Norv - what makes Dolts think he's not Raider garbage?

[ZONA]

I got thinking about this more and more today and Norv absolutely sucked coaching the Raiders. Why does San Diego think he's all of a sudden a big time HC prospect? I just don't understand it. I mean, if Al Davis hires you in the first place, you must not all that good (Gruden being the best of the class of late, and even he is sorta showing no signs of genious - afterall, it was Dungees team that he won the SB with - and now that Dungee has the Colts at the top, it shows he really did know his stuff and built that Tampa team to win it all, not Gruden).

So WTF - what the hell does Norv have to offer? The more I think about it, the more insane it sounds to me. The Bolts were very close to getting over that hump and now they can Shotty and hire NORV????????????????

Frickin Crazy man.

[bronco610]

Smith doesnt care about the team as long as he controls everything is all that matters!!

[DukeWoody]

But but but,Norv was their OC in 2001, and he installed the offense they have run to this day...He he he, just needs another chance to prove himself,thats all,no really...
I would say this hireing was a desperation move, as there were no better puppets for Smith to promote at the time,due to his pure ignorance in the matter..
Norv has proven to be an above average play caller and QB coach,but as a HC he has proven to be a failure,and i would say things will amount to the same this time around aswell...He just doesn't have the IT facter when it comes to running the show...
The power monger Smith will use Norv as the fall guy at the first signs of struggle and i think that will be the last time you'll see Norv as a HC again...
Oh,and,don't forget greacy Al hired and fired Shanahan as well, so who knows what goes on in that senile, demented head of his...

[Atlas]

Can you imagine all the jokes Chugger was cracking at Norvs expense when he was with Oakland? Little did they know that the joke was going to be on them. Too funny.

[MechanicalBull]

This is what I never get with any sport. Why do the same coaches get hired again and again. Norv's head coaching record is 58-82-1 (.415 winning%). I know he has prior experience in SD but still.

[gunns]

There are just some coaches that are excellent at coordinator positions and suck at head coach. So far Norv has proven he's one. 6 years of mediocrity in Washington, finally making the playoffs in the 6th and below mediocrity in Oakland. I'm sure the Charger fans are saying "well, it was Oakland", and they have a point. But Gruden proved it could be done and what Turner produced was awful. The Chargers have a very good team put together this year. We'll see if Turner can manager anything with it.

[Atwater His Ass]

I would think most sane Charger fans are going to hope the shear talent they have on the team will overcome the Norv factor.

I honestly don't see why the whole coaching debacle in San Diego isn't more news worthy. It's not every off-season that a contending team loses their HC, OC and DC. And the sloppy way in which it was all handled only adds to the fire.

I see SD probably winning the West again mostly because I don't think Denver is quite there yet and no one else is even close, but I'd be surprised if they make any sort of playoff push at all.

[MechanicalBull]

There are just some coaches that are excellent at coordinator positions and suck at head coach. So far Norv has proven he's one. 6 years of mediocrity in Washington, finally making the playoffs in the 6th and below mediocrity in Oakland. I'm sure the Charger fans are saying "well, it was Oakland", and they have a point. But Gruden proved it could be done and what Turner produced was awful. The Chargers have a very good team put together this year. We'll see if Turner can manager anything with it.

I agree with that but I would give Norv the benefit of doubt if he showed a little bit of improvement in Oakland but he didn't. It was nearly impossible to turn the Raiders into a great team in just two years but he didn't even slightly turn the team around. I was just checking team stats for 2004(Norv's first year as Oak. head coach) and Amos Zereoue was the leading rusher with 112 carries and 425 yds. That is horrible.

Side note about Zereoue he played high school ball 5 minutes from me and played against my high school. He tore it up in high school but has done nothing in the NFL.

[Drek]

I think most chargers fans are hoping Norv doesn't play the HC role and instead just works with Rivers and gameplans the offense. They have some good defensive minds still, Ron Rivera as LB coach is an outlandish steal that I wish we had swooped in on ourselves, so as long as Norv stays in a split duties role they'll be fine.

The real issues I see arrising is either a) Norv tries to be the HC, tinkering with all aspects of the team, b) the players fail to police themselves because lets face it, they have to when Norv is running the ship or c) animosity develops between the players and coaches for various reasons.

Early losses could serve as a major catalyst for any of this, conversely getting off to a hot start will ease the transition. I said it earlier this week, everyone predicting the coaching change to make this a 9 or 10 win team is fooling themselves. Its boom or bust in SD. Either it all clicks and the team keeps playing like they did last regular season which will make them a shoe in for a 12-14 win season, or it'll all fall apart and they'll be back to where they were in '05, the best non-playoff team the league has ever seen losing tons of close games.

Now from our perspective its really tough to choose which end result you'd prefer. I think we made some huge additions this off-season and now match up with them very well from a talent standpoint. Assuming everyone on both sides is healthy I think we could go toe to toe with them for many years to come. But they'll have Norv Turner as their HC, not exactly a big game coach, while we'll have Mike Shanahan, arguably one of the best coaches in the league today if not in history. Over the long haul I'd say thats advantage us, despite the fact that we'll probably have an epic divisional rivalry for the better part of a decade.

If they flop though Turner is out, the team gets a top 20 draft pick which A.J. Smith does not have a history of wasting, and will go out and find a new HC who might actually be good. The talent level would still be there, plus another year of high draft picks, and it'd be real unsettling to face them twice a year and vie for a playoff spot if Pete Caroll, Charlie Wiess, Urban Meyer, or some other elite collegiate or positional coach were to take over the team.

