Warren goes to Raiders

[chawknz]

... CBS is reporting Warren goes to Raiders for an 08 draft pick.

Edit: Didn't have a link at the time. Thanks, RunSilentRunDeep (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/member.php?u=6491) for providing: http://blog.denverbroncos.com/mason/...lt-to-oakland/ (http://blog.denverbroncos.com/mason/2007/08/20/warren-dealt-to-oakland/)

[BroncoBen]

Talk about really wanting to move him... I wonder what type of pick.

[lazarus4444]

Its probably conditional but i'm sure we didn't get a lot.

[RunSilentRunDeep]

Undisclosed. Better be more than a 7th.

http://blog.denverbroncos.com/mason/2007/08/20/warren-dealt-to-oakland/

[Bronco Yoda]

Huh? no... really?

[bronco militia]

Link!

[lazarus4444]

what a slap in the face to warren, going to the raiders, lol. Talk about being in the doghouse, poor guy.

[footstepsfrom#27]

That's a good defense already...not sure this was a good idea unless we got something nice in return. Meanwhile...say hello to Anon Gordon as your starting DT...can't say that really does much for me.

[dbfan21]

Geez. I can't belioeve they kept him in the division. He is going to have paybacks on his mind this year.

[bronco militia]

thanks for the link

[Popcorn Sutton]

That's a good defense already...not sure this was a good idea unless we got something nice in return. Meanwhile...say hello to Anon Gordon as your starting DT...can't say that really does much for me.

I'll second that.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Geez. I can't belioeve they kept him in the division. He is going to have paybacks on his mind this year.
Not to mention...he knows all the defensive plays. What are you doing Shanny?

[Mediator12]

Warren to the Raiders:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp07/news/story?id=2982669


To all the Warren Homers:

That is how much DEN thought of him. They traded him to a division rival with a better defense already. Get over him. He was a below average starter at DT the last two years who was covered by the back seven to even look decent most plays.

[Beantown Bronco]

Not to mention...he knows all the defensive plays. What are you doing Shanny?

He hasn't practiced with them in two weeks....all he learned this year is how to cut in line at the training camp buffets.

[400HZ]

Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!

[bronco militia]

Not to mention...he knows all the defensive plays. What are you doing Shanny?

you're joking right?

12 years of Domination not to mention 24 game films of Shanny vs. da Raiduhs and all of the sudden Warren is going to let them in on the big secrets!

:giggle:

[crowebomber]

Yeah, trading a disgruntled player to a divisional rival doesn't make a lot of sense to me. However, in terms of him knowing the broncos defense, I don't think most of the starters have Bates' defense figured out yet, so I doubt Warren will take many secrets with him.

[Mediator12]

Not to mention...he knows all the defensive plays. What are you doing Shanny?

I know all the defensive plays too, so what ??? It's not a smoke and mirrors scheme. It's not like the playbook is anywhere near complicated, diverse, or original. It's a line up and beat the guy in front of you scheme and right now DEN does not have the talent up front to do that. That is why they are behind where GB was when Bates was there.

Heck they have not even put in the final adjustments before the first game installation packages. Everything right now is pure base package and design.

[Mediator12]

Not to mention...he knows all the defensive plays. What are you doing Shanny?

I know all the defensive plays too, so what ??? It's not a smoke and mirrors scheme. It's not like the playbook is anywhere near complicated, diverse, or original. It's a line up and beat the guy in front of you scheme and right now DEN does not have the talent up front to do that. That is why they are behind where GB was when Bates was there.

Heck they have not even put in the final adjustments before the first game installation packages. Everything right now is pure base package and design.

[HEAV]

Raiders acquired DT Gerard Warren from the Broncos for an undisclosed draft pick.

Has the ice thawed in Mike Shanahan and Al Davis' relationship? Denver must be confident Warren won't help Oakland to deal him to a bitter rival. The draft pick is probably conditional on Warren making a contribution. Warren had a fine 2005 season, but has been inconsistent as a pro.
Source: DenverBroncos.com



WTF!

WTF!

WTF!

Bad move trading a player that you will have to play twice.

Damn it Shanny!

[Taco John]

I can't figure out what the hell we're doing on defense.

[55CrushEm]

I can't figure out what the hell we're doing on defense.

Judging from Saturday night's game.....neither can our own players....

[go_broncos]

http://cbs4denver.com/broncos/local_story_232105025.html

[NaptownChief]

The fact Denver dumped him to a division rival for probably not a whole lot does tell you how little they thought of him. They probably think they are dumping a real turd on the Raiders and would have probably given them a draft pick to take him.

Giving him a decent contract was definitely one of the Denvers worst moves in a while.

[ikiru]

Not to mention...he knows all the defensive plays. What are you doing Shanny?

Based on how our DL is playing these days, Warren would be the ONLY guy that knows the plays. :oyvey:

-ikiru

*enjoy the sauce*

[bronco militia]

Giving him a decent contract was definitely one of the Denvers worst moves in a while.

not really...it's on par with all the other DL debacles since 1999.

[Smiling Assassin27]

now warren sapp won't be the biggest mouth/underachiever on the defense.

[go_broncos]

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/nfl/article/0,2777,DRMN_23918_5677775,00.html

This link tells the details of the deal

[Mediator12]

Everyone relax on the defense. I just went back and graded the film and it is a mess. They are totally out of sync in recognizing their assignments with formation changes and motion. This is where they have to really take it up a notch. They were having guys miss gaps in the running game, switches in the passing game, and just not getting any penetration from the DL at all.

To put it simply, they still have no idea what they are supposed to be doing in the scheme yet and are thinking instead of playing. The DL has all new techniques they have not mastered, the LB's are screwing up their keys and reads, and the secondary is just trying to survive the learning curve.

It was not surprising to see almost all of DAL passing success come on crossing, drag, and in routes as that is the main weakness of the scheme. They also destroyed the C and D gaps all night long and cutback against the wide nine DE where DJ and the OL on that side had overpursued. It was just a case of overplaying and not maintaining their responsibilities as they learn. Still too much thinking going on and not enough attacking defensively.

[cmhargrove]

My only possible positive thus far: will dumping Warren free up some salary cap to let us go after another DT or DE?

I would sure like to think Sundquist has another potential D-lineman on the radar.

[RaiderH8r]

I can't figure out what the hell we're doing on defense.

I think we're going to try something on D that we haven't tried in years. We're going to suck up front and let our DBs cover for anywhere between 5 and 10 minutes per play before thinking about getting pressure. This year we've thrown in the added twist of not playing the run well, it's a bend and break defensive approach and should be taking the league by storm in the years to come. Honestly, it's a foolproof plan and should get us that high round pick Shanny's been itching for without having to package the rest of our picks to get there. Brilliant, just brilliant. I love this move. :strong:

[Hogan11]

The fact Denver dumped him to a division rival for probably not a whole lot does tell you how little they thought of him. They probably think they are dumping a real turd on the Raiders and would have probably given them a draft pick to take him.

Giving him a decent contract was definitely one of the Denvers worst moves in a while.

QFT. 100% accurate, end of discussion.

[bronco militia]

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/nfl/article/0,2777,DRMN_23918_5677775,00.html

This link tells the details of the deal

lol..thanks

[go_broncos]

The Broncos today traded defensive tackle Gerard Warren, but he didn't go far.
Denver traded Warren to the arch-rival Oakland Raiders for a conditional pick in the 2008 NFL draft.

