What's the Beef with Gold?

[cmhargrove]

I was reading one of the Trotter threads and the same old crap kept coming up about Ian Gold. What's the beef? I just want to know why the haters?

I just see Gold chasing guys down, making solid tackles, good for a LB in coverage, helping us win games. What's the deal?

In the years he has been here, no one has been able to beat him out of his spot. I believe that is the way it works, right? If no one can beat him out of his spot, and he is good for 90 tackles, why do people hate him so much?

Just checking...

[Rock Chalk]

Mostly its because big backs and fullbacks kick his ass every time. He's just smallish.

[Jason in LA]

Gold has played very well for the Broncos. I'd say that some people started hating him when he wanted that big contract, then ended up signing with the Bucs. His agents got him to think that he was worth way more than he really was. If I'm remembering right, he ended up getting less money from the Bucs than what the Broncos had offered him.

Gold is a good player.

[vancejohnson82]

He's sometimes too aggressive and it leads to holes being left in the defense

and as was stated above he is smallish

[55CrushEm]

Which is why we should consider putting him at strong safety....he's listed at only 223....which (as pointed out) is small for a LB, but perfect for a safety. Lynch is listed at 220.

Gold is still only 28 years old, while Fergy is 32.....not sure who is faster, but my guess is that Gold could keep up with Fergy. Furthermore, for those that would be concerned with Gold being a pass coverage liability.....ummm, we DO have the best cover tandem with Bailey and Bly, so that should mitigate the concern. Gold and Lynch would be laying the wood in the backfield.

Our secondary could be Champ, Bly, Lynch and Gold. That would allow DJ to go back and play Will.

[Mediator12]

Mostly has to do with a fetish for Adonis looking LB's even if they do a better Job of of being a blocking dummy than playing LB ;D

Seriously, People have beaten the dead horse on the classic protypical LB of yesteryear and want to replace Ian as he dissed the team when he left over the ACL contract slight he perceived. They see Ian Coming back as displacing DJ Williams from his ballyhooed rookie season at Will and not as an upgrade from Spragan and Sykes the year he left. They really THINK he is not even an average Will when he is regarded by almost eveyone outside of the DEN fan base as a top 10 WILL.

That's pretty much it!

[Beantown Bronco]

They really THINK he is not even an average Will when he is regarded by almost eveyone outside of the DEN fan base as a top 10 WILL.

That's pretty much it!

Hit the nail on the head. For all those people in the Trotter thread suggesting that the Broncos should cut him outright.....first of all, you are absolutely insane (and blinded by either hate of Gold or love of DJ) and second, he would have at least a dozen teams fighting for his services. He's clearly NOT the problem with this defense.

[Fusionfrontman]

I think Gold is on the fine line between very good player and playmaker. He is a VERY talented player who comes up with big plays on occasion, just not often enough to be considered an elite playmaker. But the thing with Gold is he is pretty consistent. Only knock I'd say on him which has been said is he is a bit on the small side, but I have nothing but love for Gold. One of my favorite LB.

[Wes Mantooth]

I thought it was because he took off to Tampa and has been a bit of a prick.

[BlaK-Argentina]

I like him, he tends to disappear late in the year but early on he's always flying to the ball making plays. And he's only 28? Good.

[55CrushEm]

I like him, he tends to disappear late in the year but early on he's always flying to the ball making plays. And he's only 28? Good.

Actually, I just checked....he's now 29.

His birthday is TODAY.....8/23/78. :yayaya:

[Man-Goblin]

Actually, I just checked....he's now 29.

His birthday is TODAY.....8/23/78. :yayaya:

Damn, Ian is getting older everyday.

[vancejohnson82]

Hit the nail on the head. For all those people in the Trotter thread suggesting that the Broncos should cut him outright.....first of all, you are absolutely insane (and blinded by either hate of Gold or love of DJ) and second, he would have at least a dozen teams fighting for his services. He's clearly NOT the problem with this defense.

Yeah i can't even believe that came up in the other thread...completely absurd...sometimes i wonder if people watch the games

[Jason in LA]

http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/art/slides/broncos/2005/092605chiefs/8.jpg

He should be in the Ring of Fame for this one.

[BlaK-Argentina]

Damn, Ian is getting older everyday.

Cut him.

[Ratboy]

He's way too small. I think he would be better as a blitzing safety. but we all know this will never happen. Shanahan believes DJ can move to any position without any delay in his ability, Move his ass back to WILL and he will put up 100+ tackles again.

[CBF1]

Ian Gold stole a 4th graders lunch money...so I was told once.

[Jetmeck]

What's this ? We have BIGGER problems in the middle....don't we ? IAN is not the problem right now.

[Jason in LA]

Ian Gold stole a 4th graders lunch money...so I was told once.


Yeah, but that was when Gold was in the 4th grade, so it's all good. ;D

I also heard the samething about Hixon. But Hixon was in the 1st grade when he stole the 4th graders lunch money. ;D

[Bigdawg26]

In the years he has been here, no one has been able to beat him out of his spot. I believe that is the way it works, right? If no one can beat him out of his spot, and he is good for 90 tackles,
I know DJ Williams (who is a better play maker) can beat him out at the Will spot, which is REALLY where DJ belongs if he wants to be a pro bowl player (It's too early to tell if he will be a good MLB).

[Kaylore]

Yeah, but that was when Gold was in the 4th grade, so it's all good. ;D

I also heard the samething about Hixon. But Hixon was in the 1st grade when he stole the 4th graders lunch money. ;D

Actually that gets kind of blown up. The truth is the fourth grader paid Hixon not to beat him up that day.

[Play2win]

Its just the typical OM popularity contest...

[Crushaholic]

Actually, I just checked....he's now 29.

His birthday is TODAY.....8/23/78. :yayaya:

Well, happy birthday, Ian. I agree that he should be a safety.

[jonny1]

I know DJ Williams (who is a better play maker) can beat him out at the Will spot, which is REALLY where DJ belongs if he wants to be a pro bowl player (It's too early to tell if he will be a good MLB).

Well, then Pat Bowlen is wasting a lot of money on Mike Shanahan and all those defensive coaches, since they seem to think that Gold is the best player to have at the Will spot.

But the coaches don't care about winning or putting the best players on the field, they are just there to make Ian Gold happy . . . (place sarcasm smilie here)

[Bigdawg26]

Well the coaches figured that DJ can be just as much of a playermaker at the SLB than he was at WLB when Ian was signed. In order to get the best 3 linebackers on the field. And now if Trotter is signed he is better than DJ at the MLB, thus shifting DJ to his natural position (WLB) where he is a better WLB than Ian. And because Nate Webster looks really good a SLB so that would make Ian the odd man out. So it seemed like a good idea at the time Ian was signed, but it just looked good on paper.
P.S. Although Shanny is a great head coach he is not the best GM in the league either alot of his plans failed like the Browncos, Brain Griese, Jake Plummer, Marcus Nash, Dale Carter, Daryl Gardner, etc.

[Garcia Bronco]

people have dogged Gold since we drafted him in the second round. And if DJ is so much a better WIL.....why hasn't he beaten him out?

[TheReverend]

Well the coaches figured that DJ can be just as much of a playermaker at the SLB than he was at WLB when Ian was signed. In order to get the best 3 linebackers on the field. And now if Trotter is signed he is better than DJ at the MLB, thus shifting DJ to his natural position (WLB) where he is a better WLB than Ian. And because Nate Webster looks really good a SLB so that would make Ian the odd man out. So it seemed like a good idea at the time Ian was signed, but it just looked good on paper.
P.S. Although Shanny is a great head coach he is not the best GM in the league either alot of his plans failed like the Browncos, Brain Griese, Jake Plummer, Marcus Nash, Dale Carter, Daryl Gardner, etc.

Those horrible AFCCG seasons! Ugh, how embarassing!

