Whitlock: Favre passing Elway, injustice.

[jayman_37]

8. It's not quite as bad as Barry Bonds surpassing Hank Aaron, but Brett Favre slipping past John Elway on the all-time career victories list strikes me as an injustice.


Brett Favre has had a nice career, but for now the list of great QBs in the last three decades starts with John Elway. ( / Getty Images)

It's not that I think Favre did anything unethical to get the record. I just don't think Favre is in the same class as Elway as a winner. Favre is going to retire with most of the prominent quarterback records. He's the new Dan Marino, a fantasy-league, first-ballot Hall of Famer.

But when I think of all-time great winners, Elway, Joe Montana and Tom Brady top that list.

If Packers fans were honest with themselves, they'd acknowledge that Reggie White was the most important Packer during Green Bay's two Favre-quarterbacked Super Bowl appearances.

For the record, the five best quarterbacks of the last 30 years: 1. Elway; 2. Montana; 3. Manning; 4. Brady; 5. Marino/Favre.

Until Brady and/or Manning appear in five Super Bowls, I won't even entertain the idea of Elway stepping down as No. 1. In reality, Elway is the Thurgood Marshall of all-time quarterbacks; he has a lifetime position and can only be removed at his own request

[PatsWin2002]

I'm a believer that if the Jags didn't knock out Denver to allow the Pats to get to that SB vs Green Bay that Denver would've won and we'd be talking about Favre a whole different way.

[TheReverend]

I don't remember writing this... but it's exactly what I would say?

[Stormontheplains]

I am a huge whitlock fan now. What a great guy, who obviously knows a qb when he see's one.

[Paladin]

Believe me, there are many of us around here who remember that day, and it is the reason why the jagwads will not win a ball game in Denver, ever again. Shanahan plays that game for the team whenever the jagwads are in town. Michael Dean Perry is the most despised DT in Broncos' history....

There is no doubt in my mind the Broncos would have gone to the Bowl and could have won.....

[Garcia Bronco]

Maybe, but then maybe John calls it a career the next season. :(

[7 4ever]

As a Bronco homer, I agree that Favre and the duke should not even be put in the same sentence, but I've always liked Favre, he's got this taste of old style QBs that do not exist in this league anymore(Elway, Fouts, Montana, Kelly, etc.), plus records exist to be to be broken. I am fine with no. 4 having the record, we all know who the GOAT is anyway.

[Kaylore]

Where's the Link?

[Man-Goblin]

Where's the Link?

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7245984

http://msn.foxsports.com/id/7246840_36_2.jpg

[fdf]

Believe me, there are many of us around here who remember that day, and it is the reason why the jagwads will not win a ball game in Denver, ever again. Shanahan plays that game for the team whenever the jagwads are in town. Michael Dean Perry is the most despised DT in Broncos' history....

There is no doubt in my mind the Broncos would have gone to the Bowl and could have won.....

Actually, I think that team was the best Broncos team ever, despite the loss to Jacksonville. We ran into a one-time, best performance by any quarterback ever, game out of Brunell and everything that could go right for Jacksonville did, that day.

You are right though. Absent that game, we had a threepeat.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

More proof that individual stats are almost meaningless in the game of football except to fantasy geeks

[c_lazy_r]

Flattering piece by a KC guy.

[bronco militia]

Fatlock Is Da Man!!

Ha Ha

[Broncos123]

Took our team to 5 superbowls. The first three by himself. No other QB can claim that fact. He is the Greatest, just glad I was able to watch his whole carreer. I do not think Favre compares, he is a good QB but not in Elways class.

[telluride]

Greg Robinson sucks.

[NFLBRONCO]

Farve has played in a division that SUCKED his whole career so he racked up easy wins. This is the only reason he passed John in wins. In Elways class LOL in his and Madden's wet dream only.

[TomServo]

i always stated im a favre fan (only after Elway retired). but i no longer think hes anywhere close to elways stature anymore.
as if longevity is a skill. playing hurt may say something about his toughness but not being injured is all about luck.
eveyone gave him a pass for playing like rex grossman the last 3-4 years because he had a bad team. but check me if im wrong, phillips and reeves last year coaching and even shanahans first year, elway didnt have anything to work with either. and he looked nothing like favre these last few seasons.

