Eslinger Named To All-NFL Europa Team

[TheSportsGuru]

Dude just keeps winning awards....

http://www.milehighreport.com/story/2007/6/21/11317/2764

[crowebomber]

Dude just keeps winning awards....

http://www.milehighreport.com/story/2007/6/21/11317/2764

He might be the most award winningest player to get cut this year too!

[TheSportsGuru]

He might be the most award winningest player to get cut this year too!

touche....


Time will tell!:afro:

[crowebomber]

touche....


Time will tell!:afro:

To be fair, I thought we got a steal when we drafted him, and he obviously has produced on the field. I really would love for him to come into training camp and dominate guys, but that didn't happen last year. Not even close. He got pushed all around and looked like he didn't even belong.

[Los Broncos]

Nice to see, KC is sinking and our guys are winning awards!

Loving is what i got :thumbsup:

[footstepsfrom#27]

The only award I care about him winning is the one earned by 52 other guys on this team...a roster spot. So far at least, he's the lone draft mistake. Hopefully he proves himself this year because it's probably his last shot.

[denverobsession]

I think you're all making a mistake to discount Eslinger. Time will tell...

[TheSportsGuru]

You know my feelings...

I think I made them very clear on MHR Radio last night....

[bfoflcommish]

I think you're all making a mistake to discount Eslinger. Time will tell...



greg....is that you?

[SoDak Bronco]

I don't think it is fair to call a guy a mistake. He was taken in the 6th round...He has done everything the coaches have asked, and technically is a solid player, he just needs to beef it up some. I think he will stick.

[Bladerunner]

There is no such thing as a 6th round draft bust....less than 10% end up playing in the league atfter 3-4 years...Eslinger may or may not make the Broncos roster, but it's not even the same thing as Foster getting his ass shipped off after blowing chunks for a few years.

Who knows, given enough time to develop, he may turn out solid in the big leagues after all. We've hung onto less promising dudes (yeah you Nate).

[Killericon]

I'll be rooting for him...I heard he beat Michelangelo's David in a staring contest.

[Los Broncos]

I'll be rooting for him...I heard he beat Michelangelo's David in a staring contest.

Hilarious!

[chaz]

The only award I care about him winning is the one earned by 52 other guys on this team...a roster spot. So far at least, he's the lone draft mistake. Hopefully he proves himself this year because it's probably his last shot.

you're talking out your ass:P ...as others have pointed out, sixth rounders arent busts or mistakes, especially after only one year. He has the technical skills to be a starting NFL center, and i'm sure the front office is well aware of taht. if need be he could be put on practice squad for a year, but i think he sticks after his successful offseason.

Greg Eslinger will be the next Denver center after Nalen retires. Mark it down.

My minnesota homeboy gets no love on here at all...none.

[RunSilentRunDeep]

Hey Chris Myers, do you see the writing on the wall?

[Bronco LB 59]

He might be the most award winningest player to get cut this year too!

The college careers and first pro seasons of Tom Nalen and Greg Eslinger are eerle similar. Who knows what will happen from here on out with Eslinger, but I like his chances to be Ben Hamilton II in the very least.

[HorseHead]

Didn't Eslinger win an Outland Award? It's not like he blew in College, he just needs to eat alot of pasta....

Don't write the guy off....

[Atlas]

I don't see why all the negativity towards him. Both Hamilton and Lepsis played in NFLE. I think they turned out pretty good.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Nice to see, KC is sinking and our guys are winning awards!

Loving is what i got :thumbsup:

Our running back won co-offensive MVP. Besides, NFL Europe awards are a step up from high school football awards.

[Los Broncos]

Our running back won co-offensive MVP. Besides, NFL Europe awards are a step up from high school football awards.

So what, you're team sucks balls.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

So what, you're team sucks balls.

"Your," not "you're."

"You're" is a contraction of "You are."

Therefore, you were saying "you are team sucks balls."

See how stupid you sound?

[Los Broncos]

"Your," not "you're."

"You're" is a contraction of "You are."

Therefore, you were saying "you are team sucks balls."

See how stupid you sound?

Thats so weak.

[Rascal]

Hopefully he can continue in his development and be good enough next year to step in and not miss a beat when Nalen retires. The potential is there IMO, just needs a bit more experience and some tweaks (in addition to getting stronger). He's getting the experience in Europe right now (and last year) and can get a bit more refinement during the offseason. Tuten will make sure he develops the strength required.

[bap454]

Hey Chris Myers, do you see the writing on the wall?

Couldnt agree more. No way Myers makes the team over Eslinger.:thumbsup:

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Thats so weak.

I know. Maybe you should go back to school?

[ward63]

Couldnt agree more. No way Myers makes the team over Eslinger.:thumbsup:

That's a pretty big statement right there! Myers played a little bit at the end of the year and plays ST, so we'll just have to wait and see. It's all speculation right now.

