Which second-year Bronco has performed the best through the season's first four games [Archive] - The Orange Mane

sgbfan

10-04-2007, 12:55 AM

Since Cutler is still technically a rookie, he shouldn't be considered.

Marshall over Elvis by a whisker.

How is Cutler technically a rookie? Does that mean that Marshall is technically a rookie since he missed the first few games. Does that also mean that Phillip Rivers is a second year player since he sat his first two years?

That makes no sense. . .

Hogan11

10-04-2007, 01:00 AM

How is Cutler technically a rookie? Does that mean that Marshall is technically a rookie since he missed the first few games. Does that also mean that Phillip Rivers is a second year player since he sat his first two years?

That makes no sense. . .

Minus his couple of starts late last season, he didn't play....thus, this is really his rookie season. If you wanna call him a "second year vet" or some such nonsense, then that's up to you but he's really still a rookie out there without a full season played under his belt.

broncofan2438

10-04-2007, 01:04 AM

The Doooooom has done well, but clutch catches have given the Broncos two wins, that is due to Marshall

sgbfan

10-04-2007, 01:27 AM

Minus his couple of starts late last season, he didn't play....thus, this is really his rookie season. If you wanna call him a "second year vet" or some such nonsense, then that's up to you but he's really still a rookie out there without a full season played under his belt.

He's gone through 2 training camps and weekly practices. He is as much a second year player as anybody else who was drafted in 2006(and more so than Hixon). And how many people would you consider "second year 'vets' "?

I guess if your right then, maybe Cutler can win ROY this year!

Hogan11

10-04-2007, 01:35 AM

He's gone through 2 training camps and weekly practices. He is as much a second year player as anybody else who was drafted in 2006(and more so than Hixon). And how many people would you consider "second year 'vets' "?

I guess if your right then, maybe Cutler can win ROY this year!

Maybe....because actual gametime experience is worlds away from training camps and weekly practices.

Kaylore

10-04-2007, 02:14 AM

Killericon

10-04-2007, 02:20 AM

Kaylore

10-04-2007, 02:24 AM

If Cutler's a rookie, then what is Moss?

I guess since he started the first game, he counts. Those games those other guys played were mystical "non-games". ;D

Hogan11

10-04-2007, 06:07 AM

Nope, I'm going for Cutler too. QB is harder to play than those other positions and the curve is steeper. I mean by Hogan's logic, Dumervil and Marshall also "don't count" as second year players as they didn't play the entire season last season either.

Dumervil, I believe, played in every game last season as a rookie.....but far be it for me to argue the point with you. All three stepped onto the field at some point last season, so now they're "veterans" I guess......whatever.

chrisp

10-04-2007, 09:00 AM

I'm going for Dumervil by a whisker, purely becuase he had to overcome so much negativity and people saying he couldn't do it.

To be fair, all three still have question marks remaining but all three seem to have won over the fans regardless. In that respect Dumervil is more impressive as we were all sold on the other two by the end of last season but the debate over Dumervil raged through the offseason.

He hasn't even taken any flak for our crappy run defense despite the fact that the big question mark over him was could he play the run?

Rock Chalk

10-04-2007, 09:11 AM

Minus his couple of starts late last season, he didn't play....thus, this is really his rookie season. If you wanna call him a "second year vet" or some such nonsense, then that's up to you but he's really still a rookie out there without a full season played under his belt.

He is a second year player. While he didnt play his first year, he did get the opportunity to study the playbook, watch first hand in game film the type of defenses in teh NFL and had some playing time.

Rookies do not have any benefits of the sort.

He is not a rookie. He is young and stupid, but not a rookie.

I went with Doom. MArshall is having a great year, but Doom is the only guy on our front four really doing **** and he stands out more than Marshall does next to Walker.

TotallyScrewed

10-04-2007, 10:16 AM

It's not even close...Marshall. Next poll.

If Marshall is not tearing it up, this board continues its melt-down over WR's and then lack of a third and no depth and on and on. Marshall has made that yesterday's news.

