View Full Version : This team has a coaching problem, folks.
Popps
10-07-2007, 06:10 PM
We're the worst defense in the league and we're inept on offense.
But, beyond that... we've got major fundamental problems. We can't hold on to the ball, we can't wrap up and make a tackle. We run swinging the ball wildly. We can't handle ANY of our responsibilities on defense. You never see this team forcing turnovers and you rarely see us even trying to strip the ball.
Add to that, we've got ZERO attitude and ZERO discipline.
Now, some of this might be a lack of leadership, but what do you call guys like Champ and Lynch? Aren't they leaders?
We can't do the stuff they teach in Pop Warner, folks. We are horrifically deficient at FUNDAMENTAL football.
I'm not suggesting anything crazy, but Mike Shanahan needs to point the finger squarely at himself this week.
Garcia Bronco
10-07-2007, 06:12 PM
Complete Utter Lack of Discipline. They make me ashamed because I know I would do better than each of them if I had a pound of their talent and genetics.
Northman
10-07-2007, 06:14 PM
Add to that, we've got ZERO attitude and ZERO discipline.
This is the brunt of it. I may dislike Billick but at least when his team plays like **** he gets angry about it and shows that he cares. Shanahan acts like he is smoking the same **** that Travis is. I wonder how many years we will have to endure before we have coaches and players who actually want to win again?
eddie mac
10-07-2007, 06:15 PM
Shanahan's untouchable and that's a major ****ing problem because this team's going backwards fast.
Popps
10-07-2007, 06:17 PM
Look at the Chargers yuking it up on the sidelines. Just a relaxing day at Mile High.
SoCalBronco
10-07-2007, 06:18 PM
This is definitely really depressing, but it is what it is. We just have to pick up the pieces and keep trying to work at it. I do agree, though, that among our many problems, is a coaching problem.
Northman
10-07-2007, 06:19 PM
Look at the Chargers yuking it up on the sidelines. Just a relaxing day at Mile High.
Ive switched to the Ravens game. More competitive and more enjoyable at the moment.
fontaine
10-07-2007, 06:22 PM
How is this on Shanahan?
The ONLY unit that has shown any attitude, any fight is the offense.
The defense IS NOT on Shanahan.
The front 7 is NOT on Shanahan.
The TACKLING is NOT on Shanahan.
You think Mike micromanages the LBers to the DL?
ROFL!
That's why he brought in Bates and allowed Bates to bring in his boy Joe Baker who's the LBer coach.
Shanahan didn't hand pick Sam Adams, Kennedy, keep DJ at Mike etc etc.
I'm willing to see how this plays out after the bye. We'll have a fresh D with Bates given more time to fix the problems on D that start with basic freakin' tackling. If he can get this run D to improve then great.
If not and the D is playing like this at week 16 then bring back Larry Coyer in the offseason.
I'm not going to shy away from it - this is Shanny's team and it is a f-ing disaster. He doesn't clean up his crap by the end of the season I will call for his head. This team does have a coaching problem - a big one.
defenseman
10-07-2007, 06:22 PM
We're the worst defense in the league and we're inept on offense.
But, beyond that... we've got major fundamental problems. We can't hold on to the ball, we can't wrap up and make a tackle. We run swinging the ball wildly. We can't handle ANY of our responsibilities on defense. You never see this team forcing turnovers and you rarely see us even trying to strip the ball.
Add to that, we've got ZERO attitude and ZERO discipline.
Now, some of this might be a lack of leadership, but what do you call guys like Champ and Lynch? Aren't they leaders?
We can't do the stuff they teach in Pop Warner, folks. We are horrifically deficient at FUNDAMENTAL football.
I'm not suggesting anything crazy, but Mike Shanahan needs to point the finger squarely at himself this week.
You start with what's in bold. If, you don't have that, it doesn't matter. They all understand the fundamentals of tackling, hanging onto the ball, filling the gaps. They ALL understand that, however, without a nasty attitude and the discipline to stay with the program, you get NADA, a big ZIP and you get your butt beat. In short, they look like a bunch of wimp's out there. Hell, they folded up they tent and packed it away before the second half ended. AGREED there Popps, they obviously have a "losers" mentality, and are worried about one thing, collecting a paycheck. What a joke......the only reason I continue to drop in on CBS and check the score of this joke of a football team is my sox are whooping butt on the Angels on TBS. Gotta do something between innings...dman
*don't hang it on Cutler. He's a virtual rookie, and he's still out there throwing strikes if he can. The coaches and vets should turn in their freaking paychecks. What a disgrace....
atomicbloke
10-07-2007, 06:27 PM
Guys don't forget, Shanny's the best in the business.
In the last decade, he has had only one losing season. You can't have higher bar for excellence. 10 years is a long time and in that time, only one losing season. Thats why Shanny is the greatest coach out there.
Bowlen and Shanny are commited to putting a quality product on the field every year. Thats the reason we are a model organization, the envy of the league.