If Warren is on the Raiders' roster for their season opener, Sept. 9 vs. Detroit, the Broncos will get a fifth-round draft pick. If Warren is not on the roster, the Broncos get nothing.

Warren, a seventh-year NFL player, spent two seasons with the Broncos after they obtained him in a trade with Cleveland on March 2, 2005.

The Broncos play host to the Raiders on Sept. 16 and visit Oakland on Dec. 2.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/nfl/article/0,2777,DRMN_23918_5677775,00.html

[chickennob2]

If we had to trade him, this is the best possible move (outside of an off-the-schedule NFC team). He goes to a team that already had a great defense, thus he can't improve it very much. And regardless, their defense can be amazing and they still won't be a threat without an offense. I like the move.

[Man-Goblin]

The Broncos today traded defensive tackle Gerard Warren, but he didn't go far.
Denver traded Warren to the arch-rival Oakland Raiders for a conditional pick in the 2008 NFL draft.

If Warren is on the Raiders' roster for their season opener, Sept. 9 vs. Detroit, the Broncos will get a fifth-round draft pick. If Warren is not on the roster, the Broncos get nothing.

Warren, a seventh-year NFL player, spent two seasons with the Broncos after they obtained him in a trade with Cleveland on March 2, 2005.

The Broncos play host to the Raiders on Sept. 16 and visit Oakland on Dec. 2.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/nfl/article/0,2777,DRMN_23918_5677775,00.html

They didn't even get the 4th they gave up for him.

[johnstkr]

... If Warren is not on the roster, the Broncos get nothing. ...

Wow, just wow, at least for Jake not showing up we got something, this was just throwing him away to throw him away. Any chances he sticks? I guess Sapp has all these years, even at that, he's no sapp.

[Beantown Bronco]

They didn't even get the 4th they gave up for him.

Can't sell a beat up, used car for the same amount you paid for it after two years of use either....

[Man-Goblin]

Can't sell a beat up, used car for the same amount you paid for it after two years of use either....

But that's just the thing; he was a beat up used car when the Broncos acquired him. At least now he was just one year removed from what many believed to be a very good season.

They must have been freaking anxious to get rid of him. If I remember correctly, the Broncos had already paid him the roster bonuses he was due earlier in the year and he was only owed about 600K more.

[footstepsfrom#27]

I know all the defensive plays too, so what ??? It's not a smoke and mirrors scheme. It's not like the playbook is anywhere near complicated, diverse, or original. It's a line up and beat the guy in front of you scheme and right now DEN does not have the talent up front to do that. That is why they are behind where GB was when Bates was there.
Maybe I'm mistaken on this but didn't Bates say we had MORE talent here than he had in Green Bay? I thought he made a point of saying they were behind on picking up the scheme vs. Green Bay...not an issue of talent.

No?

[Ugly Duck]

Don't like this deal cuz I don't trust RatFace.

[Garcia Bronco]

Obviously the guy has a bad attitude, or he would still be with the team. People at any job that bitch and moan about what they are and aren't gonna do are the worst. I tell people that work for me all the time: You can be the smartest person in the world, but it you can't develop relationships and be a team player then you are no damn good to me.

[Meck77]

Just goes to show you what Coyer really had to work with now doesn't it? He was supposed to be the MAN and now he's tossed aside to the freakin raiders like a piece of junk. Good riddance. We needed a little fuel to the raider hate anyway.

[Man-Goblin]

Maybe I'm mistaken on this but didn't Bates say we had MORE talent here than he had in Green Bay? I thought he made a point of saying they were behind on picking up the scheme vs. Green Bay...not an issue of talent.

No?

Bates said in the same quote that this team was more talented than that GB and THAT was why he was concerned.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Another player that Donk fans have been overrating for years.

[orangefan]

It does dump his hefty salary though and give us the opportunity to look at other options, be it DL, WR or LB.

[400HZ]

Obviously the guy has a bad attitude, or he would still be with the team. People at any job that b**** and moan about what they are and aren't gonna do are the worst. I tell people that work for me all the time: You can be the smartest person in the world, but it you can't develop relationships and be a team player then you are no damn good to me.

It could also be an Al Wilson type trade.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Based on how our DL is playing these days, Warren would be the ONLY guy that knows the plays. :oyvey:
Point taken...I retract that idea.

[55CrushEm]

Bates said in the same quote that this team was more talented than that GB and THAT was why he was concerned.

So let me get this straight......we have MORE talent than his GB team. THEY were good, but WE suck.....

Also, according to Mediator, this is a not a complex defense to learn......

The only conclusion can be is that we have a bunch of talented, ****ing retards on defense.....???

[Popcorn Sutton]

I'd say a 5th for him is pretty good value at this point. How does this affect the cap? If the Broncos had cut him, the signing bonus would have been prorated over the next two seasons right?

In other words, are the Broncos now completely free and clear of Warren's contract?

[orangefan]

Also, according to Mediator, this is a not a complex defense to learn......

The only conclusion can be is that we have a bunch of talented, ****ing retards on defense.....???[/QUOTE]

I'm not ready to give up on our D yet. This was really the first week they have worked against something other than a zone blocking scheme.I see a defense that will mature and get better as the season goes on, unlike last year where we faded as the season went by. Perhaps it's the orange tinted glasses I wear... I think not!

[Steve Prefontaine]

I still can't believe the way people are overreacting to the loss to the Cowboys. Denver lost a preseason game...on the road...to a pretty talented offensive team. It's not like they lost to some scrub team like the Chiefs.

The defense has a lot of talent and there is still 3 weeks until their first game that matters. If Buffalo puts up 30 on the defense, then I'll be concerned.

[RunSilentRunDeep]

Everyone relax on the defense. I just went back and graded the film and it is a mess. They are totally out of sync in recognizing their assignments with formation changes and motion. This is where they have to really take it up a notch. They were having guys miss gaps in the running game, switches in the passing game, and just not getting any penetration from the DL at all.

To put it simply, they still have no idea what they are supposed to be doing in the scheme yet and are thinking instead of playing. The DL has all new techniques they have not mastered, the LB's are screwing up their keys and reads, and the secondary is just trying to survive the learning curve.

It was not surprising to see almost all of DAL passing success come on crossing, drag, and in routes as that is the main weakness of the scheme. They also destroyed the C and D gaps all night long and cutback against the wide nine DE where DJ and the OL on that side had overpursued. It was just a case of overplaying and not maintaining their responsibilities as they learn. Still too much thinking going on and not enough attacking defensively.

So why should everyone relax? If they only ran two fronts and coverages in a simple defense and they're still completely confused, what does that say? Has Bates lost he's teaching mojo? Are the players morons? That's a pretty veteran group of guys out there and they've been working on it for months.

And can someone explain to me when the DTs are going to start tying up multiple blockers? I've watched both games twice and all I see is the DT doing a gentle waltz with the guard. No second lineman is needed on Adams, Gordon and company.

[Ratboy]

Wow. Sometimes I wonder if Shanahan thinks before he does these things.

[Jesterhole]

This trade sucks. Just because he doesn't fit our system doesn't mean he doesn't fit any...

We all pretty much agree dude has been our best tackle the past two years. And we just gave him to our division rival...probably for nothing. While taking a huge cap hit. WTF?!?!

