Poll: Camergate Fallout

[Atwater His Ass]

What is your thought on how the league will discipline New England? Pick all that apply.

EDIT: Disregard the "only" on the fine. Also, draft pick from 2-4 should be 3-4. I suck at polls apprantly.

[orinjkrush]

there is really only one way to make sure the rest of the league pays attention: in Ws and Ls. Give the game to the Jets. Wont happen again.

[Northman]

They should lose a 2-4th round pick.

[Atwater His Ass]

I think they'll lose a mid round pick, be fined, and bellecheat will be suspended for 1 game.

I don't know the last time a game was forfeited by league mandate, that seems harsh to me, but I wouldn't be totally against it either.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Forfeit high picks and multiple round picks, suspension for Belitricks of 8 games or more. If Wade Wilson got 4 games for a banned substance and he's not on the field, then Coach Cheater has to get at least double that. I also wonder how many assistant coaches knew what was going on. Could we see other suspensions? Maybe Kraft will have to coach them from here on out...;D

[Bronco Billy]

Multiple draft picks (1st and 3rd) and Belicheck suspension - maybe 4-6 games. In m mind, it is more severe that Wilson's offense and he received 4 games.

I always used to like Belicheck, but there's no excuse for violating a rule when the Commish sent a memo out at the start of the season specfically pointing out that it was prohibited.

[Caligula]

Goodall suspended the Cowboy's QB coach for taking steroids. Obviously the coach taking steroids wasn't going to affect the outcome of ANY game...yet he was making a point. He was telling EVERYONE that the rules apply to EVERYONE within the organization and those that have direct influence to the players. The coaches are NOT above being suspended.

These coaches got caught BIG TIME for cheating. This is bigger than the QB coach taking steroids. This is cheating that has a direct influence as to the outcome of any game, AND it was the VERY RULE that Goodall warned about on Sept 6th, three days before the opener. Goodall gave the Patriots and Belicheck and OUT by literally saying "We know you are doing it, stop doing it now." Instead, the Pats thought they were above the rules.

I don't see how they don't suspend the HC for this? How do you not acknowledge the precedent set? If Goodall was trying to send a message about EVERYONE is to be held accountable for cheating, coaches or players, then this is no different.

I personally think they should take the win away from them, take away multible draft choices, and suspend Belicheck for a MINIMUM of 5 games (the same amount that the QB coach received). This is no different than if they had put a microphone in the other team's huddle. The advantage this gave their team is unbelievable, and I personally think they were doing MUCH more than just stealing the DEFENSIVE calls. I think the frequencies that the NFL caught (not a coincidence that they were LOOKING for the frequencies, nor a coincidence that this is the year the NFL has the green dots) are going to show that either the Patriots have someone on defense with a microphoned helmet, they are talking to Brady LONGER than the NFL allows, or (what I believe) they were stealing the signals sent into the QB from their radio signals.

[55CrushEm]

Multiple draft picks (1st and 3rd) and Belicheck suspension - maybe 4-6 games. In m mind, it is more severe that Wilson's offense and he received 4 games.

I always used to like Belicheck, but there's no excuse for violating a rule when the Commish sent a memo out at the start of the season specfically pointing out that it was prohibited.

That's just it.....as someone said earlier...it's as if Belicheat is saying to the NFL, "F-you. We're the Patriots, and I'm Mighty Bill. What are you going to do about it?"

We're about to find out.....

Also, on NFL Live they made a good point.....the friggin' cheaters didn't even wait....right away, in Week 1, they just go ahead and do what they want....right after, as you say, Goodell issued the memo.

[Atwater His Ass]

So kind of a new question I suppose. Will another coach on the staff take the fall so Bellechick avoids suspension? Or will the league go right to the top regadless of alleged involvement by him or not? AKA will the league buy the "I didn't know about it defense" or make the HC responsible for his staff regardless?

[OrangeShadow]

well i think BB should be suspended for 4 games. so i voted for both the less than and more than 4 games option ;D

[Caligula]

So kind of a new question I suppose. Will another coach on the staff take the fall so Bellechick avoids suspension? Or will the league go right to the top regadless of alleged involvement by him or not? AKA will the league buy the "I didn't know about it defense" or make the HC responsible for his staff regardless?

