U.S. Home Foreclosures Soar in August

[Bronco_Beerslug]

So when's the bottom, this year, next year, the year after?

==============================
By ALEX VEIGA, AP Business Writer 12 minutes ago

LOS ANGELES - The number of foreclosure filings reported in the U.S. last month more than doubled versus August 2006 and jumped 36 percent from July, a trend that signals many homeowners are increasingly unable to make timely payments on their mortgages or sell their homes amid a national housing slump.


http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20070918/capt.bf130dbb4ced48c78bf4659b4e686f37.realtytrac_i nc__foreclosure_map_prn11.jpg?x=380&y=267&sig=yv5.iK12BrLl4hHnnIOIFQ--
August 2007 Foreclosure Activity. (PRNewsFoto/RealtyTrac Inc.)

A total of 243,947 foreclosure filings were reported in August, up 115 percent from 113,300 in the same month a year ago, Irvine, Calif.-based RealtyTrac Inc. said Tuesday.

There were 179,599 foreclosure filings reported in July.

The filings include default notices, auction sale notices and bank repossessions. Some properties might have received more than one notice if the owners have multiple mortgages.

August's total represents the highest number of foreclosure filings reported in a single month since the company began tracking monthly filings two years ago.

The national foreclosure rate last month was one filing for every 510 households, the company said.

"The jump in foreclosure filings this month might be the beginning of the next wave of increased foreclosure activity, as a large number of subprime adjustable rate loans are beginning to reset now," RealtyTrac Chief Executive James J. Saccacio said.

The mortgage industry has been rocked by a surge in defaults, particularly among borrowers with subprime loans and adjustable rate mortgages that initially had attractive "teaser" interest rates but then can adjust upward, resulting in a payment shock.

Many of the loans, some of which adjust in as little as two years, were issued in 2005 and 2006 during the height of the housing boom.

Lagging home sales and flat or decreasing home prices have also left homeowners unable to make their mortgage payments hard-pressed to find buyers.

The latest figures also reflect an increase in the number of homes going into foreclosure that are not being picked up in estate sales and are ending up going back to lenders.

The number of bank repossessions jumped to 42,789 in August, compared with 20,116 a year earlier, the RealtyTrac said. In July, there were 26,842 bank repossessions.

Nevada, California and Florida had the highest foreclosure rates in the country last month, the firm said.

Nevada reported one foreclosure filing for every 165 households — more than three times the national average. The state had 6,197 filings in August, an increase of 21 percent from July and more than triple the year-ago figure.

California's foreclosure rate was one filing for every 224 households. The state reported the most foreclosure filings of any single state with 57,875, up 48 percent from July and an increase of more than 300 percent from August 2006.

Florida had one foreclosure filing for every 243 households. In all, the state reported 33,932 foreclosure filings, up 77 percent from July's total and more than twice the year-ago total.

Georgia, Ohio, Michigan, Arizona, Colorado, Texas and Indiana rounded out the 10 states with the highest foreclosure rates.
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Click on the state you’re interested in!


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[TBD]

So when's the bottom, this year, next year, the year after?

Long way to go IMHO, timber.......look out below. Depends on who we put in office that sets our economic policies. If someone like Ron Paul is leading the nation I think we are back on track in a few years, if not more of the same for a decade.

[defenseman]

Long way to go IMHO, timber.......look out below. Depends on who we put in office that sets our economic policies. If someone like Ron Paul is leading the nation I think we are back on track in a few years, if not more of the same for a decade.

it's not looking good. My sister in law, there in denver, ran a fair amount of wachovia lending offices wrt home mortgages. She shut entire offices down over the last week. cost of operations vs. losses due to the housing market. Some folks lost their jobs. She still handles some of the offices but less than before. she basically sees more cutbacks....dman

[TBD]

it's not looking good. My sister in law, there in denver, ran a fair amount of wachovia lending offices wrt home mortgages. She shut entire offices down over the last week. cost of operations vs. losses due to the housing market. Some folks lost their jobs. She still handles some of the offices but less than before. she basically sees more cutbacks....dman

Net foreign purchases 19.2B compared to 120.9B last month. Who is going to fund new mortgages even if buyers have good credit? In the coming months the FED is going to have to monetize most of the new credit along with the dumping of US treasuries by foreign CB's. The only way to offset the imbalances is to inflate or die. Its going to get ugly.

[defenseman]

Net foreign purchases 19.2B compared to 120.9B last month. Who is going to fund new mortgages even if buyers have good credit? In the coming months the FED is going to have to monetize most of the new credit along with the dumping of US treasuries by foreign CB's. The only way to offset the imbalances is to inflate or die. Its going to get ugly.

I certianly do see it getting worse before it gets better. I'm thinking it's time to have a look at my long term investments and figure what's the safest and most profitable for the downturn....dman

[TBD]

I certianly do see it getting worse before it gets better. I'm thinking it's time to have a look at my long term investments and figure what's the safest and most profitable for the downturn....dman

Sprott Asset Management has a report out you might want to read. Canadian Firm with good track record (http://www.sprott.com/pdf/marketsataglance/09-2007.pdf)

[Bronco Bob]

Long way to go IMHO, timber.......look out below. Depends on who we put in office that sets our economic policies. If someone like Ron Paul is leading the nation I think we are back on track in a few years, if not more of the same for a decade.

