Court: Mexican Trucks Can Drive In U.S. [Archive] - The Orange Mane

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L.A. BRONCOS FAN

09-03-2007, 05:27 AM

Court gift wraps another one for Bush. :oyvey:

http://wwwimage.cbsnews.com/images/2002/06/05/image511207x.jpg

(AP) The Bush administration can go ahead with a pilot program to allow as many as 100 Mexican trucking companies to freely haul their cargo anywhere within the U.S. for the next year, a federal appeals court ruled Friday.

The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals denied a request made by the Teamsters union, the Sierra Club and the nonprofit Public Citizen to halt the program.

The appeals court ruled the groups have not satisfied the legal requirements to immediately stop what the government is calling a "demonstration project," but can continue to argue their case.

The trucking program is scheduled to begin Thursday.

In court papers filed earlier this week, the Teamsters and Sierra Club argued there won't be enough oversight of the drivers coming into the U.S. from Mexico.

They also argued that public safety would be endangered in a hasty attempt by the government to comply with parts of the North American Free Trade Agreement.

The trade agreement requires that all roads in the United States, Mexico and Canada to be opened to carriers from all three countries.

Canadian trucking companies have full access to U.S. roads, but Mexican trucks can only travel about 20 miles inside the country at certain border crossings such as ones in San Diego and El Paso, Texas.

The government contends that further delays in the project will strain the relationship between the U.S. and Mexico.

In court filings this week, government lawyers said the program is an important interim step in fulfilling the United States' obligations under NAFTA, and that Mexican trucking companies would have to meet the same regulations governing U.S. trucking companies, and in some cases the requirements are stricter.

Representatives of the Teamsters did not immediately return calls late Friday from The Associated Press, and a Sierra Club spokeswoman declined immediate comment.

The program is designed to study whether opening the U.S.-Mexico border to all trucks could be done safely.

Congress ordered the Department of Transportation earlier this year to launch a pilot program to investigate the issue. As the start date neared, the Teamsters and the Sierra Club claimed the public wasn't given enough opportunity to comment on a program that, as proposed now, won't yield statistically valid results.

The government says it has imposed rigorous safety protocols in the program, including drug and alcohol testing for drivers done by U.S. companies. In addition, law enforcement officials have stepped up nationwide enforcement of a law that's been on the books since the 1970s requiring interstate truck and bus drivers to have a basic understanding of written and spoken English.

The Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration, the Department of Transportation agency charged with managing the program, said Friday the court's decision is "welcome news for U.S. truck drivers anxious to compete south of the border and U.S. consumers eager to realize the savings of more efficient shipments with one of our largest trading partners."

However, the agency said it must still wait for final report by the inspector general and for Mexico to begin giving U.S. trucking companies reciprocal access before the program can begin.

The Teamsters had complained that the government has provided no details of the reciprocal agreement.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/09/01/national/main3227439.shtml

baja

09-03-2007, 09:46 AM

Big business' stooge G W Bush wins another battle to bust unions, this time it is America's strongest union. Wonder if the unions will sabotage the trucks like in the old days when Americans actually had had balls.

Bronco Bob

09-03-2007, 10:51 AM

Spider

09-03-2007, 11:10 AM

man I hate that sawed off ****ing runt in office , and to think some of the idiots were proud and happy to vote for him ........

Spider

09-03-2007, 11:28 AM

****ing pukes , it is Labor day ,and you have no Idea were your middle class is ... everyone that voted republican sold out the working man .. good job you ****ing geniuses

Bronco Bob

09-03-2007, 01:05 PM

****ing pukes , it is Labor day ,and you have no Idea were your middle class is ... everyone that voted republican sold out the working man .. good job you ****ing geniuses

Yes, but the Republicans kept gays from getting married, and that's apparently what was most important for them in the 2004 election.

Spider

09-03-2007, 01:20 PM

Yes, but the Republicans kept gays from getting married, and that's apparently what was most important for them in the 2004 election.
oh well that helps I am sure glad we dont have to worry about illegal homos burning flags on our front lawns

Bronco Bob

09-03-2007, 01:31 PM

oh well that helps I am sure glad we dont have to worry about illegal homos burning flags on our front lawns

But here's the punchline. As soon as Bush got elected all talk of a
Constitutional Amendment to ban gay marriages was dropped and
completely ignored afterwards.