[Garcia Bronco]

Farve has played in a division that SUCKED his whole career so he racked up easy wins. This is the only reason he passed John in wins. In Elways class LOL in his and Madden's wet dream only.

Well to be fair....the AFC West wasn't exactly lighting it up during the middle of John's career either.
The Chargers and Seahawks were typically doormats

[Odysseus]

I'm a believer that if the Jags didn't knock out Denver to allow the Pats to get to that SB vs Green Bay that Denver would've won and we'd be talking about Favre a whole different way.

Exactly! :strong:

[jsco70]

I was married on January 4th, 1997 (she couldn't care less about football). The ceremony began at 5pm MDT. The entire wedding party was in the back room watching the game as the priest waited at the alter. The fact the wedding was late infuriated my wife and mother in law. The fact Denver lost infuriated everyone else.

As one would expect, the marriage ended in divorce in 2001.

[NYBronco]

Greg Robinson sucks.

Just ask the Syracuse Orangemen and they will agree.

[Houshyamama]

I was married on January 4th, 1997 (she couldn't care less about football). The ceremony began at 5pm MDT. The entire wedding party was in the back room watching the game as the priest waited at the alter. The fact the wedding was late infuriated my wife and mother in law. The fact Denver lost infuriated everyone else.

As one would expect, the marriage ended in divorce in 2001.

LOL ......... I mean, sorry to hear that man.



Ha!

[shakenbake]

It is only temporary, if mellon head stays up right for the next few years he will pass everyone one in every major statistic expect for interceptions. Farve is going to own that one for a long time.

[-Slap-]

Believe me, there are many of us around here who remember that day, and it is the reason why the jagwads will not win a ball game in Denver, ever again. Shanahan plays that game for the team whenever the jagwads are in town. Michael Dean Perry is the most despised DT in Broncos' history....

There is no doubt in my mind the Broncos would have gone to the Bowl and could have won.....

Blaming Michael Dean Perry for that loss is ridiculous.

Ever heard of Ted Gregory or Daryl Gardener?

[TomServo]

Blaming Michael Dean Perry for that loss is ridiculous.
every game has a few critical plays, michael dean fatbutts inability to run, run off the field when the D finally got a stop was one of those plays.

[Atlas]

It really doesn't matter people onnly remember who is number one and in 5 years every passing record is going to be Manning's

[Dempsey Dog]

Blaming Michael Dean Perry for that loss is ridiculous.

Ever heard of Ted Gregory or Daryl Gardener?

Slap, I understand what you are saying. It is a team game and the fact Brunell was running all over making plays, was not just MDP's fault.

I am just not sure I understand how Gregory & Gardner factor into it. One was a 1988 Reeves draftee who was long gone (well gone before he was even here) before the game, and the other came several years (2003) after that loss to the Jagwads.

[maven]

ALSO from the article

3. The Kansas City Chiefs might just be awful enough to embarrass general manager/president Carl Peterson into stepping aside after a 19-year reign of error.

Peterson is the longest-tenured GM in football and perhaps in professional sports. The Chiefs haven't won a playoff game since 1993. Deceased owner Lamar Hunt had been loyal to Peterson because Peterson (and Schottenheimer) helped revitalize the franchise in the early 1990s.

It's obvious now that the organization needs new blood. Peterson has created so many enemies in Kansas City with his bullying tactics with the media that the reputation of the organization has suffered locally in recent years.

Well, it appears Peterson has put together the worst offensive team in football and paired that unit with a head coach, Herm Edwards, who loves a good field goal. It's a recipe for disaster and embarrassment. Kansas City's 20-10 loss to the Bears was an offensive-coaching nightmare, complete with third-and-short prayer passes to tiny, underachieving receiver Samie Parker.


It's unlikely that owner Clark Hunt will fire Peterson, but Peterson might resign after a 4-12 season.

hahhaaha

[Mountain Bronco]

I really like Whitlock's articles, now this is a great statement. To see a KC guy list Elway as number 1 is awesome.

Favre is not even in the same class as Elway. Neither is Marino in my opinion.

