips, Williams, Mularky, Juron)...**their ninth season ('06) the were 7-9** The Bills had 4 seasons with 7 or fewer wins in the 8 seasons post Kelly.

The Dallas Cowboys since losing Aikman (6 years)...are 44-52... 45.8%... and have had 2 playoff seasons.. '03, '06.. and are 0-2 with no NFCCG appearance. In the 6 years, they have had 3 different coaches (Campo, Parcells, Phillips). **also note, that now that the Cowboys are under their second season with their newest Franchise quality QB, the cowboys are again looking good** The Cowboys had 3 seasons with 7 or fewer wins in the SIX seasons post Aikman.

The Indy Colts BEFORE Manning (8 years)..were 50-78....39%...had 2 playoff seasons...'95, '96... were 2-2 and had one AFCCG ('95). They had 4 coaches in those 8 years ( Meyer, Venturi, Marchibroda, Infante)...**although Venturi was just a replacement coach for Meyer for part season** (Colts have had 2 coaches since having Manning, Mora and Dungy). The Colts had 3 seasons with 7 or fewer wins in the 8 seasons prior to Manning.

The NE Patriots BEFORE Brady (8 years). The NE Patriots were closer to the situation of Shula with Griese and Marino. The Patriots of course just prior to Brady had Bledsoe at QB, and Parcells at coach. So even WITh having a HoF coach, and a Franchise QB... the 8 years prior to Brady the NE Patriots were 64-64...50%..with 4 playoff seasons ...'94, '96, '97, '98...and one SB appearance... a 3-3 playoff record. The Patriots had 3 coaches in the 8 seasons before Brady (Parcells, Carroll, Belicheck) The Patriots had 3 seasons with 7 or fewer wins in the 8 seasons prior to Brady. **interestingly enough, the Patriots were 10-6, 9-7, 8-8 under Carroll and before Belicheck... and Belicheck raised them to a 5-11 season his first year.. the only year without Brady.**

LOOKING at all the numbers and stats here... Shanahan has the BIGGEST winning percentage of any head coach that has lost a Franchise QB other than Tom Landry. Shanahan has more playoff seasons than ANY other coach that has lost a franchise QB... other than Landry. But the BIGGEST thing I find interesting... is that the THREE teams that kept the ONE coach (Pittsburgh, Cowboys, Denver).. are the biggest winners.

STBumpkin

10-08-2007, 12:38 PM

good read, thanks for the work.

Borks147

10-08-2007, 12:39 PM

finally, the 100 post rule nullified by a great post.

sirhcyennek81

10-08-2007, 12:42 PM

Sweet post.

:Broncos:

rovolution

10-08-2007, 12:44 PM

The Steelers did have an AFC Champ Game appearance after Bradshaw left.

In 1984, but no one remembers it b/c Marino torched them pretty good.

Caligula

10-08-2007, 12:51 PM

The Steelers did have an AFC Champ Game appearance after Bradshaw left.

In 1984, but no one remembers it b/c Marino torched them pretty good.

you are right, that was supposed to read 'one' and not 'no'.... thanks for bringing to my attention.... fixed. :notworthy

ro_50

10-08-2007, 01:03 PM

Excellent work. Very informative.

Caligula

10-08-2007, 02:25 PM

thank you... glad you enjoyed.

But I'm wondering if anyone else out there is just opening up and closing, or if anyone has anything to add?

Caligula

10-08-2007, 06:59 PM

:strong: :curtsey: ^5

Sassy

10-08-2007, 07:29 PM

Nice research!

HEAV

10-08-2007, 07:44 PM

backup qb

10-08-2007, 07:54 PM

great work.

Kaylore

10-08-2007, 08:08 PM

But if he ****s up those resources...it's over.
..Said Heav hopefully. Douche.

broncobum6162

10-08-2007, 08:23 PM

Great Post!!!!!!!! Now I can sleep tonite. LOL

Rock Chalk

10-08-2007, 08:36 PM

..Said Heav hopefully. Douche.

Do me a favor and dont quote him...k thanks.

Natedog24

10-08-2007, 08:50 PM

Wow, fantastic post :thumbs:

Coaching changes are the biggest gamble in football, or really sports in general. Sure Denver "could" get very lucky and find a coach that is at least similiar to Shanahan (would be very tough considering that Shanahan has been one of the most successful coaches in NFL history). However, the odds are also very good that Denver could end up with a dud and drive Denver into the basement for a long time.

Personally I don't want to be looking forward to high draft picks very many years, so lets put this fire Shanahan BS to bed and pray he stays in Denver for many more years. Stability is a good thing and stability comes from finding a winner of a coach and sticking with him through thick and thin.

