Anybody want to revise their thoughts on....

[Atlas]

Reggie Bush over Mario Williams?


I'll be the first to jump. Bush has turned into an overrated RB that doesn't break tackles and can't run on the inside. Williams on the other hand is turning into a very solid DE and the Texans have formed a formiable DL that could be very good for years to come.

[Kaylore]

I think the Texans should have selected Vince Young. In addition to the obvious ticket selling power he has in Houston, can you imagine what Kubiak could have done with him on bootlegs? They would have been able to keep their pick for Schaub too.

It's too early to rule out Bush. Mario Williams needs to do that consitently, but Kubes seems to have turned that team around.

[DivineLegion]

Well both Mario and Okoiye have 2 sacks in two games so...

[no-pseudo-fan]

I have never liked Bush as a NFL RB. He is a 3rd down back, or a slot wr nothing more. Bush doesn't have the heart to run the ball for those ugly 2/3 yard gains.

[Arkansas Bronco]

No never rethought it. I had Williams #1 as well didnt doubt it last year and sure as hell not this year.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

No, never thought a 12-15 carry per game back should be the #1 overall. But I did love how ESPN loved to report that at least a quarter of the teams had Super Mario ranked 1st overall before Houston made their choice, but then freaked out when the Texans decided to take him at that spot.

[TheReverend]

I won't revise, but I'll restate:

Considering this has become the Reggie Bush fight thread Ill copy my post from the other thread to here... llama is right, Reggie makes his money on endorsements and hype, NOT as an incredible football player... because he isnt.

"Actually Id have to say THAT is as ignorant as they come. This is supposed to be a game changing player, who by the way is playing the easiest position for rookies to jump right into, averaging 3 ypc... and you CANT blame that on the offensive line considering Deuce is popping 5 a carry. Yes he has caught some balls against LB match-ups... at this rate he might end up a worse version of Brian Westbrook.
If he's such a threat to score everytime he touches the ball then why, out of 118 touches, has he only scored once (on an UNTOUCHED punt return right up the sideline, mind you)?! Find the average scores of players with 118 touches and youll see that Reggie is FAR below average.
Im no Mario Williams advocate either, given time this whole situation will work out and then we'll know. Until then, Reggie's gonna have to learn he's not so flashy now that he plays with the big boys."

[TheReverend]

That's from Oct last year. Here's a couple threads on the topic then and you can see a few people never boarded the hype train:

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=48345

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=48183

[TheReverend]

I think the Texans should have selected Vince Young. In addition to the obvious ticket selling power he has in Houston, can you imagine what Kubiak could have done with him on bootlegs? They would have been able to keep their pick for Schaub too.

It's too early to rule out Bush. Mario Williams needs to do that consitently, but Kubes seems to have turned that team around.

Apparently they're the fourth richest franchise so not too sure ticket sales are that much of an issue...

[Rock Chalk]

Reggie Bush over Mario Williams?


I'll be the first to jump. Bush has turned into an overrated RB that doesn't break tackles and can't run on the inside. Williams on the other hand is turning into a very solid DE and the Texans have formed a formiable DL that could be very good for years to come.

Exactly what I said would happen before he was drafted. Exactly what I told these stupid ass Texan fans. DEs like Williams just dont land in your lap too often. With inside help from Okoye now, Williams is going to be a serious force defensively for their team. They got some good people in their front seven in Ryans, Williams and Okoye, all first or second year guys.

[cmhargrove]

As stated here, I think the reason Williams is seeing more success is because he has more help this year. Even great players have a hard time standing out on lesser teams. Kubiak has to be sighing some relief that his choices are panning out.

I still believe Reggie Bush is a major impact player, its just that teams have now had a chance to game plan after a season of film. I won't judge his season off the first two weeks.

But, the Saints as a whole have been underperforming, and the Texans have been overperforming. It just feels like the Saints may have peaked last year, and the Texans look to be for real.

Our Sunday night showdown on NFL network isn't looking like much of a cakewalk anymore. Jedi master vs. Padowan (sp?) learner.

[Stormontheplains]

I think the Texans should have selected Vince Young. In addition to the obvious ticket selling power he has in Houston, can you imagine what Kubiak could have done with him on bootlegs? They would have been able to keep their pick for Schaub too.

It's too early to rule out Bush. Mario Williams needs to do that consitently, but Kubes seems to have turned that team around.

I believe Kubiak has seen enough of the Jake Plummer style west coast to not pick VY. One would assume he wanted a pocket passer first, scrambler second.

