Are you willing to accept a losing season? [Archive] - The Orange Mane

Ratboy

10-08-2007, 02:35 AM

Now that I have calmed down from how horrible we are, I have a question.

Are you willing to accept a losing season for a top 5 or 10 pick in the draft? I personally am willing to stomach the losses and draft a top DT or LB. This team has huge holes and a premier Defensive Tackle/Middle Linebacker could do this team good. I don't think i'm being too negative, I rather have a losing season than an average season and barely missing the playoffs..

GoBroncos0838

10-08-2007, 02:43 AM

Yes, a top 10 D-lineman could help us instantly... just ask Mario Williams... I mean, Gaines Adams.... I mean, Jarvis Moss... The correct answer is a rookie D-lineman, I don't care if he is the second coming of Reggie White will take years to develop. So the answer is HELL NO, I will not settle for a 5 win season, the fans deserve more then a wait and see attitude.

Killericon

10-08-2007, 02:45 AM

WE'RE ****ING 2-3!!!!

My god. This place knows how to host a metldown.

SoCalBronco

10-08-2007, 02:48 AM

Sure I would. We need another infusion of talent. We got a really nice one in 2006, the 2007 class, its a little early to tell, but we got a pretty damn good shot in the arm in 2006 on the offensive side of the ball with Cutler, Walker (SFs 2nd), Scheffler, Marshall etc. We need a similar boost in 2008. A top 10 pick would go a long way towards helping us to replenish our defense. You can take that pick, move down, and get more quality picks and hopefully it is repeat of 2006 but this time on the other side of the ball.

I'm not saying throw in the towel right now, rather, I am just looking at it from the perspective of value vs. alternative value. We must ask ourselves what is the probable outcome of this season? No one would ever choose the option you described if there was a reasonable belief that the team could not only qualify for the postseason but do damage there and possibly go the distance. It seems quite clear that we could not reasonably say that about this team. Sure, the playoffs are a possibility, given the overall weakness of the division, but it would strain credulity to suggest that we could do anything better than one and done (at best). If that is the case, I think its perfectly defensible to say that the long term benefit of a much higher draft choice would be worth having a losing season. This is obviously a transition year, anyway. I'll gladly take the higher pick and then proceed to trade back down to where we usually are and accumulate more picks, since a) That's what I believe you should almost always do in general and also because b) we have multiple areas that require substantial improvement (and therefore the need for more quality selections).

So, yeah, if you are asking me which I would choose given the current circumstances, I would easily choose the losing season and take the long term benefit.

Ratboy

10-08-2007, 02:51 AM

We could be 5-0 for all i care. This team is horrible. We can't score on offense and our defense couldn't stop a JV football team. Our record doesn't matter, Did you watch the game? We're a ****ing joke this year. There is a point where you have to snap out of your fantasy world and realize, we're going to have a losing season. Jay Cutler could salvage this season, but he isn't calling the plays.

Killericon

10-08-2007, 02:52 AM

Sure I would. We need another infusion of talent. We got a really nice one in 2006, the 2007 class, its a little early to tell, but we got a pretty damn good shot in the arm in 2006 on the offensive side of the ball with Cutler, Walker (SFs 2nd), Scheffler, Marshall etc. We need a similar boost in 2008. A top 10 pick would go a long way towards helping us to replenish our defense. You can take that pick, move down, and get more quality picks and hopefully it is repeat of 2006 but this time on the other side of the ball.

I'm not saying throw in the towel right now, rather, I am just looking at it from the perspective of value vs. alternative value. We must ask ourselves what is the probable outcome of this season? No one would ever choose the option you described if there was a reasonable belief that the team could not only qualify for the postseason but do damage there and possibly go the distance. It seems quite clear that we could not reasonably say that about this team. Sure, the playoffs are a possibility, given the overall weakness of the division, but it would strain credulity to suggest that we could do anything better than one and done (at best). If that is the case, I think its perfectly defensible to say that the long term benefit of a much higher draft choice would be worth having a losing season. This is obviously a transition year, anyway. I'll gladly take the higher pick and then proceed to trade back down to where we usually are and accumulate more picks, since a) That's what I believe you should almost always do in general and also because b) we have multiple areas that require substantial improvement (and therefore the need for more quality selections).

