Sapp Not Sure Gerard Warren Is A Good Fit For Raiders

[Greybeard]

Maybe I should have posted this in the "Warren Goes to the Raiders" thread,
but it seems an interesting topic on its own . . .

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(AP) ALAMEDA, Calif. Gerard Warren was dealt from Denver because he didn't fit into the Broncos' new defensive system. Warren Sapp doesn't see how the former No. 3 overall pick fits onto the Oakland Raiders' roster.

"I wouldn't want to go to a team three weeks after their training camp and try to make their team, with my talent," Sapp said. "I wouldn't want to do that."

Warren was acquired Monday for a conditional fifth-round pick in the first deal between the AFC West rivals since 1993. The Broncos only get the pick if Warren makes the Raiders' roster.

Sapp said he didn't see the need to add any defensive linemen, saying he was happy with the group that opened camp with the team and that he had a hard time seeing Warren make the team.

"My eight's been here since I first walked in the door and I said, 'There's my eight.' That's what I've looked at and said, 'There's my eight, I can win with those eight,"' he said. "And he never came into that picture until I walked into the job this morning. I don't see him cracking that eight. I don't make personnel decisions around here, but I don't see him cracking my eight."

The last trade between the Raiders and Broncos came when Denver dealt running back Gaston Green for a third round pick that turned out to be defensive back Rondell Jones.

Denver coach Mike Shanahan, who had been fired by Raiders owner Al Davis in 1989, became the Broncos coach in 1995 and the teams have not made a trade since. Denver hired former Raiders senior personnel executive Michael Lombardi in July as a personnel assistant, two months after he was fired by Oakland.

Shanahan acknowledged how rare a deal between the two rivals was, but said he had no fear trading a player he could face twice a year.

"No, you've got to make a decision based on what you think is best for your organization," Shanahan said.

Just one year ago, Warren was deemed the Broncos' best defensive linemen as evidenced by the six-year, $36 million contract he signed before injuries to both big toes led to an unproductive 2006 season.

This year, he didn't fit in the system put in place by the new defensive boss Jim Bates, which requires large interior linemen who hold the point of attack rather than penetrate. The defense played poorly in the first two exhibition games and lost defensive end Ebenezer Ekuban to a season-ending Achilles' injury.

"We're not catching on as fast as we'd like," Bates said. "There's a lot of promising things we see on the tape. There's a lot of good things happening out on the practice field. But in the games we have not played well."

Sapp and Terdell Sands are Oakland's starters at tackle, with Tyler Brayton and Anttaj Hawthorne as the backups. Tommy Kelly has played both tackle and end in camp but could move to end fulltime because of the trade. The Raiders struggled with their second defensive unit in Saturday's exhibition game against San Francisco and wanted more depth.

"It's a rough business down there," Pro Bowl defensive end Derrick Burgess said. "Anybody can down any time. You need a guy behind the guy who's starting, that will just step in there and do what they're supposed to do."

Raiders coach Lane Kiffin called it a "low-risk" move that would make the team better if Warren is good enough to make the roster or cost nothing if he wasn't.

"It was not out of a need that we were disappointed with anybody that was playing for us or anything," Kiffin said. "This was the ability to add somebody that could bring competition to us if he's in the right mind-set."

Warren (6-foot-4, 325 pounds) is a seventh-year pro who spent the past two seasons in Denver after he was acquired in a trade with Cleveland in 2005. The Browns made him the third overall pick in the 2001 draft out of Florida.

Warren had 51 tackles and 2 1/2 sacks last season and never regained his strength and stamina after a toe injury in training camp hobbled him all year.

The Broncos left him behind when they opened the exhibition season at San Francisco and again when they spent a week in Dallas practicing with the Cowboys before their preseason game Saturday night.

"Obviously I've been here for training camp so I don't know how training camp has gone or any of that," said Raiders offensive lineman Cooper Carlisle, who played with Warren the past two seasons in Denver. "I know when I was there he still had plenty of gas left."

Washington and Indianapolis were interested in Warren but might have been hoping for his release so they could negotiate their own deal and not compensate the Broncos.

Warren, who cemented his nickname "Big Money" with his contract extension last summer, actually earned about $6.5 million of that $36 million deal. He received $2 million from the Broncos this year in roster and workout bonuses. His salary for the upcoming season is a little less than $600,000.

http://cbs4denver.com/sports/local_story_232205455.html (http://www.cbs4denver.com/)

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[kmartin575]

Warren Sapp is an idiot. That fat piece of crap should just keep his mouth shut. He probably knows Lane Kiffin is going to cut his ass after this year.

