Pick one player off each AFC west team

[shakenbake]

Oakland- Michael Huff, homer pick and he would make our Defensive backfield the best in the league.

San Diego- LT, could be the best player in the league, I would love to see what Shanny could do with him on Offense.

Chiefs- I really had a hard time with this. I don't need or what LJ because I have LT. Really there isn't many players I would take over the guys we have. I will go with DJ partly because he is a longhorn and outside of LJ he may be the best player they have.

[OrangeShadow]

Oakland- Michael Huff is the easy choice

San Diego- easy choice is LT but ill take marcus mcneil

Chiefs- Id probably take LJ, i dont like the guy personally but hes one hell of a back

[broncs2bowl]

Oakland- Derrick Burgess---opposite Rice would be amazing
SD-- Marcus Mcniel--move Lepsis to RT and have solid line
KC-- Jarry Johnson--Best RB in the league as far as running the ball, which is wat i want

[RhymesayersDU]

So, we're taking all three together, right?

If so, I've got a couple scenerios:
Oak - Huff
SD - LT
KC - Gonzo

or

Oak - Huff
SD - Gates
KC - LJ

I know we got Graham and Scheff and stuff, but a true stud TE would be awesome. Offense would be unstoppable. I also wouldn't mind Merriman from SD instead of Gates in the second scenario.

[400HZ]

Asoumougha, Tamba Hali, and PHILLIP RIVERS

[shakenbake]

Asoumougha, Tamba Hali, and PHILLIP RIVERS

I thought you were a charger fan, shouldn't you take a Bronco.

Aside from that, I can't take LJ he just seems to have a piss poor attitude.

[400HZ]

I thought you were a charger fan, shouldn't you take a Bronco.

Aside from that, I can't take LJ he just seems to have a piss poor attitude.

In that case I would take Champ, Asmougha, and Waters.

[MileHighMagic]

OAK- Burgess

SD- Merriman

KC- Johnson

[chanesaw]

I would take all three from the Chargers:
Merriman
Jamal Williams
McNeil

I would also like Gates and LT2, but if I could only take 3 those would be them.

If I had to pick one from each team it would be:
McNeil
LJ
Huff

[cutthemdown]

In that case I would take Champ, Asmougha, and Waters.

If i was a charger fan I would take Walker/Asomougha/then a scrub from KC

[Gcver2ver3]

Oakland- Michael Huff, homer pick and he would make our Defensive backfield the best in the league.

San Diego- LT, could be the best player in the league, I would love to see what Shanny could do with him on Offense.

Chiefs- I really had a hard time with this. I don't need or what LJ because I have LT. Really there isn't many players I would take over the guys we have. I will go with DJ partly because he is a longhorn and outside of LJ he may be the best player they have.

Raiders--Derrick Burgess

Chiefs--Larry Johnson

Chargers--LT

Those are the best players of each tem IMO...

Now my list is different for who'd I like from each team:

Raiders--Michael Huff

Chiefs--Derrick Johnson

Chargers--Jammal Williams (or then again I'd prolly still take LT)

[Garcia Bronco]

Jammal Williams - SD
Jake Grove(Homer Pick) - OR
No one from the Chiefs

[rovolution]

Chuggers- Kris Dielman (im not very pleased with our guard situation)

Chorfs- Gonzo

Faiders- Burgess, hell even Sapp wouldnt be too bad

[boltaneer]

If we're talking about taking the player which would most help your current team, I would go like this for San Diego:

Broncos - Bailey

Raiders - Huff (I think Burgess is their best player but the Chargers need a safety right now more than another pass rusher)

Chiefs - Brian Waters.

If we're just talking about taking the best player:

Broncos - Bailey

Raiders - Burgess

Chiefs - LJ

[redrage]

Chiefs- I really had a hard time with this. I don't need or what LJ because I have LT. Really there isn't many players I would take over the guys we have. I will go with DJ partly because he is a longhorn and outside of LJ he may be the best player they have.

That's a pretty homer take. I would wager that there are alt least 3-4 players on every team in the NFL that could upgrade the Bronco roster (or anyone elses) in some way.

Just off hand:

Derrick Johnson
Tamba Hali
Jared Allen
Tony Gonzalez
Larry Johnson
Brian Waters

are all better than their Bronco counterparts at their positions. I could even name a few more, but these are the obvious ones.

[Broncoman13]

This is kind of a kewl thread...

SD- Jamal Williams, one of the best DT's in the league, big body that would do well in Bates' system.

Oak- Jamarcus Russell, We need somebody to hold Cutler's jock!!!

KC- Damon Huard, somebody to hold our new back ups jock!!!

Sad but Damon Huard is probably the 5th best QB in the AFC West!!! Cutler, Rivers, Culpepper, Russell, hell you could probably put him beind both Volek and Ramsey!!!

[Raider Bill]

KC- LJ would be the obvious choice, but I'd go with DJ replacing Sam Williams at the SAM backer spot, and have the dominant LB corps. That stretch and cut style makes a franchise back less of a necessity.

SD - I'd grab Merriman to play RDE and complete that unit. J

Donks - Champ.

[ant1999e]

I thought you were a charger fan, shouldn't you take a Bronco.

Aside from that, I can't take LJ he just seems to have a piss poor attitude.

I think he forgot he was a chargers fan.Ha!

[ZachKC]

Sad but Damon Huard is probably the 5th best QB in the AFC West!!! Cutler, Rivers, Culpepper, Russell, hell you could probably put him beind both Volek and Ramsey!!!

Only one QB had a better passer rating during play last year than Huard.

[azbroncfan]

SD-McNeill
Oakland-Howard
KC-Diaper Boy

[shakenbake]

That's a pretty homer take. I would wager that there are alt least 3-4 players on every team in the NFL that could upgrade the Bronco roster (or anyone elses) in some way.

Just off hand:

Derrick Johnson
Tamba Hali
Jared Allen
Tony Gonzalez
Larry Johnson
Brian Waters

are all better than their Bronco counterparts at their positions. I could even name a few more, but these are the obvious ones.

Not only did I want a new player, but I wanted that player to fill a need for the Broncos. While some players may be as good or better at their respective positions they may not necessarily be a need. We don't need Tamba Hali or Jared Allen so go ahead and mark them off your list. Gonzo is getting old and isn't really a need. I already had LT2, who is better than LJ so I don't need him either.

