Peyton is the best now, maybe ever...

[SoDak Bronco]

Wow, I hate the team, hate the big head, but Peyton is sick. He is too good, it is not fair. I don't see Denver beating this team in the playoffs with the INDY offense running at full strength, it will be just plain tough to do. Anyway, I hate to say it, but unless something changes, INDY is going to be good for another 5-7 years.. Please retire early Peyton.

[bronco militia]

good lord, it's only week one.

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

the sky is falling!

[Los Broncos]

He is the best, don't know about the best ever.

He has that killer instinct and doesn't miss

[SoDak Bronco]

Dude doesn't make mistakes...I'm saying, he's not going to get any worse...Peyton is a freakin touchdown robot.

[enjolras]

They do look incredibly impressive. What's amazing is how Peyton seems to NEVER miss when the defense makes a mistake. He always makes you pay... he's absolutely incredible.

[RhymesayersDU]

L-O-L, Paymeaton!!!!11

His commercials suck too!!!111


/typical OMane dork

[Popps]

I know, he's just dreamy.

[Florida_Bronco]

Wow, I hate the team, hate the big head, but Peyton is sick. He is too good, it is not fair. I don't see Denver beating this team in the playoffs with the INDY offense running at full strength, it will be just plain tough to do. Anyway, I hate to say it, but unless something changes, INDY is going to be good for another 5-7 years.. Please retire early Peyton.

I still don't see what the love affair with this guy is. For all the good things he does, you have to remember that he wasn't really a Superstar until they built that incredible offense. Bottom line is I don't see Peyton as someone who could carry an average team like Elway and others have done. I mean, we've all seen firsthand how he can be shut down just by getting some pressure on him.

[theAPAOps5]

Step away from Payton Mannings penis!

[Orange_Beard]

He has been great for a few years. They have been beaten and will be in the future.
Let's see how that rookie tackle holds up for 16 games, he will face much better competition then tonight.

[footstepsfrom#27]

He also gets sacked once every 30 passes...about the same as Marino (1 in 32). I've seen this guy play entire games and not get touched...not sacked mind you...TOUCHED.

He's good...he'd be less so behind any other O-line in the league. I SO want to see Simeon Rice planting this guy on his ass about 5 times.

[Florida_Bronco]

He also gets sacked once every 30 passes...about the same as Marino (1 in 32). I've seen this guy play entire games and not get touched...not sacked mind you...TOUCHED.

He's good...he'd be less so behind any other O-line in the league. I SO want to see Simeon Rice planting this guy on his ass about 5 times.

Yeah, I'm not so enamored with Peyton himself, but that offense they've built is just awesome. They've got all the pieces working and clicking together.

[SoDak Bronco]

I'm the first Manning hater, Don't get me wrong..he has the flaw of being a choke artist in big games...tough to say that after he won the super bowl, and lead the colts back against the PATS. I honestly don't think he is the best of all time, I would rather have Elway, Montana, but he is making it look easy...

[tsiguy96]

if he keeps this up for a few more years...itll be just sick. hes so good.

[SoDak Bronco]

AHhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...I hope we beat these F*cker$ this season, both in the regular season, and in the playoffs....I don't care how, but lets get it done...

[Florida_Bronco]

I'm the first Manning hater, Don't get me wrong..he has the flaw of being a choke artist in big games...tough to say that after he won the super bowl, and lead the colts back against the PATS. I honestly don't think he is the best of all time, I would rather have Elway, Montana, but he is making it look easy...

Well he really didn't do anything impressive in the Super Bowl, as the only big plays I saw were to a couple wide open receivers that anyone could have thrown to.

That offense is just way strong, and Peyton has alot of weapons at his disposal, but I don't think he's all that special on his own.

[Florida_Bronco]

AHhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...I hope we beat these ****er$ this season, both in the regular season, and in the playoffs....I don't care how, but lets get it done...

You want to know how to do it? Get in there and hit Manning.

When we played them at Indy in 2003, our defense was harassing him all day and he played like crap. Thats the same knock he's always had, if you get after him he falls apart.

[lazarus4444]

The Colts are gooooooood. It should be an interesting year. The Saints were projected by some to be in the super bowl and they just got spanked. Peyton is good but it is a long season, we'll see how it goes.

[SoDak Bronco]

Drew brees looked normal tonight...I was never overally impressed with him when he played for San D-eggo, not a big surprise. He is a good, but not great player...

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Thats the same knock he's always had, if you get after him he falls apart.

That's true of most quarterbacks.

[theAPAOps5]

I will give him this, he is great at getting himself out of harms way either through audibles or his quick release. Rookie QB's who watched tape of him all summer really should have taken a lot away from that.

[theAPAOps5]

That's true of most quarterbacks.

Yeah but normally that is just a figure of speech. In Croyles case that is actually factual.

[SoDak Bronco]

with the colts and Peyton it is all about stability. Peyton hardly gets hit, so he stays healthy, same o-line coach, same o-coordinator, marvin, reggie, saturday, and clark. pretty simple, but this gives these guys a huuuge advantage.

[footstepsfrom#27]

On passing downs I'd put Dumervil in the middle with Moss and rice on the wings. With Bly opposite Champ we have a chance to mount a pass rush now and get some picks.

Pittsburgh swarmed him two years ago in the playoffs and he folded up. We need that kind of pressure.

[SoDak Bronco]

It seems like he sucks worse against 3-4 defenses...Chargers, Steelers, and Pats seem to give him trouble....

[ZONA]

The Saints were a great story last year, but that's just it, it was one year. I really don't think they were a great test for the Colts. The Colts looked good but the Saints looked pretty sad. How much either way? Probably somewhere in the middle.

Don't hand the trohphey over after week 1 for god sake. Still 15 games left for them on a tough schedule and there is always the great equalizer...........INJURIES.

[Dr.5280]

Dump the center. Up the middle. Peyton then has to chose left or right. If the defensive ends can press or contain, his effectiveness drops.

[DarkHorse30]

I can't believe how bad the saints whiffed in the second half.

You're tied at the half on the road v. the SB champs....and you've got the best one-two punch RB duo in the league.....time to run some clock and keep the Colts offense on the sidelines.....right? Oops.

[DukeWoody]

The colts always have and will continue to struggle against physicl 3-4 defensive alignments, especially the better hybrid defensive units that can fluxuate between a 3-4 and a 4-3 base set..With a good 3-4 unit dedicated to produce more confusion and phyical play all around, this finesse offense can be had most times than not..

[Atlas]

Wow, I hate the team, hate the big head, but Peyton is sick. He is too good, it is not fair. I don't see Denver beating this team in the playoffs with the INDY offense running at full strength, it will be just plain tough to do. Anyway, I hate to say it, but unless something changes, INDY is going to be good for another 5-7 years.. Please retire early Peyton.

Peyton is the best QB ever. He is great. He will rewrite every QB record.

I just threw up in my mouth a little.

[bdv]

AHhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...I hope we beat these ****er$ this season, both in the regular season, and in the playoffs....I don't care how, but lets get it done...

In about 2 1/2 weeks Daniel Graham, Stokley and Shanny are going to have a long powwow to figure out how to do just that.

Jim Bates' scheme, properly employed, with the right defensive players, is likely to be how... along with 38 points. :holyguac!

Win or lose, I want them at their best. Our Sept. 30 game should enable us to better measure our team's acumen, and show us what needs work.

We can beat 'em... :kungfu:

[boltaneer]

The Colts looked dominant tonight. But maybe that just goes to show everyone how powerful the AFC is right now.

For those saying that Peyton Manning is playing with the same o-line, remember, Tarik Glenn retired and the Colts had to start a rookie left tackle tonight and he played pretty well. For that offense to not lose a beat was pretty incredible.

Manning makes the defenses pay when they blitz and makes them pay if they only rush four and he has time to go through his reads. The way he makes defenses show what they're doing pre-snap is just brutal. It's almost as if the defense should call an audible when that happens because Peyton is ready to pick you apart right there. It's not the offense that's making him look good, it's the other way around.

[Atlas]

In about 2 1/2 weeks Daniel Graham, Stokley and Shanny are going to have a long powwow to figure out how to do just that.

Jim Bates' scheme, properly employed, with the right defensive players, is likely to be how... along with 38 points. :holyguac!

Win or lose, I want them at their best. Our Sept. 30 game should enable us to better measure our team's acumen, and show us what needs work.

We can beat 'em... :kungfu:


Manning is so dominant that your defense is really inconsequential if you want to beat them you have to outscore them high 20's is a must.

[maher_tyler]

I can't believe how bad the saints whiffed in the second half.

You're tied at the half on the road v. the SB champs....and you've got the best one-two punch RB duo in the league.....time to run some clock and keep the Colts offense on the sidelines.....right? Oops.

i agree..they should have been playing smash mouth football running McAllister up the gut the whole game and kept their offense off the field..i hope we do that when we play them..take control of the clock and wear their D down by running early and often..imo.

[Northman]

He is the best, don't know about the best ever.

He has that killer instinct and doesn't miss

Peyton is good but not even close to best ever.

[Northman]

I still don't see what the love affair with this guy is. For all the good things he does, you have to remember that he wasn't really a Superstar until they built that incredible offense. Bottom line is I don't see Peyton as someone who could carry an average team like Elway and others have done. I mean, we've all seen firsthand how he can be shut down just by getting some pressure on him.


Exactly my point. ^5

[dsmoot]

Manning is so dominant that your defense is really inconsequential if you want to beat them you have to outscore them high 20's is a must.

Last nights performance was similar to the beatings Denver has taken recently from Indy (although last years game was close). The only way you beat Manning is to bring pressure constantly, control the ball/time of possession and get up on them quickly. I know this is an obvious statement but it is the only way teams have beat Indy. They are a dangerous team when they are running well. Adai? looked like he could be coming into his own, he shows good hands catching the ball and is effectively picking up yardage on screens. This is not good news for the rest of the AFC. Their OL was very impressive, did Manning even get touched?

[Hogan11]

Peyton is good but not even close to best ever.

That said, and it may be just me here, but I'm finding it harder and harder to watch him play anymore because the never ending lovefest has reached nauseating levels.

[Simply Red]

Wow, I hate the team, hate the big head, but Peyton is sick. He is too good, it is not fair. I don't see Denver beating this team in the playoffs with the INDY offense running at full strength, it will be just plain tough to do. Anyway, I hate to say it, but unless something changes, INDY is going to be good for another 5-7 years.. Please retire early Peyton.

What makes you think he has a "big head?"

[elsid13]

What makes you think he has a "big head?"