[DeuceOfClub]

I thought Sapp retired some years ago...

[BroncoBuff]

Warren Sapp is human garbage, and he oughtta keep his garbage can mouth shut

[Paladin]

Well, he did retire but he shows up on some Sundays and gets paid.......

[Orange_Beard]

Sapp is trying to get "favors" from the new inmate.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

I've decided I love Warren Sapp. I'm sorry for ever trashing him.

[Hogan11]

Warren Sapp is human garbage, and he oughtta keep his garbage can mouth shut

Oh noooooo, he's just outspoken....you know, like Shannon Sharpe before he went on to become a TV commentator. ::)

[BroncoBuff]

Nalen owns Sapp anyway. Nails has his way with all the big fatties ....

[ZONA]

I will laugh my butt off if Warren out plays Sapp and Sapp is the one who is backing up the DL............hahaha. Sapp was great in his day, which is more then I can say for Warren, but Sapp is way way past his prime years and it's a compliment to call him an average player.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Sapp had a great season last year. Warren is dog**** in comparison.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Nalen owns Sapp anyway. Nails has his way with all the big fatties ....

Sapp had two sacks against the Broncos last year.

[Killericon]

I've always like Sapp, and while I agree with what he says, I don't see the upside of saying this publicly.

[Watchthemiddle]

The funniest thing about this whole trade is that we got over on the Raiders. The Raiders could have gotten Warren off of waivers for no future draft pick. Who gets the first on the players on the wire? The first team in the draft...thus the Raiders. All they had to do was wait 48 hours and they could have had him.

HA HA HA HA HA

[theAPAOps5]

The way Shefter reported it is that we only get the 5th if Warren makes the team. So if they cut him then we still get nothing. Its like the Plummer deal all over again.

[CBF1]

Another great move by the guy called "Mastermind" Bowlen should start billing Shanny for all of his big money F-ups.

[Sarcastro]

I will laugh my butt off if Warren out plays Sapp and Sapp is the one who is backing up the DL............hahaha. Sapp was great in his day, which is more then I can say for Warren, but Sapp is way way past his prime years and it's a compliment to call him an average player.

What is your definition of average? You do realize that Sapp led all DTs last season with 10 sacks right?

[Ugly Duck]

That fat piece of crap

Sapp ain't fat no mo. He weiged 334 last season when he was the DT with the most sacks in the NFL (10). Now he's down to 282 & is much quicker.

[Sarcastro]

Sapp ain't fat no mo. He weiged 334 last season when he was the DT with the most sacks in the NFL (10). Now he's down to 282 & is much quicker.

282 actually seems a bit on the light side to me.

[Ugly Duck]

282 actually seems a bit on the light side to me.

Thats wut he was when he stripped off the fat.... 50 lbs of fat. Now he's bulking up a bit in the weight room instead of at the drive-thru.

[Kaylore]

I could see the Raiders doing this just to cut him and sign him after he's cut to screw us. This would make sure we didn't get anything from anyone for him and they'd still get the player.

[DomCasual]

I didn't realize Warren Sapp was coaching in Oakland. When he starts calling them "my eight," and saying things like, "I can win with this eight," it sure makes it sound like he's the coach.

What a douchbag.

[footstepsfrom#27]

I didn't realize Warren Sapp was coaching in Oakland. When he starts calling them "my eight," and saying things like, "I can win with this eight," it sure makes it sound like he's the coach.

What a douchbag.
"Coach Sapp" is just as legit as the other puppet Crazy Al installed. ;D

[Greybeard]

Thats wut he was when he stripped off the fat.... 50 lbs of fat. Now he's bulking up a bit in the weight room instead of at the drive-thru.
Sure sounds as if you're making a lot of stuff up.

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[Killericon]

I could see the Raiders doing this just to cut him and sign him after he's cut to screw us. This would make sure we didn't get anything from anyone for him and they'd still get the player.

Isn't the condition that he makes the roster? I'm fairly sure that scenario would fulfill that.

[chrisp]

Another great move by the guy called "Mastermind" Bowlen should start billing Shanny for all of his big money F-ups.

The article also says that Warren only earned 6.5 mil of his 'big money' 32 mil contract.

Just another long-term backloaded deal for a so-so player that ends up advertising a bigger salary for the guy than he actually received.

He's made good money the last couple of years but the key thing was that he did NOT get the huge 10mil plus signing bonus that would have really made it a big money contract.

People say this all the time on the mane but somehow it never sinks in: when discussing contracts always look at the signing bonus, the rest is just la-la land: if they don't play up to it they don't get it, if they do they probably sign a new deal anyway.

There's a cap hit this year but I expect that's already accounted for...

