OT: Salt Lake City (Orem actually)

[BMF Bronco]

Okay, let me preface this by saying I just hope to crap I don't jinx myself.

However, I interviewed with a company there yesterday and it went extremely well, however, they initially were going to allow me to stay here in Bozeman and telecommute, but that seems to be fading with the sun. So what does everyone know about it and is it worth moving there if it will increase my salary three-fold? I am serious here, I don't want jokes about becoming a Mormon or the lack of alcohol there, I am looking for anwers to questions like, what's the cost of living, is it safe for kids, should I rent or buy, etc. Please fill me in.

thanks in advance.

[bronclvr]

Cost of living is moderate (compared to say, Denver), but Housing prices have been steadily increasing in the last few Years. Depending on where you live, it is a GREAT place for kids-and, if, unfortuneatly, you have a problem child, Utah has a vast amount of Programs for helping kids (up through 21). Good Schools by and large. I think I would buy a House, if possible,as I don't think the Housing appreciation is over.

Stay away from West Valley City by and large-you will find the better areas are the Northeast part of any Town (I don't know why this is, but a Realtor once told me this and it has proven to true most of the time)-

[azbroncfan]

Decent place to live. No bars to speak of really so plan on the sunday ticket but almost all Denver games are on local TV, lots of hot women who like levi loving, great outdoors, and it will be hard to find a new house for under 400 grand unless it is a few years older. It is a safe place to live, and I expect prices to come down a bit over next 1/2 a year or so.

[freak6]

3x the money would convince me.

Not to mention you could marry all the girls from the Mane you wanted!

LOL

[BMF Bronco]

Cost of living is moderate (compared to say, Denver), but Housing prices have been steadily increasing in the last few Years. Depending on where you live, it is a GREAT place for kids-and, if, unfortuneatly, you have a problem child, Utah has a vast amount of Programs for helping kids (up through 21). Good Schools by and large. I think I would buy a House, if possible,as I don't think the Housing appreciation is over.

Stay away from West Valley City by and large-you will find the better areas are the Northeast part of any Town (I don't know why this is, but a Realtor once told me this and it has proven to true most of the time)-

Fortunately, my duaghter is the perfect angel and has no problems whatsoever.

[BMF Bronco]

3x the money would convince me.

Not to mention you could marry all the girls from the Mane you wanted!

LOL

hahaha, good point :thumbsup: :pimp:

[Sassy]

Your daughter isn't a teen yet~! ;D

[smalltowngrll]

3x the money would convince me.

Not to mention you could marry all the girls from the Mane you wanted!

LOL

ROFL! You always find the bright spots, now don't you freak!?? Ha!

[DomCasual]

Well, it's probably the most Mormon city in the world, next to Provo. I'm not saying that negatively - I'm an active Mormon just twenty miles up the road. But it would be a consideration for me, especially if I wasn't Mormon.

It's great for kids. I have heard some non-Mormons talk about how hard it was living in a place with such a predominance of Mormons. I have never seen it, though - you get out of it what you put into it. I think a lot of people go into it with a chip on their shoulder to begin with. And when you're looking for reasons to be offended (in any culture), you'll usually find them.

That said, I wouldn't live in Orem (or anywhere in Utah County, for that matter). Salt Lake City and the southern suburbs are far more diverse, and the commute would only be about 15 - 20 minutes, from the closest suburbs. You could be my neighbor, man! Just keep the noise down, and don't play any of that blasted rock and roll music these rotten kids keep playing these days.

Cost of living is reasonable. Housing prices continue to skyrocket here - almost the opposite of national averages lately. It might be a good investment to buy. Then again, they might crash right after you buy. The economy here is pretty good, though.

What's the company - do you mind me asking?

[smalltowngrll]

Regarding renting vs. purchasing a home...

I've always been told, and I HIGHLY recommend that when you are moving to a new city, town, etc, that you spend at least the first 6 months renting. Get a feel for the area, figure out which side of town you like (it differs from person to person) and find out if the location is a place you really want to set roots in (at least 5 year roots).

[Spider]

Beats the hell out of Yuma Arizona ....... Cheaper then Bozeman .... not as pretty though , but if you can get work there ........ put the dog on the roof of the station wagon and haul ass ;D

[freak6]

ROFL! You always find the bright spots, now don't you freak!?? Ha!

Oh, my bad, you weren't supposed to see that!

Bright spots are everywhere! It's my bday so despite the state of the union I am in a good mood. When I die, I hope it's like these guys!

http://angelingo.usc.edu/vol03issue01/culture/graphics/g_joke1.jpg

"Always look on, the bright side of life..."

Great movie, The Life of Brian.

What's up with these single dads raising daughters in Montana? Crazyness. In Utah, your daughter's friends will peer pressure her to NOT drink or do drugs!
3x the money will change your life! Plus Salt Lake is a big city, so it'll offer city fun, and close to the outdoors too.

I actually spent about an hour in a chat room from lds.com, the mormon website, talking to a counselor about being mormon, posing like I wanted to, and I brought up alot of stuff, like how Brigham Young said "If you seed with a negro, the penalty will be death and this will ALWAYS be true".

Those people are in total denial and personally, the fact they make up so much of the population there would definitely keep me from taking the job.

[DomCasual]

I actually spent about an hour in a chat room from lds.com, the mormon website, talking to a counselor about being mormon, posing like I wanted to, and I brought up alot of stuff, like how Brigham Young said "If you seed with a negro, the penalty will be death and this will ALWAYS be true".

Those people are in total denial and personally, the fact they make up so much of the population there would definitely keep me from taking the job.

So, you wouldn't take a job for 3X the money because you wouldn't want to be around Mormons.

and...

You, a non-Mormon, spent an hour the other day in a Mormon chatroom talking to a counselor about "being mormon, posing like (you) wanted to?"

You sound like a boy (intellectually speaking) that has his head on straight. hmmm...

But, this isn't a thread about the Mormons - so I digress.

[RkyMtnThunder]

Triple your salary?!?

Unless the cost of living is 3x as much as where you are comin from (doubtful) - go for it!


BTW - congrats!

[SoonerBronco]

So, you wouldn't take a job for 3X the money because you wouldn't want to be around Mormons.

and...

You, a non-Mormon, spent an hour the other day in a Mormon chatroom talking to a counselor about "being mormon, posing like (you) wanted to?"

You sound like a boy (intellectually speaking) that has his head on straight. hmmm...

But, this isn't a thread about the Mormons - so I digress.

Different Strokes for Different folks...

Seriously thought BMF, there are many worse places you could end up working...like Lawton, OK...

[BMF Bronco]

Well, it's probably the most Mormon city in the world, next to Provo. I'm not saying that negatively - I'm an active Mormon just twenty miles up the road. But it would be a consideration for me, especially if I wasn't Mormon.

It's great for kids. I have heard some non-Mormons talk about how hard it was living in a place with such a predominance of Mormons. I have never seen it, though - you get out of it what you put into it. I think a lot of people go into it with a chip on their shoulder to begin with. And when you're looking for reasons to be offended (in any culture), you'll usually find them.

That said, I wouldn't live in Orem (or anywhere in Utah County, for that matter). Salt Lake City and the southern suburbs are far more diverse, and the commute would only be about 15 - 20 minutes, from the closest suburbs. You could be my neighbor, man! Just keep the noise down, and don't play any of that blasted rock and roll music these rotten kids keep playing these days.

Cost of living is reasonable. Housing prices continue to skyrocket here - almost the opposite of national averages lately. It might be a good investment to buy. Then again, they might crash right after you buy. The economy here is pretty good, though.

What's the company - do you mind me asking?

I put it in your rep comments. Yeah, I was there in Orem yesterday and it seemed like a cool place, I love how the mountains jut right out of the city! It totally reminds me of Bozeman, as that's what they do here!

[BMF Bronco]

Triple your salary?!?

Unless the cost of living is 3x as much as where you are comin from (doubtful) - go for it!


BTW - congrats!

Thanks, but like I said, I haven't officially gotten the job just yet, so I hope I didn't jinx myself with this thread.

[Spider]

Slap out Oklahoma ........... Rosewell New Mexico .......Stratford texas .... Oshoto wyoming .... Grover Colorado .......

[smalltowngrll]

Slap out Oklahoma ........... Rosewell New Mexico .......Stratford texas .... Oshoto wyoming .... Grover Colorado .......

ROFL! Have you lived in all those places?

[Jens1893]

Would you be moving with little Miss Sunshine, BMF? Best of luck!

[Spider]

ROFL! Have you lived in all those places?

no drove through them as fast as I could ;D
But back when I was Bull hauling for Bell Creek , I went to these places

[Jens1893]

Slap out Oklahoma ........... Rosewell New Mexico .......Stratford texas .... Oshoto wyoming .... Grover Colorado .......

You forgot Bend, Oregon and Casper, Wyoming :~ohyah!:

[Spider]

Just in case you are wondering Oshoto is Arapaho for stormy day.. but it is a few ranches with miles and miles of hay fields Slapout Oklahoma is alot bigger ;D

[smalltowngrll]

no drove through them as fast as I could ;D
But back when I was Bull hauling for Bell Creek , I went to these places

They all sound kinda scary. I've driven through Roswell and stayed in a few places in New Mexico. Nice to visit, but I don't know if I could get used to living there. I think I'm just spoiled with loving where I live!

[SoonerBronco]

Slap out Oklahoma ........... Rosewell New Mexico .......Stratford texas .... Oshoto wyoming .... Grover Colorado .......

Slap out! Not everyday do you get a slap out reference. Thanks Spider!

[Spider]

You forgot Bend, Oregon and Casper, Wyoming :~ohyah!:

Casper is great , best place ever ......... if you are oil patch trash ;D

[smalltowngrll]

You forgot Bend, Oregon and Casper, Wyoming :~ohyah!:

(Where is the hands on the hip and that sarcastic little side eye look when you need it)

Bend, OR?? Nope, best place EVAH!!! :wave: ;) :yayaya:

Never been to Wyoming, though! :)

[Jens1893]

They all sound kinda scary. I've driven through Roswell and stayed in a few places in New Mexico. Nice to visit, but I don't know if I could get used to living there. I think I'm just spoiled with loving where I live!

New Mexico must be a nightmare. I know someone from the 4 corners region and she hates it.

[DomCasual]

I put it in your rep comments. Yeah, I was there in Orem yesterday and it seemed like a cool place, I love how the mountains jut right out of the city! It totally reminds me of Bozeman, as that's what they do here!

Yeah, that's kind of cool. I've bemoaned on here before about the lack of trees. But if you ski, the resorts are really, really close.

I used to have a real attitude about Utah - even as a Mormon. I kind of resented having to live here (my wife wasn't happy in Colorado), and I griped and moaned a lot. I have come to appreciate certain aspects of the place, though - especially as it pertains to my kids. Of course, kids have problems here, like everyplace else. But as freak mentioned earlier (whether or not he was serious), the general pull among kids here is more for good than bad.

My brother was out last week (from Larkspur), and his remark was, "Everything that there is to do here seems to be geared towards the family." I couldn't have summarized it better if I had tried. I love my family more than anything else in my life - I think everybody is like that, for the most part. I like that the culture here gives me natural excuses to spend more time with them, rather than away from them.

[Kaylore]

I don't care for Utah personally, but there are worse places you could go. If you do go, when the weather sucks you can just drive up the canyon and few minutes and the weather will be nice and sunny. The mountains are pretty and the people are nice, if a little strange. Orem pretty much is Provo. It's like two towns that have grown together. Yeah the locals act like there is some kind of difference, but there isn't. Also, get ready for some lame Jazz commercials.

[Spider]

They all sound kinda scary. I've driven through Roswell and stayed in a few places in New Mexico. Nice to visit, but I don't know if I could get used to living there. I think I'm just spoiled with loving where I live!

all kidding aside ... damn good people in these places ........ Americana for them ..... 1 thing about my Job 22 years of it , I have been there ;D

[Spider]

Slap out! Not everyday do you get a slap out reference. Thanks Spider!

;D I was going to say Beaver Oklahoma , but who can not like the cow chip throwing Capitiol of the world :welcome:

[Spider]

New Mexico must be a nightmare. I know someone from the 4 corners region and she hates it.

New Mexico ...... it is alright , just stay west , and watch out if you are in Hatch ......... Dont do a spider ;D

[DomCasual]

I don't care for Utah personally, but there are worse places you could go. If you do go, when the weather sucks you can just drive up the canyon and few minutes and the weather will be nice and sunny. The mountains are pretty and the people are nice, if a little strange. Orem pretty much is Provo. It's like two towns that have grown together. Yeah the locals act like there is some kind of difference, but there isn't. Also, get ready for some lame Jazz commercials.