[Ratboy]

Yep. I've lost a lot of hope this season. I sure hope they pull their **** together soon.

[Crushaholic]

Don't like this deal cuz I don't trust RatFace.

...as well you shouldn't. Shanahan had a good reason for doing this deal. I think he'll hurt the Raiders more than he would help them because of his attitude/work ethic/injury issues.

[Ratboy]

Maybe Shanahan is paying Warren under the table and Warren is going to give us all the raiders secrets?

[cutthemdown]

Broncos are being really stupid. Pay Warren a huge bonus then trade him for nothing 2 years later. Really smart move Shanny and Sundquist. This whole year is start to smell like a cluster**** and it hasn't even started yet.

[Popcorn Sutton]

This trade sucks. Just because he doesn't fit our system doesn't mean he doesn't fit any...

We all pretty much agree dude has been our best tackle the past two years. And we just gave him to our division rival...probably for nothing. While taking a huge cap hit. WTF?!?!

I know Warren had a small cap number this season after he restructured. What I am curious about is what effect this has on the cap for next year? Anybody know? How much of the signing bonus are the Broncos still responsible for?

[crowebomber]

Maybe Shanahan is paying Warren under the table and Warren is going to give us all the raiders secrets?

It's no secret that they suck. We would have no need for an insider in Raiders' camp.

[bronco_diesel]

Yep. I've lost a lot of hope this season. I sure hope they pull their **** together soon.

to lose hope now is just silly. sorry.

i am most def. concerned, but there are also a number of reasons to have a little optimism.

it's preseason. not be be cliche, but this is why there is a preseason - to work out the areas of concern and evaluate the play. the team is still working out a new scheme with many new faces and a position switch for DJ.

i also think that the FO may be considering bringing in a new body - at least i hope.

having said all that, this D is not nearly as good as i thought it might be. i sincerely hope it is just an adjustment period and things will turn around - but i have strong reservations as to whether DJ is really going to cut it at mike - and i also believe we need a bit more strength at DL.

but to lose hope - no way.

[Mediator12]

So why should everyone relax? If they only ran two fronts and coverages in a simple defense and they're still completely confused, what does that say? Has Bates lost he's teaching mojo? Are the players morons? That's a pretty veteran group of guys out there and they've been working on it for months.

And can someone explain to me when the DTs are going to start tying up multiple blockers? I've watched both games twice and all I see is the DT doing a gentle waltz with the guard. No second lineman is needed on Adams, Gordon and company.

Because practice is not game speed and it is scripted. The players do not have to think on the fly and adjust. That is where they are making mistakes. A simple Defensive scheme still has a a thousand sight adjustments based on Personnel, formation, down and distance. Guys are not making the right reads in live action.

That is what preseason games are for people! To get live action reads for game day speed plays. It is a huge necessity for teams making wholesale changes like DEN is on defense with 6 new starters, three new Defensive Coaches, and a whole new scheme.

Again, the average fan can tell you that DEN got their ass kicked by DAL, but has no reasons as to WHY! The WHY is that players are not getting their reads down and being instinctive to the the playcall. They are still trying to process information at the snap and getting beat because their timing is off and they are on their heels instead of attacking. This is a VERY aggressive scheme. It is a scheme that causes a lot of pressure on the offense when ran properly. However, it is being ran entirely too PASSIVELY right now. Players are trying to not make mistakes, instead of attacking their gaps and being physical.

[Garcia Bronco]

The Raiders defense is very good. I don't exactly understand you people that are slaming it. Did you actually read their rankings from last season?

[Requiem]

Warren will be on their final roster. I figured it'd be a fourth this year at best, but I'll take a fifth, or basically another late fourth round selection considering that it's likely the Raiders will finish in the bottom ten in the league again. Some people are probably mad, but they have to understand the situation. At least we have the opportunity to get something.

The Broncos found a suitor, and this was probably the best we could get. Interesting it's to a division rival, but I'd rather have the chance to get something instead of absolutely nothing for his services.

This will help recoup the loss of a sixth-rounder to St. Louis for Kennedy. As it stands right now, Denver has the following selections.

First Rounder
Second Rounder
Fourth Rounder
Fourth Rounder (via Washington)
Fifth Rounder
Fifth Rounder (via Oakland, conditional)
Seventh Rounder
Seventh Rounder (via Tampa Bay, conditional - escalates to a fourth if he reports.)

Not a bad day two, in a draft that will be loaded with talent. We'll see how it goes. :)

[Beantown Bronco]

Maybe he'll fail their physical.....

[SpringStein]

As usual, I totally agree with your post, Req. I'm thrilled to get what is likely a high 5th rounder.

[Popcorn Sutton]

I know Warren had a small cap number this season after he restructured. What I am curious about is what effect this has on the cap for next year? Anybody know? How much of the signing bonus are the Broncos still responsible for?

Nevermind... I found it.

What happens if a player is traded or retires?

Answer: We already know that if a player is waived on or before June 1, the remaining signing bonus that has not been included in salary “accelerates” and is included in that year’s team salary. Acceleration also occurs when a player is traded or waived and picked up by another team. The new team is not responsible for any of the original signing bonus.

[SoDak Bronco]

What is with the Broncos Fans jumping ship on the season? Are you serious? I will love to bring this thread back up in week 8 when we are 6-2, and the defense is playing stellar and making turnovers. Wow, people need to settle down, I am happy we didn't just release him, atleast we are getting a 5th rounder for him, he is not going to get cut.

[orangefan]

Nevermind... I found it.

What happens if a player is traded or retires?

Answer: We already know that if a player is waived on or before June 1, the remaining signing bonus that has not been included in salary “accelerates” and is included in that year’s team salary. Acceleration also occurs when a player is traded or waived and picked up by another team. The new team is not responsible for any of the original signing bonus.

So what does the cap hit amount to?

[24champ]

Not surprised. Warren was a primadonna, bye bye.

[rovolution]

Warren will be on their final roster. I figured it'd be a fourth this year at best, but I'll take a fifth, or basically another late fourth round selection considering that it's likely the Raiders will finish in the bottom ten in the league again. Some people are probably mad, but they have to understand the situation. At least we have the opportunity to get something.

The Broncos found a suitor, and this was probably the best we could get. Interesting it's to a division rival, but I'd rather have the chance to get something instead of absolutely nothing for his services.

This will help recoup the loss of a sixth-rounder to St. Louis for Kennedy. As it stands right now, Denver has the following selections.

First Rounder
Second Rounder
Fourth Rounder
Fourth Rounder (via Washington)
Fifth Rounder
Fifth Rounder (via Oakland, conditional)
Seventh Rounder
Seventh Rounder (via Tampa Bay, conditional - escalates to a fourth if he reports.)

Not a bad day two, in a draft that will be loaded with talent. We'll see how it goes. :)

Maybe the FO can parlay some of those 4ths and 5ths into a 3rd as well.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

i'm still laughing about warren giving away our "defensive plays"

[Drek]

This trade sucks. Just because he doesn't fit our system doesn't mean he doesn't fit any...

We all pretty much agree dude has been our best tackle the past two years. And we just gave him to our division rival...probably for nothing. While taking a huge cap hit. WTF?!?!

