Good Thing we fired Coyer.... [Archive] - The Orange Mane

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bloodsunday

09-23-2007, 05:11 PM

DomCasual

09-23-2007, 05:17 PM

We probably shouldn't even bother playing.

We're doomed! Doomed, I tell you!

Odysseus

09-23-2007, 05:19 PM

You are just mad that your adopt a Bronco Kyle Johnson got cut. HA!

Broncos are setting up a come from behind dramatic at home win....sort of.

BMF Bronco

09-23-2007, 05:19 PM

am i insane to think that there is still another half to play?!

bloodsunday

09-23-2007, 05:24 PM

This game is not over... that's not the point. The point is that this team allowed a one-handed QB that could barely managed a hand off last week to force OT. We are allowing 156 YPG rushing and have given up 109 in one-half to the most one-dimensional offense in the NFL. And the few times we managed to force a 3rd down? The QB has all damn day to throw.

What I am saying is that those of you who criticized Coyer need to step up. This defense has more problems than its coordinator.

Any team can line up and run the ball right down our throats. And so far we have only played Jayvee teams. The next 3 are big boys.

Odysseus

09-23-2007, 05:26 PM

I'm sure glad Brett got his record today....at Chargers expense
Donavan McNabb was beating down those scary Lions today.
Coyer's Tampa Bay Bucs are 3-0

Pseudofool

09-23-2007, 05:27 PM

The Jags had two short fields to work with, and converted too many third downs and a fourth down. On the first scouring drive the Denfense did quite well in the redzone despite allowing the touchdown; what did it take the Jags eleven plays to get in?

Popps

09-23-2007, 05:34 PM

The Jags had two short fields to work with,

Big deal. We should be able to stop teams in the red zone from time to time.
The ONLY reason it's not 21-7 is that Jax had a brain fart.

Pseudofool

09-23-2007, 05:38 PM

Big deal. We should be able to stop teams in the red zone from time to time.
The ONLY reason it's not 21-7 is that Jax had a brain fart.

When the defense is on the field 3/4ths the time, they aren't going to be effective. You can't simply eliminate special team and offensive miscues when evaluating the defense.

bloodsunday

09-23-2007, 05:45 PM

When the defense is on the field 3/4ths the time, they aren't going to be effective. You can't simply eliminate special team and offensive miscues when evaluating the defense.

They are on the field 3/4 of the time by their own doing!!! You can't allow 63% Third down conversions and 110 rushing yards in a half and expect to be on the sidelines. They have to make more plays.

Pseudofool

09-23-2007, 05:54 PM

They are on the field 3/4 of the time by their own doing!!! You can't allow 63% Third down conversions and 110 rushing yards per game and expect to be on the sidelines. They have to make more plays.
The Third down percentage is unacceptable, but that just isn't the whole story (despite some here ignoring fumbles and special team misplays), when the team is on the field more they are likely to be less effective the longer they are out there. And as for big plays, there's one for Dumervil...

Popps

09-23-2007, 06:09 PM

When the defense is on the field 3/4ths the time, they aren't going to be effective. You can't simply eliminate special team and offensive miscues when evaluating the defense.

Wrong.

Our defense couldn't get THEMSELVES off the field the entire first half.

Good defenses stop drives, no matter where they start.

It's no one else's fault but their own.

bmanhas

09-23-2007, 06:22 PM

I'm sure glad Brett got his record today....at Chargers expense
Donavan McNabb was beating down those scary Lions today.
Coyer's Tampa Bay Bucs are 3-0

LOL

Yeah I would credit a 3-0 start to the Defensive Line coach, forget Monte Kiffin who's done it on defense year in and year out. Forget Gruden who's doing something on offense finally, it must be Coyer, the defensive line coach.

Popps

09-23-2007, 06:28 PM

Sir Mawn

09-23-2007, 06:39 PM

... this defense looks SOOOOO Much better!

It's time to admit it. The cupboard is bare on D. Years of poor drafts have caught up to us.

Indy and San Diego are gonna hang 40 on us... that is if they don't just hog the ball for 45 mintues by running every damn down.

This is why I rarely post here anymore. People here are more concerned about the "I told you so" posts than the actual team.