I'm thinking this is whats going to happen. SOmeone will take the blame, and the Patriots will make up for it with some kind of big severance package. This way the Patriots and Belicheck can say "we didn't know anything about it" and deflect the blame onto someone else.

[snowtrx]

I personally think they should take the win away from them, take away multible draft choices, and suspend Belicheck for a MINIMUM of 5 games (the same amount that the QB coach received). This is no different than if they had put a microphone in the other team's huddle. The advantage this gave their team is unbelievable, and I personally think they were doing MUCH more than just stealing the DEFENSIVE calls. I think the frequencies that the NFL caught (not a coincidence that they were LOOKING for the frequencies, nor a coincidence that this is the year the NFL has the green dots) are going to show that either the Patriots have someone on defense with a microphoned helmet, they are talking to Brady LONGER than the NFL allows, or (what I believe) they were stealing the signals sent into the QB from their radio signals.

So what World Trade Center conspiracy do you believe exactly? U with Bart Simpson and believe MLB is spying on us through satellites?
Geez, relax Caligula. Goodell and staff have done a good job so far and deserve the opportunity to do their jobs in discovering all the details and deciding the appropriate punishment. Your oppinion reaks of disdane for the Pats and immaturity to the point where you just need to shut up. Guess what buddy, everyone cheats. The Broncos cheated (Cap), Cowboys (Cocain), Steelers (Steroids), Giants (Cocain/Hookers to opposing team) 49ers (Cap) all cheated. Some got caught, took their punishment and moved on, some didnt moved on.

[Atwater His Ass]

I'm thinking this is whats going to happen. SOmeone will take the blame, and the Patriots will make up for it with some kind of big severance package. This way the Patriots and Belicheck can say "we didn't know anything about it" and deflect the blame onto someone else.

I agreed with this line of thought at first too. However, I think the league needs to make the HC responsible for those under him. There is no way that Bellechick didn't know this was going on, even if the guy who filmed it was reporting it to the OC, for example and not Bellechick himself. The league, imo, will be sending the wrong message if they make any kind of suspension that doesn't include Bellechick.

[Atwater His Ass]

So what World Trade Center conspiracy do you believe exactly? U with Bart Simpson and believe MLB is spying on us through satellites?
Geez, relax Caligula. Goodell and staff have done a good job so far and deserve the opportunity to do their jobs in discovering all the details and deciding the appropriate punishment. Your oppinion reaks of disdane for the Pats and immaturity to the point where you just need to shut up. Guess what buddy, everyone cheats. The Broncos cheated (Cap), Cowboys (Cocain), Steelers (Steroids), Giants (Cocain/Hookers to opposing team) 49ers (Cap) all cheated. Some got caught, took their punishment and moved on, some didnt moved on.

But there is at least some sort of precedence with his line of thinking. Look at the suspension to the Cowboys coach and the loss of draft picks from Denver for the severance pay. And these were issues that didn't provide a competitive advantage at all.

I would not be surprised based on those facts coupled with how Goodell has managed the league thus far, that a huge penalty is handed down.

[Punisher]

Its crazy there always have to be a cheater all the time..just play thats all please just stop all the cheating

[snowtrx]

This is no different than if they had put a microphone in the other team's huddle.

ps: if doing the same thing that every coaching staff and player has been doing since the beginning of organized football, but with a video camera to anaylize at a later time, is the same thing as a microphone in the huddle, then sign me up!!! Can u please include the package that just relays the decripted info (since every teams terminology is different) straight to my staff, QB, and whatever secret device the D gets. ;)

Thanks.

[Garcia Bronco]

I really don't give a crap. People that "cheat" or do anything dishonest always get what's coming to them.

[Caligula]

So what World Trade Center conspiracy do you believe exactly? U with Bart Simpson and believe MLB is spying on us through satellites?
Geez, relax Caligula. Goodell and staff have done a good job so far and deserve the opportunity to do their jobs in discovering all the details and deciding the appropriate punishment. Your oppinion reaks of disdane for the Pats and immaturity to the point where you just need to shut up. Guess what buddy, everyone cheats. The Broncos cheated (Cap), Cowboys (Cocain), Steelers (Steroids), Giants (Cocain/Hookers to opposing team) 49ers (Cap) all cheated. Some got caught, took their punishment and moved on, some didnt moved on.

* laughs*.. cute

For one, if you want to look up the facts, the Broncos didn't cheat the cap *shrugs*.. just for your info since you are stating facts that are just wrong.