What exactly is Ron Paul going to do about it? You Paulists act like the
guy is a combination of Jesus, Buddha, and Vishnu all rolled up into one.

[TBD]

What exactly is Ron Paul going to do about it? You Paulists act like the
guy is a combination of Jesus, Buddha, and Vishnu all rolled up into one.

By eliminating the FED and issuing our currency through constitutional means (the treasury) we will not pay interest on the national debt. As it stands now all IRS payments go to the FED for interest only on the national debt. It will be the only way to pay the debt and end the slavery created in 1913. Its pretty simple amigo, follow the constitution and the founders advice.

[W*GS]

By eliminating the FED and issuing our currency through constitutional means (the treasury) we will not pay interest on the national debt. As it stands now all IRS payments go to the FED for interest only on the national debt.

Not quite. Not every penny of the taxes we pay to the IRS goes just for the national debt, if I read you correctly.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

By eliminating the FED and issuing our currency through constitutional means (the treasury) we will not pay interest on the national debt. As it stands now all IRS payments go to the FED for interest only on the national debt. It will be the only way to pay the debt and end the slavery created in 1913. Its pretty simple amigo, follow the constitution and the founders advice.Uh, our debt is a little more complicated than that and moving to some sort of metal standard for currency isn't going to happen and for good reason.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

General Information (http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/resources/faq/faq_publicdebt.htm#GenInfo)
Make-up of The Debt (http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/resources/faq/faq_publicdebt.htm#DebtMakeup)
Ownership of the Debt (http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/resources/faq/faq_publicdebt.htm#DebtOwner)
Financing of The Debt (http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/resources/faq/faq_publicdebt.htm#DebtFinance) General Information (http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/resources/faq/faq_publicdebt.htm)

Where is the money spent that is borrowed from the public and who decides where it goes?

The Bureau of Public Debt is responsible for accounting for and reporting the debt in accordance with statutory direction. The Bureau does not have any public policy decision-making authority. Visit the Financial Management Service web site (http://www.treasurydirect.gov/exit.htm?http://www.fms.treas.gov) for more information. Information about the "Budget of the United States" is available at the Government Printing Office web site (http://www.treasurydirect.gov/exit.htm?http://www.gpo.gov/customerservices/index.html).
What is the difference between the debt and the deficit?

The deficit is the fiscal year difference between what the United States Government (Government) takes in from taxes and other revenues, called receipts, and the amount of money the Government spends, called outlays. The items included in the deficit are considered either on-budget or off-budget.
You can think of the total debt as accumulated deficits plus accumulated off-budget surpluses. The on-budget deficits require the U.S. Treasury to borrow money to raise cash needed to keep the Government operating. We borrow the money by selling securities like Treasury bills, notes, bonds and savings bonds to the public.
The Treasury securities issued to the public and to the Government Trust Funds (Intragovernmental Holdings) then become part of the total debt. For information about the deficit, visit the Financial Management Service web site to view the Monthly Treasury Statement of Receipts and Outlays of the United States Government (MTS) (http://www.treasurydirect.gov/exit.htm?http://www.fms.treas.gov/mts/index.html).
What's the difference between the Public Debt Outstanding and the Public Debt Subject to Limit?

The Public Debt Outstanding represents the face amount or principal amount of marketable and non-marketable securities currently outstanding. The Public Debt Subject to Limit is the maximum amount of money the Government is allowed to borrow without receiving additional authority from Congress. Furthermore, the Public Debt Subject to Limit is the Public Debt Outstanding adjusted for Unamortized Discount on Treasury Bills and Zero Coupon Treasury Bonds, Miscellaneous debt (very old debt), Debt held by the Federal Financing Bank (http://www.treasurydirect.gov/exit.htm?http://www.ustreas.gov/ffb/) and Guaranteed Debt.
Why does the debt only change once a day? Why doesn't Treasury keep a rolling tab?

Our current accounting system produces the Public Debt Outstanding amount each morning around 11:30 A.M. ET. Our system relies on reporting entities (for example, Federal Reserve Banks) to report a variety of Treasury security information at the end of the day. On the following business day, our accounting system processes this information and generates the Public Debt Outstanding for the previous day. Although we continually look for methods to improve our process, daily accounting is still the most effective, efficient, and accurate way to account for the debt.
Makeup of the Debt

Is there a report that lists the type of Treasury Securities that are issued to finance the debt, related maturity dates, and "Amount Outstanding?"

The Monthly Statement of the Public Debt (MSPD) (http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/mspd/mspd.htm) is available online in summary and full versions, and lists the types of Treasury Securities issued to finance the Debt, the related maturity dates, and the "Amount Outstanding".
Ownership of the Debt

Who owns the debt?

The Treasury Bulletin (http://www.treasurydirect.gov/exit.htm?http://www.fms.treas.gov/bulletin/index.html), available online from the Financial Management Service categorizes ownership of U.S. Government securities by types of investors.
What is the Debt Held by the Public?

The Debt Held by the Public is all federal debt held by individuals, corporations, state or local governments, foreign governments, and other entities outside the United States Government less Federal Financing Bank (http://www.treasurydirect.gov/exit.htm?http://www.ustreas.gov/ffb/) securities. Types of securities held by the public include, but are not limited to, Treasury Bills, Notes, Bonds, TIPS, United States Savings Bonds (http://www.treasurydirect.gov/indiv/products/products.htm), and State and Local Government Series securities (http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/apps/slgs/slgs.htm).
What are Intragovernmental Holdings?