That's funny about all those Utah County towns. They are SO homogeneous, but saying so is grossly offensive to them. My wife is from Spanish Fork. Spanish Fork people talk about Payson (a few miles up I-15) like it's Hillbilly USA. My response is always, "Yeah, but when you're from a cultural mecca like Spanish Freaking Fork, it's hard not to see everyplace as Hillybilly USA." ::)

[Spider]

That's funny about all those Utah County towns. They are SO homogeneous, but saying so is grossly offensive to them. My wife is from Spanish Fork. Spanish Fork people talk about Payson (a few miles up I-15) like it's Hillbilly USA. My response is always, "Yeah, but when you're from a cultural mecca like Spanish Freaking Fork, it's hard not to see everyplace as Hillybilly USA." ::)

The Flying J at Spanish forks got me one hellva ticket . their Scales are off .... but you know the country well , we was moving Grey Wolf 511 out of Indianola ..... P.S. I was on Highway 6 when that truck loaded with Dynomite went over and blew out a section of the highway ....... Thought I bought the farm that day

[SoonerBronco]

;D I was going to say Beaver Oklahoma , but who can not like the cow chip throwing Capitiol of the world :welcome:

We also have Wapanucka! and Bowlegs!

[Spider]

We also have Wapanucka! and Bowlegs!

LOL ...... another thing , you guys have some great country cooking and hospitality ...... Maybe they treat me different cause I am a trucker , and truckers spend money , but I love the food and the people there ......

[DomCasual]

The Flying J at Spanish forks got me one hellva ticket . their Scales are off .... but you know the country well , we was moving Grey Wolf 511 out of Indianola ..... P.S. I was on Highway 6 when that truck loaded with Dynomite went over and blew out a section of the highway ....... Thought I bought the farm that day

No kidding! I remember that! We drove out to Denver a few days later, and they had shut the whole highway down (or, in this case, the "lack of highway" :) ). I'm pretty sure that stretch of highway is the deadliest road in Utah. I've had some close calls in there, just on the trips I've made back and forth to Denver (I tried to figure out the other day how many times I have driven it - I figured it's at least 50 round trips).

From what I remember, that moron was driving WAY too fast. Note to self: when you are driving on a winding, high-traffic road with a truck-full of dynamite - DON'T SPEED! :bomb:

[Sodak]

The liquor laws do suck. No kidding.

Welcome to Utah: the only theocracy east of Iran.

[Spider]

No kidding! I remember that! We drove out to Denver a few days later, and they had shut the whole highway down (or, in this case, the "lack of highway" :) ). I'm pretty sure that stretch of highway is the deadliest road in Utah. I've had some close calls in there, just on the trips I've made back and forth to Denver (I tried to figure out the other day how many times I have driven it - I figured it's at least 50 round trips).

From what I remember, that moron was driving WAY too fast. Note to self: when you are driving on a winding, high-traffic road with a truck-full of dynamite - DON'T SPEED! :bomb:

6 is bad ass , but 191 between helper and the flaming gorge is worse ..........But yeah he was haulin ass , passed me , but then I have respect for Highway 6 , most accidents I have seen on that road involving someone crossing over the yellow line .......I saw the swift driver get hit by a car , Swift lost control after the hit , went off road , hot a DOT shed , caught fire ..... we was shut down for a couple of hours .......

[Spider]

oh and when the road blew away , they routed us down a dirt road outside of thistle Jct ( if I remember right ) on to the paved road into Indianola .... or maybe it was out by Yabbos more .. by the way stop at Yabbos , he is a buddy of mine , great food at great prices ......

[Los Broncos]

I lived in SLC for a while.

It was way back when, good luck finding a place and be happy.

[BroncosMT]

Beats the hell out of Yuma Arizona ....... Cheaper then Bozeman .... not as pretty though , but if you can get work there ........ put the dog on the roof of the station wagon and haul ass ;D

Hey now I live in Yuma....and having come from Montana the COL is much more. It is ok here but the income taxes will kill ya! The scenery is nice with some hills they call mountains and mangy wildlife...but I like to call it home..for now

[freak6]

So, you wouldn't take a job for 3X the money because you wouldn't want to be around Mormons.
Yes. They/you are insane if you seriously believe that Joe Smith had some gold plates (never seen), and translated them using rocks, into a faith where Israelites crossed the Atlantic to the Amazon. Did I mention the witnesses testified that it was all a lie?

How about the fact that what he used to translate into his "Book of Abraham" is Egyptian Hyroglyphics which of course make no mention of Abraham, and furthermore once actually translated are nothing even remotely close to the story that Joe Smith pretended it said.
<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/hcyzkd_m6KE"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/hcyzkd_m6KE" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

and...

You, a non-Mormon, spent an hour the other day in a Mormon chatroom talking to a counselor about "being mormon, posing like (you) wanted to?"

It's called doing research. If you go to the official LDS website, you can chat directly to a missionary at BYU. I confronted him with all of this, he had no answers whatsoever.

When I pressed him about what <b>Brigham Young</b> (you Dom Casual convieniently left that part of my post out I noticed) said about how

<b>"the penalty for seeding with a negro will be death, and this will ALWAYS be so", </b>

he refused to talk about it, and refused to say that what he said was wrong. I asked him if he believed that people should be put to death for seeding with a black person, he said of course not. I asked him then was Brigham Young wrong, and he changed the subject and said God was speaking to him, <b>and that at sometime only some races recieved the blessings of God.</b>

Also, DNA evidence completely debunked his absurd stories. Ask BYU, they did the study themselves!!! LOL

I could not live among the insane for any amount of money.

[DomCasual]

It's called doing research. If you go to the official LDS website, you can chat directly to a missionary at BYU. I confronted him with all of this, he had no answers whatsoever.

No, you said you went in acting like you were investigating the LDS church ("talking to a counselor about being mormon, posing like I wanted to") - a whole lot different than being some sort of crusader for the cause, as you are making yourself out to be.

he refused to talk about it, and refused to say that what he said was wrong. I asked him if he believed that people should be put to death for seeding with a black person, he said of course not. I asked him then was Brigham Young wrong, and he changed the subject and said God was speaking to him, and that at sometime only some races recieved the blessings of God.

I could not live among the insane for any amount of money.

Let's be clear - you were chatting with a 19-year-old missionary, in all likelihood. For one thing, 19-year-olds don't have all the answers - to any subject. But more importantly, LDS missionaries are instructed not to get into contentious debates. They don't lead anywhere except to anger, frustration, and more contention; and are just a waste of time for everyone involved. You probably mistook courtesy for weakness.

I won't debate religion with you, because I don't believe you are sincere in your curiosity about it. You have proven that over and over again. Plus, it's impossible to have a reasonable discussion about any subject when dealing with someone hindered by a combination of two things: a relative lack of intelligence, and a sincere belief that he or she already has all the answers. That's pretty much you, in a nutshell.

Plus, this isn't a thread about religious philosophy. BMF had some questions about moving. You went outside the realm of a reasonable response by thumping your chest regarding your intellectual might. One day, when you get all grown-up and stuff, you'll realize that one of the characteristics of intellectual might is not having to tell people how mighty you are.

[freak6]

A relative lack of intelligence, and a sincere belief that he or she already has all the answers. That's pretty much you.


Watch the movie yourself psycho.

I'm going to go pray to Mount St. Elway (a hill here in San Diego that an angel named MORON told me was where the Africans flew thier ancient flying machines before settling the Americas) for you now.

And if you don't believe me, here is all my EVIDENCE PROVING I AM RIGHT!!!!!!!
http://www.crystalinks.com/ancientaircraft.html
See the ancient hierocopter, and hierosubmarine, and even the hieroglider they took to get to America!!

[Malcontent]

Beats the hell out of Yuma Arizona ....... Cheaper then Bozeman .... not as pretty though , but if you can get work there ........ put the dog on the roof of the station wagon and haul ass ;D

Death Valley beats the he** outta Yuma AZ.

[azbroncfan]

That's funny about all those Utah County towns. They are SO homogeneous, but saying so is grossly offensive to them. My wife is from Spanish Fork. Spanish Fork people talk about Payson (a few miles up I-15) like it's Hillbilly USA. My response is always, "Yeah, but when you're from a cultural mecca like Spanish Freaking Fork, it's hard not to see everyplace as Hillybilly USA." ::)


That is pretty funny as I grew up in the big mecca of springville. Well the only thing that Springville, Spanish Fork, Payson are a mecca for is heroine use for young kids around the JR high age. Now I don't know about how the problem is in other cities outside of Utah County but it would be hard to convince me that it is much worse.

[DomCasual]

Watch the movie yourself psycho.

I'm going to go pray to Mount St. Elway (a hill here in San Diego that an angel named MORON told me was where the Africans flew thier ancient flying machines before settling the Americas) for you now.

And if you don't believe me, here is all my EVIDENCE PROVING I AM RIGHT!!!!!!!
http://www.crystalinks.com/ancientaircraft.html
See the ancient hierocopter, and hierosubmarine, and even the hieroglider they took to get to America!!

You're drinking, aren't you?

[gunns]

It's great for kids. I have heard some non-Mormons talk about how hard it was living in a place with such a predominance of Mormons. I have never seen it, though - you get out of it what you put into it. I think a lot of people go into it with a chip on their shoulder to begin with. And when you're looking for reasons to be offended (in any culture), you'll usually find them.

This is very true. And he's right about Utah County. That community is beginning to grow and get some crime but overall a very safe community. I think housing prices are out of sight for what you get but they are expected to begin falling in 6 months to a year. You're not going to touch anything really nice for under 300,000.

Thing is if you're worried about the Mormon culture, they are some of the best people on earth, they just have the bads ones like any other culture. A lot of people live in SLC and commute. Out where Dom lives is very nice and close to skiing, there's also West Jordan and South Jordan which are family communities. I agree on not living in West Valley, but you could also try Sugarhouse, where I live although it's not quite the family community. :wave:

[Kaylore]

You're drinking, aren't you?

Freak6 is pretty much insane. He's obsessed with Bush hating, which hardly makes him unique, but he's very scared of things that challenge his beliefs. This is because while he likes to play the big man that "fights" his opponents, he's really a scared little man that is horribly insecure. Him trying to turn a thread where someone is trying to get information for a potential move into a religion bashing thread makes him also a troll.

[Spider]

Death Valley beats the he** outta Yuma AZ.

LOL
Hey now I live in Yuma....and having come from Montana the COL is much more. It is ok here but the income taxes will kill ya! The scenery is nice with some hills they call mountains and mangy wildlife...but I like to call it home..for now
back in 88 or 89 , took a load of cattle down there Ed Dugan /aka Greeley Truck lines , I was a youngster back then , but I wont forget the heat ..... couldnt touch the door handle on my truck without gloves . if you can hang in the heat more power to you ;D

[gunns]

The liquor laws do suck. No kidding.

Welcome to Utah: the only theocracy east of Iran.

While the liquor laws loosened during the Olympics the main one that sucks is the one ounce of liquor when you buy a drink. I guess I'm used to it, I just go to the liquor store and buy what booze I want. I do miss the minibottles.

[freak6]

Freak6 is pretty much insane. This coming from someone that believes a guy transcribed 2nd generation hieroglyphs (no such thing) using magic stones placed in his hat (err) which he couldn't translate twice, and all the witnesses testified he was lying, for which he was eventually killed, is the holy one who god speaks through!!!

Hilarious! I am insane...OK. Go on....

He's obsessed with Bush hating, which hardly makes him unique, Not unique, no, but smarter than most, as I have been saying Bush should have been thrown out long ago, and I have been proven absolutely correct, everything I say is fact, and usually far ahead of the curve in most matters.

but he's very scared of things that challenge his beliefs. This is because while he likes to play the big man that "fights" his opponents, he's really a scared little man that is horribly insecure.

Insecure? Scared? Not so much kid. I am a cocky Sgt of Marines who will destroy anyone in any debate, on the court, on the field, or in a fight.

Why no comment on the movie and the facts about the lies that Joe Smith told while pretending to read hieroglyphs that he made up an entire goofy religion only morons would believe in?

Because I just used the same idiotic logic that Joe Smith used to brainwash people before they unceremoniously killed him for it. to show how stupid your "religion" is.

I used the exact same logic, and you can say nothing but

"you must be drinking"

and

"he's horribly insecure and scared"

The ones that are SCARED are YOU because I have just DESTROYED your religion on this thread. And that is why you don't comment on the facts, and immediately turn to attacking me.

Was <b>Brigham Young right?</b>

When he said

<b> "The penalty for seeding with a negro will be death, and it will ALWAYS be so". </b>

That was <i>the voice of God that told Brigham Young, was it not? </i>

<b>God did speak through Brigham Young correct, the guy that married over and over and over and over...said that if you seed with a negro, the penalty is death. </b>

Nice!

The whole religion is B.S..

<b>The "scientists" at BYU are so stupid they went and proved thier entire religion impossible themselves analyzing D.N.A. from Native Americans. </b>

This would have been thier undoing, except for the fact their followers are actually unbelievably more ignorant and or brainwashed then the ones that did the study.

[Kaylore]

If you want to debate Mormonism (which you don't. You only want to bash) then you should start a thread in the religion and politics forum. Otherwise, why don't you quit trolling this one? This thread has nothing to do with the LDS faith or its doctrines. You know for someone who likes to accuse religion of forcing their beliefs down peoples' throats, around here you sure are a pro at it.

And Anubis, this is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. ;)

[freak6]

If you want to debate Mormonism (which you don't. You only want to bash) then you should start a thread in the religion and politics forum. Otherwise, why don't you quit trolling this one? This thread has nothing to do with the LDS.


