Pres Bush drops Prison term for Libby!!

[PLOWHORSE]

Is anyone really surprised at this nonsense? The guy could have gotten a CIA agent killed, and he gets away without prison? Its a shame!

Bush commutes Libby's sentence in CIA leak case
Associated Press
Jul. 2, 2007 03:16 PM

WASHINGTON - President Bush commuted the sentence of former aide I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby Monday, sparing him from a 2.5-year prison term in the CIA leak case.

Bush's move came hours after a federal appeals panel ruled Libby could not delay his prison term in the CIA leak case. That meant Libby was likely to have to report to prison soon and put new pressure on the president, who had been sidestepping calls by Libby's allies to pardon the former chief of staff to Vice President Dick Cheney.

“I respect the jury's verdict,” Bush said in a statement. “But I have concluded that the prison sentence given to Mr. Libby is excessive. Therefore, I am commuting the portion of Mr. Libby's sentence that required him to spend thirty months in prison.”





Bush left intact a $250,000 fine and two years probation for Libby, and Bush said his action still “leaves in place a harsh punishment for Mr. Libby.”

Libby was convicted in March of lying to authorities and obstructing the investigation into the 2003 leak of CIA operative's identity. He was the highest-ranking White House official ordered to prison since the Iran-Contra affair.

Reaction was harsh from Democrats.

“As Independence Day nears, we're reminded that one of the principles our forefathers fought for was equal justice under the law. This commutation completely tramples on that principle,” Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., said through a spokesman.

Libby's supporters celebrated.

“That's fantastic. It's a great relief,” said former Ambassador Richard Carlson, who helped raise millions for Libby's defense fund. “Scooter Libby did not deserve to go to prison and I'm glad the president had the courage to do this.”

A message seeking comment from Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald's office was not immediately returned.

Bush said Cheney's former aide was not getting off free.

“The reputation he gained through his years of public service and professional work in the legal community is forever damaged,” Bush said. “His wife and young children have also suffered immensely. He will remain on probation. The significant fines imposed by the judge will remain in effect. The consequences of his felony conviction on his former life as a lawyer, public servant and private citizen will be long-lasting.”

[Killericon]

“I respect the jury's verdict,” Bush said in a statement. “But I have concluded that the prison sentence given to Mr. Libby is excessive. Therefore, I am commuting the portion of Mr. Libby's sentence that required him to spend thirty months in prison.”

I AM THE DECIDER!

http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/d/dreddss.jpg

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Unreal really, he didn't even wait until the appeal was over or the end of his term to do it.

[rugbythug]

Is anyone really surprised at this nonsense? The guy could have gotten a CIA agent killed, and he gets away without prison? Its a shame!



That's total crap and you know it. Libby did not leak the non-secret agents name in the first place.

[rugbythug]

I AM THE DECIDER!

http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/d/dreddss.jpg

Nice Cup!

[cutthemdown]

considering all the people Clinton pardoned democrats shouldn't be upset. As Americans we can be a little upset because if we get in trouble the President won't be bailing us out. At least he didn't pardon him and he still has to pay the fine and be on probation. He also is still guilty of the crime and will have a record of that.

[Killericon]

Nice Cup!

http://www.pensitoreview.com/images/photos-george-bush-mission-accomplished-codpiece.jpg

[Crushaholic]

Presidential pardons (both parties) are a load of crap and is one of the reasons this country is going to hell in a handbasket. Even though this isn't technically a pardon, it still reeks of a corrupt governmental process...

[rugbythug]

Unreal really, he didn't even wait until the appeal was over or the end of his term to do it.

He was going to have to serve time while waiting for his appeal. So he needed to do it now or never.

[Garcia Bronco]

Is this the right forum for this thread? Somebody should do something. :)

[Killericon]

considering all the people Clinton pardoned democrats shouldn't be upset. As Americans we can be a little upset because if we get in trouble the President won't be bailing us out. At least he didn't pardon him and he still has to pay the fine and be on probation. He also is still guilty of the crime and will have a record of that.

I don't condone anyone pardoning someone. Be it Clinton, Lincoln, Lester B. Pearson, or Bush.

[PLOWHORSE]

Nice Cup!

I bet Stallone regrets ever making that movie..Hilarious!

[rugbythug]

Presidential pardons (both parties) are a load of crap and is one of the reasons this country is going to hell in a handbasket....

That is the least of our problems. The lack of parents in the home is the biggest issue facing America IMO.

[Needa Pass Rush]

List of people pardoned by Bill Clinton

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Jump to: navigation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_pardoned_by_Bill_Clinton#column-one), search (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_pardoned_by_Bill_Clinton#searchInpu t)
<!-- start content -->The following is a partial list of people pardoned by Bill Clinton. On January 20 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_20), 2001 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001), hours before leaving office, President Bill Clinton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton) used his power under the U.S. Constitution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Constitution) to pardon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pardon) 140 people, thus commuting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commutation_%28law%29) the sentences of those already convicted of a crime, and obviating a trial for those not yet convicted.
This list is a subset of the list of people pardoned by a United States president (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_pardoned_by_a_United_States_preside nt).
This list is incomplete (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Lists#Incomplete_lists); you can help by expanding it (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_people_pardoned_by_Bill_Cl inton&action=edit).
<TABLE class=toc id=toc summary=Contents><TBODY><TR><TD>Contents

[hide (javascript:toggleToc())]
<LI class=toclevel-1>1 Commutations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_pardoned_by_Bill_Clinton#Commutatio ns) <LI class=toclevel-1>2 Pardons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_pardoned_by_Bill_Clinton#Pardons) <LI class=toclevel-1>3 See also (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_pardoned_by_Bill_Clinton#See_also)
4 References (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_pardoned_by_Bill_Clinton#References )</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><SCRIPT type=text/javascript>//<![CDATA[ if (window.showTocToggle) { var tocShowText = "show"; var tocHideText = "hide"; showTocToggle(); } //]]></SCRIPT>[/URL]
[edit (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/)] Commutations


Benjamin Berger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Berger)
Ronald Henderson Blackley
Bert Wayne Bolan
Gloria Libia Camargo
Charles F. Campbell
David Ronald Chandler
Lau Ching Chin
Donald R. Clark
Loreta De-Ann Coffman
Derrick Curry
Velinda Desalus
Jacob Elbaum
Linda Sue Evans
Loretta Sharon Fish
Antoinette M. Frink
David Goldstein
Gerard A. Greenfield
Jodie E. Israel
Kimberly Johnson
Billy Thornton Langston Jr.
Belinda Lynn Lumpkin
Peter MacDonald - President of the Navajo Nation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navajo_Nation)
Kellie Ann Mann
Peter Ninemire
Hugh Ricardo Padmore
Arnold Paul Prosperi
Melvin J. Reynolds (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mel_Reynolds) - Democratic Congressman from Illinois - bank fraud (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_fraud) and obstruction of justice (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obstruction_of_justice)
Pedro Miguel Riveiro
Dorothy Rivers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Rivers) - lead official in Jesse Jackson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Jackson)’s Rainbow (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainbow)/PUSH (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PUSH) Coalition, plead guilty to theft of 1.2 million dollars in federal grant money
Susan Rosenberg
Kalmen Stern
Cory Stringfellow
Carlos Anibal Vignali (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Vignali) - convicted (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convict) of cocaine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocaine) trafficking (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_trafficking)
Thomas Wilson Waddell III
Harvey Weinig
Kim Allen Willis
Kimba Smith
Antonio Camacho Negron - FALN (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FALN) militant
[[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_people_pardoned_by_Bill_Cl inton&action=edit&section=2"]edit (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/)] Pardons