[Binkythefrog]

Actually, I think that team was the best Broncos team ever, despite the loss to Jacksonville. We ran into a one-time, best performance by any quarterback ever, game out of Brunell and everything that could go right for Jacksonville did, that day.

You are right though. Absent that game, we had a threepeat.

I was at the game at the old Mile High, and I've never heard a quieter crowd after Brunell's 40 something yard run threw the Broncos defense.

But even after that game, seeing the way the Broncos reacted, I knew that they were gonna kick ass the next year.

[bronclvr]

Why is it that when John was here he never got his due (even during the SuperBowl Years)? In the last few Years everyone has finally figured out (outside of Denver that is) that he was the best (when we knew all along?)-

[Northman]

It really doesn't matter people onnly remember who is number one and in 5 years every passing record is going to be Manning's


Wont matter to some people including myself. Manning can have ever record in the book and i still would take Elway any day of the week. Growing up watching John play is just so above and beyond anything Manning could ever hope to accomplish as a NFL QB.

[Maximus]

8. It's not quite as bad as Barry Bonds surpassing Hank Aaron, but Brett Favre slipping past John Elway on the all-time career victories list strikes me as an injustice.


Brett Favre has had a nice career, but for now the list of great QBs in the last three decades starts with John Elway. ( / Getty Images)

It's not that I think Favre did anything unethical to get the record. I just don't think Favre is in the same class as Elway as a winner. Favre is going to retire with most of the prominent quarterback records. He's the new Dan Marino, a fantasy-league, first-ballot Hall of Famer.

But when I think of all-time great winners, Elway, Joe Montana and Tom Brady top that list.

If Packers fans were honest with themselves, they'd acknowledge that Reggie White was the most important Packer during Green Bay's two Favre-quarterbacked Super Bowl appearances.

For the record, the five best quarterbacks of the last 30 years: 1. Elway; 2. Montana; 3. Manning; 4. Brady; 5. Marino/Favre.

Until Brady and/or Manning appear in five Super Bowls, I won't even entertain the idea of Elway stepping down as No. 1. In reality, Elway is the Thurgood Marshall of all-time quarterbacks; he has a lifetime position and can only be removed at his own request

Whitlock is nothing more than a hype artist. He should be banned from all keyboards, pens, pencils or anything that can be used to spew his ignorance.

[Master___Pain]

Whitlock is nothing more than a hype artist. He should be banned from all keyboards, pens, pencils or anything that can be used to spew his ignorance.

I called a time out and this post must be done over....my guess he stoinks it

[Northman]

Whitlock is nothing more than a hype artist. He should be banned from all keyboards, pens, pencils or anything that can be used to spew his ignorance.

Is that because your boys Stabler and Plunkett didnt make the top 5? LOL

[Jason in LA]

I still don't like the guy.

[epicSocialism4tw]

I still don't like the guy.

Unlce Tom.

[BroncoBuff]

Fatlock Is Da Man!!

Ha Ha

Actually, yes ... not just the Elway "truth," but some other nice ones in the same column:

10 Truths: O.J. saga heading for re-runs
Jason Whitlock
FOXSports.com, Updated 3 hours ago


10. When O.J. Simpson beats the latest criminal charges brought against him, I hope members of the TV media acknowledge their role in setting the Juice free.
Geraldo Rivera and many of the other O.J. groupies are in the process of poisoning the jury pool with their wild, on-camera celebrations and unfair, biased discussion of the case.

For the record, I am not an O.J. sympathizer. Not only do I think he got away with murder, but O.J.'s post-acquittal public golf life — including the writing of an "If I Did It" book — have been plenty offensive too.

Having said that, I'm not above being repulsed by the media's obsession with O.J. It appears Simpson's most recent legal troubles have given the TV networks all the excuse they need for another spat of around-the-clock O.J. coverage and a reliving of the 1995 trial.

And, most disappointing, the same lies are being retold. No one has the courage to point out that Marcia Clark's and Chris Darden's gross incompetence left the first jury with only one option, acquittal.