Our best tackle the last two years isn't saying a whole damn lot. His competition was Mike Myers, a guy who is now running second team for the Bengals behind Domata Peko, and Veal, who is so damn far down our depth chart he's basically an afterthought.

We got better DT play the last two years when Pryce and Ekuban moved inside on nickel downs. Warren was about league average in '05, well below average last season, and this was acknowledged by him taking a pay cut this spring.

Obviously he doesn't want to or simply can't work well in this defense. He didn't work all that well in a more traditional 4-3 with both Coyer and when he was back in Cleveland. He refused to play in a 3-4 when Cleveland was changing over. I don't see a defense out there that is a good fit for him, because he thinks he's a pass rush superstar like Warren Sapp ten years ago, when he simply doesn't have the talent and the league is completely different.

[broncolife]

dang I was hoping it was something like if he got 10 sacks we would get a 1st. Then all we would have to do is let Ramsey go in after we have our 30 point lead and take the sacks. :)

[Beantown Bronco]

So what does the cap hit amount to?

I'm guessing around $2-3 million this year and $5-6 million next year.

(He signed a 6 yr deal back in pre-season 2006 with approx. $10 million in signing bonus)

[HEAV]

The Raiders defense is very good. I don't exactly understand you people that are slaming it. Did you actually read their rankings from last season?

I agree. The Raiders had a hell of a defense in 2006, if it weren't for that piss poor offense, they could have been battling the Chargers for the AFC west.

[Beantown Bronco]

As it stands right now, Denver has the following selections.

First Rounder
Second Rounder
Fourth Rounder
Fourth Rounder (via Washington)
Fifth Rounder
Fifth Rounder (via Oakland, conditional)
Seventh Rounder
Seventh Rounder (via Tampa Bay, conditional - escalates to a fourth if he reports.)

Not a bad day two, in a draft that will be loaded with talent. We'll see how it goes. :)

Man.....I really wish Jake would've reported to TB, if only for a day or two.

[Requiem]

Maybe the FO can parlay some of those 4ths and 5ths into a 3rd as well.

As much as I'd like to get back into the third round, I'd rather have those four picks instead of placing a few of them together to get back into the third round. I think that there will be a lot of players at positions we could use help at (S, DT, WR) at that time. I'm almost finished with my prospects to watch board for this year. :) I'm like SoCal, we're pick whores. I'm willing to bet there will be other trades made that will get us other picks. We're not even close to being done moving around yet. Can't wait for the draft.

[Drek]

Just did a bit of research on Warren's contract btw.

His initial contract with us signed before last season was 6 years, $36M, with $10M in bonuses. From what I can find he basically gave up over $3M in bonus money when his contract was renegotated, with it turned into 2008 base salary instead. He was going to get $5.4M in bonuses, and is instead only getting about $2M in bonus money for this year. PFT says that including this year he'll earn $6.5M of his $36M contract (take that for what its worth). So assuming we paid absolutely zero bonus money last year our maximum cap hit going forward would be the $2M for this year and $3.5M in guaranteed bonuses/bonus money paid in '06. I doubt we gave him absolutely zero money last year other than his base, so we're probably looking at a pretty marginal cap hit when you figure that we already had the $2M on the books for this season (and I believe it hits this year's cap, while any lingering guranteed payments will hit next year's).

Meanwhile, this is now his contract going to the Raiders:
<table class="tableDisplay" xmlns:rs="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:rowset" xmlns:z="#RowsetSchema" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td><table class="tableDisplay" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td class="tabledata">2007</td><td class="tabledata" align="right">595000.00</td></tr><tr><td class="tabledata">2008</td><td class="tabledata" align="right">4000000.00</td></tr><tr><td class="tabledata">2009</td><td class="tabledata" align="right">4630000.00</td></tr><tr><td class="tabledata">2010</td><td class="tabledata" align="right">4680000.00</td></tr></tbody></table></td><td>
</td></tr></tbody></table>
Talk about poison pill. There is no way he stays with them after '07 short of a total redo of his deal.

[broncsyanks]

that was a dumb ass move. we could have used him to trade for strahan. or at least not our rival. watch he will have a good year now

[Orange_Beard]

This tells you how little shanny thinks of warren.

[Popps]

Geez. I can't belioeve they kept him in the division. .

I think that tells us just how little they thought of the guy. If they had even the remotest concern that he could play, he'd be out of the division.

[Popps]

This tells you how little shanny thinks of warren.

Oops, didn't see your post. You're right, though. :)

[cabronco]

Before jumping to conclusions , I think I will wait to see if he passes the Faiders physical. For all we know he may have some kind of chronic injury condition . If so, hopefully it goes undetected by the Faid. Its not like it hasnt been tried before.

[Pseudofool]

People play too much Madden football where you can get a 1st rounder from some team for Warren.

1) A deal fell through during the SF game, that led to the entire league realizing that Warren was on the outs in Denver; this dramatically reduces any barganing power the Broncos had.

2) The Broncos wouldn't have risked showing their hand, if they didn't think there was something WRONG with Warren. Whether it's physical, mental, or attitude, does it matter?

3) What the Broncos paid him in a bonus or what they gave up for him two years ago has no relevance to his value now. This is the NFL where players can go from All-pro to teamless, sometimes in a matter of weeks (See: Al Wilson).

4) We got something, which honestly surprises the heck out of me. It's a high fifth rounder (undoubtedly), and hopefully can be used to move up to the third round (or higher in the fourth round) if we see a player we like.

5) There was never any legitimacy to any Strahan rumors. Strahan wants a longterm deal (hence the holdout) and why would Shanny want to give an aging player a contract like that?

6) We acquired so many DTs this offseason in case some of the cogs did not fit the wheel. We should have expected something like this to happen.

[Garcia Bronco]

He doesn't have an injury. I feel confident of that. He's got a poor work ethic once he gets paid.

[Garcia Bronco]

People play too much Madden football where you can get a 1st rounder from some team for Warren.

1) A deal fell through during the SF game, that led to the entire league realizing that Warren was on the outs in Denver; this dramatically reduces any barganing power the Broncos had.


I for one am surprised we got anything for him. That we got it out of the Faid is amazing.

[Orange_Beard]

I wounder if they will try him at QB?

[listopencil]

I don't know. My gut reaction is "WTF?" but I remember TC reports from Kaylore that didn't mention Warren as one of the guys who looked like playmakers on the D. I'm hoping there is somebody we can grab to put on the field because the D has looked like crap so far. I know, I know-it's preseason...but the D-Line was dominated by the 9ers (I watched the entire game) and it sounds like it was dominated by the Cowboys (I don't want to watch the game) so something needs to change quickly. Getting rid of Warren doesn't change anything because he hasn't played for us. At least it sounds like we just got out from under his contract as much as we possibly could.

[bpc]

The good?

1. Get rid of his contract and this messy situation on our roster
2. A high draft pick, whatever round it is. Is it quoted as a 5th? I doubt we would get much more than that from the Raiders.

The bad?

1. Traded to a division rival, will be playing us twice this year.
2. He joins a pretty potent DT rotation with Warren Sapp, TERDell Sands, and now Warren.

Its going to be rough running on the middle of that defense if he fits in well with his new unit. Still, I also doubt he'll be there longer than this season unless he just flat out dominates. Him and Sapp should make a pretty potent 3-1 technique attack for the Raiders.