So, yeah, if you are asking me which I would choose, I would easily choose the losing season and take the long term benefit.

Yeah, but you'd take 1st overall pick over making the playoffs any year. You're insane about your draft picks. Your opinion doesn't count.

Killericon

10-08-2007, 02:54 AM

SoCalBronco

10-08-2007, 02:54 AM

Yeah, but you'd take 1st overall pick over making the playoffs any year. You're insane about your draft picks. Your opinion doesn't count.

No, I wouldnt take the No. 1 overall pick over making the playoffs every year. I would hate to have the No. 1 pick in a year where its not easily moveable. I only want high picks for the purpose of trading them for a combination of established players and picks or just picks. I generally don't want to keep it. And I would never forego a reasonable chance at not only qualifying for the postseason but also the reasonable plausibility of doing damage in the postseason, in exchange for a high pick. You have to look at the value against the alternative value. It's not an absolute type of deal.

You are right about one thing, I do LOVE my picks though. :)

Killericon

10-08-2007, 02:56 AM

No, I wouldnt take the No. 1 overall pick over making the playoffs every year. I would hate to have the No. 1 pick in a year where its not easily moveable. I only want high picks for the purpose of trading them for a combination of established players and picks or just picks. I generally don't want to keep it. And I would never forego a reasonable chance at not only qualifying for the postseason but also the reasonable plausibility of doing damage in the postseason, in exchange for a high pick. You have to look at the value against the alternative value. It's not an absolute type of deal.

You are right about one thing, I do LOVE my picks though. :)

I retract my statement. You grossly overvalue draft picks.

Ratboy

10-08-2007, 03:01 AM

You've lost it.

We escaped the grasp of a below average Bills team and the Raiders due to a missed field goal. sure it's a divsion rival, so you can't really say it's an easy win.

I would love for this team to start scoring touchdowns, tackling the opposing teams offense and winning games, but I can't see it. I've been a homer in the past, but I just can't see it this year.

SoCalBronco

10-08-2007, 03:03 AM

I retract my statement. You grossly overvalue draft picks.

When Patrick Kane and Jonathon Toews help turn your Chicago Blackhawks into a powerhouse (which should happen very soon, IMO), I will ask you again about the value of draft picks. :)

I would say that you grossly undervalue them. They are the LIFEBLOOD of a franchise. As between the three major methods (FA, Trade, Draft) of acquiring talent, the draft generally provides the highest upside with the lowest risk (unless you are investing in the top 5-7 where the SB is really high, the SB's are otherwise generally really reasonable). Unlike FA, they aren't fattened up with a nice contract and have incentive to play well. Unlike trades (under current deals), you do not have to worry about the one and done contract year phenomenon with the new team (Warren). You also have the benefit of getting a young player with a ceiling that has not been hit (unlike established guys where you know what you are getting) and you may also sink your teeth into them for usually 4-6 years at peanuts (relatively speaking) with low risk (in terms of SB). This is where ALL the value is in the NFL. If you do well here, you don't have to constantly **** up your cap to make big signings to clean up your draft messes. This affects everything. You should never, EVER underrate the importance of picks. This is why I literally pull my hair out when I have heard Shanny say "sure, we get deals to move down all the time, but they're not sweet enough". This line of thought is the single worst aspect of this team, by far, worse than ANY personnel decisions, worse than schemes, worse than anything else we do, by far.

Banana Pants

10-08-2007, 03:06 AM

WE'RE ****ING 2-3!!!!

My god. This place knows how to host a metldown.

You're right. People are overreacting, including yourself. 2-3 is the least of the problems faced by the Broncos. 41-3 today, and the thievery that went on when they heisted that game with the Raiders should give pretty big concern to anyone who works for that squad. The team is in big trouble, and this looks like a result of a poor rebuild, not a team that is just starting. That's what they're doing over at Arrowhead. At least they've said it all along.

DB_champ24

10-08-2007, 03:11 AM

I wouldnt say id be willing to lose..who wants to lose? no one..I personally hate losing and have never been willing to lose anything I care about, and am not use to losing especially in sports, either playing or watching. Im OBSESSED with this team like many of you on this board..and it tears me to watch them play like this..but as fans all we should/can hope for is improvemnt.. So personally id rather have a winning season because most likely it would mean the team has somewhat progressed..But if we end up haveing a losing season..oh welll

enjolras

10-08-2007, 03:19 AM

The problem is this team is talented enough to win 8 or 9 games.. I completely expect them to win 7. Which puts them at ~12-18.

