Donovan McNabb pulls the race card

[TheReverend]

Report: McNabb says black QBs under more pressure
ESPN.com news services

Updated: September 18, 2007, 9:30 AM ET
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African-American quarterbacks face more pressure and more criticism than their white counterparts, Philadelphia Eagles QB Donovan McNabb says in an interview scheduled to air on HBO on Tuesday night.



McNabb
McNabb, in an interview on "Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel," tells interviewer James Brown that African-American quarterbacks such as himself face added pressure because there are fewer black QBs -- and because some still don't want black athletes playing the position.

"There's not that many African-American quarterbacks, so we have to do a little bit extra," McNabb tells HBO. "Because the percentage of us playing this position, which people didn't want us to play ... is low, so we do a little extra."




Later in the interview, Brown presses McNabb on criticism of his performance -- and if African-American QBs are graded more harshly.



"I pass for 300 yards, our team wins by seven, [mimicking] 'Ah, he could've made this throw, they would have scored if he did this,' " McNabb tells HBO.


"Doesn't every quarterback go through that?" Brown asks.



"Not everybody," McNabb replies.

Brown then asks if the media is tougher on him than on white quarterbacks such as Carson Palmer and Peyton Manning.



"Let me start by saying I love those guys," McNabb tells HBO. "But they don't get criticized as much as we do. They don't."



In the interview, McNabb also talks to Brown about playing in Philadelphia, a city known for passionate sports fans who aren't afraid to criticize the city's pro athletes.

"Every year I'm part of some criticism," McNabb tells HBO. "But every day that we go through life, you're faced with a lot of adversity. Now the answer is how do you handle the adversity. How do you respond?



"I try to handle myself with class. I try to handle myself with dignity. I think sometimes people look to players to act out, speak loudly, pretty much be an idiot. But that's not me."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3025308

[ludo21]

wow

[Bronco_Beerslug]

He's absolutely correct, black QBs are definitely more scrutinized than white QBs. But he's a whiner too.

[redrage]

African-American quarterbacks face more pressure and more criticism than their white counterparts, Philadelphia Eagles QB Donovan McNabb says in an interview scheduled to air on HBO on Tuesday night.



McNabb
McNabb, in an interview on "Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel," tells interviewer James Brown that African-American quarterbacks such as himself face added pressure because there are fewer black QBs -- and because some still don't want black athletes playing the position.

"There's not that many African-American quarterbacks, so we have to do a little bit extra," McNabb tells HBO. "Because the percentage of us playing this position, which people didn't want us to play ... is low, so we do a little extra."




Later in the interview, Brown presses McNabb on criticism of his performance -- and if African-American QBs are graded more harshly.



"I pass for 300 yards, our team wins by seven, [mimicking] 'Ah, he could've made this throw, they would have scored if he did this,' " McNabb tells HBO.


"Doesn't every quarterback go through that?" Brown asks.



"Not everybody," McNabb replies.

Brown then asks if the media is tougher on him than on white quarterbacks such as Carson Palmer and Peyton Manning.



"Let me start by saying I love those guys," McNabb tells HBO. "But they don't get criticized as much as we do. They don't."



In the interview, McNabb also talks to Brown about playing in Philadelphia, a city known for passionate sports fans who aren't afraid to criticize the city's pro athletes.

"Every year I'm part of some criticism," McNabb tells HBO. "But every day that we go through life, you're faced with a lot of adversity. Now the answer is how do you handle the adversity. How do you respond?



"I try to handle myself with class. I try to handle myself with dignity. I think sometimes people look to players to act out, speak loudly, pretty much be an idiot. But that's not me."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3025308

I wonder why, Donovan. I wonder why.

[fontaine]

"Every year I'm part of some criticism," McNabb tells HBO. "But every day that we go through life, you're faced with a lot of adversity. Now the answer is how do you handle the adversity. How do you respond?



Must be real tough having to face that adversity cashing in a yearly salary that has at least 7 zeroes in it.


"I try to handle myself with class. I try to handle myself with dignity. I think sometimes people look to players to act out, speak loudly, pretty much be an idiot. But that's not me."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3025308

Too late for that Donovan.

[TheReverend]

Couple points that piss me off about this article:

1. Peyton Manning and Carson Palmer comparison? They don't get the criticism because they're better than you. Peyton had TONS of criticism despite shattering records until he won his ring. Carson is still in his honeymoon phase with Cinci because they're so ****ing happy to have a quarterback that can throw!

2. Does it seem like this is more feeling the heat of Kolb? They brought in a WHITE quarterback? OMFG! Get over it, your days were over when they picked him and if you don't like the pressure, call Jake Plummer and you two can bitch about it over ice cream while you do each other's hair and watch the Notebook.

3. You're judged on performance and championships, NOT color. Elway was white and he was crucified until he won two trophies and became infallible.

4. If you're going to bitch, bitch about your cheap ass franchise not spending money on a couple players that can catch the ball. Bitch at your weak stomach and mind for dry heaving and choking away your chance at the SB. Bitch at yourself because in the end, that's all there is to blame.

[TheReverend]

He's absolutely correct, black QBs are definitely more scrutinized than white QBs. But he's a whiner too.

You're an idiot. Name some examples.

Daunte Culpepper? Favorite MVP pick annually until exposed as a fraud in life after Randy.

Donovan? See above but switch Randy Moss with perennial injuries.

Mike Vick? The most electrifying QB that can't throw a football!

Aaron Brooks? Hahahaha.

[fontaine]

Man, you can see how badly the whole TO thing has f**ked him up.

Especially now that TO is down in hated rivals dallas without a harsh word to say about his QB.

[55CrushEm]

Couple points that piss me off about this article:

1. Peyton Manning and Carson Palmer comparison? They don't get the criticism because they're better than you. Peyton had TONS of criticism despite shattering records until he won his ring. Carson is still in his honeymoon phase with Cinci because they're so ****ing happy to have a quarterback that can throw!

2. Does it seem like this is more feeling the heat of Kolb? They brought in a WHITE quarterback? OMFG! Get over it, your days were over when they picked him and if you don't like the pressure, call Jake Plummer and you two can b**** about it over ice cream while you do each other's hair and watch the Notebook.

3. You're judged on performance and championships, NOT color. Elway was white and he was crucified until he won two trophies and became infallible.

4. If you're going to b****, b**** about your cheap ass franchise not spending money on a couple players that can catch the ball. b**** at your weak stomach and mind for dry heaving and choking away your chance at the SB. b**** at yourself because in the end, that's all there is to blame.

QFT

[Bronco_Beerslug]

You're an idiot. Name some examples.
Daunte Culpepper? Favorite MVP pick annually until exposed as a fraud in life after Randy.
Donovan? See above but switch Randy Moss with perennial injuries.
Mike Vick? The most electrifying QB that can't throw a football!
Aaron Brooks? Hahahaha.Off on a black QB rant today are you?

[Garcia Bronco]

If Rush couldn't talk about it why should he? What a sad little man McNabb has become. He dogged it in the Super Bowl and alienated his wide receiver that played in the same on a broken ankle. He also hasn't finished a season in two years. I'll say this...he's got a lotta nerve.

[TheReverend]

Off on a black QB rant today are you?

No. You are. I'm off on a rant that he's criticized for shoddy performance, and losses like EVERY quarterback.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

No. You are. I'm off on a rant that he's criticized for shoddy performance, and losses like EVERY quarterback.Right, that's why you just posted a list of black QBs and how horrible you think they are.

[Smiling Assassin27]

He's absolutely correct, black QBs are definitely more scrutinized than white QBs. But he's a whiner too.

Palmer's a good example but Peyton is flat out a better qb than McNabb every day of the week and twice on sundays. Peyton and Brady get less criticism because they're in a different stratosphere than every other qb.

[TheReverend]

Right, that's why you just posted a list of black QBs and how horrible you think they are.

You said McNabb was right.

I disagreed and listed my supporting evidence.

You have none so instead you also play the race card. Way to pull a Donovan! You put the douche in "douchebag"

[Bronco_Beerslug]

You said McNabb was right.
I disagreed and listed my supporting evidence.
You have none so instead you also play the race card. Way to pull a Donovan! You put the douche in "douchebag"Are you visually impaired too? He's absolutely right about many Americans views on black NFL QBs, especially in the South. Also, like I said, he's a whiner.
Palmer's a good example but Peyton is flat out a better qb than McNabb every day of the week and twice on sundays. Peyton and Brady get less criticism because they're in a different stratosphere than every other qb.Exactly!

[TheReverend]

Are you visually impaired too? He's absolutely right about many Americans views on black NFL QBs, especially in the South. Also, like I said, he's a whiner.
Exactly!

Quit trolling and hijacking threads and post some examples then. Show me instances where black quarterbacks have been criticized when their white counterpart would NOT be.

[NaptownChief]

What garbage....McNabb was given one of the biggest media passes in history when he literally $hit himself in the Super Bowl and couldn't even run a hurry up 2 minute offense with the game on the line. If Manning would have done that and lost the game he would have absolutely been mulled and crucified by the media.


Hey McNabb, why don't you spend as much time on getting in shape and working on throwing accuracy as you do whining and you might be a good QB.

BTW Palmer came back in less time from a more serious knee injury and we didn't hear him whining about only being "75%".

Go get in a good cry over some Chunky Soup with Big Mamma.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Quit trolling and hijacking threads and post some examples then. Show me instances where black quarterbacks have been criticized when their white counterpart would NOT be.I'm pretty sure most of the news makes even it to Camp Pendleton but since you think black QBs suck in the NFL and even made a list of black QBs with 4 Championship games between them to point out how bad they are, it's obvious you have your mind made up about black and white QBs.

[skpac1001]

He's absolutely correct, black QBs are definitely more scrutinized than white QBs. But he's a whiner too.

Where do you see this? I see things being pretty damn equal nowadays, if not a slight prejudice for black qb's because the stereotype is that they are all athletic playmakers who can make things happen when nobody is open. I see Manning catching more crap then McNabb for not being able to win a Superbowl (previously). I see Vick being untouchable no matter what he does (on the field, and until recently off also). I just dont see any examples of black qb's getting unusual and undeserved criticism that white qb's do not.
McNabb is in Philly (who are hard on athletes of all colors), with a brand new rookie qb behind him, and he is playing like crap, if he wants to think people are getting antsy because he is black thats fine, but I am not gonna buy it.

[bronco militia]

LOL

Rush was right!

[Willynowei]

Bull****. There are racists out there, but the media pressure and criticism has got nothing to do with his skin color.

A load of bull****.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Where do you see this? I see things being pretty damn equal nowadays, if not a slight prejudice for black qb's because the stereotype is that they are all athletic playmakers who can make things happen when nobody is open. I see Manning catching more crap then McNabb for not being able to win a Superbowl (previously). I see Vick being untouchable no matter what he does (on the field, and until recently off also). I just dont see any examples of black qb's getting unusual and undeserved criticism that white qb's do not.Mostly through the South but all other parts of the country too. Racial hatred is alive and well in this country even if it's toned down more these days. McNabb whining about it doesn't work though considering his own performances and injuries the last few years. Mostly, he's railing against the Philly media.

[TheReverend]

I'm pretty sure most of the news makes even it to Camp Pendleton but since you think black QBs suck in the NFL and even made a list of black QBs with 4 Championship games between them to point out how bad they are, it's obvious you have your mind made up about black and white QBs.

Every single post mystifies me as to how you can even figure out how to walk. Do you keep notes on your pocket that say "left foot, right foot, repeat" or is that even too complicated?

MY MIND IS MADE UP ON QUARTERBACK CRITICISM AND SCRUTINY NOT BLACK VS WHITE YOU BLATANT RETARD.

For the 10100101010101th time, post some examples to validate your retarded claim!

[NaptownChief]

Mostly through the South but all other parts of the country too. Racial hatred is alive and well in this country even if it's toned down more these days.



He is crying about the media being harder on black QB's....that is a completely different topic than the opinion of some rednecks in the south...completely different topics.

If he wanted to cry and say that there are a lot of people in the South that don't like black QB's then I might listen but to say the media is tougher on black QB's is a joke...It isn't even close to true and if their is any bias at all it is to cut them slack like he got cut for crapping himself in the Super Bowl.

[Willynowei]

Where do you see this? I see things being pretty damn equal nowadays, if not a slight prejudice for black qb's because the stereotype is that they are all athletic playmakers who can make things happen when nobody is open. I see Manning catching more crap then McNabb for not being able to win a Superbowl (previously). I see Vick being untouchable no matter what he does (on the field, and until recently off also). I just dont see any examples of black qb's getting unusual and undeserved criticism that white qb's do not.

Exactly, Vick is a perfect example. We are talking about the most talented athlete to come into the NFL in how many years? And after about two good seasons he's become a below average QB. And despite the blatant fact he sux, and is a bust in every sense of the word, he was still drummed up by ESPN day and night as a playmaker and superstar. An absolute sh*t quarterback and an even worse person who doesn't own up to their mistakes, but has no problems selling out his friends.

Yeah McNabb, Black QBs are under SO MUCH SCRUTINY.

[defenseman]

You're an idiot. Name some examples.

Daunte Culpepper? Favorite MVP pick annually until exposed as a fraud in life after Randy.

Donovan? See above but switch Randy Moss with perennial injuries.

