Shanahan vs. Kiffin

[Fedaykin]

I wonder, did the coaching on both sides of the ball create a bit of bad blood between Shanahan and Kiffin? Kiffin called the onside kick in the 3rd and made the Broncos look stupid, and then Shanahan makes his spectacular last second icing TO.

Is part of the reason Shanahan waited till the last second to send Kiffin a message that you don't screw with Shanhan?

Also, I thought it had to be 4th quarter for a onside to be legal?

[Vegas_Bronco]

yes

[Kaylore]

Actually I think they are on ok terms. Kiffin approached Shanahan earlier to ask advice on starting out and Shanahan told him "Don't be seen with me." Ha!

I think in this profession, most of the coaches and players are nicer to each other than we would like to believe. For a lot of these guys it's just business.

[Killericon]

I wonder, did the coaching on both sides of the ball create a bit of bad blood between Shanahan and Kiffin? Kiffin called the onside kick in the 3rd and made the Broncos look stupid, and then Shanahan makes his spectacular last second icing TO.

It's almost like both coaches were calling plays that they thought could win the game or something...

[Fedaykin]

It's almost like both coaches were calling plays that they thought could win the game or something...

Certainly, but I would certainly be annoyed if I were either coach =)

[listopencil]

Also, I thought it had to be 4th quarter for a onside to be legal?



Why in the world would you think that?

[Fedaykin]

Why in the world would you think that?

It was just what I thought.

[Kaylore]

It was just what I thought.

Why? That's a weird rule to just randomly believe exists...

[Fedaykin]

Why? That's a weird rule to just randomly believe exists...

I just assumed it was something only allowed in the closing moments in order to make close games interesting or something, much like the rules changing inside the 2 minute warning. It probably comes from it only generally only happening at the end of games. I don't watch really anything but Broncos games, so this is the first time I've seen it happen other than at the end.

[maher_tyler]

I just assumed it was something only allowed in the closing moments in order to make close games interesting or something, much like the rules changing inside the 2 minute warning. It probably comes from it only generally only happening at the end of games. I don't watch really anything but Broncos games, so this is the first time I've seen it happen other than at the end.

You can kick an onside on the opening kick off if you wanted to...

[Garcia Bronco]

That onside was chicken**** football.

[That One Guy]

Isn't onside kicks only in the 4th quarter an option for Madden?

[CHANGSTER]

Isn't onside kicks only in the 4th quarter an option for Madden?

Thats strange if it is. Im probably 1/200 on onside kicks in madden

[broncogary]

You can kick an onside on the opening kick off if you wanted to...

And I think the Eagles did just that in Andy Reid's first game as HC.

[fontaine]

That onside was chicken**** football.

No actually, it was great football.

They must have noticed Curome Cox cheating and taking his eyes OFF the kicker way ahead of time and decided to nail his a$$ to the wall on it.

I think it's great. It will make sure Cox pays a lot more attention and you know, does the job he's supposed to on ST now rather than it happening down the stretch or in the playoffs.

[broncogary]

No actually, it was great football.

They must have noticed Curome Cox cheating and taking his eyes OFF the kicker way ahead of time and decided to nail his a$$ to the wall on it.

I think it's great. It will make sure Cox pays a lot more attention and you know, does the job he's supposed to on ST now rather than it happening down the stretch or in the playoffs.

Exactly, that was a smart play on their part. I don't know if they saw it during the week or just during the first half, but our ST coaches should be embarrassed by it.

[Garcia Bronco]

No actually, it was great football.

They must have noticed Curome Cox cheating and taking his eyes OFF the kicker way ahead of time and decided to nail his a$$ to the wall on it.

I think it's great. It will make sure Cox pays a lot more attention and you know, does the job he's supposed to on ST now rather than it happening down the stretch or in the playoffs.

Every problem is an opportunity in disguise, but it is still chicken**** football.

[Garcia Bronco]

Exactly, that was a smart play on their part. I don't know if they saw it during the week or just during the first half, but our ST coaches should be embarrassed by it.

You are giving them too much credit. They did it because they are a desperate team. Desperate teams do desperate things.

[broncogary]

You are giving them too much credit. They did it because they are a desperate team. Desperate teams do desperate things.

Well, they kicked it straight at a guy who turned and ran the other way. Looked planned to me, or else they just got really lucky and Cox hadn't been doing that on any other KO's.

[Rock Chalk]

Actually I think they are on ok terms. Kiffin approached Shanahan earlier to ask advice on starting out and Shanahan told him "Don't be seen with me." Ha!

I think in this profession, most of the coaches and players are nicer to each other than we would like to believe. For a lot of these guys it's just business.

Somehow I dont think Mangini and Belicheat fall into that category anymore.

[Man-Goblin]

No actually, it was great football.

They must have noticed Curome Cox cheating and taking his eyes OFF the kicker way ahead of time and decided to nail his a$$ to the wall on it.