Killericon

10-08-2007, 03:27 AM

When Patrick Kane and Jonathon Toews help turn your Chicago Blackhawks into a powerhouse (which should happen very soon, IMO), I will ask you again about the value of draft picks. :)

I would say that you grossly undervalue them. They are the LIFEBLOOD of a franchise. As between the three major methods (FA, Trade, Draft) of acquiring talent, the draft generally provides the highest upside with the lowest risk (unless you are investing in the top 5-7 where the SB is really high, the SB's are otherwise generally really reasonable). Unlike FA, they aren't fattened up with a nice contract and have incentive to play well. Unlike trades (under current deals), you do not have to worry about the one and done contract year phenomenon with the new team (Warren). You also have the benefit of getting a young player with a ceiling that has not been hit (unlike established guys where you know what you are getting) and you may also sink your teeth into them for usually 4-6 years at peanuts (relatively speaking) with low risk (in terms of SB). This is where ALL the value is in the NFL. If you do well here, you don't have to constantly **** up your cap to make big signings to clean up your draft messes. This affects everything. You should never, EVER underrate the importance of picks. This is why I literally pull my hair out when I have heard Shanny say "sure, we get deals to move down all the time, but they're not sweet enough". This line of thought is the single worst aspect of this team, by far, worse than ANY personnel decisions, worse than schemes, worse than anything else we do, by far.

I'm incredibly stoked for Toews and Kane, by the way. The Hawks look great. The future is bright. Very, Very Bright.

Now, ask me which team I'd rather be, the Blackhawks, with years of suckage finally starting to pay off, or the Avalanche, who are still sort of riding the wave of their glories of the last decade, but bringing up good talent to replensih the ranks? I think the comparison is a bit apt.

I think draft picks are good, no doubt. However, my time on this board has been during a period in which the Broncos have been a few key peices away from a Championship. You were saying that we should be trading down all the time, and stokepiling. I think we should've been trading up to make the leap. That's all.

SoCalBronco

10-08-2007, 03:45 AM

I'm incredibly stoked for Toews and Kane, by the way. The Hawks look great. The future is bright. Very, Very Bright.

Now, ask me which team I'd rather be, the Blackhawks, with years of suckage finally starting to pay off, or the Avalanche, who are still sort of riding the wave of their glories of the last decade, but bringing up good talent to replensih the ranks? I think the comparison is a bit apt.

.

I don't think that is an apt comparison at all. The question presented here is a narrow one: Given the circumstances on our team right now, would you rather just accept a losing season right now (just for this year) to get a good pick or let it play out and then possibly be halfway decent, but prolly not good enough to do anything at all of value even if we somehow made the big dance and take the resulting hit in the draft.

The question is not a comparison between the Avs on one hand and your Blackhawks and my Penguins on the other, where you have both of our teams going through five years of hell to get a big time payoff now as opposed to being consistently decent over time. (BTW, looking back on it, all the suffering that I went through is more than worth it now that we are lined up to be a modern day dynasty with several Cups undoubtedly in our future).

Killericon

10-08-2007, 03:50 AM

I don't think that is an apt comparison at all. The question presented here is a narrow one: Given the circumstances on our team right now, would you rather just accept a losing season right now (just for this year) to get a good pick or let it play out and then possibly be halfway decent, but prolly not good enough to do anything at all of value even if we somehow made the big dance and take the resulting hit in the draft.

The question is not a comparison between the Avs on one hand and your Blackhawks and my Penguins on the other, where you have both of our teams going through five years of hell to get a big time payoff now as opposed to being consistently decent over time. (BTW, looking back on it, all the suffering that I went through is more than worth it now that we are lined up to be a modern day dynasty with several Cups undoubtedly in our future).

Anybody would want to be the Penguins.

I think I'm confusing this thread and another one...In answer to the question alone, I'll say this. Talk to me after the Steelers game.

Popps

10-08-2007, 03:51 AM

Not trying to be dramatic, here... but I'm just not sure how we can win games.

Honestly, we just don't play ANY defense. Not even a few good series a game. Just none.

