Girl 16, Marries 40 year old Track coach.

[24champ]

How the hell can the Parents sign those consent forms? They should be jailed.


Although anguished, her weary parents gave in.

"Signing those consent forms was the hardest thing I did in my whole life, but we had to move on, it was going to kill us all," Dennis said.

http://articles.news.aol.com/news/object.adp?frame=article&type=photogalleries&id=14874

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=3305652&page=1&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312

[DBruleU]

Yeah, I saw this story earlier this week. Their parents are nuts. They said they reluctantly singed the consent form? WTH?

[-Slap-]

I would have not so reluctantly hired two guys to break several of his bones.

[dark_hawk]

I would have not so reluctantly hired two guys to break several of his bones.

I'm with the there, only I was thinking 3 or 4 guys.

[TheDave]

Those parents are pathetic... as as for hiring some people to help re-educate the "coach". As a father of a 4 year old girl, i think i would like to take care of this matter myself.

[Los Broncos]

What the hell is this world coming to? Wacky parents, some people should never have kids.

[elsid13]

WTF - Sorry that is BS and the state should step in and press charges

[24champ]

I would have not so reluctantly hired two guys to break several of his bones.

Hey you're in Vegas, don't you know a couple hit men?

[BroncoBuff]

I think you guys are overreacting. As recently as 1990, 16 was the age of consent in many states, and a mere 75 and more years ago, people as young as 13 would marry quite often in the U.S.

I would be FAR more concerned if it was just a sexual relationship ... THOSE guys should be tortured slowly. But this guy is apparently seriously commited to her - he quit his job, etc. Let's face it, the coverage of this story is way out of whack with its gravity - people are interested because it's titillating. And the parents' laments only made the marriage seem more okay to me ... apparently the girl is quite mature. My only big objection is, why didnt they wait 18 months? Nobody bats an eye when an 18 year-old marries even a 60 year-old (if he's rich anyway).

I recall 40 year old Joe Piscipo having eyes for his 16 year-old babysitter. When she turned 18, he divorced his wife and married her. The two went on Howard Stern all the time in the 90s, and insisted (mostly unconvincingly) that nothing happened before she was 18. Ten years later, and they seem happy and well adjusted.



One more thing: These two look a lot alike! There is probably a strong attraction based on that. Sociologists have studied physical similarities and attraction, and found powerful bonding. Separated siblings and family-members in the same towns are quite often powerfully attracted to each other, unaware of the connection. I recall a couple that was engaged until one found out the other was born from his Dad's sperm-bank donation. (See John Sayles' masterpiece "Lone Star.")

[BroncoBuff]

It's a silly thing to say, but: I'll bet they're doing well 10 years from now.

[DBruleU]

It's a silly thing to say, but: I'll bet they're doing well 10 years from now.

Maybe so...but it's still weird, and if I ever have a daughter...she is definitely not pulling this crap. I'll send a few men to take care of any 40 year old trying to court her.

[Los Broncos]

I mean whats next, older men are going to marry 16 year old boys?

[DBruleU]

I mean whats next, older men are going to marry 16 year old boys?

Yup, someone will try and legitimize that as well.

[Garcia Bronco]

I think you guys are overreacting. As recently as 1990, 16 was the age of consent in many states, and a mere 75 and more years ago, people as young as 13 would marry quite often in the U.S.

I would be FAR more concerned if it was just a sexual relationship ... THOSE guys should be tortured slowly. But this guy is apparently seriously commited to her - he quit his job, etc. Let's face it, the coverage of this story is way out of whack with its gravity - people are interested because it's titillating. And the parents' laments only made the marriage seem more okay to me ... apparently the girl is quite mature. My only big objection is, why didnt they wait 18 months? Nobody bats an eye when an 18 year-old marries even a 60 year-old (if he's rich anyway).

I recall 40 year old Joe Piscipo having eyes for his 16 year-old babysitter. When she turned 18, he divorced his wife and married her. The two went on Howard Stern all the time in the 90s, and insisted (mostly unconvincingly) that nothing happened before she was 18. Ten years later, and they seem happy and well adjusted.



One more thing: These two look a lot alike! There is probably a strong attraction based on that. Sociologists have studied physical similarities and attraction, and found powerful bonding. Separated siblings and family-members in the same towns are quite often powerfully attracted to each other, unaware of the connection. I recall a couple that was engaged until one found out the other was born from his Dad's sperm-bank donation. (See John Sayles' masterpiece "Lone Star.")

And let that get in the way of person outrage? I don't think so. :)

[Dr. Broncenstein]

The parents caved. Don't sign away your parental rights to a pedophile. Just don't sign the goddamn papers. If she pitches a fit and hates you now... just remember that's what 16 year-olds do. When she's 26 she would have thanked them for not allowing her life to be ruined.

[SoCalBronco]

I mean whats next, older men are going to marry 16 year old boys?

[Insert obvious Bob joke here]

;D

[Los Broncos]

[Insert obvious Bob joke here]

;D

I prefer not to joke about things like that, we are talking about kids here.

[TheDave]

I think you guys are overreacting. As recently as 1990, 16 was the age of consent in many states, and a mere 75 and more years ago, people as young as 13 would marry quite often in the U.S.

I would be FAR more concerned if it was just a sexual relationship ... THOSE guys should be tortured slowly. But this guy is apparently seriously commited to her - he quit his job, etc. Let's face it, the coverage of this story is way out of whack with its gravity - people are interested because it's titillating. And the parents' laments only made the marriage seem more okay to me ... apparently the girl is quite mature. My only big objection is, why didnt they wait 18 months? Nobody bats an eye when an 18 year-old marries even a 60 year-old (if he's rich anyway).

I recall 40 year old Joe Piscipo having eyes for his 16 year-old babysitter. When she turned 18, he divorced his wife and married her. The two went on Howard Stern all the time in the 90s, and insisted (mostly unconvincingly) that nothing happened before she was 18. Ten years later, and they seem happy and well adjusted.



One more thing: These two look a lot alike! There is probably a strong attraction based on that. Sociologists have studied physical similarities and attraction, and found powerful bonding. Separated siblings and family-members in the same towns are quite often powerfully attracted to each other, unaware of the connection. I recall a couple that was engaged until one found out the other was born from his Dad's sperm-bank donation. (See John Sayles' masterpiece "Lone Star.")


Being a teacher and a parent i couldn't think of anything more disturbing than courting and dating one of my 16 year old students. This goes against everything i believe in as a teacher, mentor, and coach. IMO this guy is nothing but a pedophile and her parents just signed the permission slip.

[-Slap-]

The guy is utterly pathetic. A child that age is an open book to an adult.

BroncoBuff, if some slimy douchebag like Piscopo or Woody Allen chooses to exploit a position of authority or celebrity to satisfy their own desires than that's their problem. It certainly doesn't make that behavior normal or acceptable.

[Garcia Bronco]

Regardless....it's between the woman and the man. It they think they're right for each other..then live and let live.

[smalltowngrll]

I guess I'd like to know how many of those on this thread have children above the age of 16? If I recall, most on here have youngen's.

Not that I'm agreeing with this, but I find it interesting how those who have children under the age of 10 think they know how they will react when their child is 15, 16, or 17. Until you've been there, you just don't know. Say you'll do this or that all you want...but, it's not always the case. At 16 they truly have a mind all their own. You can take away all of their rights, you can do whatever you like...but, unfortunately, time out doesn't work when they can walk out the door. Unfortunately, the world out there will support them in whatever they choose even if you don't. So, being a parent of a teen changes a bit.

Honestly, I would not have signed away on this and would have told my daughter to wait until she is 18.

[BroncoBuff]

I don't like the position I'm arguing from in this discussion, and I definitely have no quarrel with anybody's feelings on the topic - in fact, I understand the outrage and would feel equally or moreso homicidal were it my daughter.

However - ABC news makes a big deal of this merely to TITILLATE!

You want proof? Okay. Until 1990, many states had age of consent laws of 15 and even 14. Today - right now - in all of Canada, anyone 14 years old is free to consent to sex with anyone. Even today, in most states, INCLUDING North Carolina where that girl was from I think, the age of consent is just 16:
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/3580/1consentkw3.jpg

(The right columns are Man/Man sex, Woman/Woman sex)
http://www.coolnurse.com/consent.htm



There are several more issues here:
1. This particular guy is a teacher, and there are laws in many states banning teacher-student contact, but short of intercourse, they are generally misdemeanors that merely get a teacher fired. Hence, he resigned before they marries.
2. Despite the dramatic impression the story gives (and the dramatic reactions here), the 40-year old next door neighbor could've been banging her all along - legally. The story makes it seem like something illegal is going on here, but it's not.
3. If ABC was really concerned, they would give you an address to write your congressman to raise the age of consent. But to do so would make it known that 16 year olds CAN CONSENT ... and then the audience titillation is gone. The TV news business is a business (BTW - I'll bet you anything they teased and promo'ed that story for more total time than the story itself lasted ... "When we come back, a story that will shock and disturb you ..." )
4. The parents object, understandably. But the only question they had to answer was MARRIAGE permission, nothing more. Consent to marry, paradoxically, has a higher minimum age than sex.
5. I would be much more disturbed if the girl had poor grades, few friends, and smoked pot.

Again, I don't like the position I seem to be standing in making these points, but THESE ARE THE LAWS TODAY! I know something about both criminal law and TV news, so I guess I see it differently. If you guys want to start a petition, that might be a damn good idea. In fact, send me some blanks and I'll fill em up with signatures to make 18 the age of consent everywhere in the world!!!

Ther's a real world out there ... second-degree murderers get out in five years sometimes, and 40 year old men have legal sex with 16 year old girls sometimes too. If you really hate it, e-mail your congressperson.

[BroncoBuff]

I'll send a few men to take care of any 40 year old trying to court her.

If you mean to scare him, I'm on board all the way.

[enjolras]

One of the most happily married couples I know was a girl who married her 7th grade math teacher.

They didn't start dating until she was 18 (theres a 16 year age gap), but stuff like this can work. I hope that both of them are really happy.

[Beantown Bronco]

The parents named the girl Windy for pete's sake.....if that isn't a big enough red flag, I don't know what is. :peace:


They deserve whatever punishment she wants to dish out to them....

[Arkansas Bronco]

This is why I am so happy to have 2 boys. Is it right? Who can really call it. This was going to go down sooner or later anyways cause as all of you guys know when we were teens and got locked on something we did it with or without parent approval. Im sure my mom never wanted me to pick up my first cig, beer, joint, ect. but when want it then there is not much to stop it.

[Garcia Bronco]

This is why I am so happy to have 2 boys. Is it right? Who can really call it. This was going to go down sooner or later anyways cause as all of you guys know when we were teens and got locked on something we did it with or without parent approval. Im sure my mom never wanted me to pick up my first cig, beer, joint, ect. but when want it then there is not much to stop it.

and that's why the parents signed off on it...ultimately there is nothing they can do about it.

[Smiling Assassin27]

this girl's parents did her a HUGE disservice.

[TheDave]

I can't believe people here are excusing away a 38 year old coach/teacher pursueing a 14 year old freshman...WOW

For all you people that are cool with this, how young does the kid need to be before it's a problem? 12,10,8?

[JCMElway]

It's a silly thing to say, but: I'll bet they're doing well 10 years from now.

You're a brave man, BB.

[Garcia Bronco]

I can't believe people here are excusing away a 38 year old coach/teacher persuing a 14 year old student/athlete...WOW

For all you people that are cool with this, how young does the kid need to be before it's a problem? 12,10,8?

That may be..but if the legal age of consent is what it is..and the young woman wants to be married to him...what right does any one else have to say no or tell them what to do? So while I might not do it myself...I have no problem with those two people living their lives that way.

[TheDave]

That may be..but if the legal age of consent is what it is..and the young woman wants to be married to him...what right does any one else have to say no or tell them what to do? So while I might not do it myself...I have no problem with those two people living their lives that way.

She started seeing him and god knows what else at 14... When do you consider this sick monkey pedophile.

Trust me, i've worked around a lot of 14 year olds and you have to be a seriously demented **** to find a freshman sexually attractive.

[Garcia Bronco]

She started seeing him and god knows what else at 14... When do you consider this sick monkey pedophile. Trust me, i've worked around a lot of 14 year olds and you have to be a seriously demented **** to find a freshman sexually attractive.

It depends. Some folks mature faster than others. But really...people have been getting married at these ages for hundreds of years. I agree with BB...I bet they'll still be together 10 years from now. Bottom line...people need to mind their own business.

[24champ]

She started seeing him and god knows what else at 14... When do you consider this sick monkey pedophile.

Trust me, i've worked around a lot of 14 year olds and you have to be a seriously demented **** to find a freshman sexually attractive.

Agreed, I mean even when I was a freshman I didn't consider freshman girls attractive.

[TheDave]

It depends. Some folks mature faster than others. But really...people have been getting married at these ages for hundreds of years. I agree with BB...I bet they'll still be together 10 years from now. Bottom line...people need to mind their own business.

You're right we should just mind our own business and let the pedophiles run free.

[Arkansas Bronco]

She started seeing him and god knows what else at 14... When do you consider this sick monkey pedophile.

Trust me, i've worked around a lot of 14 year olds and you have to be a seriously demented **** to find a freshman sexually attractive.

I agree and defiantly dont approve of it but all I was stating in my prior post is that it was going to happen one way or another and realy nothing to stop it.

[TheDave]

I agree and defiantly dont approve of it but all I was stating in my prior post is that it was going to happen one way or another and realy nothing to stop it.

nothing to stop it???

When this problem hit full steam he was 38 or 39 and she was 14 or 15... Jail would of stopped it just fine.

[TailgateNut]

I guess I'd like to know how many of those on this thread have children above the age of 16? If I recall, most on here have youngen's.