[Garcia Bronco]

is a great head coach he is not the best GM in the league either alot of his plans failed like the Browncos, Brain Griese, Jake Plummer, Marcus Nash, Dale Carter, Daryl Gardner, etc.

Compared to all the successes? It always amuses me when they say Shanahan isn't good at football operations.

[Beantown Bronco]

And now if Trotter is signed he is better than DJ at the MLB, thus shifting DJ to his natural position (WLB) where he is a better WLB than Ian. And because Nate Webster looks really good a SLB so that would make Ian the odd man out.

I love how everyone is ready to crown Webster and throw DJ under the bus after a few quarters of pre-season play.


P.S. Although Shanny is a great head coach he is not the best GM in the league either alot of his plans failed like the Browncos, Brain Griese, Jake Plummer, Marcus Nash, Dale Carter, Daryl Gardner, etc.

I have a hard time putting Griese and Plummer in the "Shanny failure" categories. Griese got his contract after getting it done on the field....he was very efficient and put up the numbers worthy of a decent contract. He got hurt and was never the same after it....I can't blame Shanny for that. It's not like Griese is out of the league either. He's a capable backup and could be a starter for a handful of teams, same with Plummer.

Speaking of Plummer....a failure? C'mon. The guy had more wins than any QB not named Brady or Manning the last three years. People can be disappointed with the way he played in the AFC Championship game, but then again, how many times did Elway choke in the big game? You want to call him a failure?

[Bigdawg26]

Because DJ never had too. They were never in competition. DJ has been trying to play MLB and SLB.

[Garcia Bronco]

I'll be at the game day after tomorrow....DJ will get the most snaps he's ever had at a new position. we'll see how he has progressed. I would expect that he would have improved.

[Bigdawg26]

I hope DJ does really well and I want him to be the MLB, but I understand what the broncos would be doing if they sign Trotter.

[Vegas_Bronco]

This thread is just bringing out the dual nature of the OM...

... Please, I challenge you drama queens to really think - 'dwell' on what you are going to type before those over anxious digits start dancing. Stop, Think, Post (secret to success) - I promise that you will be much better off. I think TJ has a book out now called "PMS - 10 keys to Posting Mane Successes" - a good read and I highly recommend it for you monthly harangutans.

[AgentOrange]

I love how everyone is ready to crown Webster and throw DJ under the bus after a few quarters of pre-season play.




I have a hard time putting Griese and Plummer in the "Shanny failure" categories. Griese got his contract after getting it done on the field....he was very efficient and put up the numbers worthy of a decent contract. He got hurt and was never the same after it....I can't blame Shanny for that. It's not like Griese is out of the league either. He's a capable backup and could be a starter for a handful of teams, same with Plummer.

Speaking of Plummer....a failure? C'mon. The guy had more wins than any QB not named Brady or Manning the last three years. People can be disappointed with the way he played in the AFC Championship game, but then again, how many times did Elway choke in the big game? You want to call him a failure?

Good post and I'd like to add to it, Shanny also brought in Neal Smith, Romo, to help win championships. Built a line that gave Orlandis Gary, Mike Anderson and Rueben Doughns 1000 yrd seasons. Grabbed Champ and put the broncos in a position to draft Culter (after coming off an AFC Championship) ya he is a real failure.

[-Slap-]

They really THINK he is not even an average Will when he is regarded by almost eveyone outside of the DEN fan base as a top 10 WILL.


That's why Tampa fired him after one season and we had to outbid zero teams to regain his services, right?

That's why Tampa signed him the season before that as the very last free agent off the market, right?

Because he's just so coveted.......:rofl:

Anyway, it's commendable you still have his back. Hell, if Ian would have played up to his contract against good teams, we never would have switched defensive coordinators.

[Hotrod]

Should the thread title be changed to "Wheres" the beef with mini backer"???

[Beantown Bronco]

That's why Tampa fired him after one season and we had to outbid zero teams to regain his services, right?

That's why Tampa signed him the season before that as the very last free agent off the market, right?

Because he's just so coveted.......:rofl:

Anyway, it's commendable you still have his back. Hell, if Ian would have played up to his contract against good teams, we never would have switched defensive coordinators.

You must be forgetting that he suffered what could have been a career-ending injury his last year with Denver. That is why so few were willing to take a chance on him originally. And he only remained in TB for one season because that was how they structured his deal.....and he was still within the "one year rehab" portion of his injury. He wasn't 100% until he got back to Denver.

If you don't think he could be the starting WLB for at least half the teams out there then you are truly blinded by hate.

[-Slap-]

I think Gold is on the fine line between very good player and playmaker. He is a VERY talented player who comes up with big plays on occasion, just not often enough to be considered an elite playmaker. But the thing with Gold is he is pretty consistent. Only knock I'd say on him which has been said is he is a bit on the small side, but I have nothing but love for Gold. One of my favorite LB.

Zero sacks, zero interceptions and zero fumble recoveries last year.

Zero presence at the point of attack.

Zero ability to make an offense concerned if you line him up on the edge and point him at the quarterback. Unless the offense is worried the OT lined up opposite from Ian will die from laughter.

I agree with you. Elite playmaker is a bit of a misnomer.

[-Slap-]

You must be forgetting that he suffered what could have been a career-ending injury his last year with Denver. That is why so few were willing to take a chance on him originally. And he only remained in TB for one season because that was how they structured his deal.....and he was still within the "one year rehab" portion of his injury. He wasn't 100% until he got back to Denver.

If you don't think he could be the starting WLB for at least half the teams out there then you are truly blinded by hate.

Career ending injury my cornhole. He hurt his ACL like nine million other guys who've played in the League before him.

He signed for five years in Tampa and they dumped his ass after one because they knew he wasn't fierce enough for the strong side. He had one year to prove himself and he didn't, so he wound up getting released two years in a row.

[Beantown Bronco]

Zero sacks, zero interceptions and zero fumble recoveries last year.

Zero presence at the point of attack.

Zero ability to make an offense concerned if you line him up on the edge and point him at the quarterback. Unless the offense is worried the OT lined up opposite from Ian will die from laughter.

I agree with you. Elite playmaker is a bit of a misnomer.

Same could be said for DJ last year.....though he did have one sack all season. Ian, though, defensed twice the number of passes that DJ did.

[Beantown Bronco]

Career ending injury my cornhole. He hurt his ACL like nine million other guys who've played in the League before him.

He signed for five years in Tampa and they dumped his ass after one because they knew he wasn't fierce enough for the strong side. He had one year to prove himself and he didn't, so he wound up getting released two years in a row.

He was still recovering from his injury most of that season with TB and the structure of the deal called for a bonus payment they knew they would never make.....to say none of that contributed to why he was cut is just foolish.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Gold is the best LB we have right now.

He is the least of the worries at the position.

[theAPAOps5]

I was reading one of the Trotter threads and the same old crap kept coming up about Ian Gold. What's the beef? I just want to know why the haters?

I just see Gold chasing guys down, making solid tackles, good for a LB in coverage, helping us win games. What's the deal?

In the years he has been here, no one has been able to beat him out of his spot. I believe that is the way it works, right? If no one can beat him out of his spot, and he is good for 90 tackles, why do people hate him so much?

Just checking...

Well in one of the Trotter threads I brought up moving DJ back to Will and what people thought. I never intended to slam Gold just thought about shuffling the corps around if the bad play continues. I also forgot Gold is absolutely adamant about not playing the Sam LB spot.

[serious hops]

That word hate gets thrown around too casually. You don't have to hate a guy to take a realistic view of his performance. I myself have always been a big fan of Gold, but at the same time I won't be all that disappointed if we decide to go another direction in the next year or two.