Excuse me, all I said was that I couldn't move there because of the brainwashed insane zombies called mormons that live there. Then to justify that stance, I show how they are insane because I'm not going to label an entire society insane without proving it. Dom Casual brought on the rest.

But I'll leave your cult alone.

<B>Besides, I have to get back to praying to Mt. Saint Elway, hopefully tonight the angel MORON will come to me and teach me more about the ways the African tribe known as Hixonites flew thier hierocopters accross the Atlantic and settled the Americas!!!</b>

Check out the hieroglyphs Joseph Mecklensharpe translated to PROVE IT!!!

lmfao!!!

OWNED!!!

[DomCasual]

I am a cocky Sgt of Marines who will destroy anyone in any debate, on the court, on the field, or in a fight.

You realize that everyone is laughing at you, right? Nevermind, you probably don't. Ego and ignorance are great insulators.

Here are some other subjects of literature/videos produced by the same people who produced the "movie" you posted earlier (they seems to be equal opportunity haters and condemner - so that's good.:

-the Catholic church is the church of Satan (and they seriously debate whether the Pope is the anti-christ - you'll be relieved to know that they determine he's "likely not" :giggle: );

-Jehovah's Witnesses, Catholics, Masons, Seventh-Day Adventists (what the heck did they do? ??? ), and Pentecostals are all Cults;

-a woman's place is in the home. A woman who works is a woman who is outside of God's will;

-women who have had abortions are murderers, under any circumstances;

-a person cannot be a Christian and do yoga (no, really - I couldn't make something like that up :) );

-that blasted rock n' roll music is a tool of the devil to lead innocent youth to devil worship. Their tool? Subliminal messages in songs - usually subtly run as a backward message during a song.

-there is a very good chance the anti-christ is alive and on the earth today, and he's probably going to come from the European Union. Oh, wait - he's very likely also homosexual;

-speaking of those homosexuals, they are all perverts whose perversions have carried them to desiring sex with members of their own gender.

They have videos and literature that proves all of these things. Do you believe in those, too, freak? Or are these people only credible when they talk about Mormons? Oh, and don't forget that they are very likely among the 26% (or whatever it is) that feel positively about the job George W has done. That's got to be pretty distasteful to you, right?

Would have been great if they would have had one official from the Mormon church on their video - for balance, you know? It's a novel concept: getting information about something from the source itself.

[DomCasual]

Who knew that freak was anti-yoga? And that the Catholic church is the :devil: church? And I listen to rock a lot - especially classic rock. I trust you freak. How bad is it? Am I a pawn of the devil, at this point?

[freak6]

Would have been great if they would have had one official from the Mormon church on their video - for balance, you know? It's a novel concept: getting information about something from the source itself.

All the information from the source is in the video. Joseph Smith chronicled it.

The Book of Abraham is all made up. The hieroglyphs Smith purchased have nothing to do with what Joseph Smith said they did. He lied. He made it up.

The hieroglyphs are about Egyptian burial rights, nothing more. He used them trick people, was prosecuted, found guilty, and then killed by a mob.

Whether or not the makers of the video have made other videos that I do or do not agree with has NOTHING to do with the facts in the video, which YOU CANNOT DISPROVE.

Facts don't change Dom.

DNA doesn't change Dom.

Question - <b>Who did the DNA study disproving the book of Abraham </b>which Joseph Smith made up due to his inability to read hieroglyphs yet desperate enough to lie to start his own religion?

Answer - <b>BYU</b>

I'm more interested in Brigham Young. Why won't you answer me?

Brigham Young was the voice of God according to your faith.

<b>Brigham Young said "If you seed with a negro, the punishment is death, and this will ALWAYS be true" </b>

Was he lying, wrong, was it satan, what?

Talk to me about the Book of Abraham, and how every Egyptologist in the world will tell you that the papryus and wood that Joseph Smith allegedly "translated", has absolutely NOTHING to do with what he said it did.

I'm out for the night.

<b>I have to get to praying to Mt. Saint Elway,I'm sure you understand.

Hopefully tonight the angel MORON will come to me and teach me more about the ways the African tribe known as Hixonites flew thier hierocopters accross the Atlantic and settled the Americas!!!</b>

Check out the hieroglyphs Joseph Mecklensharpe translated to PROVE IT!!!

lmfao!!

SOUND FAMILIAR???

OWNED!

[24champ]

Who knew that freak was anti-yoga? And that the Catholic church is the :devil: church? And I listen to rock a lot - especially classic rock. I trust you freak. How bad is it? Am I a pawn of the devil, at this point?

No way! You mean to tell me I've been going to the Devils Church this whole time! :rofl:

[DomCasual]

No way! You mean to tell me I've been going to the Devils Church this whole time! :rofl:

That's what I'm thinkin', man! And what's worse - your leader may and may not be the most evil person in the history of mankind!

Seriously, man - maybe you should sit down. Take some deep breaths.

[bronclvr]

Fortunately, my duaghter is the perfect angel and has no problems whatsoever.

Good for you-I will say this about Mormon vs. non-Mormon-I am not Mormon (nor is my Wife), but we have had some really wonderful relationships with people in Utah County (most of them being Mormon), and my Wife's Boss kept telling her that we were "dry Mormons" (meaning that we shared a lot of their beliefs-well, there are a few that I don't share, but it's o.k.). I never felt oppressed in my Work (but I was the Boss), and outside of work I did not feel pressure (after all, Utah is a part of the United States, right?)-and all of this happened in Utah County.

I will never forget that when we moved into my new House that the Neighborhood showed up and moved me into my House-that blew me away. The only Neighbor problems that I ever had was some nitwit who moved there from California-we reached an "understanding". I really think it has to do with your Morals and Ethics-if you are a generally good person who is Family oriented, it's a great place. If you are a Partier, well, maybe not so good. The only negative thing I have to say about the Wasatch front is the Drivers-I think they are the worst in the Nation (including California)-

[Hogan11]

I don't care for Utah personally, but there are worse places you could go.

Outside of Kentucky, I honestly can't think of any.

I've been on record as hating Utah for years....nothing to do with Mormonism really, I just can't stand the sulfer smell of the lake and I don't wanna be in any place that has liquor laws like they have.....screw that. I've been through the state once, it made me literally ill (an intense sulfer smell makes me go into nausea mode) and I have no plans on ever.....ever going back.

[orange 4 life]

Okay, let me preface this by saying I just hope to crap I don't jinx myself.

However, I interviewed with a company there yesterday and it went extremely well, however, they initially were going to allow me to stay here in Bozeman and telecommute, but that seems to be fading with the sun. So what does everyone know about it and is it worth moving there if it will increase my salary three-fold? I am serious here, I don't want jokes about becoming a Mormon or the lack of alcohol there, I am looking for anwers to questions like, what's the cost of living, is it safe for kids, should I rent or buy, etc. Please fill me in.

thanks in advance.

best of luck, and i think its a wonderful place for kids.

there are some people who feel a bit uncomfortable because theyre NOT mormon and feel like theyre pressured by those that are, but that wasnt my experience at all.
great people, nice towns, affordable living, and a wonderful place to raise kids. just my .02

jake

[orange 4 life]

I really think it has to do with your Morals and Ethics-if you are a generally good person who is Family oriented, it's a great place. If you are a Partier, well, maybe not so good.

i really think this says it best.

[Cosmo]

Ok, first & foremost I think I could stand Utah if I got 3x the pay I am receiving now, so that has to be considered. However, I have lived in California, Colorado, Illinois, Virginia, Utah & Argentina and have visited many other places. I will give you a list of goods & bads. You should know that I am Mormon & semi active in the church, you might think that will make my view off, but you will see it is not.

Bads:

- Average education system, I can't say its all bad, but I must say the communications skill of people here is awful. I thought when I moved here 2 years ago that the education system would be good, just assumed it. I was wrong.

- Drivers, beyond awful. They dont signal, they speed up when you try to change lanes, they run reds, they cut you off, they have no common courtesy whatsoever. I have never been in a state with worse drivers. They take their drivers test open book, so they dont even have to know a damn thing to get their license. Hardly any highway patrolmen to issue tickets, so nothing changes. Rubbernecking is ridiculous, they slow down to watch someone get a ticket, let alone a car accident.

- Personalities. Friendly but backbiting, they have been raised to welcome their neighbors and smile, etc. However, they gossip like their is no end to tomorrow. Keep in mind that most families here have been here for generations and YOU are an outsider. They have plenty of friends & family already, no need to make another. Going to church is a pain in the ass, as they are judging as hell. I grow a beard & somehow I feel like a sinner. The people have no tact either, they'll use their church terms right in front of a non-member without even thinking about it. They aren't all bad, but 1/2 the time you'll find those that you get along with aren't from here or have no family history of being mormon.

- Housing. Housing costs are rising and as a result a lot of the housing is built horribly. I have never seen more vinyl siding or fences in my life. Basements are nice, I do enjoy that and missed them horribly when I was in california. Overall you really have to search for a good builder or you'll end up with a poorly built house not worth its cost. Stay away from West Valley! I have a friend that has a 10 year old daughter that got beat up by group of girls in a gang, which you might find in other parts of the country. However, when this was reported to the school, the principal did nothing about it, saying there were no witnesses and she could have just fallen. Even though she had 2 black eyes, and her face and hands were scrapped up as if she had been dragged on the pavement. West Valley, Magna, some parts of West Jordan are all bad. Not just for crime, but everything about them.

- Weather. If you're not used to snow in the winter, get ready for it. Your car will be covered in salt, as they throw it down everywhere. It can get fairly dusty/windy during the spring and damn hot during the summer. Very very dry, You'll need a water softener or you'll have cracked skin during the winter, trust me, this is not fun. There are worse places to live weather wise, but it might be a major change for you.

- Politics. Republican, republican & more republican. Its so damn conservative that I had to switch to democrat here even though in Cali I voted republican. Just think of how right wing one can be, and you'll have Utah. Its a right to work state, and people do nothing to change that. I have never seen such repressed, unhappy workers in my life, yet they do nothing about it. They just take it. Everything about this state will be republican for a long time. So, expect laws that do not protect the environment, the blue collar worker, education, etc. I've always appreciated a balance between the 2 parties. There is no such thing here & its disturbing.


Good :

- Family. Because of the moron population there is a lot of emphasis on family, with quite a bit of activities & community things to do with them. I haven't taken much advantage of this while here, but I know it does exist.

- Geneology. You want to do it, there is no better place in the world for it.

- Scenery. Its beautiful here, lots of mountians.

- Ski. You like skiing, there is no better place. I however am not a skier, so this wasn't a big thing for me.



Well, I can't think of much more in regards to good here. I have thoroughly disliked this state and am moving in 2 weeks back to Colorado. I enjoyed California, with all the problems that exist there more than I have enjoyed it here. 3x the pay is good, but this state will frustrate you in one way or another. So, I hope you enjoy money.

[DomCasual]

Well, I can't think of much more in regards to good here. I have thoroughly disliked this state and am moving in 2 weeks back to Colorado. I enjoyed California, with all the problems that exist there more than I have enjoyed it here. 3x the pay is good, but this state will frustrate you in one way or another. So, I hope you enjoy money.

I can't disagree with much of that, but I still think most people get out of it what they put into it. I'll give you personal example.

I also have a beard, and I guess I am considered "eccentric" by a lot of my neighbors. The Broncos thing weirds them out, for one thing. They hear stories about it, and it's honestly started creating some of our very own neighborhood urban legends (a story for another time). Honestly, I had an attitude about the place the first three or four years we lived here. I would have described it almost the exact way you eloquently did above.

A few things changed. First, I got a calling (Mormon-speak for a job in the local congregation, for those not familiar with Mormon terminology) that required me to attend church every week. I don't really like going to church all that much, to be honest; so it was always pretty easy for me to find an excuse not to go. Once I started having to go, I started getting to know people (again, for non-Mormons reading this, the church sets up congregations based on geography - the people in your local congregation are generally also your neighbors). Once I started getting to know people, familiarity begot friendships. The other thing was a combination of my wife getting really sick, and eventually having our daughter. We were barraged with meals, offers to come help clean, offers for babysitting, etc. And it's not just because we're Mormon. My wife has taken over several meals to non-Mormons in our neighborhood, when the need has arrived. I've also spent time helping non-Mormons with moving in and out of the neighborhood.

Now granted, a lot of this is unique to a specific neighborhood; but that's the case whether you live in Utah, or elsewhere. I'm just saying that I experienced the gamut in the same neighborhood. The main thing that changed was my participation. Now, we would have a hard time moving - we really love the neighborhood we're in.

[SoonerBronco]

What's with all the Mormon hate? Listen, you may not believe what they do, but outright hate is plain wrong whether your white, black, Catholic, Protestant, Mormon, Jehovah's Witness, Republican, or Democrat. Seriously, you are not debating freak, you are bashing.

Dom, Kaylore, and any other Mormons here. I have had nothing but good expierences with those of your faith. They are a credit to it as are you. Just keep reading the Bible daily. :thumbs:

[bronco610]

"Judge Not, Lest You Be Judged". Just my opinion, oh well!!!

