PDA

View Full Version : Bee die off answer found


BABronco
07-20-2007, 12:56 PM
Asian parasite 'is the chief assassin' behind mass disappearance of honeybees
18th July 2007

A parasite common in Asian bees has spread to Europe and the Americas and is behind the mass disappearance of honeybees in many countries, says a Spanish scientist who has been studying the phenomenon for years.

The culprit is a microscopic parasite called nosema ceranae, said Mariano Higes, who leads a team of researchers at a government-funded apiculture centre in Guadalajara, the province east of Madrid that is the heartland of Spain's honey industry.

He and his colleagues have analysed thousands of samples from stricken hives in many countries.

"We started in 2000 with the hypothesis that it was pesticides, but soon ruled it out," he said in an interview today.

Pesticide traces were present only in a tiny proportion of samples and bee colonies were also dying in areas many miles from cultivated land, he said.

They then ruled out the varroa mite, which is easy to see and which was not present in most of the affected hives.

For a long time Higes and his colleagues thought a parasite called nosema apis, common in wet weather, was killing the bees.

"We saw the spores, but the symptoms were very different and it was happening in dry weather too."

Then he decided to sequence the parasite's DNA and discovered it was an Asian variant, nosema ceranae. Asian honeybees are less vulnerable to it, but it can kill European bees in a matter of days in laboratory conditions.

"Nosema ceranae is far more dangerous and lives in heat and cold. A hive can become infected in two months and the whole colony can collapse in six to 18 months," said Higes, whose team has published a number of papers on the subject.

"We've no doubt at all it's nosema ceranae and we think 50 per cent of Spanish hives are infected," he said.

Spain, with 2.3 million hives, is home to a quarter of the European Union's bees.

His team have also identified this parasite in bees from Austria, Slovenia and other parts of Eastern Europe and assume it has invaded from Asia over a number of years.

Now it seems to have crossed the Atlantic and is present in Canada and Argentina, he said. The Spanish researchers have not tested samples from the United States, where bees have also gone missing.

Treatment for nosema ceranae is effective and cheap - 1 euro (70p) a hive twice a year - but beekeepers first have to be convinced the parasite is the problem.

Another theory points a finger at mobile phone aerials, but Higes notes bees use the angle of the sun to navigate and not electromagnetic frequencies.

Other elements, such as drought or misapplied treatments, may play a part in lowering bees' resistance, but Higes is convinced the Asian parasite is the chief assassin.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=469350&in_page_id=1811&ito=1490

TerrElway
07-20-2007, 02:00 PM
But wait...I thought the science was settled and that this was due to human induced global warming, cell phones, George W. Bush and Brian Griese's dog?

Are you implying that there could be alternative explanations to those four when explaining everything bad?

:clown:

BABronco
07-20-2007, 02:04 PM
But wait...I thought the science was settled and that this was due to human induced global warming, cell phones, George W. Bush and Brian Griese's dog?

Are you implying that there could be alternative explanations to those four when explaining everything bad?

:clown:

Duh. You forgot about Plummer!

Atlas
07-20-2007, 02:32 PM
That's good they found the problem. Hopefully they can do something save them. Maybe some kind of cross breeding with the Asian bee.

Bob
07-20-2007, 02:33 PM
Interesting. If true what can they do to deal with it? I don’t care about more expensive Honey -- but what percentage of crops in America depend on Honey bees to encourage pollination?

alkemical
07-20-2007, 02:38 PM
Interesting. If true what can they do to deal with it? I donít care about more expensive Honey -- but what percentage of crops in America depend on Honey bees to encourage pollination?

about 30% i think i read somewhere. But i can't say that's a "fact"

Kaylore
07-20-2007, 02:43 PM
But wait...I thought the science was settled and that this was due to human induced global warming, cell phones, George W. Bush and Brian Griese's dog?

Are you implying that there could be alternative explanations to those four when explaining everything bad?

:clown:
:~ohyah!: Global warming made the parasite, you fool!

Besides, the Cell phone theory was awesome because it employed pseudo science! :afro:

Bob
07-20-2007, 02:45 PM
I know a guy who owns a bunch of bees -- he shared about how he went to California with his hives in tow (from Montana) to some almond farms, after about 2 weeks he lost about 50% of his bees -- he left as fast as he could. He said they were making a comback now -- not sure how that fits with the parisite idea... at the time I thought that maybe there was truth to the cell phone idea --

skpac1001
07-20-2007, 02:50 PM
There are no shortage of other animals able to fill in that niche if the bee vacates it. It may take a while for them to catch up to demand, but such a sweet niche will be filled quickly. Birds and insects are constantly trying to buzz in on the bee trade all the time, the only reason they don't have much success is because bee's are pretty ferocious and effecient at swarming in and stinging the competition.

PLOWHORSE
07-20-2007, 02:56 PM
There are no shortage of other animals able to fill in that niche if the bee vacates it. It may take a while for them to catch up to demand, but such a sweet niche will be filled quickly. Birds and insects are constantly trying to buzz in on the bee trade all the time, the only reason they don't have much success is because bee's are pretty ferocious and effecient at swarming in and stinging the competition.

I've never heard of birds and insects cross pollinating..Hmm new science is a wonder.

baja
07-20-2007, 03:00 PM
More illegal aliens.

So does this mean bees will have to start wearing condoms???

crush17
07-20-2007, 03:07 PM
I posted this same thing months ago and people told me I was wrong and that these parasites have been around forever and they wouldn't be causing this mass die off.

WTF?

skpac1001
07-20-2007, 03:11 PM
I've never heard of birds and insects cross pollinating..Hmm new science is a wonder.