Gold is smart and plays with a non-stop motor, but I think it's a bit naive to suggest that he doesn't have some limitations due to his size. He might be the smallest LB in the entire league, and he does have a tendency to get trucked. Down the stretch last year, I thought he missed more tackles than I've ever seen from him in the past. And as previously pointed out, WILL is supposed to be a playmaker position, and he hasn't produced in that area recently. He's an excellent coverage LB, especially against shifty RBs, but he doesn't offer all that much as a blitzer unless he comes unblocked. He has a nice burst on the ball to make INTs, but his stone hands prevent him from closing the deal.

Like every player, he has strengths and weaknesses, and both tend to get magnified depending on how people feel about him. At this point in his career, I see him more as a reliable vet than an impact player. He's a heady positional player who won't make many mistakes, but the way he played at the end of last year leaves me a bit worried. We'll see if he can rebound and make some big plays this season. I think talk of cutting him this year is silly, but if he plays like he did the last month or so of '06, I certainly won't be opposed to looking for other options. I respect the hard work he's put in for this franchise, but he's hardly irreplaceable going forward. It would be a smart move for us to bring in some young talent next year, and drafting a true MIKE on the first day would potentially allow us to move DJ back to WILL.

[CBF1]

Actually that gets kind of blown up. The truth is the fourth grader paid Hixon not to beat him up that day.


The Hixon story is the entire 4th grade class paid him not to beat them all up :~ohyah!:

[CBF1]

Zero sacks, zero interceptions and zero fumble recoveries last year.

Zero presence at the point of attack.

Zero ability to make an offense concerned if you line him up on the edge and point him at the quarterback. Unless the offense is worried the OT lined up opposite from Ian will die from laughter.

I agree with you. Elite playmaker is a bit of a misnomer.


LOL I am going to buy a lottery ticket right now... Slap and I totally agree on this LOL

[cmhargrove]

I like all our LB's and hope DJ steps it up this year.

I remember being one of the voices that was crying for Webster to get some play time last year because he looked like a big hitter. I just have that bad taste in my mouth from the SF game - Nate was horrible, I mean really bad. He missed clean tackles all day. The one that especially sticks in my mind was where he left his feet to whiff on their FB, which then ran his way clean to the end zone.

I think players can learn and change. I believe Webster could have a huge year, and I hope it to be true. I just have a hard time saying he will be a better linebacker than DJ or Ian, regardless of position. Hopefully they all come together, we'll see more on Saturday.

[Popps]

Ian would be great if we had some ass-kickers up front, and he could just use his speed to fly around and make plays. We don't, so teams rarely need to double-team anyone... leaving FBs and TEs free to block, run patterns, etc.

[Popps]

P.S. Although Shanny is a great head coach he is not the best GM in the league either alot of his plans failed like the Browncos, Brain Griese, Jake Plummer, Marcus Nash, Dale Carter, Daryl Gardner, etc.

For the record, I wouldn't put Griese or Plummer in with Marcus Nash. Griese had one very good season and Plummer was the 2nd best QB in the history of the franchise, stats-wise. Not bad for a couple of marginally talented QBs who did jack-squat elsewhere.

Nash/Carter/Gardner were just the results of major needs and taking major risks. In fact, Gardner didn't even look that risky on paper, and Nash was fairly highly thought of coming out of school.

To me, Shanahan's shortcoming has been addressing the defense from the back-forward for too long. He developed a major cornerback fetish in the late 90s and got away from what made his successful when he first got to Denver.... building strong lines.

[epicSocialism4tw]

To me, Shanahan's shortcoming has been addressing the defense from the back-forward for too long. He developed a major cornerback fetish in the late 90s and got away from what made his successful when he first got to Denver.... building strong lines.

When the terms of the game are dictated to you and you spend all of your time reacting to what the other team is doing, you are not going to win a superbowl.

You dictate terms at the point of attack, and we just havent been able to execute that phase of the game on either side of the ball in a manner that will produce consistent dominance...the type displayed by a superbowl winner.

That's where we are right now, and I dont see that changing any time soon.

You know, its really kind of humorous that the good ol' Cheffies had the type of dominant line that wins superbowls a few years ago and they totally blew it.

[FloridaResident]

socalbronco started this ****

[Mediator12]

That's why Tampa fired him after one season and we had to outbid zero teams to regain his services, right?

That's why Tampa signed him the season before that as the very last free agent off the market, right?

Because he's just so coveted.......:rofl:

Anyway, it's commendable you still have his back. Hell, if Ian would have played up to his contract against good teams, we never would have switched defensive coordinators.

It was not Ian or the LB's fault, they had to cover the sins of the DL the previous DC did not want. Of course, they did not play as well as they have in the past last year, but Kirk Doll paid with his job. I still can not believe they fired Patterson and kept Burney though. Neither has proven they have a clue with how to teach and Develop DL.

That Ian is a perfect fit for the Cover two means little in the way of personnel. Monte Kiffin Says they acquire every LB in their system based on their ability to play Will, which is why they went after Cato June to play SAM for them until Brooks retires this offseason. The Will and SAM play a lot of the same resposnibilities in their scheme depending on the front. The Will actually plays SAM in there Over fronts and Will in the under fronts.

That is what Coyer did with DJ and Ian in 2005 so that both played on the weak and strong sides depending on the fronts. You know that whole thing most fans had no clue as to why he said they played both responsibilities equally. You know its called a LB stay scheme based on the front.

It also means Ian was a good fit for all seven Tampa 2 teams The cracker is that Tampa released him from his contract in hopes of resigning him for less Jack than they had originally bid for him. It was one of the last personnel blunders Rich Mckay had in Tampa before he gave mike vick the richest NFL contract in history in ATL.

That being said, I personally am not a big fan of Ian Gold the person. He is not a genuine soul, and I can spot those a mile away from what I do. However, his play was graded quite well by the staff as for doing his job each year he has started. He does not make many coverage, read, or mental errors. He knows what he is doing and plays better than the guy across from him more often than not. I'll take that, as most WILL LB's have to be completely free in order to make a play. As you have said, that was not what he has gotten the last two years with this DL.

In short, none of DEN's LB's ever had the opportunity to freelance or roam free as the DL never gave them a chance to go make plays. They had to cover multiple gap responsibilities and cover longer than their contemporaries with true zero consistent DL play. To condemn the LB's for poor play in 2006 is certainly evident as it was their worst overall performance in 5-6 years. However, there were plenty of mitigating circumstances for their lackluster performance, including almost Killing AL Wilson and shortening his carreer in DEN with all the extra work he had to do every play.

Right Now, everyone is seeing what happens when the DL and MLB can not consistently beat the player in front of them. It almost Killed AL and DJ is not filling that void at all. For all the changes on the DL, they still play the run like sissies doing ballet. Until they play with some passion on the DL, the LB's are at the mercy of the offense getting exposed in ways the scheme is not designed to handle. Too much talk, and not enough ACTION up front!.

[Taco John]

The reason I don't like Gold: because he's a downgrade at the position.

I think moving DJ from WLB and bringing in Gold ranks up as one of the worst personnel mistakes we've made in the last few years. We had a superstar WLB in the making in DJ. Then we bring in Gold, an average WLB (Downgrade number one). We move DJ over to the strong side, and now we have a below average SLB that we're locked into because of the first round investment (downgrade number two). Of course now our former aspiring star WLB is our middle linebacker. Ha! Why do I get the feeling that we're going to get killed up the middle this year, and DJ is going to take the blame for it?

The way I see it, we wasted a first round pick and a larger than he deserves contract on Gold, and the product on the field from him, especially down the stretch, isn't worth it.

He's a Bronco, so I still cheer when he does good. But I'm not forgetting how much we've sacrificed for the guy. It rather chaps my ass.

[bronco militia]

The reason I don't like Gold: because he's a downgrade at the position.

