NFL Europe groomed Broncos

[dragondawg]

When the NFL decided to slap the shutters on its European experiment and close down the six-team developmental league earlier this year, it went out with a whimper.

A line or two here, a short mention there. NFL Europe never really found its way to the front burner here or abroad, which was basically the problem for an endeavor some in the league estimate lost $400 million or so since its start in 1991.

Looks like a big number. Yet break that figure down to the 15 years the league played - it did not play in 1993 or 1994 - to the 28 (before 1995), 31 (1996) or 32 teams that bankrolled it each year, and it likely comes down to about $1 million per team per year.

That is a big number in the workaday world, where it's usually a struggle to make ends meet. But for an NFL franchise that has sports drinks delivered on pallets, that was money well spent.

Well spent on live, game-day player development in a league that now has none of that beyond the players who make a 53-man roster.

Just ask the Broncos.

Few, if any, teams in the league used NFL Europe - also called the World League of American Football and NFL Europa during its lifetime - to bolster one position group more than the Broncos did in their offensive line.

This year alone, the Broncos have three starters with NFL Europe experience up front - Ben Hamilton, Matt Lepsis and Erik Pears - with center Greg Eslinger and tackle Cliff Washburn on the practice squad.

"For me, it was awesome," said Lepsis, the Broncos' left tackle. "It's where I started learning to do what I do. A lot of guys go over there and they're mad or they think it's a chance to party. But I looked at it like I was going to go over and try to become a good tackle so I wouldn't come to camp and get cut right away. And it's worked out OK for me."

Lepsis, who was a tight end at the University of Colorado, suffered a torn knee ligament at the Senior Bowl leading to the 1997 draft. He did not play for the Broncos in the 1997 season while he recovered, but the team had moved him to tackle and needed him to play there before he came to camp in 1998.

"So my first work at tackle came in Europe," Lepsis said. "And when I came back, I think I had enough experience where I could at least compete in camp."

Enough to have spent the last eight seasons as a starter.

And he isn't alone.

"My first year (with the Broncos) I didn't get any game experience," Hamilton said. "To play a season over there, playing games, really helped a lot. I was ready to come back and start here. It's been a good thing for a lot of players. It folded because of money reasons, not because it wasn't helping a lot of people."

David Diaz-Infante, who started seven games at guard on a Super Bowl team in 1997, had European experience on his résumé. The Broncos also sent Lennie Friedman to Europe, and he ended up starting 22 games at guard in a two-year span for the Broncos in 2000 and 2001.

"To just let them play, that's the biggest thing," said Broncos offensive coordinator Rick Dennison, who coaches the offensive line. "So much of what we do is about just being on the field, not so much to learn the system, but field awareness and playing. Just understanding how to play."

The Broncos' zone running scheme often requires linemen to make choices on the fly. They see the play develop in front of them and determine which of the oncoming defenders is the "most dangerous" in their area.

It takes time for a lineman to learn to play and think on the move yet not leave gaps for a defensive lineman or linebacker to squeeze through.

"And for me, I didn't dress for any games in my rookie year (2001) - all I did was practice," Hamilton said. "I wasn't out of the game of football, but I wasn't really in it at that point either. I knew they had a lot of success sending linemen over there with Matt and Lennie (Friedman), and competing in a game just helps you, just playing."

Said Dennison: "First, they played, so when they come back, they're more confident in their abilities. Just because the tempo is higher than it is in college, it's just the way it is, even over there. They start to understand what it looks like."

The NFL's eight-man practice squads can help. But those players don't suit up on game day and they also spend much of their week running the opponent's plays as part of the preparation for the other players.

Some say NFL Europe was a minor league. Sure, but it was the only minor league the NFL had.

"It definitely had a big impact on me," Lepsis said. "A big impact."

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/nfl/article/0,2777,DRMN_23918_5691930,00.html

[Odysseus]

In Europe there is only ONE SPORT. Soccer. Anything else is just....not soccer. I have no idea how they pulled off NFLE given the pure lust for soccer.

[chrisp]

In Europe there is only ONE SPORT. Soccer. Anything else is just....not soccer. I have no idea how they pulled off NFLE given the pure lust for soccer.

Its certainly true that 'soccer' as you call it is the #1 sport in europe by a significant margin, but that's true pretty much all over the world - its only North America where that isn't the case (and perhaps India....)

However that doesn't mean we aren't interested in other sports. There is a broad variety of different sports played & watched all over the continent.

