Shanahan's 4th down call

[Popps]

Don't worry about it. He did the right thing. D couldn't even get in the way all day long. Putting the hands in the offense's hands was exactly the right thing to do. Graham just didn't do his job.

[RhymesayersDU]

Absolutely. I was going to make a poll about this, but our defense was playing like crap and we had no timeouts. His hand was kind of forced on that one.

[dumpy]

Don't worry about it. He did the right thing. D couldn't even get in the way all day long. Putting the hands in the offense's hands was exactly the right thing to do. Graham just didn't do his job.

Of course he did. He plays to win, not to tie. He's not Herm Edwards.

[RhymesayersDU]

Now if we're going to talk 4th downs, let's talk about the one earlier in the game. A yard and a half out and he wants a QB sneak? Hated that call. And I know maybe part of that is hindsight, but I only like that play if it's literally inches. That was definitely not inches.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Don't worry about it. He did the right thing. D couldn't even get in the way all day long. Putting the hands in the offense's hands was exactly the right thing to do. Graham just didn't do his job.Absolutely the right call, I love reading all the whiner bandwagon fans commenting on it though.

[rugbythug]

I agree it was a good call good throw and poor catch

[Atwater His Ass]

Poor call in that situation. You punt there and push them back. However, that was a perfectly thrown ball and Graham dropped it.

[Kaylore]

It wasn't only a good call, it was the right call. Too bad Graham can't catch. This was the first game I really missed Tony Scheffler.

[tsiguy96]

that was a perfect call, they had already had possession of the ball for 3/4 of the game and we couldnt stop the run, they would have ran teh clock out or scored again if we didnt do it.

[TheDave]

Now if we're going to talk 4th downs, let's talk about the one earlier in the game. A yard and a half out and he wants a QB sneak? Hated that call. And I know maybe part of that is hindsight, but I only like that play if it's literally inches. That was definitely not inches.

I agree... that was the 4th down call that had me scratching my head. The other one had to happen. No time outs and an inability to stop anything left him no choice.

[telluride]

Good, ballsy call. Great throw. Graham blew it. Game started badly via Graham (blame idiot Nate Jackson), and ended badly via Graham (blame Graham). But there's more than enough blame to go around today Here's one sh%$list:

Bates
'Dinger
O'Brien
Hixon
Gold, DJ Williams, Shoate
Nate Jackson

[Rulon Velvet Jones]

4th down in the 4th quarter was a fine call. Graham catches that and we're not even talking about it.

Now, the QB sneak on 4th earlier in the game - who didn't see that one coming? How about some trickery down there if we can't simply punch it in? The direct snap to the RB? The option? Fake timeout play? Hell, anything but that sneak up the middle. Everyone and their mother knew it was coming.

[MileHighMagic]

No question...good call. We couldn't even come close to stopping them. I am officially worried about the run defense.

[bloodsunday]

It was a fine call and Cutler executed.... just Graham failed.

[hades]

When was Cutler's last bootleg? Maybe that on the 4th and goal?

[bpc]

The only question I have about a 4th down call was spreading the field wide early in the 4th and running a sneak into a 4-2 with one of the smallest DL's taking on some of the bigger DL's in the NFL.

That was stupid.

Besides that, Shanahan was stuck couldn't do much different then he did. The defense raped the whole team along with stupid TO's from Young and Hixon.

[sgbfan]

I hate QB sneaks on the goal line, especially after a time out when you give the bigger defensive line time to rest. Let Cutler get out and make a play. I have no problem with them going for it, thats one of the things I love about Shanahan, hes got balls. 2 timeouts wasted to get no points. . .

[maven]

Now if we're going to talk 4th downs, let's talk about the one earlier in the game. A yard and a half out and he wants a QB sneak? Hated that call. And I know maybe part of that is hindsight, but I only like that play if it's literally inches. That was definitely not inches.

The pitchout to the backside(which was the fake) was there for a 1st down and possibly a TD.