I wish Shanny coaches us for the next 30 years. At his phenomenal success rate, we'll have only 3 losing seasons in the next 30 years. Isn't that something out of this world?
55CrushEm
10-07-2007, 06:37 PM
Guys don't forget, Shanny's the best in the business.
In the last decade, he has had only one losing season. You can't have higher bar for excellence. 10 years is a long time and in that time, only one losing season. Thats why Shanny is the greatest coach out there.
Bowlen and Shanny are commited to putting a quality product on the field every year. Thats the reason we are a model organization, the envy of the league.
I wish Shanny coaches us for the next 30 years. At his phenomenal success rate, we'll have only 3 losing seasons in the next 30 years. Isn't that something out of this world?
Really? I used to think that, but now, for the 1st time, I'm really starting to question it. WHO THE **** CALLS THE PLAYS?!?!?
Down 34-3....4th down and 4 to go.....we go for it....and call a QB run up the middle?!?! WHAT THE **** IS THAT?!?!
Offense sucks.....defense sucks....ST sucks....coaching sucks....
In all honesty, if we don't get better....we will challenge for the WORST team in the NFL.....****ing pathetic.....yes, I've jumped off the cliff.
Not only aren't we getting better week to week.....we are getting WORSE every week.
I can't remember the last time I felt this bad as a Bronco fan......
Cito Pelon
10-07-2007, 06:40 PM
Shanahan's untouchable and that's a major ****ing problem because this team's going backwards fast.
Pretty much. I've been easy on the guy since so many other's have been hard on him lately. Used to be I was the only guy reaming him. Whatever, I have bets with my buddies that earns me $400 every season Shanny as HC does not win a playoff game. Had that bet since 2000, and it sure is paying off.
this team is worse than last year's team. and last year's team was worse than the one before. not a good trend. :(
Cito Pelon
10-07-2007, 06:50 PM
How is this on Shanahan?
The ONLY unit that has shown any attitude, any fight is the offense.
The defense IS NOT on Shanahan.
The front 7 is NOT on Shanahan.
The TACKLING is NOT on Shanahan.
You think Mike micromanages the LBers to the DL?
ROFL!
That's why he brought in Bates and allowed Bates to bring in his boy Joe Baker who's the LBer coach.
Shanahan didn't hand pick Sam Adams, Kennedy, keep DJ at Mike etc etc.
I'm willing to see how this plays out after the bye. We'll have a fresh D with Bates given more time to fix the problems on D that start with basic freakin' tackling. If he can get this run D to improve then great.
If not and the D is playing like this at week 16 then bring back Larry Coyer in the offseason.
Shanny picks the coaches.
loborugger
10-07-2007, 06:55 PM
I wonder if this lack of execution, lack of discipline, lack of fundamentals is a case of too many chief, not enough indians. Management studies have shown time and again that too many supervisors/bosses is as bad as too few. I think the Skins are a perfect example of this. They started the trend, and its gotten them one post season appearance that was spawned by a 1 1/2 month surge.
Cito Pelon
10-07-2007, 06:57 PM
A good example of how Shanny is not a good HC is right here at this moment. The team is down by a lot of points, but there is no hurry-up O. The O is at first-Q pace.
dsmoot
10-07-2007, 07:12 PM
This is definitely really depressing, but it is what it is. We just have to pick up the pieces and keep trying to work at it. I do agree, though, that among our many problems, is a coaching problem.
There are some pieces that should not be picked up. This is the worst defense in 20+ years in Denver. There should be some benchings and we should put the quickest linemen put in the game - the young guys. I did not see Thomas out there, was he inactive. If you can't wrap up, put someone in who can. You would have never thought San Diego was having any OL problems. We can't challenge anyone man to man. We are being beat up physically. I think a number of players packed it in early.
long beach bronco
10-07-2007, 07:22 PM
With the defense we have, we must blitz like we did in '05, and it seems that Shanny and Bates refuse to do it, despite getting ripped from week to week. This team is a sham, they fooled us all with all of the hopes and expectations of the year. This is horrible, as me and the wife were watching the game, she says to me "i think the broncos quit" and she knows nothing about football.
errand
10-07-2007, 07:32 PM
Really? I used to think that, but now, for the 1st time, I'm really starting to question it. WHO THE **** CALLS THE PLAYS?!?!?
Down 34-3....4th down and 4 to go.....we go for it....and call a QB run up the middle?!?! WHAT THE **** IS THAT?!?!
Offense sucks.....defense sucks....ST sucks....coaching sucks....
In all honesty, if we don't get better....we will challenge for the WORST team in the NFL.....****ing pathetic.....yes, I've jumped off the cliff.
Not only aren't we getting better week to week.....we are getting WORSE every week.
I can't remember the last time I felt this bad as a Bronco fan......
I recall not more than 2 years ago half of you guys bitching about how bad Kubiak was...how Mike always had to take over the playcalling, etc. Well..like they say, careful what you wish for.......