TWO.. the difference in ALL those other cases, is that NONE of them had a DIRECT change over the VERY game they were playing. None. Taking steroids never can change the way the ENTIRE team performs and changes DURING the game. NONE of those accusations that you infer to are anything NEAR this. This isn't a conspiracy theory. We are literally watching/seeing a coach CHEAT before us. We can SEE the camera man pointing his camera and filming the coaches. We can SEE the film that was confiscated. We know that the coaches can (legally) get polaroids of before and after snap pictures. We know that they can simply compare the signals to the calls on the field, and BAM.. .they LITERALLY are listening into the huddle of the defense. Thats not conspiracy. Thats not made up. Thats BLATANT cheating. So this is different.

PLUS.. this is the team that has "somehow" been able to win with what appeared to be less 'talent' on the team. The QB able to win THREE SBs with no real WR. The Defense unbelievable despite having no big 'stars'... the coach having the innate ability to make the 'brilliant' adjustments at halftime, and a team that wishes to claim a 'dynasty.' So its very MUCh different than anything you are pointing out.

I don't have conspiracy theories. I didn't have a hate for the Patriots. I rooted against them, but always admired what they were able to accomplish. Now.. now I don't at all. Now I see that their 'brilliant' play calling, their 'unbelievable' success...their 'genius' at halftime was due to flat-out CHEATING. So why would I NOT believe that the unexplained radio frequencies would just be more cheating? They were getting away with this, they ignored the warning from the commissioner just THREE days before the opening day. Why would I believe for a moment that they weren't finding a way to CHEAT and steal the offensive calls just as they cheated and stole the defensive calls? I don't believe its a coincidence that the NFL put the green dots on the helmets the VERY same season the Patriots were caught in game ONE of cheating calls and finding 'illegal' frequencies and not getting explanations for their communication system.

You call it paranoid.. I call it flat out disgusted

[JCMElway]

I thin they lose a 2nd and 4th round pick, along with a stiff fine for the team, say, one million.

Now I think that the Pats should forfiet the game, Bellicheck should be suspended for two games, and the fine as well.

[Caligula]

ps: if doing the same thing that every coaching staff and player has been doing since the beginning of organized football, but with a video camera to anaylize at a later time, is the same thing as a microphone in the huddle, then sign me up!!! Can u please include the package that just relays the decripted info (since every teams terminology is different) straight to my staff, QB, and whatever secret device the D gets. ;)

Thanks.

Sure.. I'll explain it to you.

EVERY team gets a legal picture (polaroid) of the defense pre-snap and post snap on the field. Now you take the video tape that you ahve been illegally taking at the end of the quarter or half... match it up with the calls that are showing on the field...and you have the hand signals that corrospond to the calls on the field and what they are doing.

So the second half of the game, the Patriots watch the signals being sent into the defense and they will know if they are in zone, man-to-man, or who's blitzing. Knowing that CERTAINLY helps out the offense when calling in protection packages, routes, and plays. THe QB certainly has the advantage if the OC says "hey, we think they are blitzing from the right, be sure to put the TE in motion to that side and WR Z should have the one-on-one coverage." How easy is it if you have everything covered. You know their defense, you have the right protection package, and know where the weak points of the defense that is already called??

THAT is how you can USE the video tape on the SAME game. It has NOTHING to do with 'deciphering' any play calls and terminology.

[snowtrx]

I would not be surprised based on those facts coupled with how Goodell has managed the league thus far, that a huge penalty is handed down.

If clubs are not allowed to video tape the signals, then punish the hell out of em. Especially if the league went out of their way to point this out to you. Goodell has proven his intentions on cleaning up the game and will continue to do a good job. I'm guessing a big fine for the Pats and a couple middle round picks removed, but I don't know all the facts. I do believe that stealing signals is not that big of a deal and would end up backfiring on you more often then not.

Honestly I am shocked this is the first time we have heard about recording everything the coaches do on the sidelines. Shanahan has admitted trying to steal signals. Marty Shottenhimer (no clue how to spell that) had a specific role on his staff for this and others have used lip readers. Thats why coaches protect this info from spy tactics like covering their mouths and rotating their signals as they see fit.