Verla Jean Allen (1990 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990) false statements to an agency (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_agency) of the United States)
Nicholas M. Altiere (1983 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983) importation of cocaine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocaine))
Bernice Ruth Altschul (1992 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992) money laundering (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_laundering) conspiracy)
Joe Anderson Jr. (1988 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988) income tax evasion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_evasion))
William Sterling Anderson (1987 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1987) defraudment of a financial institution, false statements to a financial institution, wire fraud (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wire_fraud))
Mansour Azizkhani (1984 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984) false statements in bank loan applications)
Cleveland Victor Babin Jr. (1987 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1987) using the U.S. mail service to defraud)
Chris Harmon Bagley (1989 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989) conspiracy to possess with intent to distribute cocaine)
Scott Lynn Bane (Unlawful distribution of marijuana)
Thomas Cleveland Barber (Issuing worthless checks)
Peggy Ann Bargon (Violation of the Lacey Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lacey_Act), violation of the Bald Eagle Protection Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bald_Eagle_Protection_Act&action=edit))
David Roscoe Blampied (possess with intent to distribute cocaine)
William Arthur Borders (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=William_Arthur_Borders&action=edit) Jr. (Conspiracy to corruptly solicit and accept money in return for influencing the official acts of a federal district court judge (Alcee L. Hastings (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcee_L._Hastings)), and to defraud the United States in connection with the performance of lawful government functions; corruptly influencing, obstructing, impeding and endeavoring to influence, obstruct and impede the due administration of justice, and aiding and abetting therein; traveling interstate with intent to commit bribery)
Arthur David Borel (Odometer Rollback)
Douglas Chrles Borel (Odometer Rollback)
George Thomas Brabham (Making a false statement or report to a federally insured bank)
Almon Glenn Braswell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almon_Glenn_Braswell) (1983 mail fraud (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mail_fraud) and perjury (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perjury))
Leonard Browder (Illegal dispensing of controlled substance and Medicaid fraud)
David Steven Brown (Securities fraud and mail fraud)
Delores Caroylene Burleson, aka Delores Cox Burleson (Possession of Marijuana)
John H. Bustamante (wire fraud)
Mary Louise Campbell
Eloida Candelaria
Dennis Sobrevinas Capili
Donna Denise Chambers
Douglas Eugene Chapman
Ronald Keith Chapman
Francisco Larois Chavez
Henry Cisneros (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Cisneros) (former HUD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Housing_and_Urban_Deve lopment) Secretary (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Secretary_of_Housing_and_Urban_Devel opment))
Roger Clinton, Jr. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Clinton%2C_Jr.) (half-brother of President (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President) Bill Clinton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton))
Stuart Harris Cohn
David Marc Cooper
Ernest Harley Cox Jr.
John F. Cross Jr.
Reickey Lee Cunningham
Richard Anthony De Labio
John Deutch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Deutch) (former Director of Central Intelligence Agency (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Intelligence_Agency))
Richard Douglas
Edward Reynolds Downe
Marvin Dean Dudley
Larry Lee Duncan
Robert Clinton Fain
Marcos Arcenio Fernandez
Alvarez Ferrouillet
William Dennis Fugazy
Lloyd Reid George
Louis Goldstein
Rubye Lee Gordon
Pincus Green (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pincus_Green)
Robert Ivey Hamner
Samuel Price Handley
Woodie Randolph Handley
Jay Houston Harmon
Rick Hendrick (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Hendrick)
John Hummingson
David S. Herdlinger
Debi Rae Huckleberry
Warren C. Hultgren Jr.
Donald Ray James
Stanley Pruet Jobe
Ruben H. Johnson
Linda Jones
James Howard Lake
June Louise Lewis
Salim Bonnor Lewis
John Leighton Lodwick
Hildebrando Lopez
Jose Julio Luaces
James Timothy Maness
James Lowell Manning, (1982, aiding and assisting in the preparation of a false corporate income tax return)
John Robert Martin
Frank Ayala Martinez
Silvia Leticia Beltran Martinez
John Francis McCormick
Susan H. McDougal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_McDougal)
Howard Mechanic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Mechanic)
Brook K. Mitchell Sr.
Samuel Loring Morison (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Loring_Morison)
Charles Wilfred Morgan III
Richard Anthony Nazzaro
Charlene Ann Nosenko
Vernon Raymond Obermeier
Miguelina Ogalde
David C. Owen
Robert W. Palmer
Kelli Anne Perhosky
Richard H. Pezzopane
Orville Rex Phillips
Vinson Stewart Poling Jr.
Norman Lyle Prouse
Willie H.H. Pruitt Jr.[1] (http://www.sptimes.com/News/021101/news_pf/Pasco/Clinton_pardon_arrive.shtml)
Danny Martin Pursley Sr.
Charles D. Ravenel
William Clyde Ray
Alfredo Luna Regalado
Ildefonso Reynes Ricafort
Marc Rich (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Rich) - tax evasion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_evasion) fugitive (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugitive)
Howard Winfield Riddle
Richard Wilson Riley Jr.
Samuel Lee Robbins
Joel Gonzales Rodriguez
Michael James Rogers
Anna Louise Ross
Dan Rostenkowski (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Rostenkowski) - Former Democratic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Party_%28United_States%29) Congressman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_of_Representatives) convicted in the Congressional Post Office Scandal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_Post_Office_Scandal)
Gerald Glen Rust
Jerri Ann Rust
Bettye June Rutherford
Gregory Lee Sands
Adolph Schwimmer
Albert A. Seretti Jr.
Patricia Campbell Hearst Shaw (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patty_Hearst)
Dennis Joseph Smith
Gerald Owen Smith
Stephen A. Smith
Jimmie Lee Speake
Charles Bernard Stewart
Marlena Francisca Stewart-Rollins
Fife Symington III (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fife_Symington_III) - former Arizona (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona) governor
Richard Lee Tannehill
Nicholas C. Tenaglia
Gary Allen Thomas
Larry Weldon Todd
Olga C. Trevino
Ignatious Vamvouklis
Patricia A. Van De Weerd
Christopher V. Wade (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Wade)
Bill Wayne Warmath
Jack Kenneth Watson
Donna Lynn Webb
Donald William Wells
Robert H. Wendt
Jack L. Williams
Kavin Arthur Williams
Robert Michael Williams
Jimmie Lee Wilson
Thelma Louise Wingate
Mitchell Couey Wood
Warren Stannard Wood
Dewey Worthey
Rick Allen Yale
Joseph A. Yasak
William Stanley Yingling
Phillip David Young
Keith Sanders
Darren Muci
John Scott (not a full pardon)
Anthony M Pilla

[Crushaholic]

That is the least of our problems. The lack of parents in the home is the biggest issue facing America IMO.

You're right about the lack of parents in the home. I just said ONE of the reasons. There are many things to fix in this country...

[Bronco_Beerslug]

He was going to have to serve time while waiting for his appeal. So he needed to do it now or never.I heard that's the general procedure when you have been found guilty in a court of law.

[elsid13]

It isn't a pardon, Bush commuted the jail sentence*, Liddy still pays the fine of 250K. (IE he didn't let the little rich white guy go to jail to room with guys named Bubby.)

IT IS TOTAL BS though

[NYBronco]

While we're on a roll, Amnesty for all illegals.

[Atlas]

HAHAHAHA you know he believes in executing retarded people but he thought the sentence on Libby was too harsh. Un****ing believable

[cutthemdown]

let's go fishing. I like my Sea Bass broiled with some garlic butter and a squirt of lemon. What about you Vlad?

[Bronco_Beerslug]

While we're on a roll, Amnesty for all illegals.Well, that's going to happen eventually in some form no matter who is in majority.

[freak6]

Worst President ever?

Check.

3rd worst Human being ever?

Check.

IMO only Hitler and Cheney are worse.

[Killericon]

Worst President ever?

Check.

3rd worst Human being ever?

Check.

IMO only Hitler and Cheney are worse.

Bush is worse than Nero and Caligula? Wow...

[Atlas]

Worst President ever?

Check.

3rd worst Human being ever?

Check.

IMO only Hitler and Cheney are worse.

Ghengis Kahn and Caligula were worse. Well, Kahn was actually worshipped by his own people as he was killing his enemies.... well, OK but Caligula was worse than Bush. It's close though.

[spdirty]

Bush is worse than Nero and Caligula? Wow...

and Pol Pot and Stalin and Mao and Kim Il Sung and Kin Jung Il and Kevin Federline...Its True. Bush is worse than everyone, even the devil.

[Atlas]

and Pol Pot and Stalin and Mao and Kim Il Sung and Kin Jung Il and Kevin Federline...Its True. Bush is worse than everyone, even the devil.

He is definately worse than the Devil. After all at least the Devil is honest about who he is.

[TailgateNut]

He is definately worse than the Devil. After all at least the Devil is honest about who he is.



LOL Saying Bush lies will bring the wrath of "the lone bolt".


Seriously, is anyone surprised? Don't question the Deciders' decisions.

[spdirty]

He is definately worse than the Devil. After all at least the Devil is honest about who he is.

No he isn't. The devil is a master of deception. But still, Bush is worse.

[Atlas]

No he isn't. The devil is a master of deception. But still, Bush is worse.

HAHAHA Finally the right and the Left can agree on something!!
I must admit if the final race for Pres comes down to Gulianni and Hillary I'll be conflicted.