Btw...what happened to all those offensive fireworks we were suppose to see now that Jake the fake was sent packing? Why hasn't TJ put up a boulder blocking the road with a 6 on it?
55CrushEm
10-07-2007, 07:35 PM
I recall not more than 2 years ago half of you guys b****ing about how bad Kubiak was...how Mike always had to take over the playcalling, etc. Well..like they say, careful what you wish for.......
Btw...what happened to all those offensive fireworks we were suppose to see now that Jake the fake was sent packing? Why hasn't TJ put up a boulder blocking the road with a 6 on it?
So we'd be better with Plummer? Give it a rest already....you and all the other Plummer ball huggers make me laugh.
jutang
10-07-2007, 07:39 PM
[QUOTE=55CrushEm;1743584]Really? I used to think that, but now, for the 1st time, I'm really starting to question it. WHO THE **** CALLS THE PLAYS?!?!?
Down 34-3....4th down and 4 to go.....we go for it....and call a QB run up the middle?!?! WHAT THE **** IS THAT?!?!
Problem is when Cutler ran that in practice he went for 20 yards
:strong:
FrontRowSeat1
10-07-2007, 07:46 PM
I never expected that The Broncos would fall so far so fast and pass the Chiefs on the way. Bowen wont pull the plug, Shanny is untouchable. Maybe Kubiack was more the reason for Good teams than anyone knew.
Sad days ahead.
Darkdoc
10-07-2007, 07:49 PM
This isn't a team problem that changing a few players will help.
It is a problem that requires massive coaching intervention.
I'm certain that Shanahan knows this, too.
But will he have the courage and cahunas to do it? Don't know.
He always seems to wait too long to make changes that look obvious to anyone else.
This is the first year in all the years watching the team that I have no desire to see replays of the games. I haven't had the urge to see one replay yet this year.
Darkdoc
10-07-2007, 07:52 PM
Ironic that San Diego probably thinks they have finally turned the corner this year.
They won't for a moment stop to consider how badly we are playing.
Rohirrim
10-07-2007, 07:52 PM
If it was up to me I'd overhaul this team from the top down. The Shanahan era is over. Did you see the post-game interviews? He used the word "hopefully" over and over. Hopefully we can fix this. Hopefully we play better next time. Same thing as the last two weeks. Shanahan needs to go somewhere else and the Broncos need a new philosophy.
FrontRowSeat1
10-07-2007, 07:55 PM
Ego makes smart men do very unsmart things.
Popps
10-07-2007, 07:57 PM
If it was up to me I'd overhaul this team from the top down. The Shanahan era is over. Did you see the post-game interviews? He used the word "hopefully" over and over. Hopefully we can fix this. Hopefully we play better next time. Same thing as the last two weeks. Shanahan needs to go somewhere else and the Broncos need a new philosophy.
I don't know, man. I'm a big Shanahan guy... and this season is really a disappointment. He had a couple of high draft picks and some FA money, and somehow made this team worse.
I'm not on the Fire-Him Bus, but I'm very disappointed. There may come a point here where the only thing that will work is another direction. That's not to say he's not a great coach, it's just getting to the point where HE has to answer some questions about what HE is doing... and how he managed to make this team worse.
MileHighMagic
10-07-2007, 08:03 PM
Whatever, I have bets with my buddies that earns me $400 every season Shanny as HC does not win a playoff game. Had that bet since 2000, and it sure is paying off.
Suck my **** you phony piece of ****!!
400HZ
10-07-2007, 08:05 PM
Ironic that San Diego probably thinks they have finally turned the corner this year.
They won't for a moment stop to consider how badly we are playing.
It's a start. The Chiefs suck too and they beat us.
Rohirrim
10-07-2007, 08:05 PM
I don't know, man. I'm a big Shanahan guy... and this season is really a disappointment. He had a couple of high draft picks and some FA money, and somehow made this team worse.
I'm not on the Fire-Him Bus, but I'm very disappointed. There may come a point here where the only thing that will work is another direction. That's not to say he's not a great coach, it's just getting to the point where HE has to answer some questions about what HE is doing... and how he managed to make this team worse.
It's been ten years with one playoff win. Now this team is worse than ever. Worse than the Griese era. Worse than the Plummer era. I don't think the players are listening anymore. I don't think it's going to change until there's a new voice in Dove Valley.
Is this the problem?
