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BroncoSoja
10-05-2007, 11:09 PM
Can't argue with that.

Yeah it shows, his playcalling the past SEVERAL years has been outstanding....

Shanny is a genious for the first scripted plays after that he is average to good at best.

Cito Pelon
10-05-2007, 11:39 PM
Yeah it shows, his playcalling the past SEVERAL years has been outstanding....

Shanny is a genious for the first scripted plays after that he is average to good at best.

Well, we'll just have to wait and see. I'm no Shanny lover, but we'll see how it plays out.

enjolras
10-06-2007, 12:09 AM
1.Parcells couldn't get dallas to the superbowl...In fact the last time he won a superbowl was almost ten years before shanahan...

He improved that team every year. He was the one who brought Romo along, and presided over the drafts that have turned them into the team they are today. So while he didn't get them to the superbowl, the team he built certainly has a great chance of getting there if the first 4 games are any indication.

2.Don't get me started on the new england pasteriks... yes they have a great team and have been competitive, but since their last superbowl win according to you, they are average as well. they lost to our"Average" team in the playoffs and lost last years afccg. So again, why aren't you saying that bellicheck is average or that something needs to change there?

Do you REALLY want to compare the Pats record since 1999 with ours?!?!? This team has won 3 superbowls, been in the playoffs virtually every year, and went to yet another AFC title game last year. That's a winning organization. The numbers are very clear, since 1999 the Broncos have had very average results, particularly when it comes to post-season play. They've had one good post-season in that entire span (winning one game, losing in embarrassing fashion in the other). How can you possibly spin that into anything else?

4.and yes, the fact that you like to root for a team that wins is the VERY DEFINITION of a fair weather fan.

In what universe? Wanting and expecting your team to do well makes you a fair weather fan?

If you want to see fair weather fans, look at the Rockies. Those people who only show up to root for the team when the Rockies win... that's a fair weather fan (fair..get it? Like really pleasant).

I root for the Broncos on every Sunday... I sat through the entire Jacksonville game and I'll be in the stands on Sunday (provided my ticket comes through). They can be 4-12 and I'll be rooting for them. But I'll still want and expect them to be better... to put together a team that can truly compete. I expect them to be good at their job, because this is one of the best franchises in the NFL dammit.

5.the difference between me and you is that I am realistic in my expectations. I don't get too high or too low. I want my team to win, but win or lose I will still be there. i WILL NEVER throw anyone under the bus. I have never ragged on plummer, greise, shanny or anyone else in my entire life.

I'll be right there with you...but I don't have to be happy about them being a bad football team.

I get mad, yes, but I am not a fair weather fan, and this is what i am accusing you of. You are a whiney, b****y fan and yes, you shouldn't care what i think of you, but you should care about the lack of honor that you display. I only call out fair weather fans. I have yet to get to 100 posts because i feel that if you don't have something to say don't say it. But these past few weeks have made me so angry at the very ****iness of some of you, that I can't sit back any longer

Maybe you should just stay in your little hole. I'll be happy to expect more out of this great franchise. I'll still root for them with all of my heart, but I also expect results. I expect that the team I love won't accept what their rolling out and that they'll do better.. and if that means replacing the coach then that's fine by me. Football is a game about pride and determination, and this team has shown very little of either. If you think that makes me a fair weather fan, well that's impossible to argue with.

OABB
10-06-2007, 12:53 AM
the parcells and pats examples I gave where to use your logic against you. I really didn't want to compare any of them to Shanny. YOU were the one that started that.

I'll agree to disagree with you at this point, and for the sake of letting this ridiculous thread die, i will post no more in this thread.

we all want our team to be the best and to be on top of the mountain, but realistically it isn't going to happen year in and year out. had we beat the steelers I am confident we would of handled seattle and you wouldn't even be saying anything that you are saying now.

Two more wins and it's a whole different ballgame. this is the reality and why I don't fret too much. Our time will come again, and It will honestly take a debacle for me to want the change you are suggesting.

which, again, is why you are a fair-weathered fan. You expect to win, and get angry when you don't and begin to become emotional and over critical. It is beyond just critisizing with you, it is ridiculous that you are at the point of suggesting it's time for Shanny to move on.

two 4 win seasons and I'll be there with you, because clearly we are headed in the wrong direction. but because our success isn't to your level of expectation, and add that to the list of repeated idiotic posts you have made, yes, you are a fair weather fan whether you see it or not.

Perhaps you should say, "I'm dissapointed, but we are going to get better"... instead of, "fire the coach." do you see the difference?

wolf754life
10-06-2007, 12:57 AM
had we beat the steelers I am confident we would of handled seattle and you wouldn't even be saying anything that you are saying now

lol

Bronx33
10-06-2007, 11:43 AM
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:4G3Rj4_OZBHZPM:www.wcel.org/4976/20/gascan.gif

Moon§hiner
10-06-2007, 11:51 AM
_

wolf754life
10-07-2007, 09:04 PM
lets hear how its going to be allright, lets here the optimism, this is a GOOD team right? you guys are a joke, was that sobering enough for you HOMERS?

mattbeymvp
10-07-2007, 09:19 PM
perhaps the rest of the Mane will finally realize Emperor Shanahan is totally nude, I doubt it though.

I've been saying this for three years now.

Moon§hiner
10-07-2007, 09:22 PM
I never homered about anything....only asked about a viable replacement....you offered Martz and I considered you a joke so I guess we are even. We are both jokes in each others eyes.

snowspot66
10-07-2007, 09:22 PM
perhaps the rest of the Mane will finally realize Emperor Shanahan is totally nude, I doubt it though.

I've been saying this for three years now.

two years ago you said you were wrong about shanny if I remember right, figure your story out yet?

mattbeymvp
10-07-2007, 09:40 PM
I never said that.

Bronco LB 59
10-07-2007, 09:43 PM
I never said that.

What makes you the ultimate douche is you are never here to give any praise, always the first to criticize. Go suck on Mark Kizla's prick.

Blueflame
10-07-2007, 09:49 PM
Wonderful... now we get last week's winner of the "lamest, most useless thread of the week" bumped back to Page One, too....::)

wolf754life
10-08-2007, 02:02 AM
truth hurts, almost as bad as a 41 to 3 ass kicking

HAT
10-08-2007, 04:35 AM
I said it once (actually 3-4 times) and I'll say it again..........

You all are getting too caught up in the "fire Shanahan" aspect of this thread and debating wether or not there's someone better available.....

Whatever.

The fact remains that as great as a coach as MS is....both he and the Denver Broncos will be better served once he RESIGNS. (Caps b/c that's how it will happen)

To Mike Shanahan: I love you man, but the time has come for a MUTUAL PARTING O' THE WAYS. (However what's his name wants to interpret that)...

Stale, predictable, soft.....that's what THIS team has become under the 'Mastermind'. Blame it on D, blame it on ST...but like CBF1 said...who's responsibility is that?

MS has a better shot to win a SB with another team and Denver has a better shot to win a SB with another coach.....FACT.

I'd rather see Rod Smith as HC of this team with ZERO experience at this point.

MS has lost ALL ability to motivate THIS team......spin that all you want, "true fans"......I'm just a spoiled bandwaggoner.

mattbeymvp
10-08-2007, 08:14 AM
What makes you the ultimate douche is you are never here to give any praise, always the first to criticize. Go suck on Mark Kizla's prick.

No, what it makes me is right. Before anybody else here got around to figuring it out, I was your Cassandra, telling you all the truth.

BroncoBuff
10-08-2007, 08:28 AM
Matt Bey is like the common cold ... when things are going well, he's nowhere in sight. But when things go a bit wrong, he'll creep back in ... like a cold in the winter.

mattbeymvp
10-08-2007, 08:37 AM
Matt Bey is like the common cold ... when things are going well, he's nowhere in sight. But when things go a bit wrong, he'll creep back in ... like a cold in the winter.

At what point this season have things gone well? I'm curious about that.

In fact, at what point over the past year and a half have things gone well?

I wasn't here last week, I was too busy watching the Rockies.

HAT
10-30-2007, 02:45 AM
Seems like as good as time as any to bump this......not b/c I want to be right.....I'd rather they won every game since this thread started and having crow shoved down my fawking throat.

But honestly....Shanny has become the new "crane move"....no can defend.

Of course it's not all his fault but you people seriously need to wake up....our boys had every chance to start strong with the way the schedule was stacked full of home games.

3-4 I can live with....2-3 at home I cannot.

Again.....Mike Shanahan is a great coach and he will win another SB one of these days. Just not with our favorite team.

bpc
10-30-2007, 02:50 AM
sometimes you have to take a step back to take two steps forward. we all knew it was going to take time playing with this much youth. we'll be fine... just average this year.

Killericon
10-30-2007, 02:55 AM
Calling for Mike Shanahan to be fired...you guys are ****ing nuts.

HAT
10-30-2007, 02:56 AM
sometimes you have to take a step back to take two steps forward. we all knew it was going to take time playing with this much youth. we'll be fine... just average this year.

Fair enough brother....I don't expect perfection & as I've said multiple times in this thread.....I don't know who out there would be a better option. The only point I've tried to make is that 'term limits' have their place.

STALE.

The 'mastermind' himself has said that no position is safe....competition is good...........why should PB hold him to any less of a standard?

HAT
10-30-2007, 02:57 AM
Calling for Mike Shanahan to be fired...you guys are ****ing nuts.

Show me where I called for him to be fired???

Thanks in advance.

Punisher
10-30-2007, 03:00 AM
Shanny is the face of the denver broncos.... players come in go but hes staying put like it or not.

BroncoBuff
10-30-2007, 03:06 AM
We are very lucky to have Mike Shanahan, and I want him to relax and stay put.

Killericon
10-30-2007, 03:06 AM
Show me where I called for him to be fired???

Thanks in advance.

I wasn't saying it to you, I was saying it to the people who were calling for him "to go".

HAT
10-30-2007, 03:15 AM
I wasn't saying it to you, I was saying it to the people who were calling for him "to go".

Fair enough as well.......But I'm actually calling for him "to go" as well.

Only difference is I want him to walk into Pat's office and say....

"It's been a helluva run...we got John his rings, a new stadium built (not that that is necessarily a good thing fan-wise...but it certainly is for PB), & a young gun-slinger at QB........I think I owe it to you as an owner, the city of Denver, & Bronco fans world-wide to finally admit I've taken this team as far as I'm going to Pat.....here's the keys, the Broncos will always have a special place in my heart......which is why I'm going to take my next job in the NFC"

d:-)

orangenblue
10-30-2007, 08:23 AM
this thread belongs in the trash. Shanahan is like is one of the best coaches in the nfl.

Ratboy
10-30-2007, 09:27 AM
I'm not sure of it anymore. I really do like Mike Shanahan, but it may be time for a new more aggressive coach that will utilize Jay Cutler. I know a new coach won't happen unless Mike steps down, but I honestly think it may be time to rehaul this coaching staff.

Circle Orange
10-30-2007, 10:14 AM
Fair enough as well.......But I'm actually calling for him "to go" as well.

Only difference is I want him to walk into Pat's office and say....

"It's been a helluva run...we got John his rings, a new stadium built (not that that is necessarily a good thing fan-wise...but it certainly is for PB), & a young gun-slinger at QB........I think I owe it to you as an owner, the city of Denver, & Bronco fans world-wide to finally admit I've taken this team as far as I'm going to Pat.....here's the keys, the Broncos will always have a special place in my heart......which is why I'm going to take my next job in the NFC"

d:-)

It's certainly prettier than saying "get your a** outta here." But at some point it will have to be addressed, or you may as well give Shanny squatters rights over the franchise from here on out.

Raiders Rock
10-30-2007, 10:18 AM
I despise that Rat but he calls a helluva game most of the time, as much as he makes me sick to my stomach I have to admit that much.

I think he is overachieving with the talent he has actually... most coaches would be 1-6 with the games you have played this year and I think the edge has been The Rat's gameplan

Broncomutt
10-30-2007, 10:28 AM
I'm on board with the Shanny must go train. I don't really care the slings and arrows I'll have to suffer as a result. I am officially with the fire Shanny crowd, and willing to wait patiently over the next few years while the rest of you homers come around.

I love the Broncos too much, Shanny must go.

go_broncos
10-30-2007, 10:33 AM
I'm on board with the Shanny must go train. I don't really care the slings and arrows I'll have to suffer as a result. I am officially with the fire Shanny crowd, and willing to wait patiently over the next few years while the rest of you homers come around.

I love the Broncos too much, Shanny must go.

I agree with you..He needs to go..

We need to hire bill cowher.

BroncoSoja
10-30-2007, 10:43 AM
I agree with you..He needs to go..

We need to hire bill cowher.

Yup.

His playcalling sucks hell even Cutler knows it does, like he says "I don't call the plays, I just run them".

His decision making sucks, Last week our youngstars played there butt off and were all over the field in helping us win. So do we bring all of them back? Hell no, we diactivate (or hardly play them).

I wont even get to the fact that he can't draft to safe his damn life.

Our Schemes are basic as hell, look around the league and see what other offense's are running them look at our offense. gg

He is horrible in the Red-Zone, unless ofcourse John Elway is there to bail him out.


I could go on and on but I won't I will just end it by saying, what has he been able to do without John Elway? Absolutly NOTHING, the ONE playoff game we did win was actually won by the Denfense....

Garcia Bronco
10-30-2007, 10:45 AM
Shanahan is one of the best in the business. He's got a young team, and do any of you realize how much flux the roster has had from just a year ago. They called plays all night that put the offense in position to win the game, but the players didn't execute.

Next thing...I get tired of the asshats that call him "shanny"...quit typing like a woody paige reject. His name is Shanahan. Spell it right frickin clowns.

Garcia Bronco
10-30-2007, 10:49 AM
Yup.

His playcalling sucks hell even Cutler knows it does, like he says "I don't call the plays, I just run them".

His decision making sucks, Last week our youngstars played there butt off and were all over the field in helping us win. So do we bring all of them back? Hell no, we diactivate (or hardly play them).

I wont even get to the fact that he can't draft to safe his damn life.

Our Schemes are basic as hell, look around the league and see what other offense's are running them look at our offense. gg

He is horrible in the Red-Zone, unless ofcourse John Elway is there to bail him out.


I could go on and on but I won't I will just end it by saying, what has he been able to do without John Elway? Absolutly NOTHING, the ONE playoff game we did win was actually won by the Denfense....


You could go on, but let me put a stop to your ridiculous post. The play calling is fine. It's the execution that lacks and apparently you missed the 49er offense in the early 90's. Shanahan is one of the best play callers in the game and his resume proves it. I realize you are upset we lost. We all are, but quit with the ridiculous over the top statements. Mike Shanahan has been a Champion at every level of the game. And John Elway didn't play in a Super Bowl without Mike Shanahan coaching him. Nor did Steve young.

colonelbeef
10-30-2007, 12:06 PM
One of 3 best boaches in the NFL. He isn't going anywhere. This team is 0-7 without him this year. Give him time with cutler, Marshall, Sheffler, Selvin Young, the young DL, and a few more picks and FA's. Patience young grasshoppers, if the worst of times involve fielding a competitive team in the hyper-talented AFC, things are good. Enjoy watching Cutler grow, Shanahan will work this kid into gold. All of the signs are there, clear as day. Don't let a spot of Bly or a dingle of Webster get you down. The pieces are in place. The offense is set for the future, next year the LB's get focused on in the draft, along with the safeties. Remember, we were supposed to have Al Wilson and Tom Nalen anchoring the units. Not easy guys to replace.

colonelbeef
10-30-2007, 12:08 PM
Addendum- Nate Webster is the biggest hunk of garbage I have ever seen on the defensive side of the football. Please, please let us steal Jonathan Vilma away from the Jets next offseason! He will have a similar impact to that of James Farrior on the Steelers after leaving the jets..

defenseman
10-30-2007, 12:21 PM
Shanahan is one of the best in the business. He's got a young team, and do any of you realize how much flux the roster has had from just a year ago. They called plays all night that put the offense in position to win the game, but the players didn't execute.