[Arkansas Bronco]

I found the mock vote by us here last year pretty funny to go back and look at it. http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=39458

[Jason in LA]

It's way too early to say Bush isn't good. It's just two games. LT hasn't done much this year either. But he'll put up well over 1,000 yards. When Barry Sanders went for 2000 yards, I don't think he had 100 yards over the first two weeks. I'm not saying that Bush will run wild and put up monster numbers. Mainly because he is not an every down back. But he'll put up good numbers this year.

[RocBronc]

I would have traded the pick... They could have gotten a ransom from someone who wanted Bush.

[shakenbake]

Reggie Bush in the Norte Dame of pro football. All the hype little results.

[Garcia Bronco]

Honestly...I was suprised he went number 2...IMO he wasn't a top ten pick, but what do I know....

[Rock Chalk]

I would have traded the pick... They could have gotten a ransom from someone who wanted Bush.

They tried, no one wanted to trade up for what they wanted. So they signed Mario because Bush was gonna be a bitch about the money and the owner wanted their pick signed before the draft.

[epicSocialism4tw]

I still think that Houston should have selected Vince Young with that pick.

[Merlin]

I have been critical of VY because I doubted he had the smarts to be a QB in the NFL, and I thought he would not be able to do in the NFL what he did in the Bowl game (NFL is much faster). After watching a few games I'm changing my mind...he is no Mike Vick. He seems to be much smarter (at least game wise), knows when to run, does not panic, not a great arm but good enough, and he makes the players around him better (especially the OL). However, I do think he has a lower ceiling than Cutler (but I thought VY's style of play would help him succeed sooner). VY would have been a great choice, but then again the Texans got a great DE and solid line (Now) and the cost of the QB was not that high if he proves for real. They did ok. I would just like to know where are all the jacka$$es that wanted to trade all our draft choices for Bush (and then again for WR this yr)...absolutely no sense about what the team needs as apposed to what the hype machine is selling.

[RocBronc]

They tried, no one wanted to trade up for what they wanted. So they signed Mario because Bush was gonna be a b**** about the money and the owner wanted their pick signed before the draft.

With the talent available in that draft I still would have traded down for what I could have gotten. I don't think there was a player worth the number one pick. With the amount of money the first pick in the draft gets, he better be worth it.

[bronco militia]

keeping carr and skipping Bush and Young was stupid at the time. Getting Schaub may make up for it.

come on now, mario has destroyed the mighty OL's of the chiefs and Panthers......I'm not that impressed....yet

[400HZ]

I think Payton is trying too hard to set Bush up for success in New Orleans. Deuce goes a few series with 3, 4, 7 yard type runs and then Reggies in and gets 1, -4, 2. His yards per touch average is horrendous. If I was a Saints fan I would be pretty bummed about Bush, especially considering that Addai, Maroney, MJD, and DeAngello Williams all look a lot better.

[bronco militia]

last year, Bush was used as a decoy on many plays....I didn't see much of that against the Colts

[Houshyamama]

I always thought taking Williams was better than taking Bush @ #1. But then again, right now is an easy time to be down on Bush. The kid has freakish ability (obviously). FREAKISH. They will find a way to effectively utilize him, they have to. That game against Fresno State where he alone had over 500 total yds was incredible. Never seen anything like it.

[shakenbake]

I always thought taking Williams was better than taking Bush @ #1. But then again, right now is an easy time to be down on Bush. The kid has freakish ability (obviously). FREAKISH. They will find a way to effectively utilize him, they have to. That game against Fresno State where he alone had over 500 total yds was incredible. Never seen anything like it.

It was against freaking FRESNO STATE!! Did you happen to watch the National Championship that year? You want to talk about domination by a single player in a football game (obviously) against better talent and more on the line, look no further than VY. 200 yards rushing and another 267 passing not bad against USC.

Reggie Bush should go back to being a decoy. He seems to be really good at that.

[Kaylore]

Apparently they're the fourth richest franchise so not too sure ticket sales are that much of an issue...

....Re-read what you just wrote. What kind of logic says "There is a lot of money in this market. No way can we make anymore!"

[TheReverend]

....Re-read what you just wrote. What kind of logic says "There is a lot of money in this market. No way can we make anymore!"

Your original post bases picking Young on "ticket selling power" and then Kubiak and the bootleg next.

Considering they're the fourth richest franchise, obviously "ticket selling power" took a back seat to their decision of what was best for their franchise.

Would you like Denver to draft hype queens that sell tickets and jerseys? Want Portis back?

[Atwater His Ass]

I don't think anyone would dispute that Vick is a freakish athlete as well, and looking at him just as a football player, he was just an average to below-average QB. Manning isn't half the athlete Vick is, but would anyone have taken Vick over Manning to QB their team?

