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Jens1893
09-11-2007, 06:08 PM
From Pat Forde on ESPN.com

Domers, Your Credibility Is On The Clock
When Notre Dame (2) trap-doored Tyrone Willingham (3) after just three years on the job in 2004, it established a precedent for the next coach:

You've got three years, pal. Have it up and running at full speed or else.

Charlie Weis

Tom "Mo" Moschella/Icon SMI

Charlie Weis and the Irish are off to an 0-2 start in his third season at South Bend.

Or at least that should have been the established precedent, if Notre Dame was interested in treating its next coach the same way it treated the first African-American coach in the school's history. But Charlie Weis (4) probably can go 2-10 in this, his third year, and still be back in 2008.

Why? The simple answer is fairness -- the majority of coaches should get a fourth season, no matter how the third one turned out. But since fairness didn't factor in with Willingham (6-5 in year three, 21-15 overall), The Dash will offer another reason.

Weis (0-2 in year three, 19-8 overall) was awarded a 10-year, $30 million-plus contract during his first season -- something that would make a firing very costly. He got the contract largely on the strength of a close loss to a great USC team and some interest from the NFL -- although Weis said at his introductory news conference in December 2004, "I don't come here to leave and take a job in the NFL in three years. This is not a stepping stone. This is an end-all for our family. When we come to Notre Dame, we come here with the intent of retiring here."

So either Notre Dame hysterically overbid to keep an unproven coach who had no intention of going anywhere, or else Weis' loyalty pledge turned weak enough that the school felt compelled to overpay to keep him. Either way, Charlie and the Irish would appear joined at the hip -- even while the Notre Dame of Weis' third season is starting to bear strong resemblance to the Notre Dame of Ty Willingham's intolerable third season.

Actually, it's worse. Far worse. That doesn't mean it can't turn around, but the current product is dreadful.

Dating back to last season, the Irish have lost four consecutive games by at least 20 points. Last time Notre Dame lost four straight by 20 or more? How does never sound? But then again, they've only been playing football in South Bend since 1887.

(One of the big knocks on Willingham, by the way, was too many blowout losses.)

It could turn out that the teams that ripped the Irish this year, Georgia Tech (5) and Penn State (6), are the best teams in the ACC and Big Ten, respectively. But that would only continue Weis' trend of beating the bad teams and losing to the good ones. He's 4-6 against ranked opponents (including four straight lopsided losses) and 15-2 against the unranked.

Average end-of-season Sagarin rating for the 19 teams Weis has beaten: 62nd. Average end-of-season Sagarin rating for the 21 teams Willingham beat from 2002-04: 55th.

The one thing Weis was supposed to deliver was a state-of-the-art offense capable of carving up any defense. He did that -- when Willingham's players were there.

The 2007 Irish have not scored an offensive touchdown, even though Weis told his players his first season they would have a "decided schematic advantage" in every game. Some advantage: They've scored 13 points on the season -- fewest through the first two games of the year since 1942. They're last in the nation in rushing offense and total offense.

Tyrone Willingham

AP Photo/Ted S. Warren

Former Irish coach Ty Willingham has Washington off to a 2-0 start this season.
The easy fall guy for Domers protective of Weis is the same fall guy they pounded in 2003 and '04: Willingham. They'll tell you his lackluster recruiting left the cupboard bare, setting the stage for this difficult season.

They like to talk about the rankings of recruiting classes. The Dash likes to talk about productivity. For instance:

Of the 856 points Notre Dame has scored with Weis as head coach, 19 of them have been scored by players who originally committed to and signed with him. That includes the defensive touchdown, the extra point and two field goals that constitute this season's scoring. A Weis recruit has scored exactly one offensive touchdown in 27 games: George West (7) on an 11-yard run last season against Purdue, one of three times West touched the ball from scrimmage in 2006.

It's true that Weis coached many of Willingham's players better than Willingham ever did. It's also true that Weis owes Willingham a large debt for at least getting the likes of Brady Quinn, Jeff Samardzija and Darius Walker on campus.