[no-pseudo-fan]

SD - McNeil
Oak- Gerard Warren, LOL
KC- Croyle, we can use him as a tackling dummy. Like that wasn't going to happen anyway.

[Beej]

SD - LT
Raiders - Huff
KC - Bowe (since we have a QB that can actually throw it to him on fly patterns)

[Florida_Bronco]

Only one QB had a better passer rating during play last year than Huard.

You hang onto that stat pretty tightly. You do realize that Huard is at best a marginal talent who you cannot open up the offense with? With Huard, you better just enjoy watching the dink and dunk passing game, because you ain't gonna get anything else.

[redrage]

Not only did I want a new player, but I wanted that player to fill a need for the Broncos. While some players may be as good or better at their respective positions they may not necessarily be a need. We don't need Tamba Hali or Jared Allen so go ahead and mark them off your list. Gonzo is getting old and isn't really a need. I already had LT2, who is better than LJ so I don't need him either.

Homer on!!!

[Florida_Bronco]

Oh and here is my list.

SD - I'm gonna go with LT. Not a better running back in this league and I'd be weary of taking any of their 3-4 players for our scheme.

KC - If we took LT, we'd already have a back far superior to LJ. Derrick Johnson makes too many mental errors and I don't know how well Hali would fit our scheme. I think Bowe would be a good choice, as I think with a decent QB he could turn into a player.

Oak - Probably Derrick Burgess. I don't see any other players on that team that would be an upgrade for what we currently have.

[redrage]

You hang onto that stat pretty tightly. You do realize that Huard is at best a marginal talent who you cannot open up the offense with? With Huard, you better just enjoy watching the dink and dunk passing game, because you ain't gonna get anything else.

Most Chiefs fans do, and it'll just let them down this season.

I was pretty impressed by how aggressive Huard went downfield last year, but if you look back at his games, nearly all the times he was successful getting the ball downfield was at Arrowhead. On the road against decent defenses the tackles were even worse and Huard looked like a deer in headlights. Solari and Herm cut their play book to nearly nothing. At Arrowhead, without the crowd noise on offense and a little more imaginative play-calling, Huard did pretty well.

These first two games are going to be ugly.

[redrage]

Oh and here is my list.

SD - I'm gonna go with LT. Not a better running back in this league and I'd be weary of taking any of their 3-4 players for our scheme.

KC - If we took LT, we'd already have a back far superior to LJ. Derrick Johnson makes too many mental errors and I don't know how well Hali would fit our scheme. I think Bowe would be a good choice, as I think with a decent QB he could turn into a player.

Oak - Probably Derrick Burgess. I don't see any other players on that team that would be an upgrade for what we currently have.

Huff and Sapp would both be upgrades.

[400HZ]

Only one QB had a better passer rating during play last year than Huard.

Don't hijack a perfectly good thread with that bull****.

[ZachKC]

You hang onto that stat pretty tightly. You do realize that Huard is at best a marginal talent who you cannot open up the offense with? With Huard, you better just enjoy watching the dink and dunk passing game, because you ain't gonna get anything else.

I do not hang on to that stat tightly. I understand what it is and what it isn't. I do know though....I have never seen anyone with a high passer rating that played terrible football...and is was way up there. He makes good decisions, spreads the ball around, and plays well on a team that is centered around the running game.

He isn't a Manning...nobody is saying he is...but the post I responded to originally was getting off base.

[ZachKC]

Don't hijack a perfectly good thread with that bull****.
I am sure you will get over it in time.

[Willynowei]

Taking into account salaries...

San Diego - Antonio Gates
Kansas City - Brian Waters
Oakland - Derrick Burgess

Not taking account salaries...

San Diego - LT
Kansas - DJ
Oakland - Michael Huff

A lot of options with San Diego, I'd say there's 3 players in KC we could use including Brian Waters, LJ, and DJ. With Oakland though, I wouldn't be interested in much more than Huff, or maybe Burgess.

[Florida_Bronco]

Huff and Sapp would both be upgrades.

Huff might be an upgrade over Fergy, but I wouldn't take him over Lynch (age not withstanding). Sapp isn't really a fit for this defense.

[shakenbake]

Homer on!!!

So who would you take for the chiefs?

[KCStud]

OAK-Probably Warren Sapp because Turk and Tank have not proven to be effective in a real game yet
SD-Marcus McNeill
DEN-Champ isn't a need, he would be a luxury for us, but I would take Javon Walker

[KCStud]

Oh and here is my list.

SD - I'm gonna go with LT. Not a better running back in this league and I'd be weary of taking any of their 3-4 players for our scheme.

KC - If we took LT, we'd already have a back far superior to LJ. Derrick Johnson makes too many mental errors and I don't know how well Hali would fit our scheme. I think Bowe would be a good choice, as I think with a decent QB he could turn into a player.

Oak - Probably Derrick Burgess. I don't see any other players on that team that would be an upgrade for what we currently have.

LMAO DJ is just fine. He is getting better and better every year. Best to wait and see how he does in the regular season instead of preseason.

Also, Kirk Morrison could start at OLB for you guys

[redrage]

So who would you take for the chiefs?

Well, since QB and LT are the most pressing needs for this team, I guess I would prefer:

SD: McNeil
Den: Cutler
Oak: Sapp

Sapp is still playing at a high level and would fit seemlessly into Herm's modified Tampa 2.

But there are a # of players that could upgrade KC's roster. Every team has a core of ProBowl/All-Pro type talent.
The obvious upgrades for KC from each team would be:

Denver: Champ, Cutler, Lepsis, Nalen, Hamilton (over Welborn), Walker
SD: Merriman, Phillips, Williams, Castillo, Rivers, V. Jackson, most of their offensive line. Personally I think Gates and LT are slight upgrades over Gonzo and LJ, but that's just my opinion.
Oak: Huff, Sapp, Langston Walker. Maybe Culpepper. That's it. Their two young corners are good, but Law and Surtain are still effective in the cover two.

Oh, and all the kickers. Medlock may prove to be good, but the rest already are.