[Drek]

Its surprising how little people realize the development system this FO has established for OLs. Lepsis played in NFLE, then won a roster spot the next year. Hamilton played in NFLE, won a starting job the next year. Pears played in NFLE, started 10 games last year.

What did they all have in common? A good combination of natural talent and solid techique. What did they lack? Size, strength, and experience handling NFL sized DLs with doubters proclaiming them too light or weak to hold up in the NFL. A season in Europe gives guys a chance to work their craft against NFL sized DLs and learn the leverage game you have to play with them. Eslinger clearly got the lesson.

A few years from now people will act like they never doubted our starting center while those few of us who knew how much a steal we got will smile and nod.

[Kaylore]

Couldnt agree more. No way Myers makes the team over Eslinger.:thumbsup:

I'll bet you your sig otherwise. Eslinger is too small and too weak to make it in the pros.

Todd Devoe was an all-Europa wideout too...

[Kaylore]

Its surprising how little people realize the development system this FO has established for OLs. Lepsis played in NFLE, then won a roster spot the next year. Hamilton played in NFLE, won a starting job the next year. Pears played in NFLE, started 10 games last year.

What did they all have in common? A good combination of natural talent and solid techique. What did they lack? Size, strength, and experience handling NFL sized DLs with doubters proclaiming them too light or weak to hold up in the NFL. A season in Europe gives guys a chance to work their craft against NFL sized DLs and learn the leverage game you have to play with them. Eslinger clearly got the lesson.

A few years from now people will act like they never doubted our starting center while those few of us who knew how much a steal we got will smile and nod.
And then there are guys like Tyson Clabo who won similar awards in the NFLE and was cut that preseason. So it's really not a fair gauge. I don't think people realize what a small frame Eslinger has. There's a reason the guy with "all those awards" fell to the sixth round.

[mhgaffney]

Nalen is getting up there.

[BroncoBuff]

Greg, put down that NFL Europa award trophy, and step up on this scale, son.

http://touchstoneclimbing.com/images/photos/scale_07.jpg

[telluride]

Please stop quoting Bob. I have him on ignore.

Also, let's agree that Eslinger's nickname should be Gunslinger.

[footstepsfrom#27]

you're talking out your ass:P ...as others have pointed out, sixth rounders arent busts or mistakes, especially after only one year. He has the technical skills to be a starting NFL center, and i'm sure the front office is well aware of taht. if need be he could be put on practice squad for a year, but i think he sticks after his successful offseason.

Greg Eslinger will be the next Denver center after Nalen retires. Mark it down.

My minnesota homeboy gets no love on here at all...none.
What's he done so far to deserve some?

I didn't say he was a bust...but yes, any player you draft who doesn't make the team is a mistake regardless of the round they were taken. Besides, suggesting that since he's a 6th rounder so we shouldn't consider him a mistake if he fails ignores the fact that Denver drafts offensive linemen from an entirely different talent pool than most of the rest of the NFL because of our system. So just because a guy isn't considered a good line candidate by 29 other teams but still has the skill set Denver is looking for doesn't mean he gets a pass because he lasted till the 6th round. Kuper (5th), Nalen (8th), Lepsis (UFA), and Pears (UFA) are all proof that late round guys should have a good shot at our offensive line. Besides, he played in the SZB scheme in college so it's not like he didn't get here already knowing the style of play...so that's another advantage he's had that hasn't translated into a spot on the roster yet. The dude won the Outland and Rimmington. I expected a bit more than NFLE awards out of him. He's still got this year's training camp, so he hasn't failed yet...but he's obviously on the bubble right now. Do we keep guys for two years in NFLE? I think it's one isn't it? If so, then he's got one more shot before he's gone.

Also...the fact that he has good technical skills is actually working against him. That's the thing most O-line rookies lack...but since he's already got that the question is, how much more can he learn? If he's not physically capable of handling NFL tackles, and he doesn't have the frame to add weight and strength, his upside is basically limited to where he is right now. I hope I"m proven wrong but right now I think he's on the outside looking in. Corey Jackson won NFLE defensive MVP...how'd that work out?

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Meyers will make the team because of his versatility. He can play C, both guards and could play RT in an emergency.

Eslinger does have two more years eligibility for the practice squad if they think he can add the muscle.

[Hogan11]

I had totally forgotton about NFL Germany....my bad.

[Inkana7]

He's a 90 overall on my Madden Franchise.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

He's a 90 overall on my Madden Franchise.

Yeah I was really disappointed when the Chiefs cut William Bartee a few months ago. He went to multiple Pro Bowls in my Madden franchise. I'm not kidding.

[Inkana7]

George Foster has started every game for 15 years and made the pro bowl with like 100+ pancakes every one of those years.

[Hogan11]

George Foster has started every game for 15 years and made the pro bowl with like 100+ pancakes every one of those years.

Incidently, I remember a few here...the nicknamers...who wanted to call the guy "Maple" due to the pancake thing. Jinx.