Next thing...I get tired of the asshats that call him "shanny"...quit typing like a woody paige reject. His name is Shanahan. Spell it right frickin clowns.

Post elway, his success stops at the AFC championship game once, this year amounting to what will probably be a pretty mediocre year all around. I'd submit, the lustre is off of his armor and perhaps he needs to step back and take a good hard look at what he's doing. Do I desire him to stay, for now? Absolutely, but, I see his tactics now as what I'd call "stale". In short, as intelligent as everyone claims him to be, it's time for the old dog to learn some new tricks wouldn't you say? Timid in the red zone, just doesn't get it done. The phrase "trust in shanahan" doesn't have the same meaning anymore now does it? He certianly doesn't trust his offense as seen quite readily vs. G.Bay at the goal line......dman

colonelbeef
10-30-2007, 12:24 PM
"Post elway, his success stops at the AFC championship game once" and yet that alone makes him more successful than 90% of the rest of the NFL. go figure.

NFLBRONCO
10-30-2007, 12:26 PM
I love Shanny overall and if he stays here til he retires fine by me. Let's be real though without those rings I doubt you'd say the same things right now.
As much of a fanboy of Shanny imo he has done awful building this team. As active as we usually are in offseason we should be at the playing level of Colts NE a SD and seeing us play against them proves we are miles away still. 3-7 at home are we the broncos or arizona right now.

defenseman
10-30-2007, 12:31 PM
"Post elway, his success stops at the AFC championship game once" and yet that alone makes him more successful than 90% of the rest of the NFL. go figure.

Why do people hear continue to compare the "mastermind" to the "rest" of the NFL? If he's that good, outstanding results "should" be consistently achieved wouldn't you say? Have we stopped holding him accountable based on his past legendary "mastermind" status quo? Is not sustained superior performance "his" stated benchmark year in and year out? Again, I believe he may have some issues wrt his "approach" to the present era of football in the NFL. I'm thinking he needs to step back and take a damn hard look at what "HE" is doing wrong and right I might add, then fix it...dman

Jens1893
10-30-2007, 12:38 PM
are we gonna have a shanahan discussion after every loss this season?

Garcia Bronco
10-30-2007, 12:43 PM
I love Shanny overall and if he stays here til he retires fine by me. Let's be real though without those rings I doubt you'd say the same things right now.
As much of a fanboy of Shanny imo he has done awful building this team. As active as we usually are in offseason we should be at the talent level of Colts NE a SD and seeing us play against them proves we are miles away still. 3-7 at home are we the broncos or arizona right now.

Aweful building this team.

Do people realize that in last night's game 1 guy....1 starter was a starter 365 days ago on offense?

We've had complete utter roster turnover from a starter perspective except for about 8 guys. Since this is the ultimate team game...that's a huge blow...and we're still competative.

Bottom line...if the players execute the plays on the field they are unstoppable. That's because of Mike Shanahan. There is nothing stale about it.

colonelbeef
10-30-2007, 12:44 PM
Simple. Because players are not interchangeable, and adaptation to change is a necessity to continued success. Shanahan has the best regular season record over the past 10 years ion the NFL, period. He continually has success equal to or greater than that of anybody else in the NFL, which happens to be the league in which he competes- hence our comparing him to his peers. I would be willing to bet that if we were able to replicate a QB of Elway's stature, and a RB or Terrell Davis's stature, superbowl wins would be imminent. However this is not the reality of the world, so Shanahan instead wins with what he has- be it Brian Griese or Jake Plummer (He took Jake freaking Plummer to the AFC Championship!?) or Reuben Droughns or Tatum Bell etc etc. He is trying to maintain a winning culture while completely turning over the roster- no small feat. Clearly his ultimate goal is to build a core around which he can annually compete for the SB year in and year out. think about how long the back to back championships were in coming- or the Colts, or Pats of today (credit Parcells for building that team aside from Brady)

Have patience. Shanahan willed the 2005 team to an AFC championship almost incidentally. He saw the end of the road with that team, and unlike most NFL cities, decided that that ceiling wasnt high enough- he could have kept winning 10 games a year with that core- and scrapped it for a brighter future with higher upside. People such as defenseman do not deserve to experience the good times, as they are unable to see the "rough" times for what they are. Our rough times are what many teams dream of. Stop being whiny babies and enjoy watching baby Favre grow.

NFLBRONCO
10-30-2007, 12:54 PM
Aweful building this team.

Do people realize that in last night's game 1 guy....1 starter was a starter 365 days ago on offense?

We've had complete utter roster turnover from a starter perspective except for about 8 guys. Since this is the ultimate team game...that's a huge blow...and we're still competative.

Bottom line...if the players execute the plays on the field they are unstoppable. That's because of Mike Shanahan. There is nothing stale about it.


I get your point Garcia one thing I must point out is when someone defends him always mentions the offensive. I think Shanny's weakness is finding talent on D. Good teams don't go 3-7 at home. We need alot more talent here.

Actually if Denver really bolsters 5-9 next year we should see improvement in 08. I'm not sure how much Shanny thinks we need to bolster 5-9.

defenseman
10-30-2007, 01:08 PM
are we gonna have a shanahan discussion after every loss this season?

Good question. I can find very little to credit him with this year. We could probably talk about his "calls" after every game. Which, if I'm not mistaken, he has been a topic after nearly all games. Alot of talking in circles at his press conferences also, same old stale answers. They are as boring as they come is what it comes down to. All the harder to endure considering the season record and quality of play presently being displayed by the players and coaching staff. In any case, the fan base appears to be pondering his future in denver, at least on a whim. Maybe it's time he look in the mirror and figure out what rudder order is needed to right the ship. Right now, they are headed for the rocks.....and will be scuttled in short order.........dman

400HZ
10-30-2007, 01:30 PM
I heard that Marty Schottenheimer was available.

broncofan7
10-30-2007, 01:44 PM
I'll bet you $1,000 we have a better record than 6-10.

deal

loborugger
10-30-2007, 01:44 PM
Good question. I can find very little to credit him with this year.

Coming into the bye week after the debacle with SD, if I had told most of the OMane that our next 2 games would be a victory and a loss in OT, they would cried foul and called me a Homer.

Since the bye week, his team has only improved on ST, defense and offense. We have scored more TDs than FGs. Our basically rookie QB continues to mature. We competed with 2 of the better teams in the NFL without our best Olineman, our best offensive player and in the case of Pitt, without our best player on D. And I dont think Champ was %100 last night either.

Our almost rookie D line is seeing plenty of playing time because they are learning and being effective. Our receivers are some of the best in the league. Our patch work O line continues to play fairly well. Even the LBs have gotten better.

There are some issues, but to say that he deserves no credit this year is just shortsighted, IMHO.

Broncomutt
10-30-2007, 01:45 PM
Aweful building this team.

Do people realize that in last night's game 1 guy....1 starter was a starter 365 days ago on offense?

We've had complete utter roster turnover from a starter perspective except for about 8 guys. Since this is the ultimate team game...that's a huge blow...and we're still competative.

Bottom line...if the players execute the plays on the field they are unstoppable. That's because of Mike Shanahan. There is nothing stale about it.

I remember Mike Tirico stating last night about how Shanny always wants to win. He's constantly bringing in new players trying to go all the way. Said it as if it were a compliment.

All he has done is destroy continuity each year, whiffing on one big signing after another. Searching for the "problem child" he can reform and always having it blow up in his face. We aren't rebuilding, we are constantly reloading, and Shanny keeps using blanks.

Are we gonna have this conversation about Shanny after each loss? Yeah, as long as we continue to get punked at home, which used to be our refuge. As long as the team continues to embarass itself. As long as we are, in Kornhole's words, "the worst defense on Earth".

Weak offense, and he's supposed to be the offensive "Mastermind.

Even weaker defense, how many DC's has he burned through??

The buck stops somewhere, it stops with Shanny.

loborugger
10-30-2007, 01:46 PM
I despise that Rat but he calls a helluva game most of the time, as much as he makes me sick to my stomach I have to admit that much.

I think he is overachieving with the talent he has actually... most coaches would be 1-6 with the games you have played this year and I think the edge has been The Rat's gameplan

Even the Raider fan gets it.

Garcia Bronco
10-30-2007, 01:58 PM
I remember Mike Tirico stating last night about how Shanny always wants to win. He's constantly bringing in new players trying to go all the way. Said it as if it were a compliment.

All he has done is destroy continuity each year, whiffing on one big signing after another. Searching for the "problem child" he can reform and always having it blow up in his face. We aren't rebuilding, we are constantly reloading, and Shanny keeps using blanks.

Are we gonna have this conversation about Shanny after each loss? Yeah, as long as we continue to get punked at home, which used to be our refuge. As long as the team continues to embarass itself. As long as we are, in Kornhole's words, "the worst defense on Earth".

Weak offense, and he's supposed to be the offensive "Mastermind.

Even weaker defense, how many DC's has he burned through??

The buck stops somewhere, it stops with Shanny.

I agree with some of what you are saying. Consistant turnover is a killer in any system, but the kind of turnover we've had to happened outside of the control of any coach. Sounds like you need to go pull for another team then if you are that unhappy and don't see all the positives. Most of the other fans here realize this.

Garcia Bronco
10-30-2007, 01:59 PM
Case and point on Mike Shanahan. He made Jake Plummer a winner. Jake frickin Plummer. Come on

Drek
10-30-2007, 02:07 PM
I remember Mike Tirico stating last night about how Shanny always wants to win. He's constantly bringing in new players trying to go all the way. Said it as if it were a compliment.

All he has done is destroy continuity each year, whiffing on one big signing after another. Searching for the "problem child" he can reform and always having it blow up in his face. We aren't rebuilding, we are constantly reloading, and Shanny keeps using blanks.
We wouldn't have nearly the roster turnover if we hadn't lost our #1 and #2 WRs, our starting C and LG, and even still that "one player left from this time last year" comment has a pretty big asterisk attached when you consider that that one guy was only playing because Lepsis was hurt. We went into this season with the intention of having three of our five opening day 2006 starters back on the OL, the same starting QB who ended the season last year, #1 and #2 WRs who were our #1 and #3 by the end of last season, and a #2 TE who was our #2 TE last year as well. The only intentional turnover was at RG, RT, HB, and #1 TE. I don't see how anyone who watched the '06 team could fault overhauling those positions.

As for the "problem child" Shanahan is always looking to reform, I don't see the problem. Henry had been clean for several years and was almost out of the league substance abuse policy before popping again, that was a marginal risk and its one we protected ourselves from in his contract. No harm no foul on that one. Marshall has had a few off the field incidences but he didn't have a bad rap coming out of college and he's a young kid with exceptional talent. He hasn't done anything significantly detrimental to his pro career at this point and if he grows up a little never will. Same with Jarvis Moss and Marcus Thomas.

The "problem children" were all great value acquisitions, guys worth taking a chance on for their respective prices.


Are we gonna have this conversation about Shanny after each loss? Yeah, as long as we continue to get punked at home, which used to be our refuge. As long as the team continues to embarass itself. As long as we are, in Kornhole's words, "the worst defense on Earth".
It might be a refuge again if all the ****ty fans would stop selling tickets to away team groupies. Two straight home games where you had to wonder if the Broncos were really playing at home.

Weak offense, and he's supposed to be the offensive "Mastermind.
Weak offensive execution is more like it. The coaches called a good game offensively, the players just didn't get it done. Jay didn't throw accurately all four quarters and the line played horrible fundamental football.

Even weaker defense, how many DC's has he burned through??
About 5? And every one of them either move on of their own choosing (Rhodes) or outlived their usefulness (Robinson, Coyer). They stopped getting the job done. Expecting us to transition overnight is spoiled brat fan at its finest. The defense is getting the overhaul it's needed since '98, but that overhaul isn't going to be pleasant as a fan to watch.

The buck stops somewhere, it stops with Shanny.
And there isn't anyone better in the league at benig the "buck stops here" guy. For showed us early on that he can take a good nucleus of players and turn it into a champion and that he can keep a championship squad motivated and hungry the next season. He then spent about a decade showing us that he can keep this a winning organization. When he wants to take the big risks and try to put together that nucleus of talent again I don't see why we'd question his ability to do so. He's done everything else we've asked of him.

The fact is, if we fired Shanahan there wouldn't be a single available coach who could come close to filling his shoes while a minimum of a dozen NFL franchises would immediately put in calls to his agent to talk dollar figures.

loborugger
10-30-2007, 02:09 PM
Case and point on Mike Shanahan. He made Jake Plummer a winner. Jake frickin Plummer. Come on

Well, you can look at Jake.

Or you can look at SOB.

How about Lelie... is he even in the league anymore?

Or there is Reub Droughns - I think he is a 3rd stringer in NY now.

Or how about some of our other 1000 yd rushers... Tatum Bell?

Olandis Gary, anyone?

I have said it before, but I will repeat it, too. I also believe Shanny has gotten more outta Champ than the Skins did and got more outta Portis before he left than the Skins have.

And the final question that should be asked of all the Shanahan haters. If not Mike, than who?

Circle Orange
10-30-2007, 02:10 PM
I agree with you..He needs to go..

We need to hire bill cowher.

No he will coach the Skins after we run out the creaking, frightened-to-do -anything-that-will-win Joe Gibbs. Besides, Cowher would look good in burgundy and gold. Orange isn't his color.

Maximus
10-30-2007, 02:10 PM
We are very lucky to have Mike Shanahan, and I want him to relax and stay put.

We're lucky that Rat Bowlen is stupid enough to settle for mediocrity... Thanks Rat

Garcia Bronco
10-30-2007, 02:12 PM
We're lucky that Rat Bowlen is stupid enough to settle for mediocrity... Thanks Rat

I know you are trying to ratle the saber...but really...LMAO

Maximus
10-30-2007, 02:51 PM
The most outrageous post on this thread compared shanarat to dungy and claimed that dungy is only winning because of manning. The core of the donk fans delusion with the rat lies within that statement.

1. Tony Dungy built the Bucs into a winner but never too them over the top because he was not an offensive coach at the time. Proof of this is obvious because Gruden is an offensive minded coach found instant success.

2. Shanarat took over a team with Elway much like dungy took over a team with manning and they both had the same result. Elway retired... Shanarat never recovered so, the comparison is valid in that it proves shanarat is mediocre and has found his success with a dominant QB. You can win double digits all the time, but you will not win a SB again with him unless you find that magical QB to put him over the top. I know most here want to say cutler has only 12 games under his belt. I'm here to tell you cutler will never reach that status. The only resembalance is the arm strength.