Intragovernmental Holdings are Government Account Series securities held by Government trust funds, revolving funds, and special funds; and Federal Financing Bank securities. A small amount of marketable securities are held by government accounts.
What is the Federal Financing Bank (http://www.treasurydirect.gov/exit.htm?http://www.ustreas.gov/ffb/)?

Obligations are issued to the public by the Federal Financing Bank (http://www.treasurydirect.gov/exit.htm?http://www.ustreas.gov/ffb/) (FFB) to finance its operations. Obligations are limited to $15 billion unless otherwise authorized by the Appropriations Acts. The FFB was established "to consolidate and reduce the government's cost of financing a variety of federal agencies and other borrowers whose obligations are guaranteed by the federal government." (The First Boston Corporation, The Pink Book: Handbook of U.S. Government & Federal Agency Securities, 34th ed., Probus, Chicago, 1990 pp. 87-88.)
Financing the Debt

Why does the debt sometimes decrease?

The Public Debt Outstanding decreases when there are more redemptions of Treasury securities than there are issues.

[TBD]

Uh, our debt is a little more complicated than that and moving to some sort of metal standard for currency isn't going to happen and for good reason.

Where did I advocate going back to a gold standard? I am a believer in it but never advocated it. Can you slain this to me?

Section 8 - Powers of Congress

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

So is it congresses responsibility to determine how much ink and paper goes into printing fiat dollars that are not even dollars but debt instruments?

Why should we pay 6% interest to a private banking cartel when the constitution only authorizes the Treasury to issue our currency?

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Where did I advocate going back to a gold standard? I am a believer in it but never advocated it. Can you slain this to me?

So is it congresses responsibility to determine how much ink and paper goes into printing fiat dollars that are not even dollars but debt instruments?

Why should we pay 6% interest to a private banking cartel when the constitution only authorizes the Treasury to issue our currency?What private bank cartel are we paying 6% to issue our money?

[TBD]

What private bank cartel are we paying 6% to issue our money?

You can choose to believe the owners of the Federal Reserve Bank and the corporate controlled media when they tell you the FED is a quasi government agency. Or you can go out and google it up and decide for yourself. Let me assure you that it is no more Federal than Federal Express and is listed in the white pages and not the blue page (gov listings). IT IS NOT FEDERAL AND HAS NO RESERVES. I highly recommend getting a copy of The Creature from Jekyll Island, by G. Edward Griffin if you care to know the truth.

"If the American people ever allow private banks
to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered." - President Thomas Jefferson

"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. Already they have raised up a monied aristocracy that has set the Government at defiance. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people to whom it properly belongs." - President Thomas Jefferson.

"Permit me to issue and control the money of a nation, and I care not who makes its laws."
- Mayer Anselm Rothschild of the Rothschild banking family.

"Every effort has been made by the Fed to conceal its power but the truth is, the Fed has usurped the government. It controls everything here and it controls all our foreign relations. It makes and breaks governments at will. "
- Congressman Louis T. McFadden, 1933, Chairman, Banking and Currency Committee

From the testimony of Marriner Eccles, Chairman of the Federal Reserve Board, before the House Banking and Currency Committee, Sept. 30, 1941:

Congressman Patman: "Mr. Eccles, how did you get the money to buy those two billions of government securities?"

Eccles: "We created it."

Patman: "Out of what?"

Eccles: "Out of the right to issue credit money."

As President John Adams said, "All the perplexities, confusion and distress (Ed. note - crime, poverty, substance abuse, family disintegration, government immorality and dishonesty, etc.) in America arise, not from defects in the Constitution or confederation, not from want of honor or virtue, so much as from downright ignorance of the nature of coin, credit and circulation." This is because nearly every part of our lives revolves around money in some way. If we clear up the money problem, all sorts of seemingly unrelated problems will simply vanish!

Lewis v. United States, 680 F.2d 1239 (1982)
John L. Lewis, Plaintiff/Appellant,
v.
United States of America, Defendant/Appellee.
No. 80-5905
United States Court of Appeals, Ninth Circuit.
Submitted March 2, 1982.
Decided April 19, 1982.
As Amended June 24, 1982.
Plaintiff, who was injured by vehicle owned and operated by a federal reserve bank, brought action alleging jurisdiction under the Federal Tort Claims Act. The United States District Court for the Central District of California, David W. Williams, J., dismissed holding that federal reserve bank was not a federal agency within meaning of Act and that the court therefore lacked subject-matter jurisdiction. Appeal was taken. The Court of Appeals, Poole, Circuit Judge, held that federal reserve banks are not federal instrumentalities for purposes of the Act, but are independent, privately owned and locally controlled corporations.


Do your own due diligence, search and you will find, knock and it will be opened to you. You won't like what you find.

[c_lazy_r]

Here we go...

[Bob]

it's not looking good. My sister in law, there in denver, ran a fair amount of wachovia lending offices wrt home mortgages. She shut entire offices down over the last week. cost of operations vs. losses due to the housing market. Some folks lost their jobs. She still handles some of the offices but less than before. she basically sees more cutbacks....dman

There are many complex reasons for this uptick in foreclosures-- but things like interest only or worse yet adjustable loans (unless you are in the military and will be moving every three years) are insane -- and let folks who cant afford to buy a home into one, and artificially inflate the prices of homes so those who want to get a fixed rate pay more than they should and get pulled thin on resources every month.