I think moving DJ from WLB and bringing in Gold ranks up as one of the worst personnel mistakes we've made in the last few years. We had a superstar WLB in the making in DJ. Then we bring in Gold, an average WLB (Downgrade number one). We move DJ over to the strong side, and now we have a below average SLB that we're locked into because of the first round investment (downgrade number two). Of course now our former aspiring star WLB is oru middle linebacker. Ha!

The way I see it, we wasted a first round pick and a larger than he deserves contract on Gold, and the product on the field from him, especially down the stretch, isn't worth it.

He's a Bronco, so I still cheer when he does good. But I'm not forgetting how much we've sacrificed for the guy. It rather chaps my ass.

bingo! :thumbsup:

[Taco John]

When DJ williams leaves this team, and another team picks him up and play him in his natural position, and he's kicking ass left and right for the Raiders or the Chiefs or Chargers or Patriots... I swear to God... :nono:

[epicSocialism4tw]

The reason I don't like Gold: because he's a downgrade at the position.
I think moving DJ from WLB and bringing in Gold ranks up as one of the worst personnel mistakes we've made in the last few years. We had a superstar WLB in the making in DJ. Then we bring in Gold, an average WLB (Downgrade number one). We move DJ over to the strong side, and now we have a below average SLB that we're locked into because of the first round investment (downgrade number two). Of course now our former aspiring star WLB is oru middle linebacker. Ha!
The way I see it, we wasted a first round pick and a larger than he deserves contract on Gold, and the product on the field from him, especially down the stretch, isn't worth it.
He's a Bronco, so I still cheer when he does good. But I'm not forgetting how much we've sacrificed for the guy. It rather chaps my ass.


DJ is one of the more overrated players in the franchise. What has the guy really done? I know that SoCal loves the guy, but I just dont see it. He's a fantastic athlete with very little understanding. Hopefully that changes with more exposure, but he doesnt have a feel for the game.

I dont think that you can say that DJ is better than Ian at a position that DJ has never played in the NFL and one that Ian has excelled at for a long time. Especially given the evidence that we now have that DJ has a very difficult time with the cerebral aspect of MLB.

[Rock Chalk]

DJ is one of the more overrated players in the franchise. What has the guy really done? I know that SoCal loves the guy, but I just dont see it. He's a fantastic athlete with very little understanding. Hopefully that changes with more exposure, but he doesnt have a feel for the game.

I dont think that you can say that DJ is better than Ian at a position that DJ has never played in the NFL and one that Ian has excelled at for a long time. Especially given the evidence that we now have that DJ has a very difficult time with the cerebral aspect of MLB.

Umm DJ has played Will. His rookie year and was pretty damn good as a Will LB. Comparable as a rookie to Ian as a veteran.

[BroncoBuff]

The reason I'm not high on Ian Gold is that he very, very rarely makes plays. So very few sacks, so very few interceptions, and so very few tackles for loss. I'm not saying he has to be Shawn Merriman or anything, but a Will linebacker needs to make a difference once in a while ... and he never does.

The last difference-making play he made was batting down Brunell's 4th down pass in 2005 to preserve the win over the Redskins in the rain at Invesco. I've been waiting for another ever since.

[bronco militia]

anyone else remember a story from draft day 2004, about Shanny picking up the phone and calling Gold while the Broncos were on the clock?

[Beantown Bronco]

The last difference-making play he made was batting down Brunell's 4th down pass in 2005 to preserve the win over the Redskins in the rain at Invesco. I've been waiting for another ever since.

That's one more difference-making play than DJ. Seriously, I can't think of any.

[Taco John]

DJ is one of the more overrated players in the franchise. What has the guy really done?


You mean other than coming in his ROOKIE YEAR and leading the Broncos Defense in tackles at 114, with 82 solo tackles, two sacks, one interception, and one forced fumble?

Huh... Big suprise... We move him out of position, and put him on the strong side where his strengths are neutralized and he's eaten up by blocks, and the best hest done in total tackles is 57 and 76, and one sack in two years.

You're right that DJ is nothing to get excited about. He's playing out of position, and is a below average linebacker out of position.

But he's much better than Ian Gold is at the WLBG spot. Ian Gold only WISHES he had a season like DJ Williams had his rookie year. He might actually be worth the cost if he even had ONE like it.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Umm DJ has played Will. His rookie year and was pretty damn good as a Will LB. Comparable as a rookie to Ian as a veteran.

Youre right.

Still, I dont see how he would be comparable to Gold based on a decent rookie showing.

[Taco John]

Youre right.

Still, I dont see how he would be comparable to Gold based on a decent rookie showing.



Decent?

Hilarious!


Did you say decent?

[Taco John]

DOMINATING rookie showing.

[Beantown Bronco]

But he's much better than Ian Gold is at the WLBG spot. Ian Gold only WISHES he had a season like DJ Williams had his rookie year. He might actually be worth the cost if he even had ONE like it.

Evidently you missed the 2002 season, where Gold racked up more solo tackles, sacks and passes defensed than DJ.....

[epicSocialism4tw]

DOMINATING rookie showing.

LOL

Stop being dramatic.

Dominating? The guy wasnt close to the best backer on the team.

[Taco John]

Evidently you missed the 2002 season, where Gold racked up more solo tackles, sacks and passes defensed than DJ.....

Fair enough... Gold had less total tackles that year, but you're right, his third year as a pro was comprable to DJs first year.

[bronco militia]

Evidently you missed the 2002 season, where Gold racked up more solo tackles, sacks and passes defensed than DJ.....


but you are avoiding in 2003 Gold was represented by the Poston Brothers, coming off an ACL injury, and was demanding to get paid regardless of his health

[epicSocialism4tw]

Fair enough... Gold had less total tackles that year, but you're right, his third year as a pro was comprable to DJs first year.

It must be nice playing next to Al Wilson.

[Beantown Bronco]

Huh... Big suprise... We move him out of position, and put him on the strong side where his strengths are neutralized and he's eaten up by blocks, and the best hest done in total tackles is 57 and 76, and one sack in two years.

The coaches have said that, based off of the opponent's offensive alignments, both DJ and Gold played about equal amounts of WLB and SLB, so he really is NOT playing out of position like some would believe. Or do you really believe that the opponents keep the TE and/or motion receivers on the same side of the QB every snap?

DJ may have moved from one side of the MLB to the other, but that doesn't mean his responsibilities really changed all that much. His numbers going down correspond more to the (lack of) quality of play of the DLine more than anything IMO.

[Cito Pelon]

I was reading one of the Trotter threads and the same old crap kept coming up about Ian Gold. What's the beef? I just want to know why the haters?

I just see Gold chasing guys down, making solid tackles, good for a LB in coverage, helping us win games. What's the deal?

In the years he has been here, no one has been able to beat him out of his spot. I believe that is the way it works, right? If no one can beat him out of his spot, and he is good for 90 tackles, why do people hate him so much?

Just checking...

I don't think he's very good in pass coverage. 3 INT's and 21 passes defensed for his career isn't impressive. Compared to say Donnie Edwards - 3 INT's is an average season for Edwards. Kick coverage he made the Pro Bowl one season for that. And Gold's never had 90 unassisted tackles in a season. Compare him again to Donnie Edwards, 90 unassisted tackles is a below-average season for Edwards.

So Gold isn't real productive, never has been.

[Taco John]

LOL

Stop being dramatic.

Dominating? The guy wasnt close to the best backer on the team.

I'm not going to bother with you Llama... Everybody knows that even when you're wrong, you'll argue as though you're right and never adjust your argument to the actual facts.

In 2004, DJ Williams had a dominating season, leading the Broncos in total tackles and solo tackles. You can sit and mince who was the best linebacker on the team. I don't care. It doesn't change the facts about DJ dominating his rookie year, being moved out of position, and subsequently falling off the face of the earth. It doesn't change the wasted first round pick over the deal. It doesn't change that Ian Gold hasn't put up anything to show he deserved the spot over DJ.