3. The other misconception is that shanarat is some great offensive mind. The results are plain and obvious to me. He designs a good game plan to keep the donks competitive during every game. However, he is not good with in game x's and o's. Kubiak was the man behind all of that. Shanarat and the fans scapegoated Kubiak out of town and now you're suffering the effects of Kubiak leaving.

4. Everyone gives shanahan credit for making Plummer a winning QB. I give credit to Kubiak for calling plays that highlighted Plummers greatest strenghts. If you criticize kubiak for blowing games then you must give credit for his successes. You can't pass it off to the head coach who doesn't call plays.

Most of you mule fans waffle between giving credit to ratboy when things are going right and giving the blame to the OC or DC when things are going wrong.

Maximus
10-30-2007, 02:57 PM
I know you are trying to ratle the saber...but really...LMAO


Most times you would be correct. This time your wrong Garcia. Rat Bowlen is part of the problem. I said it before and I'll say it again. No employer should make the mistake of saying someone is untouchable or giving him total job security. That is a big mistake!

Broncomutt
10-30-2007, 03:25 PM
I agree with some of what you are saying. Consistant turnover is a killer in any system, but the kind of turnover we've had to happened outside of the control of any coach. Sounds like you need to go pull for another team then if you are that unhappy and don't see all the positives. Most of the other fans here realize this.

I respect the opinions of others who still have faith in Shanny. Heck, this was just the last straw for me, something that's been building up, but I have held faith in him for awhile. My faith stops now.

As for finding a new team, it doesn't work that way. If I could choose a new team like that, i wouldn't give a damn about the way Shanny is grinding this team into mediocrity. But then, I suppose you felt all those people 12 years ago with WADE MUST GO signs wern't true fans either and needed to move on.

Maybe you can switch alliances easily, but my anger and frustration stems from a love for this team. Not shipping out until the faces change.

Shanny WAS a great coach. With the right talent, I have no doubt he could go somewhere else (like San Diego) and knock out 2 more SB rings. But he'll do it with talent largely built by others. Eventually his personnel decisions will grind them down as well.

For a fact, I'd like to see Shanny go and take Sundquist with him.

Broncomutt
10-30-2007, 03:35 PM
And Drek, the "problem child" I am talking about refer to Carter, Clarett, Gardener, Brown, Henry and now Rice. Not all "problems" are disciplinary. Some are just guys who can't stay healthy. He threw big contracts at all those guys (sans Clarett) and they produced NOTHING!

As for Marshall and Thomas, I truly hope they don't have issues, but time will tell. Marshall already has a DUI...could just be the start.

I'll be perfectly honest with you. As my avatar sig states, I want some thugs on this team. Mean ass tough nose mother f#ckers who will step on your neck. I don't care about character anymore. I'm tired of being "the team with integrity". As long as the dudes can ball.

The aforementioned players could not...at least not in a Broncos jersey.

Garcia Bronco
10-30-2007, 03:50 PM
Most times you would be correct. This time your wrong Garcia. Rat Bowlen is part of the problem. I said it before and I'll say it again. No employer should make the mistake of saying someone is untouchable or giving him total job security. That is a big mistake!

LMAO.....Mike Shanahan is the coach for the Broncos. All of our success past and present is in large part due to Mike Shanahan. If I were a Raider Fan I would want him gone too.

Garcia Bronco
10-30-2007, 03:54 PM
I respect the opinions of others who still have faith in Shanny. Heck, this was just the last straw for me, something that's been building up, but I have held faith in him for awhile. My faith stops now.

As for finding a new team, it doesn't work that way. If I could choose a new team like that, i wouldn't give a damn about the way Shanny is grinding this team into mediocrity. But then, I suppose you felt all those people 12 years ago with WADE MUST GO signs wern't true fans either and needed to move on.

Maybe you can switch alliances easily, but my anger and frustration stems from a love for this team. Not shipping out until the faces change.

Shanny WAS a great coach. With the right talent, I have no doubt he could go somewhere else (like San Diego) and knock out 2 more SB rings. But he'll do it with talent largely built by others. Eventually his personnel decisions will grind them down as well.

For a fact, I'd like to see Shanny go and take Sundquist with him.

My point about that was...it's going to be like this for this season and maybe next...bottom line for a while. I echo your frustration, but it's on the players. Mike Shanahan has proven he can accomplish a Super Bowl managing at a high level both as a head coach and OC. Do you realize how many Super Bowls he coached in through 1998? 6 Super Bowls. Until that point it was roughly 1/6th of all Super Bowls played and almost 25 percent of all Super Bowls since he's een employed in the NFL. He knows what it takes. Our young players....not-so-much

kamakazi_kal
10-30-2007, 03:56 PM
I'm not quite ready to panic yet....... this team is in contention every single season, I think we are a bit spoiled. Every team must go down to go back up.

Maximus
10-30-2007, 04:02 PM
LMAO.....Mike Shanahan is the coach for the Broncos. All of our success past and present is in large part due to Mike Shanahan. If I were a Raider Fan I would want him gone too.

I DON'T WANT HIM GONE I WANT HIM TO STAY! However, I will always call him out as the problem when it's the truth... Long Live the Rat!

He's just like Joe Paterno... Will never get to the promised land again!

Mountain Bronco
10-30-2007, 04:03 PM
Look at the penalties and poor game management this year. Far to many, Shanny is loosing the team. The whole we play to win SB bs is tired when you don't have the talent, because you draft so poorly. No, Shanny didn't force the pipe in Henry's mouth, but he knew the guy has major issues (not like Marcus Thomas who screwed up once) Henry is a lowlife looser who would be homeless or in jail if not for the NFL. I am ashamed he is on our team. How many other children does this looser have that he doesn't even know about. Shanny had a nice run, but he should be shown the door.

defenseman
10-30-2007, 04:05 PM
I'm not quite ready to panic yet....... this team is in contention every single season, I think we are a bit spoiled. Every team must go down to go back up.

Sine wave performance is "not allowed" according to the edicts of shanahan. Unless he's been giving us lip service over the past ten years or so..dman

Broncomutt
10-30-2007, 04:07 PM
My point about that was...it's going to be like this for this season and maybe next...bottom line for a while. I echo your frustration, but it's on the players. Mike Shanahan has proven he can accomplish a Super Bowl managing at a high level both as a head coach and OC. Do you realize how many Super Bowls he coached in through 1998? 6 Super Bowls. Until that point it was roughly 1/6th of all Super Bowls played and almost 25 percent of all Super Bowls since he's een employed in the NFL. He knows what it takes. Our young players....not-so-much

I understand your PoV and respectfully agree to disagree. I did mention thathe WAS a great coach for us and could still be a great coach for someone else. I am not blind to his past accomplishments.

But I do believe that a coach can grow stale and complacent in one place sometimes. Shula, Landry, Knoll....quite a few superbowls there as well. Doesn't mean they would be great coaches if they were still with their respective teams today. All moved on because they just didn't have it anymore.

Sometimes you gotta cut ties with past greatness and move in a new direction. I understand your point, but I think we are heading towards a mediocrity era lasting more than just a few years.

We'll see how it plays out.....

Maximus
10-30-2007, 04:08 PM
Look at the penalties and poor game management this year. Far to many, Shanny is loosing the team. The whole we play to win SB bs is tired when you don't have the talent, because you draft so poorly. No, Shanny didn't force the pipe in Henry's mouth, but he knew the guy has major issues (not like Marcus Thomas who screwed up once) Henry is a lowlife looser who would be homeless or in jail if not for the NFL. I am ashamed he is on our team. How many other children does this looser have that he doesn't even know about. Shanny had a nice run, but he should be shown the door.


Henry having children is irrelevant. He's paying for them and as far as we know he's a good father. He could have 40 kids as long as he takes care of them and performs on the field... Lesson over.

Tom H.
10-30-2007, 04:45 PM
No man. The Broncos need Shanny. Without him Denver would be on the long road home. Picking up stray coaches along the way, catch a few seasons of football hepatitis and end up with Wade Phillips back in the saddle. Sure there might be some gems out there, but where?

Garcia Bronco
10-30-2007, 04:47 PM
I understand your PoV and respectfully agree to disagree. I did mention thathe WAS a great coach for us and could still be a great coach for someone else. I am not blind to his past accomplishments.

But I do believe that a coach can grow stale and complacent in one place sometimes. Shula, Landry, Knoll....quite a few superbowls there as well. Doesn't mean they would be great coaches if they were still with their respective teams today. All moved on because they just didn't have it anymore.

Sometimes you gotta cut ties with past greatness and move in a new direction. I understand your point, but I think we are heading towards a mediocrity era lasting more than just a few years.

We'll see how it plays out.....

Shanahan is anything but complacent. The whole organization is anything but complacent. You are right...there are times to thin the roster and cut ties....this is not one of those times.

Maximus
10-30-2007, 04:53 PM
Shanahan is anything but complacent. The whole organization is anything but complacent. You are right...there are times to thin the roster and cut ties....this is not one of those times.

Fear is like HBP... a silent killer. If you don't take your medication, you will eventually die from complications!

TheDave
10-30-2007, 05:06 PM
http://members.roadfly.org/viv/AwJeezNotThisSheetAgain1.jpg

broncswin
10-30-2007, 05:11 PM
I DON'T WANT HIM GONE I WANT HIM TO STAY! However, I will always call him out as the problem when it's the truth... Long Live the Rat!

He's just like Joe Paterno... Will never get to the promised land again!

Funny to hear that from a Faid fan, I guess you guys have gotten used to and actually like the fact that you lose to the broncos on a consistent basis. By the way you should compare owners, when slimy al has completely run your organization into the ground!!

LESSON OVER!!:thumbs: :~ohyah!: ;)

Maximus
10-30-2007, 05:13 PM
Funny to hear that from a Faid fan, I guess you guys have gotten used to and actually like the fact that you lose to the broncos on a consistent basis. By the way you should compare owners, when slimy al has completely run your organization into the ground!!

LESSON OVER!!:thumbs: :~ohyah!: ;)

Lame attempt to divert the conversation...

Join Date 2007 automatic ignore!

broncswin
10-30-2007, 05:18 PM
Lame attempt to divert the conversation...

Join Date 2007 automatic ignore!

Yeah I would expect him to cower down with his ignore button!! That is why they call him:MAXI-PUSS!!

I will atleast give credit to the other rivals who come in here and actually put up a fight, Puss is like the fat kid that hides behind his teacher so he doesn't get hurt. He should be the face of the RAIDERS, I love it.:strong: :strong:

TDmvp
10-30-2007, 06:11 PM
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=1744186#post1744186


Yup that was a really bad loss ... By a team that didn't look ready to play .
One team looked like it was playing for its season being 1-3 and the other looked like they was on cruise control and things didn't matter to them ... and thats putting it lightly ...

But to see people spout the most uneducated hate filled rants about stuff is just lame , wish people get hurt , wanting rid of Mike , and more ...

I have been a fan of this team 365 days a year for 22 years or so , even tho i have lived my whole life in Cincinnati , but it was fate for me to be a Broncs fan.
And even tho "my" team was always better then my local friends team "bungals" i still lived thru 10+ of John will never get it done "while their bungals was a non factor" and i never hated the Bengals i just never liked Kenny Anderson or Boomer as a child and they was never very good , but i always hoped if Denver couldnt win it all let the Bengals have one ...

all that being said ... to me ... Many "not all" of you sound so spoiled and undeserving of such a fine classy organization ... there is 25 other teams that would kill to have this teams record over the last 25 years , and to see how most of you act comes off either spoiled , classless , or stupid ...

Its perfectly fine to be P'ed off about a heartless performance on the field ...
its another to show yourself to be nothing but a trashy individual who id be fine with you not being a fan of my team , who shouldn't even watch sports . if something not going your way gets you that fired up ... i bet alot of you dont play well with others , or whine if you lose a game vs friends all those great traits... I'd switch to something a little less competitive

might i suggest something with no winners or losers , and nobody gets hurt ...
Id hate to see what you all would do if you was cubs fans ...


what a douche of a post .... we really need a 90iq rule before you post this $hit

ROYC75
10-30-2007, 08:41 PM
I swear to God over 75% of the members here have ADD.


This is the post of the year !LOL

Dagmar
10-30-2007, 09:02 PM
This thread is ****ing stupid.

wolf754life
10-30-2007, 10:08 PM
stupid, how stupid when we lose to the lions next week?
how stupid when we finish the yr with a middle draft pick?
how stupid? like qb draw on the 5 last night for the game?
stupid like travis henry, dre bly, paying dan graham 15 million?
stupid like starting Simeon the cripple over 1st rounder moss?
do i need to keep goinG?

Garcia Bronco
10-30-2007, 11:11 PM
stupid, how stupid when we lose to the lions next week?
how stupid when we finish the yr with a middle draft pick?
how stupid? like qb draw on the 5 last night for the game?
stupid like travis henry, dre bly, paying dan graham 15 million?
stupid like starting Simeon the cripple over 1st rounder moss?
do i need to keep goinG?

Ahh yeah..ahh keep going...as in...head for the mountains.

Bronx33
10-30-2007, 11:16 PM
Everybody is entitled to their opinions but so iam i..

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:4G3Rj4_OZBHZPM:www.wcel.org/4976/20/gascan.gif

Burn this thread to the ground

whatsgolden
10-30-2007, 11:18 PM
[QUOTE=wolf754life;1739636]
Ed Reed and Steven Jackson could have BOTH been on this roster now!

QUOTE]

Don't forget.. We could have had Tom Brady, too! Or, we could have had Antonio Gates. Shannahan should have been fired for not drafting them, too! Also, he wasn't responsible for trading for Champ Bailey, or signing John Lynch or trading for Javon Walker. Shanny must go! Just look back at the past 10 drafts, if we would have drafted right, we'd have won at least 5 more super bowls by now.

Honestly, though, how long would it take Mike Shannahan to get a job if we fired him? Maybe a month? Maybe? We all seem to forget that he drafted Al Wilson, Darrent Williams, Jay Cutler, Mike Anderson, Ben Hamilton and Elvis. Quit whining. We've gone 10+ years without a top 10 draft pick, something very few, if not no other team in the league can claim. Who's responsible for that consistency? Mike freaking Martz can't claim that, in fact it took him less than 5 years to ruin the team that Vermeil built.

How long did it take Denver to win their first Super Bowl? 40+ years?

Have some patience people. He's a consistent winner. Does he have his problems? Absolutely, but he's still one of the best there is right now...possibly ever.

Edit: apparently, I don't know how to quote somebody.

Broncoman13
10-30-2007, 11:18 PM
Ahh yeah..ahh keep going...as in...head for the mountains.

HELL YEAH! Shanny's lost a bit of his mojo, I won't dispute that. However, he's here as long as he wants to be here. I choose to support him knowing that there isn't a better option in the league!

Rigs11
10-30-2007, 11:18 PM
Meh, Ive felt like this for awhile now. Seriously how many qb's does shanny need to go through before we find success? Has anyone thought that maybe we won those 2 superbowls because we had elway and TD?It's not freaking rocket science people. His playcalling stinks. Time for a change.