[OrangeDoofus]

"If there's a leak out of my administration, I want to know who it is. If the person has violated law, that person will be taken care of." -- George W. Bush, February 2004. (http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/09/30/wilson.cia/)

I guess now we know what "taken care of" means.

[TexanBob]

114. Stephen A. Smith

I always suspected he had a rap sheet...:rofl:

[Malcontent]

That's total crap and you know it. Libby did not leak the non-secret agents name in the first place.

Blinders off!!!Ha!

[BroncoBen]

considering all the people Clinton pardoned democrats shouldn't be upset. As Americans we can be a little upset because if we get in trouble the President won't be bailing us out. At least he didn't pardon him and he still has to pay the fine and be on probation. He also is still guilty of the crime and will have a record of that.

And how much you want to bet that is the next step... a pardon before Bush leaves office. If it was you or I we would do the time even Paris did her time, but not Libby, oh yeah its Clintons fault.

[Orange_Beard]

Bush should be in jail.
This has really gone to far.

[Crushaholic]

Is this the right forum for this thread? Somebody should do something. :)

Beerslug didn't start this thread, so it's alright...:clown:

[Rigs11]

Right before the fourth, this president reminds us again of how corrupt his admin has become. No accountability whatsoever, no respect for the rule of law.I sincerely hope that you people that voted for this POS give serious thought in the upcoming election.

[Play2win]

He is definately worse than the Devil.

You think BUSH is worse than Karl Rove... I don't know thats a pretty tough call.

[Paladin]

Dear old Ronnie Reagan pardoned 466 criminals during his stint. One of whome was old Ollie North.........

The afflicition is a non-partisan issue......

[sirhcyennek81]

Amazing. A CIA analyst becomes a secret agent man and suddenly the safety of the Republic is in jeopardy because Libby may or may not have heard Plame's husband say at a white house function "oh yeah, my wife works for the CIA".


:Broncos:

[sirhcyennek81]

Right before the fourth, this president reminds us again of how corrupt his admin has become. No accountability whatsoever, no respect for the rule of law.I sincerely hope that you people that voted for this POS give serious thought in the upcoming election.


Right. Forget the fact that the previous administration changed the definition of words to avoid legal issues, or had their flunkies remove documents important to the war on terror removed from national archives and destroyed. Or was engaged in legal battle after legal battle because of their lack of morality or transparency. Explain how missing white water documents appear from mrs. clinton's office the day after the statute of limitations expires. Whatever works for now, I suppose.

:Broncos:

[baja]

Is this the right forum for this thread? Somebody should do something. :)

It's big news and this is off season.

I like you Garcia but thank God you now can not abuse your power any more. Nice to have a small victory for the board.

[R8R H8R]

Right before the fourth, this president reminds us again of how corrupt his admin has become. No accountability whatsoever, no respect for the rule of law.I sincerely hope that you people that voted for this POS give serious thought in the upcoming election.

Yes, I am giving serious thought indeed. It is either Rudy or Fred Thompson, I can't decide yet. :sunshine:

[baja]

"Either you are with us or against us."

See when you are one of "us" you are covered

[SoCalBronco]

Hey baja, how was Thailand?

[baja]

Hey baja, how was Thailand?

It was a very great trip So Cal.

I was in Napal, Cambodia, Bali, Tibet and Bangkok as well as Ko Samoi, Thailand.

What an incredible learning experience it was.

[Garcia Bronco]

It was a very great trip So Cal.

I was in Napal, Cambodia, Bali, Tibet and Bangkok as well as Ko Samoi, Thailand.

What an incredible learning experience it was.

Here is something I found interesting about there...If you see a moped with a famliy riding on it in Thailand ...say two children...a wife...and husband. Who do you think probably gets to wear the only helmet?

[baja]

If there was a helmet I usually saw the driver wearing it.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

That's total crap and you know it. Libby did not leak the non-secret agents name in the first place.

Who said he did?

That's not what he was convicted for.

He was convicted for perjury and obstruction.

(But crimes like these only matter when they're about sex, right?)

BTW, the CIA itself asked for the investigation of the leak.

Are you really trying to suggest that the CIA doesn't know who its own covert agents are? It's hard to believe anyone could be dumb enough to suggest such a thing.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I like you Garcia but thank God you now can not abuse your power any more. Nice to have a small victory for the board.

Wow - what did I miss?

A victory indeed, if true. :thumbsup:

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Right. Forget the fact that the previous administration changed the definition of words to avoid legal issues...

:bs:

The onus to provide these definitions was on the prosecutor - not Clinton.

That's how the law works.

You are essentially arguing that Clinton was wrong for not helping the prosecution make its case against him.

Gotta love that right-wing "logic" (and cluelessness re: the law.) :D

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

And how much you want to bet that is the next step... a pardon before Bush leaves office. If it was you or I we would do the time even Paris did her time, but not Libby, oh yeah its Clintons fault.

:rofl:

Anyone else appreciate the irony here?

Whenever you mention Bill Clinton, the right-wingnuts jabber on and on about how "it's not the sex - it's the (alleged) perjury."

But when the "president" they support commutes the sentence of a convicted perjurer these same wingnuts have no problem with it.

Gotta love that right-wing double standard. :D

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

considering all the people Clinton pardoned democrats shouldn't be upset.

:oyvey:

First of all, this wasn't a pardon - it was a commutation of a sentence.

(A sentence given to a convicted perjurer by a court of law.)

Second, it's not a question of how many pardons Clinton (or any other president) grants - it's a question of who was pardoned and for what crime.

If memory serves me, Clinton's pardon of Marc Rich was the one the right-wingnuts made a big stink about. They were even making big noise about an investigation at one point. Then, when it became known that Rich was one of Scooter Libby's clients, (the irony just keeps on coming) the republicans were suddenly dead quiet about the whole matter and let it drop.

Go figure.

[cheese1]

:rofl:

Anyone else appreciate the irony here?

Whenever you mention Bill Clinton, the right-wingnuts jabber on and on about how "it's not the sex - it's the (alleged) perjury."

But when the "president" they support commutes the sentence of a convicted perjurer these same wingnuts have no problem with it.

Gotta love that right-wing double standard. :D

F uck off,,,,


P s how do you wipe that cum off your chin

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

F uck off,,,,

You do the "family values" party proud.

P s how do you wipe that cum off your chin

Sorry - can't help you with that one.

Maybe don't put on the monogrammed 'W' knee pads to begin with...?

[BroncoBuff]

I wish he hadn't pardoned Stephen A. Smith .... I can't stand that guy.


Did anybody else notice there's a lotta southern girl's name on that list? Betty Sue, Linda Jo, Kellie Jane, Thelma Louise (serious), Belinda Jo Lumpkin (again, serious), Donna Denise, Mary Lou, Verla Jean, Charlene Ann, Betty June ... Uhh :kiddingme ::)

[broncocalijohn]

:rofl:

Anyone else appreciate the irony here?

Whenever you mention Bill Clinton, the right-wingnuts jabber on and on about how "it's not the sex - it's the (alleged) perjury."

But when the "president" they support commutes the sentence of a convicted perjurer these same wingnuts have no problem with it.

Gotta love that right-wing double standard. :D


Dont start with double standards as we have discussed the sexgate crap from one republican gay congressman with outcrys from the left only to be reminded that they didnt do crap for pedophiles and members like Barney Frank. Or Kerry wanting to have a new law named after the disgrace Cunningham on curbing such activity when he had 5 oopportunities to pass a bill with a DEMOCRAT member for same situational crimes. Standards come on both sides.

Pardon or not, he says pardons take time before acting. Compeon and Ramos are still in prison. Seems Bush forgot about those two border agents or he never will pardon them (as most knew will happen).

[baja]

:bs:

The onus to provide these definitions was on the prosecutor - not Clinton.

That's how the law works.

You are essentially arguing that Clinton was wrong for not helping the prosecution make its case against him.

Gotta love that right-wing "logic" (and cluelessness re: the law.) :D

Wow!! You're back this is great.

Where have you been?

[defenseman]

Worst President ever?

Check.

3rd worst Human being ever?

Check.

IMO only Hitler and Cheney are worse.

Your opinion, is duly noted...dman

[defenseman]

:oyvey:

First of all, this wasn't a pardon - it was a commutation of a sentence.

(A sentence given to a convicted perjurer by a court of law.)

Second, it's not a question of how many pardons Clinton (or any other president) grants - it's a question of who was pardoned and for what crime.