[clint7]

I thought Sapp retired some years ago...

Ha! LOL

[Crushaholic]

Hilarious! Shanahan strikes again! Hilarious!

Warren is now the Raiders headache...!Booya!

[Raider Bill]

The funniest thing about this whole trade is that we got over on the Raiders. The Raiders could have gotten Warren off of waivers for no future draft pick. Who gets the first on the players on the wire? The first team in the draft...thus the Raiders. All they had to do was wait 48 hours and they could have had him.

HA HA HA HA HA



Wrong. Vets like Warren are not subject to Waivers until October 18th

[bronco militia]

Wrong. Vets like Warren are not subject to Waivers


huh?

[Orange_Beard]

Funny, We have a average D-line and he could not make the Broncos. Now he goes to a team with a better line and can't make it either. Go figure.

[Raider Bill]

huh?

from the NFL CBA

Section 1. Release:
(a) Whenever a player who has finished the season in which his fourth year of credited service has been
earned under the Bert Bell/Pete Rozelle Plan is placed on waivers between February 1 and the trading deadline,
his contract will be considered terminated and the player will be completely free at any time thereafter to
negotiate and sign a Player Contract with any Club, and any Club shall be completely free to negotiate and sign
a Player Contract with such player,

[bronco militia]

from the NFL CBA

Section 1. Release:
(a) Whenever a player who has finished the season in which his fourth year of credited service has been
earned under the Bert Bell/Pete Rozelle Plan is placed on waivers between February 1 and the trading deadline,
his contract will be considered terminated and the player will be completely free at any time thereafter to
negotiate and sign a Player Contract with any Club, and any Club shall be completely free to negotiate and sign
a Player Contract with such player,


thanks....there must have been another team that was interested.

[Raider Bill]

By trading for him, if he even makes our team, we'll get a healthy, motivated Warren, locked in at 600 grand. You guys already munched his signing bonus.

If he doesn't make the team, we get our pick back.

[bronco militia]

other than your GM having a 'former browns' boner for Warren, I can't figure out why the Raiders made the trade

[Raider Bill]

We're thin at DT and have been for awhile. After Sapp and Sands and Aantaj Hawthorne, we don't have a whole lot. Tommy Kelly is more of a big DE. We have Brayton playing inside now, I have a feeling he's the odd man out.

We had a fortuitious run last season where none of the DT's got injured, but we were always a DT injury away from being totally screwed.

[Drek]

I could see the Raiders doing this just to cut him and sign him after he's cut to screw us. This would make sure we didn't get anything from anyone for him and they'd still get the player.

If he's on their roster we get a pick. Contract shenanigans like that don't make it through the various legal departments that peruse every document that leaves any NFL franchise, short of horrible mismanagement (which the Broncos aren't).


By trading for him, if he even makes our team, we'll get a healthy, motivated Warren, locked in at 600 grand. You guys already munched his signing bonus.

If he doesn't make the team, we get our pick back.

Actually, Warren waived the vast majority of his remaining bonus (it was an option bonus for $3M), in return it was converted into '08 base salary. So there wasn't much signing bonus to munch and he's on the books for >$4M for '08-'10. None of it is guaranteed so I'm sure he'll be cut after this year even if he makes the roster though.

And I wouldn't bet on him being healthy. Good enough to pass a physical? Sure, but he's never taken very good care of himself and turf toe is one of those things that can recur and linger. He was pretty much useless last year with it.

We're thin at DT and have been for awhile. After Sapp and Sands and Aantaj Hawthorne, we don't have a whole lot. Tommy Kelly is more of a big DE. We have Brayton playing inside now, I have a feeling he's the odd man out.

We had a fortuitious run last season where none of the DT's got injured, but we were always a DT injury away from being totally screwed.

Well you just named three DTs who I'd take over Warren any day, especially Sands. Now Warren joins a team half way through the preseason, after not playing a down in practice or game in half a month.

Going by Kiffin's comments I wouldn't bet on Brayton being the odd man out. Warren has never been quick to pick up a new system, has groused regularly when put into roles he didn't find suitable to him, and is generally rather lazy. Maybe that'll all change in the two weeks before final cut downs, but I wouldn't bet on it.

The only reason we got a productive season out of Warren in '05 was because Coyer pandered to his prima donna ass and ran the front four to best suit him. It made the rest of the guys look like chumps while Warren did ok, not great. Kiffin can't afford to kowtow to a journeyman like Warren and quite frankly, the raiders defense doesn't need to. He'll show up, find that he's fighting to just be a 2nd or 3rd string backup, and then start his sulk routine. Wouldn't surprise me if he doesn't survive first cuts.