Check out how cross pollination worked in Hawaii before bee's were taken there.

rugbythug
07-20-2007, 03:15 PM
I posted this same thing months ago and people told me I was wrong and that these parasites have been around forever and they wouldn't be causing this mass die off.

WTF?

No You said it was Mites.

rugbythug
07-20-2007, 03:16 PM
Check out how cross pollination worked in Hawaii before bee's were taken there by europeans.

That works well for natural environments but is not efficient enough for a agricultural environment.

Paladin
07-20-2007, 03:18 PM
But wait...I thought the science was settled and that this was due to human induced global warming, cell phones, George W. Bush and Brian Griese's dog?

Are you implying that there could be alternative explanations to those four when explaining everything bad?

:clown:

Actually, I think Bush may have been infested with the parasite when he was in Germany, and brought it back. Didn't change his socks, you see. Now he is going in to have his colon looked at. Is there a connection? You make the call....

:wiggle:

BABronco
07-20-2007, 03:20 PM
Actually, I think Bush may have been infested with th eparasite when he was in Germany, and brought it back. Didn't change his socks, you see. :wiggle:

That bastard

skpac1001
07-20-2007, 03:20 PM
That works well for natural environments but is not efficient enough for a agricultural environment.

Im not sure I understand the difference. How did you measure the effeciency level of something you just now learned about?

PLOWHORSE
07-20-2007, 03:22 PM
Common sense tells you that millions of acres of crop lands cannot possibly get pollinized by a few migrating birds that happen to be flying over the landscape. Just an opinion.

Atlas
07-20-2007, 03:24 PM
There are no shortage of other animals able to fill in that niche if the bee vacates it. It may take a while for them to catch up to demand, but such a sweet niche will be filled quickly. Birds and insects are constantly trying to buzz in on the bee trade all the time, the only reason they don't have much success is because bee's are pretty ferocious and effecient at swarming in and stinging the competition.

What kind of science is that. I call BS. I don't think bees attack butterflies if they are both pollintating flowers.

Atlas
07-20-2007, 03:26 PM
I posted this same thing months ago and people told me I was wrong and that these parasites have been around forever and they wouldn't be causing this mass die off.

WTF?

This is a different parasite. It's from Asia and made it's way over here.

rugbythug
07-20-2007, 03:28 PM
Im not sure I understand the difference. How did you measure the effeciency level of something you just now learned about?

I have a degree in Agroecology from the University of Wyoming. These are not original or ground breaking thoughts you are having.

skpac1001
07-20-2007, 03:53 PM
I have a degree in Agroecology from the University of Wyoming. These are not original or ground breaking thoughts you are having.

Lol, when did I say they were? I basically got it from two books, The Song of the Dodo which covers the battle between birds's and insects in Hawaii against the invading Bee's, and Darwin's Finches, which talks about the dynamism and speed that animals can capitoize on newly exposed niches. Its true that whatever is taking over will be initially far less effencient then specialized bee's, but it is also true that the overwhelming demand will cause a population explosion and the new thing will do the job through sheer numbers. Your right, there is nothing new about this, its basic stuff, which is why its puzzling your threatened enough to trot out your degree.

skpac1001
07-20-2007, 04:15 PM
Common sense tells you that millions of acres of crop lands cannot possibly get pollinized by a few migrating birds that happen to be flying over the landscape. Just an opinion.

If thats the impression I am putting out about what would happen, I can certainly understand your skepticism.

rugbythug
07-20-2007, 04:18 PM
The whole you just learned about was offensive and meant to be.

You are comparing a natural ecology to an ag ecology and saying what works in Papua New Guinea will work in Iowa.

Bees are the best pollinators on Earth. They can be transported easily. So if you have 10,000 almond trees to be pollinated you pay for bees to be brought in. When they are done they then go back to wherever they came from and collect a honey crop.

If you grow Almonds and there are no bees you can rely on birds or other less efficient means of pollination. At the same time you should start going to University of Phoenix so you can be ready for your new Job.

skpac1001
07-20-2007, 04:26 PM
What kind of science is that. I call BS. I don't think bees attack butterflies if they are both pollintating flowers.

I have to admit, I dont have an answer for the bee's butterflies thing. I suppose there is something different there, but I dont have any answers and don't really feel like making an effort to find out right now. As far as the name of the science, I am not sure if it would fall under ecology or general evolutionary theory. I dont think I can explain myself better or give better evidence without this becoming more trouble then its worth, but if your really interested, the book Darwin's Finches may explain what I am saying better then I am, unless I really misunderstood it.

skpac1001
07-20-2007, 04:29 PM
The whole you just learned about was offensive and meant to be.
You are comparing a natural ecology to an ag ecology and saying what works in Papua New Guinea will work in Iowa.

Bees are the best pollinators on Earth. They can be transported easily. So if you have 10,000 almond trees to be pollinated you pay for bees to be brought in. When they are done they then go back to wherever they came from and collect a honey crop.

If you grow Almonds and there are no bees you can rely on birds or other less efficient means of pollination. At the same time you should start going to University of Phoenix so you can be ready for your new Job.

Thats because I confused you with Plowhorse. He said he never heard of birds and insects cross pollinating and then you posted and said they were less effecient and I assumed it was him. Lol, your post saying they were not new ideas makes much more sence now.

skpac1001
07-20-2007, 04:36 PM
The whole you just learned about was offensive and meant to be.

You are comparing a natural ecology to an ag ecology and saying what works in Papua New Guinea will work in Iowa.

Bees are the best pollinators on Earth. They can be transported easily. So if you have 10,000 almond trees to be pollinated you pay for bees to be brought in. When they are done they then go back to wherever they came from and collect a honey crop.