Have you seen his melon???

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Peyton is good but not even close to best ever.He's only 31 and going to break every record so yeah, he's close already. He completely dominates teams.

[12th man]

Manning is NOT the best ever. I'll give Elway that title, and take him over Manning any day of the week.

[Beantown Bronco]

Manning is so dominant that your defense is really inconsequential if you want to beat them you have to outscore them high 20's is a must.

"What is this, arena football?"

-Herm

[Hogan11]

Manning has replaced Farve as the ultimate media darling. He's gonna be shoved down the public's throat sooo often that he's the human equivilent to "This Is Our Country"......meaning it's only the first game/week of the season and already he's been drivin into the ground coverage/adwise.

He's going to oversaturate the public consciousness at some point and they'll turn on him eventually.....some already have.

[HorseHead]

Yes they looked impressive, but a couple of observations:

I know Ugoh(the left tackle) is a rookie, but he looks very beatable. I don't know what kind of rush we can get on them, but before the season is done, their(the Colts) line will be a concearn.

Depth, an injury here and an injury there, and who knows...man the crowd crapped their pants when Adai went down in the first 10 seconds.....

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Manning has replaced Farve as the ultimate media darling. He's gonna be shoved down the public's throat sooo often that he's the human equivilent to "This Is Our Country"......meaning it's only the first game/week of the season and already he's been drivin into the ground coverage/adwise.

He's going to oversaturate the public consciousness at some point and they'll turn on him eventually.....some already have.Actually, he's becoming more liked and gathering more fans, largely from his commercials which most people find humorous and personable.

The football side should be obvious to everyone by now. Already thrown for 278 TDs at age 31, amazing really.

[Hogan11]

Actually, he becoming more liked and gathering more fans, largely from his commercials which most people find humorous and personable.

Oversaturation kills everything....just wait and see.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Oversaturation kills everything....just wait and see.Yeah, most of the time. I don't think people like Tiger have to worry about that though. Manning is getting into his territory now (at least in this country).

[NYBronc]

Second youngest team in the NFL too.

[Dr. Broncenstein]

Umm.... I was looking for a thread where I could slobber on Peyton's jock.

Am I in the right place?

[Garcia Bronco]

Colts> Brushi > Chuck Norris = Hixon

[Garcia Bronco]

Manning is NOT the best ever. I'll give Elway that title, and take him over Manning any day of the week.

And twice on Sunday

[BigBad]

No one in this era can be put up for best ever when they throw to WRs that cant be touched by DB's. Can you imagine the numbers that QB's like Unitas, Ken Anderson, Fouts etc would put up now? They played when DB's could beat up WRs all the way down the field.

[Mediator12]

The "Best" Label is highly subjective and some people dislike the guy just because he is successful and beats DEN regularly. However, Manning runs the most efficient offense in the league. Blessed with talent at the skill positions and a solid OL that is better than they get credit. Just like a lot of the great ones, he has excellent players around him that he makes better and they make him better.

If you judge "Best" by performance, he is going to be a top 3 when he hangs it all up. If you judge by talent, he is not a top 10. Have you seen some of the ducks he throws? The Laser rocket arm is a myth. He just works his ass off to throw on time, at the right spot, and to the right guy. He missed a lot of throws he normally completes last night and still had a great game.

You do not have to like him as a person, but you have to respect him as a player who overmaximizes his God given talent. He is just not a physical wonder, but he is one of the best at getting the most out of what he has.

[TiZZaH]

Bailey/BLY WAAAAAY better than David. They wont get torched by Wayne and Harrison like their ex teammate did last night. If we can get some pressure on Manning our corners will have their way out there. Thats a big IF though...

[Beantown Bronco]

That Marvin Harrison TD catch in the back of the endzone was just sick....he seems to do that at least once a game. Not to take anything away from Manning, but I think it's obvious that every QB in the league would love to have that guy playing for them year in and year out (not to mention having a #2 WR that is better than 90% of the #1 WRs out there).

[Mediator12]

That Marvin Harrison TD catch in the back of the endzone was just sick....he seems to do that at least once a game. Not to take anything away from Manning, but I think it's obvious that every QB in the league would love to have that guy playing for them year in and year out (not to mention having a #2 WR that is better than 90% of the #1 WRs out there).

Marvin Harrison is pretty uncoverable unless you Jam him and he is so explosive off the LOS that if you miss, he is gone. Teams that have success, press cover the Colts WR's. DEN actually has a good Scheme to run versus INDY, if they can stop the run from averaging 6 yards per play. Otherwise, it's pick your poison.

[Garcia Bronco]

No one in this era can be put up for best ever when they throw to WRs that cant be touched by DB's. Can you imagine the numbers that QB's like Unitas, Ken Anderson, Fouts etc would put up now? They played when DB's could beat up WRs all the way down the field.

No doubt.

[maher_tyler]

Has the Saints D ever been that good in the last few years to begin with?? I think ours is quite a bit better than theirs is and hopefully our O decides to come to the game as well..also unlike theirs.

[Rugby7]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Florida_Bronco
Thats the same knock he's always had, if you get after him he falls apart and starts eating a bunch of twinkies.


That's also true about most chiefy fans.


I agree.

[dbfan4life]

It's not like the Saints have an all-pro secondary. Their seconday was actually considered a laibility coming into the season - it doesn't surprise me the Colts looked as good as they did last night. Not taking anything away from Peyton, just want to keep things in perspective.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

It's not like the Saints have an all-pro secondary. Their seconday was actually considered a laibility coming into the season - it doesn't surprise me the Colts looked as good as they did last night. Not taking anything away from Peyton, just want to keep things in perspective.The Saints were ranked 11th in total defense last year and first in offense. The Colts destroyed them on both sides of the ball.

[TailgateNut]

Please allow me to BARF on this thread!

[SouthStndJunkie]

I hate to admit it, but when it is all said and done, Manning will probably go down as the best QB of all-time....he will be in the discussion at the very least.

He is going to absolutely smash all the records. You know the guy wants to own them all.

He will hit the 40,000 career yards mark and 300 TDs mark this year.

He could hit 70,000 career yards and 500 TDs by the end of his career.

He has never missed a game.

[B-Love]

[QUOTE=BigBad;1702728]No one in this era can be put up for best ever when they throw to WRs that cant be touched by DB's. Can you imagine the numbers that QB's like Unitas, Ken Anderson, Fouts etc would put up now? They played when DB's could beat up WRs all the way down the field.[/

Um, no they didn't. Not Fouts and Anderson at least.

The rules for Pass Coverage changed in 1978, right when Fouts started to light it up. Dan Fouts is a Hall of Famer because he was great and because of the rule change. Don Coryell smartly took advantage of the rule changes of '78; that's why Fouts put up the numbers he did.

Ken Anderson had some terrific years with Bill Walsh pre '78, but had his best years after the rule changes of '78 too. He played 7 years (78-84) as the starter with todays rules as well.

You're right on Johnny U though.

[Garcia Bronco]

Please allow me to BARF on this thread!

Ohhh...how would that make this thread any different from the other ones you "post" in. :)

[TailgateNut]

Ohhh...how would that make this thread any different from the other ones you "post" in. :)

Get a life!
I attempted to express my "love" for Peyton in a humorous manner and you (Mr. Perfect world) come in to rain on my "parade".

[B-Love]

Peyton is great; and I hope the board doesn't turn into that nonsense it did last year.

A bunch of people trying to convince the masses that they see things in Manning's game, that the masses don't. People who tried to lessen every accomplishment of his, while exaggerating every downfall. Just dumb, the guy is unreal.

The guy will re-write every record, and whether you are burned out by his appearances on TV, etc., or not, I'd rather have a constant face full of him, then these prima donnas that rule todays' athletic landscape.

When I'm old, Peyton Manning will be near the top of any All Time list, and deservedly so. He is truly great.

[BigBad]

Um, no they didn't. Not Fouts and Anderson at least.

The rules for Pass Coverage changed in 1978, right when Fouts started to light it up. Dan Fouts is a Hall of Famer because he was great and because of the rule change. Don Coryell smartly took advantage of the rule changes of '78; that's why Fouts put up the numbers he did.

Ken Anderson had some terrific years with Bill Walsh pre '78, but had his best years after the rule changes of '78 too. He played 7 years (78-84) as the starter with todays rules as well.

You're right on Johnny U though.

I am not just talking about the "Mel Blount rule." There was not an illegal contact rule untill a few years ago. Which happended after Manning and his Colts CRIED about how New England roughed them up. In the 80's they didnt throw a flag any time a CB touched a WR down the field.

[TailgateNut]

Peyton is great; and I hope the board doesn't turn into that nonsense it did last year.

A bunch of people trying to convince the masses that they see things in Manning's game, that the masses don't. People who tried to lessen every accomplishment of his, while exaggerating every downfall. Just dumb, the guy is unreal.

The guy will re-write every record, and whether you are burned out by his appearances on TV, etc., or not, I'd rather have a constant face full of him, then these prima donnas that rule todays' athletic landscape.

When I'm old, Peyton Manning will be near the top of any All Time list, and deservedly so. He is truly great.

Well, I guess I should apologize for not showing him the "love" he deserves.

"NOT"

I can't stand the arrogant ****. Although he is an awesome QB, he showed as much class three years ago after our game as Rivers when he was at "Mile High". I recall a conversation with Coach Coyer two years ago about ****heads behavior after the previous years' encounter, and that when he lost my respect!

He will never live up to the all time greats who went on to the field of battle, did their job, went to the locker room, and then gave props to the loosers!

Don't fall off the high horse!

[Smiling Assassin27]

Wow, I hate the team, hate the big head, but Peyton is sick. He is too good, it is not fair. I don't see Denver beating this team in the playoffs with the INDY offense running at full strength, it will be just plain tough to do. Anyway, I hate to say it, but unless something changes, INDY is going to be good for another 5-7 years.. Please retire early Peyton.

Everyone has already written off the Colts (all the talking heads, i mean). Manning is going to be in the conversation of best ever before he's all done. The key to beating Peyton is getting in his face quickly. If our CB's can hang with Wayne and Harrison for 4 seconds, that LT spot is the chink. Bring guys from Manning's left and pray the CB's can minimize any damage with solid tackles.

[boltaneer]

Yes they looked impressive, but a couple of observations:

I know Ugoh(the left tackle) is a rookie, but he looks very beatable. I don't know what kind of rush we can get on them, but before the season is done, their(the Colts) line will be a concearn.

Of course, Ugoh is beatable. Manning gets the ball out so fast, he made Ugoh look great last night.