Meanwhile, Washington (8) is 2-0 in its third season under Willingham, having won by 30 points on the road to open the season and then ending the nation's longest winning streak in a two-touchdown upset of Boise State (9).

Willingham is in a place that suits him better than Notre Dame ever did. He might never have won truly big in South Bend, and might never have been truly happy.

But the criticism of Willingham was as excessive as the praise (and compensation) accorded Weis. That's the double standard Notre Dame has set in place, and the double standard it must live with.

Billy Clyde Puckett
09-12-2007, 10:49 PM
All the ND fans are blaming Willingham for poor recruiting years, but Willingham is off to a great start at Washington this year. I bet we could put together a team from the Mane that could run on ND this year. I am no UM guy, but it wouldn't surprise me to see Hart run for 300 yards against ND this week to break them out of their funk.

Maybe ND and Cleveland are proving that it was not good coachin that made winners out of the Pats, but the extra curricular activities.

Billy Clyde Puckett
09-14-2007, 04:50 PM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/dr_z/09/13/cheating/index.html?eref=T1


Marinelli was the defensive line coach in Tampa Bay when the Bucs beat the Patriots in the 2000 regular season opener and did a good job controlling New England's offense. After the game the Patriots' offensive coach, Charlie Weis, was overheard congratulating the Bucs' defensive coordinator, Monte Kiffin.

"We knew all your calls, and you still stopped us," Weis said. "I can't believe it."

He couldn't believe it because the Patriots had videotaped all of the defensive signals in their last preseason game, which was against the Bucs.

The stories are all coming out now, but why hadn't all this been reported to the league office before this?

ØrangeÇrush
09-15-2007, 04:58 PM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/dr_z/09/13/cheating/index.html?eref=T1


Marinelli was the defensive line coach in Tampa Bay when the Bucs beat the Patriots in the 2000 regular season opener and did a good job controlling New England's offense. After the game the Patriots' offensive coach, Charlie Weis, was overheard congratulating the Bucs' defensive coordinator, Monte Kiffin.

"We knew all your calls, and you still stopped us," Weis said. "I can't believe it."

He couldn't believe it because the Patriots had videotaped all of the defensive signals in their last preseason game, which was against the Bucs.

The stories are all coming out now, but why hadn't all this been reported to the league office before this?


pieces to a puzzle never look like pieces till you put all the information together..

Breck Bronc
09-15-2007, 05:06 PM
Charlie Weis is a disgusting slob. He's also an overrated coach. If Washington can hold on to their 7-3 halftime lead over OSU, Tyrone Willingham looks like a much better option as a head coach than Weis.

Northman
09-15-2007, 05:51 PM
Charlie Weis is a disgusting slob. He's also an overrated coach. If Washington can hold on to their 7-3 halftime lead over OSU, Tyrone Willingham looks like a much better option as a head coach than Weis.


Does Washington play ND at all this year? I would love to see Willingham go into Notre Dame and just steamroll them. Im so tired of all the hoopla surrounding that team and school.

Jens1893
09-15-2007, 05:57 PM
Does Washington play ND at all this year? I would love to see Willingham go into Notre Dame and just steamroll them. Im so tired of all the hoopla surrounding that team and school.

Media may just shut up soon ... they´re currently down 38 at the Big House to 0-2 Michigan. I wonder if Charlie thinks he´s playing for the #1 pick in the draft.

Kid A
09-15-2007, 06:10 PM
They are getting owned by a Michigan defense that was practically non-existent the last couple weeks. This ND team is on its way to a really, really ugly season.

Kaylore
09-15-2007, 07:25 PM
ND is always overrated. I really get sick of seeing other programs that are superior but don't have the recognition they get passed up in the polls by stupid Irish who are routinely disappointing and mediocre. Weis was a product of the media and now he is it's victim. The team was always what it was. The media made them more than they were and now they will rip them apart.

bronco militia
09-19-2007, 12:32 PM
http://blogs.rockymountainnews.com/denver/drew/archives/drew0919.gif

Hercules Rockefeller
09-19-2007, 02:45 PM
At least they won't go to a BCS game they don't deserve only to get the **** kicked out of them by someone that deserves to be there.