If memory serves me, Clinton's pardon of Marc Rich was the one the right-wingnuts made a big stink about. They were even making big noise about an investigation at one point. Then, when it became known that Rich was one of Scooter Libby's clients, (the irony just keeps on coming) the republicans were suddenly dead quiet about the whole matter and let it drop.

Go figure.

the spin-meister STRIKES!!!!! Is there anything you can't justify? Just entertaining as hell. Please tell me you live in california..............dman

[cheese1]

Wow!! You're back this is great.

Where have you been?

sucking cock on Santa Monica

[Garcia Bronco]

It's big news and this is off season.

I like you Garcia but thank God you now can not abuse your power any more. Nice to have a small victory for the board.

I never abused anything Baja. I would love for you to point when I did.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

sucking cock on Santa Monica

You sound like a man of experience.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

the spin-meister STRIKES!!!!!

Newsflash: Bush just commuted the sentence of a convicted perjurer.

You are the one who has something to spin here.


Is there anything you can't justify?

Is there any factual statement you can't ignore in the name of covering the GOP's flank?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Dont start with double standards as we have discussed the sexgate crap from one republican gay congressman with outcrys from the left only to be reminded that they didnt do crap for pedophiles and members like Barney Frank. Or Kerry wanting to have a new law named after the disgrace Cunningham on curbing such activity when he had 5 oopportunities to pass a bill with a DEMOCRAT member for same situational crimes. Standards come on both sides.

Pardon or not, he says pardons take time before acting. Compeon and Ramos are still in prison. Seems Bush forgot about those two border agents or he never will pardon them (as most knew will happen).

Incoherent and irrelevant as ever.

The point was that right-wingers like you pile on Clinton for his alleged perjury, i.e., repeat the mantra "it's not the sex - it's the perjury," but when Bush commutes the sentence of a convicted perjurer you have no problem with it.

[bendog]

Everyone knew this was coming. Cheney has to be protected.

[baja]

I never abused anything Baja. I would love for you to point when I did.

Garcia I have felt for a long time now that you reacted to your emotions in regard to the way you moderated on this board. I love ya for taking the time to send me all the draft updates and have enjoyed knowing you these last 6 years but as a mod you were not fair handed IMO bro. Hell I would make a lousy mod but I like to think I am a good poster.

[Rigs11]

Right. Forget the fact that the previous administration changed the definition of words to avoid legal issues, or had their flunkies remove documents important to the war on terror removed from national archives and destroyed. Or was engaged in legal battle after legal battle because of their lack of morality or transparency. Explain how missing white water documents appear from mrs. clinton's office the day after the statute of limitations expires. Whatever works for now, I suppose.

:Broncos:

I could go back and state similar ones by the previous Bush admin. The question is does what the previous admin did somehow excuse the current one?Hey if you wanna keep living in the past while this corrupt admin breaks laws after laws with zingers that they are not part of a part of goverment or that the rules don't apply to them go right ahead.Talk about changing the definition of words? this admin changes the definition of laws altogether.

[Rigs11]

Yes, I am giving serious thought indeed. It is either Rudy or Fred Thompson, I can't decide yet. :sunshine:

hey if you want another incompetent fear mongering idiot go right ahead. you must be so proud.

[RocBronc]

I think a $250,000 dollar fine is appropriate for his crime, jail time for his case was excessive. Clinton paid a $90,000 fine for his perjury so I don't see the problem.

Let's review some facts about this case...

Valerie Plame was not an "undercover" CIA agent, so leaking her name to the public was not a crime.

Fitzgerald, (the prosecuter) discovered early on in his investigation that the "leaker" was Richard Armitage, a state department official. After learning this the investigation should have ended. But it didn't, and in the ensuing investigation is when Libby was convicted of perjury.

Do these facts change the fact that a jury convicted Libby of perjury? NO... Is he being punished? Yes... $250,000 isn't exactly chump change.

IMO, the real criminal here was Fitzgerald, who engaged in an unethical investigation but is anything going to happen to him or is anyone upset with Libby's commutation upset at him???

[TailgateNut]

Clinton's perjury was in regards to a "personal" affair which in my opinion was harmless whereas the coverup and underlying reason for outing Valerie Plame has affected every American citizen and many Iraquis.
To compare the two is assinine! I know perjury is perjury, but laws are laws.

[bendog]

Here's the point.

Clinton lied about a private sexual affair, and the gop sought fit to try to remove a twice elected potus who was driving them nuts in out manuevering them and frustrating the neocons and spend but don't tax "conservatives."

Bushii lied about a war, and there is no accountablilty.

http://hardblogger.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/07/02/254394.aspx

The gop is morally bankrupt, and they have bankrupted the treasury on their way out of power.

[R8R H8R]

hey if you want another incompetent fear mongering idiot go right ahead. you must be so proud.

If I wanted incompetent, I'd vote for Jimmy Carter. If I wanted a fear mongering idiot, I'd vote for Al Gore (global warming).

And yes, I am proud. Thanks for asking. 8')

[R8R H8R]

I think a $250,000 dollar fine is appropriate for his crime, jail time for his case was excessive. Clinton paid a $90,000 fine for his perjury so I don't see the problem.

Let's review some facts about this case...

Valerie Plame was not an "undercover" CIA agent, so leaking her name to the public was not a crime.

Fitzgerald, (the prosecuter) discovered early on in his investigation that the "leaker" was Richard Armitage, a state department official. After learning this the investigation should have ended. But it didn't, and in the ensuing investigation is when Libby was convicted of perjury.

Do these facts change the fact that a jury convicted Libby of perjury? NO... Is he being punished? Yes... $250,000 isn't exactly chump change.

IMO, the real criminal here was Fitzgerald, who engaged in an unethical investigation but is anything going to happen to him or is anyone upset with Libby's commutation upset at him???

Yes, you are correct, but from the press' point of view:
Why let facts get in the way of a juicy "scandal"? :yayaya:

[TheDave]

Valerie Plame was not an "undercover" CIA agent, so leaking her name to the public was not a crime.



Not this again...

[bendog]

Yes, you are correct, but from the press' point of view:
Why let facts get in the way of a juicy "scandal"? :yayaya:

oh, the irony.

[RocBronc]

Clinton's perjury was in regards to a "personal" affair which in my opinion was harmless whereas the coverup and underlying reason for outing Valerie Plame has affected every American citizen and many Iraquis.
To compare the two is assinine! I know perjury is perjury, but laws are laws.

Clinton's perjury occurred during a legal case of sexual misconduct brought by Paula Jones, it wasn't "pesonal".
Richard Armitage leaked her name... She wasn't an undercover agent. Where's the damage?

Also, please do a little research, Whether or not Iraqi tried to obtain Yellowcake isn't clear. British Intelligence did find some evidence. It wasn't a "lie" as you claim. This article does a good summary...

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/07/11/sprj.irq.wmdspeech/

[bendog]

bushii lied about a war and 3400 Americans who are better than you are DEAD. WJC lied about a bj, and the gop tried to subvert the will of the voters. Get a ****ing clue.

[RocBronc]

Name for me one "lie" of President Bush...

Reminder: An error or a mistake is different than a lie... (Getting all the questions on a test wrong gets you a failing grade. Cheating on a test gets you expelled.)


One more thing... If outing Valerie Plame was a crime why didn't Fitzgerald bring any charges against Armitage and why isn't anybody who says they are concerned about this supposed breach of security upset about that???

[bendog]

He lied. In the spring before the invasion, anyone paying attention had to know saddam was no near term danger. The authorization of force was predicated on the possibility of saddam having smallpox or a nuke. Blix and el-Bahradi discovered that. Force to enforce inspections was fine. But the war was about nationbuilding. If it wasn't about nationbuilding we wouldn't still ****ing be in that camel **** desert.

If you are one of the 25% who still don't think shrub lied, then you are partisan and beyond reason, and I'll ignore you from now on.

Personally, I think the Libby thing is a joke. He broke the law. Commutting the sentence? I don't care. The jury members said afterward they thought cheney was the guy who should have been on trial, and I don't think there's any doubt that cheney and rove cooked up the outing of plame to discredit Wilson who was hitting them where it hurt, ie lies about the nukes. Once the insurgency started, the administration realized they'd committed a huge cluster**** and were going down the ****ter of history because nation building was not going to pay for itself and Americans were going to die by the hundreds (and thousands), and they panicked and struck out at all their critics, including hagel ... who was the first politician who wouldn't back down from Rove. Rove became ineffective once the critics stopped running from his personal attacks. But it was only possible to survive the attacks once it became impossible to avoid the fact that bushii lied. The story is bushii's lies. Not really Scooter.