Mike Vick? The most electrifying QB that can't throw a football!

Aaron Brooks? Hahahaha.

Better watch it REV, BB will make you out to be the supreme racists on the mane. OOPS...too late...he already did....ROFL! ...Par for the course..dman

*The eagle qb is a freaking WHINER. Nothing more, nothing less.

[skpac1001]

Mostly through the South but all other parts of the country too. Racial hatred is alive and well in this country even if it's toned down more these days. McNabb whining about it doesn't work though considering his own performances and injuries the last few years. Mostly, he's railing against the Philly media.

Well, I don't doubt that is true. I assumed you meant that everyone is harder on them, rather then a moronic segment of us.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

He is crying about the media being harder on black QB's....that is a completely different topic than the opinion of some rednecks in the south...completely different topics.

If he wanted to cry and say that there are a lot of people in the South that don't like black QB's then I might listen but to say the media is tougher on black QB's is a joke...It isn't even close to true and if their is any bias at all it is to cut them slack like he got cut for crapping himself in the Super Bowl.Is he? I didn't see a mention of the media anywhere in the post but maybe I missed that part. I did see where he was talking about fans though...
In the interview, McNabb also talks to Brown about playing in Philadelphia, a city known for passionate sports fans who aren't afraid to criticize the city's pro athletes.

[NaptownChief]

Racial hatred is alive and well in this country even if it's toned down more these days.


Yes and it is certainly a two way door yet we only talk about it in one direction.

[NaptownChief]

Is he? I didn't see a mention of the media anywhere in the post but maybe I missed that part. I did see where he was talking about fans though...


Brown then asks if the media is tougher on him than on white quarterbacks such as Carson Palmer and Peyton Manning.



"Let me start by saying I love those guys," McNabb tells HBO. "But they don't get criticized as much as we do. They don't."

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Better watch it REV, BB will make you out to be the supreme racists on the mane. OOPS...too late...he already did....ROFL! ...Par for the course..dman
*The eagle qb is a freaking WHINER. Nothing more, nothing less.In chimes the guy that says you can't trust any women...........classic :~ohyah!:

[dbfan21]

Couple points that piss me off about this article:

1. Peyton Manning and Carson Palmer comparison? They don't get the criticism because they're better than you. Peyton had TONS of criticism despite shattering records until he won his ring. Carson is still in his honeymoon phase with Cinci because they're so ****ing happy to have a quarterback that can throw!

2. Does it seem like this is more feeling the heat of Kolb? They brought in a WHITE quarterback? OMFG! Get over it, your days were over when they picked him and if you don't like the pressure, call Jake Plummer and you two can b**** about it over ice cream while you do each other's hair and watch the Notebook.

3. You're judged on performance and championships, NOT color. Elway was white and he was crucified until he won two trophies and became infallible.

4. If you're going to b****, b**** about your cheap ass franchise not spending money on a couple players that can catch the ball. b**** at your weak stomach and mind for dry heaving and choking away your chance at the SB. b**** at yourself because in the end, that's all there is to blame.

Bravo! Excellent take. So many times people look elsewhere to shift blame instead of looking inwards at themselves. Next thing you know, he will write a book about how the Eagles franchise jipped him out of something he felt he deserved. He has been the darling of the media for years. Now that his career is on the decline and he's looking over his shoulder, it someone else's fault. Get a life, Donavan!

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Yes and it is certainly a two way door yet we only talk about it in one direction.One door is bigger than the other but you're right about that.
Brown then asks if the media is tougher on him than on white quarterbacks such as Carson Palmer and Peyton Manning.
"Let me start by saying I love those guys," McNabb tells HBO. "But they don't get criticized as much as we do. They don't." Yeah, so he is b****ing about the media too :) I don't think he can handle the Philly media any longer.

You have to admit Palmer gets hardly any criticism from the media though.

[NaptownChief]

One door is bigger than the other but you're right about that.
Yeah, so he is b****ing about the media too :) I don't think he can handle the Philly media any longer.


I have no way in measuring that but I know there are far too many whites that have bias towards blacks, far too many blacks that have bias towards whites and even far too many blacks that have bias against blacks because of lighter versus darker skin.

Society pretends that one way is horrible while the other way is overlooked. It is all bad and all wrong. One no worse than the other.

[NaptownChief]

You have to admit Palmer gets hardly any criticism from the media though.



Smaller market....he is younger and he seems to keep improving. You can be assured that if another 5 years pass and he doesn't get them to a Super Bowl ring he will start taking heat like all highly paid QB's do.

You can also make the argument that he hasn't been given as much hype and praise as McNabb got at that point in his career either. That hype and praise helped McNabb get a $100 million contract also. You have to take the positives with the negatives. He would have never gotten that contract in Cincy.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Smaller market....he is younger and he seems to keep improving. You can be assured that if another 5 years pass and he doesn't get them to a Super Bowl ring he will start taking heat like all highly paid QB's do.

You can also make the argument that he hasn't been given as much hype and praise as McNabb got at that point in his career either. That hype and praise helped McNabb get a $100 million contract also. You have to take the positives with the negatives. He would have never gotten that contract in Cincy.I think Palmer signed an extension for 118 million in 2005.

[Taco John]

I don't buy it. I think quarterbacks are under pressure period. I don't see where Jake Plummer had it any easier than McNabb.

[Tom A Hawk]

Couple points that piss me off about this article:

1. Peyton Manning and Carson Palmer comparison? They don't get the criticism because they're better than you. Peyton had TONS of criticism despite shattering records until he won his ring. Carson is still in his honeymoon phase with Cinci because they're so ****ing happy to have a quarterback that can throw!

2. Does it seem like this is more feeling the heat of Kolb? They brought in a WHITE quarterback? OMFG! Get over it, your days were over when they picked him and if you don't like the pressure, call Jake Plummer and you two can b**** about it over ice cream while you do each other's hair and watch the Notebook.

3. You're judged on performance and championships, NOT color. Elway was white and he was crucified until he won two trophies and became infallible.

4. If you're going to b****, b**** about your cheap ass franchise not spending money on a couple players that can catch the ball. b**** at your weak stomach and mind for dry heaving and choking away your chance at the SB. b**** at yourself because in the end, that's all there is to blame.

excellent......and right on the money.

[cutthemdown]

You know who doesn't get a fair shake? Japanese Olineman and Farsi Dbacks.

[Stormontheplains]

Mcnabb needs to read the press clippings of Jake Plummer. Or how about Elway and the candy he handed out at halloween. He is too consumed with himself to look outside the box and fix the problem

[bronco militia]

nice one McChoke.

this ranks right up their with your "black on black crime" comment when TO threw your lame ass under the bus

[Rock Chalk]

LOL

Rush was right!

Duh

[Arkansas Bronco]

I don't buy it. I think quarterbacks are under pressure period. I don't see where Jake Plummer had it any easier than McNabb.

Plummer had more of a tan then Cutler so he was under the gun just because.

[skpac1001]

Plummer had more of a tan then Cutler so he was under the gun just because.

He was pretty athletic too, which according to Irvin means he has some color in his family tree. Its starting to add up.

[NaptownChief]

I think Palmer signed an extension for 118 million in 2005.


I didn't mean to imply Cincy won't pay or he wouldn't have gotten paid in Cincy but rather his deal at the time was a pace sitter and he wouldn't have likely gotten a pace setting contract without all the extra hype that comes from being in Philly. Palmer got big money but it was a follwer deal that came after McNabb, Manning and Vick got their monster money. Just saying McNabb wouldn't have had as much hype in Cincy and would have likely gotten less money at that time as a result.

[Rock Chalk]

Palmer is being touted as an elite QB and while I dislike Tony K, he mentioned something on MNF in week 1. If Palmer is so great Jaws, how come he cant win any playoff games? When does he start taking the blame for not doing enough to win games?

He is criticized when he passes for 300 and wins by seven.

Come to Denver Donovan, you want to be really criticized? Come to Denver you pussy.

[Beantown Bronco]

Some people have told me that I look "black" from the waist-down.....I have yet to determine if I've been subjected to more or less criticism in work because of it.

[Garcia Bronco]

I feel sorry for the 60's kids that carry around the notion that everything is racist and everything is a conspiracy.

[skpac1001]

I feel sorry for the 60's kids that carry around the notion that everything is racist and everything is a conspiracy.

I agree completely. I think the goverment is forcing us to learn to think that way in schools to keep us occupied while they destroy minorities.

[Arkansas Bronco]

Some people have told me that I look "black" from the waist-down.....I have yet to determine if I've been subjected to more or less criticism in work because of it.

You must have big feet. (This is just a joke I dont think all black people have big feet.)

[Garcia Bronco]

I agree completely. I think the goverment is forcing us to learn to think that way in schools to keep us occupied while they destroy minorities.

I think it's just guilt and over-reaction to the images they saw on TV as children. While there are racists in this WORLD, it doesn't mean it can be used as an excuse for one's failures. Exactly like the QB from Syracuse is trying to do with his comments about his millionaire plight.

[TheReverend]

I don't buy it. I think quarterbacks are under pressure period. I don't see where Jake Plummer had it any easier than McNabb.

Whoa, whoa. I thought YOU were so critical of Plummer because he was BLACK not because of his play on the field!

[p7superfly]

It's simply the Philly media. They're nuts. They tear everyone apart.

McNabb just thinks it's that way everywhere else. It's not.

Black QB's do have some stereo-types. Lots of them are hit up to play WR, or safety. Typically that means you can't hack it at QB - as some white guys have had that happen... but I'm sure there have been instances where it makes it more difficult.

...and I think Denver is a pressure cooker for a QB. But Philly is tougher.

[TheReverend]

You know JaMarcus Russell was the #1 overall pick because the white man doesn't want him to be a quarterback.

[skpac1001]

I think it's just guilt and over-reaction to the images they saw on TV as children. While there are racists in this WORLD, it doesn't mean it can be used as an excuse for one's failures. Exactly like the QB from Syracuse is trying to do with his comments about his millionaire plight.

Sounds right. My post about the goverment causing it was a weak attempt at a joke.

[Stormontheplains]

John Lynch was a victim of racism when they moved him from QB to safety. I don't believe he has ever overcame that period in his life

[skpac1001]

You must have big feet. (This is just a joke I dont think all black people have big feet.)

You know, I think this brings up an important point. NFL black qb's almost always have big hands and feet, and therefore have 3 seperate stereotypes working for them on a saturday night when the girls at the club are deciding who to go home with. This is the real unfair advantage, and any extra criticism they get on Sunday is just a cosmic way of trying to balance things out.

[NaptownChief]

Palmer is being touted as an elite QB and while I dislike Tony K, he mentioned something on MNF in week 1. If Palmer is so great Jaws, how come he cant win any playoff games? When does he start taking the blame for not doing enough to win games?

He is criticized when he passes for 300 and wins by seven.

Come to Denver Donovan, you want to be really criticized? Come to Denver you p***Y.


I have a hunch that if Palmer went down and his journeyman back up came in and did a lot better job and started dramatically improving the win/loss column I bet he would take a lot of heat also.

McNabb has had a bum in AJ Feeley and Jeff Garcia both step in and play better than him in that system. Maybe when he gets to be as good as AJ Feeley and Jeff Garcia he may not take so much heat. ;D

[HorseHead]

man, that "Chunky Soup" will mess your head up....

[DomCasual]

McNabb has two problems. First, he can't stay healthy. Second, he has a worthless bunch of receivers. He's pretty much had that since he's been there, with a few notable exceptions.

I don't know if it's coaching, or talent. But those guys don't do a lot to help him. It's interesting that the best year he ever had was the year he had TO there.

[bronco militia]

McNabb has two problems. First, he can't stay healthy. Second, he has a worthless bunch of receivers. He's pretty much had that since he's been there, with a few notable exceptions.

I don't know if it's coaching, or talent. But those guys don't do a lot to help him. It's interesting that the best year he ever had was the year he had TO there.

the only thing that is a constant in this discussion is Donovon McNabb.

Face it people, McNabb is overated

[TallyBronco]

Even if you think McGabb happens to be right on this point, his constant whining (and the media's sympathetic ear) shows no sense of perspective.

Here you've got a guy who's got one of the best jobs in the world, in the most prosperous country in the history of the world, in total command now of his own destiny, and he still has to whine about some small-scale prejudice. This is the attitude of a little brat who sees only the few things he can't have just yet and never the abundance he's been given in both heritage and opportunity.

[Bronco Bob]

If Rush couldn't talk about it why should he? What a sad little man McNabb has become. He dogged it in the Super Bowl and alienated his wide receiver that played in the same on a broken ankle. He also hasn't finished a season in two years. I'll say this...he's got a lotta nerve.

That's what I thought too. Far from it for me to be defending scum like
Limbaugh, but didn't Limbaugh get fired for basically making
the same point, that a black QB like McNabb is treated differently
than a white QB by the media?