[Xenos]

In that case I would take Champ, Asmougha, and Waters.
We need a right tackle. Shane can move inside. If anything, we should take Lepsis at right tackle, and Huard as backup.

[Xenos]

I would take all three from the Chargers:
Merriman
Jamal Williams
McNeil

I would also like Gates and LT2, but if I could only take 3 those would be them.

If I had to pick one from each team it would be:
McNeil
LJ
Huff
It's McNeill. But all joking aside, no body ever answered my question regarding how he would fit in a zone blocking scheme.

[azbroncfan]

Oak - Probably Derrick Burgess. I don't see any other players on that team that would be an upgrade for what we currently have.

All 3 of Oakland's LB's would be an upgrade along with most of their DT's.

[ward63]

Chiefs-Dustin Colquit(just b/c I wanted him)

Raiders-Huff

Chuggers-LT(best in the league) or Dielman b/c our G situation is shaky

[JJJ]

Oakland- Michael Huff, homer pick and he would make our Defensive backfield the best in the league.

San Diego- LT, could be the best player in the league, I would love to see what Shanny could do with him on Offense.
Chiefs- I really had a hard time with this. I don't need or what LJ because I have LT. Really there isn't many players I would take over the guys we have. I will go with DJ partly because he is a longhorn and outside of LJ he may be the best player they have.

We know what Shanny would do with LT. Get 1600 yards from him and then trade him the next year for a couple of Browns defensive lineman.

Raiders Asoumaghou (however it is spelled)
Donks - Bailey
Chiefs - No one on that team is an upgrade for the Bolts

[elsid13]

SD - LORENZO NEAL (Great block FB) or JAMAL WILLIAMS
OAK - JOHNNIE LEE HIGGINS or HUFF
KC- This one was tough because I don't liking a lot the talent on this team so I will go DERRICK JOHNSON

[boltaneer]

We need a right tackle. Shane can move inside. If anything, we should take Lepsis at right tackle, and Huard as backup.

The problem is that outside of McNeill none of the AFC West teams have great tackles. None that would warrant using one of your picks in this kind of dream scenario anyway.

Waters would be a slight upgrade over Goff, though I still like Goff. Other than that, I don't see anyone on KC's roster that would be an upgrade for SD. Maybe Law would be a slight upgrade at corner but the sand on his clock is running out. I'm not sure he would fit well in San Diego's defense anyway. He can make some big plays on occasion but takes too many chances and gets burned too often for my liking.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Den - Jay Cutler
SD - Marcus McNeil
Oak - Nmadi Asomugha

[KCStud]

We know what Shanny would do with LT. Get 1600 yards from him and then trade him the next year for a couple of Browns defensive lineman.

Raiders Asoumaghou (however it is spelled)
Donks - Bailey
Chiefs - No one on that team is an upgrade for the Bolts

Brian Waters>>>Dielman
Edwards>>>Cooper or Wilhelm
Surtain>>>Florence
Page>>>McCree

oh and Bowe>>>Buster

[boltaneer]

Brian Waters>>>Dielman
Edwards>>>Cooper or Wilhelm
Surtain>>>Florence
Page>>>McCree

oh and Bowe>>>Buster

Brian Waters would be an upgrade over Goff, not Dielman.

Obviously AJ Smith thinks Wilhelm will be able to produce like Donnie did here or else he wouldn't have let Edwards walk without bringing in someone to replace him. But those are big shoes to fill so we'll see. I definitely trust AJ's player evaluation.

Surtain is debatable. Florence actually has pretty good coverage skills, he just can't hold on to interceptions. I really don't see one being a huge standout over the other at this point in their careers.

I don't know how you can say Bowe is better than Davis. Both of them have yet to catch a pass in the NFL.

[Los Broncos]

SD, LT

Oakland, Huff

KC, TG

[400HZ]

We know what Shanny would do with LT. Get 1600 yards from him and then trade him the next year for a couple of Browns defensive lineman.

Raiders Asoumaghou (however it is spelled)
Donks - Bailey
Chiefs - No one on that team is an upgrade for the Bolts

LOL LOL LOL

[KCStud]

Brian Waters would be an upgrade over Goff, not Dielman.

Obviously AJ Smith thinks Wilhelm will be able to produce like Donnie did here or else he wouldn't have let Edwards walk without bringing in someone to replace him. But those are big shoes to fill so we'll see. I definitely trust AJ's player evaluation.

Surtain is debatable. Florence actually has pretty good coverage skills, he just can't hold on to interceptions. I really don't see one being a huge standout over the other at this point in their careers.

I don't know how you can say Bowe is better than Davis. Both of them have yet to catch a pass in the NFL.

I agree..I forgot to put a 8') on the last one though

[400HZ]

We need a right tackle. Shane can move inside. If anything, we should take Lepsis at right tackle, and Huard as backup.

It was tough to find legit upgrades on KC's roster. Waters is better than Goff. Outside of Waters over Goff...maybe Pollard? Not over Weddle, but maybe over McCree. That is seriously all I can think of. I wouldn't want either one of their AARP corners.

Lepsis is too old and too little for our line.

[Northman]

San Diego: LT hands down
Kanass City: Derrick Johnson
Oakland: Michael Huff

[redrage]

It was tough to find legit upgrades on KC's roster. Waters is better than Goff. Outside of Waters over Goff...maybe Pollard? Not over Weddle, but maybe over McCree. That is seriously all I can think of. I wouldn't want either one of their AARP corners.


That's the thing with this kind of excercise. I can find plenty of upgrades on SD roster, but there are also plenty of positions that I wouldn't consider it an upgrade. I think the way to look at it is--if the two squads were combined, do you think that all the players on defense and offense would be from the Chargers? I'd doubt it.

[400HZ]

That's the thing with this kind of excercise. I can find plenty of upgrades on SD roster, but there are also plenty of positions that I wouldn't consider it an upgrade. I think the way to look at it is--if the two squads were combined, do you think that all the players on defense and offense would be from the Chargers? I'd doubt it.

You think I'm arrogant saying that an all-AFC West team would feature mainly Charger players, but look at the AFC Pro-Bowl squad last year. Eleven San Diego Chargers.