As to why Armitrage wasn't prosecuted ... he didn't break the law. He told Fitzgerald, and more importantly the WH right after he spoke to Saffire. He assumed Saffire already knew, and didn't realize he was revealing anythign possibly secret. But, you appear to misunderstand. The Scooter thing wasn't about Sapphire's story. It was about Judith Miller and the Wash Post. Rove was the source for those stories. That's what Scooter lied about.

[sirhcyennek81]

bushii lied about a war and 3400 Americans who are better than you are DEAD. WJC lied about a bj, and the gop tried to subvert the will of the voters. Get a ****ing clue.

WJC lied. Became obsessed with his lie, broke more laws covering the lie, had his wife and advisors attack the people exposing the lies, became so engrossed covering up his lie he would attack Iraq with missiles or send american troops to bosnia as diversions. Clinton ignored threats from Al Qaeda to save his own ass, which led indirectly to the deaths of 6500 American civilians and military personnel, as well as thousands of iraqis and afghanis. As for subverting the will of the voters...Al Gore tried that in 2000 when he attempted to throw out the overseas military vote and hand picked counties tilted in the Democrat's favor, he only tried to do that because of the disregard WJC had for american law. You can spin it anyway you like, but don't condemn the GOP and ignore the Democrats.

:Broncos:

[sirhcyennek81]

He lied. In the spring before the invasion, anyone paying attention had to know saddam was no near term danger. The authorization of force was predicated on the possibility of saddam having smallpox or a nuke. Blix and el-Bahradi discovered that. Force to enforce inspections was fine. But the war was about nationbuilding. If it wasn't about nationbuilding we wouldn't still ****ing be in that camel **** desert.

If you are one of the 25% who still don't think shrub lied, then you are partisan and beyond reason, and I'll ignore you from now on.

Personally, I think the Libby thing is a joke. He broke the law. Commutting the sentence? I don't care. The jury members said afterward they thought cheney was the guy who should have been on trial, and I don't think there's any doubt that cheney and rove cooked up the outing of plame to discredit Wilson who was hitting them where it hurt, ie lies about the nukes. Once the insurgency started, the administration realized they'd committed a huge cluster**** and were going down the ****ter of history because nation building was not going to pay for itself and Americans were going to die by the hundreds (and thousands), and they panicked and struck out at all their critics, including hagel ... who was the first politician who wouldn't back down from Rove. Rove became ineffective once the critics stopped running from his personal attacks. But it was only possible to survive the attacks once it became impossible to avoid the fact that bushii lied. The story is bushii's lies. Not really Scooter.

As to why Armitrage wasn't prosecuted ... he didn't break the law. He told Fitzgerald, and more importantly the WH right after he spoke to Saffire. He assumed Saffire already knew, and didn't realize he was revealing anythign possibly secret. But, you appear to misunderstand. The Scooter thing wasn't about Sapphire's story. It was about Judith Miller and the Wash Post. Rove was the source for those stories. That's what Scooter lied about.


Sandy Berger stole classified documents from the national archives and destroyed them, and got caught doing that. Why isnt he in prison? Did he even have a trial? You mean to tell me because Libby forgot where he heard a name he should go away for 5 years, while Berger walked out with sensitive material that would have embarassed the clintons and exposed their ineptitude in regard to islamic terror and got nothing?

:Broncos:

[Orange_Beard]

Trying to defend this guy is just plane silly. Your ego is getting in the way of you seeing the truth.
This Bush guy and his admin are scumbags. Just because other people in the world also happen to be scumbags do not make Bush ok.

[Rigs11]

If I wanted incompetent, I'd vote for Jimmy Carter. If I wanted a fear mongering idiot, I'd vote for Al Gore (global warming).

And yes, I am proud. Thanks for asking. 8')

Dear confused,

The country wants its brains back.

[TailgateNut]

If I wanted incompetent, I'd vote for Jimmy Carter. If I wanted a fear mongering idiot, I'd vote for Al Gore (global warming).

And yes, I am proud. Thanks for asking. 8')


...and if you wanted both in one package you'ld vote Bush!

[Rigs11]

Name for me one "lie" of President Bush...

Reminder: An error or a mistake is different than a lie... (Getting all the questions on a test wrong gets you a failing grade. Cheating on a test gets you expelled.)


One more thing... If outing Valerie Plame was a crime why didn't Fitzgerald bring any charges against Armitage and why isn't anybody who says they are concerned about this supposed breach of security upset about that???

"If someone committed a crime, they will no longer work in my administration," Mr. Bush said in response to a question, after declaring, "I don't know all the facts; I want to know all the facts."

there you go.

[bendog]

Rigs, well there's that. Clinton's lies got no one killed, and it's coolaid to think he launched missles over monica (on her, I'll grant). As he said, "at least I tried to kill bin laden." I'm no WJC (or Hill) fan, btw. But, it's just disengenuous to try and deflect from bushii trumping up a war for nationbuilding (and oil) and getting the army shot to ****. I couldn't care less if Scooter goes to jail or dies or writes another dirty book, but if you think he's gonna pay that fine, you need to google his defense fund and see all the people who have given him money.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

One more thing... If outing Valerie Plame was a crime why didn't Fitzgerald bring any charges against Armitage and why isn't anybody who says they are concerned about this supposed breach of security upset about that???

:rofl:

"If" it was a crime?

You gotta be shi*ttin' me.

The CIA itself asked for the investigaton.

Are you trying to claim that the agency doesn't know who its own covert agents are?

[Bronco Bob]

Sandy Berger stole classified documents from the national archives and destroyed them, and got caught doing that. Why isnt he in prison? Did he even have a trial? You mean to tell me because Libby forgot where he heard a name he should go away for 5 years, while Berger walked out with sensitive material that would have embarassed the clintons and exposed their ineptitude in regard to islamic terror and got nothing?

:Broncos:

Correction:
Sandy Berger stole COPIES OF classified documents from the national archives and destroyed the COPIES.
He's not in prison and didn't go to trial because he struck a deal with the
prosecutor and was given community service as a punishment. Happens
all the time.
And Clinton was already out of office by this time so I can't see why you
are bringing up Clinton. Other than that is the usual tactic of the Bushies,
that when Bush does something wrong, the Bushies try to deflect it
by claiming Clinton did it too.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Quotes

"Is there anyone - anyone who actually believes that Bush plucked Libby from the iron jaws of jail for any other reason than, well...to make sure he keeps his lying mouth shut on the encyclopedia of felonies and crimes committed by Bush and Cheney?"

- Jeffrey Feldman

http://jeffrey-feldman.typepad.com/frameshop/2007/07/frameshop-look-.html

[gunns]

Quotes

"Is there anyone - anyone who actually believes that Bush plucked Libby from the iron jaws of jail for any other reason than, well...to make sure he keeps his lying mouth shut on the encyclopedia of felonies and crimes committed by Bush and Cheney?"

- Jeffrey Feldman

http://jeffrey-feldman.typepad.com/frameshop/2007/07/frameshop-look-.html

Yes, unfortunately there are, some who actually post on this board.....and vote. The country is worse off because of the last 7 years......and these people. I wonder sometimes if they are really that narrow minded or if the shame of admitting they voted for Bush is too much. I pray for the latter. Funny thing is a lot of them now start their posts with "I didn't vote for him, but". That gives me hope it is the latter.

[RocBronc]

"If someone committed a crime, they will no longer work in my administration," Mr. Bush said in response to a question, after declaring, "I don't know all the facts; I want to know all the facts."

there you go.

Libby didn't commit a crime before the trial... He did commit one (according to a jury) during the trial. Last time I checked he isn't working for the administration anymore.

[RocBronc]

Quotes

"Is there anyone - anyone who actually believes that Bush plucked Libby from the iron jaws of jail for any other reason than, well...to make sure he keeps his lying mouth shut on the encyclopedia of felonies and crimes committed by Bush and Cheney?"

- Jeffrey Feldman

http://jeffrey-feldman.typepad.com/frameshop/2007/07/frameshop-look-.html

If there is such an "encyclopedia" why didn't the federal prosecuter bring any charges against Bush and Cheney? Also, if there's such an encyclopedia, shutting up one person isn't going to help this administration and to date there isn't any other serious legal probes going on against this administration.

Hey but don't worry about proof... Just make accusations

[RocBronc]

:rofl:

"If" it was a crime?

You gotta be shi*ttin' me.

The CIA itself asked for the investigaton.

Are you trying to claim that the agency doesn't know who its own covert agents are?

I don't know... If it's so obvious that it was a crime to "leak" Plame's name to the media Why isn't Armitage being charged with any crime???