[NYBronco]

There could be a player or two soon to be released when teams begin their training camp cuts and the Broncos will be seeking to clear some cap money.

I agree with others that have stated the raiders already have a decent defense. The Warren signing doesn't concern to me. Information about Denver's defense will probably confuse al davis and the raiders more than benefit them.

[Rohirrim]

I'm glad to hear that Shanny is positioning the team for the draft next year.

[Bronco LB 59]

Good riddance. Thank you for taking Denver's "sloppy seconds" Oakland. Hopefully, Shanahan and Sundquist can turn the draft pick into something special so we can stick it to Al Davis again. I hope this trade is right up there with Rich Jackson when it's all said and done.

[rovolution]

5) There was never any legitimacy to any Strahan rumors. Strahan wants a longterm deal (hence the holdout) and why would Shanny want to give an aging player a contract like that?
.

correct me if im wrong, but didnt Shanny give Neil Smith a long term deal after the first SB win? (long term as in like 3 years but still, that was pretty significant for a guy who was basically done)

[Raider Bill]

Good riddance. Thank you for taking Denver's "sloppy seconds" Oakland. Hopefully, Shanahan and Sundquist can turn the draft pick into something special so we can stick it to Al Davis again. I hope this trade is right up there with Rich Jackson when it's all said and done.

The next time you stick it to Oakland on a trade will be the first.

We could just flip him to Indy for a pick. :P

[rovolution]

playing with Sapp could motivate him like those in Cleveland and Denver couldn't (sans his 2005 contract year). I remember reading one of the DenverBroncos.com interviews with Warren, and he said Sapp was his idol and the player he modeled (unsuccessfully) his game after.

[yerner]

Obviously, Shannahan has taken up drinking this offseason.

[NW Bolt Fan]

Warren is good when playing for a contract. He's already got one. He'll be worthless. Turds just blew a late round draft pick.

You could look at it this way. A lesser talent higher effort guy will be in there, instead of a higher talent lazy ass. Either way, things on the donk line remain the same.

[Bob]

Geez. I can't belioeve they kept him in the division. He is going to have paybacks on his mind this year.

I think we are going to regret this move all year!

[Beantown Bronco]

The next time you stick it to Oakland on a trade will be the first.

How do you explain the trade that is being discussed in the other thread then? Gaston Green was traded from the Broncos to the Faid for a third rounder.....and he never played a down for the Faid. That sure sounds like "sticking it" to Oakland to me.

[boltaneer]

I think Denver was fortunate to get anything for him at all. Everyone knew Warren was a goner.

However, even if it's the lowly Raiders, I never think it's a good thing to trade players to a division rival (though he could go sign with them if you cut him anyways). IMO, it's just a matter of principle.

[Raider Bill]

How do you explain the trade that is being discussed in the other thread then? Gaston Green was traded from the Broncos to the Faid for a third rounder.....and he never played a down for the Faid. That sure sounds like "sticking it" to Oakland to me.


Not as bad as the string of beads we traded for Hall of Famer Willie Brown Hilarious!

[BroncoSoja]

Not to mention...he knows all the defensive plays. What are you doing Shanny?


For once we agree.. What are you doing.....

[baja]

I don't understand this trade. The Raiders would have been first in line had we cut Warren which is what we would have had to do if the Raiders passed because obviously there were no other takers for us to make a trade within the division.

[bronco_diesel]

I don't understand this trade. The Raiders would have been first in line had we cut Warren which is what we would have had to do if the Raiders passed because obviously there were no other takers for us to make a trade within the division.

the key being "had we cut"

it's possible had we not traded, we would not cut him....

[baja]

the key being "had we cut"

it's possible had we not traded, we would not cut him....

You really think keeping him was an option when we took a 5th round conditional pick? He was gone gone gone.

[BroncoInferno]

How do you explain the trade that is being discussed in the other thread then? Gaston Green was traded from the Broncos to the Faid for a third rounder.....and he never played a down for the Faid. That sure sounds like "sticking it" to Oakland to me.

For the record, that 3rd rounder was parlayed into the Bronco with the longest active record of service, Jason Elam.

[Beantown Bronco]

I don't understand this trade. The Raiders would have been first in line had we cut Warren which is what we would have had to do if the Raiders passed because obviously there were no other takers for us to make a trade within the division.

I don't understand your post. First, you say that you don't understand the trade. Then you say that, if we cut him, the Faid would've snatched him up because nobody else wanted him. So why don't you understand the concept of getting something where they could've easily cut him and gotten nothing? If the end result is him going to the Faid regardless, why not at least get the draft pick in return?

[rovolution]

I don't understand this trade. The Raiders would have been first in line had we cut Warren which is what we would have had to do if the Raiders passed because obviously there were no other takers for us to make a trade within the division.

in all honesty, i think the Skins would have been the first to snatch him up if he had been released.

I think Synder was calling Shannys hand, and he failed.

[eddie mac]

Just did a bit of research on Warren's contract btw.

His initial contract with us signed before last season was 6 years, $36M, with $10M in bonuses. From what I can find he basically gave up over $3M in bonus money when his contract was renegotated, with it turned into 2008 base salary instead. He was going to get $5.4M in bonuses, and is instead only getting about $2M in bonus money for this year. PFT says that including this year he'll earn $6.5M of his $36M contract (take that for what its worth). So assuming we paid absolutely zero bonus money last year our maximum cap hit going forward would be the $2M for this year and $3.5M in guaranteed bonuses/bonus money paid in '06. I doubt we gave him absolutely zero money last year other than his base, so we're probably looking at a pretty marginal cap hit when you figure that we already had the $2M on the books for this season (and I believe it hits this year's cap, while any lingering guranteed payments will hit next year's).

Meanwhile, this is now his contract going to the Raiders:
<table class="tableDisplay" xmlns:rs="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:rowset" xmlns:z="#RowsetSchema" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td><table class="tableDisplay" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td class="tabledata">2007</td><td class="tabledata" align="right">595000.00</td></tr><tr><td class="tabledata">2008</td><td class="tabledata" align="right">4000000.00</td></tr><tr><td class="tabledata">2009</td><td class="tabledata" align="right">4630000.00</td></tr><tr><td class="tabledata">2010</td><td class="tabledata" align="right">4680000.00</td></tr></tbody></table></td><td>
</td></tr></tbody></table>
Talk about poison pill. There is no way he stays with them after '07 short of a total redo of his deal.

http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/teamdetail.aspx?team=9&year=2006

He got $3.7m of his signing bonus last year plus what looks like a $250k roster/option bonus. Normally that would've been a 2-tiered SB of which the other $3m or so was due to hit this season but he restructured some of it and gave up the rest. The $10m quoted wasn't all signing bonuses so IMO isn't prorated when he's traded. The pay cut saved Denver $2.6m on this year's cap. I've a distinct funny feeling the Broncos had this trade/cut in the back of their minds when they made him take a paycut thus nulifying the hit they'd take if they got rid of him. Best case scenario is that with him gone he counts just over $3m on this year's cap instead of the $2.5m plus he was on the books for.

[Killericon]

I'm most surprised at why Oakland wanted him.

[Kaylore]

I have some family members that know Warren intimately. I'm just going to say that not all his extra-curricular activities were legal, some of them serious, and that always concerned me. Hopefully he does better in Oakland than he was going to do here....just not when he plays against us.