[TheReverend]

Here's a fun take on it:

Donovan McNabb's Race Comments Way Out Of Bounds

http://www.aolcdn.com/fanhouse/sportz-assassin/ (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/bloggers/sportz-assassin/)Posted Sep 18th 2007 12:59PM by Sportz Assassin (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/bloggers/sportz-assassin/)
Filed under: Eagles (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/category/philadelphia-eagles/), NFC East (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/category/nfc-east/), Philadelphia (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/category/philadelphia/), Pressing Issues (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/category/pressing-issues/)
http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/sports.aol.com/fanhouse/media/2007/09/donovan-mcnabb-on-kolb-180.jpgIn an interview with James Brown on "Real Sports With Bryant Gumbel" (http://www.hbo.com/realsports/index.html) set to air tonight, Eagles QB Donovan McNabb (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/tag/DonovanMcNabb/) breaks out the race card, saying that black quarterbacks have to endure more criticism than white QBs. "There's not that many African-American quarterbacks, so we have to do a little bit extra," McNabb tells HBO. "Because the percentage of us playing this position, which people didn't want us to play ... is low, so we do a little extra."

"I pass for 300 yards, our team wins by seven, [mimicking] 'Ah, he could've made this throw, they would have scored if he did this,'It's funny the interview airs today ... just a day after McNabb is getting ripped for not making a key throw [that could've been a game-tying TD] and losing an 8-point game to NFC East rival Washington. A day after ESPN's Monday Night Football crew basically excused McNabb's inaccuracy to him trying to recover from knee surgery. I'm sure McNabb does get a lot of heat. He plays in Philly, for goodness sake, who boo everyone. But no more than any white QB would.

Chad Pennington (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/tag/ChadPennington/) was cheered being hurt as he limped off the field in New York last week. Trent Green has been consistently booed in Miami. Ask Rex Grossman (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/tag/RexGrossman/) about getting criticized. Or Eli Manning (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/tag/EliManning/). Or Jake Delhomme (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/tag/JakeDelhomme/). Last year, Super Bowl winning QB Ben Roethlisberger (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/tag/BenRoethlisberger/)was reemed for bad choices off the field. Even Golden Boy Brett Favre (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/tag/BrettFavre/) got some lashing after a subpar 2006 season.


Ask Chris Simms (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/tag/ChrisSimms/), or JP Losman (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/tag/JPLosman/), or Alex Smith (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/tag/AlexSmith/), or Joey Harrington (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/tag/JoeyHarrington/). Even the great Peyton Manning (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/tag/PeytonManning/) endured a ton of criticism for not being able to win the big one ... until he won the big one.

The NFL world is fawning over Vince Young (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/tag/VinceYoung/) ... while Jason Campbell (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/tag/JasonCampbell/) made the league take notice last night on the same field McNabb stunk up. I don't think Steve McNair (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/tag/SteveMcNair/) or Daunte Culpepper (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/tag/DaunteCulpepper/) are treated any differently than any other QB.

Hell, Michael Vick (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/tag/MichaelVick/) had one of the worst QB ratings in the NFL ... yet the team traded his backup [who is now 2-0 in Houston] to ensure he was their future. He rewarded them by pleading guilty to dogfighting charges ... which forced them to use a much criticized white QB in Joey Harrington to replace him. Now, they are looking at signing Byron Leftwich (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/tag/ByronLeftwich/) ... a black QB who was replaced in Jacksonville by another black QB.

The only QB that I can see that doesn't see much criticism is Tom Brady (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/tag/%selectedClean%/). Um, but Brady is a genuinely likeable guy who has won three Super Bowls and is nailing supermodels. Remember? He was the quarterback in Super Bowl XXXIX not blowing chunks on the field.

Donovan, the fact is that the team you are leading has lost 6 of 7 games with you as the starter. Meanwhile, the guy that took your spot while you were hurt went 5-1. He's now in Tampa. He also dealt with Terrell Owens calling him gay ... while you couldn't handle the fact that T.O. said you weren't Brett Favre.

It's not a race thing. You play in a city where people still wear Randall Cunningham jerseys.


"But every day that we go through life, you're faced with a lot of adversity. Now the answer is how do you handle the adversity. How do you respond?

"I try to handle myself with class. I try to handle myself with dignity. I think sometimes people look to players to act out, speak loudly, pretty much be an idiot. But that's not me."I beg to differ.

http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2007/09/18/mcnabbs-race-comments-way-out-of-bounds/#cont

[Broncomutt]

You're an idiot. Name some examples.

Daunte Culpepper? Favorite MVP pick annually until exposed as a fraud in life after Randy.

Donovan? See above but switch Randy Moss with perennial injuries.

Mike Vick? The most electrifying QB that can't throw a football!

Aaron Brooks? Hahahaha.

Interesting how you forgot:

Warren Moon - 4th all-time in passing yards

Steve McNair - 2003 NFL MVP (with Manning) 2 AFC Championships, 1 SB

You are a racist.

[Popps]

The great thing about the NFL is... if you produce, you play. Doesn't matter what color you are. Coaching might be a different story, though even that has improved.

Coaches don't give a flying **** what color their QB is. Black QBs have been playing for years.

Bottom line is, white guys are tending to make better QBs and black guys better WRs. It's not racist, it's just the way things play out, for whatever reason.

Trust me, if ANY white guy could play like Terrell Owens, he'd be a star... and if a black guy could play like Manning, he'd be a star.

Performance equals all of these things out on the field. Unlike life, football is a performance-only testing ground.

Donovan just isn't that good, sometimes. He looked horrible last night. Horrible. Not because he was black, but because his black arm was throwing the brown football 5 yards behind black (and white) receivers.

Get over it, Donovan.

Go out there and perform, and people will respect you.

http://www.liu.edu/cwis/CWP/library/african/2000/1988_03b.jpg

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/PHO/AAHG072_16x20-PassingAction~Warren-Moon-Posters.jpg

[NaptownChief]

Interesting how you forgot:

Warren Moon - 4th all-time in passing yards





Speaking of Moon, if ever a QB deserved to play the race card it was him yet he never did. The guy was the Pac 10 player of the year and Rose Bowl QB and didn't even get drafted. Had to play his way into the league via Canada and even when he got to the NFL and lit it up he never really got much credit or praise....and if I had to guess it was because he didn't run around and make plays with his feet like the typical AA QB but rather made his plays with his arm.

If Crybaby McNabb wants a dose of reality and what being done wrong because of your skin color he might drop Warren Moon a call. Getting selected as the second overall pick and being given a $100 million contract while you continue to choke and struggle is a far cry from being done wrong.

[DomCasual]

Interesting how you forgot:

Warren Moon - 4th all-time in passing yards

Steve McNair - 2003 NFL MVP (with Manning) 2 AFC Championships, 1 SB

You are a racist.

Be careful throwing around terms like that. I can't imagine a lot worse that you could say about someone. And to say it based upon a few comments in a thread is irresponsible.

As for the issue being discussed, I don't see your point. We're talking about black QBs being under more scrutiny than white QBs. Rev mentioned a handful of black QBs that are average or below. They get more scrutiny, because they suck. If a white QB had Aaron Brooks career, do you think he'd be any more respected?

The two QBs you mentioned are good QBs. Are they under more scrutiny than white QBs? Well, as you mentioned, Steve McNair won the league MVP award. Warren Moon has been given the sports highest honor, induction into the Hall of Fame. So, how exactly are those two more scrutinized? It appears to me they have gotten the recognition they deserve.

As I see it, generally speaking, you get the scrutiny you deserve - regardless of your skin color.

[TheReverend]

Interesting how you forgot:

Warren Moon - 4th all-time in passing yards

Steve McNair - 2003 NFL MVP (with Manning) 2 AFC Championships, 1 SB

You are a racist.

Interesting how YOU forgot the topic. McNabb is complaining about unfair criticism based on skin color, so your post has nothing to do with anything. I'm not bashing the achievements of black quarterbacks, you're just so ****ing paranoid you want to believe that.

[NaptownChief]

The two QBs you mentioned are good QBs. Are they under more scrutiny than white QBs? Well, as you mentioned, Steve McNair won the league MVP award. Warren Moon has been given the sports highest honor, induction into the Hall of Fame. So, how exactly are those two more scrutinized? It appears to me they have gotten the recognition they deserve.

As I see it, generally speaking, you get the scrutiny you deserve - regardless of your skin color.



The fact McNair got co-MVP with Manning that year only argues against McNabb's silly plight and argues for what Limbaugh said.

Manning destoryed McNair that year. Much better stats, better W/L and kicked his butt head to head twice. If the facts were reversed there is zero way Manning would have gotten co-MVP with McNair. Yet the media split the award.

[TheReverend]

The fact McNair got co-MVP with Manning that year only argues against McNabb's silly plight and argues for what Limbaugh said.

Manning destoryed McNair that year. Much better stats, better W/L and kicked his butt head to head twice. If the facts were reversed there is zero way Manning would have gotten co-MVP with McNair. Yet the media split the award.

OMG, you must be a racist for pointing out the obvious!!!!!!!!!!

[WolfpackGuy]

Philly pholks eat their own. McNabb knows that. I thought he had thicker skin than that... He should request a trade to the Cheaps. No expectations there.

[NaptownChief]

OMG, you must be a racist for pointing out the obvious!!!!!!!!!!



Well yeah...that is a given. A white man that isn't afraid to speak to the facts, of coarse I am. Isn't that the definiton of one?

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Philly pholks eat their own. McNabb knows that. I thought he had thicker skin than that... He should request a trade to the Cheaps. No expectations there.That's what a lot of this about, that and the fact they drafted Kolb. McNabb just figures they are getting ready to throw him to the curb, which they might be.

[NaptownChief]

That's what a lot of this about, that and the fact they drafted Kolb. McNabb just figures they are getting ready to throw him to the curb, which they might be.



Absolutely but it has nothing to do with race....They would mull any QB regardless of color under the same circumstance but as the other post points out every QB in the league takes an ungawdly amount of heat. Eli Manning, Rex Grossman, Jake Plummer, Chris Simms, B.Leftwich, Peyton Manning pre-Super Bowl ring, Chad Pennington and the list goes on and on.

McNabb just can't handle the reality of the position and needs something to blame it on. It is pathetic no matter what he tries to lay it on but using the race card only takes it up several hundred notches on the pathetic list.

[NaptownChief]

Can you imagine the crying from a guy like McNabb and even the media if he got cheered for getting hurt and replaced by Kellen Clemens like Pennington did?


WOLF......WOLF.......WOLF.......WOLF!

[TheReverend]

Can you imagine the crying from a guy like McNabb and even the media if he got cheered for getting hurt and replaced by Kellen Clemens like Pennington did?


WOLF......WOLF.......WOLF.......WOLF!

Oddly enough, that never happened to HIM in Philly but it DID happen to Jeff Garcia last year.

[Beantown Bronco]

The fact McNair got co-MVP with Manning that year only argues against McNabb's silly plight and argues for what Limbaugh said.

Manning destoryed McNair that year. Much better stats, better W/L and kicked his butt head to head twice. If the facts were reversed there is zero way Manning would have gotten co-MVP with McNair. Yet the media split the award.

Great point. Same with Kordell Stewart a few years before that. Mediocre stats at best, but he actually got quite a few MVP votes.....

[DomCasual]

Philly fans suck. Yeah, they're passionate, and all of that. That's great. A lot of cities have passionate fans. Philly fans cross the line of decency.

And before anyone objects, I realize that not all Philly fans are like that. But it's not like it's a really small minority, either.

[fontaine]

The fact McNair got co-MVP with Manning that year only argues against McNabb's silly plight and argues for what Limbaugh said.

Manning destoryed McNair that year. Much better stats, better W/L and kicked his butt head to head twice.

Yeah that's a nice story and all, but in real life McNair paid for his and the Titans way to the playoffs in blood and guts that season.

Yes Manning had better stats, but McNair bruised, beaten up and bloodied every week, still got on the field and willed his team to win. That can't be measured in stats but it was obvious in the seasons following that one because McNair simply wasn't the same QB after that season where he laid his body on the line.

[skpac1001]

This whole situation is just crying out for a SNL style spoof like Eddie Murphy did way back in the day when he had makeup put on to look like a white guy and got all sorts of rediculus special treatment like free money from the bank. Get a black guy, put on white guy makeup, and have him play qb. After throwing a pick he comes over, coach hugs him and says "we will get them next time tiger". Doug Williams goes out next and throws a touchdown and the coach tears him apart and pulls him out of the game for missing the wide open check down man.

[Bronx33]

I was pretty disapointed he and his mom were really pushing that chunky vegetable soup instead of the best one Grilled Chicken and Sausage Gumbo Soup.

[Rock Chalk]

White QBs this season which are more criticized or have been more criticized:
Joey Harrington
Chad Pennington
Charlie Frye (formerly of Cleveland fame)
Drew Brees
Eli Manning
JP Losman
Damon Huard
Trent Green
Rex Grossman (this guy gets it worse than anyone and its all deserved)
Tony Romo
Pretty sure whoever is starting for Tampa is going to hear a lot of **** too.

Quit your ****ing whining McNabb and score some god damn TDs my fantasy team is hurtin.

[Bronx33]

Racism will never go away as long as guys like Mcnabb keep saying it's there when it really isn't, hes making excuses plain and simple (just shut up Mcnabb)

[-Slap-]

Donovan pretty much lost me as a fan a couple months ago when he voiced support for his "friend" Michael Vick.

It's really strange the way Donovan's public image has changed over the years. He and his family earned so much respect for consistently taking the high road when confronted by idiots. Philly fans who wanted Ricky Williams on Draft Day, Rush the pill popper blindsiding him, etc.