One thing I know. A qb sneak against a beefed up jags front with our dinky line. Stupid.

[Moon§hiner]

Made me wish we still had Hape.

[maven]

It wasn't only a good call, it was the right call. Too bad Graham can't catch. This was the first game I really missed Tony Scheffler.

For sure.

Scheff makes that catch. I remember Graham just dropping stupid passes over the years with the Patriots. But yes, Cutler needs his go to man Scheff back in a big way.

[cabronco]

Anything but a qb sneak. We needed more than a yard, roll out, pitch it, run it . Thats the worse playcall Ive seen in a loong time, and it was after a time out nonetheless. They couldnt of figured something better, I guess not.

[maven]

There's a reason Watson was brought in to catch the balls, and Graham to block.

Now that I've seen the play, arrgggghhhhh. Where's f'n SCHEF!!!

[MileHighMagic]

Did Javon even suit up today? My God!

[SonOfLe-loLang]

Javon was up against Mathis, so im cool with him having an off day. I can also assume that the game planned for Marshall (which seemed to work). Shanahan's 4th down call on the goalline (the cutler sneak) was unforgivable. Thats a 4th and inches call, c'mon. We wasted a time out for that?

As for the other 4th down, its a nice calculated risk. Have no problems with it, not sure why Randy Cross and Dick Enberg were so baffled.

[Northman]

Don't worry about it. He did the right thing. D couldn't even get in the way all day long. Putting the hands in the offense's hands was exactly the right thing to do. Graham just didn't do his job.

Agreed.

[elsid13]

That call I didn't have a problem with. But there were OC calls that just made my head freaking spin. WE GOT LUCKY we were in the game.

[NYBronco]

I would like to have seen a no huddle or even a quick snap in either or both of these situations.

[Cito Pelon]

If I remember right, on that 4th down sneak, 62 actually stopped Cutler. 62, Myers had actually made a crease and Cut was ready to get through it despite some guys getting after his legs, and then 62 suddenly came back into the crease going back upfield.

Whatever, just reliving a nightmare.

Ah, WTH, you win some, you lose some, you wreck some.

[Triplelefthook]

i agree with most people here that the questionable call was the 4th and 1 1/2 with a QB sneak call, and that came after two timeouts. the 4th and 6 was a first down if Graham does what he should have.

unreal, graham is unhappy about his role in new england because he doesnt get the opportunity to get the ball thrown his way.......

champ had a bad day today also, i don't understand how he lost williams in the back of the end zone... or how he didn't explode to the ball better when it was thrown his way, i thought there were a couple balls that he would havve picked off last year.

[bronco militia]

shanny made the right call in the 4th

but shanny blew it earlier on the 4th down and goal and should have kicked the FG after burning two TO's in a row.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

shanny made the right call in the 4th

but shanny blew it earlier on the 4th down and goal and should have kicked the FG after burning two TO's in a row.He should have rolled Cutler out and thrown in the endzone if he couldn't run it in.

[Kaylore]

Did Javon even suit up today? My God!

Rashean Mathis has that affect on people. If he didn't play in J-ville he would be mentioned with Bailey, McCalister, D-Hall, etc.

[RINGLEADER]

With 3 timeouts it would have been a stupid call. With 0 timeouts it was the correct call. Look at it this way -- if you punt from your own endzone most of the time you'll end up with your opponent at what, mid-field? Receiver should have caught the ball and you wouldn't have this discussion.

That said, I'm glad he dropped it. The Broncos are overrated though so it didn't surprise me.

[lazarus4444]

Finally a thread with sanity. Yes, the 4th and 5 was a classic gutsy call and it was because our defense didn't show up. Our special teams was HORRIBLE as usual but our offense was there trying to pull it out. This team needs to come together in all phases of the game and they will be dangerous. I think they surprise us at Indy next week.