Kaylore

09-23-2007, 07:02 PM

bloodsunday

09-23-2007, 07:05 PM

This is why I rarely post here anymore. People here are more concerned about the "I told you so" posts than the actual team.

It's not an "I told you so" post. I want people to understand that this organization is going side-ways. It hurts to say, but its the truth. Despite all the money spent and all the off-season moves we are no closer today than we were last season to winning a Super Bowl.

The model of how to make it work is right there for us to copy. Indy, Pittsburgh, San Diego, and New England rarely make flashy off-season moves. They draft well and find a way to retain the players that fit their teams the best. Instead we wait until a position is in critical need and then force a draft to be all about one position, hoping for strength in numbers. Teams used to copy Denver's plan on how to build a team, its time we start to get a clue. Our model of buidling through FA is not working any more. We are over-paying for players (Gerrard Warren, IHOP, etc..) that are not bringing us closer.

Shanahan has reached a pivotal point in his career where losing hurts more than the joy of winning (by his own admission). He's been to the top of the mountain and has nothing left to play for but Super Bowls. The problem is that its that short-sighted thinking that is forcing these moves. He wants every season to be about winning the Super Bowl -- which is admirable -- but sometimes you have to show patience. Otherwise one season of not winning the Super Bowl leads to a string of frustrating seasons. The organizations that are at the top of the mountain right now have a disciplined plan that they follow and understood that it takes some time (and some failures) to build a championship franchise. Its not bought in one off-season. Carrying that expectation of Super Bowl every year is a heavy burden for a team that looks like a fringe play-off team with a Soph QB.

I want to see this team take a more measured, disciplined approach to building the team. They simply must quit with these expensive FA, especially on the DL, and begin to upgrade both the OL and DL with young talent before we will once again be successful. I have no issue with either Ian Gold or Daniel Graham, but they paid a ton of money for both. And frankly I don't see either of them producing to the level of their contracts. Worse Ian Gold displaced DJ Williams at a spot that is more natural for him than MLB.

The good news is that it looks like we found our QB, now we need to build a team around him.

GoBroncos0838

09-23-2007, 07:08 PM

Is it me, or does Bates have a read and react defense... NO blitzes... all conservative all the time... We have too much talent to struggle like this!

bloodsunday

09-23-2007, 07:17 PM

So, who's fault is this drive? Our O comes out and sparks the stadium, and our D just lays down.

Good god, they're running a high school playbook at us. Run, pass to TE, run, pass to TE, run.

Pathetic.

Yeah that was the worst part about it. That's not a dynamic offense that abused us today. I expect Indy to burn up the field on us, but not J-Ville.

dsmoot

09-23-2007, 07:26 PM

Our defense is predicated on the LB's filling holes at the line of scrimmage. We don't make contact until 3 yds downfield. It is the weak point right now. Our backers are being caught away from the hole, no anticipation, no read and react. We were simply manhandled today. Time of possession was dominating. When players with numbers in the 20's are making the tackles, it says what is happening up front.

Ray Finkle

09-23-2007, 07:36 PM

This is why I rarely post here anymore. People here are more concerned about the "I told you so" posts than the actual team.

Sir Mawn is right....you come out after every loss with all the answers....

bloodsunday

09-23-2007, 07:43 PM

Sir Mawn is right....you come out after every loss with all the answers....

The same answer I've been shouting since I arrived on this board. Its just everyone wants to drink the cool-aid and believe we can fix this team with one or two acquisitions.

I felt that way even when this team was having success in week 1 and week 2. It's not like these defensive problems just cropped up today.

Ray Finkle

09-23-2007, 07:45 PM

The same answer I've been shouting since I arrived on this board. Its just everyone wants to drink the cool-aid and believe we can fix this team with one or two acquisitions.

I felt that way even when this team was having success in week 1 and week 2. It's not like these defensive problems just cropped up today.

Mawn and I are far from drinking cool aid. With you, the sky is falling after every loss and the other team lost the game, not the broncos winning the game, with every win. You are just a bitter Broncos fan....

bloodsunday

09-23-2007, 08:01 PM

Mawn and I are far from drinking cool aid. With you, the sky is falling after every loss and the other team lost the game, not the broncos winning the game, with every win. You are just a bitter Broncos fan....

