Bring Back Larry Coyer at the end of the season?

[fontaine]

Yes I said it.

It's half time at the chargers game and Champ (4 Tackles) and Fergy (4) have MORE tackles each than ALL OUR LBer's combined.

We don't need Bates for a pass rush. We have Dumervil, Rice, Moss and Crowder and we could get that pass rush from them regardless of who the D-Coordinator is.

I'm not saying this because Bates has failed. I think given a few years, yeah he could get together a very good defense. But that's two/three years down the line. Coyer had the ability to put together a decent defense quickly EVEN WITH CONSTANT DL SHUFFLES. Shanahan gave Coyer much worse at DL than what we have this year but Coyer still managed to put together a cohesive front four with a simple scheme where it was all about stopping the run.

I say wait till the end of the season. If the defense shows no improvement in the run D then bring back Coyer.

I couldn't take another full season of this choke job run D.

[go_broncos]

Yes I said it.

It's half time at the chargers game and Champ (4 Tackles) and Fergy (4) have MORE tackles each than ALL OUR LBer's combined.

We don't need Bates for a pass rush. We have Dumervil, Rice, Moss and Crowder and we could get that pass rush from them regardless of who the D-Coordinator is.

I'm not saying this because Bates has failed. I think given a few years, yeah he could get together a very good defense. But that's two/three years down the line. Coyer had the ability to put together a decent defense quickly EVEN WITH CONSTANT DL SHUFFLES. Shanahan gave Coyer much worse at DL than what we have this year but Coyer still managed to put together a cohesive front four with a simple scheme where it was all about stopping the run.

I say wait till the end of the season. If the defense shows no improvement in the run D then bring back Coyer.

I couldn't take another full season of this choke job run D.


I think with Coyer and current offense..we will win lot of games..

[Popps]

We gave Coyer several years to prove he wasn't worth keeping. We can't dump Bates several games in.

But, I will say... this is as confused, uninspired and soft as I can remember seeing our defense in well over a decade.

It's an utter embarrassment, and I can't believe we found a way to actually get WORSE on D.

[fontaine]

We gave Coyer several years to prove he wasn't worth keeping. We can't dump Bates several games in.

But, I will say... this is as confused, uninspired and soft as I can remember seeing our defense in well over a decade.

It's an utter embarrassment, and I can't believe we found a way to actually get WORSE on D.

We gave Coyer several years because Shanahan knew that we gave him nothing at DL. Instead we took away his talent in Pryce, Berry, Heywerd and replaced it with the Browncos. And Coyer still produced respectable defenses!

That's my whole point. Coyer produced even with a lack luster scrub DL. With Bates it looks like they might produce in two/three years.

Seriously right now we're NOT playing Bates' schemes anyway. We're playing a hybrid, aggressive defense with DBs right up to the line to stop the run. That's NOT what Bates teaches or was brought in for.

I'm all for giving Bates two/three years IF he can show some improvement towards the end of the season in the run D. If NOT we can't waste another season in 2008.

For the record I'm not saying dump him now, but this is ridiculous. Even players that played well last year (in terms of tackling) are sucking right now on D. The players don't look comfortable or even freakin' prepared to play.

Bates you have till game 16 of this year to show improvement. If not, Larry Coyer needs to come back.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Please, anyone who wants to bring Coyer back needs to lay off the crack. This has been a long time coming for this defense, they had the worst scoring defense in the league the last 9 games last year. Last time I checked, Coyer was the D-Coordinator for those 9 games. The only reason they ended up where they did is because they so well the first 7.

[PRBronco]

It doesn't matter who you bring in if our DTs won't stop playing like pussies and our linebackers keep playing like kids with down's syndrome. Do you not remember the abortions that we called defenses the last few years? Larry Coyer will never be a better defensive coach than Bates.
What this team needs is a motivational speaker...preferably one that lives in a van down by the river.

[fontaine]

Let's not forget that Bates was pretty much given a free run on D in terms of talent. We gave him three promising rookies, his choice at DT in trades with Kennedy, then signed Bly, brought in Adams and then Rice.

If Bates had an eye for talent then fair enough but the guys we brought in suck, the guy we let go in Warren actually looked serviceable and worst of all it's Bates who went ahead with the three pansies who can't tackle for sh*t at the LBer position.

What I'm trying to say is that if you're expecting Bates to scout out talent in the offseason to replace our front 7 then forget about it. He already did this last offseason and came up with chicken sh*t.

Our Run D is an embarressment and it's clear the players don't buy the scheme.