If you grow Almonds and there are no bees you can rely on birds or other less efficient means of pollination. At the same time you should start going to University of Phoenix so you can be ready for your new Job.

While I understand your point, and agree there will be a significant short term crunch until the new cross pollinator(s) can catch up to demand population wise and may have significant disadvantages compared to bees in certain ways, my point is that if bee's are killed off, cross pollination itself will not end, and something else will take thier niche.

rugbythug
07-20-2007, 04:37 PM
What kind of science is that. I call BS. I don't think bees attack butterflies if they are both pollintating flowers.

They Don't Bees just do it faster. And since a colony will have 100k bees in it compared to a few butterflies they do it better.

rugbythug
07-20-2007, 04:43 PM
While I understand your point, and agree there will be a significant short term crunch until the new cross pollinator(s) can catch up to demand population wise and may have significant disadvantages compared to bees in certain ways, my point is that if bee's are killed off, cross pollination itself will not end, and something else will take thier niche.

In a way. Only after people starved and the land went back fallow because you could not profit from it.

You do not follow your own ecology to its inevitable end. Bees are gone. Rise Mothra to take care of the Almond trees. Tree Population stays the same as per farmer. But with the rise of Mothra so follows Godzilla, Godzilla prevents Mothra population to become adequate for a inflated tree Population. Hence even later trees are not adequately pollinated.

Rock Chalk
07-20-2007, 04:43 PM
If bees die off, somethign will take its place.

Thats the argument that dude was making.

Its called evolution and can occur rapidly to fill new ecological opportunities.

Hummingbirds may expand their natural habitats and move in and the populations of said humming birds (and their predators) would soar because of a plentiful food supply.

Sure, bees do it best because of the numbers, but the gap WILL be filled.

PLOWHORSE
07-20-2007, 04:47 PM
If bees die off, somethign will take its place.

Thats the argument that dude was making.

Its called evolution and can occur rapidly to fill new ecological opportunities.

Hummingbirds may expand their natural habitats and move in and the populations of said humming birds (and their predators) would soar because of a plentiful food supply.

Sure, bees do it best because of the numbers, but the gap WILL be filled.

Well said, I see it now.:thumbsup:

rugbythug
07-20-2007, 04:49 PM
If bees die off, somethign will take its place.

Thats the argument that dude was making.

Its called evolution and can occur rapidly to fill new ecological opportunities.

Hummingbirds may expand their natural habitats and move in and the populations of said humming birds (and their predators) would soar because of a plentiful food supply.

Sure, bees do it best because of the numbers, but the gap WILL be filled.
First bees won't die off. They will come up with a cure. (If I remember the article the guy said that there was one already)

No the Gap will close. because you can't grow almonds in large quantities anymore.

skpac1001
07-20-2007, 04:50 PM
In a way. Only after people starved and the land went back fallow because you could not profit from it.

You do not follow your own ecology to its inevitable end. Bees are gone. Rise Mothra to take care of the Almond trees. Tree Population stays the same as per farmer. But with the rise of Mothra so follows Godzilla, Godzilla prevents Mothra population to become adequate for a inflated tree Population. Hence even later trees are not adequately pollinated.

Perhaps Mothra's population explosion wont cover the demand, but if the demand still exists then Mothra's cousins (other species) will move in. Supply and demand. Anytime a surplus of food exists, particularly one as rich as nector, its going to attract any species that can exploit it. I am not sure there has ever existed a situation in which there was a surplus of high quality food in one niche over a long period of time that did not attract enough competition to satisify it and eventually create a condition of scarcity. Besides, there will be an immediate arms race with Godzilla, as the Mothra's that escape him for whatever reason will be the ones that pass on thier genes.

Rock Chalk
07-20-2007, 04:51 PM
In a way. Only after people starved and the land went back fallow because you could not profit from it.

You do not follow your own ecology to its inevitable end. Bees are gone. Rise Mothra to take care of the Almond trees. Tree Population stays the same as per farmer. But with the rise of Mothra so follows Godzilla, Godzilla prevents Mothra population to become adequate for a inflated tree Population. Hence even later trees are not adequately pollinated.

The problem with your theory is that predators only keep prey in check but prey can exist in vast enough numbers that teh surrounding food supply can handle.

Nature has a innate function to keep a balance in the chain.

If there is enough food to supply 80 thousand bees or, 300 thousand moths, then that many will exist.

If it requires 100 sparrows to keep the moth numbers from going over the maximum amount to maintain the ecology, thats how many sparrows will be there. Not more, not less. Imbalance occurs and except for humans, nature finds a way to deal with these.

I dont need a degree to tell me what I can see with my own two eyes. There is balance in nature. f one dominate species dies off, another will step in to take its place, and quickly too.

Fortunately for us, 2 bucks per hive, twice a year will prevent the die off IF this is indeed the answer so this is all kind of a stupid argument.

skpac1001
07-20-2007, 05:04 PM
If bees die off, somethign will take its place.

Thats the argument that dude was making.

Its called evolution and can occur rapidly to fill new ecological opportunities.

Hummingbirds may expand their natural habitats and move in and the populations of said humming birds (and their predators) would soar because of a plentiful food supply.

Sure, bees do it best because of the numbers, but the gap WILL be filled.

Well ****, why couldnt I have written that.

skpac1001
07-20-2007, 05:36 PM
First bees won't die off. They will come up with a cure. (If I remember the article the guy said that there was one already)

No the Gap will close. because you can't grow almonds in large quantities anymore.