Those that want to bail these folks out do not understand that there are consequences in being stupid. Let the market punish them, it is harsh lesson and may offend the delicate sensibilities of those that feel that everything in life (including home ownership) is part of a big entitlement program, but in the long run, short-tem pain, is better than stringing this out. If you "fix" the problem you teach the morons to depend on Big Brother, and we as a group loose capacity.

There will be decent hard-working folks that are caught in this – I feel bad for them, but I think that number is less than 20%. Most of these folks thought that circumstances would change before the rates adjusted upward, or they thought they could flip the home over and get out with cash if needed. Gambling in the housing market is not a good idea for anyone, unless you have $300,000 to loose.

[broncocalijohn]

We still have many loans of sub prime that will be coming to the foreclosure forefront in 2008. This will put a linger effect possibly into middle 2009 to beg of 2010. 24 months is not unreasonable to think that this is the turning point. Save your money folks because a juicy buying spree will happen again and you can now stop wondering how that neighbor of yours could afford that house. He cant and it will be yours for the taking. Happy shopping!

[TheDave]

Sprott Asset Management has a report out you might want to read. Canadian Firm with good track record (http://www.sprott.com/pdf/marketsataglance/09-2007.pdf)

let me guess another person that thinks Gold will triple by christmas... I just love you paultards. ROFL!

[TBD]

let me guess another person that thinks Gold will triple by christmas... I just love you paultards. ROFL!

Gold is not an investment, its insurance.....period. If you think it will make you rich you are a fool. A fool and his money are soon departed. Can I assume by calling me a paultard you are not complimenting me? F-ing neocons :gus: :cuss:

[TheDave]

Gold is not an investment, its insurance.....period. If you think it will make you rich you are a fool. A fool and his money are soon departed. Can I assume by calling me a paultard you are not complimenting me? F-ing neocons :gus: :cuss:

Actually there are a few other RP followers that have said gold will go up significantly (3X is the current estimate) with the impending Global financial crisis...

...and I'm pretty far from a "neo-con". I just don't believe in enough conspiracy's to be a Ron Paul follower...

...and i love the fact that "paultard" seems to get peoples dander up so quickly.

[Spider]

wtf happened to free market ?
more damn welfare for lenders ....every republican should be screaming murder ...
perhaps the head line should have read ..Feds while getting a blow job cut interest rate ........

[Bob]

wtf happened to free market ?
more damn welfare for lenders ....every republican should be screaming murder ...
perhaps the head line should have read ..Feds while getting a blow job cut interest rate ........

Agreed!

Many of the bailouts I have seen have been directed to corporations ... screw them too.

[TBD]

Actually there are a few other RP followers that have said gold will go up significantly (3X is the current estimate) with the impending Global financial crisis...

...and I'm pretty far from a "neo-con". I just don't believe in enough conspiracy's to be a Ron Paul follower...

...and i love the fact that "paultard" seems to get peoples dander up so quickly.


I really don't care what you want to call me. Paultard has a negative conotation ie Retard right? As a new poster here I figured you might wait until I express myself a little more before clasifying me in the retard section".

Ron Paul is not a CTist. He was interviewed recently by mainstream media and asked about his being on Alex Jones show. His response was I don't agree with everything Alex says just like I don't agree with everything you stand for. When asked if he thought the US gov was involved with 9-11 he flat out said NO.

I'll gladly be a Paultard if thats what you want to call someone who believes passionatley we should follow the supreme law of the land.

Do me a favor, define conspiracy theory.

[Bronco Bob]

I really don't care what you want to call me. Paultard has a negative conotation ie Retard right? As a new poster here I figured you might wait until I express myself a little more before clasifying me in the retard section".



Yeah, TheDave was kind of mean. So of you don't like Paultard, would you
accept my term of Paulist, or what do you Ron Paul worshipers prefer to
be known as? (You folks do tend to get a bit fanatical about the guy.)

[TBD]

Yeah, TheDave was kind of mean. So of you don't like Paultard, would you
accept my term of Paulist, or what do you Ron Paul worshipers prefer to
be known as? (You folks do tend to get a bit fanatical about the guy.)

I have in every election since the early 70's voted republican, mostly straight ticket. However this republican party resembles nothing of the republican party of the past. I am a constitutionalist. Weather it is Ron Paul or John Schmuck, if they fight for following the supreme law of the land and pursue sane economic policies I will support them. Ron Paul may be "worshiped" by some who support him but I worship my Lord and Savior only. My handle is TBD and you can call me TBD or whatever you choose. Just keep in mind it's what comes out of your mouth that determines what and who you are.

[TheDave]

I really don't care what you want to call me. Paultard has a negative conotation ie Retard right? As a new poster here I figured you might wait until I express myself a little more before clasifying me in the retard section".

Not retard... a Paultard ;)

and as for clasifying people... I noticed it only took one post before you had me wrongly pegged as a "Neo Con"


Do me a favor, define conspiracy theory.

This qualifies...

Ron Paul: plans are being laid for martial law (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=60054&highlight=ron+paul)

[TBD]

Not retard... a Paultard ;)

and as for clasifying people... I noticed it only took one post before you had me wrongly pegged as a "Neo Con"



This qualifies...