[TheDave]

I just love watching chef fans pick Cutler... :)

[redrage]

I just love watching chef fans pick Cutler... :)

Well, who else is there? If I think McNeill is the best left tackle, then it's between Cutler and Culpepper as my choice for QB.


Kind of like saying the second best reciever in the AFC West is Kennison. Just because it's true doesn't make him an all-pro.

At this point even though Rivers played all last season, I don't think either one has distinguished himself yet. Both are solid prospects, though.

[redrage]

You think I'm arrogant saying that an all-AFC West team would feature mainly Charger players, but look at the AFC Pro-Bowl squad last year. Eleven San Diego Chargers.

No. You said that there was no Chief that would upgrade your team. And I just wondered if you thought if the two squads were combined if the starting lineups would be all Chargers? According to you, it would be. That's ridiculous.

Mainly Charger players? Yes. ALL Charger players? No.

[TheDave]

Well, who else is there? If I think McNeill is the best left tackle, then it's between Cutler and Culpepper as my choice for QB.


Kind of like saying the second best reciever in the AFC West is Kennison. Just because it's true doesn't make him an all-pro.

Did you really just say Eddie kennison was the 2nd best receiver in the division? Honestly, I don't think he would crack our top 3 Ha!

[redrage]

Did you really just say Eddie kennison was the 2nd best receiver in the division? Honestly, I don't think he would crack our top 3 Ha!

With Rod Smith currently on PUP, he certainly the most proven behind Walker. Everyone else is just potential until they put up. Marshall, V. Jackson. What have they shown?

[TheDave]

With Rod Smith currently on PUP, he certainly the most proven behind Walker. Everyone else is just potential until they put up. Marshall, V. Jackson. What have they shown?

In limited time Marshall has already shown that he is special... Our #3 is Stokely and assuming he is healthy (which he seems to be) he is a much better slot WR than quiterson.

And thats just our team... :)

[redrage]

In limited time Marshall has already shown that he is special... Our #3 is Stokely and assuming he is healthy (which he seems to be) he is a much better slot WR than quiterson.

And thats just our team... :)

I'm not wasting my time trying to convince a Bronco fan that Kennison is the 2nd best receiver in the division. You guys are more than close-minded about the topic and as I said before, it's faint praise.

I've heard the same crap about Lelie and Watts that's being said about Marshall. Let's just say I'll wait to crown his ass. Stokley? A nice receiver, but his career won't even touch Kennison's. There is a reason he has carved a niche as a #3 receiver and it ain't because he has elite talent.

[TheDave]

I'm not wasting my time trying to convince a Bronco fan that Kennison is the 2nd best receiver in the division.

That's probably a good decision. :thumbsup:

[400HZ]

No. You said that there was no Chief that would upgrade your team. And I just wondered if you thought if the two squads were combined if the starting lineups would be all Chargers? According to you, it would be. That's ridiculous.

Mainly Charger players? Yes. ALL Charger players? No.

I clearly mentioned Waters over Goff and Pollard over McCree as upgrades. Outside of that though I'm not seeing anything, especially if you rule out your geriatrics.

Off Denver, I would take Champ (duh) and Walker. I know Lynch is awesome, but he's old and I'd rather go with a younger guy. I wouldn't want any of their linemen or LBs. I'd take Marshall too, but wouldn't start him over Walker or Jackson. Graham..maybe but not with his current contract. Manumaleuna blocks just as well and he's cheap.

Oakland - Give me Huff, Asoumougha, and one of their LBs. Burgess would be nice but I think him vs Shaun Phillips would be a wash at this point.

So all told:

WR: Walker
TE: Gates
LT: McNeill
LG: Dielman
C: Hardwick
RG: Waters
RT: Olivea - average player, but who else is there? He run blocks better than McIntosh. Lepsis wouldn't fit in with this line + he's old
TE: Manumaleuna or restructed Graham
WR: Jackson
RB: Tomlinson
FB: Neal (I know he's old and I avoided old guys, but who else is there close to his talent?)
QB: Rivers


3/4 Defense

CB: Champ
OLB: Merriman
DE: Castillo
NT: J Williams
DE: Olshansky - another average player, but once again, who else is there?
OLB: Phillips - I might be homering out not putting Burgess here, but Phillips did a lot better last year
CB: Asomnougha
ILB: One of the Oakland guys
ILB: Cooper
S: Pollard or Weddle
S: Huff or Weddle

4/3 Look

DE: Merriman
DT: J Williams
DT: Castillo
DE: Burgess or Phillips
LB: tough to say. None of the SD guys really fit, and nobody outside of Oakland has a really good LB corps right now. I guess I'd just take Oakland's guys.

Now flame away.

[azbroncfan]

I clearly mentioned Waters over Goff and Pollard over McCree as upgrades. Outside of that though I'm not seeing anything, especially if you rule out your geriatrics.

Off Denver, I would take Champ (duh) and Walker. I know Lynch is awesome, but he's old and I'd rather go with a younger guy. I wouldn't want any of their linemen or LBs. I'd take Marshall too, but wouldn't start him over Walker or Jackson. Graham..maybe but not with his current contract. Manumaleuna blocks just as well and he's cheap.

Oakland - Give me Huff, Asoumougha, and one of their LBs. Burgess would be nice but I think him vs Shaun Phillips would be a wash at this point.

So all told:

WR: Walker
TE: Gates
LT: McNeill
LG: Dielman
C: Hardwick
RG: Waters
RT: Olivea - average player, but who else is there? He run blocks better than McIntosh. Lepsis wouldn't fit in with this line + he's old
TE: Manumaleuna or restructed Graham
WR: Jackson
RB: Tomlinson
FB: Neal (I know he's old and I avoided old guys, but who else is there close to his talent?)
QB: Rivers


3/4 Defense

CB: Champ
OLB: Merriman
DE: Castillo
NT: J Williams
DE: Olshansky - another average player, but once again, who else is there?
OLB: Phillips - I might be homering out not putting Burgess here, but Phillips did a lot better last year
CB: Asomnougha
ILB: One of the Oakland guys
ILB: Cooper
S: Pollard or Weddle
S: Huff or Weddle

4/3 Look

DE: Merriman
DT: J Williams
DT: Castillo
DE: Burgess or Phillips
LB: tough to say. None of the SD guys really fit, and nobody outside of Oakland has a really good LB corps right now. I guess I'd just take Oakland's guys.