If the bee's die out suddenly and totally in one day and the almond tree's that aren't immediatly taken care of can't survive not being pollinated for a couple years, maybe it would close. If the bee's gradually die offover a few years, I don't see how there would be a problem. Maybe we are disagreeing on how long it would take the new competitors to adjust.

rugbythug
07-20-2007, 05:37 PM
This really is funny to me. I am trying to explain something to people. Something I have very good knowledge about. I grew up in an Agricultural environment raising Alfalfa seed. Using Leaf Cutter Bees as a Polinator. From 16-21 I owned a honey bee Operation with around 1000 colonies in the Big Horn Basin. I sold out to Bryant Honey.
http://www.worlandchamber.com/industry.htm
So even with intimate Knowledge and class room work people still say. No it works this other way. Must be my agenda.

rugbythug
07-20-2007, 05:39 PM
The problem with your theory is that predators only keep prey in check but prey can exist in vast enough numbers that teh surrounding food supply can handle.

Nature has a innate function to keep a balance in the chain.

If there is enough food to supply 80 thousand bees or, 300 thousand moths, then that many will exist.

If it requires 100 sparrows to keep the moth numbers from going over the maximum amount to maintain the ecology, thats how many sparrows will be there. Not more, not less. Imbalance occurs and except for humans, nature finds a way to deal with these.

I dont need a degree to tell me what I can see with my own two eyes. There is balance in nature. f one dominate species dies off, another will step in to take its place, and quickly too.

Fortunately for us, 2 bucks per hive, twice a year will prevent the die off IF this is indeed the answer so this is all kind of a stupid argument.

This is not a natural environment. In a natural environment People starve to death.

skpac1001
07-20-2007, 05:40 PM
This really is funny to me. I am trying to explain something to people. Something I have very good knowledge about. I grew up in an Agricultural environment raising Alfalfa seed. Using Leaf Cutter Bees as a Polinator. From 16-21 I owned a honey bee Operation with around 1000 colonies in the Big Horn Basin. I sold out to Bryant Honey.
http://www.worlandchamber.com/industry.htm
So even with intimate Knowledge and class room work people still say. No it works this other way. Must be my agenda.

With such impressive background, it should be easy to wipe out conflicting arguments logically. I don't really accept appeals to authority usually.

rugbythug
07-20-2007, 05:43 PM
If the bee's die out suddenly and totally in one day and the almond tree's that aren't immediatly taken care of can't survive not being pollinated for a couple years, maybe it would close. If the bee's gradually die offover a few years, I don't see how there would be a problem. Maybe we are disagreeing on how long it would take the new competitors to adjust.

People must think farmers are really Dumb. The orchards pay $150.00 per colony for pollination(Much higher than it used to be) If they could get it for free with natural Pollination don't you think they would?

skpac1001
07-20-2007, 05:44 PM
People must think farmers are really Dumb. The orchards pay $150.00 per colony for pollination(Much higher than it used to be) If they could get it for free with natural Pollination don't you think they would?

What does that have to do with it? Who is arguing that bee's are not the best at what they do?

rugbythug
07-20-2007, 05:44 PM
With such impressive background, it should be easy to wipe out conflicting arguments logically. I don't really accept appeals to authority usually.

It was. To bad I am on authority on such an obscure topic. These threads come up as often as leap day.

rugbythug
07-20-2007, 05:46 PM
What does that have to do with it? Who is arguing that bee's are not the best at what they do?

You are arguing that farmers can grow crops with out Honey bee pollination. I am saying they can't.

skpac1001
07-20-2007, 05:47 PM
It was. To bad I am on authority on such an obscure topic. These threads come up as often as leap day.

lol. Well I guess we just fundamentally disagree then. No big deal, I am sure the world will keep spinning.

rugbythug
07-20-2007, 05:49 PM
No problem with me. I disagree with lots of my friends. But then again they are bunch of Big Gov't weiners. LOL

skpac1001
07-20-2007, 05:51 PM
No problem with me. I disagree with lots of my friends. But then again they are bunch of Big Gov't weiners. LOL

LOL

Bronco Bob
07-22-2007, 12:51 AM
That's good they found the problem. Hopefully they can do something save them. Maybe some kind of cross breeding with the Asian bee.

Why not just use the 1 euro treatment? It seems like it would be easier and cheaper.

"Treatment for nosema ceranae is effective and cheap - 1 euro (70p) a hive twice a year - but beekeepers first have to be convinced the parasite is the problem."

Atlas
07-22-2007, 12:56 AM
Why not just use the 1 euro treatment? It seems like it would be easier and cheaper.

"Treatment for nosema ceranae is effective and cheap - 1 euro (70p) a hive twice a year - but beekeepers first have to be convinced the parasite is the problem."

If that will do it that would be great. I have no idea. I'm sure the government would subsidize the bee keepers for this.

alkemical
04-22-2008, 08:23 AM
Flowers Are Losing Their Smell
Air Pollution Is Destroying the 'Scent Trail' That Leads Insects to Plants, Scientists Say (http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=4660586&page=1)

By LEE DYE

April 16, 2008 ó

Air pollution is killing the smell of flowers, possibly eliminating the "scent trail" that helps guide those terribly important pollinators, like bees, to the plants that depend upon them for survival, scientists believe.

The discovery could be one of several factors in the "colony collapse disorder" that is wiping out honey bees around the world.

While it is still too soon to determine the full impact of air pollution on the symbiotic relationship between insects and the flowers they pollinate, researchers at the University of Virginia are confident they have shown that pollutants are killing the scent trail, and that could turn out to be extremely significant.