Ron Paul: plans are being laid for martial law (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=60054&highlight=ron+paul)

You have a problem with the Truth?

In a stealth maneuver, President Bush has signed into law a provision which, according to Senator Patrick Leahy (D-Vermont), will actually encourage the President to declare federal martial law (1). It does so by revising the Insurrection Act, a set of laws that limits the President's ability to deploy troops within the United States. The Insurrection Act (10 U.S.C.331 -335) has historically, along with the Posse Comitatus Act (18 U.S.C.1385), helped to enforce strict prohibitions on military involvement in domestic law enforcement. With one cloaked swipe of his pen, Bush is seeking to undo those prohibitions.

Public Law 109-364, or the "John Warner Defense Authorization Act of 2007" (H.R.5122) (2), which was signed by the commander in chief on October 17th, 2006, in a private Oval Office ceremony, allows the President to declare a "public emergency" and station troops anywhere in America and take control of state-based National Guard units without the consent of the governor or local authorities, in order to "suppress public disorder."

President Bush seized this unprecedented power on the very same day that he signed the equally odious Military Commissions Act of 2006. In a sense, the two laws complement one another. One allows for torture and detention abroad, while the other seeks to enforce acquiescence at home, preparing to order the military onto the streets of America. Remember, the term for putting an area under military law enforcement control is precise; the term is "martial law."

Section 1076 of the massive Authorization Act, which grants the Pentagon another $500-plus-billion for its ill-advised adventures, is entitled, "Use of the Armed Forces in Major Public Emergencies." Section 333, "Major public emergencies; interference with State and Federal law" states that "the President may employ the armed forces, including the National Guard in Federal service, to restore public order and enforce the laws of the United States when, as a result of a natural disaster, epidemic, or other serious public health emergency, terrorist attack or incident, or other condition in any State or possession of the United States, the President determines that domestic violence has occurred to such an extent that the constituted authorities of the State or possession are incapable of ("refuse" or "fail" in) maintaining public order, "in order to suppress, in any State, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy."

For the current President, "enforcement of the laws to restore public order" means to commandeer guardsmen from any state, over the objections of local governmental, military and local police entities; ship them off to another state; conscript them in a law enforcement mode; and set them loose against "disorderly" citizenry - protesters, possibly, or those who object to forced vaccinations and quarantines in the event of a bio-terror event.

The law also facilitates militarized police round-ups and detention of protesters, so called "illegal aliens," "potential terrorists" and other "undesirables" for detention in facilities already contracted for and under construction by Halliburton. That's right. Under the cover of a trumped-up "immigration emergency" and the frenzied militarization of the southern border, detention camps are being constructed right under our noses, camps designed for anyone who resists the foreign and domestic agenda of the Bush administration.

An article on "recent contract awards" in a recent issue of the slick, insider "Journal of Counterterrorism & Homeland Security International" reported that "global engineering and technical services powerhouse KBR [Kellog, Brown & Root] announced in January 2006 that its Government and Infrastructure division was awarded an Indefinite Delivery/Indefinite Quantity (IDIQ) contract to support U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) facilities in the event of an emergency." "With a maximum total value of $385 million over a five year term," the report notes, "the contract is to be executed by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers," "for establishing temporary detention and processing capabilities to augment existing ICE Detention and Removal Operations (DRO) - in the event of an emergency influx of immigrants into the U.S., or to support the rapid development of new programs." The report points out that "KBR is the engineering and construction subsidiary of Halliburton." (3) So, in addition to authorizing another $532.8 billion for the Pentagon, including a $70-billion "supplemental provision" which covers the cost of the ongoing, mad military maneuvers in Iraq, Afghanistan, and other places, the new law, signed by the president in a private White House ceremony, further collapses the historic divide between the police and the military: a tell-tale sign of a rapidly consolidating police state in America, all accomplished amidst ongoing U.S. imperial pretensions of global domination, sold to an "emergency managed" and seemingly willfully gullible public as a "global war on terrorism."

Make no mistake about it: the de-facto repeal of the Posse Comitatus Act (PCA) is an ominous assault on American democratic tradition and jurisprudence. The 1878 Act, which reads, "Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both," is the only U.S. criminal statute that outlaws military operations directed against the American people under the cover of 'law enforcement.' As such, it has been the best protection we've had against the power-hungry intentions of an unscrupulous and reckless executive, an executive intent on using force to enforce its will.

Unfortunately, this past week, the president dealt posse comitatus, along with American democracy, a near fatal blow. Consequently, it will take an aroused citizenry to undo the damage wrought by this horrendous act, part and parcel, as we have seen, of a long train of abuses and outrages perpetrated by this authoritarian administration.

Despite the unprecedented and shocking nature of this act, there has been no outcry in the American media, and little reaction from our elected officials in Congress. On September 19th, a lone Senator Patrick Leahy (D-Vermont) noted that 2007's Defense Authorization Act contained a "widely opposed provision to allow the President more control over the National Guard [adopting] changes to the Insurrection Act, which will make it easier for this or any future President to use the military to restore domestic order WITHOUT the consent of the nation's governors."

Senator Leahy went on to stress that, "we certainly do not need to make it easier for Presidents to declare martial law. Invoking the Insurrection Act and using the military for law enforcement activities goes against some of the central tenets of our democracy. One can easily envision governors and mayors in charge of an emergency having to constantly look over their shoulders while someone who has never visited their communities gives the orders."