Add to that you probably don't realise how much American culture influences european culture: not always for the best, i must confess, but the influence is undeniable. (I'm sure we didn't have 24-hour shopping channels untill you lot thought of them.... )

So it wasn't a crazy idea to try to set up a league here and I for one hope that it isn't the last we've heard of those kind of ideas...

[worm]

Its certainly true that 'soccer' as you call it is the #1 sport in europe by a significant margin, but that's true pretty much all over the world - its only North America where that isn't the case (and perhaps India....)

However that doesn't mean we aren't interested in other sports. There is a broad variety of different sports played & watched all over the continent.

Add to that you probably don't realise how much American culture influences european culture: not always for the best, i must confess, but the influence is undeniable. (I'm sure we didn't have 24-hour shopping channels untill you lot thought of them.... )

So it wasn't a crazy idea to try to set up a league here and I for one hope that it isn't the last we've heard of those kind of ideas...

We gave the world the all you can eat buffet as well as the 64oz Super Big Gulp. Don't any of you Euros forget it!!

[eddie mac]

We gave the world the all you can eat buffet as well as the 64oz Super Big Gulp. Don't any of you Euros forget it!!

As a Nation you certainly have the waistlines to back that stat up.Ha!

[eddie mac]

In Europe there is only ONE SPORT. Soccer. Anything else is just....not soccer. I have no idea how they pulled off NFLE given the pure lust for soccer.

Very true.

IMHO there's no point in having global teams or professional league's until the sport is brought through at grassroots level, i.e schools. That's how the USA is developing it's soccer program. That's the only way american football ever becomes a household sport outside the US.

[Odysseus]

Its certainly true that 'soccer' as you call it is the #1 sport in europe by a significant margin, but that's true pretty much all over the world - its only North America where that isn't the case (and perhaps India....)

However that doesn't mean we aren't interested in other sports. There is a broad variety of different sports played & watched all over the continent.

Add to that you probably don't realise how much American culture influences european culture: not always for the best, i must confess, but the influence is undeniable. (I'm sure we didn't have 24-hour shopping channels untill you lot thought of them.... )

So it wasn't a crazy idea to try to set up a league here and I for one hope that it isn't the last we've heard of those kind of ideas...

You think England cares about NFL? Try turning the channel in any pub on a night when Manchester is playing Liverpool.

I think one day it will change but right now Europe, India, China, and the rest of the world could care less about the NFL. I think it's good and bad. I would have the Broncos to be sold to China in some confused trade agreement. Raiders I could live with or Chiefs but not the Broncos.

[LordHelmchen]

Well, it's certainly a very small sport compared to soccer over here, but that doesn't mean that there isn't a sizeable hardcore fan base..
Btw. there is also another "sport" at the top here in Europe... Formula One.

[Florida_Bronco]

They should just bring it over here and have it be football's version of the minor leagues. It'd be way more profitable and it'd get a large following.

[Odysseus]

Well, it's certainly a very small sport compared to soccer over here, but that doesn't mean that there isn't a sizeable hardcore fan base..
Btw. there is also another "sport" at the top here in Europe... Formula One.

I don't know what size the fan base is but I know finding a place where I could get alcohal and NFL anywhere in Europe has been a serious challenge. I think the problem is I just don't drink enough.

I tend to lump Formula one into Nascar because if I'm not driving it doesn't really matter to me. I love driving a BMW 3 series and hope to get some professional driving school training one day.

[fdf]

You think England cares about NFL? Try turning the channel in any pub on a night when Manchester is playing Liverpool.

I think one day it will change but right now Europe, India, China, and the rest of the world could care less about the NFL. I think it's good and bad. I would have the Broncos to be sold to China in some confused trade agreement. Raiders I could live with or Chiefs but not the Broncos.

LOL. How 'bout the Raiders to Saudi Arabia? Use cocaine? Cut off a nose. Late to camp? A big toe. Your girlfriend or wife acts up, just bury her in the sand up to her neck and throw rocks. It's a Raiders kind of place. The players would get some much-needed discipline and they wouldn't lose concentration 'cause the wife was getting out of line. (Of course, if we start down that road, it probably needs to be said that it's good that Travis Henry isn't a Raider. Eventually, they'd have to cut off his . . .)

I could go with the Colts to Yemen, too. Peyton would look ridiculous in a three foot long beard. I'd enjoy seeing him wrestling with his beard every time he was in another stupid commercial. It would also probably interfere with his game and he'd only put up twenty points a quarter on our D in the second half.