I don't think Manning even got touched last night. One thing I noticed is that the gameplan for the Saints was to not bring a lot of blitzes. There was a stretch of games in 2004 when Manning broke the TD record where teams stopped blitzing him because they just got torched every time they did. And it didn't matter because Manning just slowly picked them apart. It was choose your own poison by defensive coordinators. Did you want to give up the quick score or make him work for it? And he's only gotten better at being able to decipher where teams are bringing the blitz pre-snap. But you have to give credit to both Manning and his receivers for their adjustments and hot routes when Manning barks out what's going on before the snap.

Peyton's kryptonite seems to be the 3-4 defense. When Baltimore and Pittsburgh played a 3-4 against Indy, they used a lot of movement, from their LBs and safeties pre-snap to confuse Manning. When San Diego and New England played Indy, I didn't notice as much of that . I think it was more because of the discipline the LBs had in not showing their hand pre-snap.

Jacksonville is the only 4-3 team that seems to be able to consistently give Manning problems but that's because of how good their front four has been, particularly their interior linemen. Denver's DTs have not been impressive to me at all. Sam Adams in particular can't give the push that a Henderson or Stroud can in Jacksonville. Jacksonville's DEs play against the run pretty well. Rice's big liability is playing against the run so he's going to have to slow down his rush and the LBs are going to have to step it up if he doesn't want to get gashed but that's never been his style. On paper, I don't think the Broncos have upgraded their d-line enough to have what it takes to stop Indy's offense but we'll see what Bates comes up with when they meet.

[Garcia Bronco]

Get a life!
I attempted to express my "love" for Peyton in a humorous manner and you (Mr. Perfect world) come in to rain on my "parade".

Haha...I hear you like the "parades" :)

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I am not just talking about the "Mel Blount rule." There was not an illegal contact rule untill a few years ago. Which happended after Manning and his Colts CRIED about how New England roughed them up. In the 80's they didnt throw a flag any time a CB touched a WR down the field.What?

In 1977 the rules were changed where defenders could only contact the WRs once.

And in 1978 the rules were changed again to allow defenders to contact them more than once but only inside of the first 5 yards of scrimmage.

[B-Love]

Well, I guess I should apologize for not showing him the "love" he deserves.

"NOT"

I can't stand the arrogant ****. Although he is an awesome QB, he showed as much class three years ago after our game as Rivers when he was at "Mile High". I recall a conversation with Coach Coyer two years ago about ****heads behavior after the previous years' encounter, and that when he lost my respect!

He will never live up to the all time greats who went on to the field of battle, did their job, went to the locker room, and then gave props to the loosers!

Don't fall off the high horse!

So ridiculously overstated and exaggerated; what you Peyton haters always do.

[BigBad]

ENFORCING the illegal contact rule. It was emphazized in 1994 and since 2004. Look at the spikes in production by QB's.

http://www.kffl.com/article.php/15496/297

[TailgateNut]

So ridiculously overstated and exaggerated; what you Peyton haters always do.

Which part is "overstated", and which part is "exaggerated"?

[Bronco_Beerslug]

ENFORCING the illegal contact rule. It was emphazized in 1994 and since 2004. Look at the spikes in production by QB's.
http://www.kffl.com/article.php/15496/297It's always been enforced. Every now and then it has to be reemphasized as certain teams start mauling receivers to try and stop them (see NE).

At least you now know the rule has been around for 30 years and not just created.

[Bladerunner]

I get a kick out of all these ostriches that think that Peyton isn't that good, or at least hate him so bad that they pretend to think that. Remember folks, fear leads to anger and anger leads to hate...and hate leads to ....ssssuuuuffferrring.

Manning makes me want to throw up, but I'm not so blinded by hate to actually convince myself that he sucks or will piss people off with his commercials, or that he is an arrogant ass or any other gems of denial I've heard here.

Besides, the Colts can be beat...it happens 2-4 times per year...

[rbackfactory80]

Didn't Taco start this thread last year.

[BMF Bronco]

Oh for ****s' sake, on the three bombs he had the db dropped his jockstrap trying to figure out where his own balls were! Griese could have made those throws!

However, I still hate peyaton.

[ozomulsion]

Well he really didn't do anything impressive in the Super Bowl, as the only big plays I saw were to a couple wide open receivers that anyone could have thrown to.

That offense is just way strong, and Peyton has alot of weapons at his disposal, but I don't think he's all that special on his own.

Sure, let's focus on one game where he only threw for 244 yards in the rain. Excellent argument as to why he's not special on his own. Color me not sold on that one.

Peyton is good but not even close to best ever.

Pure gold Anubis. Hilarious!

[Popps]

Didn't Taco start this thread last year.

**** rolls downhill.


http://www.worldchamprec.com/awesome.jpg

[BMF Bronco]

**** rolls downhill.


http://www.worldchamprec.com/awesome.jpg

And the battle begins once again!!!

[B-Love]

I get a kick out of all these ostriches that think that Peyton isn't that good, or at least hate him so bad that they pretend to think that. Remember folks, fear leads to anger and anger leads to hate...and hate leads to ....ssssuuuuffferrring.

Manning makes me want to throw up, but I'm not so blinded by hate to actually convince myself that he sucks or will piss people off with his commercials, or that he is an arrogant ass or any other gems of denial I've heard here.

Besides, the Colts can be beat...it happens 2-4 times per year...

Put perfectly. To watch some posters here try to convinve themselves and the masses at the same time, that he is a fraction of what he actually is, is comical.

The guy is off the charts and efforts to minimize him read embarrassingly silly.

And to call the guy arrogant is ridiculous. He is one of the true gentlemen in the games history. Because he is so forced down on our throats, and we live in the age we do, we see him 20 times more on TV than we did Roger Staubach 30 years ago. And in one out of every 200 TV pieces, he might show a human side, and a slight tinge of arrogance or anger.

And guys like Tailgate Nut run with it and try to manifest it as his overall personality. Just ridiculous.

I'll trust every GM and Coach who raves over the guys skills, coach-ability, likeable nature and leadership skills, more than some jealous Broncos fans on a team board.

[NaptownChief]

I still don't see what the love affair with this guy is. For all the good things he does, you have to remember that he wasn't really a Superstar until they built that incredible offense. Bottom line is I don't see Peyton as someone who could carry an average team like Elway and others have done. I mean, we've all seen firsthand how he can be shut down just by getting some pressure on him.


Dude you are punch drunk and grossly biased.....He is the one that created "that incredible offense"....He took over a 3-13 franchise that was the worst in the NFL. The were a terrible offense and a terrible defense. By his second year he had them the 3rd best offense in the league and throwing for 4,000 every year.

And you are right that Peyton hasn't carried an average team like Elway.....he completely carried a horrible team.

And yeah, that pressure has really shut him down. 4,000 yard season after 4,000 yard season. His numbers when he is "shut down" are as good are better than Elways when he was at his best.

[TailgateNut]

Hail Peyton!

I feel much better now!:spit:

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Put perfectly. To watch some posters here try to convinve themselves and the masses at the same time, that he is a fraction of what he actually is, is comical.

The guy is off the charts and efforts to minimize him read embarrassingly silly.

And to call the guy arrogant is ridiculous. He is one of the true gentlemen in the games history. Because he is so forced down on our throats, and we live in the age we do, we see him 20 times more on TV than we did Roger Staubach 30 years ago. And in one out of every 200 TV pieces, he might show a human side, and a slight tinge of arrogance or anger.

And guys like Tailgate Nut run with it and try to manifest it as his overall personality. Just ridiculous.

I'll trust every GM and Coach who raves over the guys skills, coach-ability, likeable nature and leadership skills, more than some jealous Broncos fans on a team board.Well, like I said, he's going to break all the records barring injury. I personally don't care for him after he tried to run up the score on Houston a couple years back (throwing bombs) when they were leading by 30 points with 2 minutes left in the game.

[BMF Bronco]

I personally don't care for him after he tried to run up the score on Houston a couple years back (throwing bombs) when they were leading by 30 points with 2 minutes left in the game.

between him and Dunghole, it's going to happen everytime they get the chance.

[NaptownChief]

Well, like I said, he's going to break all the records barring injury. I personally don't care for him after he tried to run up the score on Houston a couple years back (throwing bombs) when they were leading by 30 points with 2 minutes left in the game.



But you liked him prior to that? ;D

[Bronco_Beerslug]

But you liked him prior to that? ;DWell.....................................no. Ha!

[Beantown Bronco]

IMO - the SNL skit he did with the kids (playing football, teaching them how to steal a car, and trying to pick up the chick in the playground) is an instant classic and makes me laugh every time.

[NaptownChief]

Well.....................................no. Ha!




;D



That comment kinda reminded me of the Bonds and steroids issue....Everyone hated him before the issue but the issue gave many people something of substance to feel justified in their hate from that point.

[NaptownChief]

IMO - the SNL skit he did with the kids (playing football, teaching them how to steal a car, and trying to pick up the chick in the playground) is an instant classic and makes me laugh every time.



"I'm not saying I would kill a snitch but I'm not saying I wouldn't..."

[TheReverend]

Well, like I said, he's going to break all the records barring injury. I personally don't care for him after he tried to run up the score on Houston a couple years back (throwing bombs) when they were leading by 30 points with 2 minutes left in the game.

Division match up.

Honestly don't you want to see Cutler going down the field when Denver is leading 30-0 against the Chiefs?

[Houshyamama]

Yeah, most of the time. I don't think people like Tiger have to worry about that though. Manning is getting into his territory now (at least in this country).

That is a bit much. Without Tiger, the PGA would fade dramatically from public view. Without Manning, the NFL would be just fine. I doubt there would even be much of a hiccup outside Indy.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Division match up.

Honestly don't you want to see Cutler going down the field when Denver is leading 30-0 against the Chiefs?Uh, no, I don't want to see him in the game with two minutes left against anyone if we are up by 30 points (except to hand off or kneel down).

[Bronco_Beerslug]

And you are right that Peyton hasn't carried an average team like Elway.....he completely carried a horrible team.

Manning would be a crippled up ex NFL QB if he played on some of the teams Elway did considering how mobile and coordinated (lower body) he is.

[NaptownChief]

Manning would be a crippled up ex NFL QB if he played on some of the teams Elway did considering how mobile and coordinated (lower body) he is.




Just the opposite....He would use his head to read the opponents defense, know his own offense inside and out and get rid of the ball very quickly....as opposed to dancing around and hanging onto it forever like the less mentally equipt QB's have to do. Thankfully for Elway he did have the feet to help offset some of his shortcomings in that area.