Now flame away.


Putting Rookies on all AFC west team? Pretty good with only a little homerism. I would put Rice as Burgess's backup in the 4-3 over Phillips for what he has accomplished so far in his career.

[400HZ]

Putting Rookies on all AFC west team? Pretty good with only a little homerism. I would put Rice as Burgess's backup in the 4-3 over Phillips for what he has accomplished so far in his career.

I avoided old guys. I sort of had to pick unproven safeties cuz Lynch is really the only stand out in the division. Pollard, Huff, and Weddle will all be good though I think.

[Xenos]

No. You said that there was no Chief that would upgrade your team. And I just wondered if you thought if the two squads were combined if the starting lineups would be all Chargers? According to you, it would be. That's ridiculous.

Mainly Charger players? Yes. ALL Charger players? No.

Depends on the defense really. You guys use a Cover 2 and we use a 3-4 so that will affect the linebackers and dlinemen.
Likewise, our oline and denver's. Is our players quick enough to work in a zone blocking scheme, and Denver's in our power blocking scheme? No one answered my question in regards to McNeill fitting in the zone blocking scheme of the Broncos.

This brings up another interesting debate about certain players and certain scheme. For example, people gave Houston a lot of grief for not drafting Bush last year. But would he actually be able to do well in a zone blocking scheme especially with his impatience?

[redrage]

I clearly mentioned Waters over Goff and Pollard over McCree as upgrades. Outside of that though I'm not seeing anything, especially if you rule out your geriatrics.

Off Denver, I would take Champ (duh) and Walker. I know Lynch is awesome, but he's old and I'd rather go with a younger guy. I wouldn't want any of their linemen or LBs. I'd take Marshall too, but wouldn't start him over Walker or Jackson. Graham..maybe but not with his current contract. Manumaleuna blocks just as well and he's cheap.

Oakland - Give me Huff, Asoumougha, and one of their LBs. Burgess would be nice but I think him vs Shaun Phillips would be a wash at this point.

So all told:

WR: Walker
TE: Gates
LT: McNeill
LG: Dielman
C: Hardwick
RG: Waters
RT: Olivea - average player, but who else is there? He run blocks better than McIntosh. Lepsis wouldn't fit in with this line + he's old
TE: Manumaleuna or restructed Graham (What? Ever hear of Gonzalez or Gates?)WR: Jackson
RB: Tomlinson
FB: Neal (I know he's old and I avoided old guys, but who else is there close to his talent?)
QB: Rivers


3/4 Defense

CB: Champ
OLB: Merriman
DE: Castillo
NT: J Williams
DE: Olshansky - another average player, but once again, who else is there? Jared Allen/Tamba Hali (maybe)
OLB: Phillips - I might be homering out not putting Burgess here, but Phillips did a lot better last year
CB: Asomnougha
ILB: One of the Oakland guys
ILB: Cooper Derrick Johnson's better than both those guys
S: Pollard or Weddle Pollard's a stretch as is Weddle. Haven't seen enough of either
S: Huff

4/3 Look

DE: Merriman
DT: J Williams
DT: Castillo
DE: Burgess or Phillips
LB: tough to say. None of the SD guys really fit, and nobody outside of Oakland has a really good LB corps right now. I guess I'd just take Oakland's guys.

Now flame away.

All I can say is Derrick Johnson was on the verge of a monster year last year before he got hurt. Expect to be singing a different tune after this year. As for the omission of Allen or Hali? I can only assume they slipped your mind. Not that I think they are the best, but they certainly deserve to be in the conversation. There aren't any DE's in the division as complete of players as these two.

[Xenos]

I clearly mentioned Waters over Goff and Pollard over McCree as upgrades. Outside of that though I'm not seeing anything, especially if you rule out your geriatrics.

Off Denver, I would take Champ (duh) and Walker. I know Lynch is awesome, but he's old and I'd rather go with a younger guy. I wouldn't want any of their linemen or LBs. I'd take Marshall too, but wouldn't start him over Walker or Jackson. Graham..maybe but not with his current contract. Manumaleuna blocks just as well and he's cheap.

Oakland - Give me Huff, Asoumougha, and one of their LBs. Burgess would be nice but I think him vs Shaun Phillips would be a wash at this point.

So all told:

WR: Walker
TE: Gates
LT: McNeill
LG: Dielman
C: Hardwick
RG: Waters
RT: Olivea - average player, but who else is there? He run blocks better than McIntosh. Lepsis wouldn't fit in with this line + he's old
TE: Manumaleuna or restructed Graham
WR: Jackson
RB: Tomlinson
FB: Neal (I know he's old and I avoided old guys, but who else is there close to his talent?)
QB: Rivers


3/4 Defense

CB: Champ
OLB: Merriman
DE: Castillo
NT: J Williams
DE: Olshansky - another average player, but once again, who else is there?OLB: Phillips - I might be homering out not putting Burgess here, but Phillips did a lot better last year
CB: Asomnougha
ILB: One of the Oakland guys
ILB: Cooper
S: Pollard or Weddle
S: Huff or Weddle

4/3 Look

DE: Merriman
DT: J Williams
DT: Castillo
DE: Burgess or Phillips
LB: tough to say. None of the SD guys really fit, and nobody outside of Oakland has a really good LB corps right now. I guess I'd just take Oakland's guys.

Now flame away.
Olshansky isn't an average player in the 3-4. The guy has just been hampered by injuries. He's a big part of our run defense. Look what happened when he was out during the first KC game.

And Wilhelm is going to be great. You don't need no stinking Raider's LB playing the WILB position on this team.

[400HZ]

I'd say Hali and Allen are the 4th and 5th best. They're good, but Burgess, Merriman, and Phillips are more disruptive. All five of those guys are complete players. Derrick Johnson - meh this will be the third year in a row that a monster year has been promised from him. We'll see.

[Xenos]

All I can say is Derrick Johnson was on the verge of a monster year last year before he got hurt. Expect to be singing a different tune after this year. As for the omission of Allen or Hali? I can only assume they slipped your mind. Not that I think they are the best, but they certainly deserve to be in the conversation. There aren't any DE's in the division as complete of players as these two.
Allen and Hali wouldn't work in our system. Unless they're willing to occupy blockers in order to let guys like Merriman and Phillips get at the QB.