9. Vince Young's immaturity cost the Titans the Indianapolis game.

Just before halftime, Young scrambled for seven yards, setting up third and 3 at the Tennessee 44. However, the play was wiped out when Young was flagged for tossing the ball into the gut of an Indy defensive back. The unsportsmanlike conduct penalty made it third and 18 at the Tennessee 29.

Vince Young is struggling to control his emotions. He wants to be one of the boys. Remember the training-camp fight? He threw a punch at a helmeted teammate. The margin for error for a quarterback is tiny. In the Colts game, Young made the kind of error that Manning would never make and it burned the Titans.

I'm not sold on Vince Young as a franchise quarterback.


**BroncoBuff Edit** - what about the time VY left the hotel to sleep at home ???


8. It's not quite as bad as Barry Bonds surpassing Hank Aaron, but Brett Favre slipping past John Elway on the all-time career victories list strikes me as an injustice.

It's not that I think Favre did anything unethical to get the record. I just don't think Favre is in the same class as Elway as a winner. Favre is going to retire with most of the prominent quarterback records. He's the new Dan Marino, a fantasy-league, first-ballot Hall of Famer.

But when I think of all-time great winners, Elway, Joe Montana and Tom Brady top that list.

If Packers fans were honest with themselves, they'd acknowledge that Reggie White was the most important Packer during Green Bay's two Favre-quarterbacked Super Bowl appearances.

For the record, the five best quarterbacks of the last 30 years: 1. Elway; 2. Montana; 3. Manning; 4. Brady; 5. Marino/Favre.

Until Brady and/or Manning appear in five Super Bowls, I won't even entertain the idea of Elway stepping down as No. 1. In reality, Elway is the Thurgood Marshall of all-time quarterbacks; he has a lifetime position and can only be removed at his own request.


7. Since Donovan McNabb took the time to clarify his position about black quarterbacks, let me do the same.

The point of my Wednesday column was that all quarterbacks are scrutinized harshly but that black QBs carry the extra burden of having their performance judged through racial lenses by black and white people.


6. OK, Isiah Thomas has no connection to football, but his sexual-harassment trial is just too rich to avoid.

Zeke played the Snoop Dogg card and basically said it's acceptable for a black man to call a black woman a b**** because it doesn't mean the same as when a white man calls a black woman a b****.

This is exactly why I took a pro-Imus position during the Rutgers fiasco. We, black folks, need to examine our thought process on black-on-black disrespect. We think it's appropriate and harmless. It's not. It contributes to an overall lack of respect.


5. The San Diego Chargers weren't very good in their Week 1 victory over the Chicago Bears, either. Norv Turner is already failing in San Diego, and his struggles were relatively easy to predict.

Marty Schottenheimer is like the guy or girl you lost your virginity to. You never get over him. It doesn't matter that you now realize the sex wasn't any good. Marty makes football fans and football players believe anything is possible. When you inevitably dump him in hopes of finding a coach who can really go all the way, you fall into a depression that affects your performance.

The Browns and the Chiefs have never recovered from post-Marty stress disorder. The Chargers just might miss the playoffs.


4. I'm a big Byron Leftwich supporter. I don't like the move to Atlanta.

It's going to be a minute before the Falcons emotionally dig out from the Michael Vick mess. There's no guarantee Bobby Petrino is going to be a successful NFL head coach. Leftwich needed to get into a stable environment where he could win and regain his confidence.


3. The Kansas City Chiefs might just be awful enough to embarrass general manager/president Carl Peterson into stepping aside after a 19-year reign of error.

Peterson is the longest-tenured GM in football and perhaps in professional sports. The Chiefs haven't won a playoff game since 1993. Deceased owner Lamar Hunt had been loyal to Peterson because Peterson (and Schottenheimer) helped revitalize the franchise in the early 1990s.

It's obvious now that the organization needs new blood. Peterson has created so many enemies in Kansas City with his bullying tactics with the media that the reputation of the organization has suffered locally in recent years.

Well, it appears Peterson has put together the worst offensive team in football and paired that unit with a head coach, Herm Edwards, who loves a good field goal. It's a recipe for disaster and embarrassment. Kansas City's 20-10 loss to the Bears was an offensive-coaching nightmare, complete with third-and-short prayer passes to tiny, underachieving receiver Samie Parker.