[DomCasual]

What's with all the Mormon hate? Listen, you may not believe what they do, but outright hate is plain wrong whether your white, black, Catholic, Protestant, Mormon, Jehovah's Witness, Republican, or Democrat. Seriously, you are not debating freak, you are bashing.

Dom, Kaylore, and any other Mormons here. I have had nothing but good expierences with those of your faith. They are a credit to it as are you. Just keep reading the Bible daily. :thumbs:

Thanks, man. That's great of you to say. I'll say this, though. I know Khan served an LDS mission, and I served an LDS mission. Not sure about Orange 4 Life, or any of the others on here. But the fact is, you get a pretty thick skin on a mission. The freaks of the world (no pun intended, sort of) are a dime a dozen. If I woke up on the wrong side of the bed some morning when I was serving, I might engage them - it was a good energy release. Otherwise, I just steered clear. My motto was always, "Be respectful, and assume people will reciprocate." For 99% of the people I met, that worked just fine. For the rest? Not so good.

[SoonerBronco]

Don't mention it guys...I'm one of Jehovah's Witnesses, so I meet the cooks of the world every weekend when I go out in service.... :)

[freak6]

It doesn't change the fact the basis of thier religion is a complete lie.

So last night the Angel named MORON came to me while I prayed on Mount St. Elway.

He told me that the <b>Hixonites</b> indeed did travel via thier hierocopters from Egypt to the Americas which they settled.

Although DNA evidence <b>BYU executed</b> completely refutes this, the Angel named MORON said it to me on <i>Mount St. Elway</i>, so it must be true.

Besides, the prophet <b>Joseph Mecklensharpe</b> translated these hieroglyphs he bought from from some random person, and he said they explain how they crossed the Atlantic. Makes perfect sense to me.

Now my mission is to spread the world around the world.

The only difference between me and <b>Mormons</b> is that the 2nd President of my religion, <b>Brigisham Atwaterberg</b> never taught this law, but Brigham Young got this from <i>Heavenly Father,</i> so who are we to question him.

<b>"The penalty for seeding with a NEGRO will be death, and it will ALWAYS be so" - Brigham Young</b>

Anyway, if you don't believe me, just witness the hieroglyphs <b>Joseph Mecklensharpe </b>translated for yourself. They clearly depict the crafts the <b>Hixonites </b>used to cross the Atlantic from Egypt.

Sound familiar?

LMFAO!!!

[SoonerBronco]

It doesn't change the fact the basis of thier religion is a complete lie.

So last night the Angel named MORON came to me while I prayed on Mount St. Elway.

He told me that the <b>Hixonites</b> indeed did travel via thier hierocopters from Egypt to the Americas which they settled.

Although DNA evidence <b>BYU executed</b> completely refutes this, the Angel named MORON said it to me on <i>Mount St. Elway</i>, so it must be true.

Besides, the prophet <b>Joseph Mecklensharpe</b> translated these hieroglyphs he bought from from some random person, and he said they explain how they crossed the Atlantic. Makes perfect sense to me.

Now my mission is to spread the world around the world.

The only difference between me and <b>Mormons</b> is that the 2nd President of my religion, <b>Brigisham Atwaterberg</b> never taught this law, but Brigham Young got this from <i>Heavenly Father,</i> so who are we to question him.

<b>"The penalty for seeding with a NEGRO will be death, and it will ALWAYS be so" - Brigham Young</b>

Anyway, if you don't believe me, just witness the hieroglyphs <b>Joseph Mecklensharpe </b>translated for yourself. They clearly depict the crafts the <b>Hixonites </b>used to cross the Atlantic from Egypt.

Sound familiar?

LMFAO!!!

Seriously...can we get this moved to the butt now?

[Beantown Bronco]

It doesn't change the fact the basis of thier religion is a complete lie.

You could easily argue that about EVERY religion.

[smalltowngrll]

This thread was originally for advice on the economy/living conditions around SLC. It's only fair to keep it on topic rather than move it to the butt. If you guys would like to debate then start a thread in the WRP forum.

[Beantown Bronco]

Guys....you gotta check out this house I found in Orem. Do the virtual tour of the interior. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say this guy is a hunter.

http://homes.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?ctid=11112&ml=3&typ=1&sid=ce4fb2f1cf6d40aba6c4286051275ad8&pg=3&lid=1076429890&lsn=25&srcnt=250#Detail

[DomCasual]

Guys....you gotta check out this house I found in Orem. Do the virtual tour of the interior. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say this guy is a hunter.

http://homes.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?ctid=11112&ml=3&typ=1&sid=ce4fb2f1cf6d40aba6c4286051275ad8&pg=3&lid=1076429890&lsn=25&srcnt=250#Detail

Wow. I don't think I could live with that - it's creepy. I bet his wife is sort of milquetoast.

[smalltowngrll]

ROFL! Perfect for BMF. Only problem might be the price!!

[SoonerBronco]

Guys....you gotta check out this house I found in Orem. Do the virtual tour of the interior. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say this guy is a hunter.

http://homes.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?ctid=11112&ml=3&typ=1&sid=ce4fb2f1cf6d40aba6c4286051275ad8&pg=3&lid=1076429890&lsn=25&srcnt=250#Detail

Makes me feel really poor...

[bronclvr]

Hey! How did they get those Photos of my House?

[Dukes]

Guys....you gotta check out this house I found in Orem. Do the virtual tour of the interior. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say this guy is a hunter.

http://homes.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?ctid=11112&ml=3&typ=1&sid=ce4fb2f1cf6d40aba6c4286051275ad8&pg=3&lid=1076429890&lsn=25&srcnt=250#Detail

The interior design would make Ted Nugent blush

[TerrElway]

That's funny about all those Utah County towns. They are SO homogeneous, but saying so is grossly offensive to them. My wife is from Spanish Fork. Spanish Fork people talk about Payson (a few miles up I-15) like it's Hillbilly USA. My response is always, "Yeah, but when you're from a cultural mecca like Spanish Freaking Fork, it's hard not to see everyplace as Hillybilly USA." ::)

...Spanish FARK! I grew up in Logan (about 90 miles north of SLC up in a valley called Cache Valley-beautiful!) and moved to "Spanish" in 1997. Hated it. And I say that as a practicing Mormon. I would NEVER live in Utah County again. Stay in the Salt Lake Valley and commute. The Daybreak area in the south west side of the valley is nice. So is Draper on the south east side. Just stay out of Utah County.

You'll find in Utah county no one calls the two name towns by both names. Pleasant Grove is "PG", American Fork is "AF" Spanish Fork is "Spanish" etc.

[Master___Pain]

BMF, good luck to you no matter what you decide. It's too bad this thread has seen an attempted hijacking, sad actually.

[freak6]

You could easily argue that about EVERY religion.

And I do...

Guys....you gotta check out this house I found in Orem. Do the virtual tour of the interior. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say this guy is a hunter.


Giraffes? WTF

He'll be reincarnated (mormon belief) as a butterfly a wasp paralyzes for weeks while her young eat it alive.

Sorry about hijacking the thread, but I think I had to explain why I would never move there, the insane zombies, and the justification for why they are insane. And it was alot of fun!

[azbroncfan]

best of luck, and i think its a wonderful place for kids.

there are some people who feel a bit uncomfortable because theyre NOT mormon and feel like theyre pressured by those that are, but that wasnt my experience at all.great people, nice towns, affordable living, and a wonderful place to raise kids. just my .02

jake

That is because you are mormon but to say that the mormons don't pressure the nonmormons and look at us differently is wrong. I grew up in happy valley and know how it is. There are soooo many young kids on heroin here and the mormons just ignore it and act like it isn't going on until there kids are dead. All mormons aren't the same and especially outside of Utah county but as a general Utah County mormons are the worst around as far as shoving it in your face.

With that said it is still a good place to live and I'm shopping for building lots but housing prices are about to plummet and there will be a lot of good deals over the next year. I enjoy all of the outdoor activities and get plenty of fun other places when I'm traveling and working to make up for Utah's deficientcies.

[Kaylore]

BMF, good luck to you no matter what you decide. It's too bad this thread has seen an attempted hijacking, sad actually.

I did put freak6 on ignore but the number of trolls on this board is getting out of hand. It's not even fun anymore. :(

[freak6]

I did put freak6 on ignore.

Of course you did, I just killed your faith, and you have to bury your head in the sand like a coward.

<b>You called me scared of something that challenges my beliefs.</b>

Yet it is YOU that put me on ignore.

You are the coward, you are scared, because the truth which I posted -

DESTROYS YOUR RELIGION!!!!!!!!!!

You just proved how brainwashed you are. All of you mormons are exactly the same. Even with undeniable proof in front of your face, you bury your head in the sand. Shameful. I pity your children who will have the same lies BRAINWASHED into thier innocent minds just like you did.

Pathetic.

The is nothing worse than a hypocrite, except one like you Kaylore, who combines his infinite hypocrisy with uncharted cowardice and ignorance.

Like Bush.

[smalltowngrll]

Freak (and others)....please stop using this thread to further your discussion of the Mormons. This thread was intended for inquiry into a location only, and it's not fair for you or anyone else to change the subject into something that belongs in the WRP forum..... Thank you!! ^5

[Dukes]

I did put freak6 on ignore

You're not the only one

[DomCasual]

So, BMF - did you get the job?

[Rock Chalk]

Damn mormons.

:D

Im not too big on Utah. The mountains are nice, fantastic in fact, but my experience in SLC was overshadowed by a crappy concert at the worst venue in all of the world. Whatever that place is on the lake itself. Honestly, its probably a good idea I didnt take any drugs because holy **** that place stinks. I was ill the whole time.

And you literally cant buy beer anywhere! Well, thats a bit of an exaggeration but man its not just a simple matter in Utah.

[DomCasual]

Damn mormons.

:D

Im not too big on Utah. The mountains are nice, fantastic in fact, but my experience in SLC was overshadowed by a crappy concert at the worst venue in all of the world. Whatever that place is on the lake itself. Honestly, its probably a good idea I didnt take any drugs because holy **** that place stinks. I was ill the whole time.

And you literally cant buy beer anywhere! Well, thats a bit of an exaggeration but man its not just a simple matter in Utah.

I think you're talking about Salt Air. They tore it down.

[SureShot]

Damn mormons.

:D

Im not too big on Utah. The mountains are nice, fantastic in fact, but my experience in SLC was overshadowed by a crappy concert at the worst venue in all of the world. Whatever that place is on the lake itself. Honestly, its probably a good idea I didnt take any drugs because holy **** that place stinks. I was ill the whole time.

And you literally cant buy beer anywhere! Well, thats a bit of an exaggeration but man its not just a simple matter in Utah.

Yeah its pretty much BYOB. We always truck a bunch of beer and brown water to Dutch John.

[Flyboy063]

rep Dom for the solid info to BMF.

I'll give you my two cents. Utah is a great place if you like outdoor stuff. If you like clubbing and partying it can suck.

I'm non-LDS and grew up in a town of 4,000 people in central Utah. Most of my friends are LDS. I can tell you that you'll meet a lot of big hearted folks that would give you the shirt of their back if you needed it. You'll also meet a few folks that will be more than happy to introduce your back to their buck knife. As far as the LDS folks go some will try to push their religion on you no matter what, but many respect your wishes. I've been to Germany, Mississippi, Virginia, Florida, Idaho, Texas, and a few other places and noticed the same type of folks everywhere. LDS folks just seem to get a really bad rep due to the stereotype. One other thing to keep in mind is Utah is full of "Jack Mormons". A "Jack Mormon" is somebody that doesn't really follow the religion, but claims to be mormom. So eventhough UT is full of LDS a lot of them don't act like the horror stories folks tell.

If you're worried about the LDS. Salt Lake is the place to move, unless you really want to commute then South Ogden is another good diverse place. Utah County is by far the worse place to live due to BYU being there. I've found that if you have a person constantly pushing you to join the church you can avoid the conflicts by learning about their church to get a better understanding of them and then use that knowledge to respectfully decline their invitations. If that don't work you can ask questions about the gray area of their religion and most of the time they'll catch the drift. Just don't be ignorant and you shouldn't have problems.

If you come here with an open mind and a willingness to accept people then you'll probably end up enjoying it here.

If you're a family oriented, adventurous, outdoor kind of person then you'll really really enjoy Utah.

I also agree on the drivers here. Absolutely horrible.

If I was being offered a job for 2x what I get paid now, I'd move to Utah. 3x I would even think twice.

You can buy 3.2% beer at most grocery stores and gas stations everyday after 10am except Sundays. Anything harder and you'll need to go to a state liquor store or have a meal at a restaurant with a license.

I'm blabbering now so if you have any questions about my experience in Utah just PM me and I'll answer the best I can.

[BMF Bronco]

So, BMF - did you get the job?

Not sure yet, they just concluded the interviews yesterday, I am going to call in today to see what's up. Keep your fingers crossed!!!

[Old Dude]

Never been to Utah, but I hear it's west of Invesco

[BMF Bronco]

rep Dom for the solid info to BMF.

I'll give you my two cents. Utah is a great place if you like outdoor stuff. If you like clubbing and partying it can suck.