Before the industrial revolution, the trail extended at least half a mile from the flower, but today at that distance "it's almost completely destroyed," said Quinn McFrederick, a doctoral candidate in biology at the university and lead author of a study that in the current issue of the journal Atmospheric Environment.

Scientists have known for some time that airborne chemicals like ozone, hydroxyl and nitrate radicals -- major components of smog -- alter the chemicals produced by flowers that give them a specific smell. But it had not been known how that affected the trail that helps lead insects to the flowers.

Scents that could travel for more than half a mile in the 1800s now probably travel less than about 600 feet, according to Jose D. Fuentes, professor of environmental sciences at the university and a co-author of the study.

"This makes it increasingly difficult for pollinators to locate the flowers," Fuentes said.

In a telephone interview, McFrederick said that the scent trail deteriorates even very close to the flowers, and that could discourage insects, especially bees and moths, from even sampling the flower to see if it contains the nectar they need for survival. And if they pass up the flower, it will not receive the pollination it needs. So both the pollinator and the pollinated suffer.

At this point the research consists of a mathematical model into which the researchers inserted the known impact of various pollutants on the molecules carrying the scent. They then extrapolated out to various distances to see how much of an impact that would have. But the findings haven't been tested in "the real world," McFrederick said. He and his colleagues hope to do that soon.

The findings are intriguing, but no one knows just yet how significant they really are.

"We don't know an awful lot about how insects actually use these scent trails," he said. It's unknown how much of a scent is required for the insect to detect it, and no one knows yet if new chemicals produced by the reaction between scent molecules and air pollution can also be detected by insects. But what is known is that scent is important in the overall pollination process.

Bees and many other insects depend primarily on vision to find flowers. But the researchers believe that scent, detected at a considerable distance from the flowers, may tell the insects the general direction of the flowers. So insects travel in that direction until they actually see the flowers, and then depend on scent somewhat to decide which flowers to visit. Some other insects, like nocturnal moths, must depend very heavily upon scent, McFrederick said.

And if that's the case, "plants that don't depend on animal pollinators would do better than plants that do depend on animal pollinators," he added. "Plants that can be pollinated by the wind, or plants that can pollinate themselves, might be expected to do better and their populations to be proportionally larger in areas where there is lots of pollution."

Two years ago an international team reported that a 25-year study had found just that in the Netherlands and parts of Great Britain. When the bee population declined, so did the plants that the bees pollinate.

"In Britain, pollinator species that were relatively rare in the past have tended to become rarer still, while the commoner species have become even more plentiful," Stuart Roberts of the University of Reading said at the time. "Even in insects, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer."

That trend has not been documented yet in the United States, but there is no debate about the decline in pollinators. In the last 50 years the bee population that farmers depend upon for pollination has declined by 50 percent, according to one study. The decline in bees has been blamed chiefly on diseases spread by mites and viruses, as well as pollution and pesticides.

Now, scientists may be able to add another element to the equation. The sweet aroma coming from flowers isn't as strong as it once was, and that's probably happening all over the globe.

Lee Dye is a former science writer for the Los Angeles Times. He now lives in Juneau, Alaska.

Copyright © 2008 ABC News Internet Ventures

Atlas
04-22-2008, 08:27 AM
There are no shortage of other animals able to fill in that niche if the bee vacates it. It may take a while for them to catch up to demand, but such a sweet niche will be filled quickly. Birds and insects are constantly trying to buzz in on the bee trade all the time, the only reason they don't have much success is because bee's are pretty ferocious and effecient at swarming in and stinging the competition.

That is false. Bees are the world's number 1 pollinator. It could take a thousand years for other species to fill that niche.

Atlas
04-22-2008, 08:30 AM
Flowers Are Losing Their Smell
Air Pollution Is Destroying the 'Scent Trail' That Leads Insects to Plants, Scientists Say (http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=4660586&page=1)

By LEE DYE

April 16, 2008 ó

Air pollution is killing the smell of flowers, possibly eliminating the "scent trail" that helps guide those terribly important pollinators, like bees, to the plants that depend upon them for survival, scientists believe.

The discovery could be one of several factors in the "colony collapse disorder" that is wiping out honey bees around the world.

While it is still too soon to determine the full impact of air pollution on the symbiotic relationship between insects and the flowers they pollinate, researchers at the University of Virginia are confident they have shown that pollutants are killing the scent trail, and that could turn out to be extremely significant.

Before the industrial revolution, the trail extended at least half a mile from the flower, but today at that distance "it's almost completely destroyed," said Quinn McFrederick, a doctoral candidate in biology at the university and lead author of a study that in the current issue of the journal Atmospheric Environment.

Scientists have known for some time that airborne chemicals like ozone, hydroxyl and nitrate radicals -- major components of smog -- alter the chemicals produced by flowers that give them a specific smell. But it had not been known how that affected the trail that helps lead insects to the flowers.

Scents that could travel for more than half a mile in the 1800s now probably travel less than about 600 feet, according to Jose D. Fuentes, professor of environmental sciences at the university and a co-author of the study.

"This makes it increasingly difficult for pollinators to locate the flowers," Fuentes said.

In a telephone interview, McFrederick said that the scent trail deteriorates even very close to the flowers, and that could discourage insects, especially bees and moths, from even sampling the flower to see if it contains the nectar they need for survival. And if they pass up the flower, it will not receive the pollination it needs. So both the pollinator and the pollinated suffer.

At this point the research consists of a mathematical model into which the researchers inserted the known impact of various pollutants on the molecules carrying the scent. They then extrapolated out to various distances to see how much of an impact that would have. But the findings haven't been tested in "the real world," McFrederick said. He and his colleagues hope to do that soon.