That all changed when the Eagles brought Terrell Owens to town. Fairly or unfairly, TO painted Donovan as management's house boy, while the rest of the team were nothing more than field hands.

Eventually, Donovan's cool demeanor started showing cracks. He allowed TO to drag him into the pettiness little by little. Donovan hit his low point when he issued a rambling public reply to that crackpot NAACP chapter leader who blasted him. If there was ever a time to say nothing, it was right then. Instead, McNabb just sounded like a confused and insecure guy.

As far as his comments on this topic, you do have to kind of look at his rather unique situation. Philly is probably the most demanding place to play any sport, except for possibly New York. Donovan is just entering the phase where the hardcore misanthropes in that town start booing him out of town. He can still shut them up by winning. Interviews like this HBO piece are just going to hasten his departure. Maybe that's what he wants. Nine years in any city is a long time, especially if you come close but don't win the big one.

[Arkansas Bronco]

I made a couple random sarcastic today but I dont get racism. I grew up with friends and family that were but I never understood it. No matter the color we all bleed red we all have functional brain and we can all do the same dame thing. I work with almost all AA and I usualy dont talk work with em we talk life and football and I taught a guy from Japan english (yea pretty scary but he tought me a few new soccer skills) and was a pretty close friend to a hispanic. I dont get racism at all. No matter how you look at it though McNabb doesnt know what the hell he is talking about. A AA doesnt get selected at #1 overall and has a under-racial disadvantage cause I think he has a good arm but would place him below all the qb's from the first round ast year (and that is because I have had alot of time watching him). Anyways screw racism and McNabb (he gets killed because he now sucks).

[BroncoFiend]

I find it interesting that McNabb is pointing at the media for being racist. It always seems to me that the media are generally very carefull to come off as anything but racist. Sometimes going so far as to overcompensate.

It's ashame McNabb let this slip. I can understand him being emotional starting out the season struggling and having his team draft his replacement instead of some help.

I remember Elway struggled with the Maddox draft quite a bit and it was obvious that was the final straw between he and Reeves.

But to go on TV and throw something like that out there will only hurt him, he should have known that.

I've always pulled for McNabb, he always reminded me a bit of Elway. I hated how TO dragged him through all that crap, but he shouldn't have pulled the race card like that.

[mosca]

McNabb isn't "pulling" the race card. Rush Limbaugh pulled the race card a few years back with his comments regarding McNabb. McNabb is just responding in kind, a few years later.

And what McNabb has to say is 100% true. No ****, black QBs get criticized more. Anyone who's feigning outrage over anything McNabb says here must have blinders on.

[Popps]

No ****, black QBs get criticized more.

Yea, I just wonder what proof you have for that.

People say it, but that doesn't make it true.

Leftwich played like crap for a long time without anyone saying anything. They finally benched his ass.

Vick was a horrible passer, and he was a mega-star.

McNabb has generally had his ass kissed by the media.

Who are these black QBs having such a tough time?

Maybe they just aren't great, like most QBs. As Alec pointed out, ask Chad Pennington, Eli Manning, and friends if they're getting free passes because they're white.

I don't hear anyone busting Vince Young's chops. All I hear is excuses about how he can't pass because he's young, which I guess if fine. But, no one is blasting him. He was on the front of friggin' Madden. What do you want?

Maybe people gave a **** about QB color years ago, but the modern game and modern fans have seen enough black QBs that the novelty is gone.

So, guys like Donovan can no longer use that excuse when they stink it up like he did Monday night.

Time to move on, Donovan. Most black QBs have.

[skpac1001]

http://www.vidilife.com/video_play_134505_Eddie_Murphy_As_A_White_Guy.htm

This shows how it really is.

[mosca]

Yea, I just wonder what proof you have for that.

People say it, but that doesn't make it true.
It can't be proven or disproven, this is just based upon my personal observation of football fans I see in the world. No player, black or white, deserves free passes, excuses, or anything of the like. And that's not what McNabb was doing with this interview. Nowhere did he say that any criticism he's recieved had anything to do with his poor play on any given day, particularly Monday night. If anything, he spoke of overcoming criticism.

Maybe people gave a **** about QB color years ago, but the modern game and modern fans have seen enough black QBs that the novelty is gone.
Not as many people give a **** about race these days, but some still do. And plenty of those old-skool fans who did give a **** are still around these days, many of them older fans. They're still around, talking football at work or at bars or on talk radio. I hear them all the time.

[fontaine]

I think McNabb's just looking for a way out of Philly.

Pissing off the local fanbase is a good start but instead of making goofball comments like this why not pull a Mike Vick or Plummer and flip off the boo birds next home game?

It's probably best for him to get a fresh start somewhere that has decent WRs.

[DidISayThat?]

White QBs this season which are more criticized or have been more criticized:
Joey Harrington
Chad Pennington
Charlie Frye (formerly of Cleveland fame)
Drew Brees
Eli Manning
JP Losman
Damon Huard
Trent Green
Rex Grossman (this guy gets it worse than anyone and its all deserved)
Tony Romo
Pretty sure whoever is starting for Tampa is going to hear a lot of **** too.

Quit your ****ing whining McNabb and score some god damn TDs my fantasy team is hurtin.

You white boys don't get it, and you probably never will, but that's okay. I think McNabb hits it right on. A black quarterback IS more scruntized than his white counter part. If the above list of players were black they'd be long gone. There has been an underlying racsim concerning the black quarterback, but I do see the climate changing, albeit it could be just moving from overt to covert, due to public outcry. This player brings to light what he has dealt with since the day he was drafted, and he is subsequently attacked by being called whiner, unappreciative, and less talented. Typical clueless and bordline racist remarks, if you ask me. Yet I'm not mad at y'all, a lot of you knuckleheads are in the 15-35 year old range, and your parents long ago wiped your slates clean from the responsibility of dealing with the sins of your forefathers!
:afro:
Guess who's coming to dinnah?......natty dreadlocks!!

Go BRONCOS!

[TheReverend]

You white boys don't get it, and you probably never will, but that's okay. I think McNabb hits it right on. A black quarterback IS more scruntized than his white counter part. If the above list of players were black they'd be long gone. There has been an underlying racsim concerning the black quarterback, but I do see the climate changing, albeit it could be just moving from overt to covert, due to public outcry. This player brings to light what he has dealt with since the day he was drafted, and he is subsequently attacked by being called whiner, unappreciative, and less talented. Typical clueless and bordline racist remarks, if you ask me. Yet I'm not mad at y'all, a lot of you knuckleheads are in the 15-35 year old range, and your parents long ago wiped your slates clean from the responsibility of dealing with the sins of your forefathers!
:afro:
Guess who's coming to dinnah?......natty dreadlocks!!

Go BRONCOS!


Oh, wow, you are insanely ignorant.

Here's the list of players that would be "LONG GONE" if they were black:

1. Joey Harrington was brought in to back up an overrated BLACK qb. Yesterday, after 2 games worth of a chance, they signed a BLACK qb to come take his job.

2. Chad Pennington's replacement was drafted last year. He's only keeping the bench warm.

3. Charlie Frye IS long gone.

4. Drew Brees had an MVP campaign last year taking over for a black qb in a dominantly black city, wonder if they're b****ing about going deep in the playoffs for the first time ever? That's just the white man keepin a brotha down though right?

5. Eli Manning if you invested that many millions, and that many draft picks, do you really pull him after year 3? Btw, he's played pretty good so far despite injury.

6. JP Losman had Craig Nall and Kelly Holcombe compete against him in open competition. Sorry none of them were black, but JP won... for now.

7. Damon Huard is only getting a chance because his back up can't figure his ass from a hole in the ground. But you're right this blatant racial favortism of having 2 white quarterbacks must come from his black coach?

8. Trent Green was brought in as a stop gap and a mentor to their qb of the future and has only played 2 games for the franchise.

9. Rex Grossman... you might have had a point here but I think considering the fact his BLACK head coach has endured that much criticism sticking by him completely devalues your claim in this situation.

10. Tony Romo, went to the pro bowl last year and is currently 2-0. Btw, didn't Irving say he has some color in him?

Btw, most of our "forefathers" didn't even live here to commit the "sins" you're speaking of.

[stugotsII]

The position of QB is given too much credit for both wins and loses at every level. Race has nothing to do with it. Ask Rex Grossman if he thinks people are too critical of him because of his skin color.

McNabb's comments are flat out dumb. What is funny about his comments is that he is validating what Rush Limbaugh said about him years ago.

[Jason in LA]

I wouldn't blame race on this, even though I do find it very interesting that McNabb has fallen out of favor so fast. He's done a lot without much at the WR position. Last year he was on pace to set single season records before he got hurt. He was looking like a MVP out there. Two games into this year, after a major injury, all the heat is on him.

I thought Culpepper fell out of favor really fast too. In '04, he had one of the greatest seasons, stats wise, that a QB has ever had. And that was without a healthy Randy Moss, who missed three games and was hurt for a number of games. But as soon as he started to struggle everybody jumped on the guy.

I'm not going to say that those two cases are race issues, because a lot of white QBs get called out quick too.

[Jason in LA]

I will say this about the race issue. The one QB who I thought got a raw deal because of race was Vince Young. Because he is a black QB who could run he was lumped in with Michael Vick. But he's a totally different QB, because Young can actually throw the ball, and he can't run anything like Vick. People ignored the fact that he lead the nation in passing efficiency. In the Rose Bowl he completed damn near every pass he threw.

I felt that if Young had been a white QB, with the same exact abilities, he wouldn't have gone through all that crap, and he wouldn't be compared to Michael Vick. He would have been called a "mobile QB" instead of a "running QB".

All the crap that Young took heading into the draft was just wrong.

Other than Young, I wouldn't use the race card on any of the other black QBs. Some have been really good, some have sucked, just like white QBs.

[TheReverend]

I wouldn't blame race on this, even though I do find it very interesting that McNabb has fallen out of favor so fast. He's done a lot without much at the WR position. Last year he was on pace to set single season records before he got hurt. He was looking like a MVP out there. Two games into this year, after a major injury, all the heat is on him.

I thought Culpepper fell out of favor really fast too. In '04, he had one of the greatest seasons, stats wise, that a QB has ever had. And that was without a healthy Randy Moss, who missed three games and was hurt for a number of games. But as soon as he started to struggle everybody jumped on the guy.

I'm not going to say that those two cases are race issues, because a lot of white QBs get called out quick too.

I really don't think Daunte fell out of favor quickly. Before his injury in Minn he played TERRIBLY and Brad Johnson outperformed him.

Remember when he was traded to Miami they instantly became AFC East contenders until he was exposed as a fraud on the FIELD.

[TheReverend]

I will say this about the race issue. The one QB who I thought got a raw deal because of race was Vince Young. Because he is a black QB who could run he was lumped in with Michael Vick. But he's a totally different QB, because Young can actually throw the ball, and he can't run anything like Vick. People ignored the fact that he lead the nation in passing efficiency. In the Rose Bowl he completed damn near every pass he threw.

I felt that if Young had been a white QB, with the same exact abilities, he wouldn't have gone through all that crap, and he wouldn't be compared to Michael Vick. He would have been called a "mobile QB" instead of a "running QB".

All the crap that Young took heading into the draft was just wrong.

Other than Young, I wouldn't use the race card on any of the other black QBs. Some have been really good, some have sucked, just like white QBs.

I tend to agree with you here but I think a lot of that comparison comes from how much Vince ran the football in college and still does in the pros. To my recollection I can't think of a white QB that had that kind of success running with the football (as Vick and Young) since Jake as ASU.

[fontaine]

Remember when he was traded to Miami they instantly became AFC East contenders until he was exposed as a fraud on the FIELD.

I'm no Culpep fan but the guy is far from a fraud.

He's just like any good QB who needs solid WRs. You give him a decent OL and solid WRs and he'll get the job done.

The problem in Miami had more to do with his knee being completely destroyed and an OL that couldn't pass block to save their lives.

[NaptownChief]

You white boys don't get it, and you probably never will, but that's okay.



You are probably right....it is called paranoia. I don't get it and I hope I never do.

[Jason in LA]

I really don't think Daunte fell out of favor quickly. Before his injury in Minn he played TERRIBLY and Brad Johnson outperformed him.

Remember when he was traded to Miami they instantly became AFC East contenders until he was exposed as a fraud on the FIELD.


Look up that guy's numbers with the Viks. He was one of the top QBs in the league. In '04 he completed 69% of his passes, threw for 4,700 yards, and 39 TDs with only 11 ints. He had a QB rating of 110.9. That year Moss was hurt and had his lowest career totals to that point.

In '03 his numbers were 65%, 3,400 yards (14 games), 25 TDs, 11 ints, and a rating of 96.4. His first season as the starter with the Viks his rating was 98.0 while throwing for nearly 4,000 yards.

Brad Johnson never put up those type of numbers with the Viks. Not even close.

When Culpepper started the '05 season playing really bad, everybody turned on him. He went from being one of the best QBs in the league to being one of the worst. A lot of QBs have bad stretches and don't have that type of fall from glory.