Rock Chalk
10-31-2007, 08:38 AM
We are 10 yrs out from the superbowls, this team has crumbled talent wise to its current state, a 6 and 10 team, with brittle veterans and no depth at key positions. Shannahan has lost his touch, at least here in Denver, and the players no longer respond to his leadership.

Its simply time for him to go, although I am sure pat bowlen has a million excuses for him. Think about it, take off your homer glasses and look at whats actually going on at dove valley. His biggest problem is personnel. Do these names mean anything, Ashlie Lelie, George Foster, DJ Williams, Paul Tovesi, Darius Watts, Marcus Nash, Tatum Bell, the list goes on and on, over the last 10 yrs no team has drafted worse than we have, and it shows on our roster. (Especially on Defense), the last couple years have been better and is saving our Offense with marshall, cutler. Paying Gerrard Warren over Trevor Pryce was a huge mistake....

Ed Reed and Steven Jackson could have BOTH been on this roster now!

Free agent wise where do we start, for every good signing we get burned by several others. Dale Carter, Darryl Gardner, now Travis Henry??? Shannahan has sold his soul and taken unnecessary risks on veterans and overpaid mightily, Dre Bly is the next in line to fail. Trading Gerrard Warren was a mistake as well, after Warren had restructured his contract several times, now we have NO run D.

Coaching, ever since kubiak left his offensive playcalling has been atrocious, especially in the redzone, and his coaching staffs have done terrible. How many D coordinators are we going to go through? How many special teams coaches? Time and Time again he gets a free pass on these critical decisions.

Shannahan is still a great coach, but not here, not now, not in Denver anymore, its time for him to go and time for a new voice and a new coaching staff with fresh ideas and fresh motivation!

You are an idiot. I dont know how else to put it other than your mental retardation is apparently spreading to others.

defenseman
10-31-2007, 08:58 AM
Ahh yeah..ahh keep going...as in...head for the mountains.

GB, are we Poopooing someone's opinion because it's obviously incorrect? I would think that, if one were to interview Joe Torre today he would support every single one of the folks here who believe Shanahan has grown stale and needs to move on. In short, NO ONE is indispensible. No one. Coaching abilities is one thing, the part of the equation that's often forgotten is, what have you done for me lately. Torre hasn't done squat with the yankees for a while now, and what is Steinbrenners stated goal every year? Win the world series. What's shanahan's ( and he does believe it I'm sure), win the superbowl. consistently falling short over a reasonably long period of time can put your job in jeapordy is what it comes down to, and it should I might add. No matter how good your intentions and your potential for success. I just cannot get upset with folks that want shanahan to hit the road. Their opinion, quite honestly, is supported enough to at least debate as a possible option. Right now, I prefer he stay, however, Bowlen has made the mistake of telling him he stays as long as he wants to. I'd never give any coach that kind of endorsement. Not even shanahan. Consistent results are required, attaining stated goals, at least sporatically, is a must...he hasn't got the job done in ten years or so. It may be time to move on..........dman

defenseman
10-31-2007, 09:01 AM
You are an idiot. I dont know how else to put it other than your mental retardation is apparently spreading to others.

So, no one's opinion is valid but yours? So, Alec, when's the next book burning? I'm sure your list of books that should be deemed unfit for consumption is long and distinguished. Let me know the date and time, I'll bring the firehose..dman

Garcia Bronco
10-31-2007, 10:15 AM
Yeah...I hear what you are saying Dman, but Mike Shanahan is the best pure and simple. You could go get any other coach...and I mean any coach....and we still might not ever win another Super Bowl. So for me....we can lose with Mike Shanahan, but we can't win without him. This whole fire someone everytime we lose a game **** is getting old. And Mike Shanahan derserves more respect from the faithful.

Broncomutt
10-31-2007, 10:23 AM
I guess IMO it boils down to one thing, then Ill let this go, as I've said my piece and don't wish to harp on it anymore.

If you had a crystal ball that could show you the next 5 years of the Denver Broncos. And if you saw 3 losing seasons and 2 WC playoff "1 and done" appearences, would you still want Mike as your coach?

To some, the sheer excitement of a winning season and January football is enough. To others anything shy of hoisting Lombardi is a failure. To me, I miss the days when people were scared to enter Mile High. I miss the days when my friends would say "Damn, were playing the Broncos this weekend, we're screwed!" I'd accept Mike if I saw that trend coming.

But Shanny has always fielded teams with soft defenses. I understand, he's an offensive guy. But he no longer has the offensive weapons he did 10 years ago. Hence, we will always be soft. I just can't have faith in a guy who fields a soft team each week. Doesn't mean I don't love or won't cheer for Denver, but I see them for what they are, a soft team. That culpability lies ultimately with Shanny.

Garcia Bronco
10-31-2007, 10:32 AM
I guess IMO it boils down to one thing, then Ill let this go, as I've said my piece and don't wish to harp on it anymore.

If you had a crystal ball that could show you the next 5 years of the Denver Broncos. And if you saw 3 losing seasons and 2 WC playoff "1 and done" appearences, would you still want Mike as your coach?

To some, the sheer excitement of a winning season and January football is enough. To others anything shy of hoisting Lombardi is a failure. To me, I miss the days when people were scared to enter Mile High. I miss the days when my friends would say "Damn, were playing the Broncos this weekend, we're screwed!" I'd accept Mike if I saw that trend coming.

But Shanny has always fielded teams with soft defenses. I understand, he's an offensive guy. But he no longer has the offensive weapons he did 10 years ago. Hence, we will always be soft. I just can't have faith in a guy who fields a soft team each week. Doesn't mean I don't love or won't cheer for Denver, but I see them for what they are, a soft team. That culpability lies ultimately with Shanny.


Our team isn't soft. We just have a bunch of young guys learning how to do it. Some better than others.

bowtown
10-31-2007, 10:38 AM
I would think that, if one were to interview Joe Torre today he would support every single one of the folks here who believe Shanahan has grown stale and needs to move on.

:rofl: What are you even talking about?

BroncoSoja
10-31-2007, 10:41 AM
I love all the fact that the only arguements that all the mental midget Shanny supporters can post are comments like "You are a idiot" or "This post is ******* stupid".

LOL its comical.



P.S
Read my sig.

theAPAOps5
10-31-2007, 10:43 AM
Don't argue with Soja he played football for S.E.L.S.U. for a whole offseason. He knows stuff guys.

Garcia Bronco
10-31-2007, 10:46 AM
I love all the fact that the only arguements that all the mental midget Shanny supporters can post are comments like "You are a idiot" or "This post is ******* stupid".



I didn't do that.
There is no one better that we can get. If there is someone better I'll listen, but until then...I think you "Shanahan Haters" need to go find another team. You either pull for the team or you don't. There is no middle ground.

Rock Chalk
10-31-2007, 10:48 AM
I love all the fact that the only arguements that all the mental midget Shanny supporters can post are comments like "You are a idiot" or "This post is ******* stupid".

LOL its comical.



P.S
Read my sig.

I love the fact that you cant even come up with your own insults, you have to steal the insults from the people you are insulting.

How pathetic is that?

Who would you replace Shanny with cock munch? No, it doesnt matter who you would replace him with.

bowtown
10-31-2007, 10:48 AM
I love all the fact that the only arguements that all the mental midget Shanny supporters can post are comments like "You are a idiot" or "This post is ******* stupid".

LOL its comical.



P.S
Read my sig.

And I love how you gloss over facts for every single one of your arguments, just as you have glossed over the other 13 pages of very indepth arguments from "Shanny supporters" in this thread.

HorseHead
10-31-2007, 10:53 AM
Flip this a little...

I can almost see why Shanny called a draw...the kid scores(providing the blocking was there)...the place woulda gone ape sh-t..National TV..take the shine outta Favre's night..about 6 seconds left after the TD..game over

I see alot of people want Mike's head but I see no one suggesting possible canidates...why?

bowtown
10-31-2007, 10:57 AM
Flip this a little...

I can almost see why Shanny called a draw...the kid scores(providing the blocking was there)...the place woulda gone ape sh-t..National TV..take the shine outta Favre's night..about 6 seconds left after the TD..game over

I see alot of people want Mike's head but I see no one suggesting possible canidates...why?

Well to be fair, the name Cower has been thrown around. The general feeling is that with his offensive prowess, he would really come in and "open up the passing game." :kiddingme

Garcia Bronco
10-31-2007, 11:31 AM
Flip this a little...

I can almost see why Shanny called a draw...the kid scores(providing the blocking was there)...the place woulda gone ape sh-t..National TV..take the shine outta Favre's night..about 6 seconds left after the TD..game over

I see alot of people want Mike's head but I see no one suggesting possible canidates...why?

becuase there isn't anyone better. Bill Cowher isn't even an option.

Rigs11
10-31-2007, 11:34 AM
I didn't do that.
There is no one better that we can get. If there is someone better I'll listen, but until then...I think you "Shanahan Haters" need to go find another team. You either pull for the team or you don't. There is no middle ground.

Ahh yes much like your political views you're either with us or against us.LOL

Natedogg
10-31-2007, 11:34 AM
Bill Cower has had way more mediorcer seasons than shanny (and played in a weaker division). Some fking people.

HorseHead
10-31-2007, 11:50 AM
there is no way in hell the Chin is an improvement over Shanny...even if we go 6-10...

Garcia Bronco
10-31-2007, 12:03 PM
Ahh yes much like your political views you're either with us or against us.LOL

It's the truth. You are either for the Broncos and everything that it encompasses...or you don't.

atomicbloke
10-31-2007, 01:41 PM
It's the truth. You are either for the Broncos and everything that it encompasses...or you don't.

When did he say he is against the Broncos?

He just said he is against Shanahan.

Why is this so hard to comprehend?

TDmvp
10-31-2007, 01:43 PM
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Garcia Bronco
10-31-2007, 01:59 PM
When did he say he is against the Broncos?

He just said he is against Shanahan.

Why is this so hard to comprehend?

Same difference. You either believe in the team..all aspects...or you don't. I believe in Mike Shanahan and most other people do too. If you follow the conclusion out replacing Mike Shanahan would set us back another 3-5 years.

NFLBRONCO
10-31-2007, 02:12 PM
Shanny's team right now is in a phase that exposes his biggest weaknesses.

His top 2 weaknesses

1. Finding good D talent on constant basis
2. Not enough leadership on the field because Shanny is no motivator.

This is why we have slipped this year besides all the new faces.

TheReverend
10-31-2007, 02:23 PM
The most outrageous post on this thread compared shanarat to dungy and claimed that dungy is only winning because of manning. The core of the donk fans delusion with the rat lies within that statement.

1. Tony Dungy built the Bucs into a winner but never too them over the top because he was not an offensive coach at the time. Proof of this is obvious because Gruden is an offensive minded coach found instant success.

2. Shanarat took over a team with Elway much like dungy took over a team with manning and they both had the same result. Elway retired... Shanarat never recovered so, the comparison is valid in that it proves shanarat is mediocre and has found his success with a dominant QB. You can win double digits all the time, but you will not win a SB again with him unless you find that magical QB to put him over the top. I know most here want to say cutler has only 12 games under his belt. I'm here to tell you cutler will never reach that status. The only resembalance is the arm strength.

3. The other misconception is that shanarat is some great offensive mind. The results are plain and obvious to me. He designs a good game plan to keep the donks competitive during every game. However, he is not good with in game x's and o's. Kubiak was the man behind all of that. Shanarat and the fans scapegoated Kubiak out of town and now you're suffering the effects of Kubiak leaving.

4. Everyone gives shanahan credit for making Plummer a winning QB. I give credit to Kubiak for calling plays that highlighted Plummers greatest strenghts. If you criticize kubiak for blowing games then you must give credit for his successes. You can't pass it off to the head coach who doesn't call plays.

Most of you mule fans waffle between giving credit to ratboy when things are going right and giving the blame to the OC or DC when things are going wrong.


This is probably the worst post I've ever read...

1&2. are spent trying to disparage the comparison of Shannahan and Dungy, but you end up supporting it...

3. After hanging up 31 points on the best defense in the NFL with an injury plagued/rookie offense just 1 week ago? Are you serious?

4. Since when did Mike not call the plays?

And finally, Kubiak was scapegoated out of town? Hilarious!
... Or did he receive a glowing recommendation after years of great success and permission to interview with Houston and become an NFL head coach?

NFLBRONCO
10-31-2007, 02:32 PM
NE and Colts would be nothing without Brady or Manning someday the reality of it will hit home.

TheReverend
10-31-2007, 02:33 PM
We are 10 yrs out from the superbowls, this team has crumbled talent wise to its current state, a 6 and 10 team, with brittle veterans and no depth at key positions. Shannahan has lost his touch, at least here in Denver, and the players no longer respond to his leadership.

Its simply time for him to go, although I am sure pat bowlen has a million excuses for him. Think about it, take off your homer glasses and look at whats actually going on at dove valley. His biggest problem is personnel. Do these names mean anything, Ashlie Lelie, George Foster, DJ Williams, Paul Tovesi, Darius Watts, Marcus Nash, Tatum Bell, the list goes on and on, over the last 10 yrs no team has drafted worse than we have, and it shows on our roster. (Especially on Defense), the last couple years have been better and is saving our Offense with marshall, cutler. Paying Gerrard Warren over Trevor Pryce was a huge mistake....

Ed Reed and Steven Jackson could have BOTH been on this roster now!

Free agent wise where do we start, for every good signing we get burned by several others. Dale Carter, Darryl Gardner, now Travis Henry??? Shannahan has sold his soul and taken unnecessary risks on veterans and overpaid mightily, Dre Bly is the next in line to fail. Trading Gerrard Warren was a mistake as well, after Warren had restructured his contract several times, now we have NO run D.

Coaching, ever since kubiak left his offensive playcalling has been atrocious, especially in the redzone, and his coaching staffs have done terrible. How many D coordinators are we going to go through? How many special teams coaches? Time and Time again he gets a free pass on these critical decisions.

Shannahan is still a great coach, but not here, not now, not in Denver anymore, its time for him to go and time for a new voice and a new coaching staff with fresh ideas and fresh motivation!


I'd like to change my mind... this is the worst post I've ever read.

Tatum Bell was a free pick. After fleecing the Redskins for Champ they threw in a 2nd rounder which became Tatum Bell, who also won several games for us with some lightning plays while he was here.

George Foster was parlayed into a pro-bowl corner (along with free pick Tatum Bell) in Dre Bly.

Ashley Lelie was a miss, but Shannahan corrected his mistake and got the right receiver a few years later.

The jury's still out on DJ, but why don't you bring up other picks?

Al Wilson, John Mobley, Clinton Portis, etc etc etc

And why don't you bring up that our O-line doesn't even have to be a day 1 priority because he's been IMMENSELY successful finding players late in the 2nd day or undrafted? Same with RBs more often than not.

You really are an idiot.

Mountain Bronco
10-31-2007, 02:36 PM
Henry having children is irrelevant, but 9 with 9 different mothers is not. He has been "ordered" by courts to pay for them which is not like paying because he wants to. If a court has to order you to pay for your kids you are a deadbeat. Lesson Over, what a joke.

Eldorado
10-31-2007, 02:58 PM
This thread is ****ing stupid.

Hear, hear!

Maximus
10-31-2007, 03:14 PM
This is probably the worst post I've ever read...