[fontaine]

Please, anyone who wants to bring Coyer back needs to lay off the crack. This has been a long time coming for this defense, they had the worst scoring defense in the league the last 9 games last year. Last time I checked, Coyer was the D-Coordinator for those 9 games. The only reason they ended up where they did is because they so well the first 7.

Get your head out of your a$$.

Done? Good. Now think calmly about how Coyer got his defenses to play hard and they all knew their roles and responsibilities, and gaps.

Still with me?

Good. Has our front 7 shown you ANYTHING that makes you believe they know what they're doing?

And btw great example from last years 9 games. We had so many injuries we had to play Ekuban at DT, then Fergy, Al Wilson etc.

Or do you like what you see on D right now?

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Yeah, I need to get my head out of my ass when you're calling for Shanahan to bring back Coyer, the guy who was in charge when the defense utterly collapsed last season.

Wow, they played hard. Still didn't stop teams from going right through them just like the defense right now. Again, you're on crack if you think the defense that ended last season is any different from the current defense.

Yeah, using the last 9 games is a great example, since it shows how the team finished up compared to your apparent belief that the first 7 are what Coyer's defense really looked like. BTW, Wilson was around for most of those games at the end last year.

[ØrangeÇrush]

We gave Coyer several years to prove he wasn't worth keeping. We can't dump Bates several games in.

But, I will say... this is as confused, uninspired and soft as I can remember seeing our defense in well over a decade.

It's an utter embarrassment, and I can't believe we found a way to actually get WORSE on D.

We never gave coyer the D-line help that we've given Bates. If we had Coyer and gave him Moss, Crowder, Thomas, and Rice. We wouldn't have given away Warren for nothing, because he fit the fu<king scheme that Coyer was using....holy hell....this is horrific...

[fontaine]

Wow, they played hard. Still didn't stop teams from going right through them just like the defense right now. Again, you're on crack if you think the defense that ended last season is any different from the current defense.

Yeah, using the last 9 games is a great example, since it shows how the team finished up compared to your apparent belief that the first 7 are what Coyer's defense really looked like. BTW, Wilson was around for most of those games at the end last year.

Herc, I have too much respect for you to get into name calling so let's just stop it here.

Now I'm not calling for Bates' head RIGHT NOW. All I'm saing is that we need to see improvement because there is A DIFFERENCE between Coyer and Bates.

Larry Coyer's D knew their gaps, knew their assignments, and were fundamentally sound in their tackling. Our current D doesn't know what it's doing.

Like I said, IF Bates can somehow get the front 7 to buy into the scheme then fair enough. If not then what's the point in keeping him around?

[ØrangeÇrush]

Yeah, I need to get my head out of my ass when you're calling for Shanahan to bring back Coyer, the guy who was in charge when the defense utterly collapsed last season.


I'd like to point out in Coyer's defense that Warren was injured, Pryce gone, and he didn't have anything besides Elvis lining up on the outside as a DE. Yet we were good until the 2nd half. We had how many three and outs on the offense???




Wow, they played hard. Still didn't stop teams from going right through them just like the defense right now. Again, you're on crack if you think the defense that ended last season is any different from the current defense.


It IS different, we were a penetrating uphill defense with quick DT, and fast DE's. However, since we didn't invest in the DE department and let everyone successful DE go (Berry; Heyward) pluss injuries to DT (Warren) we were riding on skates all year long. We all screamed for DL (Popps) however, this wasn't met as a need until Coyer was gone. We DRAFTED a quick uphill penetrating DT(Thomas), traded for a quick uphilll penetrating DT(Kennedy) and had lying around a penetrating DT [Warren] we might have been better off keeping Coyer around.

[Bronx33]

All i know is bates clearly has zero grasp on the defensive game i would expect a slow start and see some improvement here and there but this D goes backwards game after game and today was just flat sad.

[telluride]

I dont want Coyer OR Bates, frankly.

[GoHAM]

I think at this point I can honestly say I totally miss Al Wilson.

Say what you want about his play and tackling ability over the last few seasons he was clearly the heart and soul of our defense. And I for one miss him.

[24champ]

my question is why is everyone clinging to coyer's nuts? What's he done here that was so awesome to bring him back? I can understand being frustrated with Bates scheme, but cmon bringing back Coyer? Lay off the ciga-weed guys.

[Taco John]

I'd love to have Coyer back. I think he got an unfair shake around here. That said, I'm willing to giver Bates more time to get his defense together. If they're still the worst squad by the end of the season, I probably won't be so generous.