[RunSilentRunDeep]

Just because Enslinger fell to the 6th round doesn't mean he's loaded with fleas. Multiple scouting services had him with a third-round grade. The simple fact that there's only one center as opposed to two guards and tackles greatly reduces the demand. Centers often fall due to the lack of need. And far as the size thing goes, no doubt he's small, but he still weighs a touch more than Nalen and Hamilton.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Just because Enslinger fell to the 6th round doesn't mean he's loaded with fleas. Multiple scouting services had him with a third-round grade. The simple fact that there's only one center as opposed to two guards and tackles greatly reduces the demand. Centers often fall due to the lack of need. And far as the size thing goes, no doubt he's small, but he still weighs a touch more than Nalen and Hamilton.
I don't think he does. Looking at this guy, I think he's about 275...despite what the roster weight says.

[ward63]

I for one am pulling for him, b/c I wanted him in the draft last year and was pretty pumped to get him. I was a fan of him in college and I think if he can build some muscle, he can be a force.

[azbroncfan]

Thats so weak.

That is typical chef fans smack.

[UltimateHoboW/Shotgun]

I know. Maybe you should go back to school?

You forget that I'm your master. I was the one that that told you about your grammitcal error last year. In fact the correction your using is the one that I told you about And I could have picked on you more and the only reason was because another maner told it was weak. So you are the one that needs to go back to school.

[Kaylore]

Just because Enslinger fell to the 6th round doesn't mean he's loaded with fleas. Multiple scouting services had him with a third-round grade. The simple fact that there's only one center as opposed to two guards and tackles greatly reduces the demand. Centers often fall due to the lack of need. And far as the size thing goes, no doubt he's small, but he still weighs a touch more than Nalen and Hamilton.

And not a single team had him rated as such. It doesn't matter what the scouting report says. Every single team passed on him five or six times. In fact were it not for the zone teams, Eslinger wouldn't have even been drafted.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

You forget that I'm your master. I was the one that that told you about your grammitcal error last year. In fact the correction your using is the one that I told you about And I could have picked on you more and the only reason was because another maner told it was weak. So you are the one that needs to go back to school.

Haha. What's a grammitcal error? Dumbass. Yeah, you certainly educated me about the difference between your and you're. I had no idea it existed prior to that moment. Moron.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

In fact the correction your using
Hahaha!!! I think you mean "you're," you dumbass. OWNED!

[wabbit]

I think you need professional help, boy...and I aint talking a weight loss clinic.

Your hysteria is only matched by you witlessness.

C'mon...be honest...how many times have you drooled on your keyboard the last five minutes with a twinkie stuck in the crack of your ass...candy wrappers strewn about the floor,and oh, is that Mom calling.

"I'll get you maaaaaan"

[24champ]

I think you need professional help, boy...and I aint talking a weight loss clinic.

Your hysteria is only matched by you witlessness.

C'mon...be honest...how many times have you drooled on your keyboard the last five minutes with a twinkie stuck in the crack of your ass...candy wrappers strewn about the floor,and oh, is that Mom calling.

"I'll get you maaaaaan"
Hilarious! LOL ^5


Wabbit strikes again.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Why are all the Mane tools obsessed with me?

[Atlas]

You forget that I'm your master. I was the one that that told you about your grammitcal error last year. In fact the correction your using is the one that I told you about And I could have picked on you more and the only reason was because another maner told it was weak. So you are the one that needs to go back to school.

You're not his master you're his slave that is why you quote him.

[fontaine]

So what's the problem again?

We expect our OL to do well, especially in NFL Europe and he's proved that. The question marks about him have nothing to do with talent, speed, athleticism, technique or intangibles. He's got all of that.

The only thing he's lacking is true NFL size and strength and the summer camps will show how much he's progressed in that area.

In the meantime here are some pics of Greg in action (number 53). He doesn't look to small to me?

http://www.colognecenturions.com/gallery/index.php?picture=0&Qwd=./Saison%202007%20%28by%20Hendrik%20Fischbach%29/Woche%2002%20%20FRA%40COL%2018-13&Qif=w02_fra%40col0260.jpg&Qiv=thumbs&Qis=M

[fontaine]

Crap, links don't work. You'll have to go to them directly.

http://www.colognecenturions.com/gallery/index.php?picture=0&Qwd=./Saison%202007%20%28by%20Hendrik%20Fischbach%29/Woche%2005%20%20COL%40BER%2024-10&Qif=w05_col_ber1134.JPG&Qiv=thumbs&Qis=M

53 in the middle with the black skull cap. Doesn't look undersized here?

http://www.colognecenturions.com/gallery/index.php?picture=0&Qwd=./Saison%202007%20%28by%20Hendrik%20Fischbach%29/Woche%2002%20%20FRA%40COL%2018-13&Qif=w02_fra%40col0260.jpg&Qiv=thumbs&Qis=M

He's listed as 293 in his Nfl europe player's page.