Nobody said...Who's playing the tougher position? Or Who's the only one at their position who's playing well? I'm a big-time Cutler fan and I think he'll be the best QB we've ever seen, but he's making lots of mistakes right now. Nobody knows how well or poorly Doom is playing against the run but the opposition can run anywhere/anytime they want. Aside from one play (a slant) what hasn't Marshall done well?? He catches everything. He has excellent YAC. He blocks well and delivers the blindside as well as anybody. Marshall is a standout with Walker, Stokely and Graham getting theirs. That's not slouch company folks.

It's not even close. Marshall.

sgbfan

10-04-2007, 10:17 AM

Dooms is great. It is great how he can get to the quarterback, but he still doesn't stop the run that well. He is more one dimentional with areas to improve in. Marshall can catch, block, run after the catch, and get open. He has me most convinced so far. I believe that they all can be Pro-Bowlers in the futere, but Marshall has a shot this year. He is on pace for 1160 yards and 8 TD's and most of the yards came in the first 3 weeks with Walker in, meaning its not all because he took Walkers place as the #1 target.

Broncomutt

10-04-2007, 10:33 AM

All 3 are reasons to hope for the future. But IMO Marshall is becoming a true threat. I'll not be surprised to see him make the pro-bowl this year.

frerottenextelway

10-04-2007, 11:17 AM

I love Elvis, but he only starts on a handful of teams. Only a handful of teams that Cutler or Marshall don't start on.

This answer is clearly A or C.

Beantown Bronco

10-04-2007, 11:28 AM

He is on pace for 1160 yards and 8 TD's and most of the yards came in the first 3 weeks with Walker in, meaning its not all because he took Walkers place as the #1 target.

This is what has me a little concerned if Walker doesn't bounce back from his injury. The longer he's out, the longer Marshall has to face double teams and opponent's best defenders.....his numbers will most definitely suffer as a result.

chawknz

10-04-2007, 11:30 AM

I love me some Jay, but I am really on board the Marshall bandwagon. The guy will be a star.

Beantown Bronco

10-04-2007, 11:36 AM

I love Elvis, but he only starts on a handful of teams. Only a handful of teams that Cutler or Marshall don't start on.
This answer is clearly A or C.

If by "handful" you mean around 10, then I agree with you.

Hogan11

10-04-2007, 11:52 AM

Marshall is a standout with Walker, Stokely and Graham getting theirs. That's not slouch company folks.

I love how Stokely getting thrown at maybe three times a game (if he's lucky) constitues "getting his share" .....he's so underused in this offense, it's criminal.

Hogan11

10-04-2007, 11:58 AM

He is a second year player. While he didnt play his first year, he did get the opportunity to study the playbook, watch first hand in game film the type of defenses in teh NFL and had some playing time.

Rookies do not have any benefits of the sort.

He is not a rookie. He is young and stupid, but not a rookie.

I went with Doom. MArshall is having a great year, but Doom is the only guy on our front four really doing **** and he stands out more than Marshall does next to Walker.

I never considered his small about of playing time to be enough experience to elevate him from the rookie status, nor do I see studying the playbook and watching film as subsitutes for actual game time experience and execution.....guess I just see it differently.

Garcia Bronco

10-04-2007, 12:03 PM

100% Brandon Marshall, 20Rec, 290Yds, 14.5Avg, 2TD

Elvis Dummervil, 10Tack, 4Sack, 1 FF, 1Int

Jay Cutler, 82.8 rating, 5TD(1 Ru), 926 Yds

Beantown Bronco

10-04-2007, 12:07 PM

100% Brandon Marshall, 20Rec, 290Yds, 14.5Avg, 2TD

Elvis Dummervil, 10Tack, 4Sack, 1 FF, 1Int

Let's pretend each of these guys keep this pace up all season long. Would you (those who voted for Marshall) still be more impressed by a receiver that gets 80 receptions for 1,100 yards and 8 TDs (almost identical to Lelie's numbers in 2004, by the way)....or would 16 sacks, 4 forced fumbles and 4 INTs steal your vote?