[Kaylore]

I would think most sane Charger fans are going to hope the shear talent they have on the team will overcome the Norv factor.

I honestly don't see why the whole coaching debacle in San Diego isn't more news worthy. It's not every off-season that a contending team loses their HC, OC and DC. And the sloppy way in which it was all handled only adds to the fire.

I see SD probably winning the West again mostly because I don't think Denver is quite there yet and no one else is even close, but I'd be surprised if they make any sort of playoff push at all.
I agree with just about everything you said.

They didn't just lose Schottenheimer and get Norv, they lost both coordinators and a position coach and then they got Norv. I'm sorry, but that's not small change.

I could see Denver winning the west, still. The situation reminds me a lot of what happened at the end of '05. One team was on fire and won the west handily and another couldn't get to ten wins by winning at home in the last game to a team that didn't even care if they won or not. Then in the offseason the 9-7 team lets their older QB go and puts everything in their young first round pick. Sound familiar?

I think of a couple of our draft picks work out this year, our special teams come together and one of the receivers work out that we have a good chance to win the west.

With the coaching changes, a first place schedule, and the press telling them how good they are, don't be surprised to see the Chargers believe their own hype and the team take a step back this year.

[Requiem]

I remember watching Baseball Tonight not to long ago and they had LT on, and he said that he's not worried about the criticism that Turner is getting because they're running the same offensive plans he had while he was a coordinator there, so he doesn't think much will change.

We'll see though.

[boltaneer]

Norv is AJ's "puppet" but Norv was also the best choice to keep the offense intact and help develop Rivers. Clarence Shelmon is the "offensive coordinator" by title, but for all intents and purposes, it's Norv.

This has been brought up many times but there's nothing San Diego could have done to prevent Cameron and Phillips from interviewing for head coaching positions. Yes, they could have kept Cameron had they fired Marty immediately but that was a difficult situation, coming off a 14-2 season. The plan was to go with Marty at HC, Wade at DC and Shelmon as OC. Not many people thought Wade had a serious shot at becoming Dallas' head coach at first but when he did get it, that left San Diego in big trouble because they were now without both assistants.

I've said this before. I'm not thrilled with Norv as the head coach. But I don't think the team needed an rookie head coach, which was what the pool of candidates mostly were. No, Cowher wasn't coming back this year. No, Pete Carroll doesn't want to leave USC and he would be just as big of a question mark as Norv. There was speculation about Mariucci. He runs a west coast offense so that wouldn't have made any sense. The best choices out there were Norv and Wade because they're both familiar with the systems run here. Norv has a bad track record but he has coached some awful teams. Wade has a better record but hasn't been as successful as Norv in the playoffs. Neither one seems like a stellar pick.

IMO, the issue isn't really with Norv. He'll be able to keep this offense going, or even improve it more. The key is with Ted Cotrell and the defense. He's been inconsistent as defensive coordinator but the theory is that he's been put in situations where he couldn't run his defense or had poor personnel to fit his schemes. I haven't followed him that closely so I won't defend him but the one thing I've heard that I like is that he plans to be more aggressive with the defense. Wade liked to play a bend but don't break defense. And I've heard that Rivera is already doing good things with the linebackers here so there are some positives coming out from the defensive side.

Anyway, yes, the theory here is that this team has the talent for Norv to succeed with despite his track record. But people would be saying the same thing, whether it is Wade or Norv. People would have questions about inexperience had they hired Cameron, Rivera, Rex Ryan or any other candidate with no prior head coaching experience.

[Xenos]

I got thinking about this more and more today and Norv absolutely sucked coaching the Raiders. Why does San Diego think he's all of a sudden a big time HC prospect? I just don't understand it. I mean, if Al Davis hires you in the first place, you must not all that good (Gruden being the best of the class of late, and even he is sorta showing no signs of genious - afterall, it was Dungees team that he won the SB with - and now that Dungee has the Colts at the top, it shows he really did know his stuff and built that Tampa team to win it all, not Gruden).

So WTF - what the hell does Norv have to offer? The more I think about it, the more insane it sounds to me. The Bolts were very close to getting over that hump and now they can Shotty and hire NORV????????????????
Frickin Crazy man.

The problem was that Marty had become nothing more than a glorified cheerleader on game day in 2006. He was there during the week preparation but he essentially disappeared this offseason during game day. Everything was handled by Cam and Wade.
The mistake was in not firing Marty right away and hiring one of the coordinators. But it worked out alright because as good as Cam is, Norv is the guy who established this offense and the guy who can implement more things into it. So in addition to there being no drop off in offense, Norv can also help Rivers develop even more and become an even better player. That's what he has to offer this team.

Despite his losing record, Norv has never taken over a team and made them worst. In fact he's actually improved their record and offense. He took over a 4-12 Redskins that had lost most of its key players and had aging veterans for the most part, and managed to churn several winning seasons with them. He also took over a 4-12 Raider team and improved them (offensively at least). Of course, it was the same situation with them as it was with the Redskins, only with the added predicament of Al Davis instead.

From all the reports, Norv is meshing well with the offensive players, and that they are relieved that the system is still the same, and also amazed at the new wrinkles that he's added to utilize key guys like Gates.