1&2. are spent trying to disparage the comparison of Shannahan and Dungy, but you end up supporting it...

3. After hanging up 31 points on the best defense in the NFL with an injury plagued/rookie offense just 1 week ago? Are you serious?

4. Since when did Mike not call the plays?

And finally, Kubiak was scapegoated out of town? Hilarious!
... Or did he receive a glowing recommendation after years of great success and permission to interview with Houston and become an NFL head coach?

You prove how dumb donk fans are. I said the argument was valid because it proves mediocrity. Meaning if Dungy is middle of the road so is the overgrown beaver. Shanacrap hasn't won diddley since elway and dungy didn't win until he got Manning.

Learn to read and comprehend.

PLOWHORSE
10-31-2007, 03:17 PM
What is really stupid, including this post, is that people still can't spell Shanahan correctly.

Circle Orange
10-31-2007, 03:37 PM
What is really stupid, including this post, is that people still can't spell Shanahan correctly.

Shayneehand. Kripes, eye kin spel betturn den dat. Leesewise, I got good iglish. :clown:

TheReverend
10-31-2007, 03:38 PM
You prove how dumb donk fans are. I said the argument was valid because it proves mediocrity. Meaning if Dungy is middle of the road so is the overgrown beaver. Shanacrap hasn't won diddley since elway and dungy didn't win until he got Manning.

Learn to read and comprehend.

Then name a "great" coach, would you?

TheReverend
10-31-2007, 03:50 PM
You prove how dumb donk fans are. I said the argument was valid because it proves mediocrity. Meaning if Dungy is middle of the road so is the overgrown beaver. Shanacrap hasn't won diddley since elway and dungy didn't win until he got Manning.

Learn to read and comprehend.

Personally, I'd call a coach great when he wins it all with that great QB. I'd call him greater if he does it again. I'd call him amazing if he can turn journeymen QBs into pro-bowlers and play-off QBs after his great QB retired. I'd call him great if he was molding a young QB that he drafted into far and away the best young QB in the league thats nailing over 70% on 3rd down.

But hey, that's just me.

defenseman
10-31-2007, 04:02 PM
Personally, I'd call a coach great when he wins it all with that great QB. I'd call him greater if he does it again. I'd call him amazing if he can turn journeymen QBs into pro-bowlers and play-off QBs after his great QB retired. I'd call him great if he was molding a young QB that he drafted into far and away the best young QB in the league thats nailing over 70% on 3rd down.

But hey, that's just me.

In other words, he can do no wrong and shouldn't be held to the same standard he holds his players too? Just asking.....dman

Garcia Bronco
10-31-2007, 04:02 PM
Personally, I'd call a coach great when he wins it all with that great QB. I'd call him greater if he does it again. I'd call him amazing if he can turn journeymen QBs into pro-bowlers and play-off QBs after his great QB retired. I'd call him great if he was molding a young QB that he drafted into far and away the best young QB in the league thats nailing over 70% on 3rd down.

But hey, that's just me.

QFT

Maximus
10-31-2007, 04:07 PM
Then name a "great" coach, would you?

Joe Gibbs ( Better than all of them )
Brian Billick ( Won a SB with no offense and no QB )
Jon Gruden ( Can coach both sides and knows talent )
Cheat-a-Check ( Can win with any talent level )

The rest are average at best! But Dungy would be #1 in that group!

Garcia Bronco
10-31-2007, 04:15 PM
Joe Gibbs ( Better than all of them )
Brian Billick ( Won a SB with no offense and no QB )
Jon Gruden ( Can coach both sides and knows talent )
Cheat-a-Check ( Can win with any talent level )

The rest are average at best! But Dungy would be #1 in that group!

LMAO...Shanahan trumps Gibbs, Billick, and he owns Gruden and Bill in head-to-head.

Northman
10-31-2007, 04:21 PM
Quoted by Maximus

I'm here to tell you cutler will never reach that status.


Just from curiosity just how do you come up to that conclusion with just 12 games? Not being an ass im just curious as too how you've come up with that conclusion already when the guy hasnt even gotten a full season under his belt.

Northman
10-31-2007, 04:27 PM
Joe Gibbs ( Better than all of them )
Brian Billick ( Won a SB with no offense and no QB )
Jon Gruden ( Can coach both sides and knows talent )
Cheat-a-Check ( Can win with any talent level )

The rest are average at best! But Dungy would be #1 in that group!


Brian Billick? LMAO!

Maximus
10-31-2007, 04:27 PM
LMAO...Shanahan trumps Gibbs, Billick, and he owns Gruden and Bill in head-to-head.

Shanacrap didn't trump Gibbs in 1988 I believe the final score was 42-10 and Gibbs won with Doug Williams! What's their head to head record Garcia....

If you want to base greatness on Head to Head records we might as well place Dungy head and shoulders above shanarat!

Maximus
10-31-2007, 04:29 PM
Brian Billick? LMAO!


Anyone who can win a SB with the inept Trent Dilfer is a great coach!

BroncoMan4ever
10-31-2007, 04:32 PM
get rid of Shnnahan and replace him with who?

every team goes through a bad stretch while they are getting young guys ready to play, and when your playing a rookie QB. Injury and the fact that this is a rebuilding year are what have tanked this team not Shannahan. Nowi will agree that QB keeper on the 4 on monday was horrible but Shannahan is easily 1 of the top 5 coaches in the league and he will have Denver back ready to compete as soon as next season.

Do u truly think that if Al was still here, Rod wasn't rehabbing and injury, Javon wasn't injured and had the team not had the horrible offseason it had that Shannahan would easily have this team competing.

I mean lose the injuries to the O-Line, have Rod's leadership and heart on the field on sundays, Javon not having any knee problems, and imagine the team not playing with a heavy heart over the loss of 2 of their friends and teammates a few adjustments on the D-Line and tell me that this team wouldn't be competing.

Injuries and bad circumstances are to blame this season not Shannahan

rbackfactory80
10-31-2007, 04:34 PM
Plain and simple Shanahan made a big mistake when he tried to build up the Defense. He just wasted time until now where he realizes this has to be a offense first team. Truth is if we kept building the offense instead of worrying about defense we would be a lot better now and the defense we would have that everyone would have complained about would not be any worse then what we have now. He realizes the only chance to win in todays NFL is to keep scoring. Even the best Defenses cant touch these high powered offenses. Many people here including myself though getting Bailey would really change the way Manning decapitates us. We are now on the right track and Shanahan will prove by next year when this team is a true contender, he is still the man for the job.

Northman
10-31-2007, 04:35 PM
Anyone who can win a SB with the inept Trent Dilfer is a great coach!


With that defense i could win a Super Bowl.

Peoples Champ
10-31-2007, 04:52 PM
there is 20 idiot coaches to every one shanahan, he is one of a kind, he is top five in the nfl and if you can find someone that is available that is better, i would like to hear your suggestion, i would only take bellicheck over shany and thats it, from what i hear belicheck is not available

TheReverend
10-31-2007, 04:56 PM
Shanacrap didn't trump Gibbs in 1988 I believe the final score was 42-10 and Gibbs won with Doug Williams! What's their head to head record Garcia....

If you want to base greatness on Head to Head records we might as well place Dungy head and shoulders above shanarat!

Because Shannahan was the Broncos head coach then...

Wow, you're an idiot.

Maximus
10-31-2007, 04:57 PM
get rid of Shnnahan and replace him with who?

every team goes through a bad stretch while they are getting young guys ready to play, and when your playing a rookie QB. Injury and the fact that this is a rebuilding year are what have tanked this team not Shannahan. Nowi will agree that QB keeper on the 4 on monday was horrible but Shannahan is easily 1 of the top 5 coaches in the league and he will have Denver back ready to compete as soon as next season.

Do u truly think that if Al was still here, Rod wasn't rehabbing and injury, Javon wasn't injured and had the team not had the horrible offseason it had that Shannahan would easily have this team competing.

I mean lose the injuries to the O-Line, have Rod's leadership and heart on the field on sundays, Javon not having any knee problems, and imagine the team not playing with a heavy heart over the loss of 2 of their friends and teammates a few adjustments on the D-Line and tell me that this team wouldn't be competing.

Injuries and bad circumstances are to blame this season not Shannahan

Lot's of excuses. Al Wilson is a big loss but, he would not be able to close off the hole in the donkey dike. You don't have talent on the defensive side of the ball and the Overrated Shan-a-rat doesn't evaluate talent well. The heavy heart is nothing more than an excuse... it should fire up the team if anything. I'm not trying to diminish the players feelings on death but that is not an excuse. These things happened in the offseason and the team had ample time to prepare ala picking up Dre Bly!

The team was competing last season before Shanahan pulled the plug on Plummer during your playoff run. That was a quitters move and the team never recovered. This isn't about cutler vs plummer. My point is that Plummer was the best option. You don't play for next season during the season if you have a shot to make the playoffs. Maybe there is a division among players because of the Jake Plummer situation... For me that would be more realistic than players having a heavy heart.

Bronx33
10-31-2007, 04:59 PM
Because Shannahan was the Broncos head coach then...

Wow, you're an idiot.


I concur..

Maximus
10-31-2007, 04:59 PM
With that defense i could win a Super Bowl.

Great point... that's the other half of the debate. Ratboy fields terrible defense every season.

Garcia Bronco
10-31-2007, 05:02 PM
Great point... that's the other half of the debate. Ratboy fields terrible defense every season.

LOL

Like I said....you are trying to rattle the saber...but I can totally understand why you want Shanahan gone...it's because he owns the Raider lock, stock, and barrel.

Maximus
10-31-2007, 05:02 PM
Because Shannahan was the Broncos head coach then...

Wow, you're an idiot.

Talking to retards is starting to rub off

Bronx33
10-31-2007, 05:06 PM
Just admit your still mad big AL screwed you out of atleast 2 superbowls wins Maxi gruden and shanny would have gotten you there (no doubt) and won it. Your hatred for shanahan is obvious and i understand why being owned year after year no matter what shanahan puts on the field vs the fade and still wins (has to drive a raider fan nutz)

Maximus
10-31-2007, 05:06 PM
Plain and simple Shanahan made a big mistake when he tried to build up the Defense. He just wasted time until now where he realizes this has to be a offense first team. Truth is if we kept building the offense instead of worrying about defense we would be a lot better now and the defense we would have that everyone would have complained about would not be any worse then what we have now. He realizes the only chance to win in todays NFL is to keep scoring. Even the best Defenses cant touch these high powered offenses. Many people here including myself though getting Bailey would really change the way Manning decapitates us. We are now on the right track and Shanahan will prove by next year when this team is a true contender, he is still the man for the job.


Wow! if he didn't try to fix the defense, Indy would score 1,000 point against you and LT would have gashed you for 1,500 yards in a single game!

Spider
10-31-2007, 05:11 PM
LOL max ..... time to sober up Buddy , and Wolf , there is a reason you are on a message board and not in Charge , give you 3 guess as to why that is Wolf ......

Maximus
10-31-2007, 05:11 PM
LOL

Like I said....you are trying to rattle the saber...but I can totally understand why you want Shanahan gone...it's because he owns the Raider lock, stock, and barrel.

Sheesh... I don't care if he stays or goes. How many times must I say that. It's just rediculous to listen to fans slob and choke on his weenie out of fear! He's not the first, last or greatest coach. He can be replaced by a number of coaches who can do the same or better than he has Post Elway!

Jeff Fisher, Mike Holmgren and yes Bill Cohwer!

rbackfactory80
10-31-2007, 05:13 PM
Wow! if he didn't try to fix the defense, Indy would score 1,000 point against you and LT would have gashed you for 1,500 yards in a single game!

Get smart dude. You can't play worst defense then we played. Even if they put up 50005 we would have put up 50006. Shouldn't you worry more about the Raiders and not winning a division game since 04. That is a problem.

Maximus
10-31-2007, 05:16 PM
Get smart dude. You can't play worst defense then we played. Even if they put up 50005 we would have put up 50006. Shouldn't you worry more about the Raiders and not winning a division game since 04. That is a problem.


We can handle that in another thread. Right now I'm addressing myths, lies, deception and fear...ROFL!

Shanarat = The Bush Administration

bowtown
10-31-2007, 05:23 PM
We can handle that in another thread. Right now I'm addressing myths, lies, deception and fear...ROFL!

Shanarat = The Bush Administration

Deflect much?

http://www.glennbeck.com/1-30/aldavismburns1.gif

Bronx33
10-31-2007, 05:26 PM
We can handle that in another thread. Right now I'm addressing myths, lies, deception and fear...ROFL!

Shanarat = The Bush Administration


Have another cocktail max..

Maximus
10-31-2007, 05:27 PM
Deflect much?

http://www.glennbeck.com/1-30/aldavismburns1.gif



Join date 2006 auto ignore.

Maximus
10-31-2007, 05:31 PM
Have another cocktail max..


Get your own lines... Stop stealing spiders ****.

Bronx33
10-31-2007, 05:31 PM
Join date 2006 auto ignore.



Join date 2001 and you can't take it? the guy is right maxi and the auto ignore response is just another deflection.

Bronx33
10-31-2007, 05:32 PM
Get your own lines... Stop stealing spiders ****.




Wheres ACE?

Garcia Bronco
10-31-2007, 05:34 PM
Sheesh... I don't care if he stays or goes. How many times must I say that. It's just rediculous to listen to fans slob and choke on his weenie out of fear! He's not the first, last or greatest coach. He can be replaced by a number of coaches who can do the same or better than he has Post Elway!

Jeff Fisher, Mike Holmgren and yes Bill Cohwer!

None of those guys can compete with Shanahan pure and simple.

Spider
10-31-2007, 05:36 PM
None of those guys can compete with Shanahan pure and simple.

all those remarks I made about your intelligence in the RWP forum ........ well they still stand , but you nailed this one ;D

Garcia Bronco
10-31-2007, 05:40 PM
all those remarks I made about your intelligence in the RWP forum ........ well they still stand , but you nailed this one ;D

Hearts ands minds...you'll come around.. :)

Spider
10-31-2007, 05:41 PM
Hearts ands minds...you'll come around.. :)

;D I doubt it

Bronx33
10-31-2007, 06:00 PM
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/1015/warrenwallace4pg0.png
Wheres raiderfan he was here a minute ago?

Maximus
10-31-2007, 08:26 PM
Join date 2001 and you can't take it? the guy is right maxi and the auto ignore response is just another deflection.

You know nothing about right and wrong. You might find out the difference if you stop smiffing everyones ass and formulate a real opinion...

How about this donk 33 is stupid and I'm tired of talking to you so your on ignore too.

TheReverend
11-01-2007, 07:21 AM
Holmgren, Fischer and Cowher?

All 3 combined have the same amount of rings as Shannahan.

Shannahan got one head to head against holmgren when his team was double digit underdogs.

I'm a large Fischer fan, but anyone can see a large part of their success is Norm Chow dialing it down to a manageable level for Prince Vince.

Bill Cowher? Seriously? Silly Raider fans

BroncoSoja
11-01-2007, 09:05 AM
Holmgren, Fischer and Cowher?

All 3 combined have the same amount of rings as Shannahan.

Shannahan got one head to head against holmgren when his team was double digit underdogs.