I'm non-LDS and grew up in a town of 4,000 people in central Utah. Most of my friends are LDS. I can tell you that you'll meet a lot of big hearted folks that would give you the shirt of their back if you needed it. You'll also meet a few folks that will be more than happy to introduce your back to their buck knife. As far as the LDS folks go some will try to push their religion on you no matter what, but many respect your wishes. I've been to Germany, Mississippi, Virginia, Florida, Idaho, Texas, and a few other places and noticed the same type of folks everywhere. LDS folks just seem to get a really bad rep due to the stereotype. One other thing to keep in mind is Utah is full of "Jack Mormons". A "Jack Mormon" is somebody that doesn't really follow the religion, but claims to be mormom. So eventhough UT is full of LDS a lot of them don't act like the horror stories folks tell.

If you're worried about the LDS. Salt Lake is the place to move, unless you really want to commute then South Ogden is another good diverse place. Utah County is by far the worse place to live due to BYU being there. I've found that if you have a person constantly pushing you to join the church you can avoid the conflicts by learning about their church to get a better understanding of them and then use that knowledge to respectfully decline their invitations. If that don't work you can ask questions about the gray area of their religion and most of the time they'll catch the drift. Just don't be ignorant and you shouldn't have problems.

If you come here with an open mind and a willingness to accept people then you'll probably end up enjoying it here.

If you're a family oriented, adventurous, outdoor kind of person then you'll really really enjoy Utah.

I also agree on the drivers here. Absolutely horrible.

If I was being offered a job for 2x what I get paid now, I'd move to Utah. 3x I would even think twice.

You can buy 3.2% beer at most grocery stores and gas stations everyday after 10am except Sundays. Anything harder and you'll need to go to a state liquor store or have a meal at a restaurant with a license.

I'm blabbering now so if you have any questions about my experience in Utah just PM me and I'll answer the best I can.

so what if I do outdoorsy stuff while partying? I am an avid outdoorsman, skiing, hunting, fishing, hiking, biking, etc, yet I am a big partier too, as all who know me are aware. And just to put it to rest, I have been around LDS goers for years, my boss at Wells Fargo was LDS, some of my employees at SAE were LDS, they actually were some of my best friends, so I am not too worried about the interaction.

[orange 4 life]

That is because you are mormon

i wasnt when i went to BYU.

it wasnt until after i LEFT utah that i was baptized.

[bronclvr]

so what if I do outdoorsy stuff while partying? I am an avid outdoorsman, skiing, hunting, fishing, hiking, biking, etc, yet I am a big partier too, as all who know me are aware. And just to put it to rest, I have been around LDS goers for years, my boss at Wells Fargo was LDS, some of my employees at SAE were LDS, they actually were some of my best friends, so I am not too worried about the interaction.

Hey, there are a LOT of Partiers in Utah County (they are just camoflaged-go to Sandy Beach on a Friday of Saturday night)-you can buy Beer (well, almost Beer-3.2) on Sunday in Springville or, do as a lot of people do, get your Liquor out-of-State-

[orange 4 life]

Yes. They/you are insane if you seriously believe that Joe Smith had some gold plates (never seen), and translated them using rocks, into a faith where Israelites crossed the Atlantic to the Amazon. Did I mention the witnesses testified that it was all a lie?


yeah, it makes much more sense that a kid in his early teens with an 8th grade education wrote the book all by himself....in a period of mere days.

you are insane if you seriously believe thats what happened.

how about this though. lets not get into it.
do you have alot of mormons that are harrassing you, causing trouble, being rotten neighbors, stealing from you, etc.?

then why assault someones beliefs?
why act like a complete a-hole to an entire group of people who havent done anything to you?

that post was uncalled for and out of place. a real a-hole move.

[Rock Chalk]

I think you're talking about Salt Air. They tore it down.

Great news for concert goers in Utah!

[BMF Bronco]

Yes, I don't think I will find it hard to get my fix! Ü

But again, still don't have the job yet, keep hope alive!!!

[orange 4 life]

Watch the movie yourself psycho.

I'm going to go pray to Mount St. Elway (a hill here in San Diego that an angel named MORON told me was where the Africans flew thier ancient flying machines before settling the Americas) for you now.

And if you don't believe me, here is all my EVIDENCE PROVING I AM RIGHT!!!!!!!
http://www.crystalinks.com/ancientaircraft.html
See the ancient hierocopter, and hierosubmarine, and even the hieroglider they took to get to America!!

this is such a low class move i dont even know what to say.
you should be ashamed of yourself.

[freak6]

this is such a low class move i dont even know what to say.
you should be ashamed of yourself.

Ashamed of telling the truth? Never.

How come not one of you Mormons is disputing the facts about <b>the book of Abraham</b>, the fact <b>BYU </b>did it's own <b>DNA</b>study <b>proving the foundation for it's own faith to be impossible</b>, or what <b>Brigham Young said about mating with Negroes?</b>

<b>"The penalty will be death, and it will ALWAYS be so" - Brigham Young</b>

And none of you can say anything about my new faith, the angel MORON that told me to :pray:pray to <b>Mount St. Elway</b>, or the evidence <b>Joseph Mecklensharpe</b> and <b>Brigha<i>sham</i> Atwaterberg</b> used to prove it, because it is just viable as what mormons have been brainwashed into believing!!!:thumbsup:

If any of you really want to dispute any of it, I'm all ears, but we should do so elsewhere so BMF can get good info on moving to Utah like housing prices etc...

For those that are also interested in converting into my faith (I'm sure some of you Mormons out there must be mulling it over as my evidence is just as if not more viable than Joseph Smith's), here is my evidence that Egyptians settled the Americas.

Hilarious!

[Flyboy063]

so what if I do outdoorsy stuff while partying? I am an avid outdoorsman, skiing, hunting, fishing, hiking, biking, etc, yet I am a big partier too, as all who know me are aware. And just to put it to rest, I have been around LDS goers for years, my boss at Wells Fargo was LDS, some of my employees at SAE were LDS, they actually were some of my best friends, so I am not too worried about the interaction.

Then you'll be set. That is what I do. I usually go camping with about 10 to 20 folks and we just go up in the moutains ATV and fish during the day and drink and BS around the campfire at night.

It sounds like Utah is a good fit for you.

[BMF Bronco]

Then you'll be set. That is what I do. I usually go camping with about 10 to 20 folks and we just go up in the moutains ATV and fish during the day and drink and BS around the campfire at night.

It sounds like Utah is a good fit for you.

Right on, now all i have to do is get the damned job! :yayaya:

[orange 4 life]

This coming from someone that believes a guy transcribed 2nd generation hieroglyphs (no such thing) using magic stones placed in his hat (err) which he couldn't translate twice, and all the witnesses testified he was lying, for which he was eventually killed, is the holy one who god speaks through!!!

Not unique, no, but smarter than most

Insecure? Scared? Not so much kid. I am a cocky Sgt of Marines who will destroy anyone in any debate, on the court, on the field, or in a fight.

Why no comment on the movie and the facts about the lies that Joe Smith told while pretending to read hieroglyphs that he made up an entire goofy religion only morons would believe in?
The ones that are SCARED are YOU because I have just DESTROYED your religion on this thread. And that is why you don't comment on the facts, and immediately turn to attacking me.

Was <b>Brigham Young right?</b>

When he said

<b> "The penalty for seeding with a negro will be death, and it will ALWAYS be so". </b>


you really are an arrogant prick arent you?
its so over the top its almost comical.
did a mormon kick your ass or something?
okay, i shouldnt do this, but i cant resist.

1) youre a "cocky Sgt of Marines who will destroy anyone in any debate, on the court, on the field, or in a fight"?
wow. amazing youre a sgt at age 12. do you actually treat people so piss poor in person too, or is your tough guy act only on the internet?
you'll "destroy" ANYONE even though youve never met them? hmmmm.
why arent you the president, an NBA player, an NFL player, or a professional fighter? i mean, you said ANYONE right?
your comment is so idiotic its jaw dropping.

2) why no comment on the movie? because i didnt watch it. i wasnt raised mormon, and i wasnt brainwashed. i studied every religion, and as a person of logic i came to my own conclusions after years of study. i dont agree with everything that the LDS church has done over the years, because being run by HUMANS its imperfect. that said, i believe in the scriptures. i believe that the bible and the book of mormon go hand in hand, and DOZENS of hours of prayer and study brought me to that conclusion. i didnt watch a short film and presume to know everything there is to know.

3) you didnt "destroy" anything kiddo. you just posted a link to a movie. do you have any thoughts of your own, or is this film and maybe a couple anti-mormon pamphlets the extent of your knowledge?

4) ive never seen that quote from brigham young, but if he did say that, then absolutely and without question he was wrong. he is one person, and he is imperfect. even a prophet (for arguments sake lets say he was) doesnt ALWAYS have God speak through them. personally, i believe that brigham young was a very flawed man. as for joseph smith, i believe he is undoubtedly a prophet, but i ALSO believe that some of his later writings were not as much prophesy as they were well intentioned thoughts. this of course doesnt jive with church teachings, but like i said, my beliefs are based on prayer and study as opposed to unquestioned faith in what someone else tells me.

5) you dont sound unique or intelligent. quite the opposite.

jake

ps- i think bush is possibly the worst president since hoover, and im a left leaning democrat. cant always judge a book by its cover.

[DomCasual]

He's not worth wasting time on o4l. He watched a film produced by an organization that hates everyone, and now he thinks he's smart. Better to leave him in his own little circle of ignorance and hate.

[orange 4 life]

He's not worth wasting time on o4l. He watched a film produced by an organization that hates everyone, and now he thinks he's smart. Better to leave him in his own little circle of ignorance and hate.

youre right, but i couldnt take it anymore.
the guy claims to be smart, but then ALL he can do is post the same nonsense paragraph about "mt saint elway, blah blah blah" and a link to a hate monger movie.
someone that twisted and hateful needs to be confronted.

so freak, since you said you DO hate all religion, then lets try this one.
whats your faith?
what do you believe, besides that its okay to attack 90% of the world because they have some form of religious belief?

[freak6]

you really are an arrogant prick arent you?:yep:
its so over the top its almost comical.?Intentionally:thanku:
did a mormon kick your ass or something??Now that is comical!

why no comment on the movie? because i didnt watch it.Head in the sand.

The facts presented in the movie and those I presented destroy the book of Abraham, and expose Joe Smith as the charlatan he was.

you didnt "destroy" anything kiddo. you just posted a link to a movie. do you have any thoughts of your own.

Yes, I posted them. The book of Abraham is a sham. The proof is that the 2nd Generation hieroglyphs (no such thing) say nothing even close as to what he claimed they did after he "translated" them.

ive never seen that quote from brigham young, but if he did say that, then absolutely and without question he was wrong.
But according to your faith the voice of God spoke through him. Disgusting really. At least you can say he was wrong. The missionary I spoke to said that I was misinterpreting what he said, as if it is possible to misinterpret <b>"The penalty for seeding with a negro will be death, and it will always be so" - Brigham Young. </b>

How Hitleresque of him. :oyvey:

as for joseph smith, i believe he is undoubtedly a prophet, but i ALSO believe that some of his later writings were not as much prophesy as they were well intentioned thoughts. this of course doesnt jive with church teachings.

Blasphemy!

Of course he was wrong, he was a sick racist powerhungry manipulating brainwasher of vulnerable innocents.

Why no comment on the book of Abraham and any real specifics?

Why no comment on the fact that <b>BYU did thier own DNA study disproving the book of Abraham entirely, </b>

yet shockingly the brainwashing is so deep and thorough, they ignored it,

and still believe that the <b>Jaredites</b> crossed the Atlantic with steal swords a thousand years before steal was invented, and settled the Americas?

Anyone with a brain knows that it was the <b>Hixonites</b> that crossed the Atlantic as I proved with my evidence anyway. Besides that, the angel MORON told me when I prayed :pray:at <b>Mt. Saint Elway about Joseph Mecklensharpe and Brigasham Atwaterberg.</b>

Tonite, the angel MORON told me he would guide me to a bag precious metals left by the <b>Hixonites</b> that I can study and find out more about thier trials settling the Americas. http://illuminations.nctm.org/Lessons/NumberCents/MoneyBag.jpg

All I have to do is put them in my eye sockets, look into my <b>hat</b>, and all will be explained! I can't wait!

[orange 4 life]

freak disappeared.
what a surprise.

when someone finally answered his one and ONLY question (the brigham young quote) he turned tail.
nothing else to say except to spout more hate and nonsense.

i guess i never realized what a horror of a human being he is?

[Dukes]

1) youre a "cocky Sgt of Marines who will destroy anyone in any debate, on the court, on the field, or in a fight"?
wow. amazing youre a sgt at age 12. do you actually treat people so piss poor in person too, or is your tough guy act only on the internet?


He probably is. I'd say over half of the career marines I've ever met have fallen under two categories. 1) They know nothing outside of the marine corps and would be completely lost without it and 2) Were picked on all their life, and now that they've stayed in long enough to get a little power they revel in it.

[orange 4 life]

more "hixonites" crap?

youre ridiculous, and im embarrassed that youre a fellow bronco fan.

why do you find it necessary to insult people?

[freak6]

but then ALL he can do is post the same nonsense paragraph about "mt saint elway, blah blah blah" and a link to a hate monger movie.