Spider

09-03-2007, 01:38 PM

But here's the punchline. As soon as Bush got elected all talk of a
Constitutional Amendment to ban gay marriages was dropped and
completely ignored afterwards.

so now we have to worry about Merika hatin flag burning homos ?

spdirty

09-03-2007, 02:29 PM

Hey Bob, Spide, last I heard Bush wasn't on the most idiotic court in the land. Hopefully they take it up a notch to the Supreme.

The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals denied a request made by the Teamsters union, the Sierra Club and the nonprofit Public Citizen to halt the program.

Spider

09-03-2007, 02:33 PM

Hey Bob, Spide, last I heard Bush wasn't on the most idiotic court in the land. Hopefully they take it up a notch to the Supreme.

it is Bush's Idea and his alone ...... Bush wants to expand the boarder zones to include all of the United States ..........

RMT

09-03-2007, 03:37 PM

no border, no order, no nation ...

L.A. BRONCOS FAN

09-03-2007, 06:52 PM

Hey Bob, Spide, last I heard Bush wasn't on the most idiotic court in the land.

Got reading comprehension?

(AP) The Bush administration can go ahead with a pilot program to allow as many as 100 Mexican trucking companies to freely haul their cargo anywhere within the U.S. for the next year, a federal appeals court ruled Friday.

Bob

09-04-2007, 01:44 AM

Yep. Just another attempt by the Republicans at union busting.
By using Mexican slave labor its just one more step in the elite
Republicans' march in bringing everyone's wages down to WalMart
style slave wages. Of course the right wing shills and dupes will
say it aint so and blame Clinton and the liberals. Expect W*gs
to chime in any minute on this.

I think that most conservatives hate this ...

Heaven knows I do -- Right, is right, wrong is wrong. Bush is so wrong on every issue related to the border. The truth is guys -- few Repubs, and Dems that were elected have the character to do anything about it. I wish that Dems heard more from voices like yours -- to let them know that you are not lock-step with them on this issue. I have wrote my congressman, and a few others. The only thing they seem to understand is when we shut them down by flooding the switchborads in Washington -- like what happend a couple of months ago on a simular issue. Join radical right-wing-nut jobs like me on this issue -- and decry Bush all you want -- but also talk with folks that you elected to help educate them, and if you cant educate -- flood them with calls, emails, faxes, and letters to the point where they can not operate. Man, I hate the fact they will not listen to the will of the people on this issue.

Bob

09-04-2007, 01:55 AM

it is Bush's Idea and his alone ...... Bush wants to expand the boarder zones to include all of the United States ..........

Bush wants to erase the borders for political and $ gain --- The Dems want the border gone as well, but perhaps slightly different reasons.

The only ones that are "talking tough" on border issues are Ron Paul, and Tencreado -- I don’t think that Hillary will do anything about the problem. Having said this, I agree Bush is the worst President that I have seen on this issue -- perhaps because he "talks tough" but at every step undermines our border security ...

So, Spider, what are you going to do? I think that Dem and Repub legislators need to hear from the people, and I think they need to appeal it to the Supreme Court. The 9th Circus and Bush have this wrong -- and the more people are divided by party on this and similar issues, the less likely we can stop it.

Bronco Bob

09-04-2007, 02:06 AM

Bush's plan for the border.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN

09-04-2007, 02:13 AM

Bush's plan for the border.

Yep.

Bush and the cheap labor conservatives he represents would like nothing more than to import Mexico's socioeconomic class system to America.

That's their vision of utopia.

Bronco Bob

09-04-2007, 02:16 AM

<table style="width: 79.92%; margin-left: 42.55pt;" border="0" cellpadding="0" width="79%"><tbody><tr><td colspan="3" style="padding: 0.75pt; width: 99.48%;" width="99%">Bush Plans Super Highway From Mexico to Canada<o:p></o:p>