The Colts team he took over led the league in sacks allowed the year prior when Harbaugh was under center.....Speaking of which Harbaugh's style was Elway-esq without any of the physical talent.

[theAPAOps5]

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I love that sketch.

[BMF Bronco]

So you're saying Manning is the second coming???

[NaptownChief]

So you're saying Manning is the second coming???



Nope...he is the first coming...nobody before him has ever been as good.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Just the opposite....He would use his head to read the opponents defense, know his own offense inside and out and get rid of the ball very quickly....as opposed to dancing around and hanging onto it forever like the less mentally equipt QB's have to do. Thankfully for Elway he did have the feet to help offset some of his shortcomings in that area.
It's obvious you didn't watch many of the early Elway team years. Manning would've been hamburger.

[BMF Bronco]

Nope...he is the first coming...nobody before him has ever been as good.

You're ****ing kidding me right?!

[theAPAOps5]

I really wish Doc Brown would get that real version of the Flux Capacitor ready so we could test our theories. Until then its impossible to determine. Montanna was the greatest of his era, Elways his, and now Peyton is the best of his generation. Who's next? I sure as hell hope its one Jay Cutler.

[BigBad]

Montanna was the greatest of his era, Elways his, and now Peyton is the best of his generation. Who's next? I sure as hell hope its one Jay Cutler.

Wasn't Elway's and Montana's era one in the same?

[NaptownChief]

It's obvious you didn't watch many of the early Elway team years. Manning would've been hamburger.



It is obvious you don't remember how horrible the Colts were when he got there....

[theAPAOps5]

Wasn't Elway's and Montana's era one in the same?

Yeah I debated that when I wrote that. But Montana's "era" was well before Elways "era" does that make sense? Elway was still a young buck when Montana and company abused Denver. So when Elway was in his prime Montana was on the decline.

I guess to expound on that further I would say era's last from about 4-5 years in the NFL. Elways was around 1994-1998 when he retired. Montana's was from 1985-1989 when he went to 3 SB's.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

It is obvious you don't remember how horrible the Colts were when he got there....Yeah, I remember pretty well......that Elway never had a Marvin Harrison or Marshall Faulk on his early "****ty" teams.

[BMF Bronco]

Yeah, I remember pretty well......that Elway never had a Marvin Harrison or Marshall Faulk on his early "****ty" teams.

Come on now, you're telling me the "3 amigos" weren't up to Harrison's or wayne's calibre?! >sarcasm off<

[labronx]

Hgh

[Florida_Bronco]

Dude you are punch drunk and grossly biased.....He is the one that created "that incredible offense"....He took over a 3-13 franchise that was the worst in the NFL. The were a terrible offense and a terrible defense. By his second year he had them the 3rd best offense in the league and throwing for 4,000 every year.

And you are right that Peyton hasn't carried an average team like Elway.....he completely carried a horrible team.

And yeah, that pressure has really shut him down. 4,000 yard season after 4,000 yard season. His numbers when he is "shut down" are as good are better than Elways when he was at his best.

I don't really think I'm biased against Peyton. I've never held any personal ill will towards him despite the times he torched Denver in the playoffs. Unlike alot of people, I don't dislike the other team for beating my team. I just see Manning for what he is...a very good QB who has such a high power offense built around him they can destroy defenses. It's almost the opposite of Dan Marino's situation, where they got a great QB but never built an offense to match his talent level. Remember that Manning was the start of their offensive building though, as they already had Harrison and drafted Edgerrin James the next year. Also lets not forget the weak division they play in, in which they routinely obliterate the other teams in the division.

I just can't see myself getting all happy in the pants over a QB who constantly folds in the playoffs and when pressured. Truely great QBs don't do that. I'm not at all saying Manning sucks, I just think people get a little too enarmored with the glitzy stats he puts up.

[NaptownChief]

I just can't see myself getting all happy in the pants over a QB who constantly folds in the playoffs and when pressured. .


I normally respect your thought and opinions a bunch but do you realize how stupid this comment looks considering they just dropped the 2006 Super Bowl Champion banner last night in the RCA Dome?

[ozomulsion]

Come on now, you're telling me the "3 amigos" weren't up to Harrison's or wayne's calibre?! >sarcasm off<

Wayne didn't join the Colts until three years after Manning began his career and didn't have his first one thousand yard season until his fourth year in the league. It's not like he came out of college and lit the NFL on fire. Harrison didn't start his string of one thousand yard seasons until Manning got there. Stokley had a career high of 357 yards before he joined the colts. Seems to be a pattern here.

[Florida_Bronco]

I normally respect your thought and opinions a bunch but do you realize how stupid this comment looks considering they just dropped the 2006 Super Bowl Champion banner last night in the RCA Dome?

And Peyton didn't do so hot in the playoffs IIRC. And like I already mentioned, the only big plays they made in the Super Bowl were passes to wide open receivers. Regardless, it doesn't take away what...5 years of choking in the playoffs?

[NaptownChief]

Wayne didn't join the Colts until three years after Manning began his career and didn't have his first one thousand yard season until his fourth year in the league. It's not like he came out of college and lit the NFL on fire. Harrison didn't start his string of one thousand yard seasons until Manning got there. Stokley had a career high of 357 yards before he joined the colts. Seems to be a pattern here.




Yeah people forget that Manning started out throwing to legends like Torance Small, EG Green and Jerome Pathon as his #2 and #3 options in the begining and still posted big numbers.

[Beantown Bronco]

And Peyton didn't do so hot in the playoffs IIRC. And like I already mentioned, the only big plays they made in the Super Bowl were passes to wide open receivers. Regardless, it doesn't take away what...5 years of choking in the playoffs?

I'll tell you right now, if the Broncos win the SB this year, it will erase all the prior years of choking against the Colts (and Pitt), for me at least....

[NaptownChief]

And Peyton didn't do so hot in the playoffs IIRC. And like I already mentioned, the only big plays they made in the Super Bowl were passes to wide open receivers. Regardless, it doesn't take away what...5 years of choking in the playoffs?



Well maybe you can write him a note about how bad he sucked in the playoffs last year and he can hang it on his Super Bowl MVP trophy.


As for the buckling under pressure/choking....You do realize that the only team to make him look bad is the Patriots don't you? The best team in the NFL the last decade and one of the better teams of all time. So he stumbles against them while throttling everyone else and that some how constitutes constantly choking when pressured?

If you used the same measuring stick you reserve for Manning on Elway he wouldn't be worth a damn.

[BMF Bronco]

Wayne didn't join the Colts until three years after Manning began his career and didn't have his first one thousand yard season until his fourth year in the league. It's not like he came out of college and lit the NFL on fire. Harrison didn't start his string of one thousand yard seasons until Manning got there. Stokley had a career high of 357 yards before he joined the colts. Seems to be a pattern here.

Yeah, it's called a well oiled system.

[ozomulsion]

Yeah, it's called a well oiled system.

Exactly. Manning turned the worst team in the NFL into a well oiled system by his second season. Am I mistaken or are you giving that credit to Jim Mora?

[NaptownChief]

Exactly. Manning turned the worst team in the NFL into a well oiled system by his second season. Am I mistaken or are you giving that credit to Jim Mora?



Probably Torrance Small....He was great you know.

[Jason in LA]

Manning is the best in the game today. I've thought that for years. I've always thought that he was a lot better than Brady. It's not even close. But best ever? Nope. I don't think they'll win the Super Bowl this year.

It's funny that a guy can go from not being able to win when it counts to a guy who is going to be winning them for years to come. He might not make it back for the rest of his career. Only time will tell.

[NYBronc]

Yeah I debated that when I wrote that. But Montana's "era" was well before Elways "era" does that make sense? Elway was still a young buck when Montana and company abused Denver. So when Elway was in his prime Montana was on the decline.

I guess to expound on that further I would say era's last from about 4-5 years in the NFL. Elways was around 1994-1998 when he retired. Montana's was from 1985-1989 when he went to 3 SB's.


That's a tough argument since Elway won MVP in '87 and Montana won in '89 and '90. FWIW I think Elway is the GOAT though.

[BMF Bronco]

That's a tough argument since Elway won MVP in '87 and Montana won in '89 and '90. FWIW I think Elway is the GOAT though.

Bro, Elway also won the SB MVP in 98

[TailgateNut]

Bro, Elway also won the SB MVP in 98



TD won it in 98
Elway in 99

[BMF Bronco]

meant season

[TailgateNut]

meant season

What's with NYBronc '87 season???

[Northman]

He's only 31 and going to break every record so yeah, he's close already. He completely dominates teams.

oh really? So just having a good Oline makes you a fantastic Qb? So when Favre breaks Johns record this year does that mean he is better than John? Being a great Qb is more than stats man. And Elway proved that on more than 1 occasion he could take a team on his back and win a game without surrounding talent something Manning HAS NOT done.

[NYBronc]

No doubt, but League MVP for the entire year is what I'm talking about. Elway carried three teams to the superbowl during roughly the same period Montana won his MVPs. My point is, their "eras" basically coincide.

With that said, Elway is the greatest, IMO because A. he carried the Broncos on his back all those years, and B. he went out on f'n top.

[NYBronc]

What's with NYBronc '87 season???

Yeah, my bad. I meant AP Writers 1987 MVP

[BMF Bronco]

What's with NYBronc '87 season???

HUH????????

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Yeah people forget that Manning started out throwing to legends like Torance Small, EG Green and Jerome Pathon as his #2 and #3 options in the begining and still posted big numbers.I notice you conveniently forgot to include some other of his first year receivers...

Marvin Harrison
Ken Dilger
Marcus Pollard

No matter how you try and diminish that team you can't. Any team with Marshall Faulk and Marvin Harrison on it has the nuts and bolts to be very good. And I guarantee you Elway wouldn't have choked away 5 years of playoffs with Edgerin James, Reggie Wayne, Marvin Harrison and that offensive line.

[Northman]

Wayne didn't join the Colts until three years after Manning began his career and didn't have his first one thousand yard season until his fourth year in the league. It's not like he came out of college and lit the NFL on fire. Harrison didn't start his string of one thousand yard seasons until Manning got there. Stokley had a career high of 357 yards before he joined the colts. Seems to be a pattern here.


How many rushing yards does Peyton have? How many times did he have to avoid a sack because of a crappy line and make a play on his own? Did you even ever see John play early in his career or just jump on the bandwagon in 97? Do you realize how stupid you sound?