Oh, good, now you are going to blast my new faith!!! Hypocrite!!! It is just as viable as YOURS, yet now you are calling my faith NONSENSE!!!

Hilarious!

The movie isn't hate filled at all. It is actually very kind, and lays out the facts about the history of your religion.

so freak, since you said you DO hate all religion, then lets try this one.
whats your faith?
what do you believe, besides that its okay to attack 90% of the world because they have some form of religious belief?

I don't believe in attacking 90% of the world. Please don't put words in my mouth. I do KNOW that religion is a poison, and has done much more damage to the human race than any good it has done. Philosophy should take the place of religion, and all the false charlatans that preach lies and myths as facts.

Now, please don't disparage the angel MORON, he is just as real as Josephy Smith's angel MORONI,

and the <b>Hixonites are just as real as the Jaredites. </b>

Perhaps you'd like to compare evidence...

BWAA HA HA HA HAAAAA

Hilarious!

[freak6]

freak disappeared.
what a surprise.

when someone finally answered his one and ONLY question (the brigham young quote) he turned tail.

lmfao, it just took a while to respond to your multitude of responses.

Get real, like I would ever turn tail!

My only question.

hmm...

Can you read.

What about the DNA evidence BYU used to disprove its own basis?

What about the book of Abraham and the lies about the hieroglyphs?

What about all the facts that prove Joseph Smith was LIEING?

[Cosmo]

and still believe that the <b>Jaredites</b> crossed the Atlantic with steal swords a thousand years before steal was invented, and settled the Americas?




I have a tough time taking evidence & proof from someone that presents Youtube movies, gives quotes without giving a reference, claims studies were done with providing a link to prove it and spells steel wrong.

[freak6]

He probably is. I'd say over half of the career marines I've ever met have fallen under two categories. 1) They know nothing outside of the marine corps and would be completely lost without it and 2) Were picked on all their life, and now that they've stayed in long enough to get a little power they revel in it.

I have 6 years broken time in which I got my bachelors from the University of Colorado, and I reenlisted to help win the WOT, except idiot Bush has let Al Qaeda get back to full capability. I was never picked on, I was an all state athlete, am a 300 pftr at 31, and am getting out in 9 mos to go to law school.

Let's talk about the book of Abraham and how Joseph Smith lied about being able to translate hieroglyphs which he bought, and then twisted some fabricated story to woo the vulnerable minds around him. Until he was found to be a charlatan and put to death!

LOL

Why are you trying to kill the messenger. Debate the facts!!!

LOL

[freak6]

I have a tough time taking evidence & proof from someone that presents Youtube movies, gives quotes without giving a reference, claims studies were done with providing a link to prove it and spells steel wrong.

You got me there. But I am not going to post endless links. Google it yourself.

Steal was invented about 1500 B.C. The Jaredites ALLEGEDLY (ha ha haaa) crossed the Atlantic and discovered America around 2500 B.C. which they conquered using "steal swords".

Hilarious!

[Dukes]

I have 6 years broken time in which I got my bachelors from the University of Colorado, and I reenlisted to help win the WOT, except idiot Bush has let Al Qaeda get back to full capability. I was never picked on, I was an all state athlete, am a 300 pftr at 31, and am getting out in 9 mos to go to law school.

Good for you, but your no different from any other douche bag marine i've ever met

[Beantown Bronco]

I do KNOW that religion is a poison, and has done much more damage to the human race than any good it has done. Philosophy should take the place of religion, and all the false charlatans that preach lies and myths as facts.

Only someone with a very limited knowledge of select western religious traditions would come up with that one. You do realize that they only make up a fraction of the religions out there, don't you?

[Cosmo]

You got me there. But I am not going to post endless links. Google it yourself.

Steal was invented about 1500 B.C. The Jaredites ALLEGEDLY (ha ha haaa) crossed the Atlantic and discovered America around 2500 B.C. which the conquered using "steal swords".

Hilarious!

Why are you still spelling it "steal"? Good Lord Man, take a spelling class.


steal /stil/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[steel] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation, verb, stole, sto·len, steal·ing, noun
–verb (used with object) 1. to take (the property of another or others) without permission or right, esp. secretly or by force: A pickpocket stole his watch.
2. to appropriate (ideas, credit, words, etc.) without right or acknowledgment.
3. to take, get, or win insidiously, surreptitiously, subtly, or by chance: He stole my girlfriend.
4. to move, bring, convey, or put secretly or quietly; smuggle (usually fol. by away, from, in, into, etc.): They stole the bicycle into the bedroom to surprise the child.
5. Baseball. (of a base runner) to gain (a base) without the help of a walk or batted ball, as by running to it during the delivery of a pitch.
6. Games. to gain (a point, advantage, etc.) by strategy, chance, or luck.
7. to gain or seize more than one's share of attention in, as by giving a superior performance: The comedian stole the show.
–verb (used without object) 8. to commit or practice theft.
9. to move, go, or come secretly, quietly, or unobserved: She stole out of the house at midnight.
10. to pass, happen, etc., imperceptibly, gently, or gradually: The years steal by.
11. Baseball. (of a base runner) to advance a base without the help of a walk or batted ball.
–noun 12. Informal. an act of stealing; theft.
13. Informal. the thing stolen; booty.
14. Informal. something acquired at a cost far below its real value; bargain: This dress is a steal at $40.
15. Baseball. the act of advancing a base by stealing.
—Idiom16. steal someone's thunder, to appropriate or use another's idea, plan, words, etc.

[freak6]

Only someone with a very limited knowledge of select western religious traditions would come up with that one. You do realize that they only make up a fraction of the religions out there, don't you?

Entirely different topic, and debate. But one that I know I could win.

Has religion done enough to undo the damage caused at the Holocaust?

Or how about the more than 200,000 <b>WOMEN</b> burned at the stake for being <i>witches</i>.

As I stated, if religion was disposed of, and replaced world wide with pure philosophy, then the world would be undoubtedly a much better place.

[freak6]

Why are you still spelling it "steal"? Good Lord Man, take a spelling class.


LOL, you got me dude. I type to fast. Does it change the fact that Joseph Smith made up everything when he looked inside a hat at non existent gold plates that he translated with rocks?

No.

Book of Abraham is complete BS as proven by

BRIGHAM YOUNG UNIVERSITY!!!

Hilarious!

[gunns]

so what if I do outdoorsy stuff while partying? I am an avid outdoorsman, skiing, hunting, fishing, hiking, biking, etc, yet I am a big partier too, as all who know me are aware. And just to put it to rest, I have been around LDS goers for years, my boss at Wells Fargo was LDS, some of my employees at SAE were LDS, they actually were some of my best friends, so I am not too worried about the interaction.

Move to SLC. There are some private clubs that are very nice to party at and it does not cost an arm and a leg to join. A lot of parties are just at home. The hunting, fishing, biking is easily accessible.

SLC is probably the most diverse in Utah. Utah is probably the most Republican state in the nation, yet SLC has been giving their votes to the Democrats or Independents. And all of the people that state Utah has the worst drivers are absolutely on the money. The one that said they don't use their blinkers, cut you off, is right.

[Cosmo]

LOL, you got me dude. I type to fast. Does it change the fact that Joseph Smith made up everything when he looked inside a hat at non existent gold plates that he translated with rocks?

No.

Book of Abraham is complete BS as proven by

BRIGHAM YOUNG UNIVERSITY!!!

Hilarious!

You may feel fine arguing without providing links, but I don't.

http://www.meridianmagazine.com/ideas/050801steel.html

[Master___Pain]

I don't iknow f anyone has seen the movie kung pow, but there's a funny exchange of lines in there.

"Please forgive Wimp Lo, he's an idiot. We trained him wrong....as a joke"

"You think losing is winning"

then later in the movie

[Chosen One kicks Wimp-Lo in the face. Wimp-Lo does a pose]
Wimp Lo: Ha! Face to foot style, how do you like it?
Chosen One: I'm sure on some planet your style is impressive, but your weak link is: this is Earth.
Wimp Lo: Oh yeah? Then try my nuts to your fist style!

Some will get this.

Is it possible to extract some of the posts here that have zero to do with the questions BMF was asking and create a different thread? (This post included)

[freak6]

You may feel fine arguing without providing links, but I don't.

http://www.meridianmagazine.com/ideas/050801steel.html

Like that bogus and completely bias MORMON webpage states, the Jaredites are said to have used STEEL swords.

Which is impossible...

UNLESS...

Joseph Smith didn't mean steel since what he was translating could have meant something else, but he took it as steel.

WAIT A SECOND............

Hilarious!

Nice try, all that link did is further the evidence that what <b>Joseph Smith was translating and making up were myths he had created that at the time sounded plausible.</b>

I got stuff to do. Don't take my leave of absence for anything other than what it is, I got stuff to do.

Keep posting more stuff, I'll be happy to expose the truth more later.

PEACE!

[orange 4 life]

Oh, good, now you are going to blast my new faith!!! Hypocrite!!! It is just as viable as YOURS, yet now you are calling my faith NONSENSE!!!

Hilarious!

The movie isn't hate filled at all. It is actually very kind, and lays out the facts about the history of your religion.

I don't believe in attacking 90% of the world. Please don't put words in my mouth. I do KNOW that religion is a poison, and has done much more damage to the human race than any good it has done. Philosophy should take the place of religion, and all the false charlatans that preach lies and myths as facts.

Now, please don't disparage the angel MORON, he is just as real as Josephy Smith's angel MORONI,

and the <b>Hixonites are just as real as the Jaredites. </b>

Perhaps you'd like to compare evidence...

BWAA HA HA HA HAAAAA

Hilarious!

wow. where to start.

if you actually DID believe the nonsense youre spouting, then i'd respect your self created bronco world belief system. i respect all belief systems that dont involve hurting other people.
fact is, that ISNT your religion, and your only reason for posting it (excessively i might add) is to mock other peoples beliefs. people that havent done anything to deserve your hate filled attack.

im NOT "putting words in your mouth".
how slow on the uptake are you son?
YOU said "religion is a poison", and YOU said that you hate all religions.
90% of the world has some form of religious belief.
come on smart guy. basic math equation right? if a=b and b=c then a=c right? LOL

youre entitled to your opinion that religion has done more harm than good, and history is on your side on many occasions.
that said, why attack the individuals who have beliefs that dont match yours?
why mormons? why not catholics, muslims, or jews? you said theyre poison too, so why not just insult everyone at once?

so what say you sgt hatemonger?

[Beantown Bronco]

Entirely different topic, and debate. But one that I know I could win. .

Did the marines teach you to underestimate all opponents you know nothing about, or did you learn that one on your own. There is always someone better at debating....

Has religion done enough to undo the damage caused at the Holocaust?

Or how about the more than 200,000 <b>WOMEN</b> burned at the stake for being <i>witches</i>..

Yes and Yes. How about the billions of lives that have been saved through the Church's works and donations to the poor?

But, first and foremost...you are ONCE AGAIN proving your lack of knowledge about something you say you can debate and win. It is a well known fact that the academic community is now estimating the number of actual women executed for being accused of witchcraft to be around 40,000.....NOT more than 200,000. And only a fraction of those were actually "burned at the stake".

As I stated, if religion was disposed of, and replaced world wide with pure philosophy, then the world would be undoubtedly a much better place.

Again, you are stating your opinion....one that has a very limited base (I'm guessing one or two required courses at your University that focused on the nice, easy bullet-point discussions of Western Religious Traditions); and one that completely ignores the vast history of the Eastern Religions. Good luck with that. You are the equivalent of the guy who got owned in the Harvard Bar in Good Will Hunting. Come back when you've actually studied what you claim to speak of.

[smalltowngrll]

:thumbsup: Master Pain.

Freak. Seriously. This is HIGHLY disrespectful behaviour to the original poster to completely hijack the thread like this. I realize you are passionate about this, but it really is disrespectful. Please be respectful and take this discussion elsewhere. Be a man here and walk away to another location!

[freak6]

More evidence from the Mormon website Cosmo posted.

<b> NOW THIS IS SERIOUSLY INSANE!!!
</b>
Look at South America!!!
http://www.ancientamerica.org/library/media/HTML/m59cha1b/Mormons%20Map%20Puzzle.htm
lmfao

See anything wrong with that map...

[Master___Pain]

:thumbsup: Master Pain.

Freak. Seriously. This is HIGHLY disrespectful behaviour to the original poster to completely hijack the thread like this. I realize you are passionate about this, but it really is disrespectful. Please be respectful and take this discussion elsewhere. Be a man here and walk away to another location!

Absolutely NOT going to happen. I wish it would but it's not going to.

[orange 4 life]

Entirely different topic, and debate. But one that I know I could win.


well sure you could.
according to you youre also the best basketball and football player on top of being the best fighter in the world. pretty impressive resume!!

[freak6]

wow. where to start.YOU said "religion is a poison", and YOU said that you hate all religions.
90% of the world has some form of religious belief.
come on smart guy. basic math equation right? if a=b and b=c then a=c right?


You said I want to attack the whole world. That was putting words in my mouth.

Much different than saying I want to rid the world of religion through education, which is how and what I want to do.