Not that I'm agreeing with this, but I find it interesting how those who have children under the age of 10 think they know how they will react when their child is 15, 16, or 17. Until you've been there, you just don't know. Say you'll do this or that all you want...but, it's not always the case. At 16 they truly have a mind all their own. You can take away all of their rights, you can do whatever you like...but, unfortunately, time out doesn't work when they can walk out the door. Unfortunately, the world out there will support them in whatever they choose even if you don't. So, being a parent of a teen changes a bit.

Honestly, I would not have signed away on this and would have told my daughter to wait until she is 18.


I have children older than 16 and one who is younger and I do know they have a mind of their own, but a dead man can't marry a juvenile. Case closed!

[Garcia Bronco]

You're right we should just mind our own business and let the pedophiles run free.

The only way this would actually be considered pedophilia is if she was prepubescent or peripubescent.

[KipCorrington25]

Let's face it, the coverage of this story is way out of whack with its gravity - people are interested because it's titillating.

Huh, huh, you said titillating.

http://artfiles.art.com/images/-/Beavis-Butthead-Poster-C10220517.jpeg

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I guess I'd like to know how many of those on this thread have children above the age of 16? If I recall, most on here have youngen's.

Not that I'm agreeing with this, but I find it interesting how those who have children under the age of 10 think they know how they will react when their child is 15, 16, or 17. Until you've been there, you just don't know. Say you'll do this or that all you want...but, it's not always the case. At 16 they truly have a mind all their own. You can take away all of their rights, you can do whatever you like...but, unfortunately, time out doesn't work when they can walk out the door. Unfortunately, the world out there will support them in whatever they choose even if you don't. So, being a parent of a teen changes a bit.

Honestly, I would not have signed away on this and would have told my daughter to wait until she is 18.Having been there I know exactly what you're talking about. Wait till all of you parents of your little girls get there and see what kind of world you are in then Ha!

[TheDave]

The only way this would actually be considered pedophilia is if she was prepubescent or peripubescent.

Quit making **** up to try and excuse this sicko...

The International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems defines pedophilia as "a sexual preference for children, boys or girls or both, usually of prepubertal or early pubertal age.

[TailgateNut]

It depends. Some folks mature faster than others. But really...people have been getting married at these ages for hundreds of years. I agree with BB...I bet they'll still be together 10 years from now. Bottom line...people need to mind their own business.


You'll change your position on this subject once you have your own children.
I know, without a doubt, if any adult were to even think about my dauhgter becoming his wife before she's 18 he better hope he has great medical coverage, because I will hunt him down and inflict serious damage. And, Yes, I'll be glad to do a bit of time behind bars. I'll just claim temporary insanity and any witnesses to the crime would testify to that fact.

[24champ]

The only way this would actually be considered pedophilia is if she was prepubescent or peripubescent.

You can't be serious...

[24champ]

You'll change your position on this subject once you have your own children.
I know, without a doubt, if any adult were to even think about my dauhgter becoming his wife before she's 18 he better hope he has great medical coverage, because I will hunt him down and inflict serious damage. And, Yes, I'll be glad to do a bit of time behind bars. I'll just claim temporary insanity and any witnesses to the crime would testify to that fact.

I'll definitely testify that your a nut.Hilarious!

(Just kiddin around)

[TailgateNut]

Quit making **** up to try and excuse this sicko...


Wasn't it Garcia who asked us about him dating someone who was a decade or two younger than he???

No wonder he supports this creep!

[Garcia Bronco]

Quit making **** up to try and excuse this sicko...

Sorry if that upsets you...but it's not pedophilla.

[Garcia Bronco]

You can't be serious...

That's the definition of pedophilla.

[Garcia Bronco]

Wasn't it Garcia who asked us about him dating someone who was a decade or two younger than he???

No wonder he supports this creep!

She was 18 and I was 31. Perfectly acceptable and totally fine. She's a nice girl and we still talk, but I moved to Colorado.

[Garcia Bronco]

Another amusing notion is that a person somehow becomes an adult at the age of 18 from a mental perspective. That can happen at 16...or it can happen at 26. If these two people feel they should be together, then who amI to tell them otherwise?

[youcandoit1687]

I guess I'd like to know how many of those on this thread have children above the age of 16? If I recall, most on here have youngen's.

Not that I'm agreeing with this, but I find it interesting how those who have children under the age of 10 think they know how they will react when their child is 15, 16, or 17. Until you've been there, you just don't know. Say you'll do this or that all you want...but, it's not always the case. At 16 they truly have a mind all their own. You can take away all of their rights, you can do whatever you like...but, unfortunately, time out doesn't work when they can walk out the door. Unfortunately, the world out there will support them in whatever they choose even if you don't. So, being a parent of a teen changes a bit.

Honestly, I would not have signed away on this and would have told my daughter to wait until she is 18.

STG is right, at 16, every kid I know would defy their parents if they were as sure as this girl sounds on something. I know a couple girls who were juniors in high school dating guys out of college. I know another girl that ran away with her now husband before she was even out of HS, the guy was basically a hacker for a living. As for this girl, the parents probably lost her a long time ago if she was talking to a 35+ year old guy since she was a freshman or whatever. They probably just thought that them signing away now might give them leverage in the future. She would have run away with the guy or something anyways.

[TailgateNut]

then who amI to tell them otherwise?

You are obviously not a parent!

I for one really couldn't give a **** if my daughter thought that she was an adult (from a mental perspective) when she's 16. Her 40 year old boyfriend would not age another day, if he lays his hands on her. Nuff said!

[Popps]

If these two people feel they should be together, then who amI to tell them otherwise?

Gosh, what a surprise. Garcia is defending a scumbag. How very different.

[Spider]

The only way this would actually be considered pedophilia is if she was prepubescent or peripubescent.

I got a list of Republicans that think along this line

[TailgateNut]

STG is right, at 16, every kid I know would defy their parents if they were as sure as this girl sounds on something. I know a couple girls who were juniors in high school dating guys out of college. I know another girl that ran away with her now husband before she was even out of HS, the guy was basically a hacker for a living. As for this girl, the parents probably lost her a long time ago if she was talking to a 35+ year old guy since she was a freshman or whatever. They probably just thought that them signing away now might give them leverage in the future. She would have run away with the guy or something anyways.

No, I disagree, at least partially. They do have a mind of their own, even as young as 12-14, but it's a matter of reasoning and communication with you children. And if reasoning doesn't work, then go after the pedophile, but don't sign a consent form. That's f-ing ludicrous!

[24champ]

I don't think the girl is the main problem here, the problem is what the hell is a 40 year old doing with a 16 year old? I don't really care what the girl thinks she knows and doesn't know at 16. I want to know why a 40 year old man is "in love" with a 16 year old? Not only that but they were sending text messages to each other at 2am when the girl was 14. Now come on lets not be naive enough to think they are talking about whatever show is on Nick at nite...It's sick and the fact some of you are not appalled by it is unreal.

[youcandoit1687]

No, I disagree, at least partially. They do have a mind of their own, even as young as 12-14, but it's a matter of reasoning and communication with you children. And if reasoning doesn't work, then go after the pedophile, but don't sign a consent form. That's f-ing ludicrous!

yeah well you eliminate one by sending him to jail, bribing him to move, moving your family, whatever, the girl is just going to find a new guy. Basically, at 14, with that kind of mindset, she was a lost cause.

[Los Broncos]

Would it be ok if a 40 year old coach married a 16 year old boy?

[smalltowngrll]

You are obviously not a parent!

I for one really couldn't give a **** if my daughter thought that she was an adult (from a mental perspective) when she's 16. Her 40 year old boyfriend would not age another day, if he lays his hands on her. Nuff said!

TGN, all due respect on your feelings here. I for one, would WANT with all my heart to do the same thing. But, if your daughter packed up and left without you knowing anything about it, you couldn't find her, you'd probably change your style of parenting just a tad. Every child is different. And for a lot of parents, their children give them very little rebuffing (outside of the typical little arguments). But, there are some teens that are VERY headstrong and grow up faster than we'd like as a parent! Knowing when to let go is probably one of the most difficult things to learn as a parent. And, honestly, you just never WANT to let go. You always WANT to tell them right from wrong. you always WANT to tell them the best way to live their life because that was best for you.

Unfortunately, those individuals have to do theings their way. I realize in this situation you are dealing with a drastic age difference, and my insides cringe just thinking about it if it were my daughter. But, again, parenting styles have to adjust a bit when you are dealing with strong willed and independent teens/young adults who choose to grow up sooner than the "norm" (or sooner than the world says they should).

Again, as a parent, I would NOT have signed away her right to marry. I would simply explain to her that if they wanted to marry now, they would still want to marry when she was 18 and waiting would not harm the relationship any.

[Spider]

Would it be ok if a 40 year old coach married a 16 year old boy?

Nope ....... I found out a 17 year old girl was text messaging my 12 year old son ....didnt take long to put a stop to it .........if he was 16 an she was 21 , I wouldnt have a problem too much

[Los Broncos]

Nope ....... I found out a 17 year old girl was text messaging my 12 year old son ....didnt take long to put a stop to it .........if he was 16 an she was 21 , I wouldnt have a problem too much

So then its not ok for a coach to marry a 16 year old girl?

[Spider]

So then its not ok for a coach to marry a 16 year old girl?

I never said it was ........ if it was my daughter ,there would be no controlling my rage ............

[-Slap-]

Another amusing notion is that a person somehow becomes an adult at the age of 18 from a mental perspective. That can happen at 16...or it can happen at 26.

It will never happen for you, jackass.

[-Slap-]

I apologize for quoting Garcia to anybody who has his stupid ass on ignore.

[Beantown Bronco]

Rumor has it the coach went to Va Tech.

[Los Broncos]

I never said it was ........ if it was my daughter ,there would be no controlling my rage ............

I wasn't accusing you spider. I just wanted to clear something up

[Spider]

I wasn't accusing you spider. I just wanted to clear something up

;D no problem , I didnt think you accused me of anything ...... My oldest daughter used to be a daddys girl ,She used to go on the truck with me alot , but as she got older I put a stop to it , so now she isnt so much a daddys girl , I guess it comes with age , but I have 3 girls , 3 boys ......

[TailgateNut]

TGN, all due respect on your feelings here. I for one, would WANT with all my heart to do the same thing. But, if your daughter packed up and left without you knowing anything about it, you couldn't find her, you'd probably change your style of parenting just a tad. Every child is different. And for a lot of parents, their children give them very little rebuffing (outside of the typical little arguments). But, there are some teens that are VERY headstrong and grow up faster than we'd like as a parent! Knowing when to let go is probably one of the most difficult things to learn as a parent. And, honestly, you just never WANT to let go. You always WANT to tell them right from wrong. you always WANT to tell them the best way to live their life because that was best for you.

Unfortunately, those individuals have to do theings their way. I realize in this situation you are dealing with a drastic age difference, and my insides cringe just thinking about it if it were my daughter. But, again, parenting styles have to adjust a bit when you are dealing with strong willed and independent teens/young adults who choose to grow up sooner than the "norm" (or sooner than the world says they should).

Again, as a parent, I would NOT have signed away her right to marry. I would simply explain to her that if they wanted to marry now, they would still want to marry when she was 18 and waiting would not harm the relationship any.


I've made some very hard (tough love) decisions in my life. Although at first I thought that I had made terrible mistakes, but in the long run, all those decisions helped things turn out positive in the long run. It was painful, and I lost many a nights sleep, but when I look back I do not regret any of those decisions.

I have one more child to raise, and if the need arises, I will once again stand firm and make unpopular decisions. Parenting is not a popularity contest. In fact parenting is at times a thankless "task".

I strive for several things in my life. The most important is a happy and healthy family. I am proud to know that both of my sons not only consider me as their father, but also as their friend.

Nothin' like poker night at dads house!

[TailgateNut]

Rumor has it the coach went to Va Tech.


Ouch!

[TheDave]

That's the definition of pedophilla.

No that's your definition...


The International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems defines pedophilia as "a sexual preference for children, boys or girls or both, usually of prepubertal or early pubertal age.

That makes this guy a pedophile

[TheDave]

Would it be ok if a 40 year old coach married a 16 year old boy?

Not for me but some people on this board seem to be OK with anything as long as they are a "teenager"... so for some the cut-off is 13

[Garcia Bronco]

You are obviously not a parent!

I for one really couldn't give a **** if my daughter thought that she was an adult (from a mental perspective) when she's 16. Her 40 year old boyfriend would not age another day, if he lays his hands on her. Nuff said!

Then you would go to jail and your daugther would probably stop talking to you, and you wouldn't be a tailgate nut anymore. Plus whatever life you would have would have disappeared

[Garcia Bronco]

Gosh, what a surprise. Garcia is defending a scumbag. How very different.

No, just disagreeing with the outrage of people that is unfounded.

[Garcia Bronco]

No, I disagree, at least partially. They do have a mind of their own, even as young as 12-14, but it's a matter of reasoning and communication with you children. And if reasoning doesn't work, then go after the pedophile, but don't sign a consent form. That's f-ing ludicrous!

But there isn't a pedophile in this situation.

[Rock Chalk]

You'll change your position on this subject once you have your own children.
I know, without a doubt, if any adult were to even think about my dauhgter becoming his wife before she's 18 he better hope he has great medical coverage, because I will hunt him down and inflict serious damage. And, Yes, I'll be glad to do a bit of time behind bars. I'll just claim temporary insanity and any witnesses to the crime would testify to that fact.

Unless your witness is a bonafide psychiatrist you will be put in jail for a very long time. Temporary insanity is one of those things that is very difficult to prove and most people are now so immune to this bull**** excuse as in your case it would be just that, a bull**** excuse because you would know very wellwhat you were doing and have already admitted to accepting those consequences.

If you killed him, I hope you would get the death penalty.

I do not condone what this guy has done, nor do I condone what the parents have done, but I do not condone vigilateism any more than I condone this. The man, whether you agree with it or not, has not proven to have violated any laws.