<FONT size=3><?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comhttp://www.orangemane.com/BB/ /><o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT> </P><P><B><FONT face=FOOTBALL STAFF</B>
Coaching Staff
Mike Heimerdinger (http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=357&contentID=5573) - Assistant Head Coach/Quarterbacks
Rick Dennison (http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=357&contentID=628) - Offensive Coordinator/Offensive Line
Jim Bates (http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=357&contentID=6912) - Assistant Head Coach/Defense
Bob Slowik (http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=357&contentID=4047) - Defensive Coordinator/Defensive Backs
Scott O'Brien (http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=357&contentID=6955) - Special Teams Coordinator
Steve Watson (http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=357&contentID=639) - Associate Head Coach
Joe Baker (http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=357&contentID=6954) - Linebackers
Jeremy Bates (http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=357&contentID=5835) - Wide Receivers/Quarterbacks
Ronnie Bradford (http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=357&contentID=624) - Assistant Defensive Backs
Jacob Burney (http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=357&contentID=625) - Defensive Line
Keith Burns (http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=357&contentID=7322) - Special Teams Assistant
Dwayne Chandler (http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=357&contentID=7093) - Assistant Strength and Conditioning
Charlie Jackson (http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=357&contentID=7029) - Defensive Assistant
Bill Johnson (http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=357&contentID=6922) - Defensive Line
Pat McPherson (http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=357&contentID=631) - Tight Ends
Jim Ryan (http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=357&contentID=4145) - Offensive Assistant
Greg Saporta (http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=357&contentID=634) - Assistant Strength and Conditioning
Ryan Slowik (http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=357&contentID=4481) - Special Teams Assistant
Bobby Turner (http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=357&contentID=637) - Running Backs
Rich Tuten (http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=357&contentID=638) - Strength and Conditioning
Kristi Nichols - Assistant Coaches Secretary
<o:p></o:p>
Who would you listen to I can’t work for more then one boss at a time.
<o:p></o:p>
When Clinton went to the Redskins he said Bobby would tell him one thing and the others chimed in and all he heard was bla bla bla.
It has to be worse now they have more coachs.
We have absolutely no leadership on the field for this team. Zip on offense, zero on defense. NONE.
Remedy that and it will be surprising how fast this team turns around.
Leadership can be explained as making a big play in the clutch, doing your job, raising the play of your teamates or inspiring the team overall. Leadership is needed particularly on the front lines of both units of our team.
Until we fix this problem, we will not contend for anything. Leadership is not only held to the players on the field but also the coaches off of it. I think a good Shanahan $torm would do this team some good. Some players gotta understand that Shanahan will put his foot down.
I wouldn't mind cutting a millionaire player in mid-season right now if it would get the point across. That might be what it takes, this team is LOST right now.
I don't know, man. I'm a big Shanahan guy... and this season is really a disappointment. He had a couple of high draft picks and some FA money, and somehow made this team worse.
I'm not on the Fire-Him Bus, but I'm very disappointed. There may come a point here where the only thing that will work is another direction. That's not to say he's not a great coach, it's just getting to the point where HE has to answer some questions about what HE is doing... and how he managed to make this team worse.
the team on the field doesn't match the talent on paper. somehow, the total is less than the sum of parts. so i agree, only coaching and gameplanning can account for that.
Cito Pelon
10-07-2007, 08:46 PM
Suck my **** you phony piece of ****!!
Back atcha. Go Cubbies!!! :~ohyah!:
Basileus777
10-07-2007, 08:47 PM
the team on the field doesn't match the talent on paper. somehow, the total is less than the sum of parts. so i agree, only coaching and gameplanning can account for that.
The team's problem (or one of them) is a lack of talent. The run defense is terrible, but with the personnel running it, it should be terrible. Its one of the worst defensive front sevens in the league even on paper.
Cito Pelon
10-07-2007, 08:51 PM
I don't know, man. I'm a big Shanahan guy... and this season is really a disappointment. He had a couple of high draft picks and some FA money, and somehow made this team worse.
I'm not on the Fire-Him Bus, but I'm very disappointed. There may come a point here where the only thing that will work is another direction. That's not to say he's not a great coach, it's just getting to the point where HE has to answer some questions about what HE is doing... and how he managed to make this team worse.
Shanahan is pretty much a bag of wind, has been for years.
Rigs11
10-07-2007, 08:52 PM
So we'd be better with Plummer? Give it a rest already....you and all the other Plummer ball huggers make me laugh.
He has a point. All you plummer bashers blamed it all on plummer when we lost. Hell wven when we won.Now that cutler is at the helm we can't blame him for 3 measly points?Don't gime this crap about him being a rookie either. I went to the game he threw some shetty passes including the INT which was a high school pass.
The team's problem (or one of them) is a lack of talent. The run defense is terrible, but with the personnel running it, it should be terrible. Its one of the worst defensive front sevens in the league even on paper.
i'm talking overall. granted the DL doesn't look too good on paper. but even on special teams, on paper they *should* be better than they are. e.g., it seems like every opposing kicker can boot it 6-7 yards into the endzone, yet Sauerbraun can only do that about a third of the time, yet he's supposed to have this awesome kicking leg. there are a bunch of examples like this... guys who should be playmakers on the field, but end up playing more like casper the friendly ghost.
gunns
10-07-2007, 09:10 PM
If it was up to me I'd overhaul this team from the top down. The Shanahan era is over. Did you see the post-game interviews? He used the word "hopefully" over and over. Hopefully we can fix this. Hopefully we play better next time. Same thing as the last two weeks. Shanahan needs to go somewhere else and the Broncos need a new philosophy.