Now, I'm not going to blame that on race. That is not my point here. I'm just pointing out that a guy went from being one of the top QBs in the league to being one of the worst QBs in the league without getting much of a chance to prove himself (it's interesting that the samething is happening to McNabb). I still believe that Culpepper could return to being one of the top QBs if given the right opportunity. His injury should be healed. I don't see why the Raiders aren't starting him. Actually, I'm glad the Raiders aren't starting him. If he did return to form, they may win some games. So I'm kind of rooting for and against him at the sametime. I'd like to see him become a top QB again, just not on the Raiders.

[Jason in LA]

I tend to agree with you here but I think a lot of that comparison comes from how much Vince ran the football in college and still does in the pros. To my recollection I can't think of a white QB that had that kind of success running with the football (as Vick and Young) since Jake as ASU.

If that's the case then could we lump in Steve Young with Vick? We could pick a number of mobile QBs and lump them in with Vick. But we don't, and we shouldn't with Vince. Vince is nothing like Vick. He isn't the running threat that Vick is. All Vick has is his running ability. Vince Young has a lot more to offer. I don't think Young will ever be a great passer, but I believe he will become more efficient, which will allow him to be more of a playmaker. His running ability is ahead of his passing ability at this point. But when his passing ability becomes better, he's going to be one of the best QBs in the league. Vick, on the other hand, was never going to be a good passer.

Like I said before, if Vince Young was white, with the same exact abilities, he would have never been compared to Vick, and he certainly wouldn't have been questioned as much. Vince took a ton of crap heading into the draft. It was totally unfair.

[footstepsfrom#27]

There's no doubt that racism toward black NFL quarterbacks has diminished considerably over what it was as late as the 1970's, particuarly with the arrival of so many black quarterbacks and the younger fan base in existence today. To say that it's entirely vanished is ludicrous given the fact that the vast majority of NFL fans are white, and racism in sports tends to mirror society at large to a certain extent, most of which is white. If it's true that racism still exists in white society, it's obviously true that it exists in sports as well, as a microcosm of society. How much it exists, and how pervasive it is would be sheer speculation since there's no way of measuring something like that but why anyone would dispute that it exists on some level is beyond me.

Nothing in McNabb's comments seem either surprising or out of line given the fact that HE HIMSELF has been the subject of two race based attacks, the first launched by talk show blowhard Rush Limbaugh and the second by the disgruntled Terrell Owens, a conflict that white NFL fans quickly seized upon and extended. Is there any doubt McNabb's view of this issue is probably the product of his own personal experience here?

Obviously not.

McNabb followed up his comments by stating that this wasn't something he was letting impact him personally, and that he saw it as simply something to move beyond, which most on this thread chose to conveniently ignore. I see nothing here but a frank and honest viewpoint offered by an athlete based on his own experience. Why is that offensive?

What is more telling than his comments with respect to whether they accurately reflect the state of the NFL fan base, is the rapid and rabbid response exhibited right here. A black quarterback has a different view on this than the predominately white fans who watch him play? Shocking! He must be playing the race card. This...again...is merely a reflection on society as a whole, where ANY comment on race by African Americans is perceived by a certain percentage of whites as illigitimate and unwarranted whether it is or not.

And that is all I have to say on this subject.

[NaptownChief]

Look up that guy's numbers with the Viks. He was one of the top QBs in the league. In '04 he completed 69% of his passes, threw for 4,700 yards, and 39 TDs with only 11 ints. He had a QB rating of 110.9. That year Moss was hurt and had his lowest career totals to that point.

In '03 his numbers were 65%, 3,400 yards (14 games), 25 TDs, 11 ints, and a rating of 96.4. His first season as the starter with the Viks his rating was 98.0 while throwing for nearly 4,000 yards.

Brad Johnson never put up those type of numbers with the Viks. Not even close.

When Culpepper started the '05 season playing really bad, everybody turned on him. He went from being one of the best QBs in the league to being one of the worst. A lot of QBs have bad stretches and don't have that type of fall from glory.

Now, I'm not going to blame that on race. That is not my point here. I'm just pointing out that a guy went from being one of the top QBs in the league to being one of the worst QBs in the league without getting much of a chance to prove himself (it's interesting that the samething is happening to McNabb). I still believe that Culpepper could return to being one of the top QBs if given the right opportunity. His injury should be healed. I don't see why the Raiders aren't starting him. Actually, I'm glad the Raiders aren't starting him. If he did return to form, they may win some games. So I'm kind of rooting for and against him at the sametime. I'd like to see him become a top QB again, just not on the Raiders.


The one big factor you are overlooking is that in both cases they got hurt and had journeyman QB's come in and start winning at a higher level. Vikes started winning when Johnson replaced Culpepper and Eagles started winning with Garcia replaced him. Winning is what fans care about and they weren't doing it.

[Northman]

More utter hogwash by McNabb. The media has kissed his ass since he came into the league. And for Footstool to use Limbaugh and Owens as his defense is even more moronic as both are bigger idiots than McNabb himself.

[TheReverend]

Look up that guy's numbers with the Viks. He was one of the top QBs in the league. In '04 he completed 69% of his passes, threw for 4,700 yards, and 39 TDs with only 11 ints. He had a QB rating of 110.9. That year Moss was hurt and had his lowest career totals to that point.

In '03 his numbers were 65%, 3,400 yards (14 games), 25 TDs, 11 ints, and a rating of 96.4. His first season as the starter with the Viks his rating was 98.0 while throwing for nearly 4,000 yards.

Brad Johnson never put up those type of numbers with the Viks. Not even close.

When Culpepper started the '05 season playing really bad, everybody turned on him. He went from being one of the best QBs in the league to being one of the worst. A lot of QBs have bad stretches and don't have that type of fall from glory.

Now, I'm not going to blame that on race. That is not my point here. I'm just pointing out that a guy went from being one of the top QBs in the league to being one of the worst QBs in the league without getting much of a chance to prove himself (it's interesting that the samething is happening to McNabb). I still believe that Culpepper could return to being one of the top QBs if given the right opportunity. His injury should be healed. I don't see why the Raiders aren't starting him. Actually, I'm glad the Raiders aren't starting him. If he did return to form, they may win some games. So I'm kind of rooting for and against him at the sametime. I'd like to see him become a top QB again, just not on the Raiders.

Uhhh, dude Brad Johnson never had Randy Moss to throw to.

And Daunte's magical 2004 season with Randy "Injured" for a massive three games, he caught 13 touchdown passes, so naturally, his presence had to be respected.

All I'm saying is show me when Daunte Culpepper has performed without the games most talented WR.

[Vegas_Bronco]

So lets see here, we have a liberal media pushing all kinds of ****ttt like this down our throats and now more of it - don't let it even entertain you weak minds. Maybe Rush was right, they (the media) are so obsessed with stirring this stuff up that they make it a race issue. I'm not even going to let this in and its too bad McNabb has made it such. I'll tell you one thing, every QB in this league feels pressure to succeed, if you're white and you suck, you get cut! If your black and you suck, you get cut! This league is a 'what have you done for me lately' company and McNabb had better recognize this and move on instead of focusing on and trying to gain sympathy for a simple challenge. Let's see, your team is 0-2 and you choose to focus on this? Hmmmmm, tells me a lot about the persons character, what a whimp!

[fontaine]

Look up that guy's numbers with the Viks. He was one of the top QBs in the league. In '04 he completed 69% of his passes, threw for 4,700 yards, and 39 TDs with only 11 ints. He had a QB rating of 110.9. That year Moss was hurt and had his lowest career totals to that point.

In '03 his numbers were 65%, 3,400 yards (14 games), 25 TDs, 11 ints, and a rating of 96.4. His first season as the starter with the Viks his rating was 98.0 while throwing for nearly 4,000 yards.

Brad Johnson never put up those type of numbers with the Viks. Not even close.

When Culpepper started the '05 season playing really bad, everybody turned on him. He went from being one of the best QBs in the league to being one of the worst. A lot of QBs have bad stretches and don't have that type of fall from glory.

Now, I'm not going to blame that on race. That is not my point here. I'm just pointing out that a guy went from being one of the top QBs in the league to being one of the worst QBs in the league without getting much of a chance to prove himself (it's interesting that the samething is happening to McNabb). I still believe that Culpepper could return to being one of the top QBs if given the right opportunity. His injury should be healed. I don't see why the Raiders aren't starting him. Actually, I'm glad the Raiders aren't starting him. If he did return to form, they may win some games. So I'm kind of rooting for and against him at the sametime. I'd like to see him become a top QB again, just not on the Raiders.


Culpep did fall out of favor in the '05 season. But there was a lot more to it.

1. Scott Linehan the OC left in 2005 for Miami. The offense game planning and calling fell to Mike Tice. That would kill any QB.

2. Culpep lost his stud Center Matt Birk so the OL was in flux and he never got the time in the pocket he had before. Then when he started playing better he got injured and Brad Johnson went on a roll.

3. Finally, Love Boat. If you've started the season poorly with such high expectations, the last thing you do is get caught out in a prostitute filled, free for all, gang bang on the high seas.

The loveboat thing didn't go down really well in the relatively low key conservative fan base of the Vikings. I could be wrong but Daunte had been complaining about his contract situation openly around that time as well. The love boat situation was the final straw though and him being the highest profile guy there, he naturally caught the most heat there. That, more than anything else, turned the local media and fans against him which spread to the national arena.

[TheReverend]

If that's the case then could we lump in Steve Young with Vick? We could pick a number of mobile QBs and lump them in with Vick. But we don't, and we shouldn't with Vince. Vince is nothing like Vick. He isn't the running threat that Vick is. All Vick has is his running ability. Vince Young has a lot more to offer. I don't think Young will ever be a great passer, but I believe he will become more efficient, which will allow him to be more of a playmaker. His running ability is ahead of his passing ability at this point. But when his passing ability becomes better, he's going to be one of the best QBs in the league. Vick, on the other hand, was never going to be a good passer.

Like I said before, if Vince Young was white, with the same exact abilities, he would have never been compared to Vick, and he certainly wouldn't have been questioned as much. Vince took a ton of crap heading into the draft. It was totally unfair.

I truly believe that if Vick and Steve Young had played in the SAME ERA they would've drawn similar comparisons early in their career.

But they didn't.

Maybe it's wishful thinking that I really think that's the reason and also the reason why Vick and Young draw comparisons, but I think it's much more valid than yours.

[NaptownChief]

Like I said before, if Vince Young was white, with the same exact abilities, he would have never been compared to Vick, and he certainly wouldn't have been questioned as much. Vince took a ton of crap heading into the draft. It was totally unfair.



He took a ton of crap because he posted that really low wonderlic test. But in the big picture I'm not sure how Young was mistreated too much as he ended up the 2nd overall pick in the draft.

Leinart took abunch of crap about only being interested in the Hollywood lifestyle ect, etc......and he fell in the draft. Was that a race issue?

Brady Quinn felll a ton in the draft, was that a race issue? Aaron Rodgers, race again?

People things happen...Some good, some bad to all people regardless of race. The biggest problem I see is that when something doesn't go right for AA's they assume it had to be race related and somebody tried to screw them. Everybody had bad things happen regardless of skin color.

[Vegas_Bronco]

There's no doubt that racism toward black NFL quarterbacks has diminished considerably over what it was as late as the 1970's, particuarly with the arrival of so many black quarterbacks and the younger fan base in existence today. To say that it's entirely vanished is ludicrous given the fact that the vast majority of NFL fans are white, and racism in sports tends to mirror society at large to a certain extent, most of which is white. If it's true that racism still exists in white society, it's obviously true that it exists in sports as well, as a microcosm of society. How much it exists, and how pervasive it is would be sheer speculation since there's no way of measuring something like that but why anyone would dispute that it exists on some level is beyond me.

Nothing in McNabb's comments seem either surprising or out of line given the fact that HE HIMSELF has been the subject of two race based attacks, the first launched by talk show blowhard Rush Limbaugh and the second by the disgruntled Terrell Owens, a conflict that white NFL fans quickly seized upon and extended. Is there any doubt McNabb's view of this issue is probably the product of his own personal experience here?

Obviously not.

McNabb followed up his comments by stating that this wasn't something he was letting impact him personally, and that he saw it as simply something to move beyond, which most on this thread chose to conveniently ignore. I see nothing here but a frank and honest viewpoint offered by an athlete based on his own experience. Why is that offensive?

What is more telling than his comments with respect to whether they accurately reflect the state of the NFL fan base, is the rapid and rabbid response exhibited right here. A black quarterback has a different view on this than the predominately white fans who watch him play? Shocking! He must be playing the race card. This...again...is merely a reflection on society as a whole, where ANY comment on race by African Americans is perceived by a certain percentage of whites as illigitimate and unwarranted whether it is or not.

And that is all I have to say on this subject.

Rush Limbaugh didn't say Donovan McNabb was a bad quarterback because he is black. He said that the media have overrated McNabb because he is black. He didn't say anything that he shouldn't have said, and in fact he said things that other commentators should have been saying for some time now, it's just that the NFL wants an imaged constant 'feel good' story. I mean, if they didn't hire Rush Limbaugh to say things like this, what did they hire him for? To talk about the prevent defense?

[Jason in LA]

The one big factor you are overlooking is that in both cases they got hurt and had journeyman QB's come in and start winning at a higher level. Vikes started winning when Johnson replaced Culpepper and Eagles started winning with Garcia replaced him. Winning is what fans care about and they weren't doing it.