I think it's great. It will make sure Cox pays a lot more attention and you know, does the job he's supposed to on ST now rather than it happening down the stretch or in the playoffs.

Agreed. And the strange thing is both kickers were BOOMING the ball out the back of the endzone all day to that point. So the likelihood of him having to get downfield and throw a block was slim.

[TotallyScrewed]

Well, they kicked it straight at a guy who turned and ran the other way. Looked planned to me, or else they just got really lucky and Cox hadn't been doing that on any other KO's.

Exactly! I thought it was a great call by the Raiders. They didn't climb back into the game solely because Denver melted. They worked hard and were smart.

I thought Garcia was being flippant when he called it chicken ****. I guess I was wrong. I guess you shouldn't "play to win" if it makes you chicken ****.

[fontaine]

Every problem is an opportunity in disguise, but it is still chicken**** football.

Why is it chicken**** football? Because you say so?
:spit:

I dunno who called it, and I don't want to give a raider coach too much credit but Kiffin made some gutsy calls in that game and at least looked semi-competent compared to Art Shell's confused and befuddled expression on the sidelines.

Shanny did something similar in calling a last second TO to ice fatatowski.

Smart plays by good coaches going with their gut.

[fontaine]

You are giving them too much credit. They did it because they are a desperate team. Desperate teams do desperate things.

The fade have been a desperate team the last few years. How many years have they gone without an AFC west win?

Didn't see them executing stuff like that before tho.

Hopefully our STs was paying attention because they could learn a lot from them. Like tracking and tackling for starters.

Champ freakin' Bailey has to play ST for us and both weeks he's had to make TD saving tackles after a huge gain. Mutha****** special teams better not get this guy hurt or there will be hell to pay.

It's like taking a thoroughbred racehorse, putting a yoke on him and making him plow a rocky field.

[ScottXray]

I wonder, did the coaching on both sides of the ball create a bit of bad blood between Shanahan and Kiffin? Kiffin called the onside kick in the 3rd and made the Broncos look stupid, and then Shanahan makes his spectacular last second icing TO.

Is part of the reason Shanahan waited till the last second to send Kiffin a message that you don't screw with Shanhan?

Also, I thought it had to be 4th quarter for a onside to be legal?

On sides are legal ANYTIME.

In 75 we played the world champion steelers in our opener...We opened the game with an Onside..recovered and took it in and scored.

The game ended 35-35 tie. the first Regular season overtime game played in the NFL...and no one scored.

:strong:

[Atwater His Ass]

It's not chicken **** football. It's called good play calling.

You could call Shanny's timeout chicken **** too, but it was a great strategic move.

You do whatever you can to win games, period.

[Raidersbane]

On sides are legal ANYTIME.

In 75 we played the world champion steelers in our opener...We opened the game with an Onside..recovered and took it in and scored.

The game ended 35-35 tie. the first Regular season overtime game played in the NFL...and no one scored.

:strong:



I remember my old man drew 5 and 5 in the local bar pool for that game and won 50 bucks......That was a Monday nighter wasn't it?

[Bladerunner]

I doubt any animosity is held by either coach. There is nothing chicken-**** or sneaky or slippery or spectacular or brilliant about either the on-side kick or the time out. They are both normal coaching calls. I don't understand the hub-ub about either one.

I doubt that Oakland just pulled it out of thin air though, it seems more likely that they spotted undisciplined play by Cox and took a shot at him. It worked. That's a normal, solid coaching call.

The time out is even more mundane. The only reasons it is even talked about at all are: Janikowski missed the ensuing attempt, and that Denver went on to win the game.

I've seen such time outs called quite frequently, typically with no effect, sometimes even with the opposite fo the intended effect. It's not special, just a coaching decision that worked out this time. Thankfully.

[theAPAOps5]

Actually I think they are on ok terms. Kiffin approached Shanahan earlier to ask advice on starting out and Shanahan told him "Don't be seen with me." Ha!


The best part of that whole story is after Shanahan said that Kiffin laughed and thought it was a joke. Then Shanny said, "No seriously, you do not want to be seen with me!"

That just made me laugh.

[Broncos123]

No actually, it was great football.

They must have noticed Curome Cox cheating and taking his eyes OFF the kicker way ahead of time and decided to nail his a$$ to the wall on it.

I think it's great. It will make sure Cox pays a lot more attention and you know, does the job he's supposed to on ST now rather than it happening down the stretch or in the playoffs.

I am just glad that they did this to Cox now becasue it won't happen again.

[broncosteven]

The fade have been a desperate team the last few years. How many years have they gone without an AFC west win?

Didn't see them executing stuff like that before tho.

Hopefully our STs was paying attention because they could learn a lot from them. Like tracking and tackling for starters.