[HEAV]

It's about the talent, which Denver hasn't any at DT or LB, than it is about the coaching.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I thought it was absolutely asinine to let Coyer go in the first place. I felt he did the best job any DC could do (and then some) with the talent we had on the roster at the time. We were just a couple of defensive linemen away from having a championship caliber defense under Coyer, and now we are fast becoming the laughing stock of the league under this new handjob. Shanahan as GM = bad f*@king idea!

[Taco John]

Larry Coyer was the best DC we've had here since Wade Phillips. I thought his firing was rash. He proved that he could take a bunch of scrubs and motivate them to perform above their talent level. Unfortuantely, you can only keep up that act for so long before they wear thin down the stretch.

I'll tell you this much: I don't believe we'd be sitting with the worst defense in the league right now if we would have retained Larry Coyer.

[NFLBRONCO]

Its called smoke and mirrors though. Everybody wants Coyer so we can win 8 or 9 games and 1st round exit. Then we are sitting 20-24 wishing we land that player that will be long gone. This D needs top talent maybe this is the year we get him. We have alot of work to do but, as I expect the Broncos will be in denial and say we aren't that bad when in reality we are.

[Rohirrim]

I'm opposed to Bates basic scheme right out of the gate. I thought letting Warren go was massively boneheaded. I'm guessing part of the reason our DTs have played like **** is they don't want to play Bates ball. If I was a DT, I wouldn't either. Stand there and take up room. Block everything out to the edges. Stand up like a giant turd. What kind of crap philosophy is that? I've been watching Glenn Dorsey at LSU and Sedrick Ellis at USC for some time now. Remember the young Warren Sapp? What do they all do? PENETRATE!!! What does that do? Destroys the running game. Destroys the pocket. Destroys the lanes. That's what I want. Aggression. All four linemen on the attack. Let the LBs clean up the trash. That's defense. Not this Sam Adams massive turd in the road :bs:



Rant over. ;D

[2KBack]

Larry Coyer was the best DC we've had here since Wade Phillips. I thought his firing was rash. He proved that he could take a bunch of scrubs and motivate them to perform above their talent level. Unfortuantely, you can only keep up that act for so long before they wear thin down the stretch.

I'll tell you this much: I don't believe we'd be sitting with the worst defense in the league right now if we would have retained Larry Coyer.

I was one the of huge believers that Coyer was the problem. I was convinced it wasn't talent, it was coaching.

Man was I ever wrong. Coyer must have been some sort of genius to field the defenses he did, beecause with superior talent (Al aside) the Bates Defense is a joke.

[Orange_Beard]

**** Coyer, the are plently of other guys for this job.

[Popps]

We never gave coyer the D-line help that we've given Bates.


HUH!??!!!!!??

What does Bates have?

-A rookie DE
-A rookie DE
-A fat guy who plays on and off
-Practice squad scrub
-"Hot 97"... a guy so useful we deactivated him this weekend

-Elvis (whom Coyer had as well)

-Ekuban gone
-Warren gone

Add to Bates' gift package... no defensive leader in Al Wilson, a numbskull at MLB and a couple of miniature, back-up caliber OLBs.

Now, tell me exactly how great Bates has it in the front seven again?


Look, I'm as mad at this defense as anyone, but Bates doesn't have more to work with than Coyer did. He's got less. Much less. We TRIED to give him more, but it hasn't worked out that way.

[Killericon]

http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/932540/2/istockphoto_932540_panic_button.jpg

[fontaine]

Larry Coyer was the best DC we've had here since Wade Phillips. I thought his firing was rash. He proved that he could take a bunch of scrubs and motivate them to perform above their talent level. Unfortuantely, you can only keep up that act for so long before they wear thin down the stretch.

I'll tell you this much: I don't believe we'd be sitting with the worst defense in the league right now if we would have retained Larry Coyer.


That's what it's all about. Yes our defense collapsed at times in the playoffs against great offenses but it was due to significant weak links (no pass rush -> roc alexander on Wayne, no pass rush -> Roethlisberger on Foxworth), NOT the entire front 7 collapsing like week kneed groupies.

Coyer's defenses were simple and he made sure the fundamentals like tackling, swarming were there. There's no such discipline here now.

What's even worse? Coyer was able to get a defense to generate a LOT of turnovers. Right now, I can't see our DBs getting ints because we're being run on constantly and our front 7 isn't good enough to strip the ball because they're not in the right spots to make tackles near the line of scrimmage.

I'm not saying Coyer was a world beater, but if we're constantly going to bring out average/scrub DL talent then we could use a guy like Coyer who's proven he can make the best of that situation.