[Broncobiv]

Look at it this way -- if you punt from your own endzone most of the time you'll end up with your opponent at what, mid-field?
It's Sour Bunz! He would've booted it to the Jags 25!

[Garcia Bronco]

The only thing that was going to help us was 7 points

[Taco John]

I still think it was a mistake, but certainly a forgivable one considering the way the D was playing. I would have rather seen us back the Jags up, regardless of how the D was playing, though.

[Rock Chalk]

It was a good call. Shanahan obviously knew our defense was comprised of a man named Champ and his 10 bitches. Graham makes that catch this thread doesnt exist. He didnt, but it was the best call. Nothing wrong with the play other than our bazillion dollar TE cant catch.

[Bladerunner]

all i can do is echo...I'd have taken the points in the 3rd with a field goal, because you need a defensive stop regardless of whether your score 3, 7 or 0, so take the points and see if they step up...

the pass on 4th in the 4th quarter was an obvious call to make, with no Time Outs, the Broncos had few real options...

[Rohirrim]

IMO, the 4th down call was the only option. The Sneak was a massive brain fart. I was really expecting a bootleg on that one.

[elsid13]

I wonder on the QB sneak if that was call at the line by Cutler based on what he thought he saw the defense line attempting to do.

[BroncoBuff]

Did Javon even suit up today? My God!
Yeah, like Le-Lo said, it was Rashean Mathis....

Today's game was the WORST COACHED football games I've seen in a long time - both sides of the ball. The TO management was a joke, Graham sat out much of the game, Del Rio's botched spike cost the Jags 4 points and maybe a win ... I could go on and on.

But the MAIN FAULT: If you're gonna go on 4th and 1 ... why is Daniel Grahanm on the bench? And for that mater, why was Graham missing thru the middle of today's game? He's the best blocker on the team ... he looked like a man against boys going in motion all game last week destroying the raiders end containment ... and yet on 4th and 1 (and much of the middle of the game - was he hurt?) Graham was nowhere to be seen.

You gotta love Chris Myers giving it his all, and he'll get better, but in such a critical moment, why run behind your worst drive-blocker?

WATCH THE 4th DOWN PLAY AGAIN: ... Nalen, Lepsis and even Myers had decent drive, it was the end containment that penetrated and tackled/pulled down Jay FROM BEHIND! ... watch it again! Daniel Graham in motion to that side wouldda sealed off the DE/Will, and Jay might've pushed to the 1st down, and this we would have WON THE GAME!


WATCH THE 4th DOWN PLAY AGAIN: The DE/Will came around the weakside and tackled/yanked Jay down from behind. WHERE WAS GRAHAM?

[rovolution]

I was really expecting a bootleg on that one.

and no offense, but im sure Del rio and company were thinking the same thing too. Those big DTs are the reason we didnt convert on that 4th down.

Stroud is just a freaking monster in the middle



BTW, i doubt anyone cares, but this was the first Broncos game i ever attended in person, and i had a blast despite the loss!!! I was all the way up in the last row in section 540, but the view of the field was incredible!!!

I was jumping up and down screaming like a maniac, ( i came up with a new nickname for Sam Adams, the "Meat Man") and this couple looked at me like i was insane.

Hey, does this look like a golf tournament? its freaking Broncos football man!!! Get the hell up out of your seats and cheer your lungs out!!!!

I was kind of disappointed by the lack of fan enthusiasm, even early on in the game. i was expecting more...

[Elway777]

One of the worst calls I ever seen made. You punt the ball and hope your defence stops them. Shanahan won last week game with the timeout but made a terrible call in this game. If Granhm would of caught the ball then Shanahan would of been a genius but it still would of been the wrong call.

[bdv]

Regardless of the outcome: I loved that call! Shanahan knows when to go for it on 4th. The only people I was screaming at were those stupid announcers on CBS after it didn't work. Shanahan knew, the way they were running all over us, that that was almost certainly our last shot. That was four down territory. Touchdown or bust.