Whatever. I never said the sky is falling. I said its time to build this team using a more sound philosophy (e.g. the draft). And I say its time to put the Super Bowl talk aside for a little while and admit that this team needs time and carrying that burden every year is too heavy. Hell everyone seemed okay with scrapping the playoffs last year because they didn't think the team could win with Jake at the helm anyway. And I am a bitter fan? I'd rather see my team make the playoffs then give up like that.

Yeah I get a little fired up when we lose. But its more frustrating when its the same cause every damn year. I am frustrated because this team sets its sights on the Super Bowl every year, yet the aren't making any real progress. You can't win the Super Bowl when you don't even make the playoffs. Your odds of winning the Super Bowl aren't very good when you are winning a division crown every 8 years!

If the standard is a realistic chance to win the Super Bowl, why even measure this team? If you use Shanahan's standard of measuring this team, the sky must be falling.

Odysseus

09-23-2007, 08:33 PM

Bronx33

09-23-2007, 08:37 PM

Naw. He's just bitter. It has nothing to do with the Broncos. He probably beats his cat and kicks his wife.

The B**** BURNED THE WATER! (THE WATER!)

bloodsunday

09-23-2007, 08:41 PM

clearly getting constructive now. bunch of weenies taking shots at my family... that's low rent.

listopencil

09-23-2007, 09:46 PM

Let's replace our QB and fire our DC again. Maybe that'll fix it. At least we finally drafted D-Line. We need to go MLB with our #1 pick. We need another first day pick on the D line, this time a DT. Get a Safety in the third. After that they can **** around with project WR's and injured RB's if they want to.

It's not all doom and gloom. We already have the pieces on Offense. I honestly think this group of players on O can score at any time against anyone. They are still working out the kinks but it's coming together. But this D is killing us. They need to get their heads out of their asses and get their **** together or we aren't going to the playoffs this year.

Cito Pelon

09-23-2007, 10:06 PM

Mawn and I are far from drinking cool aid. With you, the sky is falling after every loss and the other team lost the game, not the broncos winning the game, with every win. You are just a bitter Broncos fan....

WTF? I don't recall you and Mawn posting much lately, but now you show up just to call people Chicken Littles? With all due respect, seems silly to show up just to call people Chicken Littles.

Ray Finkle

09-23-2007, 10:19 PM

Hey Cito....I am not calling everyone that, just bloodsunday. He always finds the turd spec in the piece of gold....

Kaylore

09-23-2007, 10:24 PM

clearly getting constructive now. bunch of weenies taking shots at my family... that's low rent.

So is our run defense!

http://recollectionbooks.com/bleed/images/BB/groucho2.jpg

Merlin

09-23-2007, 10:46 PM

The future is looking well for the Broncos. He started the same crapy thread in 2005 after our Giants loss (I think). The season was over and the Broncos stink...Yet we finished 13-3 had a playoff win, went to the AFC championship game, and with a little luck might have seen the SB. If he brings back that season I'll be happy. Come on BS, you have it in you...cry some more, and with feeling this time.

Odysseus

09-24-2007, 10:53 AM

So is our run defense!

http://recollectionbooks.com/bleed/images/BB/groucho2.jpg

You are doing that fish thing again? You really are good at this dude. :thumbs:

Broncos4tw

09-24-2007, 11:38 AM

Mediator12

09-24-2007, 11:44 AM

I agree with the fans who think our defense is too passive. I think we have the personnel, but if that is going to be our denfensive "scheme" of the future, ditch this DC. We are not going to win any championships with our no pressure scheme. What in the hell are they thinking? When they finally let them loose, they do well. But they wait until the fourth to do it. Do it the entire game! Stop being so passive. Our playcalling on both sides of the ball is just crappy at the moment.

Why does everyone buy into the defensive personnel? I mean DEN has now had 40+ DL on the active roster over the last four years. They have employed six different schemes in the last five seasons as Coyer blew up his scheme in 2005 when they went to the AFCC game in week eight versus PHI becuase the DL could not get a pass rush with or without blitzing. The only above average guys they have playing right now are in the secondary for goodness sake, and it takes a dirtload of Smoke an mirrors to win with an awful front four.