[baja]

LEONARD PITTS JR. THE MIAMI HERALD
Things that make our nation great

July 4, 2007

Is America great?

We were on a road outside Freetown, Sierra Leone, en route to the tiny village of Yoyema when Saido Kamara asked me that. The drive to Yoyema, they told me, was about 75 miles. Getting there would take us half the day. Sierra Leone has few highways worthy of the name; just craters separated at intervals by a poorly maintained road. It also has crushing poverty, epidemic corruption and many amputees maimed in a civil war that ended only a few years ago.

Is America great?

I've written before about the question my 22-year-old translator asked when I visited West Africa back in 2004. I resurrect the question now because it seems an apt one for a troubled nation that today marks the 231st summer of its existence.

For all our prayers of peace, we are a nation at war this Independence Day. Our military is fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq, of course, but that's not what I mean – or at least, not all that I mean. We are also at war with ourselves, with the very idea and ideal of the United States of America.

We are fighting about immigration, a necessary conversation about securing our borders that nevertheless sinks often into mud holes of xenophobia and racism. We are fighting about diversity, and the Southern Poverty Law Center warns that the number of hate groups in this country has risen 40 percent since 2000. We are fighting about the abridgement of civil liberties, the conduct of war, the idea that torture should be a tool of interrogation.

We are fighting about identity, about who we are and who we are willing to be.

Is America great?

I told him yes, of course. Hedged it with disclaimers so he would not get too rosy an impression. But I told him yes.

Not that he needed my affirmation. The beatific smile on his face suggested he had already made up his mind beyond my ability to change or subtract. That smile bespoke a conviction: Hope lives in the United States. In so many places, hope lies strangled or stillborn, abandoned or forgotten. But hope has a home in America.

Lately, I have been hearing more and more a term I like: “American exceptionalism,” as in the abiding conviction that this is a nation set apart, a nation unique among all the nations of the world.

And it seems to me it is not the people who make America great, but America that has made the people great. Meaning that we are blessed to have been shaped by revolutionary ideals. Equality before the law. The freedom of speech. The freedom of assembly. The freedom from unreasonable search and seizure. The inalienable right to pursue one's own happiness.

Is America great?

Not always, no. And when we are not great, it has usually been because the people have been unable or unwilling or scared to be as large as the nation's ideals. History tells us it has happened too often: with the Alien and Sedition Acts of 1798, with slavery, with government censorship of periodicals and songs during World War I, with the internment of Americans of Japanese heritage during World War II, with segregation, with McCarthyism, with government surveillance of civil rights workers and anti-war activists in the 1960s.

One can only wonder what history will someday say about this era where torture is defended, the rule of law is flouted, civil liberties are abridged, hate groups are rising, people are frightened and the very idea of American exceptionalism, that there are some risks you take, some things you don't do, some challenges you just have to meet, because this is after all, America, seems frayed and worn and spent.

And you might say, well, who cares? It's just an ideal. Can ideals save this country?

Actually, ideals are the only things that ever have.

[baja]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NN-eGOtBGbg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xozYFUIvHQM&mode=related&search=

[TailgateNut]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NN-eGOtBGbg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xozYFUIvHQM&mode=related&search=


We can only hope! I for one, will pressure my reps to sign on to impeachment proceedings. I am sick of Bush and Cheney rewriting the laws of this country to fit their needs and desires. They must be removed from office. One way, or another. I do not care which method is used!

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

If there is such an "encyclopedia" why didn't the federal prosecuter bring any charges against Bush and Cheney?

By your logic, Tony Soprano was a boy scout.


....and to date there isn't any other serious legal probes going on against this administration.

Apparently news travels slowly to your neck of the woods...


Bush and Cheney Subpoenaed

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19461815/

The Senate Judiciary Committee subpoenaed the White House and Vice President Dick Cheney's office Wednesday for documents relating to President Bush's warrant-free eavesdropping program.

Also named in subpoenas signed by committee Chairman Patrick Leahy, D-Vt., were the Justice Department and the National Security Council.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I don't know... If it's so obvious that it was a crime to "leak" Plame's name to the media Why isn't Armitage being charged with any crime???

So, let me get this straight:

According to your logic, if a person commits a crime but isn't charged with that crime for whatever reason, then no crime was committed?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Richard Armitage leaked her name... She wasn't an undercover agent. Where's the damage?


:bs:

The CIA itself asked for the investigation of the leak.

CIA SAYS WILSON WAS UNDERCOVER: “But within the C.I.A., the exposure of Ms. Plame is now considered an even greater instance of treachery. Ms. Plame, a specialist in nonconventional weapons who worked overseas, had ‘nonofficial cover,’ and was what in C.I.A. parlance is called a Noc, the most difficult kind of false identity for the agency to create.” [New York Times, 10/5/03]

http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F70C16F939580C768CDDA90994DB4044 82





That right-wing myth – insisting that she wasn’t “covert” – was exploded at a March 16 hearing of the House Oversight Committee when Chairman Henry Waxman read a statement approved by CIA Director Michael Hayden referring to Plame’s former status as “covert,” “undercover” and “classified.”

Hayden didn’t want to divulge details about Plame’s sensitive work but did confirm that she had served overseas. “Ms. Wilson worked on the most sensitive and highly secretive matters handled by the CIA,” Waxman’s statement said, adding that her work dealt with “prevention of development and use of WMD against the United States.”

http://consortiumnews.com/2007/032207.html

[Spider]

Hilarious! the problem is , the right Busted on Clinton , and they thought they had a real good guy in Bush , took the high road , now they are learning Bush is twice the Scumbag Clinton was or will ever be , they( the Republicans) have lost all footing and will literally Grasp at anything to Justify wasting their vote ........

[Garcia Bronco]

I wouldn't consider either CLinton or Bush a scumbag. there is a scumbag in the WH....really...he's more of a dick.

[Spider]

I wouldn't consider either CLinton or Bush a scumbag. there is a scumbag in the WH....really...he's more of a dick.

Bush is a scumbag ........

[TailgateNut]

I wouldn't consider either CLinton or Bush a scumbag. there is a scumbag in the WH....really...he's more of a dick.


.....then, what do you consider Bush to be?

[Garcia Bronco]

Bush is a scumbag ........

The President is fundamentally a good man. While we all disagree with some of his policies, he's still a good man.

Dick on the other hand...was out drinking and shot a man in the face and went into hiding for 24 hours.

[TailgateNut]

The President is fundamentally a good man. While we all disagree with some of his policies, he's still a good man.

Dick on the other hand...was out drinking and shot a man in the face and went into hiding for 24 hours.


IMO, the only way Bush could redeem any credibility, would be to force Cheney to resign. If not, he is an accessory to the crime syndicate and should be treated as one.

Nothing short of resignations and/or impeachment is acceptable!

[Spider]

The President is fundamentally a good man. While we all disagree with some of his policies, he's still a good man.

Dick on the other hand...was out drinking and shot a man in the face and went into hiding for 24 hours.

Bush isnt a good man ,he couldnt even serve his full term in the Air National guard .....I talk to alot of old time oil men here in Wyoming , they all say the same thing , this isnt the Cheney they knew , they all say power went to his head ......

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Hilarious! the problem is , the right Busted on Clinton , and they thought they had a real good guy in Bush , took the high road , now they are learning Bush is twice the Scumbag Clinton was or will ever be , they( the Republicans) have lost all footing and will literally Grasp at anything to Justify wasting their vote ........

Yep. :yep:

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

The President is fundamentally a good man.

Hilarious!

Yeah - lying a nation into a war is the epitome of goodness.

[baja]

Hilarious!

Yeah - lying a nation into a war is the epitome of goodness.

Lets not forget the retarded people he condoned having executed while governor of Texas.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Lets not forget the retarded people he condoned having executed while governor of Texas.

...and that woman (what was her name?) whose pleas for clemency he mocked.

[baja]

Bush was following his christian heart in pardoning Libby.

After all he has a history of compassion for people that make a mistake.

http://www.ccadp.org/serialpresident.htm

[Spider]

...and that woman (what was her name?) whose pleas for clemency he mocked.

Karla Faye Tucker .........Bush never should have mocked her , but I dont think I would have stopped her execution

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

And how "good" is it to go AWOL from a cushy ANG unit your daddy pulled strings to get you into so you wouldn't have to go to Vietnam?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Our last democratically elected president weighs in on the Libby sleaze play:

"This (Libby pardon) is consistent with their philosophy. They believe they should be able to do what they want to do and that the law is a minor obstacle. It was wrong to out that CIA agent, and it's wrong to cover it up and wrong that no one was fired from the White House for doing it."