[bdv]

Now if we're going to talk 4th downs, let's talk about the one earlier in the game. A yard and a half out and he wants a QB sneak?

Ah, yeah... That was bad. Really bad... :spit:

[OrangeShadow]

right call,didnt work out. shake it off next week is another week

[dsmoot]

Don't worry about it. He did the right thing. D couldn't even get in the way all day long. Putting the hands in the offense's hands was exactly the right thing to do. Graham just didn't do his job.

Agree with Shanahan on call.

He (Graham) didn't do his job? Neither did the lineman who gave up the sack on a previous play. It shouldn't have to come down to 4th down. There is so much blame to go around, don't talk about 1 dropped ball.

[TheChamp24]

I don't mind the 4th and 5 call. Like others said, if our new $30 million TE could catch we wouldn't be discussing this.
The 4th and 1 1/2 play was HORRIBLE. I don't mind going for it because thats all you need, but the call was dreadful. You gotta take risks in the game to win. I was fully expecting a playaction bootleg or something. Especially since we had 3 WR's in that play, no TE's.

And we basically gift wrapped 9 points today for the Jaguars by giving them the ball twice inside the 20 and once at our 40. And what do you know, we lose by 9.

Our players need to get the mental aspect of the game into them. Play hard, execute and always strive for perfection. I saw a lot of guys not executing and playing hard.

[Rohirrim]

We got some good dogs, but they're not all hooked up to the sled yet. ;D

[Malcontent]

Woof!

[no-pseudo-fan]

The 4th and goal play killed us. We win if we make that one. We left this game out there. Fumbles!!!!! We got pushed around, and we still should have won this game. We are young and we will get better.

[Atlas]

Don't worry about it. He did the right thing. D couldn't even get in the way all day long. Putting the hands in the offense's hands was exactly the right thing to do. Graham just didn't do his job.

I thought that was the greatest call ever. Denver had no timeouts and the defense was not going to stop the jags. It was the right call it was a great call and it should have worked. Graham dropped the ****ing ball.... loser!!!!

[TheChamp24]

So why isn't there a thread saying Graham should be cut? Seriously, where was he this game? $30 million for a TE who can't catch. Wonderful.
And we gave the Jagwads 9 points there, I hope they liked that win, it was practically gift wrapped for them.

[sirhcyennek81]

I think besides the poor play of the defense, we had opportunities to win, especially late. Our linebackers need to tackle. It says something when Dre Bly had a better tackle then any linebacker today. The DLine did their job, the linebackers did not, and kept playing out of ****ing position. Price for new players and a new scheme. Oh well. On to next week.


:Broncos:

[Wes Mantooth]

In the end, the turnovers killed us. Not this horrendous D.

[DarkHorse30]

I don't like the call 4th down call. With 4 minutes left, you have to put it on the defense to stop them cold. I don't like the idea of expecting the defense not to stop anybody.

Remember that Jags scored 13 points on Denver today when they got the ball on the 50, OUR 18 (thanks to Hixon's hands of steel) and our 4.....thanks to that last call. How is it all on the defense?

Look at it this way...Denver's D only allowed 6 points on two drives that STARTED in the redzone. Aside from Denver's inability to stop the run (which is a big problem this season), they were holding the Jags to minimal scoring in spite of 3 giveaways.

IMO, Shanahan's 4th and 5 non-punt was a mistake. The time for winning the game was in the 3rd quarter after adjusting the gameplan, not in the last 5 minutes (contrary to our MO this year).

[TheChamp24]

Man, I wish Graham would've held onto that damn ball so we wouldn't have so many people complaining about going for it.
We had to, Jaguars would've ran at least 2 minutes off the clock, and we probably would've been backed up inside the 20 off of a punt with 2 minutes remaining and 0 timeouts.

[baja]

I don't like the call 4th down call. With 4 minutes left, you have to put it on the defense to stop them cold. I don't like the idea of expecting the defense not to stop anybody.