[elsid13]

Wonder if Faiders are going to cut Sapp now???

[NFLBRONCO]

Oakland love ex broncos

[BroncoBuff]

He was going to the Raiders one way or the other ... they would have first dibs in waivers because they had the worst record in the conference last year. At least we got a pick.

[Atlas]

Warren to the Raiders:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp07/news/story?id=2982669


To all the Warren Homers:

That is how much DEN thought of him. They traded him to a division rival with a better defense already. Get over him. He was a below average starter at DT the last two years who was covered by the back seven to even look decent most plays.

In 2006 he was the best Defensive player on the field not named Champ Bailey. Last year he had two dislocated big toes.

I don't like getting rid of him let alone to the Raiders. Why can't Denver keep him for passing downs and then get rid of him at the end of the season before the draft when his stock will be higher?

Maybe Warren just doesn't want to be here.

[worm]

I have some family members that know Warren intimately. I'm just going to say that not all his extra-curricular activities were legal, some of them serious, and that always concerned me. Hopefully he does better in Oakland than he was going to do here....just not when he plays against us.

Does this post have a point?

I mean, really....why choose now to bring up innuendos and he said, she said stories.

He is gone. Wish him well and leave it at that...or bring up some solid facts on the subject.

Why drag his name through the mud over allegations from your 'unnamed source'? What purpose does that serve?

[CHANGSTER]

To sum up the reasons they needed to unload him and why the trade that Ive read.

He didn't fit the system and/or want to buy into it. He was thought of as a bad influence to some of his team mates.

He was going to be cut if he didn't get traded and oakland was showing interest. If he was cut their was a good chance the faid would have pick him up for free.

Makes sense if most of these reasons are accurate yeah?

[Popcorn Sutton]

http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/teamdetail.aspx?team=9&year=2006

He got $3.7m of his signing bonus last year plus what looks like a $250k roster/option bonus. Normally that would've been a 2-tiered SB of which the other $3m or so was due to hit this season but he restructured some of it and gave up the rest. The $10m quoted wasn't all signing bonuses so IMO isn't prorated when he's traded. The pay cut saved Denver $2.6m on this year's cap. I've a distinct funny feeling the Broncos had this trade/cut in the back of their minds when they made him take a paycut thus nulifying the hit they'd take if they got rid of him. Best case scenario is that with him gone he counts just over $3m on this year's cap instead of the $2.5m plus he was on the books for.

So you thinking that he is off the Broncos books after this season?

[eddie mac]

So you thinking that he is off the Broncos books after this season?

Well when Jake was traded we took the full hit this year so I'm thinking the same with Warren. Unless the CBA rules have changed when a player is traded all of his outstanding prorated signing bonuses hit. It's totally different when a player is cut. More like 1/3 this season and 2/3 next year as the case with Al Wilson, who's on the books for about $3m-$4m next year.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

He's on for next year still. The new CBA changed the rules regarding trades, it's just like cuts now.

[Drek]

http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/teamdetail.aspx?team=9&year=2006

He got $3.7m of his signing bonus last year plus what looks like a $250k roster/option bonus. Normally that would've been a 2-tiered SB of which the other $3m or so was due to hit this season but he restructured some of it and gave up the rest. The $10m quoted wasn't all signing bonuses so IMO isn't prorated when he's traded. The pay cut saved Denver $2.6m on this year's cap. I've a distinct funny feeling the Broncos had this trade/cut in the back of their minds when they made him take a paycut thus nulifying the hit they'd take if they got rid of him. Best case scenario is that with him gone he counts just over $3m on this year's cap instead of the $2.5m plus he was on the books for.

Yeah, thats what I was thinking. Regardless, its pretty damn convenient that he gave up about half of the bonus money he was still owed. His agent was a fool for letting him negotiate that, he's a surefire cut after this season. No one will pay him $4M in base salary.

[SoCalBronco]

Warren will be on their final roster. I figured it'd be a fourth this year at best, but I'll take a fifth, or basically another late fourth round selection considering that it's likely the Raiders will finish in the bottom ten in the league again. Some people are probably mad, but they have to understand the situation. At least we have the opportunity to get something.

The Broncos found a suitor, and this was probably the best we could get. Interesting it's to a division rival, but I'd rather have the chance to get something instead of absolutely nothing for his services.

This will help recoup the loss of a sixth-rounder to St. Louis for Kennedy. As it stands right now, Denver has the following selections.

First Rounder
Second Rounder
Fourth Rounder
Fourth Rounder (via Washington)
Fifth Rounder
Fifth Rounder (via Oakland, conditional)
Seventh Rounder
Seventh Rounder (via Tampa Bay, conditional - escalates to a fourth if he reports.)

Not a bad day two, in a draft that will be loaded with talent. We'll see how it goes. :)

Eh...its still a pretty pathetic haul. How are we going to get into the third round? It is very important that we do so WITHOUT packaging two fours to do it. We still only have 8 total selections. It's not really acceptable. We need at an absolute minimum two more mid round picks for it to be a halfway decent group of picks. I thought I heard TB was going to go after the money, well then do it, force Jake to fork up 7 million right now, force him to at least report. We still have a chance there....maybe early in the next offseason after a break, he will report. Three 4s would be nice, although still not quite sufficient.

I'm sure this has been mentioned already so I will apologize in advance, but what prevents the Raiders from cutting Warren in the final cut before Week 1 and then signing him on Monday morning, Sept 10th if he hasnt been picked up on waivers?

[Kaylore]

Does this post have a point?

I mean, really....why choose now to bring up innuendos and he said, she said stories.

He is gone. Wish him well and leave it at that...or bring up some solid facts on the subject.

Why drag his name through the mud over allegations from your 'unnamed source'? What purpose does that serve?

Because they were things I didn't like about him but didn't feel comfortable saying them with him on the team. Now that he's gone I feel like I can let people know that there is some good in this.

[24champ]

I have some family members that know Warren intimately. I'm just going to say that not all his extra-curricular activities were legal, some of them serious, and that always concerned me. Hopefully he does better in Oakland than he was going to do here....just not when he plays against us.

Does it involve dogs?

[Kaylore]

Does it involve dogs?

No, but I was always nervous it would eventually come back to haunt the team when it was discovered. Maybe Shanahan did catch wind of it and that's part of why they were so aggressive in moving him. Either way, I felt it was a problem waiting to happen. Then again half the players in the league could be like that and we don't even know it.

[RunSilentRunDeep]

Eh...its still a pretty pathetic haul. How are we going to get into the third round? It is very important that we do so WITHOUT packaging two fours to do it. We still only have 8 total selections. It's not really acceptable. We need at an absolute minimum two more mid round picks for it to be a halfway decent group of picks. I thought I heard TB was going to go after the money, well then do it, force Jake to fork up 7 million right now, force him to at least report. We still have a chance there....maybe early in the next offseason after a break, he will report. Three 4s would be nice, although still not quite sufficient.

I'm sure this has been mentioned already so I will apologize in advance, but what prevents the Raiders from cutting Warren in the final cut before Week 1 and then signing him on Monday morning, Sept 10th if he hasnt been picked up on waivers?

I believe Warren has been in the league long enough that he doesn't go through waivers anymore.