The main drop could come from the defense since Cottrell took over for Wade. If Cottrell can prove to be more aggressive than Wade, especially on third down, there will be no drop off at all.

Lots of ifs and possibilities but that's what the offseason is for.

[Xenos]

I agree with just about everything you said.

They didn't just lose Schottenheimer and get Norv, they lost both coordinators and a position coach and then they got Norv. I'm sorry, but that's not small change.

I could see Denver winning the west, still. The situation reminds me a lot of what happened at the end of '05. One team was on fire and won the west handily and another couldn't get to ten wins by winning at home in the last game to a team that didn't even care if they won or not. Then in the offseason the 9-7 team lets their older QB go and puts everything in their young first round pick. Sound familiar?

I think of a couple of our draft picks work out this year, our special teams come together and one of the receivers work out that we have a good chance to win the west.

With the coaching changes, a first place schedule, and the press telling them how good they are, don't be surprised to see the Chargers believe their own hype and the team take a step back this year.

First of all, if they do believe in their hype then they have learned nothing from the NE game last season and might as well throw in the towel now.
Second, our first place schedule differs from you guys by two games, and most of the hard games come in the first 6 weeks. If we take care of business during that period, then the so called first place schedules becomes more bearable.

[Xenos]

I would think most sane Charger fans are going to hope the shear talent they have on the team will overcome the Norv factor.

I honestly don't see why the whole coaching debacle in San Diego isn't more news worthy. It's not every off-season that a contending team loses their HC, OC and DC. And the sloppy way in which it was all handled only adds to the fire.
I see SD probably winning the West again mostly because I don't think Denver is quite there yet and no one else is even close, but I'd be surprised if they make any sort of playoff push at all.

It's because it handled in the correct manner despite the sloppy way it was originally done. The players, in particular, handled themselves well and didn't cause a scene. And because of what they did, there were no headlines, and everyone could just concentrate on meshing with the new coaches.

[Xenos]

There are just some coaches that are excellent at coordinator positions and suck at head coach. So far Norv has proven he's one. 6 years of mediocrity in Washington, finally making the playoffs in the 6th and below mediocrity in Oakland. I'm sure the Charger fans are saying "well, it was Oakland", and they have a point. But Gruden proved it could be done and what Turner produced was awful. The Chargers have a very good team put together this year. We'll see if Turner can manager anything with it.
Gruden also had a more talented and young team when he was the Raider's head coach. Look how well he's doing in Tampa Bay now that he lost most of his key players to FA and have aging veterans that no longer are as good as they once were.

[Inkana7]

The problem was that Marty had become nothing more than a glorified cheerleader on game day in 2006. He was there during th week preparation but he essentially disappeared this offseason during game day. Everything was handled by Cam and Wade.


And yet from what I understand, this is exactly what you all expect Norv to be. Just a guy to oversee all the talent San Diego has. And if everything was handled by Cam and Wade, I'd say they did a pretty good job, going 14-2 and all. So wouldn't their loss hurt the most?

I just don't understand the "Marty sucked, he was just a cheerleader. Oh, but Norv won't do anything." mindset.

[Xenos]

This is what I never get with any sport. Why do the same coaches get hired again and again. Norv's head coaching record is 58-82-1 (.415 winning%). I know he has prior experience in SD but still.

I don't know. I guess certain teams see potential in certain coaches and believe that they have the talent to help that coach. I mean why the hell would someone like Belichick get hired by NE after his previous history with Cleveland? I mean the guy had 5 seasons to turn around the Browns, a losing record overall (36-44), ended up he pissing off many Browns fan especially with the Bernie Kosar fiasco, and has no motivation skill. What did they see to hire him?

[Xenos]

And yet from what I understand, this is exactly what you all expect Norv to be. Just a guy to oversee all the talent San Diego has. And if everything was handled by Cam and Wade, I'd say they did a pretty good job, going 14-2 and all. So wouldn't their loss hurt the most?

I just don't understand the "Marty sucked, he was just a cheerleader. Oh, but Norv won't do anything." mindset.

Where the heck did you get that from? Did you decide to ignore the rest of my post for some reason?
Norv is expected to make this offense even better. Heck, all the reports from minicamp and the players have stated that he was much more hands on with the players than Marty ever was, showing them what they should and should not be doing. He's essentially Cameron's replacement, which is why we hired him.

[400HZ]

And yet from what I understand, this is exactly what you all expect Norv to be. Just a guy to oversee all the talent San Diego has. And if everything was handled by Cam and Wade, I'd say they did a pretty good job, going 14-2 and all. So wouldn't their loss hurt the most?

I just don't understand the "Marty sucked, he was just a cheerleader. Oh, but Norv won't do anything." mindset.

As Xenos said, Norval is going to be the de facto offensive coordinator.

[Inkana7]

Where the heck did you get that from? Did you decide to ignore the rest of my post for some reason?
Norv is expected to make this offense even better. Heck, all the reports from minicamp and the players have stated that he was much more hands on with the players than Marty ever was, showing them what they should and should not be doing. He's essentially Cameron's replacement, which is why we hired him.

That's what I've gotten from the Charger fans here at the Mane. They think that head coach doesn't matter because Marty didn't do anything. Norv just has to oversee the team and it'll win by itself.

[Xenos]

Can you imagine all the jokes Chugger was cracking at Norvs expense when he was with Oakland? Little did they know that the joke was going to be on them. Too funny.