The findings are intriguing, but no one knows just yet how significant they really are.

"We don't know an awful lot about how insects actually use these scent trails," he said. It's unknown how much of a scent is required for the insect to detect it, and no one knows yet if new chemicals produced by the reaction between scent molecules and air pollution can also be detected by insects. But what is known is that scent is important in the overall pollination process.

Bees and many other insects depend primarily on vision to find flowers. But the researchers believe that scent, detected at a considerable distance from the flowers, may tell the insects the general direction of the flowers. So insects travel in that direction until they actually see the flowers, and then depend on scent somewhat to decide which flowers to visit. Some other insects, like nocturnal moths, must depend very heavily upon scent, McFrederick said.

And if that's the case, "plants that don't depend on animal pollinators would do better than plants that do depend on animal pollinators," he added. "Plants that can be pollinated by the wind, or plants that can pollinate themselves, might be expected to do better and their populations to be proportionally larger in areas where there is lots of pollution."

Two years ago an international team reported that a 25-year study had found just that in the Netherlands and parts of Great Britain. When the bee population declined, so did the plants that the bees pollinate.

"In Britain, pollinator species that were relatively rare in the past have tended to become rarer still, while the commoner species have become even more plentiful," Stuart Roberts of the University of Reading said at the time. "Even in insects, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer."

That trend has not been documented yet in the United States, but there is no debate about the decline in pollinators. In the last 50 years the bee population that farmers depend upon for pollination has declined by 50 percent, according to one study. The decline in bees has been blamed chiefly on diseases spread by mites and viruses, as well as pollution and pesticides.

Now, scientists may be able to add another element to the equation. The sweet aroma coming from flowers isn't as strong as it once was, and that's probably happening all over the globe.

Lee Dye is a former science writer for the Los Angeles Times. He now lives in Juneau, Alaska.

Copyright © 2008 ABC News Internet Ventures

Well, God Dammit!! If it isn't one thing it's another!!!

alkemical
04-22-2008, 09:15 AM
That is false. Bees are the world's number 1 pollinator. It could take a thousand years for other species to fill that niche.

IF another one would. (http://www.newscientist.com/channel/life/dn13620-evolution-24-myths-and-misconceptions.html?DCMP=ILC-hmts&nsref=top1_head_Evolution:%2024%20myths%20and %20misconceptions)

Kaylore
04-22-2008, 09:22 AM
Well, God Dammit!! If it isn't one thing it's another!!!

This sounds just as bogus as that cell phone theory. This is another irresponsible article by a major news source that throws up some theory that "may" happen and then when they cite sources, they use the generic term "scientists believe" and everyone nods their heads.

Not all scientists are created equal.

STBumpkin
04-22-2008, 09:43 AM
I think this will work like any other disease/parasite. Those without an immunity will die off, leaving those that remain a stronger species. Yeah, plague devastated Europe, but those left had developed immunity. Similar to small pox and the flu epidemic of 1918.

Spider
04-22-2008, 09:44 AM
Damn . Bee die off huh ?
perhaps god gave them the parasite as punishment for some kind of sinful behavior ........

~Crash~
04-22-2008, 09:50 AM
Interesting. If true what can they do to deal with it? I donít care about more expensive Honey -- but what percentage of crops in America depend on Honey bees to encourage pollination?

Treatment for nosema ceranae is effective and cheap - 1 euro (70p) a hive twice a year - but beekeepers first have to be convinced the parasite is the problem.

~Crash~
04-22-2008, 09:52 AM
This sounds just as bogus as that cell phone theory. This is another irresponsible article by a major news source that throws up some theory that "may" happen and then when they cite sources, they use the generic term "scientists believe" and everyone nods their heads.

Not all scientists are created equal.

you know I think you full of **** on this one :spit:

Kaylore
04-22-2008, 10:17 AM
you know I think you full of **** on this one :spit:

You're right. I mean the article does cite a lot of data...oh wait, it doesn't. Well it explains the qualifications of the scientists...oops. No it doesn't. Well at least it says how many scientists and what their discipline is...oops. Dang. Well at least it shows tests in a real world situation...oh crap is specifically says it hasn't been tested yet! Shoot. Well at least it says the research has been independently reviewed and approved by other scientists. It doesn't! Hmmm. Well they don't speak about findings in the abstract...er...crap:

Air pollution is killing the smell of flowers, possibly eliminating the "scent trail" that helps guide those terribly important pollinators

Notice the "possibly" which sets up the whole doomsday article as a could-be bunch of crap. The "terribly" is a nice touch. Kind of gives the thing a scary feel.
The discovery could be one of several factors
More hypothetical editorializing! Brilliant!
While it is still too soon to determine the full impact of air pollution...researchers at the University of Virginia are confident they have shown that pollutants are killing the scent trail, and that could turn out to be extremely significant.
Awesome. He admits in his first few sentences that we know nothing, but he's basically saying "imagine what would happen if this might could possibly have outside shot of being true! Let's make an article on that possibility! I'm a paid journalist! Ooga booga!"

Here I'll sum up the article:

While it is too soon to determine the impact of this tiny research that is in its infant stages, lets write an article so soccer moms can freak out about it! It's never too early to have a cow!

But what do I know?;D

alkemical
04-22-2008, 11:22 AM
hey! i used an existing thread!

alkemical
01-06-2012, 10:26 AM
http://io9.com/5872558/parasitic-flies-turn-bees-into-zombies-before-wiping-them-out-completely

Parasitic flies turn bees into zombies before wiping them out completely

Rohirrim
01-06-2012, 10:35 AM
Didn't Atlas leave because of McD? Why doesn't he come back now?