The Viks didn't win anything when Johnson replaced Culpepper. Actually, they were slightly worse with Johnson. Culpepper did have them in the NFC title game, and they were a playoff team most of those years.

The problem was not Culpepper. It was Mike Tice. After Green left and Tice took over, they were no longer an every year playoff team. They didn't even make the playoffs with Johnson as the QB.

As for the Eagles getting better without McNabb, I wouldn't say that was true either. McNabb took them to the Super Bowl. Last year the team did play better when McNabb got hurt, but I'd say that was more because Reid started running the ball more, so the offense was better. They had more balance. I have never understood why Reid calls so many passing plays. When McNabb got hurt, his attact was a lot more balance, which helped them. It wasn't because Garcia played better, Reid adjusted the playcalling, which was better. I've always felt that the Eagles would be better if they gave McNabb a full time RB, kind of like when the Broncos got TD. It made life a lot easier for Elway. The balanced attack was hard to stop.

[TheReverend]

Two points illustrating Donovan's bull**** statement as false:

#1 QB selected in 06 Draft: Vince Young

#1 QB selected in 07 Draft: Jamarcus Russel

If people didn't want blacks to play the position, then why were they selected over Jay, Matt and Brady?

[footstepsfrom#27]

Rush Limbaugh didn't say Donovan McNabb was a bad quarterback because he is black. He said that the media have overrated McNabb because he is black. He didn't say anything that he shouldn't have said, and in fact he said things that other commentators should have been saying for some time now, it's just that the NFL wants an imaged constant 'feel good' story. I mean, if they didn't hire Rush Limbaugh to say things like this, what did they hire him for? To talk about the prevent defense?
The specifics of what he said don't strike me as nearly as relevant as the fact that HE was the one saying it...in other words, he's a lightning rod for controversy and his statements certainly generated a race based discussion directed towards McNabb. Again...HIS experience is in view here. Most people probably take their own experience as somewhat normative...whether it is or not.

[Jason in LA]

Uhhh, dude Brad Johnson never had Randy Moss to throw to.

And Daunte's magical 2004 season with Randy "Injured" for a massive three games, he caught 13 touchdown passes, so naturally, his presence had to be respected.

All I'm saying is show me when Daunte Culpepper has performed without the games most talented WR.

After Moss came back he was playing hurt. If I'm remembering right he got hurt around mid season, and when he came back he was never 100%. Moss had his lowest career totals to that point.

Culpepper had a great year, and it wasn't because of Moss.

[Jason in LA]

I truly believe that if Vick and Steve Young had played in the SAME ERA they would've drawn similar comparisons early in their career.

But they didn't.

Maybe it's wishful thinking that I really think that's the reason and also the reason why Vick and Young draw comparisons, but I think it's much more valid than yours.

Even if Vick and Steve Young played in the same era, I don't think they would be comparible. Young could pass the ball. And he could do it very well. I'd put Vince Young into the same catagory as Steve Young. VY isn't the passer that SY was, and may never be, but he's still a lot more like SY than Vick.

[Jason in LA]

Rush Limbaugh didn't say Donovan McNabb was a bad quarterback because he is black. He said that the media have overrated McNabb because he is black. He didn't say anything that he shouldn't have said, and in fact he said things that other commentators should have been saying for some time now, it's just that the NFL wants an imaged constant 'feel good' story. I mean, if they didn't hire Rush Limbaugh to say things like this, what did they hire him for? To talk about the prevent defense?


The major problem with Rush's statement was that he was flat out wrong. At the time McNabb was one of the top QBs in the league. So there was no reason for him to make that statement.

[Jason in LA]

He took a ton of crap because he posted that really low wonderlic test. But in the big picture I'm not sure how Young was mistreated too much as he ended up the 2nd overall pick in the draft.

Leinart took abunch of crap about only being interested in the Hollywood lifestyle ect, etc......and he fell in the draft. Was that a race issue?

Brady Quinn felll a ton in the draft, was that a race issue? Aaron Rodgers, race again?

People things happen...Some good, some bad to all people regardless of race. The biggest problem I see is that when something doesn't go right for AA's they assume it had to be race related and somebody tried to screw them. Everybody had bad things happen regardless of skin color.

He shouldn't have taken that crap over that wonderlic test. It's a BS test, which a number of white QBs have done poorly on. Didn't Marino get a 16 on that test? Wasn't that what Young's official score was?

What crap did Leinart take. Everybody had some laughs at his Hollywood lifestyle, but he didn't take any real heat.

Leinart, Quinn, and Rodgers have nothing to do with the point that I'm making. Their reputations weren't totally trashed like Young's was. They all fell in the draft, but they weren't labeled as busts before they were even drafted. People never said that they would never become good QBs. Why was that said about Young, who led the nation in passing efficiency?

[NaptownChief]

The Viks didn't win anything when Johnson replaced Culpepper. Actually, they were slightly worse with Johnson. Culpepper did have them in the NFC title game, and they were a playoff team most of those years.


As for the Eagles getting better without McNabb, I wouldn't say that was true either.


Dude you are more biased than the media.....

The year Culpepper got hurt and was replaced by Johnson the Vikes were 2-5 with Culpepper starting...Johnson came in and they won 6 in a row and finished the season 7-2 with him as the starter. Culpepper threw 6 TD's and 12 INT's that year and Johnson threw 12 TD's and 4 INT's.

Garcia took over and they went 5-2, winning the last 5 games after the team had hit a 5-6 record and were a complete mess.



How you could argue they didn't come in and play better is nuts.

[Jason in LA]

Dude you are more biased than the media.....

The year Culpepper got hurt and was replaced by Johnson the Vikes were 2-5 with Culpepper starting...Johnson came in and they won 6 in a row and finished the season 7-2 with him as the starter. Culpepper threw 6 TD's and 12 INT's that year and Johnson threw 12 TD's and 4 INT's.

Garcia took over and they went 5-2, winning the last 5 games after the team had hit a 5-6 record and were a complete mess.



How you could argue they didn't come in and play better is nuts.

You aren't looking that the big picture.

What did the Viks do the following year, with Johnson as their starter for the bulk of the season? 6-10. So what happened to the great Brad Johnson? He entered the season as the starter, started for the most part, and the team sucked.

What Super Bowl did Garcia lead the Eagles to? He didn't even lead them to the NFC title game. McNabb did that four times. But you want to look at seven games to prove your point.

You are looking at a hand full of games, but you are missing the number of years where the other guy was clearly getting the job done.

[Punisher]

your a QB your going to get criticized look at chad pennington when he got hurt it just gets on my nerves when someone always have to pull a race card.Im starting to think hes a idiot because this isnt the frist time he did this look at the T.O thing it was "Black on black crime" he says

[NaptownChief]

Leinart, Quinn, and Rodgers have nothing to do with the point that I'm making.


Not the point you are making but the point I am making...If those were three highly touted potential early first round black QB's, there would be folks that would be saying the reason they fell is due to being black.

My point is when things happen to whites it is just the way thing played out nothing more, nothing less....when it happens to AA's there is plenty of people standing around wanting to blame it on skin color rather than other factors.

[NaptownChief]

You aren't looking that the big picture.

What did the Viks do the following year, with Johnson as their starter for the bulk of the season? 6-10. So what happened to the great Brad Johnson? He entered the season as the starter, started for the most part, and the team sucked.

What Super Bowl did Garcia lead the Eagles to? He didn't even lead them to the NFC title game. McNabb did that four times. But you want to look at seven games to prove your point.

You are looking at a hand full of games, but you are missing the number of years where the other guy was clearly getting the job done.


The following year Johnson struggled and guess what? They replaced him. That is what happens in this league....It is a what are you doing for me now league. Period.

Garcia played well and wasn't even offered a new contract to stay with the Eagles.

So how is that some kind of preferential treatment?

[TheReverend]

The Viks didn't win anything when Johnson replaced Culpepper. Actually, they were slightly worse with Johnson. Culpepper did have them in the NFC title game, and they were a playoff team most of those years.

The problem was not Culpepper. It was Mike Tice. After Green left and Tice took over, they were no longer an every year playoff team. They didn't even make the playoffs with Johnson as the QB.

As for the Eagles getting better without McNabb, I wouldn't say that was true either. McNabb took them to the Super Bowl. Last year the team did play better when McNabb got hurt, but I'd say that was more because Reid started running the ball more, so the offense was better. They had more balance. I have never understood why Reid calls so many passing plays. When McNabb got hurt, his attact was a lot more balance, which helped them. It wasn't because Garcia played better, Reid adjusted the playcalling, which was better. I've always felt that the Eagles would be better if they gave McNabb a full time RB, kind of like when the Broncos got TD. It made life a lot easier for Elway. The balanced attack was hard to stop.

2005 Minnesota Vikings w/Daunte Culpepper
1 Win
6 Losses

in 7 games 223 ypg passing, 6 TDs, 12 INTs

2005 Minnesota Vikings w/Brad Johnson
8 Wins
1 Loss

in 9 games 209 ypg passing, 12 TDs, 4 INTs

2006 Philadelphia Eagles w/Donovan McNabb
5 Wins
5 Losses

in 10 games 264 ypg passing, 18 TDs, 6 INTs

2006 Philadelphia Eagles w/Jeff Garcia
5 Wins
1 Loss


in 6 games 218 ypg passing, 10 TDs, 2 INTs

[LDB]

I wouldn't blame race on this, even though I do find it very interesting that McNabb has fallen out of favor so fast. He's done a lot without much at the WR position. Last year he was on pace to set single season records before he got hurt. He was looking like a MVP out there. Two games into this year, after a major injury, all the heat is on him.

I thought Culpepper fell out of favor really fast too. In '04, he had one of the greatest seasons, stats wise, that a QB has ever had. And that was without a healthy Randy Moss, who missed three games and was hurt for a number of games. But as soon as he started to struggle everybody jumped on the guy.

I'm not going to say that those two cases are race issues, because a lot of white QBs get called out quick too.

That's because it isn't race related. Prime example: Ben Roethlisberger. It is the position they play not the color of their skin. You get paid the big bucks, you are the leader of the team...perform. That's what fans expect...not lame excuses.

I am sure that McNabb is happier today that people are talking about the dumb race issue and not his chokejob performance on Monday night.

[Jason in LA]

The following year Johnson struggled and guess what? They replaced him. That is what happens in this league....It is a what are you doing for me now league. Period.

Garcia played well and wasn't even offered a new contract to stay with the Eagles.

So how is that some kind of preferential treatment?

Are you making the case that McNabb didn't play well last year? Are you blaming the team's problems on him? I made a point about the change in playcalling, which you did not address. The Eagles turned it around because of the change in playcalling, going to a more balanced attack, which they should of had with McNabb in there.

Are you going to make the argument that Garcia is a better QB for the Eagles than McNabb is? Based on a small sample of games? We're talking about a guy that led the team to 4 NFC title games, to a guy who didn't.

Culpepper was way better than Johnson, and McNabb is way better than Garcia.

Just to point it out one more time, my position has never been that McNabb, Culpepper, or black QBs in general are critizied because of race. Young is the only one that I would make that argument for, so I do not think that this is a problem for black QBs in general, like McNabb made it out to be.

[Jason in LA]

2005 Minnesota Vikings w/Daunte Culpepper
1 Win
6 Losses

in 7 games 223 ypg passing, 6 TDs, 12 INTs

2005 Minnesota Vikings w/Brad Johnson
8 Wins
1 Loss

in 9 games 209 ypg passing, 12 TDs, 4 INTs

2006 Philadelphia Eagles w/Donovan McNabb
5 Wins
5 Losses

in 10 games 264 ypg passing, 18 TDs, 6 INTs

2006 Philadelphia Eagles w/Jeff Garcia
5 Wins
1 Loss


in 6 games 218 ypg passing, 10 TDs, 2 INTs

Just like with Naptownchief, you are taking a small sample and missing the bigger picture. McNabb has been a very good QB for a number of years for the Eagles, and led them to championship games and a Super Bowl. We've seen Garcia over the years, and he isn't in McNabb's league. He wouldn't have led them to anything, just like last year. And Reid changed his play calling to a more balanced attack when Garcia became the starter, which was more of a factor than Garcia's play. Garcia did not out play McNabb last year. Reid finally got his head out of his ass and started to run the ball, which makes it easier on a QB.

In the case of Culpepper, the guy went for 4700 yards and 39 TDs in one with a QB rating of 110 one season, and had a rating above 95 in two other seasons. It is silly to even thing that Johnson was a better QB for the Viks. What did Johnson do the very next year with the Viks? 6-10.

Look at more than half of a season.

[TheReverend]

Are you making the case that McNabb didn't play well last year? Are you blaming the team's problems on him? I made a point about the change in playcalling, which you did not address. The Eagles turned it around because of the change in playcalling, going to a more balanced attack, which they should of had with McNabb in there.

Are you going to make the argument that Garcia is a better QB for the Eagles than McNabb is? Based on a small sample of games? We're talking about a guy that led the team to 4 NFC title games, to a guy who didn't.

Culpepper was way better than Johnson, and McNabb is way better than Garcia.

Just to point it out one more time, my position has never been that McNabb, Culpepper, or black QBs in general are critizied because of race. Young is the only one that I would make that argument for, so I do not think that this is a problem for black QBs in general, like McNabb made it out to be.