How come no comment on the <b>DNA study BYU did to disprove the basis for it's own existence?</b>

How come no comment on the fact that the heiroglyph Joseph Smith claimed to translate, in truth says nothing at all even close to what he claimed it said to create his book of Abraham.

Smalltown - I have only posted in response.

I asked them to stop hijacking this thread, see for yourself, but O4L started it up again, so I am definitely going to respond.

Please don't <b>disparage the angel MORON, he is just as real as the angel MORONI</b>, as <font size=4>the <b>Hixonites</b> are just as real as the <b>Jaredites.</b>





Perhaps you'd like to compare evidence...like from BYU perhaps...

Hilarious!

[freak6]

I gotta run for real now...

btw - I don't hate mormons, the people themselves are innocent, very good natured, and completely brainwashed happy zombies! I just want to educate them on the facts and show them the truth so they can join us in reality.

[Cosmo]

I have to go to work, but I'll show you more. But honestly I dont think there is any point, you misread the article completely bud. It states that people like you dont take into consideration the languages involved in translation, as the Bible would be proven wrong by the same token, as there are weapons made of steel used when steel didn't exist. So read again, i'll be back.

[freak6]

well sure you could.
according to you youre also the best basketball and football player on top of being the best fighter in the world. pretty impressive resume!!

I am a pretty good athlete.

As far as debating, I talked to 6 priests and pastors in 6 different sects of Christianity, and in talking to them I got

100% of them to admit that thier god was an impossibility using my OWN proof.

A+B+C = impossible god.

[freak6]

as there are weapons made of steel used when steel didn't exist. So read again, i'll be back.

Linguistic gymnastics aside, I'll concede the point regarding the "steel swords" Cosmo if you will concede that Joseph Smith had no idea what he was "translating" from the hieroglyphs, and that they mean nothing even close to what he made them up to be.

[Master___Pain]

I am a pretty good athlete.

As far as debating, I talked to 6 priests and pastors in 6 different sects of Christianity, and in talking to them I got

100% of them to admit that thier god was an impossibility.

Hey look, it's Bill Brasky!!!

[orange 4 life]

I have to go to work, but I'll show you more. But honestly I dont think there is any point, you misread the article completely bud. It states that people like you dont take into consideration the languages involved in translation, as the Bible would be proven wrong by the same token, as there are weapons made of steel used when steel didn't exist. So read again, i'll be back.

i honestly dont think he's bright enough to grasp more complex points.
you can tell by the nature of his posts. its the same couple points OVER AND OVER AND OVER again. he also hasnt yet had a single thought of his own.
...and finally, he's obviously a bit delusional in his thinking (self importance and childish arrogance) so he'll just ignore any rational discussion and keep asking why we dont answer his ludicrous questions he learned from his MTV generation movie.
the kid is a disgrace to bronco fans and the united states military.

ps- BMF, i apologize for all the banter on your thread. i just got tired of seeing his continuous attacks which were of course completely uncalled for and unprovoked. i probably shouldve just ignored the moron.

[BMF Bronco]

No worries, I pretty much only had to read one post in the last three pages, it's called selective reading, I have grown quite accustomed to it over the past couple of years on this site.

[orange 4 life]

I am a pretty good athlete.

As far as debating, I talked to 6 priests and pastors in 6 different sects of Christianity, and in talking to them I got

100% of them to admit that thier god was an impossibility using my OWN proof.

A+B+C = impossible god.

uh huh. sure you did.
i believe that about as much as i believe that youre the greatest ball player and fighter in the world.

i answered your question regarding brigham young so how about you answer mine.
what do YOU believe?
darwinist/atheist? big bang theory? your God is better than my God?
enlighten us.

ps- i wont address the rest of it, because its SO FAR out of line with misinformation that it would be impossible, not to mention a big waste of time, to try and debate. if you would like to do it in person sometime, then i'd be more than obliged. just let me know next time youre out here. until then, its not about "proving" anything. religion is based on faith, and at the end of the day, WHATEVER faith people have deserves to be respected. insulting a large group of people simply because you dont share their beliefs is almost wicked in its insensitivity and meanness of spirit.

pps- i sincerely hope you take me up on the offer to talk in person sometime, and many here that know me will tell you im not the type to sit behind a computer and hide. also, while youre here, i'd like to see you "destroy me on the court".
i walked with a cane up until 4 months ago (also verifiable) and now have titanium in my lower back......and im willing to bet before i even see you that ill still beat you. while im not idiotic enough to claim that i can "destroy ANYONE", basketball is something ive earned some degree of cockiness. come get humbled and lose to a cripple.

[Bob]

Yes. They/you are insane if you seriously believe that Joe Smith had some gold plates (never seen), and translated them using rocks, into a faith where Israelites crossed the Atlantic to the Amazon. Did I mention the witnesses testified that it was all a lie?

How about the fact that what he used to translate into his "Book of Abraham" is Egyptian Hyroglyphics which of course make no mention of Abraham, and furthermore once actually translated are nothing even remotely close to the story that Joe Smith pretended it said.
<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/hcyzkd_m6KE"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/hcyzkd_m6KE" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>


It's called doing research. If you go to the official LDS website, you can chat directly to a missionary at BYU. I confronted him with all of this, he had no answers whatsoever.

When I pressed him about what <b>Brigham Young</b> (you Dom Casual convieniently left that part of my post out I noticed) said about how

<b>"the penalty for seeding with a negro will be death, and this will ALWAYS be so", </b>

he refused to talk about it, and refused to say that what he said was wrong. I asked him if he believed that people should be put to death for seeding with a black person, he said of course not. I asked him then was Brigham Young wrong, and he changed the subject and said God was speaking to him, <b>and that at sometime only some races recieved the blessings of God.</b>

Also, DNA evidence completely debunked his absurd stories. Ask BYU, they did the study themselves!!! LOL

I could not live among the insane for any amount of money.

I think you are making a convicing augument to move there -- I am assuming that you are not just posing as a non-resident of Utah? As if you are not in Utah, and those like you, than it might be a more open place to live.

If you think that many aspects of my faith are a hoax? Well, fine, I am ok with your belief – thank goodness you have a right to it. But by extrapolation does one have to believe that all LDS folks are also evil, unkind, and bigoted folks? I mean there are MANY on this board that think that the resurrection is a hoax, and that God is a hoax, or that Catholicism is a hoax, or that the Koran is not the word of God. But I try to be concerned with someone who is so full of hatred that he/she will kill me if I have a different viewpoint – not with what I think are weird beliefs, like the “great flying Spaghetti God” as some have stated on this board. I am concerned with someone who would be inclined to hate me (as you would ) because of my faith alone, rather than the way I would treat you (which would be with respect) and hopefully with some generosity. In the 1830’s there were some in Missouri who eventually felt a need to rape and kill Mormons before and after Governor Boggs made it legal to do so – and why? Polygamy entered into by adults, and other “weird” practices – oh, and yes because the Mormons didn’t like the practice of slavery, and there many who were frightened about a large voting block of anti-slavery folks moving in.

Heaven knows I am not the person that I want to be, but it is easy to spot someone who has become obsessed with attempting to tear down the ideological constructs of another’s faith rather than living your own.

[freak6]

How about the billions of lives that have been saved through the Church's works and donations to the poor?

Again, you are stating your opinion...

Classic. Do I even need to respond to you?

Billions of lives that have been saved through the Church's work...lmfao

The Crusades...

Holocaust...

9/11

All the virgins slaughtered by Native Americans

The O.T. sacrafices, how many of those were there? Who knows?

Native Americans.

Islanders.

Chinese vs Budhists and everyone else for that matter.

Muslims vs Jews

Egyptians vs Jews

Catholic vs Christian



Religion has killed many millions more people than it has saved.

But know we all know because <b>BEANTOWN BRONCO</b> said so that the church has saved <b>BILLIONS</b> OF LIVES!!!

That's interesting considering that the world population wasn't even a billion until the 1800's.

LOL

[gunns]

Why are you trying to kill the messenger. Debate the facts!!!


I'm not disputing what you're saying freak because I don't know the answers, nor what it's all about. I'm just wondering how you know it's fact....because you believe it? We get "facts" everyday, doesn't mean they're true no matter what spin they put on it or what scientific evidence they try to present. I'm just wondering.

And how does it make all of the church's doctrine wrong? I don't know of a religion that doesn't have liars or disputable doctrine. As someone said, that's the problem with some religions, they are run by humans and humans are imperfect. What you look for is what you are doing, what you find to be true, to you.

[Bob]

I don't believe in attacking 90% of the world. Please don't put words in my mouth. I do KNOW that religion is a poison, and has done much more damage to the human race than any good it has done. Philosophy should take the place of religion, and all the false charlatans that preach lies and myths as facts.

Thank you for being honest that it is your conviction "that religion is a poison" There are many who have that same opinion, but it has been a long time that I spoken with someone who appears to have the rage that you do on this issue.

Sometime if you can dicuss it without sarcasim dripping from every sentence, we could bat around some ideas. It just seems like a lot of misdirected energy.

[freak6]

uh huh. sure you did.
i believe that about as much as i believe that youre the greatest ball player and fighter in the world.

I don't lie, truth above everything else. I take Honor, Courage, Commitment very seriously. Obviously I was being sarcastic about my athleticism, but I have no fear of competition. I promise you on my son that I talked to 6 different priests and pastors, and each of them once presented with my proof, admitted thier god was impossible.

i answered your question regarding brigham young so how about you answer mine.
what do YOU believe?
darwinist/atheist? big bang theory? your God is better than my God?
enlighten us.
I believe in the truth. I have been able to prove every 'god' myth impossible that I have given time to study. As I already said because I already answered your question, I believe the truth can be found in studying philosophy, and science.


pps- i sincerely hope you take me up on the offer to talk in person sometime, and many here that know me will tell you im not the type to sit behind a computer and hide. also, while youre here, i'd like to see you "destroy me on the court".

When I go back to Denver I'll let you know and we can talk. If you are in Utah, I'd be happy to stop along I-70 and get lunch. As far as hoops go, I'm always down! I have a rock and a football in my car at all times.

[freak6]

I'm not disputing what you're saying freak because I don't know the answers, nor what it's all about. I'm just wondering how you know it's fact....because you believe it? We get "facts" everyday, doesn't mean they're true no matter what spin they put on it or what scientific evidence they try to present. I'm just wondering.


The fact is that what Joseph Smith had were some hieroglyphs which he claimed he could translate, which he did into the book of Abraham, a complete fabrication.

"Joseph wrote this book after he had acquired an Egyptian mummy. The Mummy wrapping was covered with hieroglyphics. Joseph claimed to be able to read them. He said the hieroglyphics told the story of the biblical Abraham and his visit to Egypt. The Book of Abraham contains this story. Some of these hieroglyphics were reproduced in the churches periodical. Scholars tell us that the hieroglyphics are extacts from the Egyptian "Book of the Dead" and have nothing to do with Abraham".

And how does it make all of the church's doctrine wrong? I don't know of a religion that doesn't have liars or disputable doctrine.

The easiest way to destroy a religion is by cutting out it's heart, or it's basis. As I have proven, the basis for the mormon cult is a complete fabrication by a overzealous manipulator named Joseph Smith who was killed for trying to destroy a newspaper exposing his lies.

http://www.nowscape.com/mormon/papyrus/by_his_own_hand.htm

""Professional Egyptologists to whom the Alphabet and Grammar was submitted for examination were quick to point out that the material in Joseph Smith's notebook bore no resemblance at all to any correct understanding of the ancient Egyptian language. As one of them, I. E. Edwards, put it, the whole work was <b>'largely a piece of imagination and lacking in any kind of scientific value.' He added that it reminded him of 'the writings of psychic practitioners which are sometimes sent to me.'"</b>

"All of the evidence adds up to the inescapable conclusion that although Joseph Smith claimed to translate the Book of Abraham from the papyrus he had in his possession, <b>the words that he dictated came from his own imagination. That papyrus, in fact, contains a pagan text having nothing to do with Abraham or his religion. </b>




Luckily this has no basis on my new found spiritual awakening, the truth about the <b>Hixonites</b>, and how <b>Heavenly Father</b> planted the bag of precious metalshttp://illuminations.nctm.org/Lessons/NumberCents/MoneyBag.jpg
for me to put in my eye sockets and find the truth at :pray:<b>Mount St. Elway.</b>

As grand master <b>Joseph Mecklensharpe</b> taught, all I have to do is put my "head in the hat of the allmighty" with my precious metals and I will have the knowledge gained equal to that of <b>Briga</b><i>sham</i><b> Atwaterberg!!! </b>At least that is what the angel MORON told me...

<font size =1>(the above is simply a recreation = to the ridiculousness that mormons believe, and I can't resist making up my own religion which is equally viable as thiers even though mine has only been created in my head and in the bits I send through cyberspace.)

<font size=2>Check out my hat of the allmighty.

[freak6]

Thank you for being honest that it is your conviction "that religion is a poison" There are many who have that same opinion, but it has been a long time that I spoken with someone who appears to have the rage that you do on this issue.

What is mindblowing to me is that everyone does not have the rage that I do. But I put a much higher value on a single life than many. Picture your daughter having her heart cut out because some cult leader demands it.

Imagine your wife was in Tower 2, and had to jump...