Agamemnon
01-06-2012, 10:40 AM
That's good they found the problem. Hopefully they can do something save them. Maybe some kind of cross breeding with the Asian bee.

Cross-breeding of bees is how the "killer bee" came about...

TheReverend
01-06-2012, 10:41 AM
Didn't Atlas leave because of McD? Why doesn't he come back now?

Because of Shanahan.

OABB
01-06-2012, 10:55 AM
Yay! does this mean when can go back to polluting the earth without guilt!


**** YES!

Broncos_OTM
01-06-2012, 11:46 AM
Wrong thread .. .backs aout

broncosteven
01-06-2012, 12:01 PM
Because of Shanahan.

He told me it was the brown shirted mCd fan police. They ran off a lot of good posters.

Chris
01-06-2012, 03:25 PM
****in zombies man.

Lycan
01-06-2012, 03:32 PM
I've never been stung by a bee that I can remember, so sure, someone save them.

The first time I get stung though, **** 'em. Let them be zombified.

Rohirrim
01-06-2012, 03:42 PM
I'm building a top bar hive to set up in the Spring.

Bronx33
01-06-2012, 05:11 PM
I watched a documentary on bee keepers in california it was pretty sad how hard they were being effected.

Sideburn
01-07-2012, 04:53 AM
There are no shortage of other animals able to fill in that niche if the bee vacates it. It may take a while for them to catch up to demand, but such a sweet niche will be filled quickly. Birds and insects are constantly trying to buzz in on the bee trade all the time, the only reason they don't have much success is because bee's are pretty ferocious and effecient at swarming in and stinging the competition.

As a beekeeper I must say...

You're a freaking dumbass.

Pony Boy
01-07-2012, 07:48 AM
That is false. Bees are the world's number 1 pollinator. It could take a thousand years for other species to fill that niche.

Ha..... Atlas was wrong on that one, it didn't take Kolby Bryant long to fill that niche as number 1 pollinator.

BowlenBall
01-07-2012, 08:03 AM
According to the official coroner's report, the cause of death was speedballs.

http://tvmedia.ign.com/tv/image/article/748/748989/saturday-night-live-season-1-20061204000845066.jpg

Chris
01-07-2012, 08:29 AM
As a beekeeper I must say...

You're a freaking dumbass.

I am going to quote this out of context FOREVER now.

Popps
01-07-2012, 09:25 AM
Queen bee had elongated flying motion.

Chris
01-07-2012, 09:54 AM
You sure they didn't just go see this?

http://www.movieposterdb.com/posters/08_09/2007/389790/l_389790_21c02a92.jpg

Kaylore
01-07-2012, 10:15 AM
Queen bee had elongated flying motion.

You win!:thumbs:

BowlenBall
01-07-2012, 10:18 AM
Queen bee had elongated flying motion.

Beebow hater.

http://i.istockimg.com/file_thumbview_approve/16942824/2/stock-illustration-16942824-bee-football.jpg

Gort
01-07-2012, 10:24 AM
has anyone considered mass suicide ???

Inkana7
01-07-2012, 11:18 AM
has anyone considered mass suicide ???

Jonezzzzzztown

Cito Pelon
01-08-2012, 09:11 AM
You are arguing that farmers can grow crops with out Honey bee pollination. I am saying they can't.

Maybe they can transport colonies of bats. Think outside the box. J/K ;D

OT a little bit, but I was out in the fields walking the dogs a couple years ago and this swarm of bees came right at us. Not in an aggressive way, I guess they were moving their colony. I could hear it at first, then I could see them, must have been thousands in a swarm about 10 feet wide and 15-20 feet long. They were all around me and maybe 3-4 hit me but didn't land. They were gone in seconds, must have been moving at 20 mph.

alkemical
01-13-2012, 07:22 AM
http://www.physorg.com/news/2012-01-honeybee-deaths-linked-seed-insecticide.html

Honeybee populations have been in serious decline for years, and Purdue University scientists may have identified one of the factors that cause bee deaths around agricultural fields.

Chris
01-13-2012, 07:47 AM
http://www.physorg.com/news/2012-01-honeybee-deaths-linked-seed-insecticide.html

Honeybee populations have been in serious decline for years, and Purdue University scientists may have identified one of the factors that cause bee deaths around agricultural fields.

Kyle Orton's drunk Jack Daniels piss?

Kaylore
01-13-2012, 08:18 AM
Kyle Orton's drunk Jack Daniels piss?

It's NOT cell phones.

Bacchus
03-09-2012, 09:04 PM
That's good they found the problem. Hopefully they can do something save them. Maybe some kind of cross breeding with the Asian bee.

Cross breeding is always an option.

Chris
03-09-2012, 10:19 PM
Cross breeding is always an option.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-tdwQmLq2Qic/TY-61V_YFoI/AAAAAAAAAEE/JVs--guyNhg/s1600/honeybadger2-708637.jpg

Dedhed
03-09-2012, 10:27 PM
*this report courtesy of Monsanto

alkemical
04-20-2012, 10:03 AM
*this report courtesy of Monsanto


http://cryptogon.com/?p=28675

Blamed for Bee Collapse, Monsanto Buys Leading Bee Research Firm
by Kevin
Via: Natural Society: Monsanto, the massive biotechnology company being blamed for contributing to the dwindling bee population, has bought up one of the leading bee collapse research organizations. Recently banned from Poland with one of the primary reasons being that the companyís genetically modified corn may be devastating the dying bee population, it is evident [...]