Haven't decided yet where we should sell off the Chiefs. Someplace mean and nasty.

[Odysseus]

LOL. How 'bout the Raiders to Saudi Arabia? Use cocaine? Cut off a nose. Late to camp? A big toe. Your girlfriend or wife acts up, just bury her in the sand up to her neck and throw rocks. It's a Raiders kind of place. The players would get some much-needed discipline and they wouldn't lose concentration 'cause the wife was getting out of line. (Of course, if we start down that road, it probably needs to be said that it's good that Travis Henry isn't a Raider. Eventually, they'd have to cut off his . . .)

I could go with the Colts to Yemen, too. Peyton would look ridiculous in a three foot long beard. I'd enjoy seeing him wrestling with his beard every time he was in another stupid commercial. It would also probably interfere with his game and he'd only put up twenty points a quarter on our D in the second half.

Haven't decided yet where we should sell off the Chiefs. Someplace mean and nasty.

You mean like Alabama? :approve:

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Haven't decided yet where we should sell off the Chiefs. Someplace mean and nasty.

Staying in KC fits that requirement.

[vancejohnson82]

Haven't decided yet where we should sell off the Chiefs. Someplace mean and nasty.


The Lions already play there

[JCMElway]

That's why I think they should start a developmental league for cities in the U.S. I'd go to minor league football games! You could have 8 teams to start out with and put them in cities that don't currently have NFL teams. You could choose from cities like:

San Antonio/Austin
Portland
Oklahoma City
Omaha
San Jose
Boisie
Kansas City
Louisville
Toronto
Mexico City
Las Vegas/Reno
Albuquerque/El Paso

What 8 cities do you think would be best for a developmental league?

[Odysseus]

That's why I think they should start a developmental league for cities in the U.S. I'd go to minor league football games! You could have 8 teams to start out with and put them in cities that don't currently have NFL teams. You could choose from cities like:

San Antonio/Austin
Portland
Oklahoma City
Omaha
San Jose
Boisie
Charlotte
Kansas City
Louisville
Toronto
Mexico City
Las Vegas/Reno
Albuquerque/El Paso

What 8 cities do you think would be best for a developmental league?

You would have to focus to have at least one in New York, California, and Texas just because of the number of people in those states. I think Los Angeles would come up.

What is the goal? Did you want to attract players from overseas to America or to expand the league options for American players? I think having some of the farm teams outside of America was the whole intent behind NFLE. I am not sure what direction the NFL is considering right now.

[Crushaholic]

That's why I think they should start a developmental league for cities in the U.S. I'd go to minor league football games! You could have 8 teams to start out with and put them in cities that don't currently have NFL teams. You could choose from cities like:

San Antonio/Austin
Portland
Oklahoma City
Omaha
San Jose
Boise
Charlotte
Kansas City
Louisville
Toronto
Mexico City
Las Vegas/Reno
Albuquerque/El Paso

What 8 cities do you think would be best for a developmental league?

Nice jab at the Panthers and the Chiefs...ROFL!

[JCMElway]

Nice jab at the Panthers and the Chiefs...ROFL!

LOL, the chiefs one was completely intentional. I honestly forgot that the Panthers were actually IN Charlotte. What does that say?.......

Fixing it now.....

[PRBronco]

That's why I think they should start a developmental league for cities in the U.S. I'd go to minor league football games! You could have 8 teams to start out with and put them in cities that don't currently have NFL teams. You could choose from cities like:

San Antonio/Austin
Portland
Oklahoma City
Omaha
San Jose
Boisie
Charlotte
Kansas City
Louisville
Toronto
Mexico City
Las Vegas/Reno
Albuquerque/El Paso

What 8 cities do you think would be best for a developmental league?

Kudos to you good sir for remembering Canada!

On another note, referring to the OP, don't forget we also groomed Tyson Clabo in the NFLE, he was a starter for the Falcons last year, not sure what his status is this year, dont' follow them much.

[JCMElway]

You would have to focus to have at least one in New York, California, and Texas just because of the number of people in those states. I think Los Angeles would come up.

What is the goal? Did you want to attract players from overseas to America or to expand the league options for American players? I think having some of the farm teams outside of America was the whole intent behind NFLE. I am not sure what direction the NFL is considering right now.