</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="3" style="padding: 0.75pt; width: 99.48%;" width="99%"> According to Human Events Online, while we are all fretting about illegal immigration, quietly but systematically, the Bush Administration is advancing the plan to build a huge NAFTA (North America Free Trade Association) Super Highway, four football-fields-wide, through the heart of the U.S. along Interstate 35, from the Mexican border at Laredo, Tex., to the Canadian border north of Duluth, Minnesota. Good http://www.apatheticvoter.com/Newsletter_Articles/BushPlansSuperHighway_files/image003.gifgrief. Talk about globalization (and loss of American jobs) at it’s absolute worst.
Once complete, the new super highway will allow containers from the Far East to enter the United States bypassing the Longshoreman’s Union in the process. The Mexican trucks will drive straight into the heartland of America by crossing the border in FAST lanes, checked only electronically by the new “SENTRI” system. The first custom stop will be at a new facility in KANSAS CITY.
Construction is scheduled to start next year. Dozens of U. S. government agencies, state agencies and scores of non-government agencies are working behind the scenes to build the new NAFTA Super Highway. There are also plans afoot to create the North American Union (the equivalent of the European Union) as the logical next step in the loss of our independence and economic freedoms.
The Super Highway is the brainchild of NASCO (North American SuperCorridor Coalition, Inc.), which claims to be a “non-profit organization dedicated to developing the world’s first international, integrated and secure. Multi-modal transportation system along the international Mid-Continent Trade and Transportation Corridor to improve both the trade and competitiveness and quality of life in North America.” Carefully note that the good ol’ USA is not mentioned in that marketing blurb. NASCO has received $2.5 million in earmarks from the U. S. Department of Transportation to plan the highway.
Read the entire article at: http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=14965
</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="3" style="padding: 0.75pt; width: 99.48%;" width="99%"> North American Union - A Top Goal of Secretary of Commerce<o:p></o:p>
Secretary of Commerce Carlos Gutierrez has declared advancing the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America to one of his top goals, writing in a letter archived on the Department of Commerce website that “I have made the SPP one of my top priorities and will utilize the talents and expertise of the people across the Department of Commerce to ensure the SPP is a success.”
Secretary Gutierrez next laid out an explanation of how “security” and “prosperity” fit together, using language that carefully replaced reference to the United States of America to language embracing the concept of “North America” as an economic and political reality.
Secretary Gutierrez enters the discussion by bragging about the importance of the role he is assigned to play:
[I]Organizationally, I am jointly responsible for the economic, or prosperity, component of the SPP, with my Canadian counterpart, Minister of Industry David Emerson, and my Mexican counterpart, Secretary of Economy Fernando Canales. Secretary of Homeland Security Michael Chertoff, jointly with his Canadian and Mexican counterparts, is responsible for the security component. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, jointly with her Canadian and Mexican counterparts, will ensure that the two components are integrated and that the SPP advances our strong relations with Mexico and Canada.
Working groups rewriting U.S. administrative laws in areas ranging from e-commerce, to steel policy, to energy policy, to aviation control, to border crossing policy, to environment (to mention just a few) are arguably creating the legal infrastructure for a regional government to emerge by administrative fiat.
Yet, there is no provision in the U.S. Constitution that justifies the executive branch to rewrite U.S. administrative law without formulating a treaty that must be submitted to the Senate for ratification by a two-thirds vote. These are the cold realities Secretary Gutierrez and SPP.gov seek to side step with their reassuring “security” and “prosperity” platitudes. <o:p></o:p>
</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="3" style="padding: 0.75pt; width: 99.48%;" width="99%"> Our Government is Erasing Our Borders<o:p></o:p>
In line with the push to create the North American Union (NAU), the federal government is slowly but surely erasing our borders.
It began in 1993, with an expansion of the "La Paz Agreement" between the United States and Mexico. Bill Clinton issued Executive Order 12904 (http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/executive-orders/pdf/12904.pdf) in 1994, which created the Border Environment Cooperation Commission, to oversee development in "Border Region XXI," a region 62-miles wide on either side of the U.S./Mexico border. This little-known agreement, a side deal in the much-touted North America Free Trade Agreement, was a precursor to the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America, born in March 2005.
Recently we gave been alerted to the Transportation Super-Highway from Southern Mexico to Kansas City (and eventually to Canada), which will virtually eliminate border security and thousands of American jobs. Government agencies are ignoring the plight of the thousands of businesses and farms that will be seized under Eminent Domain to accomplish this project.
At the root of the problem is an evolving concept of what America is, or was, or should be. For nearly a century, America led the world in freedom and prosperity, not because government decided what is best for America, but because a free people decided what government could, and could not do.
Somewhere along the way, the people got too busy earning a living, or watching ball games, or shopping, or vacationing, or getting rich off government projects, so that the idea of limiting government initiatives fell out of favor. Most of America seems perfectly content to let government do whatever it wants. Aside from complaining, there is little evidence that the majority of Americans care enough about what America is becoming, to do the work necessary to return government to the people.
Consider this: per capita income (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/rankorder/2004rank.html) in the U.S. is $41,800; in Canada, $34,000; in Mexico, $10,000. Were these three economies "homogenized," as is the goal of the trade agreements and the Security and Prosperity Partnership, the per capita income of all three nations would be $28,000.
Once these agreements erase our borders, America will be nothing more than a member of the North American Union, with only a fading memory of glories past.
</td></tr></tbody></table>