Of course we were making fun of him then. He was a freaking Raider!!! Why the hell would we care about him when it didn't matter to us? You guys don't care about anyone from division teams, but as soon as someone from a division team becomes a Denver Bronco, then excuses start flying off the radar. It's the nature of the beast because that's who we are in general. Did you guys honestly care about Shannahan when he was the HC of the Raiders?

[400HZ]

That's what I've gotten from the Charger fans here at the Mane. They think that head coach doesn't matter because Marty didn't do anything. Norv just has to oversee the team and it'll win by itself.

That's more what the media is saying. I would think there had been enough "Norv sucks" threads on here for you to figure out what the SD fan base wants to happen coaching-wise.

[Xenos]

That's what I've gotten from the Charger fans here at the Mane. They think that head coach doesn't matter because Marty didn't do anything. Norv just has to oversee the team and it'll win by itself.

Well then whoever those so called Chargers fan are, they are wrong. Or you're misinterpretating what they are saying. If it was just about having someone overlooking the team and "all this talent" then we would have kept Marty. Norv isn't here to just oversee the team and let it win by itself.

Don't get me wrong, a HC is important, but not as important as the talent surrounding him over the years. He gets too much credit and too much blame most of the time because of this issue. Of course, every so often you can get a coach that is that good, but most of the time you don't and lot of the eventual success comes from the talent and players. Look at George Siefert and Barry Switzer. They both inherited incredibly talented teams and they both were able to do something with it. But they'll never be looked at as great coaches. Norv doesn't have to be a Shannahan or a Belichick. He just has to pull off a Siefert or Switzer.

[400HZ]

I don't entirely agree with the Siefert/Switzer comparison. Yes, it shows that a mediocre head coach can win a SB with a loaded team, but that's oversimplying things. Marty isn't a Walsh or Jimmah caliber coach.

Norv has something to prove this year, just like everybody on the team has something to prove this year. From an X's and O's standpoint, we couldn't have done much better in getting Norv to run the offense. He designed the system that Cam ran, and the system works great. Norv isn't going to ruin his own system, and he could very well improve it.

Defensively, Ted Cotrell is a Wade Phillips disiple and should be able to adequetly run the Phillips system. I was real concerned at first since Cotrell hasn't coached in a while, so hiring Ron Rivera was huge. Having a coach on staff who coordinated a top defense last year should alleviate a lot of problems. However, Wade Phillips is without question a top DC in this league, so defense is still a concern this year.

My main concern next year will be bouncing back from after a tough loss. Marty wasn't worth much from an X's and O's standpoint, but whatever he did during the week seemed to get the player's heads in the right place (up until the playoffs, anyways.) The Chargers have good leadership in the ranks with guys like LT, Rivers, Neal, Jamal Williams, etc. Actually, I would disagree up to a point that Norv Turner really is a hands-off coach, because the players are saying otherwise. Either way, a hands-off coach CAN win Superbowls. Look at last year - Lovie Smith and Tony Dungy - both hands-off type coaches.

[BroncoBuff]

Norv must interview well.




And of course Troy put in a call on his behalf.

[Paladin]

I wasted 30 seconds on this thread. The point is: WGF about Sandy Eggo until the Broncos play them? I hope the sparkies implode.

[400HZ]

I wasted 30 seconds on this thread. The point is: WGF about Sandy Eggo until the Broncos play them? I hope the sparkies implode.

So the title of the thread didn't clue you in to what it might be about?

[boltaneer]

I don't entirely agree with the Siefert/Switzer comparison. Yes, it shows that a mediocre head coach can win a SB with a loaded team, but that's oversimplying things. Marty isn't a Walsh or Jimmah caliber coach.

Norv has something to prove this year, just like everybody on the team has something to prove this year. From an X's and O's standpoint, we couldn't have done much better in getting Norv to run the offense. He designed the system that Cam ran, and the system works great. Norv isn't going to ruin his own system, and he could very well improve it.

Defensively, Ted Cotrell is a Wade Phillips disiple and should be able to adequetly run the Phillips system. I was real concerned at first since Cotrell hasn't coached in a while, so hiring Ron Rivera was huge. Having a coach on staff who coordinated a top defense last year should alleviate a lot of problems. However, Wade Phillips is without question a top DC in this league, so defense is still a concern this year.

My main concern next year will be bouncing back from after a tough loss. Marty wasn't worth much from an X's and O's standpoint, but whatever he did during the week seemed to get the player's heads in the right place (up until the playoffs, anyways.) The Chargers have good leadership in the ranks with guys like LT, Rivers, Neal, Jamal Williams, etc. Actually, I would disagree up to a point that Norv Turner really is a hands-off coach, because the players are saying otherwise. Either way, a hands-off coach CAN win Superbowls. Look at last year - Lovie Smith and Tony Dungy - both hands-off type coaches.

Very well said.

Norv is NOT going to be the "cheerleader" that Marty was. He'll be running the offense.

I don't mean to underestimate the importance of a good head coach though. Norv needs to keep the team under control and have them believe in him. Marty deserves a ton of credit for how he improved this team. He's a great teacher and motivator, which are important things for a head coach to have. But we've all seen him on the sidelines during Charger games. The majority of the time, he had his headset off and is letting his coaches run the show. You guys laugh about how he is often referred to as a "glorified cheerleader" but it was true.