[BroncoInferno]

Eh...its still a pretty pathetic haul. How are we going to get into the third round? It is very important that we do so WITHOUT packaging two fours to do it. We still only have 8 total selections. It's not really acceptable. We need at an absolute minimum two more mid round picks for it to be a halfway decent group of picks. I thought I heard TB was going to go after the money, well then do it, force Jake to fork up 7 million right now, force him to at least report. We still have a chance there....maybe early in the next offseason after a break, he will report. Three 4s would be nice, although still not quite sufficient.

I'm sure this has been mentioned already so I will apologize in advance, but what prevents the Raiders from cutting Warren in the final cut before Week 1 and then signing him on Monday morning, Sept 10th if he hasnt been picked up on waivers?

Oh, c'mon. I love the draft, too, but to say 8 picks is "pathetic" when you are only alloted 7 to begin with is nothing short of silly. 8 picks may not be super awesome, but it is pretty solid and not even close to being "pathetic." Seriously SoCal, are you really Jimmy Johnson ;D

[JCMElway]

Yeah, trading a disgruntled player to a divisional rival doesn't make a lot of sense to me. However, in terms of him knowing the broncos defense, I don't think most of the starters have Bates' defense figured out yet, so I doubt Warren will take many secrets with him.

It doesn't actually matter much for a DT in Bates' system. The only instructions they have is "be a big pig and take up 3-4 guys in the middle." Not a ton of strategy there.....

[bpc]

Man i'm just stoked that all three of our picks in trades could be very high picks in their selective rounds. I think that Atlanta, Oakland and TB all could be in the 10 worst teams of the league which looks pretty for our 4th, 5th, and 7th round picks.

[SoCalBronco]

Oh, c'mon. I love the draft, too, but to say 8 picks is "pathetic" when you are only alloted 7 to begin with is nothing short of silly. 8 picks may not be super awesome, but it is pretty solid and not even close to being "pathetic." Seriously SoCal, are you really Jimmy Johnson ;D

It's pretty pathetic given the following, IMO:

1. I think we are going to have alot of needs next year (Bear with me on this, I know you do not subscribe to the "fill your needs" theory), including but not limited to OLB, S (quite possibly 2 quality selections needed here), another DT, another WR, another OL. And these things are priority needs, not 6/7 round project fill the need type of things. Currently we have only 2 day 1 selections. At the top of Day 2 we arent bad, but overall its not a great haul....at all.

2. The class is going to be weak at S, which will be a huge need. So, if we do not have the ammo to make a move (which I am generally not in favor of, but given the situation there with age etc., the team may very well consider), then we'll have a problem.

3. I don't start out with the view that you start with 7 so anything after that is gravy. I know you start with 7, but that's the base. That's not great. It does not provide you with an advantage over anyone else. Everyone is, by and large, (except the Redskins usually) starting out at the gate with the same ammo. The goal here is get as big as an advantage as possible. Here is where you strike gold. This is where you seperate yourself. You can get an infusion of real talent that is a) young with room to grow/upside, b) locked into a long deal (at least in the first couple rounds, plus RFA) and (possibly most importantly) c) cheap (except for the top 8-10 or so, all the rest of the bonuses are pretty small, even at the halfway point of round 1, the bonuses are extremely small, something like 6,7 million in total). Everyone has to play under the same cap, but here is where u can seperate yourself. So you load up, whenever you can. People can say "everyone wants to load up", but thats not what I am talking about here. People don't like to trade in this league unless they rape someone else. That is STUPID. Shanny has said himself several times he has gotten MANY offers in Round 1 to move down, but the deals weren't sweet enough. They don't have to be. Just reasonable. You don't always have to destroy someone in the much maligned hypothetical value chart. People can move down and can stock up, you just have to be willing to forego a premium and that is FINE. See e.g. 2006 draft trade with SF. People underestimate the power of the draft. It is really important. It is really important to have as many picks as possible. Do NOT be happy with just the average. We need an ADVANTAGE over other people. That doesnt set us apart. We need 10-12 picks this year and I don't mean by getting a couple more 7th rounders either. Get back into Round 3, maybe get another 4, and another 5. We have tried to do this, Shanny realizes this, he has tried to get picks for Jake and Al, we got some bad luck on both where we basically got nothing, but I am glad to see he is trying.

Sorry for rambling.

[BroncoInferno]

It's pretty pathetic given the following, IMO:

1. I think we are going to have alot of needs next year (Bear with me on this, I know you do not subscribe to the "fill your needs" theory)

Well, it's not that I don't think you should fill your needs, I just think that you shouldn't take a LB (for example) just for the sake of it if you have a player at another position rated higher. Obviously, if two players are even, or pretty close to even, and one is at a position of greater need, you take that player. Of course, if the highest rated guy is a QB (or another position where a backup isn't likely to see much time sans an injury) and you already have a franchise QB, you pass in that case (hope that made sense).

including but not limited to OLB, S, another DT, another WR, another OL. Currently we have only 2 day 1 selections. At the top of Day 2 we arent bad, but overall its not a great haul....at all.

I'm not sure we are that bad off. It's clear to me that in todays NFL every team, even the eventual Super Bowl winner, has multiple "holes". Just look at the 2006 Colts and tell me I'm wrong. You don't have to fill them all. Indeed, you most likely will not fill them all, even if you end up hoisting the Lombardi Trophy.

2. The class is going to be weak at S, which will be a huge need. So, if we do not have the ammo to make a move (which I am generally not in favor of, but given the situation there with age etc., the team may very well consider), then we'll have a problem.

I never believe in panic moves. I think, particularly in todays NFL, you can always work around a given weakness with success. We may not field the ideal safety tandem in 2008, but I don't think it is going to break the season if we fail to land an immediate impact guy at the position. There are always ways to emphasize strengths and cover weaknesses, and that is especially true in todays NFL. There are no more complete teams.

3. I don't start out with the view that you start with 7 so anything after that is gravy. I know you start with 7, but that's the base. That's not great. It does not provide you with an advantage over anyone else. Everyone is, by and large, (except the Redskins usually) starting out at the gate with the same ammo. The goal here is get as big as an advantage as possible. Here is where you strike gold. This is where you seperate yourself. You can get an infusion of real talent that is a) young with room to grow/upside, b) locked into a long deal (at least in the first couple rounds, plus RFA) and (possibly most importantly) c) cheap (except for the top 8-10 or so, all the rest of the bonuses are pretty small, even at the halfway point of round 1, the bonuses are extremely small, something like 6,7 million in total). Everyone has to play under the same cap, but here is where u can seperate yourself. So you load up, whenever you can. People can say "everyone wants to load up", but thats not what I am talking about here. People don't like to trade in this league unless they rape someone else. That is STUPID. Shanny has said himself several times he has gotten MANY offers in Round 1 to move down, but the deals weren't sweet enough. They don't have to be. Just reasonable. You don't always have to destroy someone in the much maligned hypothetical value chart. People can move down and can stock up, you just have to be willing to forego a premium and that is FINE. People underestimate the power of the draft. It is really important. It is really important to have as many picks as possible. Do NOT be happy with just the average. We need an ADVANTAGE over other people. That doesnt set us apart. We need 10-12 picks this year and I don't mean by getting a couple more 7th rounders either. Get back into Round 3, maybe get another 4, and another 5. We have tried to do this, Shanny realizes this, he has tried to get picks for Jake and Al, we got some bad luck on both where we basically got nothing, but I am glad to see he is trying.