[ZachKC]

Great things can happen in late rounds.

Page- 7th round pick
Allen - 5th round pick

OAKLAND -- If the Oakland Raiders never see Jarrad and Jared again it will be too soon. But they probably will.

It was bad enough that Jarrad Page and Jared Allen played key roles in the Kansas City Chiefs' 20-9 win Saturday night, but they also were playing in their own backyard -- Page from Oakland and San Leandro High, Allen from Los Gatos.

Between them, Page (30) and Allen (15) got to show off in front of friends and relatives at McAfee Coliseum. And show off they did. Page had two interceptions off Andrew Walter and added a sack, a quarterback hurry and two passes defended. Allen had a sack, a forced fumble by Walter and two fumble recoveries.

Together they were major factors in five Kansas City turnovers forced and an 11-point win in a game that kept the Chiefs in the playoff hunt, if barely.

"It's awesome, coming home," Allen said. "I can't lose here. I've got bragging rights, especially since I'm staying home for Christmas. My friends would be all over me if we lost."

Page, who also had the game-ending interception in the first Raiders-Chiefs game at Arrowhead when he was starting at free safety for the injured Greg Wesley, achieved picks No.2 and No.3 as a reserve this time.

"Every game is big," Page said. "But it's real big when you come back to the house."

Page wasn't sure what turned games against the Raiders into his personal highlight film, "but I will take it against the Raiders all day. I just hope I can create something where it happens all the time."

Page is a rookie, and Allen, who had 16 sacks his first two years, has now run his total to 7.5 this year.

Although the Raiders have now gone seven games this year without scoring an offensive touchdown, neither Page nor Allen would say anything disparaging against the team they grew up watching.

"I notice with their new offensive coordinator they throw a lot of short passes," Allen said. "I think it's a better offense because they were having trouble protecting the quarterback and were running routes way down the field. They've gotten out of that. They throw some hitches and curls in the middle of the field."

In so doing, the Chiefs gave up a fair amount of yardage (307) and allowed Ronald Curry 11 catches for 106 yards. But other than three Sebastian Janikowski field goals, Oakland could not score.

"It wasn't necessarily a bend, don't break (philosophy) ... just don't give up the big plays," Page said. "If he comes underneath in the middle, sometimes you have to give that up. You can't go jumping that route and giving up 50-yard touchdowns. All you can do is try to get to the quarterback and make them throw downfield."

Allen and his linemates, accompanied by numerous blitzes from the secondary, was responsible for that. Walter was sacked four times, fumbled twice and threw the two interceptions to Page. The key, Allen said, was pressure.

"It's just one of those things," he said. "Every time you hit a quarterback you try to get the ball out. It's really been our thing all year -- trying to force turnovers. We got five today. That was awesome."

Allen was facing Raiders left tackle Robert Gallery, playing for the first time since the teams met in Kansas City. He left the game when he suffered a stinger but returned and finished.

"He was struggling a little bit," Allen said. "He's a strong player, but he's injured. I just don't think they have the depth right now they need so they are giving up sacks.

"Once you get one, you get a quarterback scared and an offensive line rattled, you just turn the heat up and go. It's exactly like a shark smelling blood in the water.

"Even though we didn't get a lot of sacks we were around him all day."

And Page seems to have a nose for the football, at least as far as the Raiders are concerned.

"I am going to remember that," Chiefs coach Herman Edwards said.

"I sure hope so," Page said.

[fontaine]

One more:

[fontaine]

Last one. He's the guy on the far left, peeling off the group, 53.

http://www.centurions.de/gallery/index.php?picture=0&Qwd=./Saison%202007%20%28by%20Hendrik%20Fischbach%29/Woche%2001%20%20COL%40HAM%2024-18&Qif=w01_col%40ham0031.jpg&Qiv=thumbs&Qis=M

[elsid13]

Myers is going to stick because of his size and ability to play all three interior position and ST, which give the team depth without additional bodies.

For Enslinger if his technique is really good and foot speed is above average he will have an opportunity to make the team despite his lack of bulk. The only problem the lack of bulk because an issue is on short yardage and goal line plays in the zone blocking scheme.

[Drek]

What NFL.com's draft scouts had to say about Eslinger's strength/explosion, they were very down on him compared to other scouts:

While Eslinger has adequate height for a center, he is clearly lighter than ideal and looks much smaller on film than his measured size. Additionally, he has short arms. Eslinger will be a durable NFL center -- his toughness, competitiveness, athleticism and flexibility will enable him to handle the grind of playing in the trenches. He is a naturally explosive center that can fire off the ball and drive the defensive tackle down the line of scrimmage. When Eslinger bends his knees, sinks his hips, blocks with a good, wide base, and uses hands aggressively, he has adequate strength in pass protection. However, most of the time he gets driven backward easily by bull rushers and he can't get any movement on straight-ahead blocks.