[sixtimeseight]

ps: if doing the same thing that every coaching staff and player has been doing since the beginning of organized football, but with a video camera to anaylize at a later time, is the same thing as a microphone in the huddle, then sign me up!!! Can u please include the package that just relays the decripted info (since every teams terminology is different) straight to my staff, QB, and whatever secret device the D gets. ;)

Thanks.

Serious question.... are you retarded?

[sirhcyennek81]

If clubs are not allowed to video tape the signals, then punish the hell out of em. Especially if the league went out of their way to point this out to you. Goodell has proven his intentions on cleaning up the game and will continue to do a good job. I'm guessing a big fine for the Pats and a couple middle round picks removed, but I don't know all the facts. I do believe that stealing signals is not that big of a deal and would end up backfiring on you more often then not.

Honestly I am shocked this is the first time we have heard about recording everything the coaches do on the sidelines. Shanahan has admitted trying to steal signals. Marty Shottenhimer (no clue how to spell that) had a specific role on his staff for this and others have used lip readers. Thats why coaches protect this info from spy tactics like covering their mouths and rotating their signals as they see fit.



If? Seriously, are you retarded?



:Broncos:

[snowtrx]

* laughs*.. cute

For one, if you want to look up the facts, the Broncos didn't cheat the cap *shrugs*.. just for your info since you are stating facts that are just wrong.
You call it paranoid.. I call it flat out disgusted


The Broncos screwed with severance pay and how it applied to the cap. It was viewed and determined to be cheating the rules and we lost picks. What more is there to this story???

Since when have the Pats been known as a team of half time adjustments? Did they adjust against the Colts at halftime last year? Was it 2nd half adjustments against SD or simply SD spontaniously combusting? All three superbowls they played worse in the 2nd half and let the other teams hang around/catch up to the point where they needed the last drive of the game? Did they adjust against Denver 2 years ago in the 2nd half when Denver put away a close game in the 2nd half?

Until you can help me understand the Pats being a team of 2nd half adjustments, I'm just gonna consider you paranoid.

[sirhcyennek81]

The Broncos screwed with severance pay and how it applied to the cap. It was viewed and determined to be cheating the rules and we lost picks. What more is there to this story???

Since when have the Pats been known as a team of half time adjustments? Did they adjust against the Colts at halftime last year? Was it 2nd half adjustments against SD or simply SD spontaniously combusting? All three superbowls they played worse in the 2nd half and let the other teams hang around/catch up to the point where they needed the last drive of the game? Did they adjust against Denver 2 years ago in the 2nd half when Denver put away a close game in the 2nd half?

Until you can help me understand the Pats being a team of 2nd half adjustments, I'm just gonna consider you paranoid.



You have to have something wrong with you...did your mom feed you lead paint chips or something?


:Broncos:

[snowtrx]

Serious question.... are you retarded?

I'm not the one trying to sell this crap. Did you even read his post?

[snowtrx]

I really don't give a crap. People that "cheat" or do anything dishonest always get what's coming to them.


Hopefully we can get to the day where that is 100% the truth.

[sirhcyennek81]

I'm not the one trying to sell this crap. Did you even read his post?


Its obvious you did not.


:Broncos:

[snowtrx]

If? Seriously, are you retarded?

:Broncos:

I dont know the letter of the rules. The point of the "if" is because I am in no position to determine this. Goodell is, he has all the info and applicable previous knowledge.

[snowtrx]

Its obvious you did not.


:Broncos:

So what did you take from him saying he personnaly feels that the Pats have radios for the D, that they take more time than allowed when talking to the QB...................

nevermind, I just realized I'm having a discussion with 2 people that cant discuss their points with any substance and so they resort to name calling. Let me give you a link sirhcyennek81, I think your arguments will be better suited for this type of audience.
Caligula, this is not intended for you. Thanks for coming back with your clearly thought out opinion to my thought.

www.chiefsplanet.com

[Paladin]

:deadhorse

Che sera, sera.

[sirhcyennek81]

So what did you take from him saying he personnaly feels that the Pats have radios for the D, that they take more time than allowed when talking to the QB...................

nevermind, I just realized I'm having a discussion with 2 people that cant discuss their points with any substance and so they resort to name calling. Let me give you a link sirhcyennek81, I think your arguments will be better suited for this type of audience.
Caligula, this is not intended for you. Thanks for coming back with your clearly thought out opinion to my thought.

www.chiefsplanet.com


I can't help that you are a dumbass dude.