http://www.apatheticvoter.com/Newsletter_Articles/BushPlansSuperHighway.htm

Spider

09-04-2007, 02:17 AM

Bush wants to erase the borders for political and $ gain --- The Dems want the border gone as well, but perhaps slightly different reasons.

The only ones that are "talking tough" on border issues are Ron Paul, and Tencreado -- I don’t think that Hillary will do anything about the problem. Having said this, I agree Bush is the worst President that I have seen on this issue -- perhaps because he "talks tough" but at every step undermines our border security ...

So, Spider, what are you going to do? I think that Dem and Repub legislators need to hear from the people, and I think they need to appeal it to the Supreme Court. The 9th Circus and Bush have this wrong -- and the more people are divided by party on this and similar issues, the less likely we can stop it.
Here is my big bitch ...... it is totally unfair to the American trucker , for example , these mexicans will drive for 10 cents a mile , and American truckers cant go deep into Mexico ......
we truckers have enough on our plate now , with ports of entry , highway patrol , D.O.T. inspections , traffic , and deadlines , now we have to deal with a playing field that is stacked against us .......
if it was more set up like Canada trade , I wouldnt be so upset .....
But I am confident the teamsters will find a way to fight back ........
Screw getting ahold of any politician , those ****ers will lie right to your face , no sir I am giving money to the teamsters , the ATA , OOIDA ........
those are the guys best equipped to fight this

L.A. BRONCOS FAN

09-04-2007, 03:14 AM

Bob

09-04-2007, 04:33 PM

Here is my big b**** ...... it is totally unfair to the American trucker , for example , these mexicans will drive for 10 cents a mile , and American truckers cant go deep into Mexico ......
we truckers have enough on our plate now , with ports of entry , highway patrol , D.O.T. inspections , traffic , and deadlines , now we have to deal with a playing field that is stacked against us .......
if it was more set up like Canada trade , I wouldnt be so upset .....
But I am confident the teamsters will find a way to fight back ........
Screw getting ahold of any politician , those ****ers will lie right to your face , no sir I am giving money to the teamsters , the ATA , OOIDA ........
those are the guys best equipped to fight this

You right to be pissed -- I am too. It is another step to eviscerate the middleclass. I sincerely wish you and your family the best. I am ashamed of what Bush has done on this issue and all issues thus far on the border. It is amazing to watch the few in the “government elite” who would benefit from such actions collectively raid the wealth of the citizenry of America, and the generations that have built that wealth for us -- while the people of America get the shaft. Welcome to a one-world government where our vote will mean even less -- the next thing they will asking us to do is implant chips on our wrists to buy and sell...

Bob

09-04-2007, 04:49 PM

:oyvey:

When you read things like these, you have to wonder how anyone could still support this hose job of an administration (anyone but the cheap labor conservatives and the dumb sh*ts who buy their propaganda, that is.)

I think that the Dems support the labor unions better and blue collar folks.

I am one of those idiots that bought into thinking that Bush would be strong on the border based on what he said in the past -- I don’t think I lack intelligence, but I was naive in my thinking. But who out there on the left is really strong on this issue -- that is willing to do some things that may be unpopular? At this point I don’t care much what angle our government takes to reduce the influx of illegal’s, and border breaches like this one -- but once again -- is there anyone on the left you think would tackle it head-on? Who on the right would the left tolerate that would be strong? Perhaps Ron Paul, but he is just to short on cash to pull it off.

I wish the left’s politicians were strong on this issue - I sincerely do - if Hillary was really strong on the border she would get a ton of votes for that stance -- heck it would cause me to consider her -- if I really believed her. Many Republicans talk tough on this issue --- but I think that most would crumble under the $/pressure. I think that Tencredo would standup, but he lacks any charisma. Hucklebee talks tough, Ron Paul talks tough -- but talk has become very cheap.