A few weeks later, on the 29th of September, Leahy entered into the Congressional Record that he had "grave reservations about certain provisions of the fiscal Year 2007 Defense Authorization Bill Conference Report," the language of which, he said, "subverts solid, longstanding posse comitatus statutes that limit the military's involvement in law enforcement, thereby making it easier for the President to declare martial law." This had been "slipped in," Leahy said, "as a rider with little study," while "other congressional committees with jurisdiction over these matters had no chance to comment, let alone hold hearings on, these proposals."

In a telling bit of understatement, the Senator from Vermont noted that "the implications of changing the (Posse Comitatus) Act are enormous". "There is good reason," he said, "for the constructive friction in existing law when it comes to martial law declarations. Using the military for law enforcement goes against one of the founding tenets of our democracy. We fail our Constitution, neglecting the rights of the States, when we make it easier for the President to declare martial law and trample on local and state sovereignty."

Senator Leahy's final ruminations: "Since hearing word a couple of weeks ago that this outcome was likely, I have wondered how Congress could have gotten to this point. It seems the changes to the Insurrection Act have survived the Conference because the Pentagon and the White House want it."

The historic and ominous re-writing of the Insurrection Act, accomplished in the dead of night, which gives Bush the legal authority to declare martial law, is now an accomplished fact.

The Pentagon, as one might expect, plays an even more direct role in martial law operations. Title XIV of the new law, entitled, "Homeland Defense Technology Transfer Legislative Provisions," authorizes "the Secretary of Defense to create a Homeland Defense Technology Transfer Consortium to improve the effectiveness of the Department of Defense (DOD) processes for identifying and deploying relevant DOD technology to federal, State, and local first responders."

In other words, the law facilitates the "transfer" of the newest in so-called "crowd control" technology and other weaponry designed to suppress dissent from the Pentagon to local militarized police units. The new law builds on and further codifies earlier "technology transfer" agreements, specifically the 1995 DOD-Justice Department memorandum of agreement achieved back during the Clinton-Reno regime.(4)

It has become clear in recent months that a critical mass of the American people have seen through the lies of the Bush administration; with the president's polls at an historic low, growing resistance to the war Iraq, and the Democrats likely to take back the Congress in mid-term elections, the Bush administration is on the ropes. And so it is particularly worrying that President Bush has seen fit, at this juncture to, in effect, declare himself dictator.

Source:

http://leahy.senate.gov/press/200609/091906a.html and http://leahy.senate.gov/press/200609/092906b.html See also, Congressional Research Service Report for Congress, "The Use of Federal Troops for Disaster Assistance: Legal Issues," by Jennifer K. Elsea, Legislative Attorney, August 14, 2006

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill+h109-5122

(3) Journal of Counterterrorism & Homeland Security International, "Recent Contract Awards", Summer 2006, Vol.12, No.2, pg.8; See also, Peter Dale Scott, "Homeland Security Contracts for Vast New Detention Camps," New American Media, January 31, 2006.

(4) "Technology Transfer from defense: Concealed Weapons Detection", National Institute of Justice Journal, No 229, August, 1995, pp.42-43.

[TheDave]

You have a problem with the Truth?


"Plans being laid for martial law" is only the "truth" to the Conspiracy nuts... When the time comes I'll introduce you to Capt. Mini-nukes. You two should have plenty to talk about.

[alkemical]

I really don't care what you want to call me. Paultard has a negative conotation ie Retard right? As a new poster here I figured you might wait until I express myself a little more before clasifying me in the retard section".

Ron Paul is not a CTist. He was interviewed recently by mainstream media and asked about his being on Alex Jones show. His response was I don't agree with everything Alex says just like I don't agree with everything you stand for. When asked if he thought the US gov was involved with 9-11 he flat out said NO.

I'll gladly be a Paultard if thats what you want to call someone who believes passionatley we should follow the supreme law of the land.

Do me a favor, define conspiracy theory.


conspriacy is just another word for cooperation

[alkemical]

Not retard... a Paultard ;)

and as for clasifying people... I noticed it only took one post before you had me wrongly pegged as a "Neo Con"



This qualifies...

Ron Paul: plans are being laid for martial law (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=60054&highlight=ron+paul)

Well Dave, according to some sources:

This country has been operating under a condition of "National Emergency" since March 9, 1933 when FDR declared it. Senate report 92549, issued 1973, clearly states "since 1933 the United States has been in a state of declared national emergency...A majority of people in the US have lived their entire lives under emergency rule" Since that time there have been at least 475 federal laws passed which give the president's office broad powers to act on this STILL DECLARED state of emergency (every President since FDR has declined to rescind FDR's original order. And only the acting Chief Executive has the power to do so...) including sending the military ANYWHERE w/o public or congressional approval, declare martial law domestically, restrict all forms of travel, seize assets, communications..."

*I've searched and in the few min's i put into it, cannot verify - but it is interesting....