I don't see the needs as so great that we'll need 10-12 picks. You are awesome at analyzing the team and its needs, but sometimes I think you overanalyze. If put into the context of other top contenders, I think you'll see that we favor pretty well. I agree the draft is important, but I don't buy into the Johnson strategy of having 8000 picks. I believe in trusting your board and making quality picks, as best as you are able to swing it. That is why I loved this past draft. Only four picks, but we got most of the guys we targeted and had rated high on the board. I'd rather do that than miss out on targeted guys in order to have that extra 3rd rounder, who odds say has about a 25% chance or maybe worse of ever being a useful player. I think todays NFL is about having as many playmakers as you can find, regardless of position. Constructing a complete team and trying fill every hole along the way is going to be ultimately fruitless and really counterproductive.

Sorry for rambling.

No apology needed, brother. Your posts are always well thought out and I love reading them, even if I don't agree :thumbsup:

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Now all we need from Kaylore is a post proclaiming "Gerard Warren is going to do more to help the Broncos win the AFC West this year than ever before."

[bcbronc]

biggest problem with Warren has always been his motivation. I'm pretty sure that's not going to be a problem this season when we play the raiders.

I don't like this deal at all. if Culpepper can be half the player he was the season before he hurt his knee, the faid might very well be in the thick of things when it comes to the AFC west. :raidersux

[Kaylore]

I agree with BI. SoCal is right in that it's better to build through the draft than in free agenct. However, I think SoCal has always overvalued the draft specifically with having a lot of picks. I think it's more important to get the right players than more players. I know that some would argue you can use that same acumen in choosing many pics as you can with few, but there are 32 other teams picking that might have a different idea than you do (or the same idea but be in front of you!). So I agree that I'd rather use picks to move up and get the our targeted guys rather than just sit horde picks and shotgun the draft hoping some of them workout.

[SoCalBronco]

I agree with BI. SoCal is right in that it's better to build through the draft than in free agenct. However, I think SoCal has always overvalued the draft specifically with having a lot of picks. I think it's more important to get the right players than more players. I know that some would argue you can use that same acumen in choosing many pics as you can with few, but there are 32 other teams picking that might have a different idea than you do (or the same idea but be in front of you!). So I agree that I'd rather use picks to move up and get the our targeted guys rather than just sit horde picks and shotgun the draft hoping some of them workout.

There is no such thing as overvaluing the draft. :)
I dont think anyone is arguing that by trying to hoard you are going to just going to shotgun the draft, we're still trying to make a quality pick at every turn, its not like someone is saying, ok scouts, you guys dont have to work as hard now, everyone is still working just as hard and trying to spend as much time as possible to make sure every pick turns out to be the right player for you.....even though we know at the end of the day that just due to sheer probability, every one will not be a good one.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

even though we know at the end of the day that just due to sheer probability, every one will not be a good one.

Herm, is that you?

[ZONA]

As usual, I totally agree with your post, Req. I'm thrilled to get what is likely a high 5th rounder.

Nice touch on the HIGH part.........hehehehe. So true, so true.

[Requiem]

I don't have a whole lot of time to respond SoCal, I have class in seven hours and I've been having 12 hour days at work for the past week so bear with me.

I don't think eight picks is really a pathetic haul, I really think us not having a third rounder is really a "downer" to both mine and your overall outlook on the picks we currently have. You know that I enjoy having a lot of picks, but this past draft is living proof that the Broncos are willing to do whatever it takes to get the guys they want who they think can help them win now and in the future.

I don't necessarily agree with giving up all those picks just to find your guys (unless it's a worthy target), but I'm also not against moving up.

There will be other moves made. Other players at the end of the year could become bait and I wouldn't be surprised if the Broncos added another selection in the top four rounds via trade before the draft rolls around. I'm not sure really what to make of your assesment on Al and Jake, and that's showing Shanahan's newly brightened eyes approach to the draft buy having a lot of selections.

Perhaps you're right though, perhaps he wanted to deal those players away for picks this past year in order to get the guys he wanted. It's sad to see that a fourth rounder last year, and a third were washed away for "petty" (my belief) reasons. Those are just two more players we could have had, or two more picks that could have been packaged to get a better player on the board. Looking at how those two rounds came out, it'd of been nice to have had both the respective selections from Tampa Bay and New York. Real damn nice.

Don't get depressed over it though. Hopefully the five will stick with us and Warren will make the team.

It's been since the 2004 Draft where we were really blessed with a good amount of picks, but even when we had those choices, we messed up pretty badly. That's where I think Kaylore does make a lot of sense in talking about getting the players we actually want, rather than settling for the "potential gems" that are around on Day 2.

I'm not against moving up with those selections back into day one or around, but I'd really like to keep them, just because I think with this class, those picks will be of some real value.

You can get a guy like Amir Pinnix, Jeremy Zuttah, BJ Raji, etc. around those selections. . .

I'm spent, time for ravioli and bed.

I'm excited for this class a lot, which is really why I wish we had a third-rounder. However, I'd really like to keep our two fourths and fifths because I think there's going to be a lot of quality at several positions (OL, WR, RB, DT) that could be of use sometime around there. Perhaps even safety, even in a weak class. You can usually find some good players at that time.

[baja]

I don't understand your post. First, you say that you don't understand the trade. Then you say that, if we cut him, the Faid would've snatched him up because nobody else wanted him. So why don't you understand the concept of getting something where they could've easily cut him and gotten nothing? If the end result is him going to the Faid regardless, why not at least get the draft pick in return?

I meant from the Raiders point of view.

[baja]

in all honesty, i think the Skins would have been the first to snatch him up if he had been released.

I think Synder was calling Shannys hand, and he failed.

Doesn't the team with the worst record the previous season get first shot at the waver wire?

[elsid13]

Doesn't the team with the worst record the previous season get first shot at the waver wire?

When he cut, he a free agent.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=reese_floyd&id=2870773

CBA

Section 1. Release:
(a) Whenever a player who has finished the season in which his fourth year of credited service has been earned under the Bert Bell/Pete Rozelle Plan is placed on waivers between February 1 and the trading deadline,
his contract will be considered terminated and the player will be completely free at any time thereafter to negotiate and sign a Player Contract with any Club, and any Club shall be completely free to negotiate and sign
a Player Contract with such player, without penalty or restriction, including, but not limited to, Draft ChoiceCompensation between Clubs or First Refusal Rights of any kind, or any signing period. If the waivers occur
after that time, the player’s Player Contract will be subject to the waiver system and may be awarded to a claiming Club. However, if such player is claimed and awarded, he shall have the option to declare himself an
Unrestricted Free Agent at the end of the League Year in question if he has a no-trade clause in his Player Contract. If such player does not have a no-trade clause and the Player Contract being awarded through waivers
covers more than one additional season, the player shall have the right to declare himself an Unrestricted Free Agent as set forth above at the end of the League Year following the League Year in which he is waived and
awarded.

(b) Whenever a player who has finished less than the season in which his fourth year of credited service
has been earned under the Bert Bell/Pete Rozelle Plan is placed on waivers, the player’s Player Contract will be
subject to the waiver system and may be awarded to a claiming Club.

[baja]

Thanks Elsid

I predict the Raiders will get the best of us with this trade.