He really is a legit 6'3", 290+ pound lineman. In college he didn't often play up to that size, because he was more of a finesse blocker, but as the bolded section shows when he kept his technique right he had good enough strength to get the job done. He is not a technically finished player, he's just already pretty good and a quick learner. He still needs to learn more about using his strength on gameday, which he does have (28 bench reps at the combine is a good example of that strength).

Also, compare the arm size of Eslinger in college to the NFLE shots Fontaine has posted/linked to, its clear he's added at least some weight:
http://www.denverbroncos.com/resources/custom/Images/geslinger.jpg

[footstepsfrom#27]

He really is a legit 6'3", 290+ pound lineman. In college he didn't often play up to that size, because he was more of a finesse blocker, but as the bolded section shows when he kept his technique right he had good enough strength to get the job done.
I would have bolded this part also...
However, most of the time he gets driven backward easily by bull rushers and he can't get any movement on straight-ahead blocks.
...but that's just me. ;D

I don't get why this kid needs the NFLE anyway. He's not like Lepsis who played TE or Pears who lacked experience...especially in this system. Is he playing in a stretch zone scheme now? Who knows. Is he encountering NFL quality linemen? No...most of those guys won't make it. In fact his quality of competition in the Big 10 had more high quality D-line guys who will make NFL teams than NFLE does. Is he learning technique he didn't know? Doubtful...since he lacks size/strength but won the Outland and Rimmington you'd assume he did so on the basis of technique, meaning he's more polished already than most rookies in that department. Is he gaining weight/strength? Doubtful...you do that in the off season, not when you're playing. It seems like he'd be better off in Denver, pumping iron and downing protein shakes and being Tom Nalen's shadow.

I can't help but wonder if the guy won't be so exhausted from playing a whole NFLE season that he won't be able to compete in training camp for a roster spot. I'd love for him to come in and start showing us he's the next Nalen. I'm skeptical at this point though that he's any more than a guy looking at trying to avoid getting cut or maybe being a practice squad guy.

[fontaine]

I would have bolded this part also...

...but that's just me. ;D

I don't get why this kid needs the NFLE anyway. He's not like Lepsis who played TE or Pears who lacked experience...especially in this system. Is he playing in a stretch zone scheme now? Who knows. Is he encountering NFL quality linemen? No...most of those guys won't make it. In fact his quality of competition in the Big 10 had more high quality D-line guys who will make NFL teams than NFLE does. Is he learning technique he didn't know? Doubtful...since he lacks size/strength but won the Outland and Rimmington you'd assume he did so on the basis of technique, meaning he's more polished already than most rookies in that department. Is he gaining weight/strength? Doubtful...you do that in the off season, not when you're playing. It seems like he'd be better off in Denver, pumping iron and downing protein shakes and being Tom Nalen's shadow.

I disagree. He definitely needed to play in NFL Europe. From the pics above you can see the difference in this size from College to Europe and see that he has bulked up. But there's a vast difference in bulking up pumping iron/eating lots and doing that while staying in football shape, being limber and practicing.

Kris Jenkins, Lendale White bulked up this offseason but it's going to do them no good. You need to play hard against competition to get your body adjusted to the extra weight.

[chaz]

What's he done so far to deserve some?

I didn't say he was a bust...but yes, any player you draft who doesn't make the team is a mistake regardless of the round they were taken. Besides, suggesting that since he's a 6th rounder so we shouldn't consider him a mistake if he fails ignores the fact that Denver drafts offensive linemen from an entirely different talent pool than most of the rest of the NFL because of our system. So just because a guy isn't considered a good line candidate by 29 other teams but still has the skill set Denver is looking for doesn't mean he gets a pass because he lasted till the 6th round. Kuper (5th), Nalen (8th), Lepsis (UFA), and Pears (UFA) are all proof that late round guys should have a good shot at our offensive line. Besides, he played in the SZB scheme in college so it's not like he didn't get here already knowing the style of play...so that's another advantage he's had that hasn't translated into a spot on the roster yet. The dude won the Outland and Rimmington. I expected a bit more than NFLE awards out of him. He's still got this year's training camp, so he hasn't failed yet...but he's obviously on the bubble right now. Do we keep guys for two years in NFLE? I think it's one isn't it? If so, then he's got one more shot before he's gone.

Also...the fact that he has good technical skills is actually working against him. That's the thing most O-line rookies lack...but since he's already got that the question is, how much more can he learn? If he's not physically capable of handling NFL tackles, and he doesn't have the frame to add weight and strength, his upside is basically limited to where he is right now. I hope I"m proven wrong but right now I think he's on the outside looking in. Corey Jackson won NFLE defensive MVP...how'd that work out?

most of the guys you listed off as examples played in NFLE! they turned out ok, didnt they? I'm well aware of how we select offensive lineman, and the process they go thru before they get a shot at playing. Just have a little confidence in the system the front office uses to develop these guys, it takes time, and with nalen coming back he doesnt need to be an all-pro this year. Eslinger is obviously improving, and there is a reason the team is keeping him around. I realize NFLE success does not always translate to the NFL, but if i have confidence in anything it is the Broncos ability to develop o-line talent. And in my opinion Eslinger is one of the better prospects they've had to work with in a while. He and Kuper will anchor the interior for years together.