[Beantown Bronco]

but you are avoiding in 2003 Gold was represented by the Poston Brothers, coming off an ACL injury, and was demanding to get paid regardless of his health

Not avoiding it at all. I've talked about it AT LENGTH in this thread.

I was challenged to present a single season of work by Gold that was as good or better than DJs rookie season and I did it. More solo tackles, 6.5 sacks instead of DJs 2 sacks, and double the passes defensed seems to be pretty good to me. And if TJ thinks DJ's rookie season was "dominating", I can't even imagine a word for what Gold did....

[Taco John]

It must be nice playing next to Al Wilson.




Huh? Since when does Al Wilson take up two gaps?

I love Wilson, but I've never heard a theory that a WLB's success is based on anything the Middle Linebacker is doing. Wouldn't the players in front of him have more of an impact on his success than a middle linebacker?

Do you even know what you're talking about?

[BroncoBuff]

Will
DJ > Gold

Sam
DJ > Spragan

But ...

DJ-Sam + Gold-Will > DJ-Will + Spragan-Sam



Those were the choices they made. The signing of Gold, after DJ was drafted, was the big mistake that we're still paying for today.

[BlaK-Argentina]

It must be nice playing next to Al Wilson.

I sure miss big Al.

Our defense would be great with a healthy Wilson, DJ at weakside and Webster at SLB.

Damnit.

[epicSocialism4tw]

I sure miss big Al.

Our defense would be great with a healthy Wilson, DJ at weakside and Webster at SLB.

Damnit.

Bronco fandom dismissed his departure with nonchalance.

Sometimes you dont know what you have until its gone.

[Beantown Bronco]

And Gold's never had 90 unassisted tackles in a season.

Nope....but he's had 85, something DJ didn't even do in his "dominating" rookie season.

[BroncoBuff]

Will
DJ > Gold

Sam
DJ > Spragan

But ...

DJ-Sam + Gold-Will > DJ-Will + Spragan-Sam



Those were the choices they made. The signing of Gold, after DJ was drafted, was the big mistake that we're still paying for today.
We put our defense behind the 8-Ball in two ways:
1. By moving DJ away from Will, and
2. By failing to groom Terry Pierce to replace Al someday. When Al did falter, his backup for 2 straight years was Keith Burns.

So now - to satisfy our 'Gold-lust,' we're stuck with zero experience at Mike, and worn-out retreads at Sam (one of which broke down on Day 1 of camp). DJ's career hangs in the balance with his (so far lukewarm) change to Mike, and terry Pierce is outta the game. Choices have consequences, and the 'Gold-lust' consequences are rippling and rippling and rippling ...

[BlaK-Argentina]

Bronco fandom dismissed his departure with nonchalance.

Sometimes you dont know what you have until its gone.

Yeah well... a lot of people were excited to see DJ at MLB. I'm guessing DJ's performance so far leaves a lot of people wishing we had Wilson back.

Here's to DJ stepping up. :thumbsup:

[BroncoBuff]

Here's to DJ stepping up. :thumbsup:
Keep it positive ... :thumbs:

[Taco John]

Nope....but he's had 85, something DJ didn't even do in his "dominating" rookie season.


Yes he did. He had 87 that season. He was all over the field with 114 total tackles. Gold was long gone, talking junk about the Broncos in Tampa Bay at that time.

[Cito Pelon]

Those horrible AFCCG seasons! Ugh, how embarassing!

There was only one, and the AFCCG was embarrassing. But, it was a nice season overall. Winning the Div Title was something to be proud of.

[Beantown Bronco]

Yes he did. He had 87 that season. He was all over the field with 114 total tackles. Gold was long gone, talking junk about the Broncos in Tampa Bay at that time.

nfl.com has him at 81 solo and 33 assisted....not sure where you are getting yours from, but nfl.com are supposedly official.

http://www.nfl.com/players/d.j.williams/careerstats?id=WIL237478

[Popcorn Sutton]

nfl.com has him at 81 solo and 33 assisted....not sure where you are getting yours from, but nfl.com are supposedly official.

http://www.nfl.com/players/d.j.williams/careerstats?id=WIL237478

Not bad for a rookie...

[Rock Chalk]

Bronco fandom dismissed his departure with nonchalance.

Sometimes you dont know what you have until its gone.

Not this fan.

Saddest day since Elway retired IMO.

[Hotrod]

Bronco fandom dismissed his departure with nonchalance.

Sometimes you dont know what you have until its gone.

Ya because nobody thought Al was any good before he left ROFL!

[BroncoInferno]

Bronco fandom dismissed his departure with nonchalance.

Sometimes you dont know what you have until its gone.

Al was a great Bronco, but he had a poor 2006. His body is breaking down, so there is no reason to think his presence in his current physical state would be making much of a difference right now.

[Garcia Bronco]

If not for his neck...he would be here playing. It's really depressing when you get right down to it.

[Rock Chalk]

Al was a great Bronco, but he had a poor 2006. His body is breaking down, so there is no reason to think his presence in his current physical state would be making much of a difference right now.

A broken AL is ten times the MLB DJ will ever be.

[Hotrod]

Personally I'll wait just a bit longer before jumping ship.

[Cito Pelon]

Nope....but he's had 85, something DJ didn't even do in his "dominating" rookie season.

I wasn't comparing Gold to DJ. I was comparing Gold to one of the top OLB's in the league, one of Gold's contemporaries. Gold may have a great year, who knows? I wish him the best of luck.

[BroncoBuff]

nfl.com has him at 81 solo and 33 assisted....not sure where you are getting yours from, but nfl.com are supposedly official.

http://www.nfl.com/players/d.j.williams/careerstats?id=WIL237478
Taco says "114 total tackles"
You say "81 solo and 33 assisted."

Lets try arithmetic: 81 + (plus) 33 = (equals) ummm ... Uhh ... 114 total? ;D

[BroncoBuff]

Forget about Will and Sam, DJ, Ian and Spragan for now though .... let's just talk Mike LB.

We drafted Terry Pierce in the 2nd round, and Coyer tried to shove round peg Terry (a natual Mike) into Square-hole Sam. It didn't work. But Pierce did have skillz - big, reasonably fast and a sure tackler. Had cooler heads prevailed, DJ would be going into year #4 at Will - maybe a Pro-Bowler by now. Pierce would be a well-groomed Mike running the show on the fierld, and we couldda found somebody at Sam by now.

One thing's for sure ... leaving Keith Burns as Al's backup for the past two years was the big mistake.

[SoCalBronco]

Forget about Will and Sam, DJ, Ian and Spragan for now though .... let's just talk Mike LB.

We drafted Terry Pierce in the 2nd round, and Coyer tried to shove round peg Terry (a natual Mike) into Square-hole Sam. It didn't work. But Pierce did have skillz - big, reasonably fast and a sure tackler. Had cooler heads prevailed, DJ would be going into year #4 at Will - maybe a Pro-Bowler by now. Pierce would be a well-groomed Mike running the show on the fierld, and we couldda found somebody at Sam by now.

One thing's for sure ... leaving Keith Burns as Al's backup for the past two years was the big mistake.

I agree. Drafting Pierce and moving DJ away from Will were both huge mistakes. I have no doubt he would be in the pro bowl already.

Re: Pierce...for everyone whining about DJs instincts, Terry Pierce had great instincts at Kansas State (as did his successor Josh Buhl, a first team all american who had only a cup of coffee in the NFL, so much for that) ...where did that get him? Nowhere. He lacked lateral speed and did not possess good agility. I'm not a huge fan of the 40 as an indicator of speed but even that was bad, at about 4.7. Even at Mike, he would have been a problem here, especially in the Tampa 2. Do you think Pierce could get vertical 15-18 yds. fast? No. Pierce was an ideal 2 down MLB for a different system. Why we brought him in I don't know. We had a whole year left to negotiate with Al, we didnt need to gamble early. If you still can't get something done in the final year, you can always franchise Al for a single year and draft someone, but you don't play your hand prematurely and devote a big asset when it might be unnecessary. So now, we are holding a bag of crap...what do we do with this guy? We put him at Sam. He cannot cover a TE worth a crap. His size is good though and can take on blocks. Still, its stupid, he hated it and couldnt beat out Sykes or Spragan. Thanks alot for wasting a 2, Shanny.