Remember that Jags scored 13 points on Denver today when they got the ball on the 50, OUR 18 (thanks to Hixon's hands of steel) and our 4.....thanks to that last call. How is it all on the defense?

Look at it this way...Denver's D only allowed 6 points on two drives that STARTED in the redzone. Aside from Denver's inability to stop the run (which is a big problem this season), they were holding the Jags to minimal scoring in spite of 3 giveaways.

IMO, Shanahan's 4th and 5 non-punt was a mistake. <b>The time for winning the game was in the 3rd quarter after adjusting the gameplan,</b> not in the last 5 minutes (contrary to our MO this year).

Thanks for pointing that point out. That would reflect good game day coaching.

[Hulamau]

The worst part of the 4th down QB sneak .. beside the damn call for it in the first place from a yard and a half after a time out ... was that we tried to trick them with no tight ends on the field either .. three WRs and no one to block the dude who stopped Cutler (And tweaked JCs ankle in the process).

That being said this season is FAR from over and we should be very competitve once the offense starts ironing out some of these mistakes and the run D tightens even just a little ... doubtful its a Super Bowl year but I'm not ruling anything out. I see solid progress in the second half of the season ( assuming we don't have too many key injuries).

Cutler played a good enough game to win .. but a for a few bad calls and turnovers like the Selvin & Hixon fumbles and Graham drop (might as well have been a turnover) .. and that with having a lot less opportunities due to the ass wiping run game of the Jags on our gassed D.

Over all some good things and a few glaring weaknesses that can be addressed .. at least improved considerably over the coming weeks.

And we could wind up being the perfect trap game for the Colts this week if we can get Lynch back and Fox perhaps too so that Manning doesn't abuse Shoate quite so much and if we can tighten up just enough to get off on third down occasionally in the first half and keep the score close ... and Addai doesn't run up and down the field and gas our D again in the first half....

Anyway, there is still plenty of chance for the playoffs even though its conceivable we are a game or two under .500 after the Steeler game. LB is a key concern in the offseason.

[Bronco Yoda]

I agree with the last 4th down call. Hated the QB sneak earlier in the game.

btw, Shanahan addressed the TO's taken saying the communication gear was in and out all 2nd half.

[Los Broncos]

Don't worry about it. He did the right thing. D couldn't even get in the way all day long. Putting the hands in the offense's hands was exactly the right thing to do. Graham just didn't do his job.

Graham dropping that ball was very disappointing.

If he makes that catch we have a chance, play better next week.

[maher_tyler]

Do you think he was trying to send the D a message by going for it like that??

[BroncoBuff]

Now if we're going to talk 4th downs, let's talk about the one earlier in the game. A yard and a half out and he wants a QB sneak?
And the problem was we ran to the weakside ... as I pointed out, the real stop was made by their Will/DE who tackled/pulled Jay from behind. If Dan Graham had been coming in motion from the strong side to the weak, that corner wouldda been sealed.

We'll prolly never know, but my gut says Jay made a seat-of-the-pants audible/change of the called play.

From SI.com:
The Broncos also had their troubles in the red zone. They burned their final two timeouts late in the third quarter before going for it on fourth-and-1 from the 3. Jay Cutler , however, was stuffed by Daryl Smith on a keeper in which the Broncos had no tight ends and three wide receivers.

Cutler didn't speak with the media afterward because he was getting treatment for what the team said was a ''mild ankle sprain.''
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/scoreboards/2007/09/23/2562_viewcast_recap.html

[Hulamau]

.

I was jumping up and down screaming like a maniac, ( i came up with a new nickname for Sam Adams, the "Meat Man") and this couple looked at me like i was insane.

No doubt they are right :-) ... great that you had a good time though even in a loss.

[BroncoBuff]

That being said this season is FAR from over ...
Yeah, we're alone in first place, right? :~ohyah!:

Not for long though ... with this run defense, the Colts could beat us with Jim Sorgi.