[Raider Bill]

He may very well not make the team. Then this trade, pick, et al, becomes moot.


"We feel it's extremely low risk for us," Raiders coach Lane Kiffin said. "We're going to give the guy a shot and see if he can come in and make the team."

Once Warren passes a physical today, he'll begin competing with backups Anttaj Hawthorne and Tyler Brayton.

If Warren squeezes someone out, I doubt they'll give up on Hawthorne so quickly. Ty Brayton is about as useless as tits on a bull.

He's a high motor guy that can't play a lick. In fact he was one of the 2 DE's, in the entire league, that started more than 3 games without registering a sack.

Kevin Huntley outplayed him so badly at RDE that Brayton got kicked inside to DT where he still sucks.

[Drek]

He may very well not make the team. Then this trade, pick, et al, becomes moot.
Which is exactly what raider fans should be hoping for. The best case scenario for the Broncos (and worst case for the Raiders) is that Warren shows enough to beat out Brayton, makes it on the roster, and parks his fat ass on the bench.

It'd take a complete deviation from the norm for Warren to respond positively to such a situation. He doesn't play for a paycheck, he's already gotten more than his fair share and lives up to the name Big Money, he plays for himself. If he isn't given a role he finds suitable he dogs out.

The worst thing the Raiders could do is keep him. Partly because they then owe the Broncos a pick, but also partly because he'll be a big locker room negative, something that unit doesn't need with Warren Sapp already hanging around.

[Raider Bill]

Denver painted themselves into a corner with Warren.

We either realize the upside, or get our pick back.

[footstepsfrom#27]

He's gone...let's move on.

[Drek]

Denver painted themselves into a corner with Warren.

We either realize the upside, or get our pick back.

Or get a 4th DT who bitches a lot, doesn't produce, and costs you a 5th round pick.

[Jason in LA]

Sapp is funny. I was thinking that he was going to say that Warren doesn't fit the system because his style is different from what they do, like with the Broncos. But it's like he's saying that Warren doesn't fit the system just because he's the new guy. That makes no sense. The new guy may be better than all the other DTs on the roster, which includes Sapp. Sapp is silly if he thinks Warren isn't going to make the team. Warren will probably end up starting.

[bronco militia]

Or get a 4th DT who b****es a lot, doesn't produce, and costs you a 5th round pick.


the Raiders can cut and resign him.....

[BroncoBuff]

Once Warren passes a physical today, he'll begin competing with backups Anttaj Hawthorne and Tyler Brayton.

I hope we get the pick, but not at the expense of Tyler Brayton, a CU 1st rounder. GO BUFFS!

[Greybeard]

I hope we get the pick, but not at the expense of Tyler Brayton, a CU 1st rounder. GO BUFFS!

So Warren makes the team and Brayton gets cut. We pick up Brayton, and by
the time they find Warren out, Brayton is in our rotation. :thumbsup:

And we have their fifth . . . ;D

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[bronco militia]

unfortunatly Brayton's a bust...

He'll be in Denver in no time

[Greybeard]

unfortunatly Brayton's a bust...

He'll be in Denver in no time
He'll have a better chance of ending up here if they ship him through Cleveland . . .

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[BroncoBuff]

I could see the Raiders doing this just to cut him and sign him after he's cut to screw us. This would make sure we didn't get anything from anyone for him and they'd still get the player.
Khan my theory here is that we dealt with Oakland only before cutting Warren ... and the Fade wouldda got him anyway then as the worst record. I can't think of any other reason why Shanny wouldda dealt with Al. If he couldda got a 6th or 7th from an NFC team, or any team, imo he would've taken it.

[BroncoBuff]

the Raiders can cut and resign him.....
There's no way this is possible ... I'll bet there are safeguards stopping that. A similar case was the Cowboys returning Charlie Adams after he "failed" a physical ... I don't think they couldda signed him again without him clearing all 31 teams' waivers. Same with Warren I'll bet.

[bronco militia]

There's no way this is possible ... I'll bet there are safeguards stopping that. A similar case was the Cowboys returning Charlie Adams after he "failed" a physical ... I don't think they couldda signed him again without him clearing all 31 teams' waivers. Same with Warren I'll bet.


see post #32 from Raider Bill

[BroncoBuff]

see post #32 from Raider Bill
Yes, another team must have wanted him then ...

But that rule ALSO MEANS that since Warren did not "finish the previous season" with the Raiders, he would probably have to clear league waivers before the Raiders could sign him a second time. I knew there was some kind of safeguard.

[bronco militia]

Yes, another team must have wanted him then ...