And then we compound the problem by moving DJ, a perfect Will. Speed, agility, strength, outstanding in pursuit, a sure tackler from that spot, range. He's perfect there in that Coyer Under front, there isn't an uncovered lineman anywhere in sight, he can run and chase all day and in fact had the most TFL of any Bronco since 1991. People like to say, he made alot of tackles but I dont remember him making any plays, well if that isnt a stat that talks to playmaking I dont know what is. That's the run game equivalent of a sack. It took Gold a few years to crack the starting lineup, in 2000 as a rookie he was nothing more than a special teams ace, you think he could have done that as a rookie. No way. It made no sense to bring him back. People said, well wait a minute, Spragan is a weakness we are getting torn up by TEs...ok, then go get a Sam that can cover. What's the problem? Why not do this? And aren't we in the Nickel half the time anyway? What a load of crap. I'll tell you what....he isnt going back to Sam, no way in hell. I don't care if he doesnt master Mike, he is not going back to Sam in a million years. I'd rather have him on the bench than go through another year of that ****. We're not wasting another year doing that. I don't care if they whisper in his ear to just go back there for one more year then Ian will be 30 and you can go back to Will. No dice. Its three things Shanny: Mike, Will, Trade, you decide, Sam is not a choice. You ****ed this up in the beginning, so you deal with it, Shanny. Maybe if Shanny had kept his dick in his pants and not rushed out to sign his favorite son, this wouldnt have happened. He ****ed it up with his hard on for Ian, so he has to fix it. No more wasting years. No more Sam. I dont care what happens. You give him the chance to learn this Mike thing, he's working his ass off, the coaches (LB coach, Bates) in addition to Mr. Sundquist have said (in very recent articles..early august) he was doing great in the offseason, he hit a rough patch recently it would appear, you don't cut rope at the first sign of trouble, you keep working with him, he has worked very hard, overtime in the summer according to Bates, so keep working with him. You don't become a coward at the first hint of trouble and hang him out to dry. Work with him. If you feel it is not best for him at a point when you reasonably feel that there has been enough of a sample size, you move him to Will (I dont think this will happen, he will be fine, just give him some time). It's one or the other, no more Sam, under ANY circumstance. All of this can be traced back to management's error, you cannot hide behind the effects of your own mistake, you cant say "oh well if he goes back to will, where is Ian going to go?"....if they didnt **** this up in the beginning we wouldnt have the dilemma, so you cannot be bailed out by pointing to the effects of your own ****up. I dont care where he would go. He is a good cover backer and has some value, so whip something up. Figure it out.

[Vegas_Bronco]

I think we forget at times why we initially brought Gold back - at the time, as I'm sure you all still deeply fear it, even today - we were getting our azzes whooped and railed on by the Colts. There really was no answer for Stokley, Clark, Edge, Etc - at linebacker on the flare or middle of the field. Hell, we didn't even have a db that could cover their WR's regardless of any dime or nickel we threw their way. The Colts were the END, the block wall that disintegrated any Bronco defensive effort - scrubbed every hope of a Bronco return to the big game. We had NO answer to their kaleidoscopic passing game. Shanny and Ted were pulling their hair out and wilting before our eyes every time we met the Colts in the playoffs - it was death. For the most part, we all gladly accepted Gold back to the team because we knew the guy with excellent speed and could cover a TE, a RB, and at times the slot. Stopping the running game was Rhino's job and Gold was the excellent coverage back which he did satisfactorily!

Now we have Champ, Dre, Lynch - it's easy 'about-face' and reverse your position or opinions, the team has changed. It may not be the best position for either talent but you can't tell me for 1 minute that DJ and Gold can't succeed at what they have been asked to do - they have the skills and ability. Denver has stopped the run year after year but had their doors blown off in the passing game - just ask Shanny about Mr Rhodes and Mr Coyer.

Give them some time to learn the new system, grow in it, and then cast lording opinions on the group - my hell remember, remember - it took Al 2 solid years at MLB to prove he was going to be a star - Give DJ the same respect and quit treating him as if it another case of 'he's not Elway'.

[worm]

Re: Pierce...for everyone whining about DJs instincts, Terry Pierce had great instincts at Kansas State (as did his successor Josh Buhl, a first team all american who had only a cup of coffee in the NFL, so much for that) ...where did that get him? Nowhere. He lacked lateral speed and did not possess good agility. I'm not a huge fan of the 40 as an indicator of speed but even that was bad, at about 4.7. Even at Mike, he would have been a problem here, especially in the Tampa 2. Do you think Pierce could get vertical 15-18 yds. fast? No. Pierce was an ideal 2 down MLB for a different system. Why we brought him in I don't know. We had a whole year left to negotiate with Al, we didnt need to gamble early. If you still can't get something done in the final year, you can always franchise Al for a single year and draft someone, but you don't play your hand prematurely and devote a big asset when it might be unnecessary. So now, we are holding a bag of crap...what do we do with this guy? We put him at Sam. He cannot cover a TE worth a crap. His size is good though and can take on blocks. Still, its stupid, he hated it and couldnt beat out Sykes or Spragan. Thanks alot for wasting a 2, Shanny.



Lots to digest in your post Socal....but re: Pierce...I think you are off base.

Pierce had opportunities outside of Denver and what did he do with them? Where is he now? Playing as an ideal two down MLB? Maybe he just wasn't that good...in ANY scheme.

He was a perfectly valid draft pick at the time. For a number of reasons.

Plus, you rarely are looking at your #2 draft pick to come in and be a starter. He wasn't there to replaces Al...but back him up. IF he had worked out..Denver would be a lot better positioned for this year.

Laying all the blame at Shanny's feet seems unfair to me.

[SoCalBronco]

Lots to digest in your post Socal....but re: Pierce...I think you are off base.

Pierce had opportunities outside of Denver and what did he do with them? Where is he now? Playing as an ideal two down MLB? Maybe he just wasn't that good...in ANY scheme.

He was a perfectly valid draft pick at the time. For a number of reasons.

Plus, you rarely are looking at your #2 draft pick to come in and be a starter. He wasn't there to replaces Al...but back him up. IF he had worked out..Denver would be a lot better positioned for this year.

Laying all the blame at Shanny's feet seems unfair to me.

There are some things I agree with in the initial portion of your post, namely his other oppurtunities. From what I recall, the only other place that worked him out after we let him go with HOU and he didnt do much there. The fact that he cant even hold down a job in HOU reflects poorly on Shanny as well.

I disagree with a number of your points, though. First of all, in this case WE WERE looking for him to be Al's replacement. We were having difficult negotiations with his agent Norm Nixon that summer and things did not look good. You cannot say that we drafted him to back up Al, you never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever waste a 2 on a guy who you envision as a backup. If that were the case, the entire FO should be summarily fired. It would be beyond absurd if that was the plan, that cannot ever be the plan. Ever. Ever. Ever. Ever. He was there to replace Al. We got sick of the negotiation and made our move. Eventually, a year into the future, the negotiation worked out and now you are holding the bag because you declared yourself too early. That is beyond idiotic and it is 100 percent on Shanny. And why would you draft a MLB that isnt a system fit anyway? Pierce represented an old school MLB, not the smaller, sleeker, faster MLB that our system required. It was a horrible error...eclipsed only by slapping DJ in the face the summer after he was voted no. 3 in the DROY voting.

Make no mistake, this is Shanny's problem. You reap what you sow. He made his bed, let him ****ing sleep in it.