Last two weeks? How about the last year and a half. Every thing that happens on the Broncos, every decision has Shanahan's stamp of approval. For the last few years we have settled for those that "might" work in our system. The Cleveland line was a disaster and set us back. The play calling has gotten stale. How many times does Shanahan use a QB sneak on a 4th down? Shanahan is panicking, his desperation is showing. In the past he would have never brought in players with question marks. If he's so desperate why didn't we bring in the best in free agency. Adalius Thomas?
Shanahan is the head coach. That's what he should concentrate on. It's time for a REAL general manager so all of Shanahan's focus can be on coaching. Get rid of anyone with the last name Slowik, Dennison, and Heimerdinger and pay to bring in the best. I'm been optiimistic this year at what I've seen with this team, but today I had to question if it's going to continue this way?
Maximus
10-07-2007, 09:21 PM
Ironic that San Diego probably thinks they have finally turned the corner this year.
They won't for a moment stop to consider how badly we are playing.
Never fear the Raiders will Spank their ass next week... and there will be no doubt about how terrible the donkeys are
telluride
10-07-2007, 09:33 PM
Firing these people would help:
Mike Heimerdinger - Assistant Head Coach/Quarterbacks
Rick Dennison - Offensive Coordinator/Offensive Line
Jim Bates - Assistant Head Coach/Defense
Bob Slowik - Defensive Coordinator/Defensive Backs
Scott O'Brien - Special Teams Coordinator
But the fact remains that this team has shown no improvement week to week. None. And that's a head coaching problem.
lazarus4444
10-07-2007, 09:34 PM
Bill Cowher is on deck. I'm no longer on the Shanny bandwagon, fell off after the 3rd quarter. LEts find a new philosphy. And it looks like we have too many chiefs and not enough indians in the coaching staff. We have a young team with talent at key positions. Time to go in a different direction, preferably one that is defensive minded with solid fundamentals (Cowher).
ro_50
10-07-2007, 09:43 PM
I can't believe I'm saying this but this team has no heart, period.
This is by far the worst D and special teams I've seen in years. The offense is nothing to boast about it either.
And with the Steelers and Packers coming up, I dont even want to think about bad it could get if they dont get things straighten out during the bye week.
Just flat out pathetic and inexcusable.
theAPAOps5
10-07-2007, 09:43 PM
Just say no to Cowher that guy is a baby and fluked himself to a SB title.
Broncojef
10-07-2007, 09:58 PM
I'm not a huge Cowher fan but his record and achievements speak for themselves. He always had his team ready and succeeded despite losing FA talent every year. I sometimes marveled at how he did it. His SB was no fluke, look how many AFC Championship games and overall play-off games he was in. That being said I still like Shanny but really wonder what he is thinking sometimes, especially with the play calling.
Broncoman13
10-07-2007, 10:13 PM
We're the worst defense in the league and we're inept on offense.
But, beyond that... we've got major fundamental problems. We can't hold on to the ball, we can't wrap up and make a tackle. We run swinging the ball wildly. We can't handle ANY of our responsibilities on defense. You never see this team forcing turnovers and you rarely see us even trying to strip the ball.
Add to that, we've got ZERO attitude and ZERO discipline.
Now, some of this might be a lack of leadership, but what do you call guys like Champ and Lynch? Aren't they leaders?
We can't do the stuff they teach in Pop Warner, folks. We are horrifically deficient at FUNDAMENTAL football.
I'm not suggesting anything crazy, but Mike Shanahan needs to point the finger squarely at himself this week.
We will get the typical BS from Shanny. I'm actually letting the players off the hook on this one. Shanahan, Bates, 'Dinger, Slowik, Dennison, WTF???
I couldn't tell from the replays at the stadium, but was Brandon Marshall's fumble even close? Close enough to challenge?
Jay looked poor today, even lost. We miss Kubes in a big way. Saw that last year with Plummer as well. Funny how man people hated him around here. Now look at what he's doing with Matt Shaub. Hell, look what he did with Jake Plummer! 'Dinger isn't much of a coach.
So, in a nutshell we have one good coach right now and he's in the slump of his career. Shanny, time to call some buddies and figure out what ails you!
mhgaffney
10-07-2007, 10:20 PM
For the present it's just too painful to watch. I've never seen a Denver team play this bad.
Northman
10-07-2007, 10:21 PM
For the present it's just too painful to watch. I've never seen a Denver team play this bad.
I have but its been a long time.
jmz313
10-07-2007, 10:34 PM
I'll say it. I'm convinced that Kubes was more "genius" then Shanny.
"Shanahan hasn't won a superbowl without Elway" says the pundits.
I say Shanahan hasn't even made the playoffs without Kubiak.
SureShot
10-07-2007, 10:38 PM
I'll say it. I'm convinced that Kubes was more "genius" then Shanny.
"Shanahan hasn't won a superbowl without Elway" says the pundits.
I say Shanahan hasn't even made the playoffs without Kubiak.
Thats a reach.