[Northman]

Any team with Marshall Faulk and Marvin Harrison on it has the nuts and bolts to be very good. And I guarantee you Elway wouldn't have choked away 5 years of playoffs with Edgerin James, Reggie Wayne, Marvin Harrison and that offensive line.

Surely you jest? Dont you know? Those guys are scrubs and wouldnt be starters on other NFL teams. Manning makes them the stars they are. Get with the program man. Hilarious!

[NaptownChief]

I notice you conveniently forgot to include some other of his first year receivers...

Marvin Harrison
Ken Dilger
Marcus Pollard

No matter how you try and diminish that team you can't. Any team with Marshall Faulk and Marvin Harrison on it has the nuts and bolts to be very good. And I guarantee you Elway wouldn't have choked away 5 years of playoffs with Edgerin James, Reggie Wayne, Marvin Harrison and that offensive line.


Did you confuse Harrison as being his #2 OR #3 WR?


Elway choked away three Super Bowls before winning it. We can play this biased "I guarantee you" game all we want. I guarantee you Manning wouldn't lose three straight Super Bowls either. How's that...

You Denver folks need to get over yourselves. Elway was a great QB. Everyone knows that however you need to live with the fact that he wasn't the first great QB nor will he be the last great QB like you folks would prefer. You guys go to ridiculous levels to try and make all other great QB's(Montana,Favre, Manning etc) look bad in efforts of protecting your precious Elway's legacy. In the process that only thing you accomplish is making yourselves look silly.

[NaptownChief]

How many rushing yards does Peyton have? How many times did he have to avoid a sack because of a crappy line and make a play on his own? Did you even ever see John play early in his career or just jump on the bandwagon in 97? Do you realize how stupid you sound?


He is smart enough to know that running the ball is the RB's job....His job is to stay healthy and play QB because his team is much better when he does than having to trot in a backup. He doesn't run to avoid sacks because he knows he can throw the ball much faster than he can run with it.

If Elway had Manning's brains and spent his nights prepping instead of chasing tail around Denver he might have been able to find a good place to throw the ball quickly rather than limping around with it.

[SoDak Bronco]

What the hell did I start with this thread. My apologies.please move on from the big head talk.

[Northman]

Did you confuse Harrison as being his #2 OR #3 WR?


Elway choked away three Super Bowls before winning it. We can play this biased "I guarantee you" game all we want. I guarantee you Manning wouldn't lose three straight Super Bowls either. How's that...

You Denver folks need to get over yourselves. Elway was a great QB. Everyone knows that however you need to live with the fact that he wasn't the first great QB nor will he be the last great QB like you folks would prefer. You guys go to ridiculous levels to try and make all other great QB's(Montana,Favre, Manning etc) look bad in efforts of protecting your precious Elway's legacy. In the process that only thing you accomplish is making yourselves look silly.


I think your confusing the issue Nappy. No one has said that Peyton isnt great. But he is not a better Qb than Elway no matter how many stats he blows out of the water. I know you like to bring up the early SB losses but keep in mind that Manning didnt even reach his first SB until his 9th season. Elway had already been to 3 despite the losses and his surrounding talent wasnt even on par with what Manning has had.

[Northman]

He is smart enough to know that running the ball is the RB's job....His job is to stay healthy and play QB because his team is much better when he does than having to trot in a backup. He doesn't run to avoid sacks because he knows he can throw the ball much faster than he can run with it.

If Elway had Manning's brains and spent his nights prepping instead of chasing tail around Denver he might have been able to find a good place to throw the ball quickly rather than limping around with it.


Quick, change your name to football wimp. That was weak even by your standards. Ha!

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Did you confuse Harrison as being his #2 OR #3 WR? Uh huh, there actually was some other receivers on that team besides those two, I thought so.

Elway choked away three Super Bowls before winning it. We can play this biased "I guarantee you" game all we want. I guarantee you Manning wouldn't lose three straight Super Bowls either. How's that... What a caterwauling do you keep here. You should be women and yet your beards forbid me to interpret that you are so.
Leave thy vain bibble-babble you whoreson cullionly barbermonger.

You Denver folks need to get over yourselves. Elway was a great QB. Everyone knows that however you need to live with the fact that he wasn't the first great QB nor will he be the last great QB like you folks would prefer. You guys go to ridiculous levels to try and make all other great QB's(Montana,Favre, Manning etc) look bad in efforts of protecting your precious Elway's legacy. In the process that only thing you accomplish is making yourselves look silly.You Manning nutsackers are far worse! Ha!

[TailgateNut]

HUH????????

I was referring to NYbroncs comment. Must have hit the wrong quote button!

[TailgateNut]

You Manning nutsackers are far worse! Ha!


QFT!

[NaptownChief]

Elway had already been to 3 despite the losses and his surrounding talent wasnt even on par with what Manning has had.



Elway never had to try and win with rotten defenses often either and when he did he failed.....Do you realize Elway didn't have a single winning season when the Broncos defense didn't rank in the top 15 in the NFL?

Try posting winning seasons while having your defense in the bottom half of the NFL like Manning has multiple times.

There are two sides to the ball boys and the talent on both sides greatly plays a big factor in helping a QB win games. I realize we don't want to talk about that here because it doesn't tell the biased story you guys want to sing but it doesn't make it any less true.

[Northman]

Elway never had to try and win with rotten defenses often either and when he did he failed.....Do you realize Elway didn't have a single winning season when the Broncos defense didn't rank in the top 15 in the NFL?

Try posting winning seasons while having your defense in the bottom half of the NFL like Manning has multiple times.




1984 13-3 Defensive rank 27th
1986 11-5 Defensive rank 21st


ROFL!

[ozomulsion]

How many rushing yards does Peyton have? How many times did he have to avoid a sack because of a crappy line and make a play on his own? Did you even ever see John play early in his career or just jump on the bandwagon in 97? Do you realize how stupid you sound?

Where the hell are coming from with that $hit? I never said a thing to diminish what Elway has done. I believe Elway was the better QB for the record. I never said anything about him in this thread until this post.

This thread isn't about Elway. Maybe you can't wrap your head around the fact a Bronco fan can have an unbiased opinion about Manning but to jump on a fellow Bronco fan who's been living & breathing Bronco football for the last 28 years is of low character Anubis Zyklon. It would be hard to find a picture of me as a child when I wasn't wearing an Elway Jersey.

[Northman]

Where the hell are coming from with that $hit? I never said a thing to diminish what Elway has done. I believe Elway was the better QB for the record. I never said anything about him in this thread until this post.

This thread isn't about Elway. Maybe you can't wrap your head around the fact that a Bronco fan can have an unbiased opinion about Manning but to jump on a fellow Bronco fan who's been living & breathing Bronco football for the last 28 years is of low character Anubis Zyklon. It would be hard to find a picture of me as a child when I wasn't wearing an Elway Jersey.


I didnt jump on you, i asked you a question.

[Beej]

Elway vs. Manning

Passing accuracy: even
Mobility: Elway
Ability to read defenses: even (slight edge to Manning)
Arm strength: Elway
Comeback ability: Elway
Ability to handle pressure: Elway
Superbowls: Elway

Can Manning roll right and throw across his body to a WR on the left side of the field? Does the opposing defense have to commit a safety to shadow him in case he scrambles?

Sorry Nappy, you lose.

[Beantown Bronco]

I think I'll wait until Manning retires before I rank him in the "all time" list. But as far as active QBs goes, he is clearly #1 IMO.

[BigBad]

Elway is better than Manning and IMO it is not even close. Compare their division rivals. Elway played REAL teams.

[ozomulsion]

I didnt jump on you, i asked you a question.

Quote a post before your question where I compared Elway to Manning. Until you can, you jumped on me.

[NaptownChief]

Ability to read defenses: even (slight edge to Manning)




You lost all credibility with that.....that would be about like saying Elway only has a slight edge in mobility over Marino.

[TailgateNut]

You lost all credibility with that.....that would be about like saying Elway only has a slight edge in mobility over Marino.

You ought to change your name to NaptownColt considering your sig. pix of ****head!

[Beej]

You lost all credibility with that.....that would be about like saying Elway only has a slight edge in mobility over Marino.

Elway was great at reading defenses. I did give the edge to Manning, but you're over-exaggerating. Watch a few old games and refresh your memory.

[Hogan11]

And to call the guy arrogant is ridiculous. He is one of the true gentlemen in the games history. Because he is so forced down on our throats, and we live in the age we do, we see him 20 times more on TV than we did Roger Staubach 30 years ago. And in one out of every 200 TV pieces, he might show a human side, and a slight tinge of arrogance or anger.

One out of every 200? It's more like one out of every 20 now that the season is underway. Oversaturation of Manning by the networks will make people turn on him, mark my words....as obivous by reading this thread, that has happened to some already. "From the east coast, to the west coast, to the Dixie highway, back home....."

[BroncoSoja]

Elway was great at reading defenses. I did give the edge to Manning, but you're over-exaggerating. Watch a few old games and refresh your memory.

I love John Elway and all, but there is no way in hell that he is in the same league as Manning (ugh) at reading Defenses... No WAY IN HELL.

Sad to say but when its all said in done, Payton will be the best ever...There will be no getting around it, I'll give credit where credit is due.

[Beej]

I love John Elway and all, but there is no way in hell that he is in the same league as Manning (ugh) at reading Defenses... No WAY IN HELL.

Sad to say but when its all said in done, Payton will be the best ever...There will be no getting around it, I'll give credit where credit is due.

Obviously, this is just subjective opinion. I'm sticking with mine.

[Northman]

I
Sad to say but when its all said in done, Payton will be the best ever...There will be no getting around it, I'll give credit where credit is due.


LOL

[Broncos4tw]

Yea, I can't stand their team, but I gotta admit he can play. On one touchdown pass, a defender was coming right at him. He didn't even glance his way. A little twitch to the right, completely avoided the guy, sent him flying by looking like a clumsy ox, and lasered the TD pass in.

Yea.. he's good. But Elway was better. Better athlete, and better escaping, and most of all, best at making something out of nothing. Also Elway never threw tantrums like Peyton does when something doesn't go his way.

[boltaneer]

Peyton Manning is the undisputed best quarterback playing today.

That's really all that matters. How he compares to quarterbacks of different eras doesn't mean anything, each time their team takes the field.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Peyton Manning is the undisputed best quarterback playing today.

That's really all that matters. How he compares to quarterbacks of different eras doesn't mean anything, each time their team takes the field.Especially to those fans of those teams that never had a "greatest QB of all-time".

[boltaneer]

Especially to those fans of those teams that never had a "greatest QB of all-time".