But that rule ALSO MEANS that since Warren did not "finish the previous season" with the Raiders, he would probably have to clear league waivers before the Raiders could sign him a second time. I knew there was some kind of safeguard.


I don't think it matters...the way I read it ,you get through your 4th year in the league and you no longer have to clear waivers...

[B-Love]

Have you ever noticed that really ****ty teams often have modestly good defensive rankings?

This has been going on consistently since the merger, as teams that are awful, post decent Defensive numbers, due to the way the games against that ****ty team get played.

The Raiders were so bad, that teams would scale down their playbooks, and greatly halt the pace of the game to a much more conservative pace. The 2nd half of many Raider games, saw the opposition often just pound the ball between the guards to rag the 2nd half clock.

The Raiders 2006 Offense was one of the 20 worst since I have been watching football, and the opposition would leave 25% of their Offensive playbook in their closet and not even expose it.

Warren Sapp is an Average Defensive Tackle in this league these days and is a verbal schmuck.

Warren Sapp saw more 1st down Run, 2nd down Run, 3rd down Pass sequences last year, than any DT that I can remember. And that's because the Raiders were so awful.

[BroncoBuff]

I don't think it matters...the way I read it ,you get through your 4th year in the league and you no longer have to clear waivers...
Sorry, you're right. Al could potentially screw us then.

[bronco militia]

Sorry, you're right. Al could potentially screw us then.


I don't mind....it's better than just releasing him.

don't Forget that the Broncos were prepared to release Warren back in March.

[Raider Bill]

Warren Sapp is an Average Defensive Tackle in this league these days and is a verbal schmuck

Which one of those Donk DT's had 10 sacks again?

[Drek]

the Raiders can cut and resign him.....

And what? Get him back under contract some time in October when he's probably going to have ballooned to 350 after being out of football for three months, with no knowledge of their system? I'm sure he'll be productive.

If he's on their opening day roster, we get comped. If not he's a free agent who'll go elsewhere. If Oakland has interest it isn't even worth them even trying that because he'd then go looking for a multi-year deal with guaranteed money. As it is now they get him for $660K and can drop his ass at no charge if he actually shows something worth keeping and doesn't restructure real friendly next year.

Oakland did this move because like Kiffin said, there's nothing to lose. Denver did this deal because they had nothing to lose as well. If either side gets any production out of this deal they'd walk away happy.

[Greybeard]

Which one of those Donk DT's had 10 sacks again?
Why? Is Sapp's level of play predicated on what DTs the Broncos have? hmmm...

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[Los Broncos]

I don't think Sapp is a good fit

[Raider Bill]

Why? Is Sapp's level of play predicated on what DTs the Broncos have? hmmm...

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Sapp led the league in sacks by a DT. If he's average, the donkey DT's were Div 1AA

[Raiders Rock]

Sapp led the league in sacks by a DT. If he's average, the donkey DT's were Div 1AA

Well I guess that pretty much ends this thread :notworthy

Anyhoo to the rest of you knuckle draggin Donk fans.... I'm Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack:welcome:

[400HZ]

Have you ever noticed that really ****ty teams often have modestly good defensive rankings?

This has been going on consistently since the merger, as teams that are awful, post decent Defensive numbers, due to the way the games against that ****ty team get played.

The Raiders were so bad, that teams would scale down their playbooks, and greatly halt the pace of the game to a much more conservative pace. The 2nd half of many Raider games, saw the opposition often just pound the ball between the guards to rag the 2nd half clock.

The Raiders 2006 Offense was one of the 20 worst since I have been watching football, and the opposition would leave 25% of their Offensive playbook in their closet and not even expose it.

Warren Sapp is an Average Defensive Tackle in this league these days and is a verbal schmuck.

Warren Sapp saw more 1st down Run, 2nd down Run, 3rd down Pass sequences last year, than any DT that I can remember. And that's because the Raiders were so awful.

That's a really good point, and I agree entirely except for the Sapp comment. He's been playing pretty damn good lately.

[Raiders Rock]

Have you ever noticed that really ****ty teams often have modestly good defensive rankings?

This has been going on consistently since the merger, as teams that are awful, post decent Defensive numbers, due to the way the games against that ****ty team get played.

The Raiders were so bad, that teams would scale down their playbooks, and greatly halt the pace of the game to a much more conservative pace. The 2nd half of many Raider games, saw the opposition often just pound the ball between the guards to rag the 2nd half clock.

The Raiders 2006 Offense was one of the 20 worst since I have been watching football, and the opposition would leave 25% of their Offensive playbook in their closet and not even expose it.