[Smiling Assassin27]

Poor call in that situation. You punt there and push them back. However, that was a perfectly thrown ball and Graham dropped it.

Short, sweet, and right. Granted, no time outs and cutler couldn't have thrown it any better. But in that situation, punt the ball and maybe you get a turnover or defensive stop.

[maven]

IMO, the 4th down call was the only option. The Sneak was a massive brain fart. I was really expecting a bootleg on that one.

Two timeouts and a QB sneak. Looking back & it was an ultra uber massive brain fart.

Hilarious!

[Old Dude]

No question...good call. We couldn't even come close to stopping them. I am officially worried about the run defense.

Same here. The sad fact is that the Broncos had a better chance of making a 4th and long than the defense had of holding Jax to a three and out.

Our run defense is officially a disaster and we are going to continue getting pounded unless and until drastic changes are made.

[broncsyanks]

it was a good call. the jags were kicking our a$$es in the trenches IMHO. our special ed teams could not keep them in there own end of the field and we could not stop the run. plain and simple with 4minutes left. it was a great call. i still cant believe ALL THE HYPE ON THIS DANIEL GRAHAM!@!
i havent seen him do anything special to date. i know he is a colorado native but that doesnt make him that good. i think alexander and scheffler are a better tandem. use granham as a MLB. he cant be worse then DJ was yesterday.

[bronco_diesel]

i thought both calls were the right call.

the 4th and 1 - at the time the broncos were down 20-7 with 3 minutes left in the 3rd. they hadn't shown they could stop the run or pass. i felt that they had to put 7 on the board or flip the field position. if they put 3 up, and give the ball back - they are still down two scores. the way the d was playing jax could have easily worn down the clock and been up 27-10 with very little time in the game.

the problem i have with the 4th and 1 call is the play call. that was horrible.

the other play call was the right call as well - graham just needs to catch that.

i think the thing most noticable though, is as bad as they played, with cutler there was still hope. i think if graham makes that catch, they pull another one out - oh well - but it is nice to have that hope when behind.

[maven]

If Plummer was in there down 20-7, there's no hope at all. But, with Cutler Denver will always have a chance.

[ol number 7]

Agreed.

Good call !!! Maybe this week we will see Champ line up as a wideout and give 'em something to think about. On the Cutler sneak thought thats what we got Henry for ?? Use to work with TD eh? Run the option if you want Cutler to keep. Gotta start packing for Indy. I'll suggest that to Shanny when I see him.

[snowtrx]

Hey, does this look like a golf tournament? its freaking Broncos football man!!! Get the hell up out of your seats and cheer your lungs out!!!!

I was kind of disappointed by the lack of fan enthusiasm, even early on in the game. i was expecting more...

Rep. Its unbaleivable how many times I am told to sit down during big moments of the game. Makes me ****ing sick. Club level can suck my ass. Anyone sitting where real fans sit want to trade season tix with my company? Please! Thats the one and only thing that makes me jealouse of KC fans. Their entire stadium stands for the entire game against us Broncos. WTF ???

[FantomForce]

Totally the right call!

[snowtrx]

Everyone has nailed the issues with the QB sneak on 4th and a long 1, but no one has pointed out the play before. I am so sick of these cute little runs on 3rd down in the red-zone (as D is compressed). If you want to run it, then put it in the hands of the runner you paid to get us the tough yards. While where at it, try a power formation with our new expensive blocking machine TE in there. STOP BEING SO ****ING CUTE SHANNY, YOUR OUTSMARTING YOURSELF!

[RaiderH8r]

Man, I wish Graham would've held onto that damn ball so we wouldn't have so many people complaining about going for it.
We had to, Jaguars would've ran at least 2 minutes off the clock, and we probably would've been backed up inside the 20 off of a punt with 2 minutes remaining and 0 timeouts.

Bing! Nailed it.

For a guy who came in begging for catches he surely didn't do himself any favors dropping that one. If we wanted skillet mits we would have kept Kennison.