I always think back to one of the "Game of the Week" shows they had on NFL Network a couple of years back. I believe it was a game against the Colts and I believe it was Wayne Nunnley (DL coach) giving instructions to the defensive line on the sideline. Jamal Williams was pointing out something he noticed about the Colt's offensive line to Nunnley and Marty comes over with his "One play at a time!" chant, which they weren't paying attention to because they were listening to what Nunnley and Jamal were talking about. Actually, I think Igor or one of the guys glanced over at Marty for a second and then turned his attention back to what the others were saying.

It really struck me there about how underrated the position coaches are sometimes. They're the ones doing all the grunt work, getting the players ready to go back on the field and making adjustments. In addition, though it wasn't an issue of disrespect, it was kind of sad to see the players ignoring Marty there.

[400HZ]

From the North County Times:
http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2007/07/27/sports/scholfield/23_14_537_26_07.txt

I thought it was a very interesting take from a player. He really blasts Cameron.

"We are going to be crisp this year, this year, real crisp," Hardwick said. "I don't think you'll see as many lulls; we know we can take control of a game."

Hardwick had issues with former offensive coordinator Cam Cameron. Hardwick is an old-school lineman who prefers to run right at opponents and beat them down. Cameron liked to run a few gadget plays and get everyone involved in the offense.

"Instead of going after people, we were worried about, heck, I don't know," Hardwick said. "There was just too much going on. If we just go after people's throats, we would be better off."

Was that a case of an offensive coordinator trying to make sure other teams noticed what he was doing so he could get a head coaching job?

"Yeah," Hardwick said.

That's a pretty bold statement, but Hardwick is not shy in his opinions.

Cameron, incidentally, is now the head coach of the Miami Dolphins.

The Chargers, meanwhile, are still smarting from a 24-21 playoff loss to the Patriots on Jan. 14.

When it was mentioned to Hardwick that Tomlinson touched the ball nine times in the second half of that game after getting it 15 times in the first half, he frowned.

"That's a sore subject," Hardwick said. "We were all a little frustrated, very frustrated. On the first play of the game, a basic play that is not one of our best plays, we got 11 yards from scrimmage. You might think we could run the ball all day."

Hardwick said the problem was not with former head coach Marty Schottenheimer.

"Marty didn't ever call any plays," Hardwick said. "I think he did a great job here. I've heard things about him in the past, but that wasn't his way here. He was pretty loose and flexible."

So what went wrong against New England?

"I think we weren't mature enough to handle being in the position we were in, which was leading,'' he said. "And I tell you what, they did a lot of little things that distracted us from our game and got us off course. We couldn't regain our composure."

Hardwick thinks that Turner is a good fit for the veteran team. The offense the Chargers run is the one Turner installed when he was the offensive coordinator here in 2001.

"You should hear some of the corrections being made out here," Hardwick said as he watched rookies go through practice on Thursday. "I mean, he picks up on a lot of small things that I've never heard before.

"He can tell when a receiver is drifting on a route or when a receiver is making his break a yard too early. I'm real impressed with him so far."

[boltaneer]

From the North County Times:
http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2007/07/27/sports/scholfield/23_14_537_26_07.txt

I thought it was a very interesting take from a player. He really blasts Cameron.

There was an article on cbssportsline.com maybe a month ago about a rift between Cameron and McCardell last year.

McCardell basically said he didn't get a lot of playing time later in the season and in the playoffs because of it.

Vincent Jackson (and Eric Parker) couldn't handle the pressure in the playoffs last year. IMO, benching McCardell contributed to the loss. I'm not going to lay all the blame on Cameron there because a number of players screwed up that day but that was a very poor decision if what McCardell said was true.

Cameron is a very good OC but I don't think we'll miss a beat with Norv. He's an excellent play caller as well. Like I said before, the key is how the defense performs.

[DarkHorse30]

it all boils down to how healthy LT can be. He's going into his 7th season and has seen a lot of wear; in a league that uses up RBs pretty fast.

For as much as Denver fans worry about the Broncos WR situtation, SD's has more worries than we do. Sure Jackson was a good rook, but Parker had zero TDs last season; and their best vet-McCardell signed with Texas. Can you say growing pains?

Overall, it's funny to me that the writers give SD a pass (in spite of losing their 3 best coaches on a 14-2 team) and keeps putting them in the top 5 next year. Wade will probably stuggle in Dallas, but he is/was a great DC. Marty may have had perennial problems in the playoffs, but was a better HC than Turner ever was. Cameron's offense was #4 in the NFL.

[cmhargrove]

There was an article on cbssportsline.com maybe a month ago about a rift between Cameron and McCardell last year.

McCardell basically said he didn't get a lot of playing time later in the season and in the playoffs because of it.

Vincent Jackson (and Eric Parker) couldn't handle the pressure in the playoffs last year. IMO, benching McCardell contributed to the loss. I'm not going to lay all the blame on Cameron there because a number of players screwed up that day but that was a very poor decision if what McCardell said was true.

Cameron is a very good OC but I don't think we'll miss a beat with Norv. He's an excellent play caller as well. Like I said before, the key is how the defense performs.

I think if I were a Chargers fan, the receiving corps would worry me more than the HC change. Of course, Denver is not without it's question marks at receiver, but we have a few pro-bowler calibers guys at least in the mix with our younger guys.

I think Norv sucked with the Raiders because the Raiders sucked. He did fine with San Fran as they brought in new talent. We'll see if he can use one of the league's most talented rosters this year.