It's unlikely that owner Clark Hunt will fire Peterson, but Peterson might resign after a 4-12 season.


2. It's official: Charlie Weis is a worse coach than Romeo Crennel.

There had been considerable debate about which Bill Belichick-created fraud would secure a victory first in 2007. Romeo, a defensive guru, did it with a 51-45 victory over the Bengals. Meanwhile, The Great Weis Hype, an offensive guru, got shut out by Michigan.


1. You know what, I believe in the Detroit Lions, and I still believe in the Fire Millen Movement.

Detroit is the sports capital of the world. The Tigers, Red Wings and Pistons have all been excellent during the past decade. It was only a matter of time before the Lions joined in all of the winning. The Lions' success has nothing to do with Matt Millen. It's just Detroit karma.


I edited some out - http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7245984?MSNHPHMA

[chawknz]

Here's something a Myspace friend (Mile High MoJoe) posted ..

Brett Favre, after living a full life, died.

When he got to heaven, God was showing him around. They came to a modest little house with a faded Packers flag in the window. "This house is yours for eternity, Brett," said God.

"This is very special; not everyone gets a house up here." Brett felt special, indeed, and walked up to his house. On his way up the porch, he noticed another house just around the corner. It was a 3-story mansion with a Blue and Orange sidewalk, a 50 foot tall flagpole with an enormous Broncos logo flag, and in every window and a huge bronze Stallion in the front yard!

Brett looked at God and said, "God, I'm not trying to be ungrateful, but I have a question. I was an all-pro QB, I won a Super Bowl, and I was even the MVP."

God said "So what do you want to know, Brett?" "Well, why does John Elway get a better house than me?" God chuckled and said "Brett, that's not John Elway's house, it's mine.

[Jetmeck]

I'm a believer that if the Jags didn't knock out Denver to allow the Pats to get to that SB vs Green Bay that Denver would've won and we'd be talking about Favre a whole different way.


Exactly right !

[ZONA]

Didn't Bradshaw win 4? Where's the love for that guy? If Montana is talked about as one of the greatest, why not Terry? Neither was going to impress you with their pure great arms, they just found a way to do what needed to be done, win the superbowl..........alot.

John is the greatest of all time though, no disputing that. No QB did more with little surrounding talent as John did. Then when the talent was there, bam bam. He's a winner, a leader, record holder and much much more.

[Circle Orange]

Favre has always been a personal favorite with many of the major commentators. Bradshaw in particular, who couldn't wait to bray endlessly about the "Win" record on Fox. And of course Madden, who did his best to make John sound like a decrepit 80 year old in his last game. Yet Favre, who has been living on reputation for ten years gets endless gloss and excuses. It's the team, blah, blah. He's a gunslinger, blah, blah. If Marino or Elway went on in their career this way, all we'd be hearing is how they've hung on too long. Marino was clearly done at the end and we were reminded constantly. Elway was only a superbowl champion because of TD. On and on...yet Favre is portrayed as still being the "guy". Yeah, a few people say he's hung on, but the commentators just LOVE him. I don't get it. This little three game pop has everyone on his jock again. I've nothing against the guy, but he clearly hung around for the money, and to get all the records. Well, whoopie...Marino needed an extra season to get within one of Elway. how many seasons has Favre played? And again, why is this record only regular season wins? Playoff wins don't count now, but Super Bowl titles do? I think this cherrypicking is to make guys look better.

I also think his status is helped by him being the last 'old' qb that won a superbowl...he's given a status he never had when the other greats were active. I like #4s press conference, where he did the humble bit nicely. Glad to know the records will mean something at one point but not now, Brett...especially since you hung on to get them. Popularity isn't performance. Shoot, the game where he tied Elway he didn't even SCORE on offense...this is why I get tired of people picking and choosing stats and reasons to support certain guys they like.

Whitlock has always supported Elway, btw. And I guarantee you Elway always ranked higher among the players in the NFL than he ever did with the so called 'experts' and talking heads. Including jealous commentators.

[Spider]

I'm a believer that if the Jags didn't knock out Denver to allow the Pats to get to that SB vs Green Bay that Denver would've won and we'd be talking about Favre a whole different way.