I'm as homeristic as the next guy, but I can't make even an illogical, biased argument as to how we can beat any of our next three opponents, for example. There would be nothing to base it on.

I don't know what kind of wholesale changes we could make, at this point. So, I'm just lost as to how we'll beat anyone.

Hell, I'd at least like to think... well, Jay Cutler is getting some good experience. But, he looks sloppy and poorly coached, too.

I dunno. Hopefully something will spark this team up to mediocrity so we can at least have a chance to beat KC or Oakland.

broncoblue

10-08-2007, 09:13 AM

anyone who wants there team to lose..IS A FKNG LOSER!!

Rock Chalk

10-08-2007, 09:15 AM

WE'RE ****ING 2-3!!!!

My god. This place knows how to host a metldown.

We just got our asses kicked 41-3 at home to a 1-3 team.

If that's not cause for a legitimate meltdown, nothing is.

This team will win 2 more games this year. Top 5 here we come!

Ratboy

10-08-2007, 09:31 AM

I'm glad people agree with me. I know i'm not insane now.

bloodsunday

10-08-2007, 09:32 AM

smalltowngrll

10-08-2007, 09:42 AM

I'm not sure that the poll choices are mutually exclusive for the question! Am I willing to accept a losing season for a top draft choice? Yes, I'll accept. But, right now, I still have hope. I don't like the way we have played the last few games and yesterday was just downright embarrassing! But, I still have hope that we will heal from our wounds and find some way to salvage the rest of the season. I don't have unrealistic expectations, just hope. A miracle would be nice about now!

Hercules Rockefeller

10-08-2007, 09:43 AM

Now, ask me which team I'd rather be, the Blackhawks, with years of suckage finally starting to pay off, or the Avalanche, who are still sort of riding the wave of their glories of the last decade, but bringing up good talent to replensih the ranks? I think the comparison is a bit apt.

You realize how the Avs stocked their system for their initial run, right? They picked 1st overall 3 times in 4 seasons, culminating with picking Lindros and then raping the Flyers.

Every team is down at some point for a few years, it happens. It's the cyclical nature of sports, you're not going to see a team like the 49ers of the 80's and 90's anymore. Does it suck? **** yeah it sucks. Denver's been on a great run since Shanahan got here, but this could be the end of it for a year or two.

It's only 5 games, but I agree with Popps, they don't play defense and I don't see anyone else for sure that they're going to beat. Doubt they go 2-14, but if they hit 8 wins this year I'd be shocked. An infusion of talent from drafting at the top of each round wouldn't hurt. Does it mean people are rooting for this team to lose? Of course not.

and FTR, I'll take my NHL team's future over the Pens and 'Hawks despite having started their rebuild a couple years after those two.

defenseman

10-08-2007, 09:44 AM

Not enough options. C. Willing to accept or not accept a losing season is of no consequence. We, as fans, have no impact on it...dman

*The coaches and players are the ones that should be asking themselves that question, NOT THE FANS..

Maximus

10-08-2007, 09:46 AM

As of right now you don't have a choice... the losing is upon you and the worst whippping hasn't happened yet.... The on field implosions start against the Steelers.

55CrushEm

10-08-2007, 09:46 AM

WE'RE ****ING 2-3!!!!

My god. This place knows how to host a metldown.

Dude....including the preaseason.....we've shown ZERO defense for 9 games now. ZERO IMPROVEMENT.

Take your head out of the sand.

Smiling Assassin27

10-08-2007, 10:20 AM

This team will not win the super bowl. Isn't that the goal? It'll be lucky to win a marginal division (that's the only way it sees the post season, btw, as it will not get a wild card since the division winner will likely have 10 wins) and embarrass itself in the first round once again. Do i want them to tank games? Of course not. But i believe we're playing for next year since the goal, let alone even a sniff of it, will not be met this year.

Call me panicky, a bad fan, whatever you'd like. I want wins just like everyone else, but you don't need to get hit by a train to see that the light at the end of the tunnel isn't the sun.

Archie

10-08-2007, 10:27 AM

So - I said Yes not because I want to or even am "willing" to. But it's going to be nearly impossible for this team to win more than 7 games whether I want them or am willing to have them or not.

After the Buffalo win I commented on the one drive in the 3rd quarter that scared me to death. They ran the ball right down our throat on that drive and my thought was "holy sh$% - if teams can do that to us then we are done".