Garcia Bronco

10-04-2007, 12:10 PM

Let's pretend each of these guys keep this pace up all season long. Would you (those who voted for Marshall) still be more impressed by a receiver that gets 80 receptions for 1,100 yards and 8 TDs (almost identical to Lelie's numbers in 2004, by the way)....or would 16 sacks, 4 forced fumbles and 4 INTs steal your vote?

I'd be hard pressed to call one more so than the other. From a league perspective though...Dumervil becomes a DPOY candidate with those numbers. Marshall not so much.

That One Guy

10-04-2007, 12:16 PM

So if consistently playing/starting is a stipulation for the rookie year... maybe we need another poll to establish Nate Jackson's rookie year. It should come within the next 5 years, I'd say...

frerottenextelway

10-04-2007, 12:28 PM

If by "handful" you mean around 10, then I agree with you.

About that, lets count 'em up.

Does
BUF
NYJ
MIA
BAL
CLE
JAX
KC
OAK
WAS
CHI
ATL
MIN
CAR
AZ
STL

Doesn't
NE
PIT
CIN
INDI
DAL
GB
NO
SEA

Those are the clear cut ones imo. Then you got the other ones, like SF. Cutler is clearly better than Smith, but would they bench a young Smith? That's just getting into pointless in petty discussion so I'll leave it at what I have.

Now do DOOMs and see where he stacks up.

I love DOOMs, but he's a situational player that gets noticed when he makes a play, but doesn't get noticed on the plays he doesn't. There's only going to be a few teams where he's an every down player.

Rock Chalk

10-04-2007, 12:48 PM

I never considered his small about of playing time to be enough experience to elevate him from the rookie status, nor do I see studying the playbook and watching film as subsitutes for actual game time experience and execution.....guess I just see it differently.

Well none of them played the whole season.

Doesnt matter how you see it.

How many years has all three of them been in the league? 2. Thats right, 2. 2nd year players. Not veterans, not rookies, but 2nd year players. You dont have to agree, that is fact and indisputable. If you see it differently you are wrong period.

chaz

10-04-2007, 12:53 PM

the two fourth round picks are both studs...cutler is good but as a first round pick you're expected to be. The two second day guys have been very pleasant surprises

Drek

10-04-2007, 12:56 PM

Dumervil.

Marshall has been much more exciting, but he's also had some significant mistakes (like Cutler's pick last sunday, that was on him).

Same with Cutler, more exciting but far from mistake free.

Dumervil on the other hand is doing everything we could expect form him and then some. He creates pressure, that much we needed from him, but he's also improving as a run stopper and has really helped pick up the DE play despite losing Ekuban for the year.

By the end of the season I'd probably feel totally different because I think Dumervil is closer to his ceiling than Marshall and Cutler (by a long stretch). Those two will get it together and will be the core of our offense for the forseeable future.

Bladerunner

10-04-2007, 12:59 PM

Let's pretend each of these guys keep this pace up all season long. Would you (those who voted for Marshall) still be more impressed by a receiver that gets 80 receptions for 1,100 yards and 8 TDs (almost identical to Lelie's numbers in 2004, by the way)....or would 16 sacks, 4 forced fumbles and 4 INTs steal your vote?

Bingo. This is exactly why I voted Doom.

I think Marshall will become more dominant, and eventually Cutler will be the Broncos MVP, but through 4 games, Dumervil has been the most productive 2nd year Bronco.

BlaK-Argentina

10-04-2007, 01:01 PM

Marshall has been much more exciting, but he's also had some significant mistakes (like Cutler's pick last sunday, that was on him).

That would be ONE significant mistake and even that one is debatable as I believe both Jay and Brandon share the blame for that pick.
To me, it's Marshall without a question. A 4th round pick that looks as good as him is a very very pleasant surprise.
Cutler isn't there yet, but he will be great IMO.
And Doom, well, I love him as much as the next guy but he's not playing better than Marshall IMO.

fontaine

10-04-2007, 01:49 PM

Just to be different I'm going to go with the Ginger Assasin:

Erik Pears!