[alkemical]

"Plans being laid for martial law" is only the "truth" to the Conspiracy nuts... When the time comes I'll introduce you to Capt. Mini-nukes. You two should have plenty to talk about.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=MOR20061029&articleId=3618

In a stealth maneuver, President Bush has signed into law a provision which, according to Senator Patrick Leahy (D-Vermont), will actually encourage the President to declare federal martial law (1). It does so by revising the Insurrection Act, a set of laws that limits the President's ability to deploy troops within the United States. The Insurrection Act (10 U.S.C.331 -335) has historically, along with the Posse Comitatus Act (18 U.S.C.1385), helped to enforce strict prohibitions on military involvement in domestic law enforcement. With one cloaked swipe of his pen, Bush is seeking to undo those prohibitions.

&

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=6169

In October 2006, Bush signed into law the John Warner National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2007, (also known under the title Department of Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2007) [The John Warner NDAA 07 was adopted on 17 October 2006]

NDAA 07 includes specific provisions which allow the military to take control of normal police and law enforcement functions at the Federal and State levels.

Sec. 1076 of the NDAA 07 overturns the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878, which prevents the military from intervening in the conduct of civilian government activities, including the conduct of Justice and Law Enforcement. Posse Comitatus has been central to the functioning of constitutional government. (It should be noted that other previous pieces of legislation have already invalidated the substance of Posse Comitatus).

What is significant in these specific provisions of NDAA 07 (Sec. 1076) is that they dovetail the provisions of Bush's National Security Presidential and Homeland Directive (NSPD 51, HSPD 20) enacted on May 9, 2007.

NSPD 51 would essentially scrap Constitutional government in the case of a so-called "Catastrophic Emergency". .

If an emergency situation were to be called by the President, NSPD 51 would instate martial law under the authority of the White House and the Department of Homeland Security. It would suspend constitutional government under the provisions of Continuity in Government (COG). It would establish extraordinary powers for the president and vice-president.

The provisions of NSPD 51 are consistent with an existing body of legislation and regulations pertaining to alleged terrorist attacks on the Homeland and the declaration of martial law. Sec. 1076 of NDAA 07 (DDAA 07), however, goes much further in defining the role of the Military in the case of a "Catastrophic Emergency."

Sec 1076 essentially defines the discretionary powers which would be conferred to the president and the vice president if NSPD 51 were to be applied.

Sec. 1076 of the NDAA 07, which was apparently slipped in at the last minute at the request of the White House as an amendment of Sec. 333, pertains to the "Use of the Armed Forces in Major Public Emergencies."



Public Law 109-364, or the "John Warner Defense Authorization Act of 2007" (H.R.5122) (2), which was signed by the commander in chief on October 17th, 2006, in a private Oval Office ceremony, allows the President to declare a "public emergency" and station troops anywhere in America and take control of state-based National Guard units without the consent of the governor or local authorities, in order to "suppress public disorder."

President Bush seized this unprecedented power on the very same day that he signed the equally odious Military Commissions Act of 2006. In a sense, the two laws complement one another. One allows for torture and detention abroad, while the other seeks to enforce acquiescence at home, preparing to order the military onto the streets of America. Remember, the term for putting an area under military law enforcement control is precise; the term is "martial law."

Section 1076 of the massive Authorization Act, which grants the Pentagon another $500-plus-billion for its ill-advised adventures, is entitled, "Use of the Armed Forces in Major Public Emergencies." Section 333, "Major public emergencies; interference with State and Federal law" states that "the President may employ the armed forces, including the National Guard in Federal service, to restore public order and enforce the laws of the United States when, as a result of a natural disaster, epidemic, or other serious public health emergency, terrorist attack or incident, or other condition in any State or possession of the United States, the President determines that domestic violence has occurred to such an extent that the constituted authorities of the State or possession are incapable of ("refuse" or "fail" in) maintaining public order, "in order to suppress, in any State, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy."

For the current President, "enforcement of the laws to restore public order" means to commandeer guardsmen from any state, over the objections of local governmental, military and local police entities; ship them off to another state; conscript them in a law enforcement mode; and set them loose against "disorderly" citizenry - protesters, possibly, or those who object to forced vaccinations and quarantines in the event of a bio-terror event.

The law also facilitates militarized police round-ups and detention of protesters, so called "illegal aliens," "potential terrorists" and other "undesirables" for detention in facilities already contracted for and under construction by Halliburton. That's right. Under the cover of a trumped-up "immigration emergency" and the frenzied militarization of the southern border, detention camps are being constructed right under our noses, camps designed for anyone who resists the foreign and domestic agenda of the Bush administration.

[alkemical]

and dave, before you jump on my **** - read up on the EO's signed then get back to me.

Thanks,

mgmt

[Bronco_Beerslug]

You can choose to believe the owners of the Federal Reserve Bank and the corporate controlled media when they tell you the FED is a quasi government agency. Or you can go out and google it up and decide for yourself. Let me assure you that it is no more Federal than Federal Express and is listed in the white pages and not the blue page (gov listings). IT IS NOT FEDERAL AND HAS NO RESERVES. I highly recommend getting a copy of The Creature from Jekyll Island, by G. Edward Griffin if you care to know the truth.
Ah, I figured this was where you were heading with this.
I do realize it's difficult for some people being left behind in the global financial world of today.

[TheDave]

and dave, before you jump on my **** - read up on the EO's signed then get back to me.

Thanks,

mgmt



I realize that this administration has done a lot of stupid things especially in the area of increasing presidential powers. But... it does not mean we are planning and/or preparing for martial law.


When January of '09 comes around and we are still living under the same set of basic freedoms we are today, the world economy is still stable, and gold is still a long way from $1800 per ounce... I'll accept your apology.