We SUCK on special teams. We SUCK against the run. We put no pressure on the QB so despite good corners and "ok" safeties we can't stop the passing game. Our linebacking corp - probably the best in the game 2 years ago does not exist. Our D Line is absolutely pathetic.

On the O.... Cutler is clearly a 2nd year QB. He's at that point where he needs to realize that just his physical skills won't get it done. I have a lot of faith in him but he, especially as a 2nd year player, won't carry this team - in particular when he'll have to score 40 points or more a game to compete.

The O-line is not the OL of the past. It's not awful but it's not great either. They are doing a decent job of pass protection and an ok job of run blocking. But they are not amazing.

Our running back corp is just not great. Travis Henry is looking more pedestrian every day and sometime soon it won't matter. Selvin Young has flashes of promise but he's not the answer and neither are Bell or Sapp.

TE's are actually a great mix - probably the strongest position on the team. Receivers are ok. Clearly Marshall has huge upside. Getting Javon back will help. Stokley has been ok. We have nothing beyond that.

So... that's my assessment....

Folks - we are in for a LONG LONG LONG year. We have holes EVERYWHERE on our team.

HEAV

10-08-2007, 10:29 AM

I hate loses.

But this team needs talent. O8 could hold a decent top pick and the cap money will be available!

Not to mention this is Jay-C's rookie year.

I'm just remembering all the teams that piss on us and marking it down for next year.

Maximus

10-08-2007, 10:32 AM

I hate loses.

I'm just remembering all the teams that piss on us and marking it down for next year.

You're gonna be pretty rank by next season :D

HEAV

10-08-2007, 10:35 AM

You're gonna be pretty rank by next season :D

Beat the Raiders! :flower:

Ratboy

10-08-2007, 10:45 AM

Beating the raiders by 1 or beating the raiders by 50, it's all the same to me.

Requiem

10-08-2007, 10:50 AM

I never, EVER would cheer for us to lose, or want us to lose on purpose - but this team is going absolutely nowhere this year. If Nalen is out, that hurts even more and with Champ being hurt too - that blows balls. This team is young (for the most part) inexperienced and injury-ridden. As Denver fans we've been lucky for the past decade to experience what, ONE losing season, quite a few 10 win plus and a few 9-7 and an 8-8?

I can't even remember if we traded up for Deltha O'Neal, or if #15 was our original spot (this was before I got into the draft) but if so, it'll be eight years (since out 6-10 season) that we've had a top fifteen selection. Denver's last three selections may have been at #17 (Williams, Moss) and #11 for Cutler - but we had to trade up so much value to even get there. Realistically, and historically - Denver has been a 20's picking team over the past ten years.

Bad years happen, and this might be one of those years for the Broncos. We have an extremely talented young crop of players who will take time to mesh. Cutler has only played a half-season of his young NFL career and there is still a lot of work that needs to be done.

Despite not having a third-rounder, Denver has a plethora of Day 2 picks and a bad year would set them up very well value wise in the draft.

If the draft were today, we'd have the #14 overall pick which could bring in a bunch of talent. It'd be nice to have a top half selection without having to get their via trade and losing value.

There's so much we could do in this class (need wise) and I'm really excited at the prospect of having such a selection.

The question is, who do we get? ;)

DrFate

10-08-2007, 11:00 AM

I would say that you grossly undervalue them. They are the LIFEBLOOD of a franchise. As between the three major methods (FA, Trade, Draft) of acquiring talent, the draft generally provides the highest upside with the lowest risk (unless you are investing in the top 5-7 where the SB is really high, the SB's are otherwise generally really reasonable). Unlike FA, they aren't fattened up with a nice contract and have incentive to play well. Unlike trades (under current deals), you do not have to worry about the one and done contract year phenomenon with the new team (Warren). You also have the benefit of getting a young player with a ceiling that has not been hit (unlike established guys where you know what you are getting) and you may also sink your teeth into them for usually 4-6 years at peanuts (relatively speaking) with low risk (in terms of SB). This is where ALL the value is in the NFL. If you do well here, you don't have to constantly **** up your cap to make big signings to clean up your draft messes. This affects everything. You should never, EVER underrate the importance of picks. This is why I literally pull my hair out when I have heard Shanny say "sure, we get deals to move down all the time, but they're not sweet enough". This line of thought is the single worst aspect of this team, by far, worse than ANY personnel decisions, worse than schemes, worse than anything else we do, by far.