Where is this misguided trust in the personnel coming from?

~Crash~

09-24-2007, 12:05 PM

This is why I rarely post here anymore. People here are more concerned about the "I told you so" posts than the actual team.

Ditto

24champ

09-24-2007, 12:09 PM

This is why I rarely post here anymore. People here are more concerned about the "I told you so" posts than the actual team.

Just look at the DJ thread, people piling on him as if he was the only one that played like ****. Then you have dip****s starting threads like "Even Bailey got beat like a mule" garbage. Pathetic.

BroncoStampede

09-24-2007, 12:11 PM

All we have to do is blitz more and be more aggressive against the run. Put 8 or 9 guys in there to stop the run if you have to, rely on Bailey and Bly to make plays.

I think our pass defense is one of the best in the league. We have the perfect defense to use when we have the lead. We have a tun of pass rushers and fast linebackers. Keeping games close where the other team will just run it all day is a bad strategy for us.

We need to get big leads and force the other teams to pass.

maven

09-24-2007, 12:19 PM

Yeah that was the worst part about it. That's not a dynamic offense that abused us today. I expect Indy to burn up the field on us, but not J-Ville.

Yep, the Jags O was as basic as it gets. Run, run, run, pass to TE, run like Popps said. That's why the Defense has some serious problems & the team will struggle this year.

Sir Mawn

09-28-2007, 01:40 AM

It's not an "I told you so" post. I want people to understand that this organization is going side-ways. It hurts to say, but its the truth. Despite all the money spent and all the off-season moves we are no closer today than we were last season to winning a Super Bowl.

The model of how to make it work is right there for us to copy. Indy, Pittsburgh, San Diego, and New England rarely make flashy off-season moves. They draft well and find a way to retain the players that fit their teams the best. Instead we wait until a position is in critical need and then force a draft to be all about one position, hoping for strength in numbers. Teams used to copy Denver's plan on how to build a team, its time we start to get a clue. Our model of buidling through FA is not working any more. We are over-paying for players (Gerrard Warren, IHOP, etc..) that are not bringing us closer.

Shanahan has reached a pivotal point in his career where losing hurts more than the joy of winning (by his own admission). He's been to the top of the mountain and has nothing left to play for but Super Bowls. The problem is that its that short-sighted thinking that is forcing these moves. He wants every season to be about winning the Super Bowl -- which is admirable -- but sometimes you have to show patience. Otherwise one season of not winning the Super Bowl leads to a string of frustrating seasons. The organizations that are at the top of the mountain right now have a disciplined plan that they follow and understood that it takes some time (and some failures) to build a championship franchise. Its not bought in one off-season. Carrying that expectation of Super Bowl every year is a heavy burden for a team that looks like a fringe play-off team with a Soph QB.

I want to see this team take a more measured, disciplined approach to building the team. They simply must quit with these expensive FA, especially on the DL, and begin to upgrade both the OL and DL with young talent before we will once again be successful. I have no issue with either Ian Gold or Daniel Graham, but they paid a ton of money for both. And frankly I don't see either of them producing to the level of their contracts. Worse Ian Gold displaced DJ Williams at a spot that is more natural for him than MLB.

The good news is that it looks like we found our QB, now we need to build a team around him.

Sunday, you talk about patience and building through the draft. Of addressing the lines with young talent. I think we've addressed this in the offseason by revamping our D-line through the draft and in previous offseasons we've been awfully aggressive on draft day targeting key players to cornerstone the team.

We must also not disregard the good free agent additions we've made: Stokley has been lights out, Walker (a trade but in essence it's the same thing) has been great for us so far, Travis Henry fits our system perfectly....
Not to mention that the Patriots have had some pricey free agent additions as of late-.

I just don't think it's that easy.... Copying whatever it is Pittsburgh is doing or NE or SD..... 2 seasons ago we were a game away from the big game.... Today, in our QB's second season we will be competitive again (bank on it).

It's my estimation that we ARE building through the draft now and that we are being patient (we would've signed a veteran QB instead of Cutler if we weren't). But we're also not disregarding picking up players through FA and taking chances (like all teams do).