Spider

09-05-2007, 11:11 PM

I talked to my dispatcher tonight ( got a load of pipe heading to Cheyenne in the mornin) about Mexico , I told him I wont go , he said he would never send me , but wanted to know why I wouldnt go ..... so I told him .....
1. truckstops , few and far between , and ones that are there dont take com data , so that means I take a **** load of American money with me .....
2. Road conditions , roads are pretty rough down there ...
3. rest areas , if there is any , primitive at best
4. Cops , crooks in uniform
5. Rights , I could do something wrong , no one could help me ......
6. I DONT SPEAK SPANISH ....well except the cuss words and fight ...
7. unexpected break downs , I have no idea of where or how to get something fixed down there ..
8. with all the goodies I have in my rig , I would clearly be a target
9. ****ing with customs , been there done that in Canada ......
10. No money in it for me ......

Rohirrim

09-06-2007, 07:56 AM

:oyvey:

When you read things like these, you have to wonder how anyone could still support this hose job of an administration (anyone but the cheap labor conservatives and the dumb sh*ts who buy their propaganda, that is.)

I haven't heard any Dems speaking out against this. The only one who wants to marginally monitor these agreements is Edwards. Billary seems to be on board right down the line. After all, it was Teddy who gave the "Welcome" speech to illegal aliens last year, in really bad Spanish. Of course, if you stand up for the Mexican way of life, you're a progressive and empathetic person. If you stand up for the American way of life, you're a racist.

baja

09-06-2007, 09:20 AM

I haven't heard any Dems speaking out against this. The only one who wants to marginally monitor these agreements is Edwards. Billary seems to be on board right down the line. After all, it was Teddy who gave the "Welcome" speech to illegal aliens last year, in really bad Spanish. Of course, if you stand up for the Mexican way of life, you're a progressive and empathetic person. <b>If you stand up for the American way of life, you're a racist.</b>

When you consider the "American" way of life was made possible by genocide than I guess you would have to allow for a bit of racism attached to concept.

defenseman

09-06-2007, 09:32 AM

I think that the Dems support the labor unions better and blue collar folks.

I am one of those idiots that bought into thinking that Bush would be strong on the border based on what he said in the past -- I don’t think I lack intelligence, but I was naive in my thinking. But who out there on the left is really strong on this issue -- that is willing to do some things that may be unpopular? At this point I don’t care much what angle our government takes to reduce the influx of illegal’s, and border breaches like this one -- but once again -- is there anyone on the left you think would tackle it head-on? Who on the right would the left tolerate that would be strong? Perhaps Ron Paul, but he is just to short on cash to pull it off.

I wish the left’s politicians were strong on this issue - I sincerely do - if Hillary was really strong on the border she would get a ton of votes for that stance -- heck it would cause me to consider her -- if I really believed her. Many Republicans talk tough on this issue --- but I think that most would crumble under the $/pressure. I think that Tencredo would standup, but he lacks any charisma. Hucklebee talks tough, Ron Paul talks tough -- but talk has become very cheap.

Ya think?....dman

defenseman

09-06-2007, 09:35 AM

Bronco_Beerslug

09-06-2007, 09:35 AM

Ya think?....dmanThere is no doubt about it. Republicans support corporate America and Democrats support the working man, overall.
Exactly. That and the fact that, hillary care would be right around the corner, along with a nice fat healthy tax increase. Issue number one is iraq right now, #2 is the border. Again, the border will lose unfortunately...dmanRepublican baloney. There will be no new taxes from Democrats for the working man. There will be tax reinstatements (that Bush eliminated for the wealthy) for those making over $250,000 a year to help pay for the Republican war.

Rohirrim

09-06-2007, 10:16 AM

When you consider the "American" way of life was made possible by genocide than I guess you would have to allow for a bit of racism attached to concept.

So was the Spanish/Mexican way of life. Who could reasonably argue that Mexico wasn't built on the bodies of slaves and dead indians? The Spaniards wiped out the indiginous people of California. Look what the Mexicans are still doing to the Indians in the South? Mexico is still engaged in genocide. We can look at any culture through different prisms, the Greeks, the Romans, the Persians, whatever, and cherry pick our opinion about them based on our political biases. There are also facets of American culture which are extremely admirable.