100% right. The struggles we are seeing now is a result of a poor draft grade for the past 8-10 years. Some years have been solid, but you draft poorly and you don't win. We have failed to get quality starters many years, both early and late.

Arkansas Bronco

10-08-2007, 11:01 AM

If we play like we did this weekend it isnt really up to choice if we are ready for a loosing season. I had concerns for our D before but had no idea it was that bad.

Los Broncos

10-08-2007, 11:06 AM

If things continue this way, and we play this bad, it will be a losing season.

I'm willing to accept it, but only for so long.

Some changes should be made come seasons end.

Rohirrim

10-08-2007, 11:39 AM

As far as the poll goes, I don't think we have any choice in the matter. This team is not good and will not win many games. They have the worst STs I've ever seen and they are vying for the worst run defense in the NFL. Since we are not going to come up with any star DTs or LBs during the season, I suggest we brace ourselves. I disagree with SoCal on the trading down concept (which I know he loves). This is the year to pick high and get that D playmaker this team lacks that we can build around. My pick would be Glenn Dorsey.

And get rid of Bates. His scheme sucks. It's old fashioned. Name me a college that plays that kind of scheme? You can't. You're going to keep getting DTs in here who have been trained to be aggressive (like all the 3/4 DTs in the NFL) then you're going to bring them in here and say, "All you've got to do is stuff the middle. You won't get any stats. You won't get any sacks. You'll be lucky if you get a tackle. blah blah blah" Nobody wants that ****. Hell, I look around the NCAA and I can't find any Sam Adams tubbos anymore. They're getting leaner, meaner and faster and they want to play. Reality has passed Bates by.

chawknz

10-08-2007, 11:58 AM

My willingness to accept a losing season does not mean i am READY to accept a losing season.

:bronxrox: :gobroncos :Broncos:

Hogan11

10-08-2007, 11:58 AM

Willing to accept it? I don't see where we have any choice but to accept it, willing or not.

I've seen years like this before....the early to mid 70's, 1990 where Denver was "the best 5 and something team in the league"..the same year some guy lived on a billboard platform till the team won a game (he was up there for several weeks)....the Son of Bum years which was the last time the team had no defense to speak of.....these things happen every few years or so.

Draft picks? Well maybe...the real upside to a losing season is getting the kids a year of experience under their belts so that they are ready to roll on a easy, last place schedule in 2008. That's about the only bright side I can see in this debacle.

Beantown Bronco

10-08-2007, 12:02 PM

the real upside to a losing season is getting the kids a year of experience under their belts so that they are ready to roll on a easy, last place schedule in 2008. That's about the only bright side I can see in this debacle.

That 3rd place 2007 schedule really isn't looking so easy right now.

And those games that are scheduled based on where you finish only affect 2 games a year anyway. It is a really overrated factor.

Jens1893

10-08-2007, 12:03 PM

Draft picks? Well maybe...the real upside to a losing season is getting the kids a year of experience under their belts so that they are ready to roll on a easy, last place schedule in 2008. That's about the only bright side I can see in this debacle.

The "easy, last place schedule" will only be 2 games different from the one of the team that goes on to win the AFC West.

Hogan11

10-08-2007, 12:07 PM

That 3rd place 2007 schedule really isn't looking so easy right now.

And those games that are scheduled based on where you finish only affect 3 games a year anyway. It is a really overrated factor.

Well, let's check it out:

2008
HOME: Bills, Dolphins, Saints, Bucs, AFC South Team
Away: Patriots, Jets, Falcons, Panthers, AFC North Team

That's better than what we're facing this year....of course things change over an offseason, so maybe you'd be right. I expect the Broncos to bounce back as much as any of those questionable teams on the '08 schedule.

Beantown Bronco

10-08-2007, 12:12 PM

Well, let's check it out:

2008
HOME: Bills, Dolphins, Saints, Bucs, AFC South Team
Away: Patriots, Jets, Falcons, Panthers, AFC North Team

That's better than what we're facing this year....of course things change over an offseason, so maybe you'd be right. I expect the Broncos to bounce back as much as any of those questionable teams on the '08 schedule.