- Bill Clinton

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070704/OPINION01/707040435/-1/RSS22

[Cito Pelon]

The funny thing is, Scooter Libby was Marc Rich's lawyer:

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLITICS/03/02/clinton.library/

"(CNN) -- Vice President Dick Cheney's chief of staff testified Thursday he believes prosecutors of billionaire financier Marc Rich "misconstrued the facts and the law" when they went after Rich on tax evasion charges.

The testimony from Lewis "Scooter" Libby, who represented Rich dating back to 1985 but stopped working for him in the spring of 2000, came during a contentious, hours-long House committee hearing into former President Bill Clinton's eleventh-hour pardons. . . . . . . . . . . . ."

Are these a bunch of inbred backscratchers, or what?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

The funny thing is, Scooter Libby was Marc Rich's lawyer:

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLITICS/03/02/clinton.library/

"(CNN) -- Vice President Dick Cheney's chief of staff testified Thursday he believes prosecutors of billionaire financier Marc Rich "misconstrued the facts and the law" when they went after Rich on tax evasion charges.

The testimony from Lewis "Scooter" Libby, who represented Rich dating back to 1985 but stopped working for him in the spring of 2000, came during a contentious, hours-long House committee hearing into former President Bill Clinton's eleventh-hour pardons. . . . . . . . . . . . ."

Are these a bunch of inbred backscratchers, or what?

Yep.

When this fact initially surfaced, the republican "outrage" re: Clinton's pardon of Rich suddenly went dead silent.

Go figure, eh?

[sirhcyennek81]

Our last democratically elected president weighs in on the Libby sleaze play:

"This (Libby pardon) is consistent with their philosophy. They believe they should be able to do what they want to do and that the law is a minor obstacle. It was wrong to out that CIA agent, and it's wrong to cover it up and wrong that no one was fired from the White House for doing it."

- Bill Clinton

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070704/OPINION01/707040435/-1/RSS22


This from a man who challenged the definition of "is" to avoid prosecution...are you kidding? That is what you come up with? Clinton had no problem sicking the IRS on people who opposed his administration, but he is outraged because someone forgets when he heard a name. That is what libby got convicted for, forgetting a date. Half of clinton's pardons were either related to him or kept their mouth shut when he was under investigation and went to jail for him.

:Broncos:

[Garcia Bronco]

Bush isnt a good man ,he couldnt even serve his full term in the Air National guard .....I talk to alot of old time oil men here in Wyoming , they all say the same thing , this isnt the Cheney they knew , they all say power went to his head ......

He's not that kid anymore, but you are right in that regard.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

This from a man who challenged the definition of "is" to avoid prosecution...are you kidding? That is what you come up with?

You have it backwards again.

In a civil deposition, the onus to provide such definitions is on the prosecution.

You are essintially arguing that Clinton should have done more to help the prosecution with its case against him.

Clinton had no problem sicking the IRS on people who opposed his administration

If there was any truth to this allegation, and if any crime or wrongdoing had been committed, then why would the repugs have to settle for a minor sex scandal?


That is what libby got convicted for, forgetting a date.

Libby was convicted for perjury and for obstructing justice in an investigation into high crimes committed by someone in the Bush administration.

Let's cut the sh*t and call this what it is: A move by Bush to keep Libby from singing.

Half of clinton's pardons were either related to him or kept their mouth shut when he was under investigation and went to jail for him.


Newsflash: The Clintons were exonerated in the Whitewater "scandal" (which was nothing but another trumped-up charge and another dry hole in a long GOP fishing expedition.)

[W*GS]

You'll never get LABF to admit to any Clinton wrongdoing. He was perfect.

[Rigs11]

You'll never get LABF to admit to any Clinton wrongdoing. He was perfect.

He's not the president anymore. Move on..

[W*GS]

He's not the president anymore. Move on..

As if Clinton's legacy ended when Bush took office...

We're still paying for Clinton's fackups.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

You'll never get LABF to admit to any Clinton wrongdoing. He was perfect.

You'll never get W*GS to accept the fact that Clinton was acquitted.

It's as though W*GS, like everyone else on the far right, is permanently stuck in the bargaining stage: "please, Lord, give us just one more chance to get Clinton...!"

Thus we have W*GS' tireless crusade to keep us focused on Clinton's wiener and not on Dubya's record.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

GOP Senators Who Voted For Clinton Impeachment Dead Silent On Libby

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e164/bobgeiger/infrastructure/Hypocrites_r_Us_2.jpg

Senator Sam Brownback (R-KS) was aghast. He was indignant as hell about how having a high public official involved in something like perjury and obstruction of justice can damage the very foundation on which our nation was built -- and he had the harsh words to show for it.

"By his words and deeds he chose to place himself above the law. By his words and deeds he has undermined the rule of law in America to the great harm of this nation," the Kansas Republican said. "By his own words and deeds, he has undermined the truth-finding function of the judiciary, at great harm to that branch of our government. By his words and deeds, he had done great harm to the notions of honesty and integrity that form the underpinnings of this great republic."

And here's the Brownback kicker: "We have lost many things over the past few months: trust in public officials, respect for the rule of law, confidence in the truth of the White House's public statements. But perhaps the most tragic loss has been the steady erosion of our societal standards."

That's Brownback in his closed-door impeachment statement on President Bill Clinton, that was read into the Congressional Record on February 12, 1999.

You didn’t get all excited thinking he was commenting on that Scooter Libby thing, did you?

I can understand if you did. After all, Libby was convicted of those same charges and sentenced within federal guidelines to a 30-month prison sentence, only to have his friend George W. Bush decide on Monday that anything over, well, zero days in jail was "excessive" when it comes to a White House crony.

But then again, Brownback is hardly alone in the hypocritical silence being shown by the very same Republican Senators who in 1999 voted guilty on both the perjury and obstruction of justice charges against Clinton. The vote took place on that February 12, with the Senate acquitting Clinton of both articles of impeachment -- the perjury charge got 45 guilty votes while the obstruction-of-justice article resulted in a 50-50 split.

Of the 25 Republican Senators still in the Senate and who voted that day to convict Clinton on both articles of impeachment, not one of them has issued a public statement on the Libby sentence commutation in the three days since it occurred.

Not one.

There's not even a statement of support for Bush's lawless decision -- except from Fred Thompson who, while no longer in the Senate, has his sights set on convincing people that he's fit to be the next seedy Republican to occupy the White House.

All of this struck me as rather strange, so I thought I would go back and look at what some of them had to say about the rule of law, integrity and all of that stuff when it involved a Democrat and not one of their own.

And you're not going to believe this: What seems to be OK with them now, wasn't acceptable back in 1999.

Here's Wayne Allard (R-CO) on President Clinton:

"The Constitution is what preserves the rule of law, and guarantees that we remain a nation of laws, not of men.

"I hold the President to a higher standard because he is the chief law enforcement official of the nation. If he is above the law, then we have a double standard; one for the powerful, and one for the rest.

"The sworn oath is central not only to our Constitution, but also to the administration of justice. Our legal system would not function without it."

And John McCain (R-AZ) seems to think that swearing to tell the truth is a pretty darned important thing to abide by:

"All of my life, I have been instructed never to swear an oath to my country in vain. In my former profession, those who violated their sworn oath were punished severely and considered outcasts from our society. I do not hold the President to the same standard that I hold military officers to. I hold him to a higher standard."

Kay Bailey Hutchison (R-TX) gives a moving statement about how we should hope that history looks back kindly at how we observed the rule of law:

"I was reminded as well, however, that the laws of our Country are applicable to us all, including the President, and they must be obeyed. The concept of equal justice under law and the importance of absolute truth in legal proceedings is the foundation of our justice system in the courts.

"A hundred years from now, when history looks back to this moment, we can hope for a conclusion that our Constitution has been applied fairly and survives, that we have come to principled judgments about matters of national importance, and that the rule of law in American has been sustained."

And George Voinovich (R-OH) made a good case for impeachment no matter the circumstances -- are we listening Speaker Pelosi and Majority Leader Reid? -- when he said "I sincerely believe that this country can survive the removal of a popular president who has forfeited public trust. But, our country cannot survive the abandonment of trust itself."

Imagine how well we could survive the removal of a president who's about as popular as Ann Coulter at a Democratic National Committee mixer.