[Garcia Bronco]

I don't think the girl is the main problem here, the problem is what the hell is a 40 year old doing with a 16 year old? I don't really care what the girl thinks she knows and doesn't know at 16. I want to know why a 40 year old man is "in love" with a 16 year old? Not only that but they were sending text messages to each other at 2am when the girl was 14. Now come on lets not be naive enough to think they are talking about whatever show is on Nick at nite...It's sick and the fact some of you are not appalled by it is unreal.

Why is it sick?

[Garcia Bronco]

It will never happen for you, jackass.

[QUOTE=-Slap-;1626882]It will never happen for you, jackass.

You need to calm down and quit insulting people like that. We have kept from kicking you out of here several times for it, but the patience wears thin.

[TheDave]

Why is it sick?

So if 38 going after a 14 year old is good with you... then when does it get to be "sick"?

Would it be ok if she was 12... what about 10. Hell, studies show that some girls hit puberty at 8. Is 8 old enough for you?

[Garcia Bronco]

So if 38 going after a 14 year old is good with you... then when does it get to be "sick"?

Would it be ok if she was 12... what about 10. Hell, studies show that some girls hit puberty at 8. Is 8 old enough for you?

But she wasn't 12...We are talking about 40 and 16. Not 14 and 38. Not 36 and 12 or whatever other ratio you can come up with. If the two people feel like they need to be married a the ages they are...then it's really up to them. That's all I am saying...no more and no less.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

But there isn't a pedophile in this situation.You're wrong by most state laws. This guy is definitely attracted to children.

[TheDave]

But she wasn't 12...We are talking about 40 and 16. Not 14 and 38. Not 36 and 12 or whatever other ratio you can come up with. If the two people feel like they need to be married a the ages they are...then it's really up to them. That's all I am saying...no more and no less.

They began their relationship when she was 14 (guess you did not read the article)... the marriage proposal came when she was 16.

[TailgateNut]

But there isn't a pedophile in this situation.


So what is it then? He just wants to train/coach her? Unbelieveable that another adult can condone this type of behavior!

[Garcia Bronco]

You're wrong by most state laws. This guy is definitely attracted to children.

Perhas...but not from a DSM-IV perspective...which actually talks about the disease.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

They began their relationship when she was 14 (guess you did not read the article)... the marriage proposal came when she was 16.This guy would be in the big house for life in AZ.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Perhas...but not from a DSM-IV perspective...which actually talks about the disease.Are you kidding? He started after her when she was 14.

[Garcia Bronco]

They began their relationship when she was 14 (guess you did not read the article)... the marriage proposal came when she was 16.

Even at 14 she is not prepubescent or peripubescent.

[TheDave]

Even at 14 she is not prepubescent or peripubescent.

Neither are some 8 year olds... guess that's ok then

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Even at 14 she is not prepubescent or peripubescent.So what (not that you would know)? How dense are you going to continue to play on this?

[Garcia Bronco]

Neither are some 8 year olds... guess that's ok then

Yes, but an 8 year-old is before prepubescence, so that argument doesn't really make a whole bunch of sense.

[Garcia Bronco]

So what (not that you would know)? How dense are you going to continue to play on this?

Because it would seem many of you don't actually know what a pedophile is from a mental disease perspective.

[TailgateNut]

Unless your witness is a bonafide psychiatrist you will be put in jail for a very long time. Temporary insanity is one of those things that is very difficult to prove and most people are now so immune to this bull**** excuse as in your case it would be just that, a bull**** excuse because you would know very wellwhat you were doing and have already admitted to accepting those consequences.

If you killed him, I hope you would get the death penalty.

I do not condone what this guy has done, nor do I condone what the parents have done, but I do not condone vigilateism any more than I condone this. The man, whether you agree with it or not, has not proven to have violated any laws.


Has not proven to have violated any laws! Are you serious? Do you have any children. Would it be ok with you if a 40 YO man started a serious relationship with one of your CHILDREN at age 14? ...and you would just stand back and watch? WTF is happening in this country. Bunch of spineless enablers!

You know what law he has broken: The law of normal adult behavior! The law of trust! Coach/ child relationship "laws".

This MF is sick and needs to be removed frrom society! Period!


.....Re: your death penalty comment. What happens, happens. I intend to protect my family to the end, and I will insure that if some creep decides to take advantage of my daughter I will put him out of his misery!

[TheDave]

Yes, but an 8 year-old is before prepubescence, so that argument doesn't really make a whole bunch of sense.

Again you are choosing not to read... some kids hit puberty starting as youn as 8

You know what this is a disgusting conversation... Have fun rationalizing this all you want. Just do us a favor and do not choose a career that places you in contact with high school kids.

[TailgateNut]

Because it would seem many of you don't actually know what a pedophile is from a mental disease perspective.


I know from a parents perspective that "I REALLY DON'T GIVE A ****" about his mental problem!
Put him in a rubber room with an underage blow up doll as far as I'm concerned. But get him off the street!
Your constant defense of his actions is really starting to raise some questions in my mind!

[Garcia Bronco]

I know from a parents perspective that "I REALLY DON'T GIVE A ****" about his mental problem!
Put him in a rubber room with an underage blow up doll as far as I'm concerned. But get him off the street!
Your constant defense of his actions is really starting to raise some questions in my mind!

I realize you wear your emotions on your sleeve, but pedophilla is a mental disorder. It has little to do with the age of the older subject, and more to do with the relative age of the child as defined in DSM-IV. Technically a 16 year old can be a pedophile if the relationship is with someone 5 years younger. Typically for the actual disorder of pedophilla the child has to be 13 or younger.

[Garcia Bronco]

Again you are choosing not to read... some kids hit puberty starting as youn as 8

You know what this is a disgusting conversation... Have fun rationalizing this all you want. Just do us a favor and do not choose a career that places you in contact with high school kids.

You are the one that is not reading. Generally 13 or younger...which would includ 8 years of age. Check the DSM-IV...it's been peer reviewed so you shouldn't have an issue accepting it's findings.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Because it would seem many of you don't actually know what a pedophile is from a mental disease perspective. You think since you came across some site that attempts to explain pedophiles acting out as not their fault that you can define and defend them by the age of their victim?

That's pretty damn sick logic!

[TheDave]

You are the one that is not reading. Generally 13 or younger...which would includ 8 years of age. Check the DSM-IV...it's been peer reviewed so you shouldn't have an issue accepting it's findings.

Gotcha... so if she was 13 it is a problem, but since she was 14 all is good.

[Garcia Bronco]

You think since you came across some site that attempts to explain pedophiles acting out as not their fault that you can define and defend them by the age of their victim?

That's pretty damn sick logic!

It's how the DSM-IV defines it. The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) is a handbook for mental health professionals that lists different categories of mental disorder and the criteria for diagnosing them, according to the publishing organization the American Psychiatric Association. And of course the IV stands for the 4th edition.

[Garcia Bronco]

Gotcha... so if she was 13 it is a problem, but since she was 14 all is good.

Generally speaking from an age and mental disorder perspective. But after you get past this portion of it...you really have to fall back on what STG was posting about in her last post. Once they hit this age...you really can't lay down the law like when they were much younger, because they truth is they can just about walk out the door.

[TailgateNut]

Hebephile: This is a word whose meaning is changing. In the past, it referred to an adult who is sexually attracted to post-pubescent person under the age of 18. Currently, it is evolving to mean a person who sexually molests post-pubescent persons under the age of 18. See pedophile.

Regardless: In my book of Laws, he is one sick individual who needs to be either incarcerated or put out of his misery!

[Bronco_Beerslug]

It's how the DSM-IV defines it. The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) is a handbook for mental health professionals that lists different categories of mental disorder and the criteria for diagnosing them, according to the publishing organization the American Psychiatric Association. And of course the IV stands for the 4th edition.I know what it is (http://allpsych.com/disorders/dsm.html) and how you found it, so what? Like I said, just because you found some site that tries and defend pedophiles because it may be a mental problem doesn't excuse it or you trying to defend them based on the age of a child.

[Garcia Bronco]

Hebephile: This is a word whose meaning is changing. In the past, it referred to an adult who is sexually attracted to post-pubescent person under the age of 18. Currently, it is evolving to mean a person who sexually molests post-pubescent persons under the age of 18. See pedophile.

Regardless: In my book of Laws, he is one sick individual who needs to be either incarcerated or put out of his misery!

That may be, but he's broken no laws. And then it goes back to...how happy are they and what right do we have to stand in the way?

[-Slap-]

[QUOTE=-Slap-;1626882]

You need to calm down and quit insulting people like that. We have kept from kicking you out of here several times for it, but the patience wears thin.

Kiss my ass, troll.

[TailgateNut]

It's how the DSM-IV defines it. The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) is a handbook for mental health professionals that lists different categories of mental disorder and the criteria for diagnosing them, according to the publishing organization the American Psychiatric Association. And of course the IV stands for the 4th edition.

Well then put him in the Looney Bin!

[Garcia Bronco]

I know what it is (http://allpsych.com/disorders/dsm.html) and how you found it, so what? Like I said, just because you found some site that tries and defend pedophiles because it may be a mental problem doesn't excuse it or you trying to defend them based on the age of a child.

I found it because I had to read it to graduate. What I have posted is right out of the manual not a website.

[TailgateNut]

I know what it is (http://allpsych.com/disorders/dsm.html) and how you found it, so what? Like I said, just because you found some site that tries and defend pedophiles because it may be a mental problem doesn't excuse it or you trying to defend them based on the age of a child.


It's a proven fact that "birds of a feather, flock together"!

[Garcia Bronco]

It's a proven fact that "birds of a feather, flock together"!

grow up

[CBF1]

Just another reason I am glad that I do not have any children.

I have a strange question for some of you. What is the difference between a girl that is 17 years, 364 days old vs a girl that is 18 years and zero days old?

Does a girl become a woman overnight? Does something magical happen in her sleep that night?

I Know that if I were a father of a girl, I would OBJECT to her having sex or getting married to ANYONE, whether he was 16 or 60 years old when she was a minor.

[TheDave]

Just another reason I am glad that I do not have any children.

I have a strange question for some of you. What is the difference between a girl that is 17 years, 364 days old vs a girl that is 18 years and zero days old?

Does a girl become a woman overnight? Does something magical happen in her sleep that night?

I Know that if I were a father of a girl, I would OBJECT to her having sex or getting married to ANYONE, whether he was 16 or 60 years old when she was a minor.

a teacher/coach dating a freshman is against every moral and ethical code i know...

and yes there is something seriously wrong with that... ;)

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I found it because I had to read it to graduate. What I have posted is right out of the manual not a website.So I take it you didn't graduate? I mean you know that it states that "disorder is characterized by either intense sexually arousing fantasies, urges, or behaviors involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child typically age 13 or younger'' not specifically 13 or younger as you stated or having to be prepubescent?

[TailgateNut]

grow up


Grow up. I'm just wondering (other than the fact that you have no children) why on earth you go out of your way to make excuses for this POS. Answer my question? This Asshole has been pursuing this young girl since she was 14 YO, and you want to quote Psychiatrist excuses for his behavior.

You either condone or not condone this type of behavior. Pretty damn simple!

[CBF1]

a teacher/coach dating a freshman is against every moral and ethical code i know...

and yes there is something seriously wrong with that... ;)

So you would be okay with your daughter banging or getting married to a guy that is 16-25 if he is NOT a teacher? My point is why is age the issue?

Dad's, raise your children right and these stories would not happen.

[TailgateNut]

Just another reason I am glad that I do not have any children.

I have a strange question for some of you. What is the difference between a girl that is 17 years, 364 days old vs a girl that is 18 years and zero days old?

Does a girl become a woman overnight? Does something magical happen in her sleep that night?

I Know that if I were a father of a girl, I would OBJECT to her having sex or getting married to ANYONE, whether he was 16 or 60 years old when she was a minor.


The difference is one day! Don't make me hunt you down! ...and stay the hell away from my daughter you pervert!:wiggle:

[Garcia Bronco]

Grow up. I'm just wondering (other than the fact that you have no children) why on earth you go out of your way to make excuses for this POS. Answer my question? This a-hole has been pursuing this young girl since she was 14 YO, and you want to quote Psychiatrist excuses for his behavior.

You either condone or not condone this type of behavior. Pretty damn simple!

All I condone is letting these people live their lives and their right to make the choice. The DSM-IV portion is to show people what is clinicaly defined as pedophilla, since other were throwing around the term.

[TailgateNut]

Dad's, raise your children right and these stories would not happen.


...or hunt the ****er down and castrate him! He wont have any more mental issues!

[TailgateNut]

All I condone is letting these people live their lives and their right to make the choice. The DSM-IV portion is to show people what is clinicaly defined as pedophilla, since other were throwing around the term.
The underlying problem is that they do not just live their lives, they affect others with their twisted realities!

[Garcia Bronco]

The underlying problem is that they do not just live their lives, they affect others with their twisted realities!

But they are just two people. Honestly...there really isn't anything anyone can do to keep them apart if they really want to be together.

[TailgateNut]

a teacher/coach dating a freshman is against every moral and ethical code i know...

and yes there is something seriously wrong with that... ;)


:notworthy

Regardless how you put it, GB will still try to justify this perverts actions!

[TailgateNut]

But they are just two people. Honestly...there really isn't anything anyone can do to keep them apart if they really want to be together.


By using the term they, I was referring to the pervert, not the girl! ...and yes you can keep them apart by incarcerating the pervert!

[Garcia Bronco]

:notworthy

Regardless how you put it, GB will still try to justify this perverts actions!

Actually I agree with TheDave that he has violated ethics by dating a student.

[Garcia Bronco]

By using the term they, I was referring to the pervert, not the girl! ...and yes you can keep them apart by incarcerating the pervert!

She could just wait...and then what has society ultimately done?

[TheDave]

So you would be okay with your daughter banging or getting married to a guy that is 16-25 if he is NOT a teacher? My point is why is age the issue?

Dad's, raise your children right and these stories would not happen.