TexanBob
09-20-2007, 12:03 PM
So, what Forde is saying is that Notre Dame is stuck with a "White Ty" affair for the next 6 or 7 years. It could be worse. Bob Davie or Gerry Faust could still be their coach.

Raider Bill
09-21-2007, 11:02 AM
I know people love to slam Notre Dame, but the truth is, Willingham left the cupboard bare.


Willingham was fired in November. Scholarship offers are extended as early as September of a kid's junior year. Meaning in Willingham's last class, he was recruiting guys for over a year before he was fired. More commitments came AFTER Willingham left, and Weis had barely gotten his seat warm at ND. That says quite a bit about the supposed "ND leans" that went elsewhere when Willingham was fired.

Weis was hired in December and had exactly two months (signing day is in February) to look at the junk Willingham had extended scholarships to, and try to pick up the pieces. Plain and simple.

He's having a tough year because there are 6-10 starters on both sides of the ball that are freshman and sophomores, and twice as many in key backup roles. There frankly is no senior or junior class -- Carlson is the only semi-decent NFL prospect, and Zbikowski, as much of a fan favorite as he is, is total garbage. Travis Thomas won't see an NFL roster, etc.

Weis has brought in two top 10 recruiting classes (his freshman and sophomore classes now) and has the top class this year. He's put Notre Dame back on the national map in recruiting, gone to two BCS bowls, and is having a bad year this year because of the youth and inexperience on both sides of the ball. You can't make chicken salad out of chicken $hit and that's exactly what Weis has with his junior and senior classes.

College football is all about recruiting, and Willingham didnt do a very good job.

shakenbake
09-21-2007, 11:12 AM
I think it is a little hard to blame it all on willingham. I don't think a single weis recruit has scored a point for ND. Its his 3rd year he should have some guys ready to step up by now. They really really suck.

Raider Bill
09-21-2007, 11:41 AM
He's only had 2 years really, he was involved with a Super Bowl and only had a month before NLOI day that first season.

Because of that, there is no Senior or Junior class.

Weiss has had 3 successive top 10 classes (counting this year's HS seniors), Weiss's guys are either true freshman or Sophmores.

Raider Bill
09-21-2007, 11:45 AM
My main criticism of Weiss is that he could have gotten those guys some more playing time rather than lean on his Sr's so much.

shakenbake
09-21-2007, 01:31 PM
Thats all good raider bill but they haven't score a TD even in garbage time. They have been blown out and when the other teams 3rd string is in they still haven't scored. That would be their sophomores and freshmen against yours and they still can't get it done.

SoCalBronco
09-22-2007, 10:52 PM
http://www.joesportsfan.com/mediaspace/?id=14

Raider Bill
09-23-2007, 12:26 AM
All the ND fans are blaming Willingham for poor recruiting years, but Willingham is off to a great start at Washington this year. I bet we could put together a team from the Mane that could run on ND this year. I am no UM guy, but it wouldn't surprise me to see Hart run for 300 yards against ND this week to break them out of their funk.

Maybe ND and Cleveland are proving that it was not good coachin that made winners out of the Pats, but the extra curricular activities.


Washington opened with 2 creampuffs. Boise St shot their load last year.


Willingham has won 9 games now in the past 3 seasons.

Billy Clyde Puckett
09-24-2007, 09:52 AM
Talk abouut leaving the cupboard bare, Willingham was left less talent than Hawkins. He's a very good coach, but never should have taken the Notre Dame job.

Hey Chuckie - what happened to your promise to the Alumni that you would never lose to Michigan State again. Looks to me like you will never beat them again.

Purdue favored by 23-1/2. Purdue's offense is likely to put 60 on them.