In all seriousness, did it matter if Peyton is better than Montana or Elway or whoever when he took the field last night? He was the better quarterback on the field and it showed in how he tore apart the Saints defense.

I could care less whether a fan thinks LT is the best RB ever or not. All that matters is what LT does when he steps on to the field this week.

[yavoon]

The Colts looked dominant tonight. But maybe that just goes to show everyone how powerful the AFC is right now.

For those saying that Peyton Manning is playing with the same o-line, remember, Tarik Glenn retired and the Colts had to start a rookie left tackle tonight and he played pretty well. For that offense to not lose a beat was pretty incredible.

Manning makes the defenses pay when they blitz and makes them pay if they only rush four and he has time to go through his reads. The way he makes defenses show what they're doing pre-snap is just brutal. It's almost as if the defense should call an audible when that happens because Peyton is ready to pick you apart right there. It's not the offense that's making him look good, it's the other way around.

yah those ppl that pretend that the oline of the colts is really awesome are delluding themselves, they are competent, but peyton is incredibly hard to sack.

[yavoon]

Elway is better than Manning and IMO it is not even close. Compare their division rivals. Elway played REAL teams.

so elway, playing in an era where the AFC was god awful, is equivalent to manning playing in an era where the AFC is absurdly dominant?

I'd certainly take elway for #1, but some of the reasons can border on the silly sometimes.

[DomCasual]

SoDak, I like you. As such, I am willing to assume this thread is either the result of 1) you drinking, or 2) your second personality taking charge.

There's no way Peyton Manning is the best ever. And I am not a Peyton Manning hater. I actually would count him among my five favorite non-Broncos. But, he's only won one Super Bowl, and he hasn't been playing all that long.

Now, I'll qualify that with a few caveats. First, I think you could argue that Peyton Manning has played as well over a two or three-year period as anyone in history. Second, I think he could eventually be argued as the greatest ever, assuming his career continues as it's been, and he wins a few more Super Bowls.

But the greatest ever? Bleh!

[Popps]

Let me see what Manning does with no running game, marginal wide receivers and a sub-par offensive line.

If he can still carry a team on his back into a few Superbowls... then we'll compare him to Elway.

http://planetrobot.net/caplog/b2EGraphics/2007/07-03/News_Elway.jpg

[Bronx33]

Peyten has a long way to go to earn the best ever tag.

[Popps]

Remember, kids.... Kurt Warner put up equal or bigger numbers sitting back behind a great line in an offensive super-power for a few seasons. So, let's chill out on the "best ever" nonsense for a while.

[epicSocialism4tw]

I'll take the Duke.

[Popps]

I'll take the Duke.

Too many people drinking the Taco-juice around here.

[Hogan11]

How about this...let's do a new drinking game. You have to drink a shot everytime Manning is mentioned by a commentator or is seen during a commercial break on TV.

This will be like the Madden "Brett Farve" game only you'll be drunk to the point of comatose before the first quarter ends instead of the half.

Hmmm, maybe it's a bad idea afterall.....scratch all that. I'll have to find another way to make him tolerable to watch.

[azbroncfan]

I don't know what all the hate is for over Manning other than he destroy's Denver's D.

[Popps]

I don't know what all the hate is for over Manning other than he destroy's Denver's D.

Quite the contrary, bro. Half the Broncos fans on this board choose to kiss Manning's ass after he destroys us, instead of questioning why we can't ever play any defense.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Too many people drinking the Taco-juice around here.

Considering that most of the people here only saw Elway in the twilight of his career, I would propose that it isnt a stretch to say that they have no idea what they are talking about.

[Hogan11]

Hey, maybe it could be done with 100 beer shots instead, like Kimmel & Corolla did with Super Dave Osborne on The Man Show years ago.....

Nah, scratch that....100 beer shots would be coming in wayyy too low for the amount of times Manning would be mentioned or seen on a NFL Sunday. Nevermind

[Popps]

Considering that most of the people here only saw Elway in the twilight of his career, I would propose that it isnt a stretch to say that they have no idea what they are talking about.

Or... they'll look at stats and assume they tell the whole tale, which they never do.

Manning is a fantastic QB. But, start me a franchise, and I still take 5-10 guys in history over him, including Elway.

[Bladerunner]

I think your confusing the issue Nappy. No one has said that Peyton isnt great. But he is not a better Qb than Elway no matter how many stats he blows out of the water. I know you like to bring up the early SB losses but keep in mind that Manning didnt even reach his first SB until his 9th season. Elway had already been to 3 despite the losses and his surrounding talent wasnt even on par with what Manning has had.

At least you have the integrity to state that you are willing to ignore any and all evidence contrary to your belief that Manning is not/will not/cannot be better than John Elway. Most here just try to fantasize up imaginary leaks in the dudes game and say them enough times to make em stick.

IMO Joe Montana/John Elway are the greatest ever so far. But based on what I have seen over the past 10 years, and given 6 more years of it, I don't understand how a reasonable person could conclude that Manning didn't have a better NFL career than both. I think Elway had one more TD than INT after 10 years or something in that ballpark. Whatever it was, it was a far cry from the freakish efficiency that Manning has demonstrated up to now. Even the Super Bowl arguments don't really hold water. The only difference is that Manning lost to the Super Bowl champs 2-4 weeks earlier (in any given year) than Elway did.

You don't really have to like the guy (I don't) to accept that he is a remarkable quarterback. Any honest dispassionate analysis leads to the conclusion that he is on his way to being the best performing QB in NFL history. If the proof is in the pudding, then that would make him the best QB in history. If the proof is in some arbitrary valuation of physical ability and other random nonsense that tells you what one wants to hear, then he probably isn't.

[Bronx33]

When a QB is allowed to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich while waiting for a open receiver it's really hard to fail can jughead even scramble? Also that's how you beat the colts and that's chasing jughead out of his comfort zone.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Or... they'll look at stats and assume they tell the whole tale, which they never do.

Manning is a fantastic QB. But, start me a franchise, and I still take 5-10 guys in history over him, including Elway.

Elway was the ultimate underdog. A fighter, a warrior till the end. A winner.

He was the ultimate winner.

[Northman]

Or... they'll look at stats and assume they tell the whole tale, which they never do.

Manning is a fantastic QB. But, start me a franchise, and I still take 5-10 guys in history over him, including Elway.

Rep.

[ozomulsion]

Considering that most of the people here only saw Elway in the twilight of his career, I would propose that it isnt a stretch to say that they have no idea what they are talking about.

Sad if true. How old do you think most of our posters are? Just curious.

[BroncoSoja]

Let me see what Manning does with no running game, marginal wide receivers and a sub-par offensive line.

If he can still carry a team on his back into a few Superbowls... then we'll compare him to Elway.

http://planetrobot.net/caplog/b2EGraphics/2007/07-03/News_Elway.jpg

Do you think Elway could have carried those Bronco's teams up agianst the likes of the New Englands, San Diego's, Baltimore, and Jacksonvilles of today and won AFC Championships with those teams?

Bottom line as someone already pointed out, back then when Elway was winning AFC (I SAID AFC) championships with those teams the AFC was incredible WEAK!. Which is a huge reason why when we faced the NFC (the stronger division back then) champion those Bronco teams were completely destroyed.

I love what John did for this team, but if you put Payton Manning behind that 98 Broncos line and have him handing off to TD and throwing to a prime Rod , Easy ED, and Shannon sharpe he would have about 6000k yards and 40TD and still half the int's John throws, he in noway in hell is as moble as John but he doesn't need to be...

I think some of you need to stop sipping on the Hateraid and take the homershades off and see things like they really are.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

http://planetrobot.net/caplog/b2EGraphics/2007/07-03/News_Elway.jpg

Has Manning ever had to wash his jersey after a game?

[theAPAOps5]

That's a tough argument since Elway won MVP in '87 and Montana won in '89 and '90. FWIW I think Elway is the GOAT though.

Its impossible to argue. I agree that Elway is the Greatest Ever. But ask others and they wholly disagree because of the SB's he lost. But I like others see that he was the reason they got there. He got the SB in spite of his team. I was at Elways first starting game on the 50, I was 4 but I was there. My first football memories are Elway he is what got me into football so of course he will be the greatest to me.

[BroncoSoja]

Considering that most of the people here only saw Elway in the twilight of his career, I would propose that it isnt a stretch to say that they have no idea what they are talking about.

Or maybe some of us Remember watching one of the most mobile QB's in the history of the game early in his career before the knees starting going bad.

Or maybe some of us remember watching John Toss INT's early in his career just as much as he was tossing TD's.

Or maybe some of us remember watching the most clutch QB in the history of the game choke like a fish out of water in the Superbowl...

Don't come on here spewing crap about people's age old man just because some of us don't walk around with blinders (AKA broncoshades 24/7).

Elway is one of the Top 3 Qb's of all time and number 1 in the clutch, but when its all said in done Manning will be regarded as the better of the two.

[Atlas]

The "Best" Label is highly subjective and some people dislike the guy just because he is successful and beats DEN regularly. However, Manning runs the most efficient offense in the league. Blessed with talent at the skill positions and a solid OL that is better than they get credit. Just like a lot of the great ones, he has excellent players around him that he makes better and they make him better.

If you judge "Best" by performance, he is going to be a top 3 when he hangs it all up. If you judge by talent, he is not a top 10. Have you seen some of the ducks he throws? The Laser rocket arm is a myth. He just works his ass off to throw on time, at the right spot, and to the right guy. He missed a lot of throws he normally completes last night and still had a great game.

You do not have to like him as a person, but you have to respect him as a player who overmaximizes his God given talent. He is just not a physical wonder, but he is one of the best at getting the most out of what he has.

Physically he is impressive. He is 6'5" and has a very strong arm and he is also probably has the highest football IQ ever. I hate the guy but he is aweome.

[Atlas]

The "Best" Label is highly subjective and some people dislike the guy just because he is successful and beats DEN regularly. However, Manning runs the most efficient offense in the league. Blessed with talent at the skill positions and a solid OL that is better than they get credit. Just like a lot of the great ones, he has excellent players around him that he makes better and they make him better.

If you judge "Best" by performance, he is going to be a top 3 when he hangs it all up. If you judge by talent, he is not a top 10. Have you seen some of the ducks he throws? The Laser rocket arm is a myth. He just works his ass off to throw on time, at the right spot, and to the right guy. He missed a lot of throws he normally completes last night and still had a great game.

You do not have to like him as a person, but you have to respect him as a player who overmaximizes his God given talent. He is just not a physical wonder, but he is one of the best at getting the most out of what he has.