Ugly Duck

10-08-2007, 09:07 PM

We've been to the playoffs in four different seasons with a 1-4 playoff record

Translation: "Our entire success constitutes a quick flash in the proverbial pan when Elway was here. We've only managed one (1) playoff win since he retired."

RkyMtnThunder

10-08-2007, 09:16 PM

Its always funny to see opposing fans 1st bash Elway for never winning the big one, and then inadvertantly suck up to him when boasting of Denver's post season record since he retired.

milehighJC

10-08-2007, 09:48 PM

Very well done. It would be interesting to put this in context of the salary cap and the impact of some of the large commitments the Broncos have had to fulfill for players that are not here (vs what the other franchises had to deal with). Sounds like deep research, but my sense is that the Broncos have done pretty well vs others here too.

jc

Caligula

10-09-2007, 12:07 AM

Translation: "Our entire success constitutes a quick flash in the proverbial pan when Elway was here. We've only managed one (1) playoff win since he retired."

Thank you for the example on the complete INABILITY to see whats really being shown. At least we know where the BOTTOM of the bell curve will start....

Caligula

10-09-2007, 12:09 AM

Both Knoll and Landry where fired...

No one is untouchable...

The shine has worn thin from the trophies...

Fans want results now, and have been told everyyear "We are close"

Now we hear "We have to improve"

Shanny will have a high draft pick in 08 and cap dollars (finally) to spend freely.

But if he ****s up those resources...it's over.

Here's the point.... We ARE getting results. The problem is, there are so many immature and impatient fans that think 8 years is SOOOO long to replace all the SB talent we had on this team.

In the meantime, instead of suffering the 3-13 and 4-12 seasons that EVERY other team does... THIS coach has kept us competitive better than any other. But again... being BETTER than everyone else just isn't enough. No. Its Much much MUCH easier to BITCH about what we 'dont' have, and not realize just how fortunate we have been.

loborugger

10-09-2007, 12:11 AM

Translation: "Our entire success constitutes a quick flash in the proverbial pan when Elway was here. We've only managed one (1) playoff win since he retired."

Whats the faiders record since they lost Chucky and Gannon.

Thought so.

Go back to your hole, troll.

NFLBRONCO

10-09-2007, 12:19 AM

Caligula

10-09-2007, 12:24 AM

Great work on your post solid job.

My biggest issue with the Broncos is Denial. They always say we are close or 1 or 2 players away. If they said, we are working to get better but, we need several more pieces I'd be cool with it 100%. A blind man can see we need lots of upgrades all over. One or two players away your not 2-6 at home in last 8 games.

But come on. Thats just PR and positive talk. Would you really prefer a coach that said "we aren't close, and are just using this season to build on." What would that tell the players on the team? I dont' listen to the coaches and their positive talk and take it as anything other than just that. They aren't making promises. I want the coaches to keep things as positive as possible.. and for the players to carry on the same attitude and the same comments. Even if they DON'T mean it inside.

I wouldn't want to be the Head Honcho... the Coach... and say "its just a building season." How would the leaders of the team expect to get up for the games.... what does that say to the rookies coming in? No. Always always always talk that they are going for the trophy, and let that type of mindset trickle down the ranks.

NFLBRONCO

10-09-2007, 12:35 AM

Here's the point.... We ARE getting results. The problem is, there are so many immature and impatient fans that think 8 years is SOOOO long to replace all the SB talent we had on this team.

In the meantime, instead of suffering the 3-13 and 4-12 seasons that EVERY other team does... THIS coach has kept us competitive better than any other. But again... being BETTER than everyone else just isn't enough. No. Its Much much MUCH easier to b**** about what we 'dont' have, and not realize just how fortunate we have been.

I agree you can't reload team that fast you are correct on that one. My view is the reason we aren't closer is we made too many WRONG decisions since SB years. I expect them to make mistakes over and over the point is not make more mistakes vs good moves. The NFL keeps evolving and teams have to keep up. Things that worked in 98 do not work now. We have done a great job for years winning games you are correct. In my opinion we are slipping alot. Mike brings up the Colts D and how they got better as season we along but, fails to mention their offense that scores 35 points a game ours does not. From my other post better talented teams aren't 2-6 at home even with a young QB.

NFLBRONCO

10-09-2007, 12:41 AM

But come on. Thats just PR and positive talk. Would you really prefer a coach that said "we aren't close, and are just using this season to build on." What would that tell the players on the team? I dont' listen to the coaches and their positive talk and take it as anything other than just that. They aren't making promises. I want the coaches to keep things as positive as possible.. and for the players to carry on the same attitude and the same comments. Even if they DON'T mean it inside.