For now, I thank you for your cooporation errr... conspiracy... no wait... never mind.

[alkemical]

I realize that this administration has done a lot of stupid things especially in the area of increasing presidential powers. But... it does not mean we are planning and/or preparing for martial law.


When January of '09 comes around and we are still living under the same set of basic freedoms we are today, the world economy is still stable, and gold is still a long way from $1800 per ounce... I'll accept your apology.

For now, I thank you for your cooporation errr... conspiracy... no wait... never mind.



It's funny dave, i remember someone telling me that the US currency will always be de facto in world trade, yet it now seems to be shifting.

My concern with the martial law, is that it's quite possible. Basically, the way the EO's are written - you just need a reason or excuse. Another terrorist attack, or major natural disaster. With how shakey it appears our economy is coming (housing market, devaluation of dollar, euro moving to perferred status, gold already over $700/oz now), i'd be a bit concerned.

It is a citizens duty to be concered dave, not to just think everything is hunky-dory. What happens then IF things don't go according to your POV, would you say sorry then. I'd be willing to say not.

[Bronco Bob]

I realize that this administration has done a lot of stupid things especially in the area of increasing presidential powers. But... it does not mean we are planning and/or preparing for martial law.


When January of '09 comes around and we are still living under the same set of basic freedoms we are today, the world economy is still stable, and gold is still a long way from $1800 per ounce... I'll accept your apology.



And if not, maybe you two can work out some sort of code to communicate
by banging your tin cups on the bars of your prison cells in some concentration
camp out in the middle of the desert. :flower:

[TheDave]

It is a citizens duty to be concered dave, not to just think everything is hunky-dory. What happens then IF things don't go according to your POV, would you say sorry then. I'd be willing to say not.

If we go down the path of complete distruction...like you and others are suggesting. Not only will i apologize, i will find you in order to seek further guidance.

As for this citizens duty to be concerned... Your right. Just a word of advice. Try biting off something you can chew. I'm sure there are plenty of injustices going on in your local area. Start with things at the city, county, and/or state level. If Martial law is coming, guess what... you can't stop it. If the world economy is going to collapse, guess what... you can't stop it.

AND... Before you tell me that Ron Paul can, don't waste your breath. If martial law and economic collapse are on there way, this will happen well ahead of next November. So supporting a candidate that says the world is ending, prior to his chance of being elected, seems kind of stupid to me. But thats just me.

If you truly, in your heart, believe this is going to happen... Well... you only have 2 choices. Prepare for how you will live under the new set of rules -OR- pack your bags and figure out where America 2.0 is starting up.

[alkemical]

And if not, maybe you two can work out some sort of code to communicate
by banging your tin cups on the bars of your prison cells in some concentration
camp out in the middle of the desert. :flower:

lol - REP!

[TheDave]

And if not, maybe you two can work out some sort of code to communicate
by banging your tin cups on the bars of your prison cells in some concentration
camp out in the middle of the desert. :flower:

JMO I'm pushing for the can and string set up... Never been a fan of the cell bar morse code arrangement.

[alkemical]

If we go down the path of complete distruction...like you and others are suggesting. Not only will i apologize, i will find you in order to seek further guidance.

As for this citizens duty to be concerned... Your right. Just a word of advice. Try biting off something you can chew. I'm sure there are plenty of injustices going on in your local area. Start with things at the city, county, and/or state level. If Martial law is coming, guess what... you can't stop it. If the world economy is going to collapse, guess what... you can't stop it.

AND... Before you tell me that Ron Paul can, don't waste your breath. If martial law and economic collapse are on there way as suggested, this will happen well ahead of next November. So supporting a candidate that says the world is ending, prior to his chance of being elected, seems kind of stupid to me. But thats just me.

If you truly, in your heart, believe this is going to happen... Well... you only have 2 choices. Prepare for how you will live under the new set of rules -OR- pack your bags and figure out where America 2.0 is starting up.



Dave,

I fully agree that if "coming global collapse" is coming, there is no way *I* can stop it. Hence, i only worry about what i can do for myself and for those around me.

There are things i know how to do, and i refuse to use violence as a means to combat tyranny. I feel that violence only equals violence.

BUT - i have prepared (not with guns and survial packs) - but old jewlery that is 24k (gold) can be easily melted down into little 1oz *coins* ;)

[c_lazy_r]

Dave,

I fully agree that if "coming global collapse" is coming, there is no way *I* can stop it. Hence, i only worry about what i can do for myself and for those around me.

There are things i know how to do, and i refuse to use violence as a means to combat tyranny. I feel that violence only equals violence.

BUT - i have prepared (not with guns and survial packs) - but old jewlery that is 24k (gold) can be easily melted down into little 1oz *coins* ;)

That would be cool. I could make a coin with my likeness on it (minus the wig). Great idea!

[alkemical]

That would be cool. I could make a coin with my likeness on it (minus the wig). Great idea!

lol, i thought about putting a middle finger on it.

[c_lazy_r]

lol, i thought about putting a middle finger on it.

Nice! :approve:

But my likeness would be pretty damn...well...pretty. ;)

[alkemical]

Nice! :approve:

But my likeness would be pretty damn...well...pretty. ;)

haha!

Legally you can't use it as currency - but if times were hard enough, who is going to reject a precious metal... that's sort of my thinking behind it.