What I'm saying is the 2008 schedule may look easier, but it has nothing to do with the "flex" games. Those games you cite are etched in stone no matter what place they finish in.

Hogan11

10-08-2007, 12:22 PM

What I'm saying is the 2008 schedule may look easier, but it has nothing to do with the "flex" games. Those games you cite are etched in stone no matter what place they finish in.

True, but the flex games would give them lesser quality opponets with a poor finish, would it not? Like Jens says, It may only be two games but hey, two games is two games. Everyone has seen the difference two games can make on a schedule/season.

telluride

10-08-2007, 12:36 PM

Moot question. We've got one.

TheChamp24

10-08-2007, 01:05 PM

Come on. We are in the division lead at 2 - 3. The AFC West is up for grabs.

This team isn't that bad. There is something haunting them right now. Something with the coaches -- maybe friction between Bates and Shanahan. Maybe its a hangover from Darrent Williams death. I don't know. But we aren't as bad as we are playing and they can shake it off if they deal with it.

Can I have some of what you are smoking?
I didn't know people still thought we could win the division.
This team is horrible. Defense is beyond horrible, offense is dreadful, special teams is a joke.
Coaching has been pathetic.
Jesus, we will be LUCKY to win 8 games this year. I'm just hoping we can at least split the division games. Don't want to look like the Raiders now.

Beantown Bronco

10-08-2007, 01:05 PM

True, but the flex games would give them lesser quality opponets with a poor finish, would it not? Like Jens says, It may only be two games but hey, two games is two games. Everyone has seen the difference two games can make on a schedule/season.

It could in theory make a difference if all teams consistently stayed good or bad....but for every team that consistently stays bad, there are two or three examples of teams like the Saints or Ravens that screw up that whole "strength of schedule" debate and can flip flop from first to worst in one year.

SoDak Bronco

10-08-2007, 01:21 PM

Football is a unique sport where Chemistry is a huge part of the game. You can't sign a bunch of guys, throw them into a training camp and expect great results. It just doesn't happen. Aka, Redskins in years past. The Broncos will continue to grow, and continue to improve week by week. I can't really pin point the issues, but I don't feel like we are that far away from winning these games,even though they have been lopsided. I think we are all underestimating Shanny getting these guys to rally and play with the heart and effort we have come accustomed to seeing.

My prediction, Denver gets back to stopping the run, being efficient in the red zone, holding on to the ball, and making the playoffs with a home game after we win the division. Sorry to tell you SoCal, but denver will be picking right where we usually do, 24-28 range.

Go Broncos!

TheChamp24

10-08-2007, 01:27 PM

ro_50

10-08-2007, 01:33 PM

It's too early to tell. I mean the AFC West is not that impressive, so there is a chance that Denver, if they get it turned around, has a reasonable chance to win the division.

But if the Chargers play like they did Sunday and get it going, then who knows :>

defenseman

10-08-2007, 01:35 PM

]It's too early to tell. I mean the AFC West is not that impressive, so there is a chance that Denver, if they get it turned around, has a reasonable chance to win the division.[/B]

But if the Chargers play like they did Sunday and get it going, then who knows :>

Sorry, they are going BACKWARDS defensively, offensively and ST's. 8-8 if they sort of get their collective s**t in one sock, 6-10 seems much more realistic.......dman

Rock Chalk

10-08-2007, 01:53 PM

Caligula

10-08-2007, 02:55 PM

I swear.. I'm SOOOOOOOO tired of people trying to use DW's death as some kind of excuse or reason as to why this team is playing BADLY.

The players have moved on. They aren't spending their days thinking about DW. They aren't mourning him any longer. They are men, they have a job to do, they are working. They aren't spending their day's and nights constently feeling 'sad' about a friend that has passed.

CBF1

10-08-2007, 04:06 PM

WE'RE ****ING 2-3!!!!

My god. This place knows how to host a metldown.

With that comment, I have to take it that they do not show AMERICAN football on canadien tv. Denver is 10 seconds and 1 timeout from being 0-5.

This place might know about hosting a meltdown, but there are too many posters with their heads buried in the sand, OR that have zero knowledge of NFL football. This team sucks donkey poop... just sit back, take off your orange colored glasses and watch the pathetic performance from this season.