Athleticism is required to play in the league obviously, but isn't the only thing to judge a player on. But that gets kind of lost in the shuffle when people are more concerend with how fast a player can run w/o pads on than what kind of football player he is on the field.

Bush's status as an elite athlete really doesn't mean that much. IMO, he'll never be more than a 10-15 touch per game kind of guy. Will make some plays here and there, and some will be pheominal because of his ability, but he's not going to carry your team to a championship.

[ayjackson]

I always thought that Bush projected to be a Dave Meggett type, not a Barry Sanders. I'd never confirm my ignorance on the matter by posting such drivel, though.

Doh!

[Atwater His Ass]

I think Houston needed to take a QB with that pick. I don't necessarily think Young though. I would have looked at Leinhart or Cutler just because I'm not a fan of athelete/scrambler first, passer second, kind of QB. Now Young could break that mold and be something very special, but that still remains to be seen.

Also, great point that they'd still have that pick they sent for Schaub had they taken QB first. On the other hand, I can also see why they may have been hesitant to do that just coming into/off the Carr debaucle.

Williams was a good pick.

[ØrangeÇrush]

I guess Kubiak saw the same National Championship we all saw. The Heisman winner sitting on the sidelines in the fourth quarter of the biggest game of the year.

Good job!

I thought they should have went with D'Brickshaw, but Williams is in the same vein on the other side.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=41420&page=4

[Northman]

Reggie Bush over Mario Williams?


I'll be the first to jump. Bush has turned into an overrated RB that doesn't break tackles and can't run on the inside. Williams on the other hand is turning into a very solid DE and the Texans have formed a formiable DL that could be very good for years to come.


I thought it then and i think it now. The Texans made the right choice going with a need rather than popular player.

[Northman]

It was against freaking FRESNO STATE!! Did you happen to watch the National Championship that year? You want to talk about domination by a single player in a football game (obviously) against better talent and more on the line, look no further than VY. 200 yards rushing and another 267 passing not bad against USC.

Reggie Bush should go back to being a decoy. He seems to be really good at that.


Thats all that needed to be said. VY owned them all night long. Greatest night of college football in my life. :~ohyah!:

[Bronx33]

I think Payton is trying too hard to set Bush up for success in New Orleans. Deuce goes a few series with 3, 4, 7 yard type runs and then Reggies in and gets 1, -4, 2. His yards per touch average is horrendous. If I was a Saints fan I would be pretty bummed about Bush, especially considering that Addai, Maroney, MJD, and DeAngello Williams all look a lot better.

I agree 100% payton may be asking too much from bush way too early he looks like hes overwhelmed at times trying to keep up with paytons expectations if he not careful he could ruin bush.

[ØrangeÇrush]

I agree 100% payton may be asking too much from bush way too early he looks like hes overwhelmed at times trying to keep up with paytons expectations if he not careful he could ruin bush.

so what you're saying is that he should trim bush back? :thumbsup:

[Bronx33]

so what you're saying is that he should trim bush back? :thumbsup:

Yep and make it a brazillian cut.. ;D

[Kaylore]

Your original post bases picking Young on "ticket selling power" and then Kubiak and the bootleg next.

Considering they're the fourth richest franchise, obviously "ticket selling power" took a back seat to their decision of what was best for their franchise.

Would you like Denver to draft hype queens that sell tickets and jerseys? Want Portis back?

You act like drafting Young would have been some kind of a gimmick. He is not at all like Michael Vick. He can play football and throw the ball very well. Now hind sight is 20-20, but part of their passing on a QB in the first place that year was partly because he wanted to help the defense, but also because Kubiak thought he could make Carr into a good QB. We know how that ended. They ended up trading for Schaub, which is working out ok. However drafting Young could have helped them get better sooner and they wouldn't have had to trade for a QB.

Being the fourth richest franchise doesn't mean you are selling all your tickets or that there isn't potential to increase that income! They played the Titans that year and had a very high turnout because a lot of people wanted to see Vince Young beat their team! I mean the guy was applauded when he walked onto the field.

If the Texans take Vince Young, they would have had a mobile QB to play behind their then-patchwork line, he would fill seats and they wouldn't have wasted another year on David Carr, who has no leadership ability and takes sacks too much. The problem is that I'm almost positive that the Titans would then take Cutler or Leinert, which of course means that we would then have no shot at Cutler at all, so it all works out.

[TheDave]

I had Houston in the OM mock draft that year... Didn't pick him then either.

Then again i did pick D'Brickashaw Ferguson... maybe that wasn't such a good idea.

[~Crash~]

No, never thought a 12-15 carry per game back should be the #1 overall. But I did love how ESPN loved to report that at least a quarter of the teams had Super Mario ranked 1st overall before Houston made their choice, but then freaked out when the Texans decided to take him at that spot.

hey hercules how long do we have Selvin Young under contract?