:Broncos:

[TomServo]

i have another way novel way to punish the pats. how about taking away bradys mic'ed up helmet for the rest of the season and he and coach cheater have to revert to hand signals?

[400HZ]

I think Tom Brady should be transferred to the Browns roster. He had to have known that something was going on.

[Bronco Yoda]

* laughs*.. cute

For one, if you want to look up the facts, the Broncos didn't cheat the cap *shrugs*.. just for your info since you are stating facts that are just wrong.

TWO.. the difference in ALL those other cases, is that NONE of them had a DIRECT change over the VERY game they were playing. None. Taking steroids never can change the way the ENTIRE team performs and changes DURING the game. NONE of those accusations that you infer to are anything NEAR this. This isn't a conspiracy theory. We are literally watching/seeing a coach CHEAT before us. We can SEE the camera man pointing his camera and filming the coaches. We can SEE the film that was confiscated. We know that the coaches can (legally) get polaroids of before and after snap pictures. We know that they can simply compare the signals to the calls on the field, and BAM.. .they LITERALLY are listening into the huddle of the defense. Thats not conspiracy. Thats not made up. Thats BLATANT cheating. So this is different.

PLUS.. this is the team that has "somehow" been able to win with what appeared to be less 'talent' on the team. The QB able to win THREE SBs with no real WR. The Defense unbelievable despite having no big 'stars'... the coach having the innate ability to make the 'brilliant' adjustments at halftime, and a team that wishes to claim a 'dynasty.' So its very MUCh different than anything you are pointing out.

I don't have conspiracy theories. I didn't have a hate for the Patriots. I rooted against them, but always admired what they were able to accomplish. Now.. now I don't at all. Now I see that their 'brilliant' play calling, their 'unbelievable' success...their 'genius' at halftime was due to flat-out CHEATING. So why would I NOT believe that the unexplained radio frequencies would just be more cheating? They were getting away with this, they ignored the warning from the commissioner just THREE days before the opening day. Why would I believe for a moment that they weren't finding a way to CHEAT and steal the offensive calls just as they cheated and stole the defensive calls? I don't believe its a coincidence that the NFL put the green dots on the helmets the VERY same season the Patriots were caught in game ONE of cheating calls and finding 'illegal' frequencies and not getting explanations for their communication system.

You call it paranoid.. I call it flat out disgusted

this deserves a bump :thumbsup:

[serious hops]

As i suggested on another forum, I think they should be forced to re-sign Reche Caldwell and Monty Beisel.

[Crushaholic]

As I said in another thread, the NFL won't make them forfeit the win because of the consequences in Vegas. Screwing up the books in Vegas isn't something Goodell wants to do. I voted for them to lose their high draft picks and Coach suspended for less than 4 games...

[Atwater His Ass]

If clubs are not allowed to video tape the signals, then punish the hell out of em. Especially if the league went out of their way to point this out to you. Goodell has proven his intentions on cleaning up the game and will continue to do a good job. I'm guessing a big fine for the Pats and a couple middle round picks removed, but I don't know all the facts. I do believe that stealing signals is not that big of a deal and would end up backfiring on you more often then not.

Honestly I am shocked this is the first time we have heard about recording everything the coaches do on the sidelines. Shanahan has admitted trying to steal signals. Marty Shottenhimer (no clue how to spell that) had a specific role on his staff for this and others have used lip readers. Thats why coaches protect this info from spy tactics like covering their mouths and rotating their signals as they see fit.

Clubs are not allowed to video tape. It is an explicit league rule. Having a guy with binoculars is legal. Vidoe taping not so much.

Also keep in mind, that the punishment Denver recieved was for not funding severance accounts for Elway and Davis. This money was still counted against the cap. It was Bowlen attempting to save some actual cash in order to help with the new stadium. This money was in no way spent on other players or provided any competitive advantage.

[Phantom]

$300,000 fine, suspend coach two games, loss of 2nd and 4th round draft picks.

[Kaylore]

I agree with what others have said. Loss of a couple of draft picks, a fine and a coach suspension.

[Rock Chalk]

Isnt video taping against the LAW at sporting events as well as being against the rules?

[Atwater His Ass]

Isnt video taping against the LAW at sporting events as well as being against the rules?

I believe it's only illegal if you are planning to make a profit from it somehow so it would be ok for personal use only, but I could be wrong here.