Tom Nalen is listed at 6'3" 286 lbs, while Greg Eslinger is listed at 6'3" 290 lbs.-so i dont see where you get off saying his frame is holding him back. He has a pretty good build in my opinion, with the ability to get bigger(not much) and stronger(much).

And one last thing, how does your frame limit you from getting stronger! that doesnt even make sense...your frame can limit you from bulking up, but its possible to add strength while limiting bulk.

[chaz]

What's he done so far to deserve some?



what has kuper done to deserve everyone blowing their load whenever his name comes up? nothing...yet. but that doesnt stop people from seeing the potential.

what has hixon done....yet he is the new chuck norris. and any of the rookies this year? they haven't done anything either, but that doesnt stop people from getting excited about them. Just like i am excited about greg.

[Drek]

I would have bolded this part also...

...but that's just me. ;D
Why? Thats the assumption everyone already has and I'm presenting a counterpoint. I made sure to include it obviously, otherwise it'd be taking the piece out of context, but I pointed out the key part for my argument.


I don't get why this kid needs the NFLE anyway. He's not like Lepsis who played TE or Pears who lacked experience...especially in this system. Is he playing in a stretch zone scheme now? Who knows. Is he encountering NFL quality linemen? No...most of those guys won't make it. In fact his quality of competition in the Big 10 had more high quality D-line guys who will make NFL teams than NFLE does. Is he learning technique he didn't know? Doubtful...since he lacks size/strength but won the Outland and Rimmington you'd assume he did so on the basis of technique, meaning he's more polished already than most rookies in that department. Is he gaining weight/strength? Doubtful...you do that in the off season, not when you're playing. It seems like he'd be better off in Denver, pumping iron and downing protein shakes and being Tom Nalen's shadow.
This entire argument you make here is based on an inaccurate assumption and is why I posted the NFL scouting article. It clearly stated that when he plays with appropriate technique he has good enough strength to handle interior linemen. This is supported by his solid strength tests form the combine.

You say he doesn't have anything more to learn in regards to technique, but thats not the case. He played in a zone system in college that was tailor made to enable Minnesota's generally smaller and weaker OLs handle the high quality Big 10 DLs. How did it do this? The same way our team has done it for years, with shifts, movement, and smart zone assignments working together. As a result Eslinger developed into a finesse player.

To accurately judge Eslinger you need to read between the lines on the scouting reports. They don't say he's simply too small and in no way strong enough, they say that he plays too small and does not play strong enough. The implication there is that he does in fact have the size and strength (which measurements and strength tests verify) but that he doesn't show it on the field. This is due to lack of technique, hence what I bolded.

As a result NFLE is exactly where he should have gone. Throughout college he was not taught the power game of an interior lineman. His first year here he could only be taught so much due to a separated shoulder that landed him on the IR. Where could he learn the techniques of a traditional, non-zone lineman in regards to how one should use strength and size to consistently handle 300+ interior DLs? NFLE where teams don't play zone blocking schemes due to the short window of preparation they have.


I can't help but wonder if the guy won't be so exhausted from playing a whole NFLE season that he won't be able to compete in training camp for a roster spot. I'd love for him to come in and start showing us he's the next Nalen. I'm skeptical at this point though that he's any more than a guy looking at trying to avoid getting cut or maybe being a practice squad guy.
That never held back Hamilton, Lepsis, or Pears. NFLE doesn't have NFL level travel commitments and I doubt its much more grueling than training camps with our conditioning staff. I would argue that its in fact ideal from a conditioning standpoint for us to get him straight out of NFLE. We'll see him at playing weight so there is no potential for him to start out between 290-300 and then by mid-season be down to 280. What we see to start pre-season is what we get in terms of playing weight.

And then there are guys like Tyson Clabo who won similar awards in the NFLE and was cut that preseason. So it's really not a fair gauge. I don't think people realize what a small frame Eslinger has. There's a reason the guy with "all those awards" fell to the sixth round.
Clabo is a horrible example because he never spent a full season with Denver. We signed him in April '04, waived him in September, he then spent two weeks with the Giants, a little under a month with SD, was out of the league for two months, and then put on a future contract with us in December of his rookie year. He was on our roster just long enough to play in NFLE and get cut in September '05 and has since been kicking around with the Falcons. He did well in NFLE but he never got a real chance to learn our zone blocking scheme, largely because he didn't have the athleticism for it.