No ones claiming you're saying it's a race issue, we're just refuting your argument.

We don't KNOW what Garcia would've done with the 2004 Eagles. We don't KNOW what Johnson would've done with the 2003 Vikings.

Different coaching staffs, and different rosters create a near infinite amount of variables! Every NFL team makes drastic changes every single year.

Here's what we do know:
We do KNOW what Garcia/McNabb did in 2006 with the same product. We do KNOW what Culpepper/Johnson did in 2005 with the same product.

[Jason in LA]

Not the point you are making but the point I am making...If those were three highly touted potential early first round black QB's, there would be folks that would be saying the reason they fell is due to being black.

My point is when things happen to whites it is just the way thing played out nothing more, nothing less....when it happens to AA's there is plenty of people standing around wanting to blame it on skin color rather than other factors.


If a black QB falls in the draft, I wouldn't say it is because he is black. I can't speak for the rest of the people, but I wouldn't make that assumption unless there was something concrete that supports points to that claim.

With McNabb's comments, I don't think there is anything concrete to support his point, so I'm not about to make an argument that he is right.

But in Young's case, I believe that there is something concrete to support the argument. Namely Vick. Both black. Both can run. So they must be the same QB...right? And we know what a lot of people think about Vick (even before this whole dog fighting thing). If Young was a white guy with the same exact abilities he wouldn't be lumped in with Vick at all. He would be lumped in with all of the mobile QBs, which he really is.

[DomCasual]

No ones claiming you're saying it's a race issue, we're just refuting your argument.

We don't KNOW what Garcia would've done with the 2004 Eagles. We don't KNOW what Johnson would've done with the 2003 Vikings.

Different coaching staffs, and different rosters create a near infinite amount of variables! Every NFL team makes drastic changes every single year.

Here's what we do know:
We do KNOW what Garcia/McNabb did in 2006 with the same product. We do KNOW what Culpepper/Johnson did in 2005 with the same product.

Plus, football players - especially quarterbacks - can get into a groove. I could name example after example of a talented starter that went out, was replaced by a less-talented backup, and watched as the less-talented backup outperformed him. To Jason's point, if you were to play them, all things being equal, for, say, 60 games, the cream would rise to the top. But you have a hot QB that is winning games. Unfair as it is to the starter - if it isn't broke, you don't fix it.

In those two examples, it just happens to be the black QB that is the starter. A reversed example that comes to mind is the 1998 Vikings. Brad Johnson started and got hurt. Randall Cunningham replaced him and played like he had sold his soul to the devil (34 TDs, 10 INTs for a guy who had been out of football two years earlier). It would have been stupid for Dennis Green to go back to Brad Johnson when he returned (as it turned out, it didn't matter - Johnson hurt his thumb as soon as he returned, IIRC).

The funny thing about that was that Green got seduced by the year Cunningham had, and traded Johnson to Washington in the offseason for a king's ransom. Cunningham was benched by the middle of the '99 season in favor of the immortal Jeff George, and Johnson made the pro bowl in Washington.

[Jason in LA]

Let me take this Culpepper/McNabb vs. Johnson/Garcia one step further. I'm going to use the logic that TheReverend and Naptownchief have used. I'm going to take a small sample of games and present to you guys an argument that is total loonicy.

By taking a small sample of games, we could say that Bubby Brister was better than Elway. In '98, Elway went 10-2. Brister was 4-0 with the same exact team. Undefeated. Let me take the loonicy a step further. Against the Chiefs, the Broncos blew out KC in KC with Brister as the QB, but had to come back from 10 points down with Elway as the QB in Denver. So Brister must be better...right?

Now, is anybody going to make the argument that Brister was better in '98? That would be pretty dumb. If the Broncos had Brister as the QB for the entire season they wouldn't have flirted with a perfect season, and they wouldn't have won the Super Bowl.

My point is that you can't go by a small sample of games and say one QB was better than the other.

Culpepper and McNabb have been much better QBs than Johnson and Garcia. Nobody would have ever considererd Johnson or Garcia as being amoung the top QBs in the league. Culpepper and McNabb have been on that level.

[TheReverend]

Plus, football players - especially quarterbacks - can get into a groove. I could name example after example of a talented starter that went out, was replaced by a less-talented backup, and watched as the less-talented backup outperformed him. To Jason's point, if you were to play them, all things being equal, for, say, 60 games, the cream would rise to the top. But you have a hot QB that is winning games. Unfair as it is to the starter - if it isn't broke, you don't fix it.

In those two examples, it just happens to be the black QB that is the starter. A reversed example that comes to mind is the 1998 Vikings. Brad Johnson started and got hurt. Randall Cunningham replaced him and played like he had sold his soul to the devil (34 TDs, 10 INTs for a guy who had been out of football two years earlier). It would have been stupid for Dennis Green to go back to Brad Johnson when he returned (as it turned out, it didn't matter - Johnson hurt his thumb as soon as he returned, IIRC).

The funny thing about that was that Green got seduced by the year Cunningham had, and traded Johnson to Washington in the offseason for a king's ransom. Cunningham was benched by the middle of the '99 season in favor of the immortal Jeff George, and Johnson made the pro bowl in Washington.

Dom, the great thing about THIS post is your examples prove MY point. When Cunningham filled in for Johnson, did Johnson receive criticism from being outperformed by his backup, or was he immune to criticism because of white skin force field?

[TheReverend]

Let me take this Culpepper/McNabb vs. Johnson/Garcia one step further. I'm going to use the logic that TheReverend and Naptownchief have used. I'm going to take a small sample of games and present to you guys an argument that is total loonicy.

By taking a small sample of games, we could say that Bubby Brister was better than Elway. In '98, Elway went 10-2. Brister was 4-0 with the same exact team. Undefeated. Let me take the loonicy a step further. Against the Chiefs, the Broncos blew out KC in KC with Brister as the QB, but had to come back from 10 points down with Elway as the QB in Denver. So Brister must be better...right?

Now, is anybody going to make the argument that Brister was better in '98? That would be pretty dumb. If the Broncos had Brister as the QB for the entire season they wouldn't have flirted with a perfect season, and they wouldn't have won the Super Bowl.

My point is that you can't go by a small sample of games and say one QB was better than the other.

Culpepper and McNabb have been much better QBs than Johnson and Garcia. Nobody would have ever considererd Johnson or Garcia as being amoung the top QBs in the league. Culpepper and McNabb have been on that level.

10-2 and 4-0... I don't have a ****ing clue how that compares to 1-6 vs 8-1.

[NaptownChief]

If a black QB falls in the draft, I wouldn't say it is because he is black. I can't speak for the rest of the people, but I wouldn't make that assumption unless there was something concrete that supports points to that claim.

With McNabb's comments, I don't think there is anything concrete to support his point, so I'm not about to make an argument that he is right.

But in Young's case, I believe that there is something concrete to support the argument. Namely Vick. Both black. Both can run. So they must be the same QB...right? And we know what a lot of people think about Vick (even before this whole dog fighting thing). If Young was a white guy with the same exact abilities he wouldn't be lumped in with Vick at all. He would be lumped in with all of the mobile QBs, which he really is.



Right, I'm not saying you would but there would be plenty out there that would make it a race issue. Just like McNabb is making his issue a race issue when it isn't anything more than just the way the cookie crumbles for people that play the QB position. Play well and get way too much credit, play poorly and get ripped to shreds. It is the same for all QB's yet he is too shallow to look outside the box. He thinks the whole world is about him and if he isn't being treated well then it has to be a race issue.


As for Young and the Vick comparisions, that is just the way it is and it goes both ways. Every white WR gets compared to Ed McCaffrey and called a possession receiver whether they have 4.3 speed or 4.7 speed.

[Jason in LA]

No ones claiming you're saying it's a race issue, we're just refuting your argument.

We don't KNOW what Garcia would've done with the 2004 Eagles. We don't KNOW what Johnson would've done with the 2003 Vikings.

Different coaching staffs, and different rosters create a near infinite amount of variables! Every NFL team makes drastic changes every single year.

Here's what we do know:
We do KNOW what Garcia/McNabb did in 2006 with the same product. We do KNOW what Culpepper/Johnson did in 2005 with the same product.

I'm not saying that you guys are saying that I'm claiming it is race, I just wanted to make sure that it was clear.

I can tell you that Garcia wouldn't have led those Eagle teams to the NFC title games, and Johnson wasn't leading a Viks team with no defense to the NFC title game.

Like I said before, Garcia did not out perform McNabb. Reid finally decided to run the ball.

[TheReverend]

I'm not saying that you guys are saying that I'm claiming it is race, I just wanted to make sure that it was clear.

I can tell you that Garcia wouldn't have led those Eagle teams to the NFC title games, and Johnson wasn't leading a Viks team with no defense to the NFC title game.

Like I said before, Garcia did not out perform McNabb. Reid finally decided to run the ball.

I don't know about that... I think McNabb IS a more talented athlete but I definitely think Garcia's leadership is a massive reason they went 5-1 with him as a starter.

[Jason in LA]

Every white WR gets compared to Ed McCaffrey and called a possession receiver whether they have 4.3 speed or 4.7 speed.

I totally agree with you on that point. I think it's silly. Kevin Kasper was supposed to be another McCaffrey, even though Kasper was 6' and McCaffery was 6'5".

And I'll say that McCaffrey was unfairly labeled slow. The guy ran a 4.4 40, and he didn't get caught from behind.

[Jason in LA]

I don't know about that... I think McNabb IS a more talented athlete but I definitely think Garcia's leadership is a massive reason they went 5-1 with him as a starter.


It was Reid's change to a more balanced attack, instead of the pass it all the time attack he usually has. It makes no sense for a team that usually has bad WRs to pass the ball so much. It doesn't help the QB out much.

[broncocalijohn]

Jason, I got to agree with the REVEREND and Naptown. THe stats you provide is no clear way of knowing who was better. There was no complaints on Elway going 10 and 2. Brister gets 4 games and goes perfection. Personally, I would take 10 and 2 over 12 games than 4 and 0. The stats the two posters provide are huge differences on outcomes that two different Qbs had based on the same year. If you are going to compare different scenarios, you got to pick something better than Elway/Brister. McNabb might be throwing this black QB thing out to deflect criticism off of him. I saw other problems (Special Teams) vs. Green bay to jump on McNabb. He knows how Philly fans and media is and is going to do what he can to protect himself. I think it sucks wha the is putting out there. McNabb is a top notch QB, but refuting the Culpepper/Johnson and McNabb/Garcia might be tough.

[Rock Chalk]

You white boys don't get it, and you probably never will, but that's okay. I think McNabb hits it right on. A black quarterback IS more scruntized than his white counter part. If the above list of players were black they'd be long gone. There has been an underlying racsim concerning the black quarterback, but I do see the climate changing, albeit it could be just moving from overt to covert, due to public outcry. This player brings to light what he has dealt with since the day he was drafted, and he is subsequently attacked by being called whiner, unappreciative, and less talented. Typical clueless and bordline racist remarks, if you ask me. Yet I'm not mad at y'all, a lot of you knuckleheads are in the 15-35 year old range, and your parents long ago wiped your slates clean from the responsibility of dealing with the sins of your forefathers!
:afro:
Guess who's coming to dinnah?......natty dreadlocks!!

Go BRONCOS!

You black boys seem to think us white people are OK with being called white boys.

McNabb has been given a free pass for his entire career when he has failed 5 times in a row to get his team to a Superbowl. Only when TO shows up do they get there and McNabb chokes it away andc STILL got a free pass and was not scrutinized like ANY of those QBs I mentioned.

First of all, my forefathers have their sins between them and god but NO ONE in my family owned slaves. My family wasnt even in America at the time of slavery you stupid uneducated piece of ****. Quit being racist and lumping an entire race together.

[DomCasual]

You white boys don't get it, and you probably never will, but that's okay. I think McNabb hits it right on. A black quarterback IS more scruntized than his white counter part. If the above list of players were black they'd be long gone. There has been an underlying racsim concerning the black quarterback, but I do see the climate changing, albeit it could be just moving from overt to covert, due to public outcry. This player brings to light what he has dealt with since the day he was drafted, and he is subsequently attacked by being called whiner, unappreciative, and less talented. Typical clueless and bordline racist remarks, if you ask me. Yet I'm not mad at y'all, a lot of you knuckleheads are in the 15-35 year old range, and your parents long ago wiped your slates clean from the responsibility of dealing with the sins of your forefathers!
:afro:
Guess who's coming to dinnah?......natty dreadlocks!!

Go BRONCOS!

Wow, I missed this post somehow.

You create more racial problems than you solve, and come across as a fool. (Hey, no offense, though!)

If your grammar was better, I would guess that you were GonzoLays, under a different moniker.

[TheReverend]

It was Reid's change to a more balanced attack, instead of the pass it all the time attack he usually has. It makes no sense for a team that usually has bad WRs to pass the ball so much. It doesn't help the QB out much.

In case you're curious, I just checked this out:

During McNabbs span of 5-5, the opponents faced were a collective 73-87 for a win % of 45.6

During Garcias span of 5-1, the opponents faced were a collective 49-47 for a win % of 51.0

That's an 11% difficulty climb.