Champ freakin' Bailey has to play ST for us and both weeks he's had to make TD saving tackles after a huge gain. Mutha****** special teams better not get this guy hurt or there will be hell to pay.

It's like taking a thoroughbred racehorse, putting a yoke on him and making him plow a rocky field.


Ray Freaking Nitshcke played ST's for Green Bay during their Championship seasons.

An injury can happen at any time, I would rather have a TD saving tackle than lose a game off a quick (what I consider cheap) ST return.

[Garcia Bronco]

It's chicken**** because it was the middle of the 3rd quarter. It's chicken**** because they didn't need to do it, and didn't want to put their defense back on the field and man up to stop our offense and get the ball back. But God knew, and that's why homeboy doinked it off the up right.

[Garcia Bronco]

It's not chicken **** football. It's called good play calling.

You could call Shanny's timeout chicken **** too, but it was a great strategic move.

You do whatever you can to win games, period.

It's chicken**** football, and last I checked the Raiders didn't win with their chicken**** ways.

[Garcia Bronco]

I doubt any animosity is held by either coach. There is nothing chicken-**** or sneaky or slippery or spectacular or brilliant about either the on-side kick or the time out. They are both normal coaching calls. I don't understand the hub-ub about either one.
.

When was the last time you saw an OSK in the middle of the 3rd Qt when it's not needed? Fisher pulled that crap several years ago.....and the time before that? I can't think of one.

[broncosteven]

It's chicken**** because it was the middle of the 3rd quarter. It's chicken**** because they didn't need to do it, and didn't want to put their defense back on the field and man up to stop our offense and get the ball back. But God knew, and that's why homeboy doinked it off the up right.

They had the Mo and someone from Butt-pirate land caught the tendancy on film so I have to applaud it. Lucky it didn't cost us anything other than field position.

What I would consider chicken **** is when steelgirls or dolts would call onsides on opening kickoffs.

[Bladerunner]

When was the last time you saw an OSK in the middle of the 3rd Qt when it's not needed? Fisher pulled that crap several years ago.....and the time before that? I can't think of one.

Eh...the Steelers tried it two years ago against the Colts, to open the 2nd half (not technically within your criteria, but close enough I think). I thought that one reeked of desperation more than the Raiders one did. The Steelers have always been kind of gimmicky though, at least they were under Cower.

[Garcia Bronco]

They had the Mo and someone from Butt-pirate land caught the tendancy on film so I have to applaud it. Lucky it didn't cost us anything other than field position.

What I would consider chicken **** is when steelgirls or dolts would call onsides on opening kickoffs.

Neither holds a candle to Manning quick snapping to keep a defense from putting in subs.

[Bladerunner]

Regardless of when it happens or under what conditions, it's not chicken-****...it's a calculated risk play that isn't called often. I don't understand the thinking here with being up in arms about an on-side kick...it's totally legitimate. No different than a fake field goal or fake punt, or flea-flicker or half-back option. To me, an uncommon play does not equate to chicken-****, it's just uncommon.

[isiddiqi]

I feel a coach should do anything within the limits of rules and un-Bilicheat like in the interest of putting his team in the best situation to win the game. Specially if the coach thinks that he is going against a good team, like Kiffin thought, and went for the onside kick. All that matters at the end is the W.

[Bladerunner]

Neither holds a candle to Manning quick snapping to keep a defense from putting in subs.

lol..you sound like one of those UFC fighters with weak ground skills..."If he would have just let me up, I'd have kicked his ass."

[bombquixote]

It's chicken**** because it was the middle of the 3rd quarter. It's chicken**** because they didn't need to do it, and didn't want to put their defense back on the field and man up to stop our offense and get the ball back. But God knew, and that's why homeboy doinked it off the up right.

C'mon, if Shanny had pulled that one you'd be calling it brilliant football. And it was brilliant football because it managed exactly what you're complaining about: it kept the ball away from our offense when they still had some hint of momentum. And it made the faid believe they could steal the game.

Personally I loved it. It's been too long since the Broncos/Faiders were a respectable rivalry. I've missed it.

And we won, so ****'em. :smashraid

[TheChamp24]

I love how the Raider fans think the TO Shanny called was BS, and how theres a little write up on ESPN on how the rule should be changed. I'm sorry, but the TO was BEFORE the snap, and thus, it counted.

[BroncoBuff]

Actually I think they are on ok terms. Kiffin approached Shanahan earlier to ask advice on starting out and Shanahan told him "Don't be seen with me." Ha!
That's right - at an offseason coaches thing according to Gannon. Apparently Shanahan was serious too.

I don't think the onside kick or anything else was even the slightest bit personal. Shanahan is a wildly fiery competitor - but I can't recall him ever showing a coach up. In his dozen years here, he has quite regularly "called off the dogs" when things get out of control, and he always has a nice thing to say about an opponent coach - Marvin Lewis after the '03 season opener in Cincy, and many others including Belichick in his hour of need last week.