And the reason why a guy with "all those awards" fell to the sixth round is that he simply doesn't have traditional OL skills. He's very raw in terms of his man blocking ability, unless a team runs a zone blocking scheme (like us) you're basically getting a project player who doesn't present you with exceptional size or strength for C. Why would anyone other than ATL, GB, or us draft him? Both the Falcons and Packers had young starting Cs already so he fell into our laps.

[chaz]

And not a single team had him rated as such. It doesn't matter what the scouting report says. Every single team passed on him five or six times. In fact were it not for the zone teams, Eslinger wouldn't have even been drafted.

just because a team didnt select him in the third, doesnt mean they didnt have him rated as worthy of a third round pick. it comes down to team needs and team styles that allows them to choose between all the different prospects with the same round grade.

[chaz]

^^Great post Drek, a lot of great points.

[skpac1001]

Considering the way Shanny and Co has treated Greg so far, I would guess Shanny sees more in Greg then some of you, and at the very least I see Greg staying around another season or two as one of Shanny's patented project players.

[Kaylore]

just because a team didnt select him in the third, doesnt mean they didnt have him rated as worthy of a third round pick. it comes down to team needs and team styles that allows them to choose between all the different prospects with the same round grade.

Oh, so you're saying that he really was a third round center, but not one team needed one after the third round last year? Oh, ok.

And the reason why a guy with "all those awards" fell to the sixth round is that he simply doesn't have traditional OL skills. He's very raw in terms of his man blocking ability, unless a team runs a zone blocking scheme (like us) you're basically getting a project player who doesn't present you with exceptional size or strength for C. Why would anyone other than ATL, GB, or us draft him? Both the Falcons and Packers had young starting Cs already so he fell into our laps.

Or how about the reason he fell is his frame is small and there is no magical "bone growing juice" that will make his chest, arms and shoulders any bigger so he has virtually no upside!

[Inkana7]

Or how about the reason he fell is his frame is small and there is no magical "bone growing juice" that will make his chest, arms and shoulders any bigger so he has virtually no upside!

Nonsense!

http://www.beveragewarehouse.com/search/thumbnail.php?im=/home/beverage/public_html/images/products/6003.jpg

[Atlas]

Oh, so you're saying that he really was a third round center, but not one team needed one after the third round last year? Oh, ok.



Or how about the reason he fell is his frame is small and there is no magical "bone growing juice" that will make his chest, arms and shoulders any bigger so he has virtually no upside!

Eslinger will be just fine. He is the same size as both Nalen and Hamilton. His size excludes him from a lot of teams but not the Broncos.

[chaz]

Oh, so you're saying that he really was a third round center, but not one team needed one after the third round last year? Oh, ok.

I'm saying teams can recognize talent in a player without selecting them. Teams pass on players all the time that they have rated higher, because they need to fill a need at another position. If i remember correctly Shanahan said he was surprised Eslinger was still available in the sixth because they had him rated much higher than that.....but you're right, you know more than Shanahan and the front office....

[footstepsfrom#27]

most of the guys you listed off as examples played in NFLE!
Eh...that was my point. The other guys we've had playing over there were guys who seemed to need it because of lack of experience. But this guy's already played in this system and was voted college footballs best. What's he going to learn over there? He won't be playing against NFL quality talent and is he even playing in a stretch zone system?
Eslinger is obviously improving, and there is a reason the team is keeping him around.
How is it obvious he's improving? Because he was voted all scrub league? Remember Corey Jackson? NFLE devensive MVP...cut soon after. They're keeping him around because they can...simple as that. There's no reason to cut him when he can play over there. I don't know if that means they're enthralled with him or just hoping he improves.
I realize NFLE success does not always translate to the NFL, but if i have confidence in anything it is the Broncos ability to develop o-line talent. And in my opinion Eslinger is one of the better prospects they've had to work with in a while. He and Kuper will anchor the interior for years together.
It's not that "NFLE success does not ALWAYS translate to the NFL"...more like "RARELY does NFLE success translate to the NFL". Sure, we've had success with developing O-line guys (sometimes...see Foster) but that's partly because we have had a virtual monopoly on the market for talent under 300 pounds. Nobody else usually wants those guys so the ones that can play are still on the shelf in the 6th round.
Tom Nalen is listed at 6'3" 286 lbs, while Greg Eslinger is listed at 6'3" 290 lbs.-so i dont see where you get off saying his frame is holding him back. He has a pretty good build in my opinion, with the ability to get bigger(not much) and stronger(much).

And one last thing, how does your frame limit you from getting stronger! that doesnt even make sense...your frame can limit you from bulking up, but its possible to add strength while limiting bulk.
I don't think he's really 290...he looks more like 275. I question whether the roster weights are always accurate. And yes...some guys have the ability to get bigger/stronger more than others. He might be one who's as big as he's going to get.

[chaz]

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/attachment.php?attachmentid=19573&stc=1&d=1182513459
vs.
http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2006/0913/20060913_115902_sp14bnotes_400.jpg
you really see a big difference footsteps?