;D

TotallyScrewed

10-04-2007, 11:54 PM

I love how Stokely getting thrown at maybe three times a game (if he's lucky) constitues "getting his share" .....he's so underused in this offense, it's criminal.

Brandon Marshall, 20Rec, 290Yds, 14.5Avg, 2TD. And I know I've seen several more balls thrown his way that he either missed or missed him. The point is he's seeing more than three tosses a game. Underutilized...hardly.

BroncoBuff

10-05-2007, 04:47 AM

All 3 are incredible ... and btw: don't anybody break an ankle hopping off the Cutler bandwagon.

TheReverend

10-05-2007, 08:09 AM

Have to go with Jay considering the learning curve is so much steeper. If you leave it relative to position I think Elvis.

Hogan11

10-05-2007, 11:51 AM

Brandon Marshall, 20Rec, 290Yds, 14.5Avg, 2TD. And I know I've seen several more balls thrown his way that he either missed or missed him. The point is he's seeing more than three tosses a game. Underutilized...hardly.

I was talking about Brandon Stokley, not Marshall....and if you're arguing that Stokley isn't underused in this offense, then you're just plain wrong.

This isn't some Darius Watts no hands guy we're talking about here. Look at the Man's stats....he's averaging a whopping 2 receptions a game....far below what he saw in Indy where he was surrounded by more talented WR's.

Jay's problems with checking down on his WR's is a large part of that lack of production, something I'm sure he'll develop more fully as time goes on...but for right now, the figures speak for themselves...he's underused and that's putting it mildly.

frerottenextelway

10-05-2007, 04:12 PM

Northman

10-05-2007, 04:31 PM

It is tough. Brandon has been huge and i think with all the problems on defense Elvis hasnt gotten his credit due. Doom to me has played his ass off with little to no help from the rest of the line. Brandon would be the sexy pick but im going to go with Elvis. The guy is a go getter.

Hogan11

10-05-2007, 05:15 PM

People keep saying Jay has a problem checking down. The dude is completing 65% of his passes (Elway's *career* high was 63%).

You don't get a 65% comp% by forcing a zillion passes deep. Seriously, wtf you kids want?

Seriously, Jay could go 24 for 28 for 250 and the first post on here would be about his 4 incompletions.

Laughable....this is the "defend to the death" mentality that's responsible for totally ignoring his mistakes. It's "Baileyism" at it's finest. Look at the WR stats and tell me he doesn't lock into his WR's and checks down, you can't....not with a straight face anyways. Jay is nothing but a lot of potential with a strong arm at the moment, the rest will come in time but he's nowhere near realizing his potential just yet.

frerottenextelway

10-05-2007, 07:27 PM

Laughable....this is the "defend to the death" mentality that's responsible for totally ignoring his mistakes.

Nonsense. There's way more of a "cutler can do no right" than a "cutler can do no wrong" mentality on here, it's the in thing. The majority has become a cross between drunken Yankee fans who love/hate players on a pitch by pitch basis, and a Woody Paige who likes to hear himself talk.

Look at the WR stats and tell me he doesn't lock into his WR's and checks down, you can't....not with a straight face anyways.

I'm not sure of the point, but for statistical reference

Receptions
20 - Brandon Marshall
19 - Javon Walker
11 - Brandon Stokely
8 - Dan Graham
5 - Selvin Young
5 - Travis Henry
4 - Cecil Sapp
2 - Nate Jackson
1 - Mike Bell

This is supposed to prove your point???

---

Look, there's a small handful of plays he had this year that were bad. And another that weren't bad, but should've made a different read. But to pretend like he's not playing good ball out there overall, or isn't ever checking down is retarded. The dude is completing 65% of his passes. You don't do that by forcing footballs play in and play out.

TotallyScrewed

10-05-2007, 07:33 PM

I guess I can't read Hogan. You're right on the Brandon Stokely point. He's not getting the ball and Jay has missed some wide open plays. Hopefully, that's just part of the learning process and will come around. Since Walker is out this week, Brandon Stokely certainly will have more opportunities. My point is that I don't think Stokely isn't getting chances because of some dark side issue...Jay and Stokes just aren't on the same page.