[Xenos]

it all boils down to how healthy LT can be. He's going into his 7th season and has seen a lot of wear; in a league that uses up RBs pretty fast.
For as much as Denver fans worry about the Broncos WR situtation, SD's has more worries than we do. Sure Jackson was a good rook, but Parker had zero TDs last season; and their best vet-McCardell signed with Texas. Can you say growing pains?

Overall, it's funny to me that the writers give SD a pass (in spite of losing their 3 best coaches on a 14-2 team) and keeps putting them in the top 5 next year. Wade will probably stuggle in Dallas, but he is/was a great DC. Marty may have had perennial problems in the playoffs, but was a better HC than Turner ever was. Cameron's offense was #4 in the NFL.

If you look over LT's long career, you'll notice that he has only missed one game. One of the things about LT is that he does a good job of keeping the wear and tear from affecting him as much due to his running style. He doesn't take the brute force approach like Larry Johnson does, and knows when to run out of bounds like his idol Smith.
He also shed some unnecessary pounds last year which was one of the reasons why he was more durable compared to 2004 and 2005. Having Michael Turner in more as a breather was also one reason why he will be able to avoid a lot of the unnecessary wear and tear.

About the wide receiver position. There are several reasons for that. One was that a lot of them kept getting injured and so it was difficult for them to accrue receptions compared to someone like Gates or LT. Also both Parker and McCardell were taken out during red zone situations simply because they lack the height advantage of both Jackson, Gates, and Floyd.

Oh and Keenan was old and injured often so of course he's going to be cut when there's younger and more talented players on the squad now. I would have liked to keep him as a veteran presence but you can't have them all.

[Jason in LA]

The Chargers were stuck picking Norv. If they had let Marty go at the end of the season they would have had some good coaches to pick from. Probably their OC or DC who both left. The Chargers are in trouble with Norv as the HC. There is no way they would have picked him if they had a good pool to pick from. Kind of like the Raiders had to do when they hired Norv.

[boltaneer]

A few things:

The only game LT missed was because he was "benched" to rest up for the playoffs. Freak injuries are always possible but he's one of the best in knowing how to take care of himself/avoiding big hits. Very smart in that department.

Jackson still did pretty good last year but still has a lot of things to work on, such as attacking the ball at the highest point, stop body catching passes, etc.

Parker is the veteran presence for the WR corps, which is fine. He just can't repeat his horrible performance in the playoffs last year again. Runs great routes, good possession receiver but I think he's best fit for the slot.

Malcom Floyd is developing slowly but surely and could unseat Parker as the number two receiver this year. He must be learning from Gates because he uses his body well, just like him. He attacks the ball. Jackson needs to do this.

Craig Davis is a rookie and I'm not counting on him much to contribute outside of the return game. If he does, that's just a bonus. But I'm really intrigued by him. He gets great seperation and has good deep speed, something the other recievers are lacking. I think he could be a player teams will regret passing on.

But as long as Gates is on the team, he'll always be the number one receiver and target. The other guys appear to have the skill sets to compliment Gates well. I think Norv will find a way to play to all of their strengths.

[400HZ]

I think if I were a Chargers fan, the receiving corps would worry me more than the HC change. Of course, Denver is not without it's question marks at receiver, but we have a few pro-bowler calibers guys at least in the mix with our younger guys.

I think Norv sucked with the Raiders because the Raiders sucked. He did fine with San Fran as they brought in new talent. We'll see if he can use one of the league's most talented rosters this year.

Well being as SD lead the league in points scored last year by a huge margin, I'm not freaking out about the WR situation. Vincent Jackson actually put up very good numbers in the last four games of the season when he was starting -- 3 for 95, 3 for 66, 5 for 97 2TDs, and 3 for 28 1TD. He still has a lot of room for improvement, too. And like I said, we scored more points than anybody last year with McCardell basically dead weight and an unspectacular #2 in Parker.

[Xenos]

The Chargers were stuck picking Norv. If they had let Marty go at the end of the season they would have had some good coaches to pick from. Probably their OC or DC who both left. The Chargers are in trouble with Norv as the HC. There is no way they would have picked him if they had a good pool to pick from. Kind of like the Raiders had to do when they hired Norv.

If Cam or Wade hadn't left then it probably would have been one of those two. But even if there were a pool of other options, then Norv would have been the one chosen. Heck, we picked him over Rex Ryan, a popular choice by the media and fans (such as myself).

[400HZ]

Wade is similar to Turner in the regards that he's always been a very good coordinator, but hasn't had much success as a HC. We'd be hearing the same nay-saying with Wade head coaching as we are with Norval. Cameron could have gone either way I guess, but I'm satisfied with replacing him with Turner. There were aspects of Cam's play calling that infuriated me at various times last year ie. always forgetting about Gates.

[Inkana7]

Wade is similar to Turner in the regards that he's always been a very good coordinator, but hasn't had much success as a HC. We'd be hearing the same nay-saying with Wade head coaching as we are with Norval. Cameron could have gone either way I guess, but I'm satisfied with replacing him with Turner. There were aspects of Cam's play calling that infuriated me at various times last year ie. always forgetting about Gates.

71 Catches and 9 TDs. Yeah. He seemed to be left out...<_<

[400HZ]

71 Catches and 9 TDs. Yeah. He seemed to be left out...<_<

Remember when Denver played SD the first time? I don't think Gates was thrown to the entire 1st half. What happened in the 2nd half when Cam remembered that he has the best TE in the league? 28 points happened.