Warren Sapp is an Average Defensive Tackle in this league these days and is a verbal schmuck.

Warren Sapp saw more 1st down Run, 2nd down Run, 3rd down Pass sequences last year, than any DT that I can remember. And that's because the Raiders were so awful.


Whatever it takes to make you feel better about the Raiders D I want you to believe.

[Greybeard]

Sapp led the league in sacks by a DT. If he's average, the donkey DT's were Div 1AA
Well, we already knew that about the Broncos DTs, at least their pass rush. :pfbbt:

That's why we made moves to upgrade. Hopefully, we did.

Regarding Sapp, he's getting a bit long o' tooth, isn't he? I imagine you hope he
has something left in the tank.

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[Raider Bill]

Well, we already knew that about the Broncos DTs, at least their pass rush. :pfbbt:

That's why we made moves to upgrade. Hopefully, we did.

Regarding Sapp, he's getting a bit long o' tooth, isn't he? I imagine you hope he
has something left in the tank.

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So much for the theory that Warren Sapp had created locker room discord because of his reaction to the acquisition of defensive tackle Gerard Warren.

On Monday, Sapp said candidly that he wasn't sure if Warren could make his "top eight." He considers his defensive line mates a team within a team, and was sticking up for his guys.

Warren became part of that team Tuesday, and the two linemen were seen walking off the field together and laughing following practice.

"He just said, `Go to work, baby, you're in Oakland now,' " Warren said. "Go and do what we know how to do which is play ball."

Warren, sent packing from Denver after being told he didn't fit into the defensive scheme of new coordinator Jim Bates, was glad to be back with an attacking defense. The Broncos wanted him to play a two-gap style in which he basically ties up offensive linemen for others to make plays, while the Raiders want him to be aggressive and make plays himself.

[Bronx33]

Sapp on the backside of his career really shouldn't be talking if you ask me but the dude always did have a big mouth.

[Ugly Duck]

I can't figure out why the Raiders made the trade

Get out your calculator - I'll help you do the math:

• Raiders, if he makes the roster

Year Salary

2007 $595,000

• Broncos Year Salary-cap hit

2007 $742,000

2008 $2.23 million

So Al Davis only has to maybe shell out half a mil for one year & maybe get Warren's services, whereas Ratface has to shell out $3 mil over two years and gets squat. Looks like RatBoy is eating turds on this deal. Get it? Big Al risks very, very little.... but Ratface takes a two-year salary cap hit no matter what. Do the math....

[SoCalBronco]

Get out your calculator - I'll help you do the math:

• Raiders, if he makes the roster

Year Salary

2007 $595,000

• Broncos Year Salary-cap hit

2007 $742,000

2008 $2.23 million

So Al Davis only has to maybe shell out half a mil for one year & maybe get Warren's services, whereas Ratface has to shell out $3 mil over two years and gets squat. Looks like RatBoy is eating turds on this deal. Get it? Big Al risks very, very little.... but Ratface takes a two-year salary cap hit no matter what. Do the math....

3 million over 2 years is literally peanuts. The cap is well over 100 million (I think its like 110 or something) and it will increase another expected 9% next year. Yeah...Warren is really an albatross around our necks, isn't he? We aren't "eating turds". I'll gladly take your 5th round selection, which will likely operate as another 4th rounder for us.

[Ugly Duck]

Sure sounds as if you're making a lot of stuff up.


Well, you caught me. I said Sapp lost 50 lbs, but it was only 49 lbs. You're pretty sharp for a DonkFan!

Posted: May 6, 2007

ALAMEDA, Calif. -- JaMarcus Russell's immense size was much less of a jolt for many of the Oakland Raiders than the sight of Warren Sapp.

The formerly bulky Sapp arrived at minicamp this weekend looking like a scaled-down version of himself, dropping nearly 50 pounds since the end of last season and weighing only about 25 pounds more than Oakland's rookie quarterback.

"He looks funny, doesn't he," defensive end Derrick Burgess said. "Looks good though. I like what he did for himself. That should add about six more sacks to it I bet."

Sapp did just fine at his old weight of 334 pounds, recording 10 sacks in his most productive season since 2000.

But he still spent the offseason slimming down and is as light as he's been in years. Sapp wouldn't disclose how much weight he lost but coach Lane Kiffin said his star defensive tackle was down to 285 pounds from 334 late last season.

"He looks fast out here, he's flying around. Obviously we're extremely pleased where he's at right now," Kiffin said.