Imagine your kids being thrown into Auschwitz for being a Jew...

Imagine your wife being burned at the stake...

To me, intellectual death is almost as bad as physical death. And what fundamentalist religious zealots do to the innocent minds of children is criminal. And it retards the growth of our human race significantly.

Whether a Madrasah teaching death to the infidels, or Brigham Young teaching that mating with a negro is punishable by death, they all make me realize that the only risk to our undervalued and underappreciated continued habitation on this planet is ourselves.

Only humans can whipe out humans, either by force against eachother, or by poisoning the planet to the point we can no longer survive.

Only an ignorant race of humans would do this. A race of humans working together through understanding of the truth through philosophy and science will prosper, not different sects of humans whose religions based upon myths and ignorance cause them to fight.

That is why we must educate our children on facts, not myths. Religion poisons the brain of our kids, and keeps them from understanding and gaining wisdom.

[freak6]

These are for O4L!!!

<font size=4>"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the <i>African race?</i> <font size=2>If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the<i> seed of Cain</i>, the penalty, <b>under the law of God</b>, is death on the spot. This will always be so."

<b>(Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, 10:110)</b>
:loser:

"I have never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call Scripture" (Journal of Discourses (vol 13, page 95),1870)
Uhh

Did you know the Pearly Gates have two lines, one for Whites, and until all of us get in, all of them colored folks will still be waiting in<b> the colored people</b> line. So says <b>Brigham Young!!!</b>

"When all the other children of Adam have had the privilege of receiving the Priesthood, and of coming into the kingdom of God, and of being redeemed from the four quarters of the earth, and have received their resurrection from the dead, then it will be time enough to remove the curse <i>from Cain and his posterity</i>" (Journal of Discourses 2:143).
tsk tsk
Bill McKeever cites on his "Mormon Research Ministries" website:

"Joseph Fielding Smith stated, "Not only was Cain called upon to suffer, but because of his wickedness he became the father of an inferior race" (The Way to Perfection, p.101).
and again:

"The negroes are not equal with other races where the receipt of certain spiritual blessings are concerned, particularly the priesthood and the temple blessings that flow therefrom..." (Mormon Doctrine, p.527, 1966 ed.)
:bs:
In June 1978 the First Presidency announced that President Spencer W. Kimball had received a revelation regarding the ordaining of all worthy men to the priesthood. This "revelation," known as Official Declaration 2, can be found in printed form at the end of the Doctrine and Covenants.

In Declaration 2, Spencer Kimball stated that past prophets of the LDS Church had promised that at some time the ban would be lifted and that God, by revelation, had shown him that the day has come. <b>

The obvious question to ask is, how could the day have come if Brigham Young could say in (as well as others) Journal of Discourses 2:143 that the time would not come would not come until after the resurrection!

[Sassy]

Any updates BMF?

[Hogan11]

Whatever that place is on the lake itself. Honestly, its probably a good idea I didnt take any drugs because holy **** that place stinks. I was ill the whole time.

I'm just glad I'm not the only one here who was sickened to the point of nausea by the smell of that lake and city....I was really beginning to wonder if it was "just me".

[Flyboy063]

I'm just glad I'm not the only one here who was sickened to the point of nausea by the smell of that lake and city....I was really beginning to wonder if it was "just me".

The lake can stink, but it isn't just the lake. It is also the refineries. If you live in the south area of SLC you really don't get the smell of the lake that often. If you live anywhere between North Salt Lake and Brigham City you'll catch the stench everytime a storm blows in. Other than that Utah is a pretty nice place. Especially down south.

[Hogan11]

The lake can stink, but it isn't just the lake. It is also the refineries. If you live in the south area of SLC you really don't get the smell of the lake that often. If you live anywhere between North Salt Lake and Brigham City you'll catch the stench everytime a storm blows in. Other than that Utah is a pretty nice place. Especially down south.

I dunno Man, I smelled that stench from border to border and the closer I got to the Lake, the worse it was....plus it was a drought year the year I went through there, so the odor was really intense. I even start to get a bit queezy thinking about it.

[Flyboy063]

I dunno Man, I smelled that stench from border to border and the closer I got to the Lake, the worse it was....plus it was a drought year the year I went through there, so the odor was really intense. I even start to get a bit queezy thinking about it.

Understandable. It is a very rotten smell and I don't think anybody ever gets use to it. But really the only time we get the stench here (Layton) is when a storm comes in.

I'd rather live next to the lake stench, then the awful vomit and piss smell in New Orleans (prior to Katrina).

BMF - If you get the job, you'll definitely want to check out Strawberry Res. The fishing is good. Some very good ATV trails. Also there is pretty good elk and deer hunting if you draw out. Just something to think about or look forward to.

[Hogan11]

I'd rather live next to the lake stench, then the awful vomit and piss smell in New Orleans (prior to Katrina).

I'll take NOLA everytime over most places (prior to Katrina)...even though I only lived there briefly, I loved it there.
That said, I think I'm waiting three more years or so before I return. Don't know if I can take seeing the devestation yet or not.

[Sassy]

I remember the smell of Salt Lake too...yuck. I also thought it was boring...until we got up in the mountains (We were at Snowbird.)

[v2micca]

I remember the smell of Salt Lake too...yuck. I also thought it was boring...until we got up in the mountains (We were at Snowbird.)

I always preferred Brighton myself. Friendlier to Snowboarders. Anyway, to comment about the bar situation. There is a great little bar in Salt Lake called Port'o'Call. I watched most of the '05 Baseball and Football season there. Nice decor and a great wall of Broncos memorabilia and plenty of High Def Plasmas. I would definitely recommend it for game day.

[DomCasual]

Hey look, it's Bill Brasky!!!

Bill Brasky hated Mexicans! And he was half Mexican! .......And he hated irony!

I once saw him scissor kick Angela Landsbury.

He did 3 tours in 'Nam...... I was in Corpus Christi on business a month ago. I had this eight foot tall Asian waiter, which made me curious. I asked him his name. Sure enough it's Ho Tran Brasky!

He date raped David Bowie.

He sired a baseball team.. an orchestra if you count the bastards!

Brasky once hosted the Grammys and gave every award to Corey Hart.

Brasky's family crest is a picture of a baracudda eating Neil Armstrong.

Brasky named the group Sha-Na-Na. They did NOT want to be called that.

Brasky still believes in Santa Claus, and he wants to put him in porno films.

Bill Brasky is a son of a bitch!

[Beantown Bronco]

Classic. Do I even need to respond to you?

Billions of lives that have been saved through the Church's work...lmfao

The Crusades...

Holocaust...

9/11

All the virgins slaughtered by Native Americans

The O.T. sacrafices, how many of those were there? Who knows?

Native Americans.

Islanders.

Chinese vs Budhists and everyone else for that matter.

Muslims vs Jews

Egyptians vs Jews

Catholic vs Christian



Religion has killed many millions more people than it has saved.

Wow. Yet another elementary-level and predictable bullet-point list of wars started in the name of religion that anyone sitting in an elementary classroom with a teacher with an agenda would learn every day. It's ok. Hold on to those beliefs and don't open up to the possibility that religion has ever done anything positive for people. The military really doesn't encourage people to think for themselves anyway.

But know we all know because <b>BEANTOWN BRONCO</b> said so that the church has saved <b>BILLIONS</b> OF LIVES!!!

That's interesting considering that the world population wasn't even a billion until the 1800's.

LOL

Are you really that dumb (not that I don't know the answer already)? Did I say the church saved billions of people at the same time? No. Over history, they have saved and helped billions. You do understand the concept of billions of people inhabiting the planet at one time or another (not on the same day mind you) WELL BEFORE THE 1800s?

[orange 4 life]

I don't lie, truth above everything else. I take Honor, Courage, Commitment very seriously. Obviously I was being sarcastic about my athleticism, but I have no fear of competition. I promise you on my son that I talked to 6 different priests and pastors, and each of them once presented with my proof, admitted thier god was impossible.

I believe in the truth. I have been able to prove every 'god' myth impossible that I have given time to study. As I already said because I already answered your question, I believe the truth can be found in studying philosophy, and science.

When I go back to Denver I'll let you know and we can talk. If you are in Utah, I'd be happy to stop along I-70 and get lunch. As far as hoops go, I'm always down! I have a rock and a football in my car at all times.

im in castle rock. 20 mins south of denver.
i look forward to meeting you. God knows it'll be an interesting conversation.
we can play some ball and then go grab a bite. just let me know.

as to the rest of your post, i believe in "truth" also, and i find philosophy fascinating, but that doesnt really answer my question.
ill just leave you with this thought (until we meet anyway):

if there is no God of any kind, where did we come from?
before you spout off darwin and big bang, where did THAT come from?
SOMETHING absolutely and without debate CANNOT be created out of NOTHING, yet if you believe there is no higher power, then thats exactly what you believe happened.

if you actually believe that this ENDLESS space that surrounds us (a difficult concept for even the brightest people to really grasp, but think about it some more: ENDLESS) materialized out of NOWHERE, then i say you have ALOT more faith than me. :thumbs:

hope to see you soon,

jake

[orange 4 life]

These are for O4L!!!

<font size=4>"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the <i>African race?</i> <font size=2>If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the<i> seed of Cain</i>, the penalty, <b>under the law of God</b>, is death on the spot. This will always be so."

<b>(Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, 10:110)</b>
:loser:

"I have never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call Scripture" (Journal of Discourses (vol 13, page 95),1870)
Uhh

Did you know the Pearly Gates have two lines, one for Whites, and until all of us get in, all of them colored folks will still be waiting in<b> the colored people</b> line. So says <b>Brigham Young!!!</b>

"When all the other children of Adam have had the privilege of receiving the Priesthood, and of coming into the kingdom of God, and of being redeemed from the four quarters of the earth, and have received their resurrection from the dead, then it will be time enough to remove the curse <i>from Cain and his posterity</i>" (Journal of Discourses 2:143).
tsk tsk
Bill McKeever cites on his "Mormon Research Ministries" website:

"Joseph Fielding Smith stated, "Not only was Cain called upon to suffer, but because of his wickedness he became the father of an inferior race" (The Way to Perfection, p.101).
and again:

"The negroes are not equal with other races where the receipt of certain spiritual blessings are concerned, particularly the priesthood and the temple blessings that flow therefrom..." (Mormon Doctrine, p.527, 1966 ed.)
:bs:
In June 1978 the First Presidency announced that President Spencer W. Kimball had received a revelation regarding the ordaining of all worthy men to the priesthood. This "revelation," known as Official Declaration 2, can be found in printed form at the end of the Doctrine and Covenants.

In Declaration 2, Spencer Kimball stated that past prophets of the LDS Church had promised that at some time the ban would be lifted and that God, by revelation, had shown him that the day has come. <b>

The obvious question to ask is, how could the day have come if Brigham Young could say in (as well as others) Journal of Discourses 2:143 that the time would not come would not come until after the resurrection!

buddy, we've already covered this i thought?

the biggest problem i had (and continue to have) with the church was the stance with regards to black people.
its ALOT more complicated than it appears on the surface, but we'll get into that when you make it out here.

in the meantime, your post pretty much goes RIGHT along with what ive already said.
joseph smith was a prophet, but because of what had been revealed to him (i cant even imagine) he eventually came to think that his every THOUGHT was "scripture", which of course is just silly.
as for brigham young, i said right from the beginning that i think he was a VERY flawed man, and i find it interesting that such a great school continues to be named after him instead of MANY other more suitable choices. he too pretty much came to think that any thought he had was Heaven sent. certainly a stretch IMO.

ANYONE who thinks their every thought is scripture is of course a little high on himself. he sounds kinda like you talking about your athletic ability right? :P
still, both joseph smith and brigham young both did alot of good in their lives, and they gave alot of people a much needed thing: hope.

we'll get into it more in person. too frustrating on the net.

beyond that, just remember that youre insulting a large group of people that YOU YOURSELF said you thought were by and large "good natured".
stop the insults. youre entitled to your beliefs, but the "hixonites" bullsh!t is just an obnoxious insult that ANYONE with even HALF a brain can see accomplishes NOTHING except to insult people. make points if you like, but be civil.
i know you can do it. :thumbsup:

[DomCasual]

hope to see you soon,

jake

No offense to freak - really! - but I would rather get quadruple root canals without anesthesia than "see him soon." He's probably a decent guy, once you get past the pompous, egocentric, unintelligent, douchebag aspect of his personality.

But, like I said, no offense or anything.

[DomCasual]

So, do we have an update yet?

[freak6]

I lost this thread, thanks for the bump Dom.

Jake - I'll be back in Highlands Ranch in 9 months at the latest. It's good you have some grip on reality regarding Brigham Young and Joseph Smith. But I still think the entire basis of the faith has been destroyed over and over, still believing at this point seems futile.

I will say this, if there was a christian god, which there isn't by almost all definitions, he'd give mormons a pass just like he'd give buddhists into heaven.

[BMF Bronco]

Didn't get the job, they put off hiring until october

[DomCasual]

Didn't get the job, they put off hiring until october

Dude, that sucks. Sorry.

Man, I thought you were going to be my neighbor.

[BMF Bronco]

me too man, oh well