That was not an isolated incident either, it happened repeatedly. For some reason Cameron was obsessed with play action swings to Lorenzo Neal in the first half of every game. And like Nick Hardwick said, he got way too cute at times. Against St Louis and Cleveland he spent the first part of both games trying to conduct an aerial attack with our wide receivers and not running the ball. Then he finally gave LT some carries, and boom, LT tore off some long runs and had like a 9 ypc average for those two games. Our offense started off anemic against Cincinasti before going no-huddle the second half and scoring 42 points in the second vs only 7 in the first.

Cameron called some fantastic games, but he also called some stinkers. There are times when you need to just pound the ball, there are times when you need to throw down the field, etc and Cameron had a tendency to get cute sometimes and not do that.

[boltaneer]

Remember when Denver played SD the first time? I don't think Gates was thrown to the entire 1st half. What happened in the 2nd half when Cam remembered that he has the best TE in the league? 28 points happened.

That was not an isolated incident either, it happened repeatedly. For some reason Cameron was obsessed with play action swings to Lorenzo Neal in the first half of every game. And like Nick Hardwick said, he got way too cute at times. Against St Louis and Cleveland he spent the first part of both games trying to conduct an aerial attack with our wide receivers and not running the ball. Then he finally gave LT some carries, and boom, LT tore off some long runs and had like a 9 ypc average for those two games. Our offense started off anemic against Cincinasti before going no-huddle the second half and scoring 42 points in the second vs only 7 in the first.

Cameron called some fantastic games, but he also called some stinkers. There are times when you need to just pound the ball, there are times when you need to throw down the field, etc and Cameron had a tendency to get cute sometimes and not do that.

I couldn't agree more. This is something you commonly hear from Charger fans.

[Bladerunner]

From living in the area and listening to all the talk radio, the local media in San Diego were not at all happy with the handling fo the coaching situation. I don't hink it got huge nationwide coaching because the talking heads only focus on players really....coaches get hired and fired with such regularity that it isn't really huge news, even as bizarre as Spanos' decisions were.

Things are more positive now in the SD area regarding Norv, but most cities get a little giddy during camp time.

I'm sure the Chargers will be tough this year, but I question how Turner will do in the long run, even with Smith buying the groceries.

[RkyMtnThunder]

The problem with Norv...and I am sure few will dispute simply based off his track record as HC...

is that he is not much of a motivator, nor does he field a disciplined team.

These 2 areas are kind of shady as millionaire professional athletes should not require external motivation or discipline.

But.....thats perfect world stuff and we all know this isnt a perfect world.



Of course he inherits a stacked roster and newly appointed HCs have done well when inheriting stacked rosters - but eventually most of these teams collapse as the new coach was not on par with the guy who built the team up prior to his arrival.

Sure, Norv has the Xs and Os down pat.

But will guys run through walls for him? Didnt look like they would in Oakland or Washington.

Can he light a fire in the locker room if the team is down by 17 at the half? His teams seemed to quit on him more often than not in these situations.

These are the kinds of questions I have about Norv & the Chargers in 2007.

[Boltergeist]

A lot of us Chargers fans are much more concerned about Teddy Cottrell taking over for Wade then we are Norv replacing Marty. I'm actually excited to see what Norv will bring to the offense. He works well with the personnel he is given on offense and the better he has, the more creative he becomes at exploiting mismatches. His hiring had everything to do with continuity of scheme and approach and minimal disruption to the league's highest scoring offense. Was he the best overall HC candidate out there? Probably not...was he better for this team than the others? You can make an argument there. I loved Rex Ryan..and I think if this was the Chargers of 2001, he would have been a great hire for a young team looking to establish an identity. For a talent-laden team that already knows how to win...I think the Chargers felt that not overhauling the offensive and defensive playbooks was the best option once the Marty situation was irreversible. There are some definite positives though from my perspective in unloading Marty. The guy...as he has done everywhere he's been...would just implode in pressure packed playoff or close big game situations. That had a definite ripple effect on the team IMO. Norv has no track record of being even a decent HC...but he has won a playoff game more recently than Marty....and he has also never had a team anywhere near the caliber of what he inherits in San Diego. Those Raider and (most) of the Redskins teams where gawd awful...they were before he got there...and they were after he left.....He won the lottery in getting a chance to coach the Chargers...and he has his chance to wipe the mud off of his name as a HC.

Phillips was great at making adjustments in the second half and I'm not sure we're going to see the same from Cottrell. Cottrell is apparantly going to be a lot more aggressive on third down which tells me he is a gambler. I like being aggressive...but Wade was aggressive enough...and he was smart and calculating and had the respect of the players...Not sure what to expect with Ted. I like that Rivera is there also to add input.

The most important thing that happened this offseason was the re-signing of Kris Dielman. Losing him would have hurt the team a lot considering they've been trying for years to put together an offensive line that was consistently solid. Rivers should hopefully progress nicely in his second year as a starter..and the rest of the team returns virtually intact. I know there are a lot of folks predicting doom and gloom for the Chargers because of Norv's hiring...but I don't see any evidence of that happening unless he puts himself in the game to make a tackle or throw a pass.

[boltaneer]

The problem with Norv...and I am sure few will dispute simply based off his track record as HC...

is that he is not much of a motivator, nor does he field a disciplined team.