I'm a large Fischer fan, but anyone can see a large part of their success is Norm Chow dialing it down to a manageable level for Prince Vince.

Bill Cowher? Seriously? Silly Raider fans

Holmgren has taken two different teams to the SB(Which means you can't say that Holmgren needed Farve to get there), Shanny-hand was fired by the freaking faiders and had to have Elway hold his hand to be taken to the Superbowl.

So its pretty clear in my mind and probably alot of others outside of the Bronco Maniac land who is a better coach of those two. Take Elway away from the Rat and he has done nothing in the NFL as a Head coach but fail. Take Farve away from Holmgren and he still has been pretty successful. GG the END.

defenseman
11-01-2007, 09:22 AM
None of those guys can compete with Shanahan pure and simple.

To believe that Shanahan is the only coach that could be successful, or as successful as he has been, is quite simply unrealistic. There are other good coaches in the NFL and elsewhere I'm sure. I know, who are they? Does it really matter? To deny good coaching elsewhere is just plain putting the blinders on. The fact is, because Pat Bowlen has given him carte blanche to do whatever he wants, let alone whenever he wants, makes this entire discussion pretty much worthless. In short, the owner makes the calls, he sides with shanny. That said, I believe he is shortsighted presently, and not best positioning his organization for the future by taking such a position. There is lots of talent out there coaching wise, the fact is, it's just a matter of opinion. To deny such, is placing the blinders on just like Bowlen..dman

TheReverend
11-01-2007, 09:52 AM
Holmgren has taken two different teams to the SB(Which means you can't say that Holmgren needed Farve to get there), Shanny-hand was fired by the freaking faiders and had to have Elway hold his hand to be taken to the Superbowl.

So its pretty clear in my mind and probably alot of others outside of the Bronco Maniac land who is a better coach of those two. Take Elway away from the Rat and he has done nothing in the NFL as a Head coach but fail. Take Farve away from Holmgren and he still has been pretty successful. GG the END.

Denver lost to the Steelers in the AFCCG... that's the same team that beat Holmgren's Seahawks in the Superbowl per your argument. Not to mention Denver's win over New England was a much greater accomplishment than Seattle's post season "success" in the weak NFC.

Not sure how your argument holds up there.

Also, how is 1 losing season out of 10 considered "done nothing but fail"?

What are you so angry about?

TheReverend
11-01-2007, 09:57 AM
To believe that Shanahan is the only coach that could be successful, or as successful as he has been, is quite simply unrealistic. There are other good coaches in the NFL and elsewhere I'm sure. I know, who are they? Does it really matter? To deny good coaching elsewhere is just plain putting the blinders on. The fact is, because Pat Bowlen has given him carte blanche to do whatever he wants, let alone whenever he wants, makes this entire discussion pretty much worthless. In short, the owner makes the calls, he sides with shanny. That said, I believe he is shortsighted presently, and not best positioning his organization for the future by taking such a position. There is lots of talent out there coaching wise, the fact is, it's just a matter of opinion. To deny such, is placing the blinders on just like Bowlen..dman

Another stupid argument.

A few months after making it to the AFCCG, SHANNAHAN scrapped the mold and drafted Jay Cutler for that very reason.

Cutler, Elvis, Marshall, Myers, Kuper, Thomas, Moss, Young, Foxworth... all solid contributors under 25.

Mediator12
11-01-2007, 10:23 AM
So, this is what this board looks like sub .500 at the halfway mark for the first time in 8 years Yikes!

What concerns me about Shanahan is his approach to defense with this team. He has his patented zone blocking running and mobile passing game on offense where he can plug and play players that are undrafted and be successful due to the the system on offense. But when has the defense had a consistent identity since he got here?

The reason the Colts and Pats are so damn good right now is that their no name depth can step in and play replacement level on both sides of the ball. They have both played extraordinary with a lot of injuries this season and had players step up into starting roles and play well. They have not missed a beat in pummeling opponents.

The defense continually has had players drafted and acquired that do not fit the current defense and requires much scheme adjustment in order to succeed. The man coverage CB draft class had to play heavy cover two and cover three zone because the Pass rush did not fit playing man. The LB's were not good blitzers when the front four struggled to get pressure and needed to Blitz more. So, the Secondary has to play a lot of Cover zero to force the QB to get rid of the ball quickly even to this day.

Bates has been able to blow up the defense to fit his mold, with no success with the returning players fitting into his scheme. Compounding matters, the players that are replacing starters from last year have played even worse than those they replaced to this point. At Least, they drafted players that have solid pass rush ability and should show some promise in the near future. However, they have not done much to this point and are even being deactivated so Rice can act like he can still play.

I just wonder how much more successful this team would be if Mike put the same system philosophy into place on defense that he has done with the offense. Although, the 16 point per game average the offense has had since last year is not the type of success I would want for the defense. That would just be status quo for this season with 26 points per game surrendered.

T henry rulz
11-01-2007, 10:39 AM
Cowher>Shanahan

Shanny is burnt out IMO.

alkemical
11-01-2007, 11:04 AM
look at what say andy reid did in PHI. I think there are a few coaches that can do well. (not saying i want andy reid - but you get the gist)

As much as i'm ired of shanny being stale - he's done some good things. drafting culer - finally drafting the DL (he tried before but with damn injury plauged players, or with 4th round picks)

TheReverend
11-01-2007, 11:04 AM
Cowher>Shanahan

Shanny is burnt out IMO.

Thank you for answering the clamors that arose from this board demanding your opinion. Go join Soja in the idiot club sitting in the corner with the dunce caps on.

theAPAOps5
11-01-2007, 11:15 AM
Thank you for answering the clamors that arose from this board demanding your opinion. Go join Soja in the idiot club sitting in the corner with the dunce caps on.

:thumbs: What do you expect from a guy who choose T Henry rulz as a screen name. A guy who has nine kids and who will be unemployed by next month.

Popcorn Sutton
11-01-2007, 11:49 AM
:thumbs: What do you expect from a guy who choose T Henry rulz as a screen name. A guy who has nine kids and who will be unemployed by next month.

It's Bob.

T henry rulz
11-01-2007, 11:53 AM
It's Bob.

Who the **** is Bob? Do tell.

Popcorn Sutton
11-01-2007, 11:56 AM
Who the **** is Bob? Do tell.

Who the **** comes onto this board with the name T henry rulz right after Bob got banned? We all know who you are!!!!

Seriously, after the news of 9 kids with 9 different women in 4 different states, the inability to pay child support and the consistent issues with the sticky icky, it's clear that T henry definitely does NOT rule.

His career is all but over unless his lawyers pull off a miracle.

TheReverend
11-01-2007, 12:11 PM
It's Bob.

I came to the same conclusion 15 minutes before

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=1771464&postcount=5

It's definitely him.

Rigs11
11-01-2007, 03:09 PM
Same difference. You either believe in the team..all aspects...or you don't. I believe in Mike Shanahan and most other people do too. If you follow the conclusion out replacing Mike Shanahan would set us back another 3-5 years.

all aspects? Too funny. Is the qb position different? Cuz there was a hell of alot of screaming last year for a qb change when we were 7-4.

Spider
11-01-2007, 03:17 PM
Another stupid argument.

A few months after making it to the AFCCG, SHANNAHAN scrapped the mold and drafted Jay Cutler for that very reason.

Cutler, Elvis, Marshall, Myers, Kuper, Thomas, Moss, Young, Foxworth... all solid contributors under 25.

yep ...... makings of a great team for a long time .....half these drama queen crack pots here cant see that

theAPAOps5
11-01-2007, 03:31 PM
That deserves to be a lifetime ban. Looks like they got rid of his alias profile though.

defenseman
11-01-2007, 03:33 PM
yep ...... makings of a great team for a long time .....half these drama queen crack pots here cant see that

everyone has an opinion spide. Quit making yourself look bad by denograting others, it isn't flattering to you in the least...dman

*Perhaps, you are the drama "king" to the queen. If you don't like the opinion, all you have to say is , "I DISAGREE" and leave the denograting crap to others. You are better than that, most of the time.

Bronx33
11-01-2007, 06:40 PM
You know nothing about right and wrong. You might find out the difference if you stop smiffing everyones ass and formulate a real opinion...

How about this donk 33 is stupid and I'm tired of talking to you so your on ignore too.


Can't take it Hilarious! so you will ignore me! Hilarious! what a bitch.

Bronx33
11-01-2007, 06:46 PM
Anubis probably meant to bump this question because maxi drove right around answering it so here it is again Maxi. (no thanks needed)


Quote:
Quoted by Maximus

I'm here to tell you cutler will never reach that status.

Anubis question

Just from curiosity just how do you come up to that conclusion with just 12 games? Not being an ass im just curious as too how you've come up with that conclusion already when the guy hasnt even gotten a full season under his belt.

go_broncos
11-04-2007, 02:57 PM
I agree...He needs to be fired aftet this season..

Garcia Bronco
11-04-2007, 03:17 PM
I agree...He needs to be fired aftet this season..

That wouldn't be wise. I think you give him another 5 years

Hercules Rockefeller
11-04-2007, 03:21 PM
13 seasons and Denver's going to have only their 2nd losing season in that time period. I don't know why Bowlen kept him around for so long, especially since every other team has had more than 2 losing seasons in that same time period.

Northman
11-04-2007, 03:22 PM
Anubis probably meant to bump this question because maxi drove right around answering it so here it is again Maxi. (no thanks needed)


Quote:
Quoted by Maximus

I'm here to tell you cutler will never reach that status.

Anubis question

Just from curiosity just how do you come up to that conclusion with just 12 games? Not being an ass im just curious as too how you've come up with that conclusion already when the guy hasnt even gotten a full season under his belt.


Yea, i am still wondering how he has determined that after 12 games but as usual he avoids something he has no answer for.

go_broncos
11-04-2007, 04:00 PM
That wouldn't be wise. I think you give him another 5 years

I hope you are joking..

HAT
11-04-2007, 04:12 PM
Not going to harp on today's result or even last weeks b/c my point this entire thread has been the bigger picture.

SB Champ. / Coach / years as coach
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

colts / Dungy / 5th
pitt / Cowher / 13th
NE / Bellicheck / 5th
NE / Bellicheck / 4th
TB / Gruden / 1st
NE / Bellicheck / 2nd
Balt / Billick / 2nd
Stl / Dick4meal / 3rd
Den / Shanny / 4th
Den / Shanny / 3rd
GB / Holmgren / 5th
Dal / Switzer / 2nd
SF / Siefert / 6th
Dal / JJ / 5th
Dal / JJ / 4th
Wash / Gibbs / 11th
NYG / Parcells / 8th
SF / Siefert / 1st
SF / Walsh / 10th

(Got tired of searching after 20 years)

Clearly, it's pretty rare for a 10+ year tenured HC to strike gold....just like it is for a first or second year one. Years 3-6 are the money years.

Makes sense if you think about it. 1st & 2nd year coaches are usually inheriting terrible teams and need time to implement their own brand of football, with personell of their choosing & to build continuity. (Sans Siefert/Gruden). Long time HC's (9.10,11 + years) have either burntout, lost their ability to motivate or the game has just flat passed them by.

Let's see if Shanny can strike gold in 2008 (his 14th year). I don't care if they win it all, go 1 and done in the PO's or finish 6-10 again.....2008 needs to be his last year.

Garcia Bronco
11-04-2007, 04:17 PM
I hope you are joking..

There is no argument you can really make to get rid of him. So what if we are taking it on the chin this season, that's no reason to "fire shanahan".

Garcia Bronco
11-04-2007, 04:20 PM
Not going to harp on today's result or even last weeks b/c my point this entire thread has been the bigger picture.

SB Champ. / Coach / years as coach
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

colts / Dungy / 5th
pitt / Cowher / 13th
NE / Bellicheck / 5th
NE / Bellicheck / 4th
TB / Gruden / 1st
NE / Bellicheck / 2nd
Balt / Billick / 2nd
Stl / Dick4meal / 3rd
Den / Shanny / 4th
Den / Shanny / 3rd
GB / Holmgren / 5th
Dal / Switzer / 2nd
SF / Siefert / 6th
Dal / JJ / 5th
Dal / JJ / 4th
Wash / Gibbs / 11th
NYG / Parcells / 8th
SF / Siefert / 1st
SF / Walsh / 10th

(Got tired of searching after 20 years)

Clearly, it's pretty rare for a 10+ year tenured HC to strike gold....just like it is for a first or second year one. Years 3-6 are the money years.

Makes sense if you think about it. 1st & 2nd year coaches are usually inheriting terrible teams and need time to implement their own brand of football, with personell of their choosing & to build continuity. (Sans Siefert/Gruden). Long time HC's (9.10,11 + years) have either burntout, lost their ability to motivate or the game has just flat passed them by.

Let's see if Shanny can strike gold in 2008 (his 14th year). I don't care if they win it all, go 1 and done in the PO's or finish 6-10 again.....2008 needs to be his last year.

That's really not a good reason either. One doesn't really have to do with the other. It's also ridiculious from the perspective that many of those choches coached elsewhere and from many years before winning it.

telluride
11-04-2007, 04:20 PM
Our only hope is for Shanny to quit.

C'mon Shanny, quit!

fontaine
11-04-2007, 04:38 PM
There is nothing to gain by firing Mike.

The team has more players injured than I can ever remember. That's not a coaching issue.

The only thing Mike needs to do a better job of is draft and free agent acquisitions.

We've got a great owner, a great coach and plenty of young talent to develop with room under the cap. Like Herc said, Shanahan for another 5 years.

HEAV
11-04-2007, 04:42 PM
It's time to go in a new direction. Today his players gave up, hell didn't even show up, for this game.


I understand the injuries aren't his fault. But the player he brought in at O-line are crap. He's nickled the the money at O-line the last few years.

Running back he gave solid cash to a drug head and a fragile one at that.

Over paid for a TE, when he should have over paid for the DE (Kerney).

He went cheap with the LB's and passed on drafting one of the solid prospects in the draft.

He as ignored the FS postion the last 3 years.

Coaching? Head scratching play calling in the redzone (for over two years).

Seems to not have the ability to get teams ready to play every week.

Burn out? Maybe. But burn out can also happen to a franchise.

Shanny could have a High draft selection and will have some cap dollars to play with and truthfully, that scares me, when it should scare other teams.

HAT
11-04-2007, 04:48 PM
It's also ridiculious from the perspective that many of those choches coached elsewhere and from many years before winning it.

Which is exactly the point I've been trying to make Garcia......

Many of those coaches coached elsewhere and for whatever reason needed a change of scenery, a new opportunity, before putting a team over the top. And, *gasp*, some of those coaches had fans of their new team scratching their heads......"But, but, our old coach was better!!"

The reverse also applies.....some of those teams already had a great foundation in place but had becomes STALE with a tenured coach. The team needed a change of scenery, a 'hungrier' HC, a new style of offense or D, etc.

TB/Dungy/Gruden is a perfect example. Dungy had built a solid team (only one losing season) but everyone knew he wasn't winning the SB with THAT team. Enter 'new blood' and voila! Win/win for both team & exiting coach as Dungy got his a few years later with his new team.

I'm not debating that Gruden is a better coach (obviously he hasn't done sh!t since).....but teams & coaches need change.