IMO, it's kind of funny, actually. We are beginning to see some archeological evidence that might lead to the conclusion that the people we now call "Native American" were not the first to come to these shores. It's just possible that they not only came later, but that they may have exterminated the people they found living here. And those people may have been caucasoid. If that turns out to be true, it will really **** with the PC. The truth is, mankind engages in genocide. It's not reserved to particular cultures or races.

You could also say that the American way of life was made possible by immigration. Or ingenuity. Or hard work. Or its wealth of resources. Or its politics.

BTW, do you know why the Apache live in the desert arroyos of the SW? It's because the Plains Indians got access to horses and drove them out of their homes along the Front Range and stole their land. 500 years ago, the Apache lived in what is now Colorado. When the Europeans got here, there were no Apache left, only Arapahoe and Cheyenne.

The concept of any one culture being morally superior to another is flimsy, at best, and usually dependent on the prejudices of the viewer.

baja

09-06-2007, 10:45 AM

<b>So was the Spanish/Mexican way of life. Who could reasonably argue that Mexico wasn't built on the bodies of slaves and dead indians? </b> The Spaniards wiped out the indiginous people of California. Look what the Mexicans are still doing to the Indians in the South? Mexico is still engaged in genocide. We can look at any culture through different prisms, the Greeks, the Romans, the Persians, whatever, and cherry pick our opinion about them based on our political biases. There are also facets of American culture which are extremely admirable.

IMO, it's kind of funny, actually. We are beginning to see some archeological evidence that might lead to the conclusion that the people we now call "Native American" were not the first to come to these shores. It's just possible that they not only came later, but that they may have exterminated the people they found living here. And those people may have been caucasoid. If that turns out to be true, it will really **** with the PC. <b> The truth is, mankind engages in genocide. It's not reserved to particular cultures or races.</b>

You could also say that the American way of life was made possible by immigration. Or ingenuity. Or hard work. Or its wealth of resources. Or its politics.

BTW, do you know why the Apache live in the desert arroyos of the SW? It's because the Plains Indians got access to horses and drove them out of their homes along the Front Range and stole their land. 500 years ago, the Apache lived in what is now Colorado. When the Europeans got here, there were no Apache left, only Arapahoe and Cheyenne.

<b>The concept of any one culture being morally superior to another is flimsy, at best, and usually dependent on the prejudices of the viewer.</b>

No argument

No argument

No argument

"CHIEF SEATTLE'S 1854 ORATION" - ver . 1

AUTHENTIC TEXT OF CHIEF SEATTLE'S TREATY ORATION 1854
Yonder sky that has wept tears of compassion upon my people for centuries untold, and which to us appears changeless and eternal, may change. Today is fair. Tomorrow it may be overcast with clouds. My words are like the stars that never change. Whatever Seattle says, the great chief at Washington can rely upon with as much certainty as he can upon the return of the sun or the seasons. The white chief says that Big Chief at Washington sends us greetings of friendship and goodwill. This is kind of him for we know he has little need of our friendship in return. His people are many. They are like the grass that covers vast prairies. My people are few. They resemble the scattering trees of a storm-swept plain. The great, and I presume -- good, White Chief sends us word that he wishes to buy our land but is willing to allow us enough to live comfortably. This indeed appears just, even generous, for the Red Man no longer has rights that he need respect, and the offer may be wise, also, as we are no longer in need of an extensive country.

There was a time when our people covered the land as the waves of a wind-ruffled sea cover its shell-paved floor, but that time long since passed away with the greatness of tribes that are now but a mournful memory. I will not dwell on, nor mourn over, our untimely decay, nor reproach my paleface brothers with hastening it, as we too may have been somewhat to blame.

Youth is impulsive. When our young men grow angry at some real or imaginary wrong, and disfigure their faces with black paint, it denotes that their hearts are black, and that they are often cruel and relentless, and our old men and old women are unable to restrain them. Thus it has ever been. Thus it was when the white man began to push our forefathers ever westward. But let us hope that the hostilities between us may never return. We would have everything to lose and nothing to gain. Revenge by young men is considered gain, even at the cost of their own lives, but old men who stay at home in times of war, and mothers who have sons to lose, know better.