No... Let me give a little historical perspective here. My sister is 12 years younger than me. When she was 14 and a freshman in highschool she met some guy at a party who was 21. Well needless to say, this loser atempted to cultivate a relationship with her. It wasn't too tough for me to end the entire situation. See, there is a major benefit for the rest of us... Guys that need to prey on little girls are easily scarred off (at least this one was). All it took was a sincere, heartfelt explanation of the way things were going to go if he continued down this path. I reminded him that there were plenty of other children for him to prey on, but that this child was off limits. Didn't need to get physical, I just convinced him that i was 100% willing to change the course of my life to protect her.

... and oddly enough my parents backed this course of action and yet my sister, though unhappy with the way this was dealt with, never ran away from home or enven continued this distructive behavior.

[TailgateNut]

No... Let me give a little historical perspective here. My sister is 12 years younger than me. When she was 14 and a freshman in highschool she met some guy at a party who was 21. Well needless to say, this loser atempted to cultivate a relationship with her. It wasn't too tough for me to end the entire situation. See, there is a major benefit for the rest of us... Guys that need to prey on little girls are easily scarred off (at least this one was). All it took was a sincere, heartfelt explanation of the way things were going to go if he continued down this path. I reminded him that there were plenty of other children for him to prey on, but that this child was off limits. Didn't need to get physical, I just convinced him that i was 100% willing to change the course of my life to protect her.



... and oddly enough my parents backed this course of action and yet my sister, though unhappy with the way this was dealt with, never ran away from home or enven continued this distructive behavior.


Sounds like you take the "calm" approach. I wish I would count to ten before reacting sometimes, but if I did, I wouldn't be ME!

[TailgateNut]

She could just wait...and then what has society ultimately done?


Society has protected an underage girl from a predator!

[Garcia Bronco]

Sounds like you take the "calm" approach. I wish I would count to ten before reacting sometimes, but if I did, I wouldn't be ME!

What ever you say Magnum. :)

[Garcia Bronco]

Society has protected an underage girl from a predator!

If there is evidence that he's tried with other girls...then you would have liegit predator IMO.

[TailgateNut]

If there is evidence that he's tried with other girls...then you would have liegit predator IMO.

What worries me is the fact that he was a coach of teenage girls, and eventually started a relationship with a 14 YO. Do you fool yourself into believing that this was his first attempt to start a relationship. And who's to tell what other things he's done while being the coach and how often.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but if you look at traits of pedophiles, he fits the category!

[Garcia Bronco]

What worries me is the fact that he was a coach of teenage girls, and eventually started a relationship with a 14 YO. Do you fool yourself into believing that this was his first attempt to start a relationship. And who's to tell what other things he's done while being the coach and how often.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but if you look at traits of pedophiles, he fits the category!

I don't know if this is his first attempt or not. I am just going off what I do know about this particular situation.

[Los Broncos]

They can be together if they want too, but don't try and tell me that it isn't sick for a 40 year old man to marry a 16 year old.

[Garcia Bronco]

They can be together if they want too, but don't try and tell me that it isn't sick for a 40 year old man to marry a 16 year old.

Personally...I can't imagine exactly what they communicate about...but to each their own.

[BroncoBuff]

She started seeing him and god knows what else at 14... When do you consider this sick monkey pedophile.

Trust me, i've worked around a lot of 14 year olds and you have to be a seriously demented **** to find a freshman sexually attractive.

Well, don't go to Canada then.

A 50-year-old man or woman can legally bang all the 14 year-olds they want to.

[TheDave]

Well, don't go to Canada then.

A 50-year-old man or woman can legally bang all the 14 year-olds they want to.

Not true...

http://www.parl.gc.ca/information/library/PRBpubs/prb993-e.htm


B. Bill C-15 (1)

Amendments to the Criminal Code in 1988 repealed the aforementioned unlawful intercourse and seduction offences. In their place, Bill C-15 created new offences called "sexual interference" and "invitation to sexual touching" that now prohibit adults from engaging in virtually any kind of sexual contact with either boys or girls under the age of 14, irrespective of consent. Introduced at the same time, the offence of "sexual exploitation" also makes it an offence for an adult to have any such contact with boys and girls over 14 but under 18, where a relationship of trust or authority exists between the adult and child.

being a teacher/coach is "a relationship of trust or authority"...

[Spider]

[QUOTE=-Slap-;1626882]

You need to calm down and quit insulting people like that. We have kept from kicking you out of here several times for it, but the patience wears thin.

just my opinion , but this should have been settled in PM's

[BroncoBuff]

They can be together if they want too, but don't try and tell me that it isn't sick for a 40 year old man to marry a 16 year old.

On the 1-10 "sick scale," in light of her being of legal age to consent, I'll give it a 1. What bothers me most is that he appears to maybe have 'groomed her' starting in 9th grade. But because she's mature, and he quits his job to actually marry her a full three years later, it hardly seems worth getting worked up about.

I'm jaded because I spent nine years as a criminal defense attorney in Los Angeles. After a few years, I moved up to the 'major felonies' panel of private attorneys who were referred out Public Defender cases when they were conflicted. Problem is, I hated the violent majors, lots of those animals turned my stomach, and I privately refused to myself to ever defend a homicide I believed to be guilty (or at least never go to trial with one). Well, I started getting major sex cases instead in about 1997, and you guys would be wretching all over your keyboards if you saw some of these. Here's just one: An 11 year-old girl has numerous recurrent UTI (urinary tract infections) from bleeding caused by repeated penetrations from her step-father and a friend of his. The mother, who knew what was going on, decided to cash in. She somehow figured out that UTIs were a (quasi)-symptom of Fibromyalgia. So she takes the kid in to get Social Security disability bnenefits, which they spend to fix up an old car of hers. Finally a doctor got wise, and child protective services were called. By then, it was well over 2 years since the stepfather had shown up on the scene. The UTIs stopped after a month in foster care, but of course there are deeper scars we'll never see.

Since then, and since half-a-dozen other step-father cases, I always wonder when I see a step-daughter. Don't get too suspicious, but it happens a helluva lot.

The mens' side of the Lynwood jail that Paris Hilton is busting out of tomorrow - Century it's called - is where they keep many K-10 and K-12 prisoners - "softs" in LASD lingo. Mostly pedophiles and cops. A freak show of nauseating proportion, the serial pedophiles are seemingly without an nano-liter of testosterone in their system. They're so doughy-soft and limp-wristed and in speech (but not in a gay way), that the mere memory is turning my stomach right now.


Now you can see a bit more why these two don't bother me all that much. WHen he's 64, she'll be 40. That sounds okay to me. Besides, and remember this - the 40-yead old pervert neighbor could have been legally baging her since her the day she turned 16! The only problem here was parents' consent to marry.

[24champ]

Why is it sick?

Are you joking GB? A 40 year old man text messaging a 14 year old girl at 2am isn't sick?

[Spider]

Are you joking GB? A 40 year old man text messaging a 14 year old girl isn't sick?

it is worse then your avatar :wiggle: ........

[BroncoMan4ever]

I don't like the position I'm arguing from in this discussion, and I definitely have no quarrel with anybody's feelings on the topic - in fact, I understand the outrage and would feel equally or moreso homicidal were it my daughter.

However - ABC news makes a big deal of this merely to TITILLATE!

You want proof? Okay. Until 1990, many states had age of consent laws of 15 and even 14. Today - right now - in all of Canada, anyone 14 years old is free to consent to sex with anyone. Even today, in most states, INCLUDING North Carolina where that girl was from I think, the age of consent is just 16:
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/3580/1consentkw3.jpg

(The right columns are Man/Man sex, Woman/Woman sex)
http://www.coolnurse.com/consent.htm



There are several more issues here:
1. This particular guy is a teacher, and there are laws in many states banning teacher-student contact, but short of intercourse, they are generally misdemeanors that merely get a teacher fired. Hence, he resigned before they marries.
2. Despite the dramatic impression the story gives (and the dramatic reactions here), the 40-year old next door neighbor could've been banging her all along - legally. The story makes it seem like something illegal is going on here, but it's not.
3. If ABC was really concerned, they would give you an address to write your congressman to raise the age of consent. But to do so would make it known that 16 year olds CAN CONSENT ... and then the audience titillation is gone. The TV news business is a business (BTW - I'll bet you anything they teased and promo'ed that story for more total time than the story itself lasted ... "When we come back, a story that will shock and disturb you ..." )
4. The parents object, understandably. But the only question they had to answer was MARRIAGE permission, nothing more. Consent to marry, paradoxically, has a higher minimum age than sex.
5. I would be much more disturbed if the girl had poor grades, few friends, and smoked pot.

Again, I don't like the position I seem to be standing in making these points,

i find it surprising that the age of consent in several states was lower for females.

i don't mean that in a sexist way, but considering the fact that dudes are the aggresive sex that actually goes after the woman, shouldn't that be the other way around.

in a world where i would have kids (i am 21 so no kids that i know of yet) i personally wouldn't worry too much if my 16 year old son was laying down wood on an older woman, but i would kill an older guy for going after my 16 year old daughter.

[24champ]

it is worse then your avatar :wiggle: ........

She looks better than your POS truck.

No offense Spider.,;D

[BroncoBuff]

Not true...

http://www.parl.gc.ca/information/library/PRBpubs/prb993-e.htm


B. Bill C-15 (1)

Amendments to the Criminal Code in 1988 repealed the aforementioned unlawful intercourse and seduction offences. In their place, Bill C-15 created new offences called "sexual interference" and "invitation to sexual touching" that now prohibit adults from engaging in virtually any kind of sexual contact with either boys or girls under the age of 14, irrespective of consent. Introduced at the same time, the offence of "sexual exploitation" also makes it an offence for an adult to have any such contact with boys and girls over 14 but under 18, where a relationship of trust or authority exists between the adult and child.

being a teacher/coach is "a relationship of trust or authority"...

Excellent breakdown of the statute, Dave. You are 100% correct.

Yes, the teacher position here was one aspect troubling to me too. But after three years, it seems less likely that it's just a 'taking advantage of' siutuation. If the guy was a true pedophile, he WOULD have a trail by the age of 40. This is not the 1960s anymore where this stuff goes on undetected.

LOOK AT THE PICTURES OF THEM - they look so much alike. They look like father/daughter actually. I'm telling you, that kind of physical similarity has been proven a powerful attractor. Children in the same towns who (unknowingly) have the same father, are very very often drawn to one another (see the John Sayles masterpiece film 'Lone Star'). I'm not saying they're blood-related, but as a corollary, they do like like they're related.

I wish they would have waited, at least until she graduated. I don't understand why they wouldn't wait.

[Los Broncos]

On the 1-10 "sick scale," in light of her being of legal age to consent, I'll give it a 1. What bothers me most is that he appears to maybe have 'groomed her' starting in 9th grade. But because she's mature, and he quits his job to actually marry her a full three years later, it hardly seems worth getting worked up about.

I'm jaded because I spent nine years as a criminal defense attorney in Los Angeles. After a few years, I moved up to the 'major felonies' panel of private attorneys who were referred out Public Defender cases when they were conflicted. Problem is, I hated the violent majors, lots of those animals turned my stomach, and I privately refused to myself to ever defend a homicide I believed to be guilty (or at least never go to trial with one). Well, I started getting major sex cases instead in about 1997, and you guys would be wretching all over your keyboards if you saw some of these. Here's just one: An 11 year-old girl has numerous recurrent UTI (urinary tract infections) from bleeding caused by repeated penetrations from her step-father and a friend of his. The mother, who knew what was going on, decided to cash in. She somehow figured out that UTIs were a (quasi)-symptom of Fibromyalgia. So she takes the kid in to get Social Security disability bnenefits, which they spend to fix up an old car of hers. Finally a doctor got wise, and child protective services were called. By then, it was well over 2 years since the stepfather had shown up on the scene. The UTIs stopped after a month in foster care, but of course there are deeper scars we'll never see.

Since then, and since half-a-dozen other step-father cases, I always wonder when I see a step-daughter. Don't get too suspicious, but it happens a helluva lot.

The mens' side of the Lynwood jail that Paris Hilton is busting out of tomorrow - Century it's called - is where they keep many K-10 and K-12 prisoners - "softs" in LASD lingo. Mostly pedophiles and cops. A freak show of nauseating proportion, the serial pedophiles are seemingly without an nano-liter of testosterone in their system. They're so doughy-soft and limp-wristed and in speech (but not in a gay way), that the mere memory is turning my stomach right now.


Now you can see a bit more why these two don't bother me all that much. WHen he's 64, she'll be 40. That sounds okay to me. Besides, and remember this - the 40-yead old pervert neighbor could have been legally baging her since her the day she turned 16! The only problem here was parents' consent to marry.


I understand where your coming from. I'm sure you've seen a lot worse than this man marrying a young girl.

But all i can do is take a step back and look at this and say to myself is this the right thing to do. Is it right for a much older man and a teacher no less to marry a teenager and the answer is no. I mean, isn't there like a million other women of age that he can marry. Why does it have to be a teenager?

I see where age may play a big part in this. Maybe daddy never loved her and she needs that security and this man sees that. Or he has mental problems.

[Spider]

She looks better than your POS truck.

No offense Spider.,;D

LOL hell I thought that was David Spade ..........and I will drive a pretty truck or a fast truck , as you can see my truck isnt pretty :wiggle:

[BroncoBuff]

OH! I forgot one thing about that case .... after the 11-year-old girl was in foster care, and before the mother was arrested, she had visitation with the daughter. During the visitation, she tried to use a dirty hairbrush on the daughter's private parts to induce a new UTI, so as to lessen the evidenciary impact of the UTI cessation against the step-dad. The foster family reported her, and that's how SHE was arrested.



Now, back to the oh-so-sick newlyweds ...

[BroncoMan4ever]

She looks better than your POS truck.

No offense Spider.,;D

No offense dude but that chick looks like a 5 year old crack head. She is way to damn skinny.
Can you say Anorexia

[Los Broncos]

OH! I forgot one thing about that case .... after the 11-year-old girl was in foster care, and before the mother was arrested, she had visitation with the daughter. During the visitation, she tried to use a dirty hairbrush on the daughter's private parts to induce a new UTI, so as to lessen the evidenciary impact of the UTI cessation against the step-dad. The foster family reported her, and that's how SHE was arrested.