Physically he is impressive. He is 6'5" and has a very strong arm and he also probably has the highest football IQ ever. I hate the guy but he is aweome.

[Bronx33]

Has Manning ever had to wash his jersey after a game?



Remember all his home games are played on sissy grass.

[Bronx33]

I remember driving down town and seeing the sign in front of currigan hall welcoming elway to denver..

[Popps]

Do you think Elway could have carried those Bronco's teams up agianst the likes of the New Englands, San Diego's, Baltimore, and Jacksonvilles of today and won AFC Championships with those teams?.

Gee, because the talent Manning got through to win his SB was so dominant, right? Good god, that was EASILY the weakest team I've ever seen win a SB, and I'm 38.

As for manning getting through some of the better teams of the 2000s... he didn't. He was sent home every season until last season, when he faced arguably the worst crop of playoff teams in a couple of decades.

if you put Payton Manning behind that 98 Broncos line and have him handing off to TD and throwing to a prime Rod , Easy ED, and Shannon sharpe he would have about 6000k yards and 40TD and still half the int's John throws, he in noway in hell is as moble as John but he doesn't need to be...

So, you're saying that playing in a great system makes QBs job's easier? Great take, only I just made that point a couple of posts ago about Kurt Warner.

What you need to look at is what happens when said QB has LESS than perfect situations, i.e. Elway's teams. Then... you find the true value of your QB.... not what pretty stats he puts up when given all day to throw to pro bowl WRs.

I think some of you need to stop sipping on the Hateraid and take the homershades off .

Well, sounds like you've been sipping the Taco-juice, to me. If you want to dump all over our championship players, have at it... but don't expect the more educated among us to buy in.

[theAPAOps5]

I remember my dad getting his shirt lit on fire because he was a Raider Fan and took me to see Elway knowing I was becoming a Bronco fan. Man the old Mile High was Ruthless. They almost gave him enough time to take the shirt off before they lit it.

[Popps]

Or maybe some of us Remember watching one of the most mobile QB's in the history of the game early in his career before the knees starting going bad.

He was mobile his entire career. More proof you probably never watched the games.

Or maybe some of us remember watching John Toss INT's early in his career just as much as he was tossing TD's.

Again, someone who uses stats, not circumstance and experience to build arguments.

Or maybe some of us remember watching the most clutch QB in the history of the game choke like a fish out of water in the Superbowl...

Funny, I've always said there were those sports fans out there so football illiterate that they called Elway a choker. Normally those were fans of other teams.

Elway is one of the Top 3 Qb's of all time and number 1 in the clutch, but when its all said in done Manning will be regarded as the better of the two.


Only by brains that have been over-saturated with media hype, and the "everything now is better" crowd. Those with any historical perspective on the game will know better.

[DomCasual]

I don't know what all the hate is for over Manning other than he destroy's Denver's D.

Yeah, I just don't get it, either. He's smart, and he arguably works harder than any player in football. Sure, he does a lot of commercials, and it gets old hearing guys like Madden go on and on (and on and on and on) about him. You can't blame him for doing all the commercials - he's capitalizing on the fruits of his hard work. And you sure as heck can't blame him for a blowhard like Madden being too lazy to find something else to talk about.

Speaking of which - I think Madden gets worse every year. The state of announcing, in general, is becoming almost pathetic. The announcing team is SUCH a big part of the enjoyment one gets from watching a game. It's too bad there aren't better people doing it.

[DomCasual]

I remember my dad getting his shirst lit on fire because he was a Raider Fan and took me to see Elway knowing I was becoming a Bronco fan. Man the old Mile High was Ruthless. They almost gave him enought time to take the shirt off before they lit it.

Not much worse in life than getting your shirst lit on fire. :)

[theAPAOps5]

Not much worse in life than getting your shirst lit on fire. :)

Its quite painful!

[DomCasual]

Its quite painful!

Especially if the shirst has sentimental value.

[Popps]

For the record, I don't hate Manning at all. He's a great player, represents the game well and any fan would love to have him.

I'm just also aware that there are always great players and great teams, and they're all not "the greatest ever." (See the Rams)

[Bronx33]

Yeah, I just don't get it, either. He's smart, and he arguably works harder than any player in football. Sure, he does a lot of commercials, and it gets old hearing guys like Madden go on and on (and on and on and on) about him. You can't blame him for doing all the commercials - he's capitalizing on the fruits of his hard work. And you sure as heck can't blame him for a blowhard like Madden being too lazy to find something else to talk about.

Speaking of which - I think Madden gets worse every year. The state of announcing, in general, is becoming almost pathetic. The announcing team is SUCH a big part of the enjoyment one gets from watching a game. It's too bad there aren't better people doing it.


Madden basically grandfathered into his position and will be tough to remove with the good old boys club behind him but i agree they need to steer clear of old coaches and players and get some new faces on MNF for a change .

[Atlas]

Has Manning ever had to wash his jersey after a game?

He plays most of his games in a dome...

[DomCasual]

Do you think Elway could have carried those Bronco's teams up agianst the likes of the New Englands, San Diego's, Baltimore, and Jacksonvilles of today and won AFC Championships with those teams?

Bottom line as someone already pointed out, back then when Elway was winning AFC (I SAID AFC) championships with those teams the AFC was incredible WEAK!. Which is a huge reason why when we faced the NFC (the stronger division back then) champion those Bronco teams were completely destroyed.

I love what John did for this team, but if you put Payton Manning behind that 98 Broncos line and have him handing off to TD and throwing to a prime Rod , Easy ED, and Shannon sharpe he would have about 6000k yards and 40TD and still half the int's John throws, he in noway in hell is as moble as John but he doesn't need to be...

I think some of you need to stop sipping on the Hateraid and take the homershades off and see things like they really are.

Yeah, it's crazy that some fans might have a bias for a Hall of Famer that had played for the home team. Fortunately, we have your keen intellect to keep us grounded. ::)

[Maximus]

I don't see Peyton as someone who could carry an average team like Elway and others have done. I mean, we've all seen firsthand how he can be shut down just by getting some pressure on him.


This is the biggest load of mule **** I have read in a long time. Elway didn't win anything until he got TD... Stupid statement 2 is... your revelation that if you get pressure on Peyton he can be shut down... This theory works for all QB's in the league.... Get pressure on any of them and they can be shut down einstein!!!

[DeuceOfClub]

Manning is one of the two best QB of his era (with Brady)

Hard to compare QBs from different eras and team but IMO he is up there with Elway, Montana and Marino.

Everything the Colts have is based on Manning skills and abilities. The team surrounded him with good-to-great WRs and TEs and that’s it.
Joseph Addai is nothing more than average at best, he looks great because who cares about Addai when Manning is back there? Edgerrin James was a HoF before he moved to Arizona and averaged 1.2 yards per carry.
The O-Line looks great because of Manning not the other way around. Against non-blitz defense he got just enough time to find one of his explosive targets. When a team put serious pressure, the line crumple to pieces.
They spend zero money on defense (Freeney is the exception to the rule) all of them are young drafted player still under their rookie contract. The defense usually plays with the lead and even in a tie game most coaches will try to score often and fast (Manning effect).
Their defense last year was historically bad against the run (worst in 40 years or so) don’t eat that Madden BS about how good they look. The Saints were still celebrating last season.

When Manning is having a good day, there is practically nothing you can do stop them. But every other Sunday a good team that can either pressure him, cover his targets while not allowing a 6-7 yards per run or frustrate him by keeping him on the bench grinding their poor defense can win.

Look at last year at Mile high, Plummer / Bell scored at will against them. We just couldn’t stop them at all.

[DeuceOfClub]

Almost forgot, and I also hate him with passion.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

This is the biggest load of mule **** I have read in a long time. Elway didn't win anything until he got TD... Stupid statement 2 is... your revelation that if you get pressure on Peyton he can be shut down... This theory works for all QB's in the league.... Get pressure on any of them and they can be shut down einstein!!!This is the biggest load of mule **** I have read in a long time. Only an ignorant Raider fan would say something this stupid and sign his name to it. Of course, they are so starved about ANYTHING good to say about their league joke of a team this is basically all they have left. :wiggle:

[Bronx33]

What maxi-ass is missing is elway was at his best (under pressure) and scrambling i don't think jughead has the skills to function under the pressures elway did.

[theAPAOps5]

Yeah, it's crazy that some fans might have a bias for a Hall of Famer that had played for the home team. Fortunately, we have your keen intellect to keep us grounded. ::)

Don't you dare question Soja he played football for S.E.L.S.U. Community College. We don't dare question his keen knowledge of the game!

[Maximus]

This is the biggest load of mule **** I have read in a long time. Only an ignorant Raider fan would say something this stupid and sign his name to it. Of course, they are so starved about ANYTHING good to say about their league joke of a team this is basically all they have left. :wiggle:

Only a dumb ass mule fan would try to divert attention from the obvious truth. Elway didn't win **** without TD... On the other hand Manning Lost his star running back and won with Joseph Addai and Dominic Rhodes...

[Maximus]

What maxi-ass is missing is elway was at his best (under pressure) and scrambling i don't think jughead has the skills to function under the pressures elway did.

Funny you bring up all the scrambling under pressure... but Elway didn't get his championship until he slowed down significantly.... The running game put the donkeys over the top not elways scrambling and single handed heroics that never got him a SB...

[theAPAOps5]

Only a dumb ass mule fan would try to divert attention from the obvious truth. Elway didn't win **** without TD... On the other hand Manning Lost his star running back and won with Joseph Addai and Dominic Rhodes...

While I agree it took having TD on board to get us to the promised land I don't think that is a knock on Elway. Mannings TD is his two stud WR's. Wayne and Harrison would be clear number ones on any of the other 31 teams in the NFL. Without them he isn't the same.

I mean no one ever brings up the fact that Montana had Roger Craig in the backfield yet without him that 49ers team isn't nearly as good.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Funny you bring up all the scrambling under pressure... but Elway didn't get his championship until he slowed down significantly.... The running game put the donkeys over the top not elways scrambling and single handed heroics that never got him a SB...Go back and read the reply to your original steaming pile that you think was a post. Then look up the word "anything" and report back here.

[Maximus]

While I agree it took having TD on board to get us to the promised land I don't think that is a knock on Elway. Mannings TD is his two stud WR's. Wayne and Harrison would be clear number ones on any of the other 31 teams in the NFL. Without them he isn't the same.

I mean no one ever brings up the fact that Montana had Roger Craig in the backfield yet without him that 49ers team isn't nearly as good.