Our good father in Washington--for I presume he is now our father as well as yours, since King George has moved his boundaries further north--our great and good father, I say, sends us word that if we do as he desires he will protect us. His brave warriors will be to us a bristling wall of strength, and his wonderful ships of war will fill our harbors, so that our ancient enemies far to the northward -- the Haidas and Tsimshians -- will cease to frighten our women, children, and old men. Then in reality he will be our father and we his children. But can that ever be? Your God is not our God! Your God loves your people and hates mine! He folds his strong protecting arms lovingly about the paleface and leads him by the hand as a father leads an infant son. But, He has forsaken His Red children, if they really are His. Our God, the Great Spirit, seems also to have forsaken us. Your God makes your people wax stronger every day. Soon they will fill all the land. Our people are ebbing away like a rapidly receding tide that will never return. The white man's God cannot love our people or He would protect them. They seem to be orphans who can look nowhere for help. How then can we be brothers? How can your God become our God and renew our prosperity and awaken in us dreams of returning greatness? If we have a common Heavenly Father He must be partial, for He came to His paleface children. We never saw Him. He gave you laws but had no word for His red children whose teeming multitudes once filled this vast continent as stars fill the firmament. No; we are two distinct races with separate origins and separate destinies. There is little in common between us.

To us the ashes of our ancestors are sacred and their resting place is hallowed ground. You wander far from the graves of your ancestors and seemingly without regret. Your religion was written upon tablets of stone by the iron finger of your God so that you could not forget. The Red Man could never comprehend or remember it. Our religion is the traditions of our ancestors -- the dreams of our old men, given them in solemn hours of the night by the Great Spirit; and the visions of our sachems, and is written in the hearts of our people.

Your dead cease to love you and the land of their nativity as soon as they pass the portals of the tomb and wander away beyond the stars. They are soon forgotten and never return. Our dead never forget this beautiful world that gave them being. They still love its verdant valleys, its murmuring rivers, its magnificent mountains, sequestered vales and verdant lined lakes and bays, and ever yearn in tender fond affection over the lonely hearted living, and often return from the happy hunting ground to visit, guide, console, and comfort them.

Day and night cannot dwell together. The Red Man has ever fled the approach of the White Man, as the morning mist flees before the morning sun. However, your proposition seems fair and I think that my people will accept it and will retire to the reservation you offer them. Then we will dwell apart in peace, for the words of the Great White Chief seem to be the words of nature speaking to my people out of dense darkness.

It matters little where we pass the remnant of our days. They will not be many. The Indian's night promises to be dark. Not a single star of hope hovers above his horizon. Sad-voiced winds moan in the distance. Grim fate seems to be on the Red Man's trail, and wherever he will hear the approaching footsteps of his fell destroyer and prepare stolidly to meet his doom, as does the wounded doe that hears the approaching footsteps of the hunter.

A few more moons, a few more winters, and not one of the descendants of the mighty hosts that once moved over this broad land or lived in happy homes, protected by the Great Spirit, will remain to mourn over the graves of a people once more powerful and hopeful than yours. But why should I mourn at the untimely fate of my people? Tribe follows tribe, and nation follows nation, like the waves of the sea. It is the order of nature, and regret is useless. Your time of decay may be distant, but it will surely come, for even the White Man whose God walked and talked with him as friend to friend, cannot be exempt from the common destiny. We may be brothers after all. We will see.

We will ponder your proposition and when we decide we will let you know. But should we accept it, I here and now make this condition that we will not be denied the privilege without molestation of visiting at any time the tombs of our ancestors, friends, and children. Every part of this soil is sacred in the estimation of my people. Every hillside, every valley, every plain and grove, has been hallowed by some sad or happy event in days long vanished. Even the rocks, which seem to be dumb and dead as the swelter in the sun along the silent shore, thrill with memories of stirring events connected with the lives of my people, and the very dust upon which you now stand responds more lovingly to their footsteps than yours, because it is rich with the blood of our ancestors, and our bare feet are conscious of the sympathetic touch. Our departed braves, fond mothers, glad, happy hearted maidens, and even the little children who lived here and rejoiced here for a brief season, will love these somber solitudes and at eventide they greet shadowy returning spirits. And when the last Red Man shall have perished, and the memory of my tribe shall have become a myth among the White Men, these shores will swarm with the invisible dead of my tribe, and when your children's children think themselves alone in the field, the store, the shop, upon the highway, or in the silence of the pathless woods, they will not be alone. In all the earth there is no place dedicated to solitude. At night when the streets of your cities and villages are silent and you think them deserted, they will throng with the returning hosts that once filled them and still love this beautiful land. The White Man will never be alone.