Now, back to the oh-so-sick newlyweds ...

Those people were sick. Can you even live a normal life after all of that happening to you.

[Northman]

You'll change your position on this subject once you have your own children.
I know, without a doubt, if any adult were to even think about my dauhgter becoming his wife before she's 18 he better hope he has great medical coverage, because I will hunt him down and inflict serious damage. And, Yes, I'll be glad to do a bit of time behind bars. I'll just claim temporary insanity and any witnesses to the crime would testify to that fact.


You might want to edit your posts then. This right here could come back to bite you in the ass and then it would go from Temporary Insanity to pre-meditated. :thumbsup:

[Spider]

;D fair enough GB ........I didnt look at it like that

[BroncoBuff]

I don't think so Lynch.


Actually, the more I think about it, I think this track coach is sick.

I understand how irresistable attractors work, but he has a responsibility as her teacher/coach in her favorite class/sport. What he should have done is first taken a transfer to another school, and told her that she should experience a year of high school without him. If they still couldn't stay apart after that year, then set the wedding for a month or two after high school graduation.

Plenty of cooling off time for both ... if you truly love someone, set them free.

[Los Broncos]

I don't think so Lynch.


Actually, the more I think about it, I think this track coach is sick.

I understand how irresistable attractors work, but he has a responsibility as her teacher/coach in her favorite class/sport. What he should have done is first taken a transfer to another school, and told her that she should experience a year of high school without him. If they still couldn't stay apart after that year, then set the wedding for a month or two after high school graduation.

Plenty of cooling off time for both ... if you truly love someone, set them free.

Yeah, wait till after shes of age, then no one would say anything.

[24champ]

No offense dude but that chick looks like a 5 year old crack head. She is way to damn skinny.
Can you say Anorexia

That chick is Beckham's wife, she was at Dodger stadium to hang out. I suppose it wasn't the most attractive pic of her but she was wearing Dodger gear....So I'll be a nice guy and change the avatar.:approve:

[Northman]

Grow up. I'm just wondering (other than the fact that you have no children) why on earth you go out of your way to make excuses for this POS. Answer my question? This a-hole has been pursuing this young girl since she was 14 YO, and you want to quote Psychiatrist excuses for his behavior.

You either condone or not condone this type of behavior. Pretty damn simple!



I have more questions regarding her parents. They evidently have been fine with it from the word go. I find them more at fault than i do the teacher.

[Garcia Bronco]

Are you joking GB? A 40 year old man text messaging a 14 year old girl at 2am isn't sick?

All I can tell you is what I would do...and I wouldn't be sending text messages to a 0-18 year-old female that I wasn't related to.

[Beantown Bronco]

That chick is Beckham's wife, she was at Dodger stadium to hang out. I suppose it wasn't the most attractive pic of her but she was wearing Dodger gear....So I'll be a nice guy and change the avatar.:approve:

Posh has really gone downhill in the last few years IMO....A.M. on the other hand still gets the job done...nice.

[24champ]

Posh has really gone downhill in the last few years IMO....A.M. on the other hand still gets the job done...nice.

Alyssa is pretty knowledgeable about the Dodgers as well, has her own blog on MLB.com

[Jens1893]

Alyssa is pretty knowledgeable about the Dodgers as well, has her own blog on MLB.com

hasnt she pretty much been in bed with half the dodgers team?

[24champ]

hasnt she pretty much been in bed with half the dodgers team?

She dated Brad Penny, thats the only dodger she ever went out with. However she did date Zito, Beckett, and I think the latest was Tom Glavine.

[skpac1001]

I dont have much to add to this thread other then to say that if you care about your daughter's future and your relationship with her, the 2 worst things you could do is sign the consent or do the tough guy act and try to beat up/kill the guy. The tough guy act is almost guarenteed to backfire badly and drive her even more towards him, even if you don't completely destroy your relationship with her by hurting her "true love". Much better, I think, is to make her wait till she is 18, deal with the silent treatment, and hopefully as she gets older his appeal will go away and she will see how pathetic and creepy he is on her own.

[smalltowngrll]

It seems that we've blamed everyone else we can come up with for this girl's decision....except her! Ultimately the choice is hers and she is the only one that will have to live with the choice for the rest of her life. Ultimately she is the ONLY one to take the responsiblity of this choice, whether it turns out good or bad.

[24champ]

It seems that we've blamed everyone else we can come up with for this girl's decision....except her! Ultimately the choice is hers and she is the only one that will have to live with the choice for the rest of her life. Ultimately she is the ONLY one to take the responsiblity of this choice, whether it turns out good or bad.

I disagree, I blame it on the 40 year old pervert that has no business texting or whatever with a 14 year old girl.

[TheDave]

It seems that we've blamed everyone else we can come up with for this girl's decision....except her! Ultimately the choice is hers and she is the only one that will have to live with the choice for the rest of her life. Ultimately she is the ONLY one to take the responsiblity of this choice, whether it turns out good or bad.

we usually don't blame children for there mistakes...espicially when it involves a group of adults that sign off on it.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

It seems that we've blamed everyone else we can come up with for this girl's decision....except her! Ultimately the choice is hers and she is the only one that will have to live with the choice for the rest of her life. Ultimately she is the ONLY one to take the responsiblity of this choice, whether it turns out good or bad.Actually, in this case, since she is still a minor and her parents signed the consent papers, they figure in the "blame" dept. more than anyone else. A 16 year old girl is rarely (probably never) mature enough to make life decisions like this one.

[Garcia Bronco]

It seems that we've blamed everyone else we can come up with for this girl's decision....except her! Ultimately the choice is hers and she is the only one that will have to live with the choice for the rest of her life. Ultimately she is the ONLY one to take the responsiblity of this choice, whether it turns out good or bad.

Absolutely

[12th man]

Actually, in this case, since she is still a minor and her parents signed the consent papers, they figure in the "blame" dept. more than anyone else. A 16 year old girl is rarely (probably never) mature enough to make life decisions like this one.

I couldn't agree more. Most of the blame goes to the "parants" because they signed those papers. Honestly, I did not read a valid excuse from the "parants" for them to give consent. Their excuse was she wouldn't talk to family members or priests for guidence so they just decided to cave in and give consent because her not talking about it was killing them. What a cop out and what a terrible example of paranting. First of all, the 40 year old teacher was noticing the girl since she was fourteen years old. For two years, constant phone calls, e-mails, and text messaging at any time of day or night. God only knows if they had any sex for sure. Now in the span of two years, this creep could have manipulated this girl, especially at the young age of 14 (heck even at 16), to make her think that they are in love, just so he could get his freak on with a young teen, because he's a sick pos pediphile.

Now as a parant, I'm getting a restraining order on the guy to keep him away and do my best to get him out of the teaching profession because he should not be around kids. These "parants" did nothing except give a very lame excuse as to why they gave consent.

[Broncos_OTM]

That may be, but he's broken no laws. And then it goes back to...how happy are they and what right do we have to stand in the way?

I would guess the parents have the right to stand in there way. They signed the paperwork not because they wanted to but because they felt they had to or lose there daughter altogheter. this law that allows minors to become adaults should not be a law where pedophiles the right to wiggle a way around it. sick sad and what a country we live in

[freak6]

Wasn't it Garcia who asked us about him dating someone who was a decade or two younger than he???

No wonder he supports this creep!

lmao

Garcia, you gotta be kidding me.

It's one thing to play devil's advocate, but you gotta be kidding me. You should have stopped after one post.

And banning slap for that?

WKOFBS is that???

Who screwed up and made you a moderator?

Shouldn't you have to pass some kind of a sports knowledge/ ethics test before you become a moderator in this megabit dump of youtube clips and Hixon rants?

[Clockwork Orange]

Garcia Troll strikes again. It's always nice when one of the people entrusted to maintain the board is doing all he can to drag it into the toilet.

[broncocalijohn]

Do you guys realize that GB also backs Steroid use for his love of Bonds? That there shows where he comes from. Is GOnzolays and GB the same poster? Sometimes I wonder.

[broncocalijohn]

lmao

Garcia, you gotta be kidding me.

It's one thing to play devil's advocate, but you gotta be kidding me. You should have stopped after one post.

And banning slap for that?

WKOFBS is that???

Who screwed up and made you a moderator?

Shouldn't you have to pass some kind of a sports knowledge/ ethics test before you become a moderator in this megabit dump of youtube clips and Hixon rants?


You had me until that unnecessary comment. I hope you meant Anti Hixon rants!

[TailgateNut]

It seems that we've blamed everyone else we can come up with for this girl's decision....except her! Ultimately the choice is hers and she is the only one that will have to live with the choice for the rest of her life. Ultimately she is the ONLY one to take the responsiblity of this choice, whether it turns out good or bad.


Sorry, but I can't get myself to blame a 14YO who is slowly convinced by a 38YO pervert to have a relationship. He used his position as a coach, which helped him gain the minors trust to shape her opinions.

He, the parents and the system which allows this type of travesty is at fault.

[TailgateNut]

I couldn't agree more. Most of the blame goes to the "parants" because they signed those papers. Honestly, I did not read a valid excuse from the "parants" for them to give consent. Their excuse was she wouldn't talk to family members or priests for guidence so they just decided to cave in and give consent because her not talking about it was killing them. What a cop out and what a terrible example of paranting. First of all, the 40 year old teacher was noticing the girl since she was fourteen years old. For two years, constant phone calls, e-mails, and text messaging at any time of day or night. God only knows if they had any sex for sure. Now in the span of two years, this creep could have manipulated this girl, especially at the young age of 14 (heck even at 16), to make her think that they are in love, just so he could get his freak on with a young teen, because he's a sick pos pediphile.

Now as a parant, I'm getting a restraining order on the guy to keep him away and do my best to get him out of the teaching profession because he should not be around kids. These "parants" did nothing except give a very lame excuse as to why they gave consent.


Great post! ...especially the option of a restraining order. It would have stopped his pursuit immediately.

[Spider]

Statutory Rape , yes GB he did commit a crime .......Depending on the state .......Colorado goes as high as the age of 17 ,but most states are around the 13-14 years old ...... The Parents could have pushed it , in all states .......

[Spider]

North Carolina

§ 14-27. 2 et seq.


First-degree rape is sexual intercourse with a victim under age 13 when the actor is at least age 12 and at least four years older.

Statutory rape or sexual offense of person age 13, 14, or 15 is intercourse with someone age 13, 14, or 15 when the actor is (1) at least six years older and (2) between four and six years older.


These crimes are felonies subject to the structured sentencing law with minimums and maximums depending on aggravating and mitigating factors and the offender’s prior record

[alkemical]

I'm 28 -and ya know i see some attractive women who are 18-22, i met one who was cool enough to hang out with - but i didn't want to put up with the bar scene again.

[Nuggets4]

I honestly think I'm stupider having read some of the stuff in this thread. And I decided that if I ever have a daughter, I'm building a moat and dungeon.

And buying a dragon.

[Dr. Broncenstein]

This has to be the gayest banning this board has ever seen... OrangemanethenextFinHeaven

[smalltowngrll]

Sorry, but I can't get myself to blame a 14YO who is slowly convinced by a 38YO pervert to have a relationship. He used his position as a coach, which helped him gain the minors trust to shape her opinions.

He, the parents and the system which allows this type of travesty is at fault.

I'm not disagreeing with anything you are saying. I do believe the guy should have dealt with it differently as well as the parents. However, the girl is 16 now...not 14. At what point do children and young adults become responsible for their own decisions? There are SEVERAL choices I made at 16 that I am fully responsible for. I can't blame my parents for not being strict enough or for being too strict, I can't blame the school for not doing their part and I can't blame anyone else because I made the decisions. Yes, the were naive decisions, but they were MY choices.

I do think the parents should have tried a bit more...but, who's to say that they didn't? We don't know what took place behind closed doors between this girl and her parents. We don't know if they did have long talks, if there were rules set up. We don't know. I'm not advocating for this situation. I believe that it should have been dealt with differently. And, as a parent, a restraining order would probably be something I would consider. But, that does no good when a 15 or 16 year old walks out the door and they both disappear, never to be heard of again (or at the least for several years)! As a parent, is that what you would want? The whole situation is just an awful situation.

[Popps]

I honestly think I'm stupider having read some of the stuff in this thread. And I decided that if I ever have a daughter, I'm building a moat and dungeon.

And buying a dragon.

Bingo.

[TailgateNut]

I'm not disagreeing with anything you are saying. I do believe the guy should have dealt with it differently as well as the parents. However, the girl is 16 now...not 14. At what point do children and young adults become responsible for their own decisions? There are SEVERAL choices I made at 16 that I am fully responsible for. I can't blame my parents for not being strict enough or for being too strict, I can't blame the school for not doing their part and I can't blame anyone else because I made the decisions. Yes, the were naive decisions, but they were MY choices.

I do think the parents should have tried a bit more...but, who's to say that they didn't? We don't know what took place behind closed doors between this girl and her parents. We don't know if they did have long talks, if there were rules set up. We don't know. I'm not advocating for this situation. I believe that it should have been dealt with differently. And, as a parent, a restraining order would probably be something I would consider. But, that does no good when a 15 or 16 year old walks out the door and they both disappear, never to be heard of again (or at the least for several years)! As a parent, is that what you would want? The whole situation is just an awful situation.


STG, it's called tough LOVE. You love them, so at times you must make decisions which are tough!

[Garcia Bronco]

Statutory Rape , yes GB he did commit a crime .......Depending on the state .......Colorado goes as high as the age of 17 ,but most states are around the 13-14 years old ...... The Parents could have pushed it , in all states .......

Well...that depends on whether or not the relationship was sexual before the age of consent.

[smalltowngrll]

STG, it's called tough LOVE. You love them, so at times you must make decisions which are tough!