Fat ass Michale Dean Perry (spit)

[Rock Chalk]

I'm a believer that if the Jags didn't knock out Denver to allow the Pats to get to that SB vs Green Bay that Denver would've won and we'd be talking about Favre a whole different way.

That doesnt change the fact that you root for the Cheatriots but its nice of you to try to get on our good side again ;D

[Atwater His Ass]

I like Favre, but he should have retired 3-5 seasons ago. He's not in the same class of QB as Elway.

Bradshaw can suck my nuts too. He went on and on and on prior to our first championship about how Elway will never win the big one, doesn't have what it takes, blah blah blah. I hate Bradshaw for that and because he is just a dumbass in general.

[Spider]

every game has a few critical plays, michael dean fatbutts inability to run, run off the field when the D finally got a stop was one of those plays.

yep

[WolfpackGuy]

Favre has gotten a free pass from the media for years. True, he's had a lot of great moments, but some of his bad plays rank right up there in the Plummer Hall of Fame.

[HorseHead]

nice job by Whitlock....

get that man a donut....

[TheChamp24]

I have one question though...
Why do we give QB's wins/losses stat? I don't really think that QB's should have wins/loss records associated with them IMO.

[Spider]

Elway made Denver happy ,Farve made Green Bay happy , Kelly made Buffalo happy ,and Debbie made Dallas happy .........

[BritBronco Maniac]

Slap, I understand what you are saying. It is a team game and the fact Brunell was running all over making plays, was not just MDP's fault.

I am just not sure I understand how Gregory & Gardner factor into it. One was a 1988 Reeves draftee who was long gone (well gone before he was even here) before the game, and the other came several years (2003) after that loss to the Jagwads.

He was making the point that Gregory or Gardner may be more despised than MDP.

Personally MDP was a big reason for that defeat. I remember watching that game, it was the most painful game I have ever watched. After watching them run all over us, we finally get a stop, but than fat a$$ MDP gives up a first down for not running off the field! I have never seen a D so deflated. If we got off the field then, we would have won.

[zdoor]

He was making the point that Gregory or Gardner may be more despised than MDP.

Personally MDP was a big reason for that defeat. I remember watching that game, it was the most painful game I have ever watched. After watching them run all over us, we finally get a stop, but than fat a$$ MDP gives up a first down for not running off the field! I have never seen a D so deflated. If we got off the field then, we would have won.

It's hard to top a first rounder who can't get out of training camp...

[Bronco Billy]

Personally MDP was a big reason for that defeat. I remember watching that game, it was the most painful game I have ever watched. After watching them run all over us, we finally get a stop, but than fat a$$ MDP gives up a first down for not running off the field! I have never seen a D so deflated. If we got off the field then, we would have won.

I still despise him for that and have - right or wrong - always pointed the finger at him for the loss for that very reason. Even though the entire defense was sorry.

I remember Janet Elway's remarks some time later when she said that she always prayed that if the Broncos weren't going to win the Super Bowl, she would rather see us lose before we got there.

[-Slap-]

Slap, I understand what you are saying. It is a team game and the fact Brunell was running all over making plays, was not just MDP's fault.

I am just not sure I understand how Gregory & Gardner factor into it. One was a 1988 Reeves draftee who was long gone (well gone before he was even here) before the game, and the other came several years (2003) after that loss to the Jagwads.

I was answering the other poster who claimed MDP was the "most despised defensive tackle in Broncos history". I thought that was a ridiculous comment because Perry played some solid football for us, even though it came on the backside of his career. I mentioned guys like Gregory and Gardener because they fit the profile of defensive tackles who came through Denver who truly earned the anger of Bronco fans.

I still believe that Red Cashion decided to cash in during his final game as an NFL referee. The number of calls that went against Denver in that game were absolutely ridiculous. Much worse than the screw job Seattle received in the Super Bowl against Pittsburgh. I've been watching football for 35 years and I can't ever remember seeing 12 men on the field called while a player is walking to the sideline. Sure as hell not to extend a drive in a playoff game. That wasn't as blatant as the BS PI call on Torry James brilliant interception, but it was more egregious than when they said TD was stopped short of the goalline when he clearly broke the plane.