I wouldn't want to be the Head Honcho... the Coach... and say "its just a building season." How would the leaders of the team expect to get up for the games.... what does that say to the rookies coming in? No. Always always always talk that they are going for the trophy, and let that type of mindset trickle down the ranks.

I see what your saying. Deep down though how can our best players not know we need alot more help whether the coach says it or not. We are getting over powered game after game. We aren't physical enough right now/

Caligula

10-09-2007, 12:43 AM

I agree you can't reload team that fast you are correct on that one. My view is the reason we aren't closer is we made too many WRONG decisions since SB years. I expect them to make mistakes over and over the point is not make more mistakes vs good moves. The NFL keeps evolving and teams have to keep up. Things that worked in 98 do not work now. We have done a great job for years winning games you are correct. In my opinion we are slipping alot. Mike brings up the Colts D and how they got better as season we along but, fails to mention their offense that scores 35 points a game ours does not. From my other post better talented teams aren't 2-6 at home even with a young QB.

Well.. I think a team's success is directly tied to the QB. As we've seen in the NFL, so many teams continue to try and find that franchise QB. Those that continue to look, continue to be in the mid ranges. Those that have the better QBs have the most difficult position filled, the other slots just seem to fall into place.

I noted how far some of these teams that continue to be unable to find that franchise QB.. and how they (despite losing their franchise QB roughly around the same time we did).... are losing around 15-20% more games per season. Thats 2-3 games a year average.

Everyone wishes and wants more. THe problem is.... they want it so quickly. To replace a single HoF player and SB talent is enough. But look at the kind of talent we lost, and how long it takes to accumulate that kind of talent. Not only Elway, but TD, Sharpe, Romo, Griffin, McCaffrey, Smith, Atwater, Schlereth and Zimmerman.... its just tough, and 8 years really isn't as long as so many on here would like to proclaim.

HEAV

10-09-2007, 08:53 AM

Caligula

10-09-2007, 01:33 PM

Some accept average, while others demand a higher level.

Considering what we've accomplished without having the luxury of having that elite QB, we have been higher than average. Considering we have gone to the playoffs 50% of the time, that is above average. Considering we are winning 15-20% (2-3 games a year) MORE games per season than the other teams that have lost their franchise QB, we ARE above average.

The problem is, SOME think the grass is always greener on the other side. SOME think the answer is to fire.. and then HOPE to find another coach as GOOD as Shanahan. Not good odds. :thumbsup:

HEAV

10-09-2007, 02:17 PM

Considering what we've accomplished without having the luxury of having that elite QB, we have been higher than average. Considering we have gone to the playoffs 50% of the time, that is above average. Considering we are winning 15-20% (2-3 games a year) MORE games per season than the other teams that have lost their franchise QB, we ARE above average.

The problem is, SOME think the grass is always greener on the other side. SOME think the answer is to fire.. and then HOPE to find another coach as GOOD as Shanahan. Not good odds. :thumbsup:

How many AFC West titles? How many playoff wins? How many wasted draft picks? How many free agent bust's?

Dude we can play this game all week long.

You have you opinions and I have mine. You happy to get there and lose to Baltimore,Colts, win one playoff game, then blow a "Home" AFC championship game.

Caligula

10-09-2007, 03:42 PM

How many AFC West titles? How many playoff wins? How many wasted draft picks? How many free agent bust's?

Dude we can play this game all week long.

You have you opinions and I have mine. You happy to get there and lose to Baltimore,Colts, win one playoff game, then blow a "Home" AFC championship game.

Happy with it? No. But do I honestly believe that we are merely an 'average' team and that we can simply fire our coach and find BETTER??? No!

There's the bigger problem than simply crying out "we need more wins." Who do you replace shanahan with? How long do you give that coach to give your your "afc titles?" The average between championships appearances is 13 years.... I've shown that we are winning more than anyone else EVER HAS with the loss of the most important position.... What else can be expected???

So not only do you WANT more than has ever been done.. but you want LOTS AND LOTS more! I mean, is it really the results that are the problem, or your expectations???

HEAV

10-09-2007, 03:52 PM

I mean, is it really the results that are the problem, or your expectations???

Both!

I want this fanchise to be taking serious! I want this franchise to be at the top with the Patriots, Colts in the AFC.

No one remebers average, they remember great. Getting to the front door and then tossed out the back isn't cutting it.

Like I said we can spin this wheel all week. You have you opinions and I have mine.