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?p=1950520

[Ugly Duck]

Anyhoo to the rest of you knuckle draggin Donk fans.... I'm Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack:welcome:

Hey Rock

[Drek]

Get out your calculator - I'll help you do the math:

• Raiders, if he makes the roster

Year Salary

2007 $595,000

• Broncos Year Salary-cap hit

2007 $742,000

2008 $2.23 million

So Al Davis only has to maybe shell out half a mil for one year & maybe get Warren's services, whereas Ratface has to shell out $3 mil over two years and gets squat. Looks like RatBoy is eating turds on this deal. Get it? Big Al risks very, very little.... but Ratface takes a two-year salary cap hit no matter what. Do the math....

I'd gladly pay $3M for an extra 5th round pick.

Hey, while you're at it why don't you see if you can sell all your other draft picks for other lazy, under preforming malcontents who have a small '07 base? I'm sure you could probably get the remainder of Vick's deal now pretty cheap, or maybe even Byron Leftwitch if you'd give up a 1st rounder.

[Raider Bill]

I'd gladly pay $3M for an extra 5th round pick.

.

What's the last Donkey 5th round pick to amount to anything?
Hilarious!

[Drek]

What's the last Donkey 5th round pick to amount to anything?
Hilarious!

Kuper's looking pretty good, and Shoate is a solid backup DB to have around.

Of course, I'm sure it'll be more like a late 4th, in which case we got guys like Brandon Marshall, Sam Brandon, and Ben Hamilton out of such types of picks.

Shanahan has found his fair share of late round values. Of course, he could also package it with our own or the 'skins 4th to get back into round 3.

Regardless of draft history though, you'd have to be a pretty poorly managed team cap-wise to prefer an extra ~$2.2M over a 5th round pick.

[Raider Bill]

If draft picks were saleable commodities, a 5th round selection would not cost 2 million dollars.

[Raider Bill]

Here's the best take I've seen on this

Two scenarios.

One is that he turns out to be just another warm body, an average defensive tackle. Those are usually available in free agency. To get a better player, more times than not, we would have to spend a higher draft pick than a fifth rounder.

Second is that he becomes an exceptional player. Since we acquired him for a year on the cheap this year, we can restructure him next year with a signing bonus. The end result is we got two years of good service for possibly a low average when taking all compensation into account for the two years.

Next season, we will have some money to play with salary cap wise. We have acquried quite a few young players. The chances that a fifth round pick would make the team next year are less than had we had a veteran team.

[Mediator12]

Lane kiffin Rolled the dice on a player he was advised not to bother with and got him for low risk. Warren is inconsistent as hell and is an anti-playmaker. I hope he gets a lot of PT for OAK this year ;D

[DarkGable]

The Raiders were so bad, that teams would scale down their playbooks, and greatly halt the pace of the game to a much more conservative pace. The 2nd half of many Raider games, saw the opposition often just pound the ball between the guards to rag the 2nd half clock.
...

Warren Sapp is an Average Defensive Tackle in this league these days and is a verbal schmuck.

Warren Sapp saw more 1st down Run, 2nd down Run, 3rd down Pass sequences last year, than any DT that I can remember. And that's because the Raiders were so awful.


I'm sorry but this post is ridiculous. As you noted, teams were conservative and would pound the ball between the tackles in the second half of games. How do you then claim that Sapp had an easier time getting sacks? It's obvious logic is not strong in your household. The Raider's faced the fewest pass attempts in the league, so you are full of schit if you think he had an easier time getting sacks than other D-tackles. Sapp is just better than the rest, and has the numbers to prove it. The only thing you got right was how bad our offense was. Good thing that was LAST year. As for the other Warren, he was your best defenseive linemen over the last 2 years, and we got him for a 5th round pick. Sorry, but Shanny screwed the pooch on this one.

[Greybeard]

I'm sorry but this post is ridiculous. As you noted, teams were conservative and would pound the ball between the tackles in the second half of games. How do you then claim that Sapp had an easier time getting sacks? It's obvious logic is not strong in your household. The Raider's faced the fewest pass attempts in the league, so you are full of schit if you think he had an easier time getting sacks than other D-tackles. Sapp is just better than the rest, and has the numbers to prove it. The only thing you got right was how bad our offense was. Good thing that was LAST year. As for the other Warren, he was your best defenseive linemen over the last 2 years, and we got him for a 5th round pick. Sorry, but Shanny screwed the pooch on this one.
In what seems typical of fans from the land of the Silly and Lack, you don't
know what you are talking about.

That Warren was our best DL the last two years, frankly, isn't saying whole
lot. That is like saying who is the strongest weight-lifter at a ladies' Bridge
club.