Yeah, I know tough love! Been there, done that. But, honestly, are you willing to say goodbye to your daughter for the next ten years because she is making a choice that you don't support?

[TheDave]

Yeah, I know tough love! Been there, done that. But, honestly, are you willing to say goodbye to your daughter for the next ten years because she is making a choice that you don't support?

Why do you automatically assume she is lost? You are protecting your kid from a pedator.. how can that turn out bad?

[smalltowngrll]

Why do you automatically assume she is lost? You are protecting your kid from a pedator.. how can that turn out bad?

That's not what I was referring to. I was referring to the comment about Tough Love and the teenager who has the ability to walk out the door and disown you because you don't agree with what she chooses. She's 16 and is making the choice herself. Your young adults will at one point or another make choices for themselves that you, as a parent, will not agree with. You talk to them, you train them and give them as much knowledge as you can. There comes a point when you as a parent have to let go. Do you disown them because of that?

If you read my post before this one, you will understand my position on this.

[TheDave]

That's not what I was referring to. I was referring to the comment about Tough Love and the teenager who has the ability to walk out the door and disown you because you don't agree with what she chooses. She's 16 and is making the choice herself. Your young adults will at one point or another make choices for themselves that you, as a parent, will not agree with. You talk to them, you train them and give them as much knowledge as you can. There comes a point when you as a parent have to let go. Do you disown them because of that?

If you read my post before this one, you will understand my position on this.

I've read all your posts here and the feeling i get is "16 year olds can do what they want so why risk losing them for 10 years" you just seem to take an all or nothing approach.

This problem started at 14, at that time there was plenty that could've and should've been done. Is she harder to control at 16... Yes. Still a manageable situation and one that does not have to end with you signing over a permission slip to a predator or losing your child for a decade.

This was handled so poorly by the parents... when this marriage goes bad, and it will. Who do you think the daughter is going to blame?

[Bronco_Beerslug]

That's not what I was referring to. I was referring to the comment about Tough Love and the teenager who has the ability to walk out the door and disown you because you don't agree with what she chooses. She's 16 and is making the choice herself. Your young adults will at one point or another make choices for themselves that you, as a parent, will not agree with. You talk to them, you train them and give them as much knowledge as you can. There comes a point when you as a parent have to let go. Do you disown them because of that?

If you read my post before this one, you will understand my position on this.Well, I've raised two daughters by myself. I can guarantee you that this man would no longer be in my daughter's life once I found out about it. He would have left voluntarily after I met with him and never contacted her again. I could and would never condone this kind of predation by an adult on a child, it wouldn't happen.

[smalltowngrll]

I've read all your posts here and the feeling i get is "16 year olds can do what they want so why risk losing them for 10 years" you just seem to take an all or nothing approach.

This problem started at 14, at that time there was plenty that could've and should've been done. Is she harder to control at 16... Yes. Still a manageable situation and one that does not have to end with you signing over a permission slip to a predator or losing your child for a decade.

This was handled so poorly by the parents... when this marriage goes bad, and it will. Who do you think the daughter is going to blame?

No, on the contrary. I'm not stating an all or nothing approach at all. I've maintained the entire way how I would have handled it. But, we don't know if the parents even knew about this relationship at 14. Maybe they were not aware of it until later? Yes, it's a manageable situation, but there are quite a few pieces of information that we don't have.

All I'm maintaining is that all of the "I'm stronger than he is" attitudes might not always work. Some teens respond well to that strong armed mentality. That's great for them. But, quite a few don't. All I've tried to do here is say that the "one size fits all" type of parenting I'm seeing displayed here by many of the dads don't work accross the board. Every case is different and every child is different. You have to deal with each one in a way that will work for them!

The blame game goes on way too much in our society. We are constantly looking for others to blame for the mistakes and decisions we choose to make ourselves. I'm not saying that this guy shouldn't have been stopped long ago, and it will be something that she will have to work through. But, ultimately the choices we make are only ours to own. How we respond to what others do to us or to what others don't do to us, is ultimately up to us...not someone else. She is 16 and most 16 year olds really do have to face up to their choices.

[Spider]

Well...that depends on whether or not the relationship was sexual before the age of consent.

Pretty Naive , the coach showed pretty poor judgment through out this ordeal ,,hard to believe he didnt have sex with her .........

[TheDave]

No, on the contrary. I'm not stating an all or nothing approach at all. I've maintained the entire way how I would have handled it. But, we don't know if the parents even knew about this relationship at 14. Maybe they were not aware of it until later? Yes, it's a manageable situation, but there are quite a few pieces of information that we don't have.

All I'm maintaining is that all of the "I'm stronger than he is" attitudes might not always work. Some teens respond well to that strong armed mentality. That's great for them. But, quite a few don't. All I've tried to do here is say that the "one size fits all" type of parenting I'm seeing displayed here by many of the dads don't work accross the board. Every case is different and every child is different. You have to deal with each one in a way that will work for them!

The blame game goes on way too much in our society. We are constantly looking for others to blame for the mistakes and decisions we choose to make ourselves. I'm not saying that this guy shouldn't have been stopped long ago, and it will be something that she will have to work through. But, ultimately the choices we make are only ours to own. How we respond to what others do to us or to what others don't do to us, is ultimately up to us...not someone else. She is 16 and most 16 year olds really do have to face up to their choices.

from personal experience, the "strong arm"" tecnique does work on the predators... as for how i deal with the girl, well thank god i married to a great woman. Together we would figure out a way.

I agree with you that the "blame game" is overplayed... but in this case there are 3 adults that should of ended this before it got started. The predator and both parents failled to act in the best interest of the child... and she is a child

[TailgateNut]

That's not what I was referring to. I was referring to the comment about Tough Love and the teenager who has the ability to walk out the door and disown you because you don't agree with what she chooses. She's 16 and is making the choice herself. Your young adults will at one point or another make choices for themselves that you, as a parent, will not agree with. You talk to them, you train them and give them as much knowledge as you can. There comes a point when you as a parent have to let go. Do you disown them because of that?

If you read my post before this one, you will understand my position on this.


What's the difference of her walking out, and me not being able to see her because she's married to a pedophile who will never set foot in my home for weekend BBQ's and holiday gatherings. Either way she lost. But "giving her to a criminal for his enjoymment is not THE RIGHT DECISION.

Either way I loose, but one way I help her from the inevitable pain of realizing the mistake she made as a teenager!

[Garcia Bronco]

Pretty Naive , the coach showed pretty poor judgment through out this ordeal ,,hard to believe he didnt have sex with her .........

Well...we don't know that. We do know that ethically he should not have dated or interacted with a student in that way. My point eariler in this thread for all of those piling on is that this does not meet the definition of pedophilla as defined in the DSM-IV.

[TailgateNut]

Well...we don't know that. We do know that ethically he should not have dated or interacted with a student in that way. My point eariler in this thread for all of those piling on is that this does not meet the definition of pedophilla as defined in the DSM-IV.

Take that DSM-IV and shove it. In my book it's JUST PLAIN WRONG! Tell the phychiatrists I don't agree with their take!

[BroncoMan4ever]

That chick is Beckham's wife, she was at Dodger stadium to hang out. I suppose it wasn't the most attractive pic of her but she was wearing Dodger gear....So I'll be a nice guy and change the avatar.:approve:

Then Beckham needs to upgrade man, i mean come on he signed a soccer contract with Peyton Manning type money, i am sure a GOOD LOOKING woman would take him

[smalltowngrll]

What's the difference of her walking out, and me not being able to see her because she's married to a pedophile who will never set foot in my home for weekend BBQ's and holiday gatherings. Either way she lost. But "giving her to a criminal for his enjoymment is not THE RIGHT DECISION.

Either way I loose, but one way I help her from the inevitable pain of realizing the mistake she made as a teenager!


It seems as though you (and a few others) believe that I'm of the opinion to just sit back and let the guy have at this young girl. That is NOT what I've stated in any of my posts. I do agree that the parents not intervening at 14, if they were aware of it at that age, is not the correct manner in which to handle this. And, I've stated previously that I don't agree with their choice to sign over the rights for her to marry this man. Please don't misconstrue my view of this situation.

[Garcia Bronco]

Take that DSM-IV and shove it. In my book it's JUST PLAIN WRONG! Tell the phychiatrists I don't agree with their take!

It's not a take...it's an observation made for empirical data. Sorry. It may be wrong, but it's not pedophilla

[TailgateNut]

It seems as though you (and a few others) believe that I'm of the opinion to just sit back and let the guy have at this young girl. That is NOT what I've stated in any of my posts. I do agree that the parents not intervening at 14, if they were aware of it at that age, is not the correct manner in which to handle this. And, I've stated previously that I don't agree with their choice to sign over the rights for her to marry this man. Please don't misconstrue my view of this situation.


STG, I'm not trying to misconstrue your position, I'm just stating my view which differs from yours.

[TailgateNut]

It's not a take...it's an observation made for empirical data. Sorry. It may be wrong, but it's not pedophilla



Well, then take their data and shove it. I do not agree, and I doubt their view (Data) would be the same if their child would be the one involved in a relationship with a pedophile (err 40 YO man).

[BroncoBuff]

It seems as though you (and a few others) believe that I'm of the opinion to just sit back and let the guy have at this young girl. That is NOT what I've stated in any of my posts. I do agree that the parents not intervening at 14, if they were aware of it at that age, is not the correct manner in which to handle this. And, I've stated previously that I don't agree with their choice to sign over the rights for her to marry this man. Please don't misconstrue my view of this situation.

That's true stg ... I had the same reaction a couple of times merely because I pointed out 16 is the age of consent (14 in Canada). This issue provokes powerful feelings. Garcia's getting crap because he merely pointed out it's not "pedophilia." Well, it's not pedophilia. Not by definition, anyway.

I think EVERYONE on the board is pretty bothered by the fact he seems to have "groomed her" starting in the ninth grade. That is WRONG of the guy, no doubt.

As an adult, and as coach in her favorite sport, he had a responsibility to her. At the very least, he should have:
1. Transferred schools/jobs when he realized there was a mutual "attraction";
2. Told her to experience a year of high school without him around;
3. If they were still attracted, approach the parents openly;
4. Then set a wedding date AFTER her H.S. graduation.

Again, I'm less concerned about this situation because he quit his job and married her. The problem is, their 50-year old next door neighbor slob couldda been doing her every afternoon after school perfectly legally. Or even more troubling, adult drug dealers a la that scene in Steven Soderburgh's "Traffic." It's tempting to get all worked up over this thing, but there are TONS of other, worse problems re: too young girls being taken advantage of.





Time to ACT!

E-MAIL YOUR STATE AND FEDERAL CONGRESSPERSON! Tell her/him you would like the minimum age of consent in your state raised to 18. Mention that California, that supposed free-wheeling state, is 18. Take the time to e-mail your state lawmakers, too ... they are the ones who really need to hear it. Tell them what you think!

U.S. House of Representatives: www.house.gov/writerep/

U.S. Senate: www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

North Carolina Assembly: www.ncleg.net/Senate/Senate.html

Colorado Assembly: www.leg.state.co.us/Clics/Clics2007A/csl.nsf/directory?openframeset

[alkemical]

If the age of consent is to be raised to 18, i want the drinking laws lowered to 18, and the driving age upped to 18.

[Northman]

Well, I've raised two daughters by myself. I can guarantee you that this man would no longer be in my daughter's life once I found out about it. He would have left voluntarily after I met with him and never contacted her again. I could and would never condone this kind of predation by an adult on a child, it wouldn't happen.


And i guess STG's point is what if your daughter didnt like that and ran away with this guy anyway and you were unable to find her? I think thats the point that everyone is missing about what STG is talking about. Young teens feel like they already can make their own decisions and when parents try to hard to get in the way of that kids sometimes leave and runaway. Im not disagreeing with your philosophy but the reality is not every kid acts like your daughters.

[TailgateNut]

If the age of consent is to be raised to 18, i want the drinking laws lowered to 18, and the driving age upped to 18.


...and why is that???

[Garcia Bronco]

and I doubt their view (Data) would be the same if their child would be the one involved in a relationship with a pedophile (err 40 YO man).

You might be right

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Well...we don't know that. We do know that ethically he should not have dated or interacted with a student in that way. My point eariler in this thread for all of those piling on is that this does not meet the definition of pedophilla as defined in the DSM-IV.I already pointed out you're full of crap using that as some kind of source to define laws dealing with pedophiles. And if you had to pass a course studying mental disorders using DSM-IV guidelines to graduate (as you said you did), you didn't graduate. In no part of that manual does it state a victim has to be 13 or younger to qualify a pedophile. It only states that the victims are typically 13 and younger. Your use of that manual to try and further your agenda here is pretty much BS.

[TailgateNut]

You might be right


...or I may be wrong, but those are my beliefs and position on the subject, regardless of current laws and other peoples' opinions. I frown on child abuse, and this, to me is a classic case of pre-meditated abuse.

[alkemical]

...and why is that???

Why not? You can enlist when 18 but can't drink, can smoke at 18, etc.
I think it'd be great to tie it all into one year and as Ronco says "set it and forget it".

[Garcia Bronco]

I already pointed out you're full of crap using that as some kind of source to define laws dealing with pedophiles. And if you had to pass a course studying mental disorders using DSM-IV guidelines to graduate (as you said you did), you didn't graduate. In no part of that manual does it state a victim has to be 13 or younger to qualify a pedophile. It only states that the victims are typically 13 and younger. Your use of that manual to try and further your agenda here is pretty much BS.

I clearly qualified what I was talking about as from a mental disorder perspective. I also used the qualifier "typically". And I don't have an agenda...unless you are refering to the need to make sense. :)

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I clearly qualified what I was talking about as from a mental disorder perspective. I also used the qualifier "typically". And I don't have an agenda...unless you are refering to the need to make sense. :)More BS! You continually used loose language in that manual as fact for the definition of a pedophile to justify your acceptance of predation by this creep on that girl. You've posted so much crap in this thread you can't even remember it all so I'll refresh your memory.