I think the goal is to develop talent for the NFL without breaking the bank by travelling overses. If you put the farm clubs somewhere near the parent clubs that may drum up interest as well. What 8 cities would you put in?

[listopencil]

Check this out. It's a list of AFL and AFL2 teams by city. It includes the number of games played at that location and average attendance:


http://www.arenafan.com/history/?page=arenalist&league=2


I think this is what the NFL needs to focus on and put money into.

[Odysseus]

I think the goal is to develop talent for the NFL without breaking the bank by travelling overses. If you put the farm clubs somewhere near the parent clubs that may drum up interest as well. What 8 cities would you put in?

It depends on what time of year these guys are playing. If these teams are scrimmaging each other somebody would have to pay for transportation. It would have to be in or near existing stadiums that could support it. It would have to be in STRONG NFL cities where fans would come out to see them play. Put one in Denver. Heck this town is NUTS for football.

[Odysseus]

Check this out. It's a list of AFL and AFL2 teams by city. It includes the number of games played at that location and average attendance:


http://www.arenafan.com/history/?page=arenalist&league=2


I think this is what the NFL needs to focus on and put money into.

---If you go by attendance DENVER would definitely get one of these teams. It would have to work around the current AFL schedule so that picking up some of those guys won't be such a hard thing to do. I don't know if this idea is feasible but it is interesting.


---SORT:BY ATTENDANCE:
ThunderDome (Fla. Suncoast Dome) St. Petersburg, FL 43 17335 Tampa Bay Storm
Wachovia Spectrum Philadelphia, PA 4 16209 Philadelphia Soul
Wachovia Center Philadelphia, PA 29 15772 Philadelphia Soul
New Orleans Arena New Orleans, LA 26 15739 New Orleans VooDoo
Pepsi Center Denver, CO 43 15118 Colorado Crush
EnergySolutions Arena Salt Lake City, UT 16 14893 Utah Blaze
Joe Louis Arena Detroit, MI 39 14438 Detroit Drive
Nationwide Arena Columbus, OH 32 14410 Columbus Destroyers
Bradley Center Milwaukee, WI 54 13900 Milwaukee Mustangs
HP Pavillion San Jose, CA 109 13714 San Jose SaberCats
US Airways Center (was AWA) Phoenix, AZ 132 13622 Arizona Rattlers
Amway Arena (Orlando Arena) Orlando, FL 134 13476 Orlando Predators
St. Pete Times Forum (Ice Palace) Tampa, FL 94 13262 Tampa Bay Storm
Kemper Arena Kansas City, MO 18 13029 Kansas City Brigade
Allstate Arena Rosemont, IL 69 12271 Chicago Bruisers Chicago Rush
American Airlines Center Dallas, TX 42 12196 Dallas Desperados
HemisFair Arena San Antonio, TX 5 12015 San Antonio Force
STAPLES Center Los Angeles, CA 65 11701 Los Angeles Avengers
Raleigh Entertainment & Sports Arena Raleigh, NC 21 11528 Carolina Cobras

[listopencil]

Hey, qt. I hope everything is going well for you.

I was thinking the NFL could finance the AFL and that displaced NFLE players would come over. I'd like to see the AFL/AFL2 teams get affiliated with nearby NFL teams. Have some crossover promo (pro days, merchandise, TV ads), play scrimmages in the pre-season against each other, expand the practice squad to include a few AFL players on the NFL rosters. Some fun stuff. Make the AFL a farm system for the NFL.

[Atlas]

In Europe there is only ONE SPORT. Soccer. Anything else is just....not soccer. I have no idea how they pulled off NFLE given the pure lust for soccer.


I didn't watch NFL Europe very much but it was a great idea and the NFL owners are idiots for letting it go. In 16 years they lost a total of $400 million dollars. That comes out to $782,000.00 a year for 32 teams. That is chicken feed!!! Plus the league was getting better as far as not losing as much. They just lost a tremendous fan base and a tremendous training ground for their players. That one game a year they put over their regular season or not won't makeup for what they are losing. This is just a terrible mistake.

[Odysseus]

I didn't watch NFL Europe very much but it was a great idea and the NFL owners are idiots for letting it go. In 16 years they lost a total of $400 million dollars. That comes out to $782,000.00 a year for 32 teams. That is chicken feed!!! Plus the league was getting better as far as not losing as much. They just lost a tremendous fan base and a tremendous training ground for their players. That one game a year they put over their regular season or not won't makeup for what they are losing. This is just a terrible mistake.