[Houshyamama]

It was against freaking FRESNO STATE!! Did you happen to watch the National Championship that year? You want to talk about domination by a single player in a football game (obviously) against better talent and more on the line, look no further than VY. 200 yards rushing and another 267 passing not bad against USC.

Reggie Bush should go back to being a decoy. He seems to be really good at that.

Its not like Texas shut Bush down:
13 carries/82 yds 1TD
6 rec/ 95 yds
5 KRet/ 102 yds

And how is this about Vince Young?

-also in that game:
Selvin Young
7 carries/ 45 yds 1TD :~ohyah!:

Bush's talent is undeniable. It's easy to be down on him now, but he WILL be an impact player.

[Atlas]

I think Houston needed to take a QB with that pick. I don't necessarily think Young though. I would have looked at Leinhart or Cutler just because I'm not a fan of athelete/scrambler first, passer second, kind of QB. Now Young could break that mold and be something very special, but that still remains to be seen.

Also, great point that they'd still have that pick they sent for Schaub had they taken QB first. On the other hand, I can also see why they may have been hesitant to do that just coming into/off the Carr debaucle.

Williams was a good pick.

Maybe, but it turned out great for them. Schaub is going to the Probowl this year.

[Atwater His Ass]

Really not much of a college football guy (I mean wtf, no playoffs? Bowl games? gtfo), but I seem to remeber Lendale White being the pin that made that USC offense go in that particular game. I remeber Bush sitting on the sideline on most of the crucial plays of that game. I thought that said a lot.

[Atwater His Ass]

Maybe, but it turned out great for them. Schaub is going to the Probowl this year.

Not saying it's not going to work out. But it's only 2 games in, and the probowl is a joke. But ****, they already way better than last year, so good for them.

[TheDave]

Maybe, but it turned out great for them. Schaub is going to the Probowl this year.

1. Manning
2. Brady
3. Cutler (little homer pick there)
4. Palmer
5. Rothlesberger
6. Young




7. Schaub

Keep in mind Atlas... this isn't the NFC ;D

[Northman]

Really not much of a college football guy (I mean wtf, no playoffs? Bowl games? gtfo), but I seem to remeber Lendale White being the pin that made that USC offense go in that particular game. I remeber Bush sitting on the sideline on most of the crucial plays of that game. I thought that said a lot.


Yea, white was a big part of that game in particular. Bush will be fine in the NFL but nothing on the level that Vince Young will be.

[Northman]

Not saying it's not going to work out. But it's only 2 games in, and the probowl is a joke. But ****, they already way better than last year, so good for them.

Considering what is happening in Atlanta it was a steal for Houston to get Matt. Ive been tooting his horn the last couple of years.

[TheChamp24]

Bush is nothing more than a more hyped up version of Brian Westbrook. Actually, he runs worse than Westbrook, but I think pretty similar.

I don't think the Texans made a mistake on passing on Bush or Young. I mean, they thought Carr could be a solid QB, but that turned out wrong. Plus, they also had Domanick Davis, who they thought would be healthy, but that turned out wrong.

They made the right choice IMO.

[Xenos]

I think Payton is trying too hard to set Bush up for success in New Orleans. Deuce goes a few series with 3, 4, 7 yard type runs and then Reggies in and gets 1, -4, 2. His yards per touch average is horrendous. If I was a Saints fan I would be pretty bummed about Bush, especially considering that Addai, Maroney, MJD, and DeAngello Williams all look a lot better.

Speaking of which, note to Payton, use Deuce more and you might actually win more games. And you're hurting me in fantasy league man. freaking 3 points!

[TheChamp24]

Speaking of which, note to Payton, use Deuce more and you might actually win more games. And you're hurting me in fantasy league man. freaking 3 points!

Speaking of RB's who are stinking up in fantasy football, how about Tomlinson. Can he get more than 1 stinking point please?

[Merlin]

However drafting Young could have helped them get better sooner and they wouldn't have had to trade for a QB.
A couple of people have mentioned this, but you forget that if they had picked VY then they would not have an excellent young DE, and it is highly unlikely they would have been able to find one in trade for a 2nd round pick.

[Atlas]

1. Manning
2. Brady
3. Cutler (little homer pick there)
4. Palmer
5. Rothlesberger
6. Young




7. Schaub

Keep in mind Atlas... this isn't the NFC ;D

Peyton, Brady, Schaub.... maybe cutler depending on how good of record.

Cinncinati, Titans won't make the playoffs the Texas are as a 10-6 wild card..... my prediciton anyway.