Let him be just and deal kindly with my people, for the dead are not powerless. Dead, did I say? There is no death, only a change of worlds.

and this;

http://ebooks.palm.com/product/detail/25967?book=Eyes_of_Wisdom:_Book_One_The_White_Buff alo_Woman_Trilogy

Maybe this way of life is being romanticized but if you look at the respect of nature held by the American Indian I think this is a key understanding that allows for compassion for all living things which is sorely missing in our consumer culture.

Rohirrim

09-06-2007, 12:08 PM

Bob

09-06-2007, 02:38 PM

But why should I mourn at the untimely fate of my people? Tribe follows tribe, and nation follows nation, like the waves of the sea. It is the order of nature, and regret is useless. Your time of decay may be distant, but it will surely come, for even the White Man whose God walked and talked with him as friend to friend, cannot be exempt from the common destiny. We may be brothers after all. We will see.

Ain't that the truth.

That mentality (taken to the extreme) in 1932 caused needless death of Jews when the German people would not standup. If something is wrong and all morals and the "goodness" of societies are relative, then you have no center to standup to it ie France, Belgim and half of Europe. People lop off heads, and we shrug, someone has thier job stolen we shrug. If it is all "relative" there would be a flood humanity to get here. This may also explain why few on the left have the will to fight for anything except Christainity.

The fact is we can standup to ilegal imigration -- its the government we elected that wants money and votes at our expense. So psider's job and many truckers are placed in a tough situation and the rest of us do nothing until it directly impacts ourt family? By then it is too late.

Rohirrim

09-06-2007, 03:23 PM

That mentality (taken to the extreme) in 1932 caused needless death of Jews when the German people would not standup. If something is wrong and all morals and the "goodness" of societies are relative, then you have no center to standup to it ie France, Belgim and half of Europe. People lop off heads, and we shrug, someone has thier job stolen we shrug. If it is all "relative" there would be a flood humanity to get here. This may also explain why few on the left have the will to fight for anything except Christainity.

The fact is we can standup to ilegal imigration -- its the government we elected that wants money and votes at our expense. So psider's job and many truckers are placed in a tough situation and the rest of us do nothing until it directly impacts ourt family? By then it is too late.

That is not what he says. He says that inevitably, all empires fall. In time, the pyramids will return to the sand from whence they came. In the long term, our efforts are futile. In the meantime, the game must be played. ;D

L.A. BRONCOS FAN

09-13-2007, 06:33 AM

Update:

Senate votes to end Trifecta Boy's Mexican truck program

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Senate voted on Tuesday to block funding for a Bush administration test program to let Mexican long-haul trucks operate in the United States under 1994's North American Free Trade Agreement.

http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSWAO00012920070911

And...

Vote Counts: YEAs 74
NAYs 24
Not Voting 2

http://senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=1&vote=00331

Spider

09-13-2007, 10:31 AM

most mexican drivers are scared as well as their companies , it seems D.O.T. didnt fall in lockstep with Bush plan .......
Mexican trucks will face the same inspections , requirements , laws ,as I do ..
here is a small part so you guys will understand what I go through .....
30 minutes behind on last duty status on my logs 50-750 $ fine 10 hours of shut down time ...
1 marker light out =50.00 fine no out of service
1 brake ( mind you I got 12 brakes) a 8th of a inch out of adjustment =160.00 per brake and out of service.......
wheel seal leak =150.00 and out of service.........
oil leak from engine=possible fine .......
these are just a few examples ...... there are alot more

Bronco Bob

09-13-2007, 12:24 PM

Exactly. That and the fact that, hillary care would be right around the corner, along with a nice fat healthy tax increase. Issue number one is iraq right now, #2 is the border. Again, the border will lose unfortunately...dman

Whatever tax increase there would be would be more than made up for
by not having to pay health insurance premiums to HMOs and increased
competitiveness by American companies. Just because you aren't taxed
for it doesn't mean you don't have to pay for it, and pay a lot more
for it.