These 2 areas are kind of shady as millionaire professional athletes should not require external motivation or discipline.

But.....thats perfect world stuff and we all know this isnt a perfect world.



Of course he inherits a stacked roster and newly appointed HCs have done well when inheriting stacked rosters - but eventually most of these teams collapse as the new coach was not on par with the guy who built the team up prior to his arrival.

Sure, Norv has the Xs and Os down pat.

But will guys run through walls for him? Didnt look like they would in Oakland or Washington.

Can he light a fire in the locker room if the team is down by 17 at the half? His teams seemed to quit on him more often than not in these situations.

These are the kinds of questions I have about Norv & the Chargers in 2007.

I've heard players say that they want a coach that they'll run through walls for and I've heard players say they respect a coach more who knows football and the motivational factor is not a big deal to them. It all depends on the type of person each player is.

It all boils down to the leadership in the locker room. I think they have some great leadership with LT, Gates, Rivers, Jamal Williams and Merriman. Some of those guys lead by example and some are more rah-rah type of guys.

[Boltergeist]

I've heard players say that they want a coach that they'll run through walls for and I've heard players say they respect a coach more who knows football and the motivational factor is not a big deal to them. It all depends on the type of person each player is.

It all boils down to the leadership in the locker room. I think they have some great leadership with LT, Gates, Rivers, Jamal Williams and Merriman. Some of those guys lead by example and some are more rah-rah type of guys.


Further it can be noted that Marty wasn't necessarily the guy players would "run through walls" for. His rah rah speeches...sideline pep talks etc were done so often that they were pretty played out....and they aren't super effective on a veteran group as they might be on a super young team or a college team. You could practically see the eye rolling on some of the speeches. The more effective motivators were players on the team.

Just to be fair about Marty, what might be missed is his attention to fundamentals in practice. Particularly holding onto the football on offense and sound tackling on defense. He would drill the chit out of all players like they were all rookies....every year. He made it clear that if you made mistakes when it counted...you would ride pine.

[Xenos]

The problem with Norv...and I am sure few will dispute simply based off his track record as HC...

is that he is not much of a motivator, nor does he field a disciplined team.

These 2 areas are kind of shady as millionaire professional athletes should not require external motivation or discipline.

But.....thats perfect world stuff and we all know this isnt a perfect world.



Of course he inherits a stacked roster and newly appointed HCs have done well when inheriting stacked rosters - but eventually most of these teams collapse as the new coach was not on par with the guy who built the team up prior to his arrival.

Sure, Norv has the Xs and Os down pat.

But will guys run through walls for him? Didnt look like they would in Oakland or Washington.

Can he light a fire in the locker room if the team is down by 17 at the half? His teams seemed to quit on him more often than not in these situations.

These are the kinds of questions I have about Norv & the Chargers in 2007.

If motivation was key then guys like Belichick would be out of the job by now. Norv doesn't have the fire and brimstone approach of Marty. He's more of a player's coach, which is what guys like Dungy and Belichick are known for. In the end it really depends on the players. And if the players need a motivator then they might as well quit now if they aren't motivated after last year's playoff game.

[gunns]

Despite his losing record, Norv has never taken over a team and made them worst. In fact he's actually improved their record and offense. He took over a 4-12 Redskins that had lost most of its key players and had aging veterans for the most part, and managed to churn several winning seasons with them. He also took over a 4-12 Raider team and improved them (offensively at least). Of course, it was the same situation with them as it was with the Redskins, only with the added predicament of Al Davis instead.


A heavy bit of rationalization here. You might want to look at those records again. Point is, IMO, he didn't really improve either team. But then again maybe you accept an 8-7-1 record as acceptable.

[gunns]

Gruden also had a more talented and young team when he was the Raider's head coach. Look how well he's doing in Tampa Bay now that he lost most of his key players to FA and have aging veterans that no longer are as good as they once were.

More rationalization. Gruden had a better team? Inhereting Jeff George, Wade Wilson, Hollas? Randy Jordan, Napoleon Kauffman? Taking a team from 4-12 to 12-4 within 3 years, that's an improvement AND dealing with Al Davis. With all these posts I'm wondering who the SD faithful are trying to convince, us or themselves.

[Xenos]

More rationalization. Gruden had a better team? Inhereting Jeff George, Wade Wilson, Hollas? Randy Jordan, Napoleon Kauffman? Taking a team from 4-12 to 12-4 within 3 years, that's an improvement AND dealing with Al Davis. With all these posts I'm wondering who the SD faithful are trying to convince, us or themselves.
Well that's the beauty of it isn't it. There's logical explanations on both side and it could go either way. You being a Denver fan obviously can't see anything good about it. And us, we can understand why these choices were made and why they can be good. It'll be interesting to see who will be right after this season is over with.

[Boltergeist]

This article sort of supports what I was saying about the different personality types. The Chargers players didn't dislike Marty, but they aren't necessarily going to miss his rah rah speeches at ever single practice.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20070728/news_1s28chargers.html

[400HZ]

This article sort of supports what I was saying about the different personality types. The Chargers players didn't dislike Marty, but they aren't necessarily going to miss his rah rah speeches at ever single practice.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20070728/news_1s28chargers.html

The GLEAM, Gentlemen, the GLEAM!!

[Inkana7]

The GLEAM, Gentlemen, the GLEAM!!

Haha. Rep.