I think someone from another board makes the perfect statement with regards to the 3-4 vs. the 4-3:
"They say the 4-3 is a player's defense, and the 3-4 is a coach's defense.

Players like the 4-3 because LBs can put direct hits on RBs, DEs can rush the passer, and DTs can penetrate.

In the 3-4 everyone's role is less "fun". LBs have to take on linemen and bubble around players, DEs have to hold their blocks, NTs have to occupy linemen as well...its not as fun for the player. Its more passive in nature."

[400HZ]

Olshansky isn't an average player in the 3-4. The guy has just been hampered by injuries. He's a big part of our run defense. Look what happened when he was out during the first KC game.

And Wilhelm is going to be great. You don't need no stinking Raider's LB playing the WILB position on this team.

The problem with Olshansky is that he's ALWAYS hampered by injuries. I was confident listing Cooper because he probably played just as many snaps last year as Godfrey did, but Wilhelm hasn't seen much action. Those Fader OLBs are pretty good, too.

[Xenos]

The problem with Olshansky is that he's ALWAYS hampered by injuries. I was confident listing Cooper because he probably played just as many snaps last year as Godfrey did, but Wilhelm hasn't seen much action. Those Fader OLBs are pretty good, too.

I probably have faith in Wilhelm because he always shows his best during the limited time that he has play. I'm thinking another Foley/Phillips type thing will happen where the student becomes better than the teacher.

[Xenos]

It was tough to find legit upgrades on KC's roster. Waters is better than Goff. Outside of Waters over Goff...maybe Pollard? Not over Weddle, but maybe over McCree. That is seriously all I can think of. I wouldn't want either one of their AARP corners.

Lepsis is too old and too little for our line.

That's too bad. Whenever we take a sack, it always seems like it comes from the right side. I'm hoping Shane is perfectly healthy this year so that nonsense can stop, but with his short arms, I'm not so sure he can deal with pass rushers well.

[400HZ]

That's too bad. Whenever we take a sack, it always seems like it comes from the right side. I'm hoping Shane is perfectly healthy this year so that nonsense can stop, but with his short arms, I'm not so sure he can deal with pass rushers well.

Ya I think he's too physically limited to ever be a complete tackle. It sucks because he's a bulldozer in the run game.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

I'd say Hali and Allen are the 4th and 5th best. They're good, but Burgess, Merriman, and Phillips are more disruptive.

I think Phillips is completely a product of the scheme.

[Xenos]

I think Phillips is completely a product of the scheme.

Maybe. But so is Edwards in a sense when he was the WILB here. Phillips may be a tweener when it comes to the 4-3, but he has the fastest first step on our team. He's so quick that referees would say he jumped offside even though he timed it so perfectly.Some might argue that he's our best pure pass rusher. Pretty decent in coverage as well.

[Florida_Bronco]

All 3 of Oakland's LB's would be an upgrade along with most of their DT's.

Alright, I know you have this major hangup with being labeled a homer, but lets get real here.

[iforgotmypassword]

the hard spot for me is do I take

1. LT and DJ or 2. LJ and Merriman

Raiders - Burgess

sooooo im prolly gonna go.....

LJ, merriman, burgess.... jesus im gonna go play madden

[boltaneer]

Phillips is not a product of the scheme. He has an amazing burst and first step and has that natural ability to bend and twist his body to get around blocks that coaches would kill for their pass rushers to have.

And he's also a very smart player. Never makes a boneheaded play.

Another bad evaluation, Bobo.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Phillips is not a product of the scheme. He has an amazing burst and first step and has that natural ability to bend and twist his body to get around blocks that coaches would kill for their pass rushers to have.

And he's also a very smart player. Never makes a boneheaded play.

Another bad evaluation, Bobo.

I wonder what he would do without an All-Pro rusher on the other side and three defensive linemen ideally suited for the 3-4. He's got talent, no doubt, but I wonder just how much. I don't think he's as good as you make him out to be. I'd rather have Hali and Allen on my team.

[Xenos]

I wonder what he would do without an All-Pro rusher on the other side and three defensive linemen ideally suited for the 3-4. He's got talent, no doubt, but I wonder just how much. I don't think he's as good as you make him out to be. I'd rather have Hali and Allen on my team.

He did very well during Merriman's hiatus. And that was with Castillo out as well, and playing with a calf injury.

[Kaylore]

Oakland - Shane Lechler, I like Sauerbrun but Lechler is older and better and he doesn't do steroids or run his mouth.

Chargers - LT. This is maybe the best football player in the game. Why you fools picked anyone else is beyond me.

Chiefs - I guess Derrick Johnson. They don't have too many options. Wow did anyone else feel like they were at a flea market when they were looking at the Chiefs players? What a crappy team.

[Houshyamama]

OAK - Huff

SAN - McNeill

KAN - LJ, then trade that waste of space for a dominant DT.

[Kaylore]

People keep picking Huff but I'm still waiting for him to do something of worth in the NFL. He looks pretty lost out there.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

People keep picking Huff but I'm still waiting for him to do something of worth in the NFL. He looks pretty lost out there.

He's Oakland's DJ Williams...

[yavoon]

SD-LT
KC-gonzo
Raiders-burgess

not that hard.

[shakenbake]

Oakland - Shane Lechler, I like Sauerbrun but Lechler is older and better and he doesn't do steroids or run his mouth.

Chargers - LT. This is maybe the best football player in the game. Why you fools picked anyone else is beyond me.

Chiefs - I guess Derrick Johnson. They don't have too many options. Wow did anyone else feel like they were at a flea market when they were looking at the Chiefs players? What a crappy team.

Trust me I felt the same way and got called a homer for it.

[redrage]

Trust me I felt the same way and got called a homer for it.
I put out a list of at least six guys that would be no-brainer improvemens for the Broncos.

To think that there are only 2-3 guys on a team that finished AHEAD of you in the standings last year that are good enough to improve your team is definately a homer take.

[Florida_Bronco]

Oakland - Shane Lechler, I like Sauerbrun but Lechler is older and better and he doesn't do steroids or run his mouth.