Sir Mawn
10-07-2007, 10:44 PM
I'll say it. I'm convinced that Kubes was more "genius" then Shanny.
"Shanahan hasn't won a superbowl without Elway" says the pundits.
I say Shanahan hasn't even made the playoffs without Kubiak.
Laughable logic. He also hasn't made the playoffs without Ashley Lelie for that matter...
NW Bolt Fan
10-07-2007, 10:46 PM
Ironic that San Diego probably thinks they have finally turned the corner this year.
They won't for a moment stop to consider how badly we are playing.
Here's one fan who doesn't think they've turned any corner. Things went their way early, and donks folded. I want to wait and see how they play with the game on the line. We were equally bad heading into this game.
I'm pretty sure the re-match will be a different game.
loborugger
10-08-2007, 12:05 AM
If Kubes is so damn good, how come Houston isnt an offensive powerhouse?
orinjkrush
10-08-2007, 12:31 AM
ten years is a pretty long run for any NFL head coach. Shanny's stuff has got to be stale. instead of hiring for "name recognition" in assistants, maybe we ought to look for energy, new ideas and youth from the college ranks. instead of retreads.
Broncos_OTM
10-08-2007, 01:58 AM
If Kubes is so damn good, how come Houston isnt an offensive powerhouse?
I guess you missed that kubiak has turned that franchise around!! 3-2 is not great but its better then they were last yearl. and this is only his second year?
Northman
10-08-2007, 06:18 AM
If Kubes is so damn good, how come Houston isnt an offensive powerhouse?
To be fair they are scoring more points than us.
BroncoBuff
10-08-2007, 07:00 AM
To be fair they are scoring more points than us.
And to be even more fair, coming into the Chargers game, here were the rankings:
BRONCOS:
#5 in NFL Offense
#6 in NFL Defense
CHARGERS:
#26 in NFL Offense
#25 in NFL Defense
The offensive and defensive schemes and players are very good (with the exception of DTs and LB inexperience which has manifested in very poor run defense - though still #5 in the league in overall Defense). We're one DT and one LB away from a 10+ win season!
My point is, this is a MENTAL problem and ATTITUDE problem. I agree with you Popps from the standpoint that the coach is the problem - but not coachING. The problem is Mike is too tense, he's gripping too hard, and the atmosphere is soured because of it. We had a good thing going through the first couple weeks, but Mike let the two problem areas (run D and punching the ball in) consume him in a tension-filled stress-ball.
Man-Goblin
10-08-2007, 07:06 AM
Guys don't forget, Shanny's the best in the business.
In the last decade, he has had only one losing season. You can't have higher bar for excellence. 10 years is a long time and in that time, only one losing season. Thats why Shanny is the greatest coach out there.
Bowlen and Shanny are commited to putting a quality product on the field every year. Thats the reason we are a model organization, the envy of the league.
I wish Shanny coaches us for the next 30 years. At his phenomenal success rate, we'll have only 3 losing seasons in the next 30 years. Isn't that something out of this world?
I'm with you, for now. But I have to say that if things get much worse this year he may just quit at the end of the year (the old mutual decision between coach and owner to make a change). Because, let's face it; I never, EVER thought I would see a performance like that from a Bronco team in Denver. Let alone a Mike Shannahan team.
The question now must be: why would Shannahan have any interest in (or knowledge of undertaking, for that matter) the massive rebuilding project this team is starting to look like it needs?
BroncoBuff
10-08-2007, 07:19 AM
I'm gonna say it Pats fans and Packers fans ... I know you thingkLombardi and Belichick are Top 5 all-time coaches, but the truth is not so comfortable for you. They're not 'all that.' Neither is what they seemed, and it's time for their shortcomings to be aired, no matter how uncomfortable it is for you:Lombardi never won a Super Bowl without Starr, and
Belichick never won a Super Bowl without Brady.
Keepin' it real, Keepin' it real!!!
55CrushEm
10-08-2007, 09:05 AM
I'm gonna say it Pats fans and Packers fans ... I know you thingkLombardi and Belichick are Top 5 all-time coaches, but the truth is not so comfortable for you. They're not 'all that.' Neither is what they seemed, and it's time for their shortcomings to be aired, no matter how uncomfortable it is for you:Lombardi never won a Super Bowl without Starr, and
Belichick never won a Super Bowl without Brady.
Keepin' it real, Keepin' it real!!!
And Knoll never won without Bradshaw.....and Walsh never won without Montana.....
elsid13
10-08-2007, 09:20 AM
It amazing how a great QB makes coaches look smart.
55CrushEm
10-08-2007, 09:32 AM
And Shula never won a SB without Griese....and Jimmy Johnson didn't win without Aikman.
Come to think of it....I can only think of 2 coaches that have won Superbowls with more that 1 QB.......
Joe Gibbs did it with 3.....1982 with Theismann.....1987 with Doug Williams....1991 with Mark Rypien.