I respectfully disagree with your contention that "one doesn't have anything to do with the other" I think there is a very real correlation between any given teams chances at success and how long they have had the same head coach. Further, after 10+ years of status quo....a teams chances of being top-tier significantly decrease. STALE, PREDICTABLE, LACK OF FIRE.


Mike Shanahan is relatively young and still relavant as a head coach in this day and age.....I'm am not debating that. (Though some in this thread are)
He is my favorite coach.

I truly believe that both the Denver Broncos & Mike Shanahan will reach the SB again within the next 7 years. Just not together.

Garcia Bronco
11-04-2007, 04:49 PM
It's time to go in a new direction. Today his players gave up, hell didn't even show up, for this game.


I understand the injuries aren't his fault. But the player he brought in at O-line are crap. He's nickled the the money at O-line the last few years.

Running back he gave solid cash to a drug head and a fragile one at that.

Over paid for a TE, when he should have over paid for the DE (Kerney).

He went cheap with the LB's and passed on drafting one of the solid prospects in the draft.

He as ignored the FS postion the last 3 years.

Coaching? Head scratching play calling in the redzone (for over two years).

Seems to not have the ability to get teams ready to play every week.

Burn out? Maybe. But burn out can also happen to a franchise.

Shanny could have a High draft selection and will have some cap dollars to play with and truthfully, that scares me, when it should scare other teams.

Ahh yeah...mostly that's all horse ****. I don't think you understand what's on the field right now.

broncswin
11-04-2007, 04:52 PM
Can't take it Hilarious! so you will ignore me! Hilarious! what a b****.

Like I said in a earlier post his name is Maxi-puss and he is the face of the raiders. By the way, he has about 90% of the mane on ignore!!Hilarious!

The little ***** wont even get this because.....I am on IGNORE:yayaya:

HEAV
11-04-2007, 04:54 PM
Ahh yeah...mostly that's all horse ****. I don't think you understand what's on the field right now.



A piss poor team, with more question marks, than answers.

Garcia Bronco
11-04-2007, 04:56 PM
A piss poor team, with more question marks, than answers.

We'll be back...and we staill have a change this year

Garcia Bronco
11-04-2007, 04:58 PM
A piss poor team, with more question marks, than answers.

We'll be back...and we staill have a chance this year

oubronco
11-04-2007, 04:59 PM
Not going to harp on today's result or even last weeks b/c my point this entire thread has been the bigger picture.

SB Champ. / Coach / years as coach
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

colts / Dungy / 5th
pitt / Cowher / 13th
NE / Bellicheck / 5th
NE / Bellicheck / 4th
TB / Gruden / 1st
NE / Bellicheck / 2nd
Balt / Billick / 2nd
Stl / Dick4meal / 3rd
Den / Shanny / 4th
Den / Shanny / 3rd
GB / Holmgren / 5th
Dal / Switzer / 2nd
SF / Siefert / 6th
Dal / JJ / 5th
Dal / JJ / 4th
Wash / Gibbs / 11th
NYG / Parcells / 8th
SF / Siefert / 1st
SF / Walsh / 10th

(Got tired of searching after 20 years)

Clearly, it's pretty rare for a 10+ year tenured HC to strike gold....just like it is for a first or second year one. Years 3-6 are the money years.

Makes sense if you think about it. 1st & 2nd year coaches are usually inheriting terrible teams and need time to implement their own brand of football, with personell of their choosing & to build continuity. (Sans Siefert/Gruden). Long time HC's (9.10,11 + years) have either burntout, lost their ability to motivate or the game has just flat passed them by.

Let's see if Shanny can strike gold in 2008 (his 14th year). I don't care if they win it all, go 1 and done in the PO's or finish 6-10 again.....2008 needs to be his last year.

this is very interesting bravo on the research

fontaine
11-04-2007, 05:13 PM
You know what's even more interesting?

Guys like Dungy, Cowher, Bellichick, didn't win the big game until they got a big game QB.

Even if we do get another great coach, he's not going to do anything until this team is loaded with talent and playmakers. We've already got a solid young one in Cutler.

I only wish we would have had a guy like him earlier but I believe Mike is the best coach right now for the job. I just don't see anyone better who can come in and do a better job?

NFLBRONCO
11-04-2007, 05:17 PM
You know what's even more interesting?

Guys like Dungy, Cowher, Bellichick, didn't win the big game until they got a big game QB.

Even if we do get another great coach, he's not going to do anything until this team is loaded with talent and playmakers. We've already got a solid young one in Cutler.

I only wish we would have had a guy like him earlier but I believe Mike is the best coach right now for the job. I just don't see anyone better who can come in and do a better job?


Problem is Shanny's not what you'd call a great team builder imo. We are at that point right now. This is why I have wanted higher picks to see if he can hit jackpot once. Indy got Manning Edge and Harrison boom boom boom that helps..

Kaylore
11-04-2007, 05:21 PM
I agree that once we get healthier our depth will be nice as it will all be tested, but I want to see a team with more physicality and energy play 60 minutes. Right now it doesn't feel like there are any leaders on this team. I asked Shanahan how he felt about losing starting captains on all three units and he kind of dodged the question. Well it looks like it's coming back to haunt us.

HAT
11-04-2007, 05:26 PM
You know what's even more interesting?

Guys like Dungy, Cowher, Bellichick, didn't win the big game until they got a big game QB.



Technically, Cowher still hasn't won it. :thumbs: :thumbs:

(edited for spelling)

wolf754life
11-04-2007, 06:11 PM
44 to 7, the DETRIOT Lions? shannahans job is safe? what will it take people?

http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=80311

Northman
11-04-2007, 06:30 PM
44 to 7, the DETRIOT Lions? shannahans job is safe? what will it take people?

http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=80311


52-7

theAPAOps5
11-04-2007, 06:31 PM
Yeah 13 starters suffer injuries. This team is decimated and you still put the blame on Shanny. There are some stupid ass fans on this site.

go_broncos
11-04-2007, 06:37 PM
Yeah 13 starters suffer injuries. This team is decimated and you still put the blame on Shanny. There are some stupid ass fans on this site.

Our team is horrible even before injuries...

Don't use this as an excuse..

NFLBRONCO
11-04-2007, 06:39 PM
Our team is horrible even before injuries...

Don't use this as an excuse..

Thank You

yerner
11-04-2007, 06:48 PM
i think he's just burnt.

Garcia Bronco
11-04-2007, 06:50 PM
It's more than just injuries and key injuries. Deaths. Youth. New Systems. Rookie QB.

Denver Crush
11-04-2007, 06:55 PM
There were a lot of us that saw this same sh!t during the pre season. Injuries may be part of the issue on offense, but save 1 game, our d has been complete garbage since the beginning. Our st has also been complete garbage since the beginning. This year is basically wasted barring some sort of miraculous cure for the suck.

Bronx33
11-04-2007, 06:59 PM
This thread is as stupid as ever..

theAPAOps5
11-04-2007, 07:06 PM
Our team is horrible even before injuries...

Don't use this as an excuse..

I'm not but firing Shanny is going to make things worse. This is a season where a ton went wrong. But firing the coach is not the solution. Rebuilding is. Again there is some stupid ass fans on this site.

TDmvp
11-04-2007, 07:07 PM
I'm not but firing Shanny is going to make things worse. This is a season where a ton went wrong. But firing the coach is not the solution. Rebuilding is. Again there is some stupid ass fans on this site.

just going thru repping people who have a brain...

HAT
11-04-2007, 07:21 PM
I'm not but firing Shanny is going to make things worse. This is a season where a ton went wrong. But firing the coach is not the solution. Rebuilding is. Again there is some stupid ass fans on this site.

Why is it that some people claim they want to "rebuild".....but can't see that new blood at HC can and should also be part of a franchise rebuilding?

How is the HC job any different from any other position on the team.

MLB, QB, DC, K, ST coach, FB, etc.?

Oh wait.....now I remember.

I sure wish I could keep my position in outside sales & also be my own sales manager.

Rigs11
11-04-2007, 07:32 PM
This team is a joke. the term rebuilding is used when your team sucks and you're to much of a homer to tell yourself that they suck.Shanny needs to go, seriously people how many more thrashings do we need to endure? Bring in Mike Martz to replace him. That guy knows how to use a qb with cutler's abilities.

theAPAOps5
11-04-2007, 07:55 PM
This team is a joke. the term rebuilding is used when your team sucks and you're to much of a homer to tell yourself that they suck.Shanny needs to go, seriously people how many more thrashings do we need to endure? Bring in Mike Martz to replace him. That guy knows how to use a qb with cutler's abilities.

This is a dumb statement. A team is rebuilding when they replace half their coaches, abandoned the D-Line from the year before, Have "rookie" starter QB, have a new RB, lost an Offensive Tackle. Its a rebuilding year this team was never going to be 13-3 or 12-4. People who thought are the homers.

And the joke is wanting Mike Martz as the head coach. He is a great O-Coordinator but not a great head coach.

bloodsunday
11-04-2007, 08:03 PM
We are 10 yrs out from the superbowls, this team has crumbled talent wise to its current state, a 6 and 10 team, with brittle veterans and no depth at key positions. Shannahan has lost his touch, at least here in Denver, and the players no longer respond to his leadership.
There is some truth to this. But some of it is bad luck as well. I do think Shanahan's style may be starting to rub some people the wrong way a bit. It's a bad sign when you have a stable staff that has now become a revolving door.


Think about it, take off your homer glasses and look at whats actually going on at dove valley. His biggest problem is personnel. Do these names mean anything, Ashlie Lelie, George Foster, DJ Williams, Paul Tovesi, Darius Watts, Marcus Nash, Tatum Bell, the list goes on and on, over the last 10 yrs no team has drafted worse than we have, and it shows on our roster. (Especially on Defense), the last couple years have been better and is saving our Offense with marshall, cutler. Paying Gerrard Warren over Trevor Pryce was a huge mistake....

Ed Reed and Steven Jackson could have BOTH been on this roster now!

I agree with your premise and have been the #1 guy around here saying we draft horribly. I would say becareful because every team would draft better in hindsight. Instead of focusing on individual picks, I look at one stat: we have something like 15 players on our roster that we drafted! That's embarrasing. We blow entire drafts at one position and wind up with nothing (remember all the DL a few years ago?). The point to make is that this organization is desperate to win and committed to building the team to win now -- even when its NOT POSSIBLE! Thus they choose to build via free agency.

Coaching, ever since kubiak left his offensive playcalling has been atrocious, especially in the redzone, and his coaching staffs have done terrible. How many D coordinators are we going to go through? How many special teams coaches? Time and Time again he gets a free pass on these critical decisions.
We miss Kubes more than anyone will admit.

Its simply time for him to go, although I am sure pat bowlen has a million excuses for him....Shannahan is still a great coach, but not here, not now, not in Denver anymore, its time for him to go and time for a new voice and a new coaching staff with fresh ideas and fresh motivation!
I don't want Shanahan to go... but some change is needed. Namely I think Bowlen needs to ask him to decide if he is in this for the long run or one more run. If he is committed to this team for several more years, then they need to slow it down a bit and build a foundation of players rather than frantically rebuilding the entire roster every year. It may take a year or two or three. And I know Shanahan prides himself on winning now and wants the Super Bowl to be the goal every year. That's a great goal, but you have to use disciplined methods to get there. Otherwise, even if you get some good chemistry in your favor (2005) you can't sustain that success. What we are doing right now in the personnel department stinks of desperation.

Rigs11
11-04-2007, 08:09 PM
This is a dumb statement. A team is rebuilding when they replace half their coaches, abandoned the D-Line from the year before, Have "rookie" starter QB, have a new RB, lost an Offensive Tackle. Its a rebuilding year this team was never going to be 13-3 or 12-4. People who thought are the homers.

And the joke is wanting Mike Martz as the head coach. He is a great O-Coordinator but not a great head coach.

So we rebuild every year?:rofl:

Broncomutt
11-04-2007, 08:09 PM
Why is it that some people claim they want to "rebuild".....but can't see that new blood at HC can and should also be part of a franchise rebuilding?

How is the HC job any different from any other position on the team.

Yah, exactly how I feel. I remember the glare Shanny used to have in his eyes. Laser beams. I don't see that anymore.

The team is soft and the buck stops with Shanny.

ScottXray
11-04-2007, 08:16 PM
There is some truth to this. But some of it is bad luck as well. I do think Shanahan's style may be starting to rub some people the wrong way a bit. It's a bad sign when you have a stable staff that has now become a revolving door.


I agree with your premise and have been the #1 guy around here saying we draft horribly. I would say becareful because every team would draft better in hindsight. Instead of focusing on individual picks, I look at one stat: we have something like 15 players on our roster that we drafted! That's embarrasing. We blow entire drafts at one position and wind up with nothing (remember all the DL a few years ago?). The point to make is that this organization is desperate to win and committed to building the team to win now -- even when its NOT POSSIBLE! Thus they choose to build via free agency.


We miss Kubes more than anyone will admit.


I don't want Shanahan to go... but some change is needed. Namely I think Bowlen needs to ask him to decide if he is in this for the long run or one more run. If he is committed to this team for several more years, then they need to slow it down a bit and build a foundation of players rather than frantically rebuilding the entire roster every year. It may take a year or two or three. And I know Shanahan prides himself on winning now and wants the Super Bowl to be the goal every year. That's a great goal, but you have to use disciplined methods to get there. Otherwise, even if you get some good chemistry in your favor (2005) you can't sustain that success. What we are doing right now in the personnel department stinks of desperation.

Good Post. The key is Bowlen...he needs to at least get Shanahan to acknowledge that the current plan isn't working, and get him to take the long view.

On the other hand , if we aren't back to competing for the division (a REAL division) title by the end of next year, and its cause of "more of the same" play, I think it will be time to bring in new blood. The team looks the same every year (except this year its just too many injuries), and it is stale.

OBF1
11-04-2007, 08:41 PM
This is a dumb statement. A team is rebuilding when they replace half their coaches, abandoned the D-Line from the year before, Have "rookie" starter QB, have a new RB, lost an Offensive Tackle. Its a rebuilding year this team was never going to be 13-3 or 12-4. People who thought are the homers.

And the joke is wanting Mike Martz as the head coach. He is a great O-Coordinator but not a great head coach.

May I ask you a serious question ApaOps? Who's fault is it that we replaced 1/2 the coaches, abandoned the D line, have a rookie QB and a new RB?

Shanny hired all the old coaches we fired last season and hired the new ones. Shanny picked all the Brownco's that we fired, drafted Cutler and benched Plummer and got Travis Henry via free agency. Shanny is the only constant in the equation, So who's fault is this laughing stock called the Broncos???

broncofan2438
11-04-2007, 08:49 PM
This is all true. The NFL discovered Shanny and his offense

theAPAOps5
11-04-2007, 08:54 PM
May I ask you a serious question ApaOps? Who's fault is it that we replaced 1/2 the coaches, abandoned the D line, have a rookie QB and a new RB?

Shanny hired all the old coaches we fired last season and hired the new ones. Shanny picked all the Brownco's that we fired, drafted Cutler and benched Plummer and got Travis Henry via free agency. Shanny is the only constant in the equation, So who's fault is this laughing stock called the Broncos???