[Play2win]

Next thing I expect to hear is how DJ is already better at his natural position (will) than AL WILSON ever way at his (mike).

Or, I am sure I will at least hear how DJ is going to be a better WILL Linebacker than AL ever was a MIKE...

[SoCalBronco]

Next thing I expect to hear is how DJ is already better at his natural position (will) than AL WILSON ever way at his (mike).

Or, I am sure I will at least hear how DJ is going to be a better WILL Linebacker than AL ever was a MIKE...

I have never said that. He would have been a hell of a WLB by this point though. A hell of a WLB.

Nice try, though. I have always liked Al and always appreciated everything he did for us, even when he was hurt. I have always admired him.

You dont exactly have alot of credibility anyway after betraying CU in favor of the flavor of the month (U$C) when the scandal hit. It does not surprise me in the least that you would get all spooked when even the smallest thing goes wrong.

[Play2win]

My comments weren't directed at any one in particular, but just that it might be the next thing I expect to hear.

BTW go ahead and take the Low-Road if you want...

I just love my Denver Broncos and support everybody on the roster.

(now that SOB is lone gone)

[nickademus]

Which is why we should consider putting him at strong safety....he's listed at only 223....which (as pointed out) is small for a LB, but perfect for a safety. Lynch is listed at 220.

Gold is still only 28 years old, while Fergy is 32.....not sure who is faster, but my guess is that Gold could keep up with Fergy. Furthermore, for those that would be concerned with Gold being a pass coverage liability.....ummm, we DO have the best cover tandem with Bailey and Bly, so that should mitigate the concern. Gold and Lynch would be laying the wood in the backfield.

Our secondary could be Champ, Bly, Lynch and Gold. That would allow DJ to go back and play Will.

I absolutley love this idea and I have suggested it in the past but people just get all bent when I have brought it up. I think he could extend his career and become a hard hitting safety and you know all love thoes in Denver.

[SoCalBronco]

My comments weren't directed at any one in particular, but just that it might be the next thing I expect to hear.

BTW go ahead and take the Low-Road if you want...

I just love my Denver Broncos and support everybody on the roster.

(now that SOB is lone gone)

I am not taking the low road. You did that to your team (CU). I dont think that is right for you to do. But in any case, it is your choice.

And don't say it wasnt directed at anyone. You said "the next thing I expect to hear"....as if you had heard X,Y,Z (my posts) and following in sequence, you expected that. I wasnt one of the folks that badmouthed Al, said good riddance, you cant tackle anymore etc., I loved Al. It was completely unreasonable for you to say that. You think I intentionally wanted Al to be gone so DJ would get his spot. I was happy when he got the oppurtunity, but I wasnt one of the folks who said all sorts of things. I have always loved Big Al. All I ever wanted was for him to stay at Will. I was glad to see the team realize they made a mistake and give DJ a shot at Mike because it would be a playmaking position in the Bates scheme (like Will). I never said anything denigrating to Al by comparison. Sure, he had his struggles this past year with tackling and we all pointed that out at some point, but you are making a false accusation here with all this "the next thing I expect to hear" crap. That is not fair to say. As if I would denigrate Al just to praise my own boy. That is very unfair to suggest. I do not appreciate that at all.

[Taco John]

nfl.com has him at 81 solo and 33 assisted....not sure where you are getting yours from, but nfl.com are supposedly official.

http://www.nfl.com/players/d.j.williams/careerstats?id=WIL237478

I was using stats from ESPN.

[Play2win]

I think you are getting a little self consumed about things (plural). I have made less than 10 posts in I don't know how many months, and all I have to say is, after this, with good reason.

[Bigdawg26]

I dunno if I wont say that given the performance of DJ as a rookie in his natural WLB spot. He might have been JUST AS GOOD of a WLB as Al was as a MLB (not better), and that is sayin ALOT. Al had speed(who admitted to being faster than Gold and also said DJ was faster than he is), tackled like a truck, and the fire that you look for in a leader and MLB. He is or was a top 3 MLB in the league after Ray and Urlacher.

[BroncoInferno]

Gold is simply put a better WILL than DJ. Why? Because DJ simply can't get down the mental aspects of the game. He has barely improved in that regard since he stepped foot here. Even in supposed super awesome rookie season, while he put up good numbers, he made TONS of mental errors, blown assignments, overpursuit, etc. Gold is and always has been more consistent and reliable, and that's why they brought him back and why DJ has not been able to replace him in the nickle (this is the reason his numbers have suffered, not because he's playing SAM). Period.

That said, DJ has an opportunity this year at MLB. It is the top playmaking position in Bates' scheme; so no more excuses. He has his chance. And I'm not ready call him a failure at MLB because he has struggled in the equivalent of 3/4 of a game, in preseason no less. Give it a little more time, people. If they want to bring in Trotter for a little competition and insurance, why not? If DJ can't hold him off, then so be it. I personally think he can, my criticisms notwithstanding, I still have faith in his ability.

[NASurfer]

Denver had their worst line in years last year... and that's really saying something. I don't think it's much of a coincidence that the same year we line up Demetrian Veal and Michael Myers side by side, our LBs end up having their worst year... constantly struggling with linemen in their face.

I think we can win a Superbowl with Ian Gold... he's a quality player. It was a bit of a waste putting DJ over at SAM, but the starting 3 as a whole was a solid group IMO. We probably could have gone places even with an above average line.

I could only imagine what it would be like if Ian was actually terrible....

[Garcia Bronco]

I was using stats from ESPN.

ESPiN is incompetent from top to bottom.

[Garcia Bronco]

Gold is simply put a better WILL than DJ. Why? Because DJ simply can't get down the mental aspects of the game. He has barely improved in that regard since he stepped foot here. Even in supposed super awesome rookie season, while he put up good numbers, he made TONS of mental errors, blown assignments, overpursuit, etc. Gold is and always has been more consistent and reliable, and that's why they brought him back and why DJ has not been able to replace him in the nickle (this is the reason his numbers have suffered, not because he's playing SAM). Period.

That said, DJ has an opportunity this year at MLB. It is the top playmaking position in Bates' scheme; so no more excuses. He has his chance. And I'm not ready call him a failure at MLB because he has struggled in the equivalent of 3/4 of a game, in preseason no less. Give it a little more time, people. If they want to bring in Trotter for a little competition and insurance, why not? If DJ can't hold him off, then so be it. I personally think he can, my criticisms notwithstanding, I still have faith in his ability.


I agree.

[TheReverend]

Huh? Since when does Al Wilson take up two gaps?

I love Wilson, but I've never heard a theory that a WLB's success is based on anything the Middle Linebacker is doing. Wouldn't the players in front of him have more of an impact on his success than a middle linebacker?

Do you even know what you're talking about?

Straight face when you wrote that bull****? Call Lance Briggs and ask him how his new paycheck is doing and how much Brian Urlacher had to do with that.

[TheReverend]

I'm going to scream

DJ never had never left the Will position. It was the same goddamn thing in that Sam spot the last two years, just on the other side of the field.

To put it simply: WE DIDNT HAVE A ****ING WILL OR SAM BACKER WE HAD A ROLB AND A L-OLB THE LAST TWO YEARS.

This year with Jim Bates will be the first time we actually use a Sam as a Sam.

DJs production suffered SIMPLY because he was off the field in the nickel and missed tackles left and right.

[Bigdawg26]

I'm going to put it like this.
DJ Williams is a better WLB than Gold and a better linebacker based on his performance at WLB in his rookie year as opposed to Ian Gold's last two years. Not taking nothing from Ian Gold he is a very good WLB, but DJ Williams is quicker, better tackler, and faster (Al Wilson said that last year who was the fastest and Ian is not as fast as he was after the knee injury). Ian is better in coverage and smarter than DJ, but I still think DJ is better and had to bite the bullet and play SLB to get the best 3 OLBs on the field when Ian Gold was signed.