[NaptownChief]

I can tell you that Garcia wouldn't have led those Eagle teams to the NFC title games, and Johnson wasn't leading a Viks team with no defense to the NFC title game.

Like I said before, Garcia did not out perform McNabb. Reid finally decided to run the ball.



That may or maynot be the case and is just opinion and speculation. What is fact is that when given the chance with the same surrounding team and coaches during the same year the results weren't even close. That is all we know for certain and a big factor why each team and their fans heavily questioned their value by drafting other QB's and moving in different directions. That isn't a race issue. That is a performance issue. Garcia got run from SF after just one mediocre season that followed multiple Pro Bowl seasons. It happens to everyone.

[Garcia Bronco]

After Moss came back he was playing hurt. If I'm remembering right he got hurt around mid season, and when he came back he was never 100%. Moss had his lowest career totals to that point.

Culpepper had a great year, and it wasn't because of Moss.

Every QB spiked that year because they changed rule enforcement.

[Northman]

First of all, my forefathers have their sins between them and god but NO ONE in my family owned slaves. My family wasnt even in America at the time of slavery you stupid uneducated piece of ****. Quit being racist and lumping an entire race together.


QFT

Unlike Alec's family mine did own slaves but somehow i dont feel bad. Should I? I mean, i wasnt alive during that time or era so how i am responsible again? And since you brought up slavery shouldnt you be pissed at your own race as well? I mean, afterall they sold your ancestors to the white man to begin with. If your coming to dinner be sure to bring some KFC. I love me some chicken!! :afro:

[DidISayThat?]

Wow, I missed this post somehow.

You create more racial problems than you solve, and come across as a fool. (Hey, no offense, though!)

If your grammar was better, I would guess that you were GonzoLays, under a different moniker.

When ignorance speaks, I take no offense, I chalk it up as another sloughy remark! I create nothing. The racial problelm surfaced in the beginning of this thread and is moving rather swiftly. Matched that with those who wish it would just go away to keep from dealing with it...like you! You grasp not because you know not. See through another's eyes, walk in another shoes. Refusing to do so.....therein lies the fool. Where you at? I have to give props when due, there have been some to question that maybe there could be some shred of truth in what this player is saying.

[TheReverend]

When ignorance speaks, I take no offense, I chalk it up as another sloughy remark! I create nothing. The racial problelm surfaced in the beginning of this thread and is moving rather swiftly. Matched that with those who wish it would just go away to keep from dealing with it...like you! You grasp not because you know not. See through another's eyes, walk in another shoes. Refusing to do so.....therein lies the fool. Where you at? I have to give props when due, there have been some to question that maybe there could be some shred of truth in what this player is saying.

There has been no racial problem that surfaced in the beginning of this thread.

However, there IS an EQUALITY problem that surfaced at the beginning of this thread.

If you think there's some racial problem, look in the mirror to find it's origin.

[fontaine]

Interesting.

Brian Billick, FWIW, seems to have said something similar:

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/football/bal-sp.blackqbs20sep20,0,1131642.story


When Wright was the starter for the Ravens in 2003, Billick echoed McNabb's current remarks by saying that black quarterbacks were scrutinized more than white quarterbacks.

Billick said yesterday that he hadn't watched the interview with McNabb.

"I'd kind of like to think we're past all that, but that's probably a little naive, too," Billick said.

[Northman]

Interesting.

Brian Billick, FWIW, seems to have said something similar:

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/football/bal-sp.blackqbs20sep20,0,1131642.story


Boller was dead on with his remarks. As far as Wright is concerned i dont know where Billick is getting all that. I listen to Bmore sports talk all day and never heard the race card played against Wright. In fact, when Wright had a big game against Seattle a few years ago a lot of people wanted him as the starter over Boller.

[Broncos_OTM]

He is crying about the media being harder on black QB's....that is a completely different topic than the opinion of some rednecks in the south...completely different topics.

If he wanted to cry and say that there are a lot of people in the South that don't like black QB's then I might listen but to say the media is tougher on black QB's is a joke...It isn't even close to true and if their is any bias at all it is to cut them slack like he got cut for crapping himself in the Super Bowl.
The only racists i have met in the south were black folk. and they dont even hide it.

[Broncos_OTM]

Exactly, Vick is a perfect example. We are talking about the most talented athlete to come into the NFL in how many years? And after about two good seasons he's become a below average QB. And despite the blatant fact he sux, and is a bust in every sense of the word, he was still drummed up by ESPN day and night as a playmaker and superstar. An absolute sh*t quarterback and an even worse person who doesn't own up to their mistakes, but has no problems selling out his friends.

Yeah McNabb, Black QBs are under SO MUCH SCRUTINY.

Your wrong homie. about two things. He was the last to take a plea aggrement and didnt rat out nothing, until his co defendants made him. After the fact he did own up to his mistakes although it took a grand jury to do so. other than that you are spot on

[Broncos_OTM]

Is he? I didn't see a mention of the media anywhere in the post but maybe I missed that part. I did see where he was talking about fans though...

hey slug Phili is a Yankee city. just in case you forgot your Geography courses from Elementary

[Broncos_OTM]

Ryan Leaf never got any criticism for being a white QB..

[Broncos_OTM]

You white boys don't get it, and you probably never will, but that's okay. I think McNabb hits it right on. A black quarterback IS more scruntized than his white counter part. If the above list of players were black they'd be long gone. There has been an underlying racsim concerning the black quarterback, but I do see the climate changing, albeit it could be just moving from overt to covert, due to public outcry. This player brings to light what he has dealt with since the day he was drafted, and he is subsequently attacked by being called whiner, unappreciative, and less talented. Typical clueless and bordline racist remarks, if you ask me. Yet I'm not mad at y'all, a lot of you knuckleheads are in the 15-35 year old range, and your parents long ago wiped your slates clean from the responsibility of dealing with the sins of your forefathers!
:afro:
Guess who's coming to dinnah?......natty dreadlocks!!

Go BRONCOS!
and in reply i say. you black boys dont get it. hmm sounds vaguely racist to me. FLAME ON. My family in case you never knew Fought on the north side in the civil war. We lost 15 of my family for your freedom. My family never owned slaves. so keep it up with your trash sterotypical crap

[Bronco_Beerslug]

hey slug Phili is a Yankee city. just in case you forgot your Geography courses from Elementary
My geography is pretty good, what's a "Yankee city"?

[TheReverend]

My geography is pretty good, what's a "Yankee city"?

If your geography is good, then apparently your history blows.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

If your geography is good, then apparently your history blows.Explain it for me jarhead, what's a "Yankee city"?

[TheReverend]

Explain it for me jarhead, what's a "Yankee city"?

In the 19th century, something called the civil war occured. Feel free to look it up at your local library, or ask anyone that's not a retarded piece of **** like you.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

In the 19th century, something called the civil war occured. Feel free to look it up at your local library, or ask anyone that's not a retarded piece of **** like you.No kidding? So how did that work out for y'all?

[TheReverend]

No kidding? So how did that work out for y'all?

Oh my god you're retarded. You realize 19th century is 1800-1899 right? and that the 20th century was 1900-1999 and that we currently live in the 21st century?

Look, I know I don't like you, but goddamn thank you for being you. EVERY post you amaze me because I don't think you could possibly get dumber... but everytime... you do.

[TomServo]

i would say poor lil donavan has gone through about 1% of the crap these guys had to to do what they did to play in college and the nfl. seeing as how hes gone from a good guy to a whiner in my eyes anyway, he probably would have given up if he had to do what they did.
Willie Thrower Chicago Bears, 1953
That Thrower’s football career went largely unknown even his New Kensington, Pa., is one of sports' greatest crimes of apathy. The Jackie Robinson of baseball, Thrower owns not one but two benchmarks as a race pioneer. Thrower became the first black quarterback both in the Big 10, helping Michigan State to the 1952 title. On Oct. 18, 1953, he became the first black quarterback to play in the NFL, his first and last game. It would be 15 years before another black quarterback played in the league. Thrower died in February 2002.
Moon: “Willie is the first guy that you have to mention as the first black quarterback to play in a game. He only played in one, but it was a game that has huge significance historically and psychologically. His contributions were huge.”
Marlon Briscoe Denver Broncos, 1968; Buffalo, 1969-1971; Miami, 1972-1974, Detroit/San Diego, 1975; New England, 1976
Where Thrower took the first step, Marlon Briscoe started running. He had been an All-American at Nebraska-Omaha, but Briscoe didn’t wait for an invitation to be the first black quarterback to start an NFL game. He wrote one himself. Literally. Denver drafted Briscoe at cornerback, but knowing that the Broncos opened their training camp to media and the public, Briscoe negotiated his own contract and secured a three-day tryout at quarterback. Questioning his leadership ability as a "black quarterback," Denver elected to keep him at cornerback. But when Steve Tensi, Denver’s starter went down with an injury two games into the season, the fans and media pressured Denver’s coaching staff into naming Briscoe the quarterback. He started in the third game of the season and starred for the Broncos, developing into one of the AFL’s most promising youngsters.
But the black quarterback mantra had life left in it. The Broncos acquired a quarterback in the off-season and left Briscoe out of the loop. He never played quarterback in the AFL/NFL again, but he never stopped starring either. Briscoe became one of the league’s best wide receivers in the early 1970s.

[Garcia Bronco]

In the 19th century, something called the civil war occured. Feel free to look it up at your local library, or ask anyone that's not a retarded piece of **** like you.

You mean the War of Northern Agression. :)

[Rock Chalk]

Explain it for me jarhead, what's a "Yankee city"?

I was intrigued by this conversation so I viewed your otherwise ignored post.

Let me be the first to give you the kind of answer you are looking for.

A Yankee city is any major metropolitan area north of the Mason Dixon line and largely east of the Mississippi river (though for some less educated folk down south, it really could mean any city north of your current location). Why yankees? Because southerners refer to people north of the mason dixon line as yankees. Duh.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I was intrigued by this conversation so I viewed your otherwise ignored post.

Let me be the first to give you the kind of answer you are looking for.

A Yankee city is any major metropolitan area north of the Mason Dixon line and largely east of the Mississippi river (though for some less educated folk down south, it really could mean any city north of your current location). Why yankees? Because southerners refer to people north of the mason dixon line as yankees. Duh.You seemed to be "intrigued" by a lot of my posts then but I was looking for an answer from the original poster to see if his definition of a ""Yankee city" included the Mason Dixon line or something more "Southern".

[Cito Pelon]

I get tired of all this racial strife. I realize now how much of my life has been absorbed by this racial garbage. From grade school through high school, through the Army, it's been one problem after another with African Americans. What a waste of time posturing and fighting. For nothing, really. Just posturing was all it was, a competition who could seem like the toughest. The times it came to a fistfight, nobody gained from it but temporary bragging rights. There was no advance to a career, a better car, a better job, a better education. It was just silly, juvenile. Just a big, stupid, wasted circle of energy that should have been directed in a more forward direction.

[Northman]

I get tired of all this racial strife. I realize now how much of my life has been absorbed by this racial garbage. From grade school through high school, through the Army, it's been one problem after another with African Americans. What a waste of time posturing and fighting. For nothing, really. Just posturing was all it was, a competition who could seem like the toughest. The times it came to a fistfight, nobody gained from it but temporary bragging rights. There was no advance to a career, a better car, a better job, a better education. It was just silly, juvenile. Just a big, stupid, wasted circle of energy that should have been directed in a more forward direction.


REP

[Broncos_OTM]

You seemed to be "intrigued" by a lot of my posts then but I was looking for an answer from the original poster to see if his definition of a ""Yankee city" included the Mason Dixon line or something more "Southern".

Slug i dont know if you are playing ignorant. or if you really are but just to help you out.

http://www.civilwarhome.com/statesdivison.htm

Anything in blue is "yankee"

Anything in Gray is "rebel"

Also really ironic, is that donavon plays in the "city of Brotherly love"

[NFLBRONCO]

Pull the race card McNabb but, face it your also in a tough market in Philly. Alot of people get descriminated against that don't get millions and millions of dollars so is it that bad I think not.

[Punisher]

Ryan Leaf never got any criticism for being a white QB..

lol

[brother love]

Personally for 100 million bucks you can call me whatever you want!

If you make that kind of money and don't live up to the hype, I don't care if your black, white, red, or purple your going to get scrutinzed!

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Slug i dont know if you are playing ignorant. or if you really are but just to help you out.
http://www.civilwarhome.com/statesdivison.htm
Anything in blue is "yankee"
Anything in Gray is "rebel"Well how about that, I thought the civil war ended over a hundred years ago but apparently not.

Also really ironic, is that donavon plays in the "city of Brotherly love"Is it? How so, because McNabb is a "brother"?

[Bronco Bob]

Well how about that, I thought the civil war ended over a hundred years ago but apparently not.
Is it? How so, because McNabb is a "brother"?

Aren't we all brothers?

[Spider]

well there is the Jena 6 thing going on ...... I really dont know enough about that case , but what I do know isnt good .......

[Broncos_OTM]

Aren't we all brothers?

From my short time on this board it seems Slug is the PC police. i think he is pretty dense trying to read into things that just are not there.

And slug just to SPELL it out for you. The city is known as the "City of Brotherly Love." But they show NO love.

Yeah so the war is over. I am sure a bunch of yankees can handle being called a yank seeing as that i am one.

Need a tissue?