Ah but that is where I agree. Shanny the GM has to go. He is letting down Shanny the Coach. I have said that for two years now. But I absolutely believe that he is still one of the best coaching prospects out there. As a GM he is not very good. His best moves so far have been Marshall and Cutler. But he also has made horrible decisions. And to answer rigs yes, lately it seems like its constantly rebuilding. But this is the first year that there was a youth movement in a while especially on the D Line, the QB, and OLine. Before it was a retooling movement and all that got us was 10-6 and 1 and done. Sometimes you have to blow it up a little more to take the steps forward.

MechanicalBull
11-04-2007, 08:57 PM
Can we please stop with this Ed Reed and Steven Jackson stuff? Enough already. For one, say we got Ed Reed who says he will be as good as he is in Baltimore's system right now and who is to say by drafting him we would be in the same position to draft Steven Jackson.

Secondly why not just say like oh we should've drafted Tom Brady in 2000 and we wouldn't have had to deal with Griese, Plummer, Frerrote, and so on.

wolf754life
11-06-2007, 12:01 AM
bumped for merit

Garcia Bronco
11-06-2007, 09:21 AM
Good Post. The key is Bowlen...he needs to at least get Shanahan to acknowledge that the current plan isn't working, and get him to take the long view.
.

What Plan?...you mean still succeed despite losing half your starting roster plan. The nerve. You people are challenged when it comes to analyzing the facts.

Mike Shanahan is a great coach. You people should go pull for another team. Seriously. Because win or lose you don't deserve this one.

bloodsunday
11-06-2007, 09:29 AM
This is all true. The NFL discovered Shanny and his offense

WRONG! The NFL has known about Shanny and his offense for decades. But, with a few slight adjustments every week and PLAYERS that could EXECUTE, it still works.

How do you think J-Ville wins games? Their O is a simple as it gets. They just out execute people at doing it.

Shanahan is no dumber today then he was five years ago, or even 10 years ago when people called him a mastermind. He just doesn't have players that make him look as smart anymore.

How smart would Bellichick look without Brady and Moss?

fontaine
11-06-2007, 09:44 AM
This team is a joke. the term rebuilding is used when your team sucks and you're to much of a homer to tell yourself that they suck.Shanny needs to go, seriously people how many more thrashings do we need to endure? Bring in Mike Martz to replace him. That guy knows how to use a qb with cutler's abilities.

Yeah let's go out and hire a guy who has a league wide reputation for getting his QBs killed since his days in St Louis.

Seriously I nominate this post as possibly the dumbest of the year.

Kitna was sacked 63 times last year. No that's not a typo. 6-freakin-3 times.
So far in 8 games he's been sacked 33 times to be on pace for 66 sacks because Martz would rather flood the defense with a spread out offense rather than give his QB protection.

Martz is the same coach who put back Kurt Warner in a game when all the world knew he was so badly concussed he could barely count to three. And Martz is an a$$hole to boot.

Kitna has been sacked a total of 96 times in 24 games with Martz.

Rigs, I actually feel embaressed for your stupidity.

Odysseus
11-06-2007, 09:53 AM
Yeah 13 starters suffer injuries. This team is decimated and you still put the blame on Shanny. There are some stupid ass fans on this site.

That isn't fair. They aren't stupid. Do you realize the effort it takes to research a stupid premise just to prove yourself right on one point but be completely wrong?

Did you realize that the longer an NFL player plays the more likely he is to retire if he doesn't get hurt?

Did you know that the more points our guys score ahead of the those other guys except for turnovers, penalties, and injuries the more likely we are to win?

I hope the Broncos lose for 10 years straight so we can get rid of some you gutless turds. Clean up the fan gene pool a little bit.

You guys can't save this crap until off season?

Odysseus
11-06-2007, 09:58 AM
What Plan?...you mean still succeed despite losing half your starting roster plan. The nerve. You people are challenged when it comes to analyzing the facts.

Mike Shanahan is a great coach. You people should go pull for another team. Seriously. Because win or lose you don't deserve this one.

Knock em dead Garcia. It's like squishing roachs. It's hardly worth the effort. Fumigate the lot of them.

Rigs11
11-06-2007, 11:02 AM
Yeah let's go out and hire a guy who has a league wide reputation for getting his QBs killed since his days in St Louis.

Seriously I nominate this post as possibly the dumbest of the year.

Kitna was sacked 63 times last year. No that's not a typo. 6-freakin-3 times.
So far in 8 games he's been sacked 33 times to be on pace for 66 sacks because Martz would rather flood the defense with a spread out offense rather than give his QB protection.

Martz is the same coach who put back Kurt Warner in a game when all the world knew he was so badly concussed he could barely count to three. And Martz is an a$$hole to boot.

Kitna has been sacked a total of 96 times in 24 games with Martz.

Rigs, I actually feel embaressed for your stupidity.


Ok genius, all we ever hear around here is how tough cutler is, and how he has great mobility, and a great arm bla bla bla. So in retrospect, and try to keep up here, is cutler a more gifted athlete than kitna?Could it be that kitna's sacks are somewhat a result of his play?Martz also won a superbowl with warner. Did you forget that?the lions were 3-13 last year, now they are 6-2.Talk about stupidity.

fontaine
11-06-2007, 11:26 AM
So in retrospect, and try to keep up here, is cutler a more gifted athlete than kitna?Could it be that kitna's sacks are somewhat a result of his play?Martz also won a superbowl with warner. Did you forget that?the lions were 3-13 last year, now they are 6-2.Talk about stupidity.
You really have no idea do you?

You don't even know how the man runs his offense and at what cost but you want him here in Denver?

And no I didn't forget Warner won a superbowl. Just like I didn't forget that Martz was the coordinator in that team and not the head coach. He had no part in building that team either. But it looks like you forgot.

Martz won a SuperBowl with Warner?
LOL

Martz couldn't even Barry Switzer it to a SuperBowl win after inheriting an all pro roster. All he did afterwards was run all the talent out of St Louis and couldn't draft defense to save his a$$.

Rigs11
11-06-2007, 02:01 PM
You really have no idea do you?

You don't even know how the man runs his offense and at what cost but you want him here in Denver?

And no I didn't forget Warner won a superbowl. Just like I didn't forget that Martz was the coordinator in that team and not the head coach. He had no part in building that team either. But it looks like you forgot.

Martz won a SuperBowl with Warner?
LOL

Martz couldn't even Barry Switzer it to a SuperBowl win after inheriting an all pro roster. All he did afterwards was run all the talent out of St Louis and couldn't draft defense to save his a$$.

Did i say he was the head coach when he won a superbowl with warner? You really have a lack of reading compreheension don't you? He had no part in building that team? Well maybe that is the problem with shanny, maybe he should coach and not be so involved in building.By the way going back to your previous post, is cutler a better qb than kitna talent wise? Here's an excerpt for ya:

Martz is known for creating complicated offensive schemes, particularly in the passing game. He developed Kurt Warner, Trent Green, and Marc Bulger into three of the league's finest quarterbacks of recent years. In fact, Warner, Green, and Bulger are three of the top ten quarterbacks in NFL history judging by the QB rating system.[1] As a head coach in the NFL Coach Martz took the St. Louis Rams to the playoffs five out of seven years including an NFC Championship and trip to Super Bowl XXXVI.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Martz

Maximus
11-06-2007, 03:00 PM
Yea, i am still wondering how he has determined that after 12 games but as usual he avoids something he has no answer for.

Here's what I said:


2. Shanarat took over a team with Elway much like dungy took over a team with manning and they both had the same result. Elway retired... Shanarat never recovered so, the comparison is valid in that it proves shanarat is mediocre and has found his success with a dominant QB. You can win double digits all the time, but you will not win a SB again with him unless you find that magical QB to put him over the top. I know most here want to say cutler has only 12 games under his belt. I'm here to tell you cutler will never reach that status. The only resembalance is the arm strength.

Here's what it means when you put cutler in the same sentence as ELWAY after 12 games ( It could be 64 games and I'll still be correct ) John Elway had IT as soon as he stepped on the field. Cutler has talent but he does not have IT The following people have or had IT

Michael Jordan
Magic Johnson
John Elway
Dan Marino
Kareem Abdul Jabbar
Larry Bird
Joe Montana
Jerry West
Deion Sanders
Alex English ( Give him the last shot and your dead )

fontaine
11-06-2007, 03:24 PM
This thread rocks.

If all we can come up with as viable alternatives to Shanahan are Pete Carroll and Mike Martz then it really shows we're better off with Mike Shanahan.

defenseman
11-06-2007, 03:29 PM
This thread rocks.

If all we can come up with as viable alternatives to Shanahan are Pete Carroll and Mike Martz then it really shows we're better off with Mike Shanahan.

Possibly, IF shanahan tosses his GM hat, the FO is evaluated for talent, the garbage gets tossed. And we bring in some "newblood" who actually have an innate ability to habitually draft top quality football talent out of the collegiate ranks. That, and shanahan is JUST the HC, No other responsibilities. Might get his head back where it needs to be to put his team in the best position to be competitive..dman

wolf754life
11-07-2007, 12:55 AM
think we will beat the squiefs without LJ ?

HAT
12-02-2007, 08:28 PM
This thread rocks.

If all we can come up with as viable alternatives to Shanahan are Pete Carroll and Mike Martz then it really shows we're better off with Mike Shanahan.

Sarkisian

Maximus
12-02-2007, 08:33 PM
Sarkisian

Keep shanarat! ... If you keep him Mike Sherman is a good Choice.

Raiders Rock
12-02-2007, 08:41 PM
Naaa We like The Overgrown Cockeyed Beaver

Northman
12-02-2007, 08:41 PM
Here's what I said:



Here's what it means when you put cutler in the same sentence as ELWAY after 12 games ( It could be 64 games and I'll still be correct ) John Elway had IT as soon as he stepped on the field. Cutler has talent but he does not have IT The following people have or had IT

Michael Jordan
Magic Johnson
John Elway
Dan Marino
Kareem Abdul Jabbar
Larry Bird
Joe Montana
Jerry West
Deion Sanders
Alex English ( Give him the last shot and your dead )



None of those had IT after 12 games.

go_broncos
12-02-2007, 08:44 PM
I believe shanny will have a chance next season..

If denver doesn't make playoff's next season, he will be fired.

telluride
12-02-2007, 08:49 PM
I believe shanny will have a chance next season..

If denver doesn't make playoff's next season, he will be fired.

Then that will be a season too late. If we want to be a winning franchise again, we need to clean house.

Mr Chatterboodamn
12-02-2007, 09:00 PM
I believe shanny will have a chance next season..

If denver doesn't make playoff's next season, he will be fired.

oh my god, i dont even think its that bad

this year, sad to declare = rebuilding year

the cool thing about a rebuilding year -- something we've never truly had because we've had one losing season since 1995 -- is that it is painfully obvious that we have an excellent young corp to re-build around. our offense in particular, because we have gotten younger in almost every position, you have to admit the new blood is good. i really think it's shortsighted to think that a coach would be in jeopardy with one losing season with such tenure. bowlen and shanahan are a good match, they are both top notch.... bowlen fur coat is bad though, i admit, as it was likely made from shanny's rodentia breatheren. and, oh, we got to an afc championship with jake plummer @ QB....that's gotta be coaching.

Mr Chatterboodamn
12-02-2007, 09:17 PM
This thread rocks.

If all we can come up with as viable alternatives to Shanahan are Pete Carroll and Mike Martz then it really shows we're better off with Mike Shanahan.

i know, it's really amazing that people take shanahan for granted. he is a perfect girlfriend some of you had during your drinking period and broke up with her cuz she wasnt perfect all the time .... I guarantee we could not acquired a better coach. It's like having a fantasy coach keeper league.... ok you have shanahan, and you got the 5th pick or you can keep him. this team is so obviously going to ascend... these losses help us get a "lights out" linebacker, like say, dan conner:
:strong:
Dan Connor Scouting Report
Position: OLB
School & Year/Status: Penn State - Senior
Height & Weight: 6'3 - 233 lbs.
Ranked #14 on our Top 100 Prospects Board
Undrafted

2008 NFL Draft Prospect - Scouting Report
Blue collar. That's the word heard most often when describing Dan Conner. The Penn State Senior linebacker has been nothing short of a tackling machine since the first game of his freshman year. In fact, according to an article by Jeff McLane of the Philadelphia Inquirer, Conner has failed to register at least 5 tackles in only 2 of his 43 career games. Conner even set the record for career tackles at Penn State against Purdue. The best tackler ever at a place referred to as Linebacker U. That's quite a ringing endorsement. Conner is leading Penn State with 105 tackles this year, helping their team to its stingy 90.6 rushing yards against average per game. Conner however, doesn't just wait for backs to come at him to be tackled. Conner has racked up 12 Tackles for loss this season along with 5 sacks, 1 INT, and 6 passes broken up in coverage. Conner has experience playing both inside and outside on the linebacking core, both with equally impressive results. Conner is often compared with his old teammate Paul Posluszny, who was drafted by the Buffalo Bills last year. He and Posluszny have a lot of similar skills and both have a nose for the football, always seeming to be in on the tackle. The best news for NFL teams is that Conner is probably a slightly more athletic version of his former teammate. What you get with Conner is a smart, versatile linebacker, who never misses a tackle. Last Updated Nov-07-2007
http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?Prospect_ID=1198

oh and every get better next year too... no no no way do you get rid of shanahan. you wont find a better man for the job, imo. can't win em all...

Mr Chatterboodamn
12-02-2007, 09:18 PM
also, Laurinaitis :egbgb:

mattbeymvp
12-02-2007, 11:39 PM
Then that will be a season too late. If we want to be a winning franchise again, we need to clean house.

It's like three seasons too late.

BroncoSoja
12-03-2007, 12:25 AM
Im not going even going to get into it with you Shanny-hand apoligist(sp) this time around.

All I can say is the hole is being dug and not even you Shanny-hand Bronco fans can do anything about it. I can't wait untill the day, I didn't go off with the "I told you so's" like I should have when Plummer finally was shown the door. But when Shanny-hand gets the boot its on!

On more thing check the sig, that is going to be our next coach :)

wabbit
12-03-2007, 12:57 AM
This thread rocks.

If all we can come up with as viable alternatives to Shanahan are Pete Carroll and Mike Martz then it really shows we're better off with Mike Shanahan.


Word

Wow, Raider fan has left his little droppings in this thread too.

I've spilled coffee that hasn't permeated so many cracks...just makes you wonder what really is behind that fridge you haven't moved in years.

24champ
12-03-2007, 01:00 AM
Pat Bowlen disapproves of this thread.

Cito Pelon
12-03-2007, 02:06 AM
Shanny has a good O, except for scoring in the second half. Shanny's O can't score worth a damn in the second half.

wolf754life
12-03-2007, 02:12 AM
Time For Shannahan To Resign, Get Out! Take All Your Bad Coaches With You, Then We Can Build Through The Draft>........

Circle Orange
12-03-2007, 02:23 AM
Martz sucked as a HC, but always gets kudos when talking about his work...not just as an OC, but working with young QBs.

As a HC he was as bad at game management as Herm.

As for Shanahan, he's still one of the best out there.

Martz is even more power mad than Shanny... http://scosoft.com/s/e/7237116b.gif in a week's time he'd be overruling Mastermind from the booth above.