Bill Parcells won in 1986 with Phil Simms.....and in 1991 with Hostetler.
elsid13
10-08-2007, 09:35 AM
And Shula never won a SB without Griese....and Jimmy Johnson didn't win without Aikman.
Come to think of it....I can only think of 2 coaches that have won Superbowls with more that 1 QB.......
Joe Gibbs did it with 3.....1982 with Theismann.....1987 with Doug Williams....1991 with Mark Rypien.
Bill Parcells won in 1986 with Phil Simms.....and in 1991 with Hostetler.
That why Culter was select last year. Plummer wasn't going to lead us to the promise land, to many bad habits collected from his years in the desert.
55CrushEm
10-08-2007, 09:37 AM
That why Culter was select last year. Plummer wasn't going to lead us to the promise land, to many bad habits collected from his years in the desert.
Exactly. Cutler has skills that Blunder could only dream of having. He also had a better passer rating in his 5 games last year (88.5), that Brady had in his first year (86.5), and than Brady has had his ENTIRE career through last year (88.4), and better than Manning's first year (71.2)....
The kid is going to be good.....really good.
errand
10-09-2007, 04:03 PM
So we'd be better with Plummer? Give it a rest already....you and all the other Plummer ball huggers make me laugh.
As usual the point is missed..... My point is that our defense has been our Achilles heel the past 3-4 years, and yet amazingly damn near every one you clowns blamed Kubiak or Plummer. Our D gives up 41 to Colts, and all we hear is about is how Jake couldn't get it done....or TJ would post a glowing piece on how great Manning is. He even gave us a scenario describing how if only Jake could have scored 42 points.... We get blasted again and the next thing you know, we see all kinds of "roadblock" avatars, etc. with 16 on it. Look I know Jay isn't our biggest problem......our lack of playmakers on D is. But if you clowns are gonna be consistent you're gonna have to blame Jay for ALL our woes.....like you did Plummer
Eldorado
10-09-2007, 04:23 PM
wow. Seriously people. We went to rebuild mode this off-season. 7 new starters on D (if you include the DJ move) and 7 new starters on O. New defensive staff and philosophy. Rookie QB. What did you expect?
As usual the point is missed..... My point is that our defense has been our Achilles heel the past 3-4 years, and yet amazingly damn near every one you clowns blamed Kubiak or Plummer. Our D gives up 41 to Colts, and all we hear is about is how Jake couldn't get it done....or TJ would post a glowing piece on how great Manning is. He even gave us a scenario describing how if only Jake could have scored 42 points.... We get blasted again and the next thing you know, we see all kinds of "roadblock" avatars, etc. with 16 on it. Look I know Jay isn't our biggest problem......our lack of playmakers on D is. But if you clowns are gonna be consistent you're gonna have to blame Jay for ALL our woes.....like you did Plummer
Did you watch Plummer play last season?
I don't think any real fans were throwing him under the bus until he became the most hot and cold QB to ever strap on a helmet. Great one week, absolutely horrible the next. That was our real problem, it didn't matter if the D held a team below 20 (which they did quite a few times last year) or gave up 40, our fortunes as a team rested heavily on if Jake woke up on the right side of the bed that day.
Thats where the Plummer hate came from. The constant back and forth. Great games that gave us all hope, only to see a 2 or 3 pick, no touchdown day the next tearing it away.
Cutler isn't a world beater (yet) but he's at least consistent. You can create a gameplan around him and will more often than not get the desired execution from him, maybe not the results but at least the execution. With Jake we didn't know if we were getting a QB who could throw 30 yards accurately or a guy who threw off target wobblers just 5 yards down the field.
errand
10-09-2007, 04:36 PM
On a positive note......we are still tied for 1st place
errand
10-09-2007, 04:45 PM
Did you watch Plummer play last season?
I don't think any real fans were throwing him under the bus until he became the most hot and cold QB to ever strap on a helmet. Great one week, absolutely horrible the next. That was our real problem, it didn't matter if the D held a team below 20 (which they did quite a few times last year) or gave up 40, our fortunes as a team rested heavily on if Jake woke up on the right side of the bed that day.
Thats where the Plummer hate came from. The constant back and forth. Great games that gave us all hope, only to see a 2 or 3 pick, no touchdown day the next tearing it away.
Cutler isn't a world beater (yet) but he's at least consistent. You can create a gameplan around him and will more often than not get the desired execution from him, maybe not the results but at least the execution. With Jake we didn't know if we were getting a QB who could throw 30 yards accurately or a guy who threw off target wobblers just 5 yards down the field.
Build an offense around him that scores only 3 points ? At home? Say what you want, but we never scored only with Jake at the helm. Again son.... the issue isn't QB. My post wasn't an indictment of Jay, nor an endorsement for Jake.....it was calling out for those who blamed Jake for all our troubles to show some consistency .
Merlin
10-09-2007, 06:20 PM
Exactly. Cutler has skills that Blunder could only dream of having. He also had a better passer rating in his 5 games last year (88.5), that Brady had in his first year (86.5), and than Brady has had his ENTIRE career through last year (88.4), and better than Manning's first year (71.2)....