You obviously are oblivious to the fact that this year we have several at
Warren's position, who were not here last year. From TC reports out of Dove
Valley, by Kaylore, SoCal, and Mason, the names I heard at DT did not usually
include Warren's. I heard Adams, Kennedy, Thomas, McKinley, etc., but
seldom Warren, if at all.

Even though he continued to be listed as a starter, I got the impression that
Warren was not doing the best job among the candidates in camp. When a
player's compensation threatens to assault the CAP by some $20 million, and
he is just "one of the many" in camp, you get rid of him. Simple.

Even the trade arrangement suggests that both the Raiders and Broncos have
doubts as to how much Warren can/will contribute. You cannot take an
example where a player will produce a 5th round draft choice if he makes the
team or nothing if he does not and say that anyone "screwed the pooch."

YOU are the one, then, who looks silly in this discussion.

-----

[DarkGable]

That Warren was our best DL the last two years, frankly, isn't saying whole
lot. That is like saying who is the strongest weight-lifter at a ladies' Bridge
club.

I never claimed that being the best Bronco's D linemen was very impressive. You have a solid team, but your D line sucks. Either way, he will be a backup so he will clearly be worth the small price.



Even though he continued to be listed as a starter, I got the impression that
Warren was not doing the best job among the candidates in camp. When a
player's compensation threatens to assault the CAP by some $20 million, and
he is just "one of the many" in camp, you get rid of him. Simple.

Even the trade arrangement suggests that both the Raiders and Broncos have
doubts as to how much Warren can/will contribute. You cannot take an
example where a player will produce a 5th round draft choice if he makes the
team or nothing if he does not and say that anyone "screwed the pooch."
-----

Not surprisingly you are wrong again. Warren already renegotiated his contract, so the only guaranteed money he has this year is the league minimum of $600,000. The rest of the contract is meaningless as they could easily release or restructure his contract next year. Of course it was the "Mastermind" who already gave him $6.5 million over the last 2 years while calling him a Pro Bowl caliber player. Also maybe the Broncos could have gotten more than a 5th round pick if Shanny didn't lose all of his leverage by holding Warren out of the preseason. At that point the only thing they could get was a low round pick, because it was likely they were going to release him if they couldn't work out a trade. Once again, blame Shanny. Keep spinning, but reality is not in your favor.

[Greybeard]

I never claimed that being the best Bronco's D linemen was very impressive. You have a solid team, but your D line sucks. Either way, he will be a backup so he will clearly be worth the small price.
Not even Sapp is optimistic Warren will make the team. I guess realism isn't your forté?

Not surprisingly you are wrong again. Warren already renegotiated his contract, so the only guaranteed money he has this year is the league minimum of $600,000. The rest of the contract is meaningless as they could easily release or restructure his contract next year. Of course it was the "Mastermind" who already gave him $6.5 million over the last 2 years while calling him a Pro Bowl caliber player. Also maybe the Broncos could have gotten more than a 5th round pick if Shanny didn't lose all of his leverage by holding Warren out of the preseason. At that point the only thing they could get was a low round pick, because it was likely they were going to release him if they couldn't work out a trade. Once again, blame Shanny. Keep spinning, but reality is not in your favor.
I guess contracts aren't your strong suit, either? The Broncos unloaded about
$20 million from the salary Cap by dumping Warren. You see, Warren's
remuneration was to increase considerably over the next two years.

Best you talk about something more along the lines of your knowledge or
expertise . . . whatever that may be (I haven't seen it yet).

-----

[DarkGable]

Not even Sapp is optimistic Warren will make the team. I guess realism isn't your forté?

Funny I didn't realize he was the coach or the GM. Learn something new every day.


I guess contracts aren't your strong suit, either? The Broncos unloaded about
$20 million from the salary Cap by dumping Warren.

Best you talk about something more along the lines of your knowledge or
expertise . . . whatever that may be (I haven't seen it yet).

-----

Once again all of the money is in future years of his contract, so it was completely meaningless as they could have cut him or renegotiated at the end of the year and they would not have taken anywhere near a "20 Million" hit. Oh, and insults are not a substitute for facts. Just so you know.

[Greybeard]

Once again all of the money is in future years of his contract, so it was completely meaningless as they could have cut him or renegotiated at the end of the year and they would not have taken anywhere near a "20 Million" hit.
Well, as I mentioned in another thread, Warren sucked, so he's history. Therefore,
if he makes your team in the land of the Silly & Lack, that will serve as a
commentary on the level of quality there. Perhaps Sapp sucks now, too?

Oh, and insults are not a substitute for facts. Just so you know.
That being the case, I look forward to many other insults from you. ;)

-----

[DarkGable]

That being the case, I look forward to many other insults from you. ;)

-----

ROFL! Touche