While I don't really disagree with this, I'd just like to point out that Todd hasn't had steroid trouble since his Carolina days.

[Florida_Bronco]

To think that there are only 2-3 guys on a team that finished AHEAD of you in the standings last year that are good enough to improve your team is definately a homer take.

The problem is you are being too simple minded there. Yeah KC finished ahead of us in the standings, but for what reason? Well obviously our veteran QB decided to suck all season and then he got replaced with a rookie. Our starting RB was hurt all season with turf toe, as was Gerard Warren and we lost several key players during the year.

You have to remember, this is the team that had made the playoffs 3 straight years and went 13-3 in 2005 on route to a AFC Championship game. On the other hand, your team has been the definition of medicore for years and just barely squeaked into the playoffs.

When you take that into consideration, I think it's a little fool hearted to simply say "we have 5 or 6 guys who would improve your team because we had a better record than you"

I'd expect that kind of simple minded thinking blinded by homerism from some retard like Bob or KCStud who doesn't really understand football, but I think you could do much better than that.

[jmz313]

Huff
Williams
DJ

[redrage]

The problem is you are being too simple minded there. Yeah KC finished ahead of us in the standings, but for what reason? Well obviously our veteran QB decided to suck all season and then he got replaced with a rookie. Our starting RB was hurt all season with turf toe, as was Gerard Warren and we lost several key players during the year.

You have to remember, this is the team that had made the playoffs 3 straight years and went 13-3 in 2005 on route to a AFC Championship game. On the other hand, your team has been the definition of medicore for years and just barely squeaked into the playoffs.

When you take that into consideration, I think it's a little fool hearted to simply say "we have 5 or 6 guys who would improve your team because we had a better record than you"

I'd expect that kind of simple minded thinking blinded by homerism from some retard like Bob or KCStud who doesn't really understand football, but I think you could do much better than that.

I was putting it in simple terms to drive home the point a little better, which is in this age of NFL parity, to think that ANY NFL roster doesn't contain AT LEAST 3-4 players that would be an upgrade to what the Broncos currently have is a pretty homer take.

If you were to combine the Broncos roster with any other in the NFL, there would be more than 3-4 starting postions occupied by non-Bronocs. You can say this about any team, not just Denver's.

So to say that as you look over the Chiefs roster and can't find anyone that would upgrade the Broncos is a purely homer take. To say that you can't find anyone that you would want, however, is a true rival.:thumbs:

[boltaneer]

I think most people here aren't interested in a number of KC's players because of their age, because of the position their better players play and because there aren't standout players at many positions.

Law, Surtain, Edwards, Gonzalez make up a good number of the better players on the Chiefs and they're past their prime IMO.

The only no-brainer would be LJ but most people would rather take LT in this scenario.

Waters is a good choice for SD and OAK.

But who else is left? Allen and Hali? I think Denver could use one of them but maybe not so much now with Rice. But the Chargers don't have a need there. The Raiders have Burgess so maybe they could use one of them but they have bigger needs than a pass rusher.

No one on the rest of the roster stands out to me. I can't speak from a Bronco's fan point of view but I can tell you from a Charger fan point of view, Waters was the only player I think would upgrade a position without taking a player past his prime.

[sixtimeseight]

I wouldn't take Allen over any DE on Denver's roster. Sure, he might have more talent than a couple guys on the bottom of the depth chart, but I prefer not to have hard-drinking, partying, two-time DUI offenders on the Broncos' roster.

[400HZ]

I think most people here aren't interested in a number of KC's players because of their age, because of the position their better players play and because there aren't standout players at many positions.

Law, Surtain, Edwards, Gonzalez make up a good number of the better players on the Chiefs and they're past their prime IMO.

The only no-brainer would be LJ but most people would rather take LT in this scenario.

Waters is a good choice for SD and OAK.

But who else is left? Allen and Hali? I think Denver could use one of them but maybe not so much now with Rice. But the Chargers don't have a need there. The Raiders have Burgess so maybe they could use one of them but they have bigger needs than a pass rusher.

No one on the rest of the roster stands out to me. I can't speak from a Bronco's fan point of view but I can tell you from a Charger fan point of view, Waters was the only player I think would upgrade a position without taking a player past his prime.

In most cases, WELL past their prime. That's another reason that so many Chargers would make an all-AFCW list. Most talented team aside, they are also the youngest, especially compared to Denver and KC. ^5

[azbroncfan]

Alright, I know you have this major hangup with being labeled a homer, but lets get real here.

What can't you see?

Howard > Gold

Morrison > DJ

S. Williams isn't that great but about 6's or better than any of Denvers OLB's. I'll call it a push.

DL

Burgess > Rice at this point in their careers

Sapp > Adams

Sands > Gordon

Kelly > Engleberger

You always have to spell it out for you as you just cannot give players on other teams credit due to you ORANGE sunglasses.

[Broncosfreak_56]

SD: Jamal Williams
KC: Larry Johnson
OAK: Derrick Burgess

[Florida_Bronco]

What can't you see?

Howard > Gold

Morrison > DJ

S. Williams isn't that great but about 6's or better than any of Denvers OLB's. I'll call it a push.

DL

Burgess > Rice at this point in their careers

Sapp > Adams

Sands > Gordon

Kelly > Engleberger

You always have to spell it out for you as you just cannot give players on other teams credit due to you ORANGE sunglasses.


Your problem is the same it's always been, and thats the simple fact that you don't want to be seen as a homer so you constantly underestimate our players while overrating other teams players. You're also not thinking this through very well.

Howard over Gold? Give me a fuggin break dude. Howard has played one season with 88 solo tackles, no sacks and no interceptions. Gold has been in the upper echelon of linebackers for years now.

Morrison could go either way. He's got some nice tackle numbers but outside of that nothing special. D.J is now playing his 3rd position in 4 years, so it's kinda hard to get a beat on him. I'll say this though, D.J is a superior physical specimen and playing MLB in a scheme where they are the most important player. I'll give him a year in this scenario before I argue one way or another on that one.

Sam Williams is a scrub going strictly by his numbers. Nate Webster and D.D Lewis have both accomplished more than him at this point and Webster had a really good showing in preseason.

Burgess I agree with.