[Bigdawg26]

But I hope DJ really comes into his own at MLB I really want him to be our MLB.

[Beantown Bronco]

Not taking nothing from Ian Gold he is a very good WLB, but DJ Williams is quicker, better tackler, and faster

If the coaches believed that were true, then we would've certainly seen DJ on the field on third downs instead of Gold....that ends the debate in my mind.

[Garcia Bronco]

But I hope DJ really comes into his own at MLB I really want him to be our MLB.

Seriously though...at the end of the day..I hope so too

[TheReverend]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[-Slap-]

I think it mainly comes down to people not really understanding quality linebacker play when they see it. It's fairly apparent when a DB gets beaten in the open or when a lineman gets no pass rush down after down, but linebackers, by the very nature of the position, are going to make their share of plays. All defenses are designed to allow their linebackers to make the lion's share of the tackles. Anyone who disputes this notion should just give up watching football and look for a new hobby.

Ian Gold is really only noticeable on the field because he's a graduate of the Hollywood Henderson school of pile jumping. Anytime he's anywhere in the vicinity of a routine tackle, Ian jumps up and beats his chest like he just stopped LT on fourth and goal singlehandedly. Sadly, a lot of people eat that **** up.

Bottom line is the coaching staff expressed their unhappiness with his play last year and the only reason he's still on the team this year is because Al Wilson broke his goddamn neck.

[TheReverend]

I think it mainly comes down to people not really understanding quality linebacker play when they see it. It's fairly apparent when a DB gets beaten in the open or when a lineman gets no pass rush down after down, but linebackers, by the very nature of the position, are going to make their share of plays. All defenses are designed to allow their linebackers to make the lion's share of the tackles. Anyone who disputes this notion should just give up watching football and look for a new hobby.

Ian Gold is really only noticeable on the field because he's a graduate of the Hollywood Henderson school of pile jumping. Anytime he's anywhere in the vicinity of a routine tackle, Ian jumps up and beats his chest like he just stopped LT on fourth and goal singlehandedly. Sadly, a lot of people eat that **** up.

Bottom line is the coaching staff expressed their unhappiness with his play last year and the only reason he's still on the team this year is because Al Wilson broke his goddamn neck.


This will go a long way for any insanity plea you may need to make in the future.

[-Slap-]

I think we forget at times why we initially brought Gold back - at the time, as I'm sure you all still deeply fear it, even today - we were getting our azzes whooped and railed on by the Colts. There really was no answer for Stokley, Clark, Edge, Etc - at linebacker on the flare or middle of the field. Hell, we didn't even have a db that could cover their WR's regardless of any dime or nickel we threw their way. The Colts were the END, the block wall that disintegrated any Bronco defensive effort - scrubbed every hope of a Bronco return to the big game. We had NO answer to their kaleidoscopic passing game. Shanny and Ted were pulling their hair out and wilting before our eyes every time we met the Colts in the playoffs - it was death. For the most part, we all gladly accepted Gold back to the team because we knew the guy with excellent speed and could cover a TE, a RB, and at times the slot. Stopping the running game was Rhino's job and Gold was the excellent coverage back which he did satisfactorily!


Ian was the worst player on the field against Indy last year. He made Dallas Clark look like Dave Caspar.

[Atwater His Ass]

I just want to win football games.

[-Slap-]

This will go a long way for any insanity plea you may need to make in the future.

Fix the mosquito netting in here, Taco.

[TheReverend]

Fix the mosquito netting in here, Taco.

Wow... you're so clever.

[Rock Chalk]

Fix the mosquito netting in here, Taco.

He did when you got banned. Unfortunately someone let you back ;D

[Beantown Bronco]

Ian Gold is really only noticeable on the field because he's a graduate of the Hollywood Henderson school of pile jumping. Anytime he's anywhere in the vicinity of a routine tackle, Ian jumps up and beats his chest like he just stopped LT on fourth and goal singlehandedly. Sadly, a lot of people eat that **** up.

DJ only jumps up and beats his chest after making a game-changing play.....that's why nobody here has ever seen him do it.

[Cito Pelon]

I think we forget at times why we initially brought Gold back - at the time, as I'm sure you all still deeply fear it, even today - we were getting our azzes whooped and railed on by the Colts. There really was no answer for Stokley, Clark, Edge, Etc - at linebacker on the flare or middle of the field. Hell, we didn't even have a db that could cover their WR's regardless of any dime or nickel we threw their way. The Colts were the END, the block wall that disintegrated any Bronco defensive effort - scrubbed every hope of a Bronco return to the big game. We had NO answer to their kaleidoscopic passing game. Shanny and Ted were pulling their hair out and wilting before our eyes every time we met the Colts in the playoffs - it was death. For the most part, we all gladly accepted Gold back to the team because we knew the guy with excellent speed and could cover a TE, a RB, and at times the slot. Stopping the running game was Rhino's job and Gold was the excellent coverage back which he did satisfactorily!

Now we have Champ, Dre, Lynch - it's easy 'about-face' and reverse your position or opinions, the team has changed. It may not be the best position for either talent but you can't tell me for 1 minute that DJ and Gold can't succeed at what they have been asked to do - they have the skills and ability. Denver has stopped the run year after year but had their doors blown off in the passing game - just ask Shanny about Mr Rhodes and Mr Coyer.

Give them some time to learn the new system, grow in it, and then cast lording opinions on the group - my hell remember, remember - it took Al 2 solid years at MLB to prove he was going to be a star - Give DJ the same respect and quit treating him as if it another case of 'he's not Elway'.

I don't know how this myth got started. I guess people confuse his punt coverage skills with pass coverage skills.

[Vegas_Bronco]

Ian was the worst player on the field against Indy last year. He made Dallas Clark look like Dave Caspar.

Slap --- watch the game again and tell me who was covering Reggie Wayne, better yet, who wasn't covering him - therein you'll find the 'worst player on the field against Indy' last year.

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d800f3612

Receiving REC YDS TD LG
R. Wayne 10 138 3 28
D. Clark 6 68 0 17
D. Rhodes 3 43 0 27
M. Harrison 5 38 0 12
J. Addai 5 37 0 17
B. Utecht 2 12 0 7
B. Fletcher 1 9 0 9

When in the red zone it was R Wayne who killed us (out of respect for the cover man), it was Reggie who beat us that day - not Ian Gold! Great game but it was the happenings inside the red zone that killed us that day. Is this really such an emotional topic for you?! If so, GL bro! I like watching the game even though the end was horrid simply to see Mike Bell run like a demon - never have I seen such desire out of the guy - he did really well that day!

Oh and by the way:

Defense T-A SCK INT FF
Da. Williams 7-0 0.0 0 0
I. Gold 7-2 0.0 0 0
DJ. Williams 5-0 0.0 0 0
S. Brandon 4-1 0.0 0 0
A. Wilson 4-2 0.0 0 0
C. Bailey 3-3 0.0 0 0
J. Lynch 3-3 0.0 0 0
M. Myers 3-1 0.0 0 0
N. Ferguson 2-2 0.0 0 0
D. Veal 2-0 0.0 0 0
P. Chukwurah 1-0 0.0 0 0
E. Dumervil 1-0 0.0 0 0
E. Ekuban 1-0 0.0 0 0
K. Lang 1-1 0.0 0 0
K. Burns 0-0 0.0 0 0
C. Cox 0-0 0.0 0 0
J. Engelberger 0-1 0.0 0 0
M. Leach 0-0 0.0 0 0
K. Paymah 0-0 0.0 0 0
J. Plummer 0-0 0.0 0 0
C. Sapp 0-0 0.0 0

[epicSocialism4tw]

DJ only jumps up and beats his chest after making a game-changing play.....that's why nobody here has ever seen him do it.

Zing.