Kaylore
04-20-2012, 10:21 AM
http://cryptogon.com/?p=28675

Blamed for Bee Collapse, Monsanto Buys Leading Bee Research Firm
by Kevin
Via: Natural Society: Monsanto, the massive biotechnology company being blamed for contributing to the dwindling bee population, has bought up one of the leading bee collapse research organizations. Recently banned from Poland with one of the primary reasons being that the companyís genetically modified corn may be devastating the dying bee population, it is evident [...]

So the corn did it!

baja
04-20-2012, 10:27 AM
Monsanto is altering life at the DNA level and all the peeps here can manage is weak jokes but let the Brooncos cut a second rate DT facing a suspension and all hell breaks lose.

Ripe for oppression, I'd say likely.

IHaveALight
04-20-2012, 10:45 AM
http://cryptogon.com/?p=28675

Blamed for Bee Collapse, Monsanto Buys Leading Bee Research Firm
by Kevin
Via: Natural Society: Monsanto, the massive biotechnology company being blamed for contributing to the dwindling bee population, has bought up one of the leading bee collapse research organizations. Recently banned from Poland with one of the primary reasons being that the companyís genetically modified corn may be devastating the dying bee population, it is evident [...]

I guess owning the government isn't quite enough to protect their profits these days.

BroncoBeavis
04-20-2012, 10:51 AM
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-tdwQmLq2Qic/TY-61V_YFoI/AAAAAAAAAEE/JVs--guyNhg/s1600/honeybadger2-708637.jpg

Whoa, is that a Honey Beeger? :)

alkemical
04-20-2012, 10:52 AM
Monsanto is altering life at the DNA level and all the peeps here can manage is weak jokes but let the Brooncos cut a second rate DT facing a suspension and all hell breaks lose.

Ripe for oppression, I'd say likely.



I guess owning the government isn't quite enough to protect their profits these days.



Indeed.

Gort
04-20-2012, 11:25 AM
Monsanto is altering life at the DNA level and all the peeps here can manage is weak jokes but let the Brooncos cut a second rate DT facing a suspension and all hell breaks lose.

Ripe for oppression, I'd say likely.

*** NEWSFLASH ***

eating so-called "genetically modified" corn doesn't cause the DNA of the corn to be incorporated into your own DNA.

they are NOT altering life at the DNA level. you've watched too many Resident Evil movies.

alkemical
04-20-2012, 11:33 AM
*** NEWSFLASH ***

eating so-called "genetically modified" corn doesn't cause the DNA of the corn to be incorporated into your own DNA.

they are NOT altering life at the DNA level. you've watched too many Resident Evil movies.

This post sponsored by Monsanto.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetically_modified_food


Truth & untruth.

It does change how living organisms interact with GMO. Look at Bees, the abortions in animals, etc.

there's a lot of problems with GMO, and well - Monsanto's buying up the research.

Think about it this way:

Why does Monsanto pay to keep their name off of products?


More research is needed - but:

http://www.naturalnews.com/033784_GMO_animal_feed.html

Scientific studies conclude GMO feed causes organ disruption in animals

(NaturalNews) A new paper reviewing data from 19 animal studies shows that consuming genetically modified (GM) corn or soybeans leads to significant organ disruptions in rats and mice, particularly in livers and kidneys (http://www.enveurope.com/content/23/1/10). "Other organs may be affected too, such as the heart and spleen, or blood cells," stated the paper. In fact some of the animals fed genetically modified organisms had altered body weights, which is "a very good predictor of side effects in various organs."

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/033784_GMO_animal_feed.html#ixzz1sbjs3lHn

Obushma
04-20-2012, 11:51 AM
It's NOT cell phones.

Wait Kaylore, I just want to understand something here.

It's more believeable to you, that some guy read God's word out of a magical top hat that nobody else could see, and that you'll be the God of your own world when you die...then it is to believe that bees could die off because of cell phones and genetically altered crops?

Am I understanding you correctly?

mhgaffney
04-20-2012, 11:54 AM
The parasite has been around for eons but never threatened the bees until now.

Most likely -- there are other factors, as well.

The massive use of pesticides, herbicides, fungicides etc by humans has weakened the bees -- making them more vulnerable.

Gort
04-20-2012, 11:58 AM
This post sponsored by Monsanto.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetically_modified_food


Truth & untruth.

It does change how living organisms interact with GMO. Look at Bees, the abortions in animals, etc.

there's a lot of problems with GMO, and well - Monsanto's buying up the research.

Think about it this way:

Why does Monsanto pay to keep their name off of products?


More research is needed - but:

http://www.naturalnews.com/033784_GMO_animal_feed.html

Scientific studies conclude GMO feed causes organ disruption in animals

(NaturalNews) A new paper reviewing data from 19 animal studies shows that consuming genetically modified (GM) corn or soybeans leads to significant organ disruptions in rats and mice, particularly in livers and kidneys (http://www.enveurope.com/content/23/1/10). "Other organs may be affected too, such as the heart and spleen, or blood cells," stated the paper. In fact some of the animals fed genetically modified organisms had altered body weights, which is "a very good predictor of side effects in various organs."

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/033784_GMO_animal_feed.html#ixzz1sbjs3lHn

i declare shenanigans!

http://img.poptower.com/pic-22566/south-park.jpg

alkemical
04-20-2012, 11:58 AM
Then you have IP law with Monsanto trying to copyright "corn, soy, pig" DNA.

Orange_Beard
04-20-2012, 07:37 PM
God hates bees.

baja
04-20-2012, 07:46 PM
Indeed.


I always wondered why they called it "Roundup". Now I see it's a great cosmic joke, Monsanto will be rounding up the sheeple for disposal after they have been rendered more infertile and more mentally disabled.