Agreed... This is not a knock on elway. However, it is a knock on the idiotic logic used by some who try to glorify and over emphasize one players contributions over another. The truth is... the donks won a championship when the team added additional peices and when some of his skills diminished. The idea of a player only being great when the team sucks is absurd. When the team sucks individual exploits become more pronounced ( Michael Jordan's 63 against Boston ) Did jordans ****ty teams make him great or did Jordan become the greatest ever when he was surrounded by a great team?

[Cito Pelon]

Ya know, when credit is due, one has to give credit. Peyton is one hell of a QB. Just reading page one I get the impression of kids that got pushed down on the playground and don't want to play no more.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Ya know, when credit is due, one has to give credit. Peyton is one hell of a QB. Just reading page one I get the impression of kids that got pushed down on the playground and don't want to play no more.

Agree. I hate when the Broncos play him and I think he is over exposed, bu I for one think his self depreciating humor in the commercials he does is funny.

[Sassy]

For the life of me, I can not picture manning ever doing a Helicopter spin for a 1st down! End of discussion.

[Moon§hiner]

Manning may be the best out there right now...not sure if that speaks of the league QB situation or not. I do see some teams that have a small window of opportunity facing a major obstacle on an annual basis for the next 6 or so years.

[Atlas]

Funny you bring up all the scrambling under pressure... but Elway didn't get his championship until he slowed down significantly.... The running game put the donkeys over the top not elways scrambling and single handed heroics that never got him a SB...

It got him to 3 SBs though.

If Elway of '87 was on the Broncos of '97 and '98, Denver would have totally domianted, more than any team in history, well the '98 team anyway. With Elway '87 Bronco team '98 might have went 19-0.

His slowing down didn't help the Broncos win a SB. Him having a better team did. He was just awesome in 1987. He was the MVP of the whole NFL. Put the '87 Elway on the '98 Broncos and they would have been the greatest team in NFL history. I would pity the '85 Bears in such a matchup.

If you doubt what I say just watch the '87 Elway dominate the '87 Bear defense. Now picture the '98 Broncos behind him....it isn't pretty.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Elway performed with the world on his shoulders.

Manning performs on the shoulders of the world.

[TheDave]

JMO... He is already #3 as far as "The best ever" discussion goes.

1. Montana
2. Elway
3. Manning

Again just my opinion, but he is already better than Marino ever was. If he keeps this up much longer he might be looked upon as the best ever. Actually i'm happy to be watching someone this special play...even if he does kick our ass from time to time.

[epicSocialism4tw]

JMO... He is already #3 as far as "The best ever" discussion goes.

1. Montana
2. Elway
3. Manning

Again just my opinion, but he is already better than Marino ever was. If he keeps this up much longer he might be looked upon as the best ever. Actually i'm happy to be watching someone this special play...even if he does kick our ass from time to time.

IMO, Montana is overrated.

[TheDave]

IMO, Montana is overrated.

If you are saying Elway should be #1 and Montana #2... I'm good with that. I think they are VERY close. But anything lower than #2 all-time i think you are kidding yourself.

[Atlas]

JMO... He is already #3 as far as "The best ever" discussion goes.

1. Montana
2. Elway
3. Manning

Again just my opinion, but he is already better than Marino ever was. If he keeps this up much longer he might be looked upon as the best ever. Actually i'm happy to be watching someone this special play...even if he does kick our ass from time to time.

Manning is great but like if he died tomorrow he wouldn't go down as the best ever. I think all our predictions are in consideration of a complete career.

He is not getting worse, though he'll keep improving for another 5 years. There is no limit to what he can do. He is going to be Elway X2.

[Killericon]

Manning's gonna break all the passing records, and will retire with at least one ring.

[TailgateNut]

Has Manning ever had to wash his jersey after a game?

If he had to, the league would step in to change the rules to insure no one would be able to touch the "wunderkind"!

[TomServo]

blah blah, peyton couldnt even make the SB til he had a superteam.
Norris Wease coulda won that SB with the pathetic bears and Gross-man handing him the ball time after time.

[Hogan11]

Okay, first idea was this:
How about this...let's do a new drinking game. You have to drink a shot everytime Manning is mentioned by a commentator or is seen during a commercial break on TV.

This will be like the Madden "Brett Farve" game only you'll be drunk to the point of comatose before the first quarter ends instead of the half.

Hmmm, maybe it's a bad idea afterall.....scratch all that. I'll have to find another way to make him tolerable to watch.

Then the second one was this:

Hey, maybe it could be done with 100 beer shots instead, like Kimmel & Corolla did with Super Dave Osborne on The Man Show years ago.....

Nah, scratch that....100 beer shots would be coming in wayyy too low for the amount of times Manning would be mentioned or seen on a NFL Sunday. Nevermind

Now, here's idea #3 for the 2008 season:

3.2 beer shot for every time Manning gets mentioned or seen on a commercial and a shot of 151 for every TD he throws or runs in.

Hmmmm.....even lightening it up that much will still get you comatose by the end of the half (John Madden's Brett Farve Territory)....it's an improvement, but we're still searching for something that'll make watching Manning tollerable all game long. Back to the drawing board I guess.....

[BMF Bronco]

I don't get why the majority of people rate Manning over Brady for Christ's sakes. Lets see, 3 rings in 4 years?! Come on now people!

[theAPAOps5]

I don't get why the majority of people rate Manning over Brady for Christ's sakes. Lets see, 3 rings in 4 years?! Come on now people!

That is a compelling argument.

[DeuceOfClub]

It still favors Brady but the gap is not as big as it used to be:

Manning: 1 ring in 9 years.
Brady: 3 rings in 6 years.

[NodJello]

Yeah, I just don't get it, either. He's smart, and he arguably works harder than any player in football. Sure, he does a lot of commercials, and it gets old hearing guys like Madden go on and on (and on and on and on) about him. You can't blame him for doing all the commercials - he's capitalizing on the fruits of his hard work. And you sure as heck can't blame him for a blowhard like Madden being too lazy to find something else to talk about.

Speaking of which - I think Madden gets worse every year. The state of announcing, in general, is becoming almost pathetic. The announcing team is SUCH a big part of the enjoyment one gets from watching a game. It's too bad there aren't better people doing it.

Totally agree on the PM statement. However, I actually think Madden while being a total homer for Manning & Favre - is better than most of them. Even if he isn't - when he's gone, you'll miss him.

[Bronx33]

Totally agree on the PM statement. However, I actually think Madden while being a total homer for Manning & Favre - is better than most of them. Even if he isn't - when he's gone, you'll miss him.


Not with his face on all the EA sportd video games the dude is always around kinda like jughead.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

If he had to, the league would step in to change the rules to insure no one would be able to touch the "wunderkind"!:) I'm kind of serious about that question though. Has Manning ever gotten his jersey dirty in a game? Maybe one of the NE games? I just don't remember him needing to laundry his uni very often after games.

I think John had to replace a lot of his after games from getting so dirty and or torn up.

[Bronx33]

:) I'm kind of serious about that question though. Has Manning ever gotten his jersey dirty in a game? Maybe one of the NE games? I just don't remember him needing to laundry his uni very often after games.

I think John had to replace a lot of his after games from getting so dirty and or torn up.


His OL has done a wonderful job of giving him all the time in the world but i think he got smoked once last year but that's the only time i have seen him go down.

[NaptownChief]

I don't get why the majority of people rate Manning over Brady for Christ's sakes. Lets see, 3 rings in 4 years?! Come on now people!



If that is the measuring stick then Brady is better than Elway ever was.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

If that is the measuring stick then Brady is better than Elway ever was.Keep this crap up and I'll Shakespeare your arse some more!

[NaptownChief]

1984 13-3 Defensive rank 27th
1986 11-5 Defensive rank 21st


ROFL!



You might want to get up off the floor and stop rolling. In 1984 the defense ranked 2nd in the NFL in points allowed and 1986 they ranked 15th.

I don't know about you but the last I checked in order for a QB to beat his opposing team he has to put more points on the board than they do....I've never seen a QB get a win by posting more total yards but less points. So the last I checked points allowed is the defensive rank that largely matters to a QB in helping his team get a win.

[TheDave]

I don't get why the majority of people rate Manning over Brady for Christ's sakes. Lets see, 3 rings in 4 years?! Come on now people!

For the same reason we rate Elway over Bradshaw...

[BMF Bronco]

For the same reason we rate Elway over Bradshaw...

Point taken.

[TomServo]

simple fact is.. the League Never bent over backward for elway.
the league didnt care for the Broncos and they never will. Too damn bad we screwed up Favres run.
Forrest peyton doesnt match up EVER. there is a reason marino doesnt have 100 yards rushing his whole career..."i'll dump the ball B4 i get hurt."
Elway......Godanm shanny receivers are covered. IM GOIN FOR IT

[Beantown Bronco]

I don't get why the majority of people rate Manning over Brady for Christ's sakes. Lets see, 3 rings in 4 years?! Come on now people!

What have you done for me lately?

Brady's rings have a lot of dust on them now......and Manning has clearly exorcised his Pats demon by beating them the last few times they've played.

Who does one rank #1 in a power poll before week one? Is it the team that has won more Super Bowls in the last 10 years (but none in the past few years), or is it the team that won it last year and didn't lose many (if any) key players in the offseason?

[Mile High Mojoe]

Wow, I hate the team, hate the big head, but Peyton is sick. He is too good, it is not fair. I don't see Denver beating this team in the playoffs with the INDY offense running at full strength, it will be just plain tough to do. Anyway, I hate to say it, but unless something changes, INDY is going to be good for another 5-7 years.. Please retire early Peyton.Elway was the best ever and did it with far less talented players than Manning has on his teams. E. James, Harrison, Wayne, Stockley, Pollard and Clark, imagine if Elway had any one of these guys back in the Mid-80's. Peyton is the great one today but not the best ever. Elway could scramble, had a stronger arm and was just a better athlete than Manning.

[Kaylore]

Is anyone watching this game(Titans)? Manning is disgusting. Every throw is as close to perfect as it can be.

[Northman]

Is anyone watching this game(Titans)? Manning is disgusting. Every throw is as close to perfect as it can be.

No, but he is killing my defense in FF. :rofl:

[alkemical]

Is anyone watching this game(Titans)? Manning is disgusting. Every throw is as close to perfect as it can be.

i am - i have to admit he might be teh best ever.....

[Popps]

Once again, a team holds the almighty, god-like Manning under 25 points.

I guess it's not impossible, huh?

Maybe the Tenn defense doesn't sit around waxing poetic about how "awesome" he is. Maybe they go out and try to bash him in the mouth all day long.

Maybe we should try that.