JC had a much better running game and skilled players than either QB at that time...Not trying to diss JC, but lets be honest in our analysis.
JC undoubtedly has the tools, we have yet to see if he has the head...still FAR too early to pass judgment
No1BroncoFan
10-09-2007, 06:36 PM
[QUOTE=55CrushEm;1743584]Problem is when Cutler ran that in practice he went for 20 yards
:strong:
Yeah, but in practice he's doing that against a high school JV defense, not a real NFL defense.
Ben
ScottXray
10-09-2007, 06:56 PM
On a positive note......we are still tied for 1st place
Nope..
We're 1/2 game out and at least one behind after the bye.
Tied for LAST right now, and have no tie breakers as of now.
errand
10-10-2007, 02:09 PM
Nope..
We're 1/2 game out and at least one behind after the bye.
Tied for LAST right now, and have no tie breakers as of now.
I'm sorry.....2-3 must mean something different in your bizzaro world
bronco militia
10-10-2007, 02:12 PM
I'm sorry.....2-3 must mean something different in your bizzaro world
yeah...the 2-2 raiders are in 1st place in our world
orange 4 life
10-10-2007, 02:29 PM
So we'd be better with Plummer? Give it a rest already....you and all the other Plummer ball huggers make me laugh.
im a plummer ball hugger.
im ALSO a cutler ball hugger (whatever that means).
see my avatar sig.
i dont know about errand, but to me, its a matter of seeing (crystal clearly i might add) that plummer WASNT the problem, just like cutler isnt the problem now.
plummer wasnt the reason we lost the '05 afc championship game, and he's not the reason we struggled last season. he's also not why we faltered down the stretch last year, why our defense went from great to sh!t, and he's not why we got blasted by indy two years in a row.
in '03 and '04 we lost to indy because we have no defensive line.
in the '05 afc championship game we lost because we have no defensive line.
in '06 we got beat up coming down the stretch because we have no defensive line.
this year we're losing games because we have no defensive line.
see a pattern here?
sure, there are OTHER reasons, but the MAIN reason is the play at D-line.
thats why i melted down on draft day 2 years ago. 13-3 team that got a qb instead of TWO 1st round defensive players.
new qb, new defensive coordinator, same problems.
i think cutler is a great young talent and im LOVING watching him learn and grow.
that said, he's got 6 int's, 4 fumbles (1 lost), and a safety so far this season.
is that better than what a veteran plummer would be doing?
cutler is the qb of the future, and its a bright future.
he WASNT the answer to our problems of '03, '04, '05, or '06 and he isnt the answer to our problems now.
plummer wasnt the roadblock, and cutler isnt the savior.
maybe that was errands point. thats my point anyway.
jake
jmz313
10-10-2007, 02:36 PM
Laughable logic. He also hasn't made the playoffs without Ashley Lelie for that matter...
Pretty sure Ashley wasn't was on the Superbowl teams or the 2000 team.
Kubes was in denver from 95-05. how man times did we miss the playoffs? 4? 7 appearances, 2 SBs, went to ACFCG with plummer. Pretty sure he's worth his salary. Look at houston. Hell, Kubes led Houston to a win against mighty peyton last year with david carr.
HorseHead
10-10-2007, 02:38 PM
i'm with "orange 4 life" on this one......
it's starts in the trenches.....
Beantown Bronco
10-10-2007, 02:40 PM
sure, there are OTHER reasons, but the MAIN reason is the play at D-line. thats why i melted down on draft day 2 years ago. 13-3 team that got a qb instead of TWO 1st round defensive players.
Although I can understand your argument, I just don't see any real DLine talent in that first round that they were forced to pass up by selecting Cutler. Certainly not at DT in particular....
http://football.about.com/od/nfldrafthistory/a/2006draftresult.htm
orange 4 life
10-10-2007, 02:55 PM
VERY solid point beantown, and thats one of the reasons i came to accept (and in many ways EMBRACE) the move, but CUTLER wasnt available where we drafted either. we traded, and do you really not think that if defensive line was the priority we couldnt have got a couple impact players with those picks as trade bait?
we couldve.
....and again, i LOVE watching cutler play. i ALSO havent waivered from my stance that drafting him was a MAJOR setback for the 1st few years afterwards, and sadly thats whats happened thus far.
here's to hoping it changes.
2KBack
10-10-2007, 03:08 PM
JC had a much better running game and skilled players than either QB at that time...Not trying to diss JC, but lets be honest in our analysis.
JC undoubtedly has the tools, we have yet to see if he has the head...still FAR too early to pass judgment
here here, I'm all for the excitment of a new young talent, but some of the comparisons are unwarranted just yet. There a list just as long (if not longer) of promising rookies that simply never made it. Hell, Jake was a damn Heisman canidate when drafted but never took the steps to take his game to the next level (or arizona crippled him). Griese made the probowl in his second starting season. I have hopes for Cutler too, but he's not manning/brady yet.