I think Slap was right, you're doing nothing more than trolling.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

All I condone is letting these people live their lives and their right to make the choice. The DSM-IV portion is to show people what is clinicaly defined as pedophilla, since other were throwing around the term.

That's the definition of pedophilla.

Because it would seem many of you don't actually know what a pedophile is from a mental disease perspective.

Even at 14 she is not prepubescent or peripubescent.

That may be, but he's broken no laws. And then it goes back to...how happy are they and what right do we have to stand in the way?

It depends. Some folks mature faster than others. But really...people have been getting married at these ages for hundreds of years. I agree with BB...I bet they'll still be together 10 years from now. Bottom line...people need to mind their own business.

But there isn't a pedophile in this situation.

Why is it sick?

Sorry if that upsets you...but it's not pedophilla.

The only way this would actually be considered pedophilia is if she was prepubescent or peripubescent.v

[Garcia Bronco]

More BS! You continually used loose language in that manual as fact for the definition of a pedophile to justify your acceptance of predation by this creep on that girl. You've posted so much crap in this thread you can't even remember it all so I'll refresh your memory.

I think Slap was right, you're doing nothing more than trolling.

-------------------------------------------------------------------



















v

I apologize...instead of using the word typically...I used the word generally

"Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco
You are the one that is not reading. Generally 13 or younger...which would includ 8 years of age. Check the DSM-IV...it's been peer reviewed so you shouldn't have an issue accepting it's findings."

And I am not nor have I trolled. Just because you frequently disagree with me doesn't mean it's trolling. I also noticed you left out this post I made in you list

[BroncoBuff]

Time to ACT!

E-MAIL YOUR STATE AND FEDERAL CONGRESSPERSON! Tell her/him you would like the minimum age of consent in your state raised to 18. Mention that California, that supposed free-wheeling state, is 18. Take the time to e-mail your state lawmakers, too ... they are the ones who really need to hear it. Tell them what you think!

U.S. House of Representatives: www.house.gov/writerep/

U.S. Senate: www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

North Carolina Assembly: www.ncleg.net/Senate/Senate.html

Colorado Assembly: www.leg.state.co.us/Clics/Clics2007A/csl.nsf/directory?openframeset

[TailgateNut]

Why not? You can enlist when 18 but can't drink, can smoke at 18, etc.
I think it'd be great to tie it all into one year and as Ronco says "set it and forget it".

If you enlist and go to Korea you can drink all you want at 18!:approve:

[RkyMtnThunder]

In most countries of the world - this wouldnt be news


hell, 50 years ago in this country - this wouldnt be news.


Grown men have been marrying young women since the dawn of recorded history.


The only issue I have, is ROFL at a 40 year old man who feels that he emotionally and intellectually relates better to a 16 year old kid than someone in his peer group.







Amazed at all the prudes on this site. Demanding federal age of consent to be 18?!?! When did you loose your virginity? (dont answer, really I dont care. Just dont be a hypocrite. You know who you are)

[TailgateNut]

In most countries of the world - this wouldnt be news


hell, 50 years ago in this country - this wouldnt be news.


Grown men have been marrying young women since the dawn of recorded history.


The only issue I have, is ROFL at a 40 year old man who feels that he emotionally and intellectually relates better to a 16 year old kid than someone in his peer group.







Amazed at all the prudes on this site. Demanding federal age of consent to be 18?!?! When did you loose your virginity? (dont answer, really I dont care. Just dont be a hypocrite. You know who you are)


Newsflash:

This is the USA, not most countries!

This isn't 50 years ago!

I don't consider a 40YO who pursues 14 YO girls a "grown man", he a GD pedophile.

[alkemical]

I just figure make it 18 for everything. Saves the hassle that way: Drink, Drive, Gamble, Smoke, Have sex, vote, enlist, and gamble. I mean $h!+, a "teenager" isn't "legally" an adult until they are 18, so why not grant them the ability to have all adult privileges at once. It's not about prudence, just efficiency.


PS - Filters, ha! I scoff at your filters! ;)

[Merlin]

Today - right now - in all of Canada, anyone 14 years old is free to consent to sex with anyone.
I have not read this whole thread (nor do I intend to), and don't know if anyone corrected you, but just in case, your facts are wrong. In Canada a 14-yr-old can only consent to sex with a person up to 2 or 3 yrs older (not sure which one).

Here is what the provision in the CC states:

Inference of sexual exploitation

(1.2) A judge may infer that a person is in a relationship with a young person that is exploitative of the young person from the nature and circumstances of the relationship, including
(a) the age of the young person;

(b) the age difference between the person and the young person;

(c) the evolution of the relationship; and

(d) the degree of control or influence by the person over the young person.

Definition of “young person”

(2) In this section, "young person" means a person fourteen years of age or more but under the age of eighteen years.


The cts generally treat a person that is more than 3 yrs older as being exploitative.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Check the DSM-IV...it's been peer reviewed so you shouldn't have an issue accepting it's findings."
I'll give you a big fat BULL**** on that. The DSM is a bunch of crap based on pseudo science used to support the head shrinker industry's highly profitable practice of diagnosing and drugging people in emotional pain. DSM III-R diagnosed homosexuality as a mental disorder until that became politically incorrect. It was peer reviewed also. I spent nearly 20 years in the mental health field...it's the biggest scam ever.

I've got 5 daughters...two are 17...and if some 40 year old pussbag came around one of mine, he's taking a hike or he's mysteriously vaninshing off the planet. End of story.

[BroncoBuff]

I have not read this whole thread (nor do I intend to), and don't know if anyone corrected you, but just in case, your facts are wrong. In Canada a 14-yr-old can only consent to sex with a person up to 2 or 3 yrs older (not sure which one).

Here is what the provision in the CC states:

Inference of sexual exploitation

(1.2) A judge may infer that a person is in a relationship with a young person that is exploitative of the young person from the nature and circumstances of the relationship, including
(a) the age of the young person;

(b) the age difference between the person and the young person;

(c) the evolution of the relationship; and

(d) the degree of control or influence by the person over the young person.

Definition of “young person”

(2) In this section, "young person" means a person fourteen years of age or more but under the age of eighteen years.


The cts generally treat a person that is more than 3 yrs older as being exploitative.

Thanks, that does make a difference - although the statute does not state such a finding directly, it just gives BROAD latitude to judges - something that rarely happens in the States. Assemblies and Congress do all they can (believe me) to narrow what the judge can decide.

I was/am a California/WA lawyer, and had always heard "it's 14 in Canada." Glad to see it's not as nuts as that sounds. :thumbsup:

[BroncoBuff]

I'll give you a big fat BULL**** on that. The DSM is a bunch of crap based on pseudo science used to support the head shrinker industry's highly profitable practice of diagnosing and drugging people in emotional pain. DSM III-R diagnosed homosexuality as a mental disorder until that became politically incorrect. It was peer reviewed also. I spent nearly 20 years in the mental health field...it's the biggest scam ever.

I've got 5 daughters...two are 17...and if some 40 year old pussbag came around one of mine, he's taking a hike or he's mysteriously vaninshing off the planet. End of story.

I appreciate your position steps ... but he's right about the definition of "pedophilia."

Please, let's not let our anger override plain meanings of things. Hell, if a 40 year old jerk went after even my 18 year old, I might get tough with him. That doesn't mean I change definitions of words though.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I appreciate your position steps ... but he's right about the definition of "pedophilia."

Please, let's not let our anger override plain meanings of things. Hell, if a 40 year old jerk went after even my 18 year old, I might get tough with him. That doesn't mean I change definitions of words though.IMO Garcia isn't right about one thing in this thread, especially his lame attempt at trying to use the DSM to define what a pedophile is.

[HorseHead]

Piscopo and that "girl" have divorced.....

[alkemical]

pedophelia & predation even though have similar behaviour do not equate to the same thing.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

pedophelia & predation even though have similar behaviour do not equate to the same thing.
ped·o·phil·i·a
n.
The act or fantasy on the part of an adult of engaging in sexual activity with a child or children.

Seems clear enough to me.

[alkemical]

ped·o·phil·i·a
n.
The act or fantasy on the part of an adult of engaging in sexual activity with a child or children.

Seems clear enough to me.

Nobody's been able to define when a "teenager" is a "child". Some say 16, some 18, etc. I think it's sort of reprehensible that a 40yr old would pursue a 15 year old, but it doesn't appear he has a pattern of behaviour - as stated before he quit his job, etc - so his intentions seem valid. I think "intent" has to play a part here.

Oh yeah, and since it's not appearing to be of ill intent, etc - it's not my business and i wish them, and their families well.

[footstepsfrom#27]

I appreciate your position steps ... but he's right about the definition of "pedophilia."

Please, let's not let our anger override plain meanings of things. Hell, if a 40 year old jerk went after even my 18 year old, I might get tough with him. That doesn't mean I change definitions of words though.
Looking to the DSM for truth about ANYTHING is a VERY BAD idea. I hate the fact that they define these sick freaks as "mentally ill"...thus lumping them in with all the other "disorders" and implying that they need treatment rather than to be put away or strung up. I worked around a bunch of these people over the years, and they make my skin crawl. I got the treatment plan right here:

http://abyss.hubbe.net/jeremiah/gallery/gfx/covers/jtv/lg/ep/s1/110-shotgun-lg.jpg

[TailgateNut]

Looking to the DSM for truth about ANYTHING is a VERY BAD idea. I hate the fact that they define these sick freaks as "mentally ill"...thus lumping them in with all the other "disorders" and implying that they need treatment rather than to be put away or strung up. I worked around a bunch of these people over the years, and they make my skin crawl. I got the treatment plan right here:

http://abyss.hubbe.net/jeremiah/gallery/gfx/covers/jtv/lg/ep/s1/110-shotgun-lg.jpg


That's the fact Jack!:thumbsup:

[Garcia Bronco]

I'll give you a big fat BULL**** on that. The DSM is a bunch of crap based on pseudo science used to support the head shrinker industry's highly profitable practice of diagnosing and drugging people in emotional pain. DSM III-R diagnosed homosexuality as a mental disorder until that became politically incorrect. It was peer reviewed also. I spent nearly 20 years in the mental health field...it's the biggest scam ever.

I've got 5 daughters...two are 17...and if some 40 year old pussbag came around one of mine, he's taking a hike or he's mysteriously vaninshing off the planet. End of story.

There is truth to what you are saying. But the DSM-IV is the base point for defining the problems. Psychology is a science though, and psychology and the DSM-IV(in a sense) are recognized in courts as experts. Attraction to others regardless of gender or age always boils down to a chemical response, either voluntary or involuntary, in the human system. This has an relationship with behavior. While I would love to see all pedophiles burned at the stake, it is generally a mental disorder. This guy here isn't a pedophile. He doesn't fit the definition. He's wrong for engaging in this behavior with a student. At this point though...she is 16 and at the legal age on consent in the state of North Carolina. Hopefully they have a happy life together.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Nobody's been able to define when a "teenager" is a "child". Some say 16, some 18, etc. I think it's sort of reprehensible that a 40yr old would pursue a 15 year old, but it doesn't appear he has a pattern of behaviour - as stated before he quit his job, etc - so his intentions seem valid. I think "intent" has to play a part here.

Oh yeah, and since it's not appearing to be of ill intent, etc - it's not my business and i wish them, and their families well.He started stalking her when she was 14, that's good enough for me.

[alkemical]

He started stalking her when she was 14, that's good enough for me.

Does he have repeated behaviour patterns, etc. Sorry, it's not cut & dried even though i don't agree with it - it would have to be shown he has malicious intent. If he doesn't, not my problem - and not my business. Not to mention you didn't address the comment you bolded.

[footstepsfrom#27]

There is truth to what you are saying. But the DSM-IV is the base point for defining the problems. Psychology is a science though, and psychology and the DSM-IV(in a sense) are recognized in courts as experts.
The DSM IV is not about psychology. It's about psychiatry...a big difference. Psychology is about finding the psychological and emotional reasons for behavior, talking about them to someone who can help you come to grips with things and proceed to change. Psychiatry is about classifying people as diseased and pumping them full of drugs or shocking their brains. The difference between a crack dealer and a psychiatrist boils down to the fact that the crack dealer won't try to tell you the stuff is good for you. I've worked with hundreds of these turds, and they have ZERO interest in their patients beyond billing their insurance companies for thousands of dollars. You couldn't do any worse than to spill your guts to one of these ****heads expecting some help.

As for psychiatry's recognition in court, it's an unfortunate result of the billions of dollars in lobbying that the AMA, the APA and the pharmaceutical lobby has at it's disposal and a 50 year public relations coup with willing idiots in the media who hang on their every pronouncment as gospel. Neither psychology nor psychiatry are empirical science...but they want you to think they are. I have respect for most psychologists/therapists because they see their role as helping people. I have none for the psychiatrists. Most of the truly sick SOB's in the mental health system are the "doctors" themselves.

And I could give a crap what the state says is the age of consent. These parents deserve jail time.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Does he have repeated behaviour patterns, etc. Sorry, it's not cut & dried even though i don't agree with it - it would have to be shown he has malicious intent. If he doesn't, not my problem - and not my business. Not to mention you didn't address the comment you bolded.Uh, that matters not one iota in my book. If you're 40 years old stalking a 14 year old child, you are pervert and need to be dealt with as such.

[alkemical]

Uh, that matters not one iota in my book. If you're 40 years old stalking a 14 year old child, you are pervert and need to be dealt with as such.

That's your POV, but who knows maybe they will live happily ever after smoking cigs to further your ire.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

That's your POV, but who knows maybe they will live happily ever after smoking cigs to further your ire.Or maybe they will live "happily ever after" becoming militant opposer's to tobacco to further your ire. The odds of either happening, about nil.