I figure the NFL is planning something else. I don't know what that might be. I wonder what caused them to walk away from re-marketing the whole thing one more time?

[Atlas]

I figure the NFL is planning something else. I don't know what that might be. I wonder what caused them to walk away from re-marketing the whole thing one more time?


They already said that they were plannung something in the U.S,, but I'm just thinking why bother? I thought NFL Euorpe was doing a great thing.

How is a minor league system in the U.S. going to grow support overseas?

[Odysseus]

Hey, qt. I hope everything is going well for you.

I was thinking the NFL could finance the AFL and that displaced NFLE players would come over. I'd like to see the AFL/AFL2 teams get affiliated with nearby NFL teams. Have some crossover promo (pro days, merchandise, TV ads), play scrimmages in the pre-season against each other, expand the practice squad to include a few AFL players on the NFL rosters. Some fun stuff. Make the AFL a farm system for the NFL.

I wonder what John Elway is thinking regarding this overlap. I tend to think that as an AFL owner that you would prefer a looser association with the NFL. Some players are just never going to make it in the NFL. They don't have the size or heart for it. I think something that fed both the AFL and the NFL would give them a broader look at players.

[Odysseus]

They already said that they were plannung something in the U.S,, but I'm just thinking why bother? I thought NFL Euorpe was doing a great thing.

How is a minor league system in the U.S. going to grow support overseas?

I think the NFL is going to try to push games overseas as a novelty and see if the other countries are willing to be stakeholders in their own teams under the NFL guidelines. Goodell is so busy saving the world cleaning up the league past, present and future that it's hard to see if this DisneyEuro is worthwhile just yet.

[fdf]

Staying in KC fits that requirement.

Yeah. But I found someplace worse than Oakland for the Raiders. If we work at it, we ought to be able to do the same for the Chiefs.

[fdf]

You mean like Alabama? :approve:

I've never had a problem with the deep south the way others do. My wife has lots of kin in RURAL Mississippi and they are just great folks. And my wife has an, ahem, "tan." Makes no difference to them. They roll out the red carpet every time we drive out to see them.

Of course, they think Alabama is a low-class dump. :)

[Odysseus]

I've never had a problem with the deep south the way others do. My wife has lots of kin in RURAL Mississippi and they are just great folks. And my wife has an, ahem, "tan." Makes no difference to them. They roll out the red carpet every time we drive out to see them.

Of course, they think Alabama is a low-class dump. :)

Alabama has no need of such Yankee nonsense. During real football season that place would be empty of anyone with any sense at all. It would be as empty as a Chiefs practice.

[That One Guy]

I see a few issues with trying to make a minor league NFL. NFL Europe was a good idea but I kinda think that part of it was the fact that they want the rest of the world to actually pick up on the real NFL; any coincidence that they killed NFL Europe the same year they send games overseas?

Now, as for making one of the other leagues a minor league, the closest you can come is Candian football. Arena football is just too different in the rules and the way it's played. Canadian football has generally similar rules, I believe, and has been a hiding grounds for those not quite good enough for the NFL for a few years now. The issue with either of those though is that both leagues have grown their own fanbase and have a bit of legitimacy so to make them the minor leagues would be an insult to them and probably would not be welcomed by the owners. Also, the leagues probably wouldn't like it because it's difficult to have any stars in a minor league program, they'd become a farm team and all stars would be called up to the 'big leagues'. Canada already kinda said they don't want to be second fiddle to the NFL when they made the rule that NFL castoffs under suspension couldn't come play with them.

In my personal opinion, players have 4 years of college to figure out if they're suited to play football in the NFL or not. Folks like Lepsis will be the exception because they change positions or something like that. Eslinger did great in NFLE and came back still nowhere near strong enough to succeed in the NFL... if things still aren't changing for him, how much would repeating the cycle really help? Those who may be on the fringes of succeeding in the NFL can go play arena or Canadian football to refine their game and try out for NFL teams. I just don't think there can be any more leagues, there's already too many for people to track.

[listopencil]

I wonder what John Elway is thinking regarding this overlap. I tend to think that as an AFL owner that you would prefer a looser association with the NFL. Some players are just never going to make it in the NFL. They don't have the size or heart for it. I think something that fed both the AFL and the NFL would give them a broader look at players.

As long as they play at different times of the year one won't take away from the other, and I think an association would benefit the smaller market teams more than a team like the Crush.