So given all of that and the equally strident statements made in 1999 by so many of their colleagues, it's odd that there's not one similarly scathing statement about George W. Bush deciding to effectively pardon a convicted criminal just because he's a loyal Bushie -- oh, and also to keep him from coming forward with the truth about the outing of covert CIA operative Valerie Plame.

It could be that the Senate is in recess and that all of their press secretaries are vacationing in Nepal and simply can't get to their laptops. No, it can't be that, because they seem to be finding time to comment on other issues that, perhaps, they consider more pressing. Kit Bond (R-MO) has released three statements since Monday but they have titles like "Bond Attends New National Guard Facility Ribbon-Cutting" and "Bond: Good Vision is Fundamental to Learning." Judd Gregg (R-NH) is all atwitter this week over his support for "Granite State Ocean And Fisheries Research" and Dick Lugar (R-IN) is incredibly excited about the "…first E-85 ethanol pump in Washington, D.C."

But maybe it's just possible that all of these Republican Senators are a bunch of cynical, hypocritical cowards who simply don’t have the guts to speak with what little conscience they have on this issue.

I think I'll go with that one.

Update: Wow, a lot of you are really curious about the 25 Republican Senators (who are still in the Senate) who were so harsh on President Clinton in 1999, only to turn a blind eye to the Libby commutation.

Here they are:

http://bobgeiger.blogspot.com/2007/07/25-gop-senators-who-voted-guilty-twice.html

http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/8530

[W*GS]

You'll never get W*GS to accept the fact that Clinton was acquitted.

The whole impeachment was a joke - there were many other things Clinton did that were far worse for which he escaped prosecution.

It's as though W*GS, like everyone else on the far right, is permanently stuck in the bargaining stage: "please, Lord, give us just one more chance to get Clinton...!"

I'm not "far right". You, however, are far Left. Very very far Left.

Which is why your unending defenses of Clinton are so very odd.

Thus we have W*GS' tireless crusade to keep us focused on Clinton's wiener and not on Dubya's record.

I haven't mentioned anything about Clinton's wiener. You're always the one who brings it up. Why are you so obsessed with it?

[Crushaholic]

Hilarious! the problem is , the right Busted on Clinton , and they thought they had a real good guy in Bush , took the high road , now they are learning Bush is twice the Scumbag Clinton was or will ever be , they( the Republicans) have lost all footing and will literally Grasp at anything to Justify wasting their vote ........

Politicians are politicians. You can't honestly believe that Al Gore or John Kerry wouldn't do anything underhanded. People in power tend to abuse their power at some point. That's why all presidential pardons suck. However, the Bush election WAS good for one thing. A good deal of liberal Supreme Court Justices were replaced by people I'm more comfortable with...:)

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Waiting For Fitz

Where's the Paris Hilton judge when we really need him? Remember? When LA's soft-headed sheriff sprung the developmentally retarded heiress the judge who sentenced her to a month in the slammer hit the roof, called everyone into his court, and sent little miss weepy back to a cell.

The sheriff tried to justify his decision to commute Ms. Hilton's sentence to home arrest by noting that he felt the original sentence was too severe. The judge disagreed, as did normal people everywhere.

Yesterday Mr. Law-in-order, George W Bush, commuted Scooter Libby's 30 month sentence, for the same stated reason -- too severe. (This from a guy who, when governor of Texas, felt that executing retarded murderers was just fine.)

Of course I understand that this the judge can't reinstate Libby's sentence, because the Prez is like the Pope in such matters, infallible and un-reversible.

But there's still one person who can remedy this outrage - prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald. During closing arguments in the Libby perjury case Fitzgerald noted that Libby's lies and evasions had "left a cloud over the office of the Vice President." Okay. Well, now is the perfect time to either dispel that cloud or let lightening strike where it will.

How? As simple as this:

1. Impanel a new federal grand jury.
2. Grant Libby full immunity, meaning he could not take the Fifth, and if he tried he can be jailed for contempt - just as reporter Judy Miller was for trying to protect her source - Scooter Libby.
3. This time call Dick Cheney and put him under oath.

Simple as that. What crime is being investigated? No piddling perjury this time. No sir. This time Fitzgerald should be investigating is conspiracy to obstruct justice. It's just a suspicion. But that's what grand juries do for a living - investigate suspicion that a crime or crimes have been committed.

So, let us list the circumstantial evidence that might lead Fitzgerald to be suspicious that Bush's commutation of Libby's prison sentence was the culmination of a conspiracy to obstruct justice -- that the fix was in for Libby from day he was charged: "Keep your mouth shut and you'll be taken care of."

1. We know that Dick Cheney was at the center of administration efforts to discredit former US ambassador, Joe Wilson after Wilson blew the whistle on the administration's uranium from Niger fraud.
2. We know that Libby met with Cheney the day before he started leaking like a rusty bucket to Judy Miller and other select lap dogs in the media.
3. We know Libby lied like a rug when he testified before the grand jury, refusing to implicate the vice president, or any other administration officials in what was clearly a concerted, pedal to the metal effort to discredit Wilson by outing his CIA operative wife.)We know that administration friends circled the financial wagons around Libby, paying the millions required to pay his legal team, and raising money to pay his $250,000 court fine.
4. We know that through all that, Libby has remained as silent as the Sphinx.
5. We know that the same day a Republican appointed appeals court panel refused to stay Libby's prison sentence during his appeals, the president commuted that sentence.

If that series of events had happened, not within the Bush administration, but within the John Gotti crime family, you gotta know the feds would be hauling associates before a grand jury -- like tomorrow.

So? Hello Mr. Fitzgerald. We;re waiting to see some "nation of laws, not men," action out of you.

http://www.newsforreal.com/

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

People in power tend to abuse their power at some point. That's why all presidential pardons suck.

"All" pardons?

Are you really trying to argue that pardons are never deserved?

BTW, this Libby thing isn't just any pardon (commutation) - it is itself an act of obstruction of justice.

[Spider]

Politicians are politicians. You can't honestly believe that Al Gore or John Kerry wouldn't do anything underhanded. People in power tend to abuse their power at some point. That's why all presidential pardons suck. However, the Bush election WAS good for one thing. A good deal of liberal Supreme Court Justices were replaced by people I'm more comfortable with...:)

LOL dont even go there , when Bush was elected , the right was prancing around , Integrity , Honesty , etc ...........we finally got someone that says what he means ROFL! . you can try to white wash it all you want , but the fact is Bush went scumbag , far worse then Clinton ever did ........ This wasnt about Politicians , this was about the Idiots on the right taking the high road Hilarious!

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

LOL dont even go there , when Bush was elected , the right was prancing around , Integrity , Honesty , etc ...........we finally got someone that says what he means ROFL! . you can try to white wash it all you want , but the fact is Bush went scumbag , far worse then Clinton ever did ........ This wasnt about Politicians , this was about the Idiots on the right taking the high road Hilarious!

Very well put. :~ohyah!: ^5

[Crushaholic]

"All" pardons?

Are you really trying to argue that pardons are never deserved?

BTW, this Libby thing isn't just any pardon (commutation) - it is itself an act of obstruction of justice.

I meant to say that presidential pardons are wrong no matter the party. You're right in that I should never say "all". However, the majority of pardons were for people who were/are friends with the sitting president or otherwise have high connections. And yes, I know that Bush didn't officially grant Scooter a pardon...yet...

[Bronco Bob]

I meant to say that presidential pardons are wrong no matter the party. You're right in that I should never say "all". However, the majority of pardons were for people who were/are friends with the sitting president or otherwise have high connections. And yes, I know that Bush didn't officially grant Scooter a pardon...yet...

But the majority weren't people covering up for a criminal act within
their own administration. Out of all the people Clinton pardoned, how
many could have led to him being impeached it he hadn't commuted
their sentence?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

But the majority weren't people covering up for a criminal act within
their own administration.

Bingo.

This is the important distinction that seems to be lost on the right-wingers and BushCo apologists.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Libby pardon fits W's world

You weren't surprised were you? You shouldn't have been. Bush's decision to toss out Libby's sentence was consistent with this administration's approach to blowing Valerie Wilson's CIA cover in the rush to invade Iraq.

What a perfect way for a politician who will never again face the voters to celebrate Independence Day.

Rule of law? Not this crowd. What's a little perjury and obstruction of justice among neocon friends?

Giving Karl Rove the Medal of Freedom may be just around the corner.

On Sept. 30, 2003, Bush said that if there was a leaker in his administration, "I want to know who it is. And if the person has violated the law, the person will be taken care of."

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/editorial/hines/4942110.html

http://www.bartcop.com/libby-paris-jailz.jpg