[Garcia Bronco]

The DSM IV is not about psychology. It's about psychiatry...a big difference. Psychology is about finding the psychological and emotional reasons for behavior, talking about them to someone who can help you come to grips with things and proceed to change. Psychiatry is about classifying people as diseased and pumping them full of drugs or shocking their brains. The difference between a crack dealer and a psychiatrist boils down to the fact that the crack dealer won't try to tell you the stuff is good for you. I've worked with hundreds of these turds, and they have ZERO interest in their patients beyond billing their insurance companies for thousands of dollars. You couldn't do any worse than to spill your guts to one of these ****heads expecting some help.

As for psychiatry's recognition in court, it's an unfortunate result of the billions of dollars in lobbying that the AMA, the APA and the pharmaceutical lobby has at it's disposal and a 50 year public relations coup with willing idiots in the media who hang on their every pronouncment as gospel. Neither psychology nor psychiatry are empirical science...but they want you to think they are. I have respect for most psychologists/therapists because they see their role as helping people. I have none for the psychiatrists. Most of the truly sick SOB's in the mental health system are the "doctors" themselves.

And I could give a crap what the state says is the age of consent. These parents deserve jail time.

First off...psychology is a science...it is one of the 4 science and is the 4th science. The research is based of empirical evidence. If you are refering to psycho-dynamics(Freud), I agree. I also agree there is no chemical solution to a spirtual problem.

[alkemical]

First off...psychology is a science...it is one of the 4 science and is the 4th science. The research is based of empirical evidence. If you are refering to psycho-dynamics(Freud), I agree. I also agree there is no chemical solution to a spirtual problem.


Ding ding ding

[footstepsfrom#27]

First off...psychology is a science...it is one of the 4 science and is the 4th science. The research is based of empirical evidence. If you are refering to psycho-dynamics(Freud), I agree. I also agree there is no chemical solution to a spirtual problem.
I did not say it wasn't a science. I said it's not an empirical science. In other words, it's not science in the same respect that mathematics, physics or chemistry are science.

[24champ]

Looking to the DSM for truth about ANYTHING is a VERY BAD idea. I hate the fact that they define these sick freaks as "mentally ill"...thus lumping them in with all the other "disorders" and implying that they need treatment rather than to be put away or strung up. I worked around a bunch of these people over the years, and they make my skin crawl. I got the treatment plan right here:

http://abyss.hubbe.net/jeremiah/gallery/gfx/covers/jtv/lg/ep/s1/110-shotgun-lg.jpg

Rep....


http://www.sci.fi/~ivanoff/starwave.jpg


But being as this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself a question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk? Still want to date 14 yr olds? I didn't think so...

[Garcia Bronco]

I did not say it wasn't a science. I said it's not an empirical science. In other words, it's not science in the same respect that mathematics, physics or chemistry are science.

The research, and it's depending on the subject, is empirical. Like if I did a study on human sex difference based on spatial ability involving the mental rotation task. It's a time test and recorded properly it is empirical evidence. If we are talking about case studies...or course that's not empirical. While case studies can be insightful, they are not empirical at all.

[footstepsfrom#27]

The research, and it's depending on the subject, is empirical. Like if I did a study on human sex difference based on spatial ability involving the mental rotation task. It's a time test and recorded properly it is empirical evidence. If we are talking about case studies...or course that's not empirical. While case studies can be insightful, they are not empirical at all.
You're talking about experimental psychology, which is obviously more empricial than clinical psychology. Personally however, I side with Kants notion that Psychology is not empirical science but let's use the word "hard" science vs. "soft" science instead. Psychology in any form is not "hard" science as say...physics or mathematics are. In any case, my problem is not with psychology; it's with psychiatry, which is what the DSM IV is all about.

[BroncoBuff]

I did not say it wasn't a science. I said it's not an empirical science. In other words, it's not science in the same respect that mathematics, physics or chemistry are science.

As a B.A. Psychology, CU-Denver 1985, I can respond that you are 100% correct. Not every "science" follows the scientific method, those are the 'soft sciences,' and they include, you might be surprised, meteorology and in large part, psychiatry.

You're not quite right about the DSM, though - it's used in psychiatry AND psychology. It's just that the different symptoms and points systems that add up to a definitive DSM diagnosis are quite subjective, and different practitioners say different things. Footsteps, "pedophilia" applies to pre-pubescent children only, 10 or 11 and under.

Most state laws have a brite-line break in ages for criminal sex offenses: 13 and under, 14 and over.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

As a B.A. Psychology, CU-Denver 1985, I can respond that you are 100% correct. Not every "science" follows the scientific method, those are the 'soft sciences,' and they include, you might be surprised, meteorology and in large part, psychiatry.

You're not quite right about the DSM, though - it's used in psychiatry AND psychology. It's just that the different symptoms and points systems that add up to a definitive DSM diagnosis are quite subjective, and different practitioners say different things. Footsteps, "pedophilia" applies to pre-pubescent children only, 10 or 11 and under.

Most state laws have a brite-line break in ages for criminal sex offenses: 13 and under, 14 and over.In what sense? Certainly not in state laws definition. And not in the DSM definition.
Different states have different laws and definitions, especially AZ.

I posted this earlier..

ped·o·phil·i·a
n.
The act or fantasy on the part of an adult of engaging in sexual activity with a child or children.

sexual perversion in which children are the preferred sexual object.


EDIT: Maybe this is somewhat confusing since United States
Federal Exploitation and Obscenity Laws (http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/ceos/citizensguide_porn.html) state that Child pornography is defined by law as the visual depiction of a person under the age of 18 engaged in sexually explicit conduct. See 18 U.S.C. §§ 2256(1) and (8). This means that any image of a child engaged in sexually explicit conduct is illegal contraband. Notably, the legal definition of sexually explicit conduct does not require that an image depict a child engaging in sexual activity. See 18 U.S.C. § 2256(2). A picture of a naked child may constitute illegal child pornography if it is sufficiently sexually suggestive. In addition, for purposes of the child pornography statutes, federal law considers a person under the age of 18 to be a child. See 18 U.S.C. § 2256(1). It is irrelevant that the age of consent for sexual activity in a given state might be lower than 18

[Garcia Bronco]

In what sense? Certainly not in state laws definition. And not in the DSM definition.
Different states have different laws and definitions, especially AZ.

I posted this earlier..

ped·o·phil·i·a
n.
The act or fantasy on the part of an adult of engaging in sexual activity with a child or children.

sexual perversion in which children are the preferred sexual object.


EDIT: Maybe this somewhat confusing since United States
Federal Exploitation and Obscenity Laws (http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/ceos/citizensguide_porn.html) state that Child pornography is defined by law as the visual depiction of a person under the age of 18 engaged in sexually explicit conduct. See 18 U.S.C. §§ 2256(1) and (8). This means that any image of a child engaged in sexually explicit conduct is illegal contraband. Notably, the legal definition of sexually explicit conduct does not require that an image depict a child engaging in sexual activity. See 18 U.S.C. § 2256(2). A picture of a naked child may constitute illegal child pornography if it is sufficiently sexually suggestive. In addition, for purposes of the child pornography statutes, federal law considers a person under the age of 18 to be a child. See 18 U.S.C. § 2256(1). It is irrelevant that the age of consent for sexual activity in a given state might be lower than 18

I think applying child porno laws to that are a legal stretch, but I could certainly see the AG(anyAG) applying it that way. I guess also the marriage is a state governed process.

[BroncoBuff]

In what sense? Certainly not in state laws definition. And not in the DSM definition.
Different states have different laws and definitions, especially AZ.

I posted this earlier..

ped·o·phil·i·a
n.
The act or fantasy on the part of an adult of engaging in sexual activity with a child or children.

sexual perversion in which children are the preferred sexual object.


EDIT: Maybe this is somewhat confusing since United States
Federal Exploitation and Obscenity Laws (http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/ceos/citizensguide_porn.html) state that Child pornography is defined by law as the visual depiction of a person under the age of 18 engaged in sexually explicit conduct. See 18 U.S.C. §§ 2256(1) and (8). This means that any image of a child engaged in sexually explicit conduct is illegal contraband. Notably, the legal definition of sexually explicit conduct does not require that an image depict a child engaging in sexual activity. See 18 U.S.C. § 2256(2). A picture of a naked child may constitute illegal child pornography if it is sufficiently sexually suggestive. In addition, for purposes of the child pornography statutes, federal law considers a person under the age of 18 to be a child. See 18 U.S.C. § 2256(1). It is irrelevant that the age of consent for sexual activity in a given state might be lower than 18

You have it all mixed up ... the word "child" is defined differently in the unattributed definition you posted, and Title 18 of the United States Code. Sorry, but they're defined differently.

But NONE OF THAT MATTERS! We're talking about PERVERSION either way. Just don't let emotions like anger and fear outweigh rational thought.

[BroncoBuff]

Just like I said 2 pages ago ... PRE-pubescent.

But a rose by and name is still a rose, and a pervert by any name is still a pervert.

I just don't think this particular guy qualifies.




http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/1716/pedgs3.jpg
http://members.shaw.ca/pdg/pedophilia_is_defined.html



http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/6117/ped2uw0.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia

[Lev Vyvanse]

First off...psychology is a science...it is one of the 4 science and is the 4th science. The research is based of empirical evidence. If you are refering to psycho-dynamics(Freud), I agree. I also agree there is no chemical solution to a spirtual problem.

Yeah a soft science.

[24champ]

I just don't think this particular guy qualifies.



Well Amigo what do you think they were texting to each other at 2am when she was 14-15?

[Jana®]

IMO, if she isn't of legal age, she's jailbait and stay away. I don't care how old she "seems" or how grown up she looks, or if she's slept with the entire Bronco's Defense. She's still hands off.

[Garcia Bronco]

Yeah a soft science.

You'd be incorrect. I hardly think the study of human behavior is soft. It's actually very complex and difficult. It also as perplexing if not more so than Physics, Chemistry, and Biology. Which are the other 3 base sciences. People often refer to math as a science. Math is techincally not a science. It's more of a tool and descriptor. An avenue to by which to put things into quantity. But there are areas where math could be considered a science.

[Garcia Bronco]

Well Amigo what do you think they were texting to each other at 2am when she was 14-15?

Who knows...it could have been track tips...and it might have esculated from there. I wonder if the texting aspect fostered this relationship. It was an after hours/out of school portal to each other. I still say at this point though...to each their own.

[lazarus4444]

wow, lots of discussion, all good points, interesting reading. It'll be a moot point in 18mo when she turns 18 anyway. Ah well, to each their own although i do wonder what the hell they have in common, lol.

[Lev Vyvanse]

You'd be incorrect. I hardly think the study of human behavior is soft. It's actually very complex and difficult. It also as perplexing if not more so than Physics, Chemistry, and Biology. Which are the other 3 base sciences. People often refer to math as a science. Math is techincally not a science. It's more of a tool and descriptor. An avenue to by which to put things into quantity. But there are areas where math could be considered a science.

Compare acceptable R values for peer reviewed articles for psychology with any of the hard sciences then tell me they are the same. It's apples and oranges. Complexity of a theory doesn't necessarily mean it's good science complex theories involve more variables thus is more difficult to prove scientifically. And thanks for playing but you are incorrect.

[BroncoBuff]

Well Amigo what do you think they were texting to each other at 2am when she was 14-15?
I was thinking 16 ... but yes, when you say 14 it's a LOT more perverted.

If this guy were a true offender, he wouldda left a trail by age 40, and apparently there was none. And again, he did quit his job to marry her, so we're not talking about a child molester or anything ... the school there cannot possibly be PRO-pervert ... if he had done anything demonsrtably wrong, they would have fired him.

What he DID do is use his position of authority inappropriately. She was much too young to fall under the spell of an older man. This is the third tiome in this thread I've said this:
1. Once he realized there was a mutual attraction, he should have transferred schools.
2. Let her turn 16 (age of consent), and experience high school without him around.
3. If they were still attracted then, approach the parents openly
4. Set a wedding date AFTER her graduation.

HE was the adult here - HE has the responsibility.

I am very liberal on individual freedoms ... and when two people find love, it's hard to argue. He just should not have messed around with her while A) he was employed at her school, B) she was under 16. After he transferred and she's 16, though .... nothing to stop them. That's why I posted those e-mail addresses ... did any of the angry posters here e-mail? It's all well and good to puff up your chest and post angry denunciations ... why not ACT? I DID. I told the North Carolina assemblyman I wanted the age of consent raised to 18.

Anybody else?

[BroncoBuff]

Time to ACT!

E-MAIL YOUR STATE AND FEDERAL CONGRESSPERSON! Tell her/him you would like the minimum age of consent in your state raised to 18. Mention that California, that supposed free-wheeling state, is 18. Take the time to e-mail your state lawmakers, too ... they are the ones who really need to hear it. Tell them what you think!

U.S. House of Representatives: www.house.gov/writerep/

U.S. Senate: www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

North Carolina Assembly: www.ncleg.net/Senate/Senate.html

Colorado Assembly: www.leg.state.co.us/Clics/Clics2007A/csl.nsf/directory?openframeset

[Garcia Bronco]

Compare acceptable R values for peer reviewed articles for psychology with any of the hard sciences then tell me they are the same. It's apples and oranges. Complexity of a theory doesn't necessarily mean it's good science complex theories involve more variables thus is more difficult to prove scientifically. .

I agree. I didn't say complex theory's,...It's a complex topic: Human behavior. As you point out, many variables are harder to account for and human behavior combined with ethical constraints make it difficult to elminate confounding variables. But there are research methods that can do that. Plus you have to consider the vast disciplines under psychology. Especially brain chemistry's effect on behavior, which also involves biology. It is a science backed by empirical data in research. Doesn't mean every theory is right...same goes for the other 3 base sciences

[Lev Vyvanse]

I agree. I didn't say complex theory's,...It's a complex topic: Human behavior. As you point out, many variables are harder to account for and human behavior combined with ethical constraints make it difficult to elminate confounding variables. But there are research methods that can do that. Plus you have to consider the vast disciplines under psychology. Especially brain chemistry's effect on behavior, which also involves biology. It is a science backed by empirical data in research. Doesn't mean every theory is right...same goes for the other 3 base sciences

How about the laws?