What do you base taking Sapp over Adams? First off, Sapp is a completely different type of player and that type isn't what Bates looks for in DTs. Sapp is a good player, but he probably wouldn't be a good fit here and Adams is EXTREMELY good at what he does.

Sands is better than Gordon by default, but lets not forget that Gordon is young without much experience and had some impressive plays in preseason. Gordon may very well be the better player by the end of the year.

I wouldn't take Kelly over Engleberger, especially after Khan and SoCal remarked how well Engleberger seemed to do in Bates scheme. In fact I think JE will surprise many people once he gets on the field as a starter.

[azbroncfan]

Gold has been in the upper echelon of linebackers for years now.

.

Point proven. You should just argue with Bob on who is the bigger homer.

[Florida_Bronco]

Point proven. You should just argue with Bob on who is the bigger homer.

Oh really? Well seeing as how much you, others and myself respect Med and trust his analysis, I'd like to throw this gem out there.

Seriously, People have beaten the dead horse on the classic protypical LB of yesteryear and want to replace Ian as he dissed the team when he left over the ACL contract slight he perceived. They see Ian Coming back as displacing DJ Williams from his ballyhooed rookie season at Will and not as an upgrade from Spragan and Sykes the year he left. They really THINK he is not even an average Will when he is regarded by almost eveyone outside of the DEN fan base as a top 10 WILL

So now, what was it you were saying again? :thumbsup:

[ZachKC]

Whoa...FB fluffing Med.

Again.

[Florida_Bronco]

Whoa...FB fluffing Med.

Again.

Why not? I challenge you to find a poster on any who can break down the game better than he can, so when my views align with his, I take that as a very good sign. :thumbs:

Of course maybe it's jealousy because he's made you look like a fool so many times? ???

[ZachKC]

Why not? I challenge you to find a poster on any who can break down the game better than he can, so when my views align with his, I take that as a very good sign. :thumbs:

Of course maybe it's jealousy because he's made you look like a fool so many times? ???

Dude, just sit back and read your posts...get a grip. It is hilarity.

Me? I think Med is a great poster...truly...one of many many fantastic posters than inhabit this forum. Grandiose made up instances of all this foolishness you think he brought on me in your world where everything is childish and dramatic aside.

Him being a quality poster aside...I can't get over that vision of the cartoons with that big bulldog that walks along the street with the little yapping puppy falling over his every move and word. Spike! Hey Spike! Great idea Spike! Yap Yap Yap. Every time you post man. Surely you can see it...you aren't stupid.

[Florida_Bronco]

Dude, just sit back and read your posts...get a grip. It is hilarity.

Me? I think Med is a great poster...truly...one of many many fantastic posters than inhabit this forum. Grandiose made up instances of all this foolishness you think he brought on me in your world where everything is childish and dramatic aside.

Him being a quality poster aside...I can't get over that vision of the cartoons with that big bulldog that walks along the street with the little yapping puppy falling over his every move and word. Spike! Hey Spike! Great idea Spike! Yap Yap Yap. Every time you post man. Surely you can see it...you aren't stupid.

Alright, so I don't get it. Where's the problem is using another well respected person's statements to back up your own. It would be another thing entirely if I was forming my opinions solely from Med's or someone elses statements, but thats not the case.

Honestly I do believe that things like your first post in this thread come about from jealousy and/or dislike of a person. Not a big deal though, as lots of people do it. I've seen you post snide little remarks like that to me the same way that Bob does to me, Kaylore and 24ChampBailey. 9 out of 10 people are going to try and cut down and discredit people they don't like.

[ZachKC]

Alright, so I don't get it. Where's the problem is using another well respected person's statements to back up your own. It would be another thing entirely if I was forming my opinions solely from Med's or someone elses statements, but thats not the case.

Honestly I do believe that things like your first post in this thread come about from jealousy and/or dislike of a person. Not a big deal though, as lots of people do it. I've seen you post snide little remarks like that to me the same way that Bob does to me, Kaylore and 24ChampBailey. 9 out of 10 people are going to try and cut down and discredit people they don't like.

Who doesn't like who? Also, where does 24chambailey come in the mix. Does he even watch football? I read those 3 names and "One of these things is not like the other" came to mind.

There is nothing wrong with using the opinion of another respected member to back up your own...in the least. I think this is beyond that. You use it as a crutch. And you do it often...very often...its cool though if you don't see it. It all goes back to you using other people's opinions when you feel like a football discussion isn't going your way.

This poster is well respected...I think this and someone who knows a lot about football agrees...lah de dah...wash rinse and repeat.

I don't know what makes you think I am making all of this up...seems obvious to me. There are a lot of posters I love reading here and don't make snide remarks too. Of course they are the posters who have takes and back them up instead of being a fanboy of other people's opinions.

[Florida_Bronco]

Who doesn't like who? Also, where does 24chambailey come in the mix. Does he even watch football? I read those 3 names and "One of these things is not like the other" came to mind.

Well if anything, we know he can take Bob to school when it comes to football takes. :thumbsup:

There is nothing wrong with using the opinion of another respected member to back up your own...in the least. I think this is beyond that. You use it as a crutch. And you do it often...very often...its cool though if you don't see it. It all goes back to you using other people's opinions when you feel like a football discussion isn't going your way. Well again, I think your judgement here is clouded by your dislike of me. I don't form my opinions off of Med's statements, but it's sure a good measuring stick of whether I'm right or wrong on alot of football issues. Also, in any discussion when you feel things aren't going your way, what do you do? Find proof to back up your stance, and in a football discussion Med's takes make pretty good proof. :thumbsup:


I don't know what makes you think I am making all of this up...seems obvious to me. There are a lot of posters I love reading here and don't make snide remarks too. Of course they are the posters who have takes and back them up instead of being a fanboy of other people's opinions. I don't think you're making it up per say, but I think your personal feelings about me are making you turn this into something your not. Again people use proof to backup their statements, and Med makes pretty good proof. If you want to check that, you can talk to SoCal, as I'm on record with him defending Gold ever since I've been on this board.

Either way, you got your opinions and I got mine, guess we'll just have to agree to disagree this time.

[azbroncfan]

Whoa...FB fluffing Med.

Again.

Should he change his name to Med's Fluffer?