[footstepsfrom#27]

This entire argument you make here is based on an inaccurate assumption and is why I posted the NFL scouting article. It clearly stated that when he plays with appropriate technique he has good enough strength to handle interior linemen. This is supported by his solid strength tests form the combine.
"Adequate" is a term that seems to be used to describe "barely enough" in these scouting reports. It's not like they're raving over him is it?
You say he doesn't have anything more to learn in regards to technique, but thats not the case. He played in a zone system in college that was tailor made to enable Minnesota's generally smaller and weaker OLs handle the high quality Big 10 DLs. How did it do this? The same way our team has done it for years, with shifts, movement, and smart zone assignments working together. As a result Eslinger developed into a finesse player.
You're makiing my pont for me. He's already schooled in this system. What's he need NFLE for? He should be more ready than any lineman we've had here in 10 years, but he's not.
[qutoe]To accurately judge Eslinger you need to read between the lines on the scouting reports. They don't say he's simply too small and in no way strong enough, they say that he plays too small and does not play strong enough. The implication there is that he does in fact have the size and strength (which measurements and strength tests verify) but that he doesn't show it on the field. This is due to lack of technique, hence what I bolded.[/quote]
How can you attribute this to technique when he's already schooled in the same technique he needs here? If anything, technique is why he won the Outland. It certainly isn't because he dominated anyone with brute strength.
As a result NFLE is exactly where he should have gone. Throughout college he was not taught the power game of an interior lineman. His first year here he could only be taught so much due to a separated shoulder that landed him on the IR. Where could he learn the techniques of a traditional, non-zone lineman in regards to how one should use strength and size to consistently handle 300+ interior DLs? NFLE where teams don't play zone blocking schemes due to the short window of preparation they have.
What do you think he's going to be doing HERE? The same thing...finesse and zone blocking...so why is suddenly needing to learn something else when we use the same system he's used to? That makes no sense.
That never held back Hamilton, Lepsis, or Pears.
Lepsis didn't even play O-line in college, Pears wasn't nearly as experienced, and hadn't played in the SZB system, and Hamilton, IMO still has issues, especially with his pass blocking. None of those guys won the Outland and Rimmington did they? This guy got here more prepared than any of those guys...but where is he? Scrub league.
And the reason why a guy with "all those awards" fell to the sixth round is that he simply doesn't have traditional OL skills. He's very raw in terms of his man blocking ability, unless a team runs a zone blocking scheme (like us) you're basically getting a project player who doesn't present you with exceptional size or strength for C. Why would anyone other than ATL, GB, or us draft him? Both the Falcons and Packers had young starting Cs already so he fell into our laps.
I already said all this.

[chaz]

Eh...that was my point. The other guys we've had playing over there were guys who seemed to need it because of lack of experience. But this guy's already played in this system and was voted college footballs best. What's he going to learn over there? He won't be playing against NFL quality talent and is he even playing in a stretch zone system?

you obviously have very little faith in the broncos ability to develop offensive line talent....and thats fine, but i have a lot of confidence in them, especially after watching eslinger's success in minnesota for four years. I don't get how you can hold it against him that he was one of, if not the, most technically sound offensive lineman in the 06 draft...strength is so easily fixed especially when you have the work ethic that he does. hard work can make up for whatever "physical shortcomings" you can conceive.

How is it obvious he's improving? Because he was voted all scrub league? Remember Corey Jackson? NFLE devensive MVP...cut soon after. They're keeping him around because they can...simple as that. There's no reason to cut him when he can play over there. I don't know if that means they're enthralled with him or just hoping he improves.

d-line is a whole different story in denver than offensive line, so lets just focus on one side of the ball. offensive line has a history of success in europe, and have generally taken time to develop, so i dont see where your impatience is stemming from when this is typical of all up and coming prospects in the denver system. we don't need eslinger to step in this year, only to make strides towards playing down the road.

It's not that "NFLE success does not ALWAYS translate to the NFL"...more like "RARELY does NFLE success translate to the NFL". Sure, we've had success with developing O-line guys (sometimes...see Foster) but that's partly because we have had a virtual monopoly on the market for talent under 300 pounds. Nobody else usually wants those guys so the ones that can play are still on the shelf in the 6th round.

rarely applies to nfle players, EXCEPT the denver offensive linemen. Foster is the exact opposite of esllinger, in terms of size, experience, and work ethic. Just because no one else wants our linemen, doesnt make them any less talented for our system.

I don't think he's really 290...he looks more like 275. I question whether the roster weights are always accurate. And yes...some guys have the ability to get bigger/stronger more than others. He might be one who's as big as he's going to get.

you can say whatever you want, but you'll be wrong if you're callling him 275. You can look up what he weighed in at the combine, 286 if i remember correctly, and he has surely added weight/strength since then in the denver weights program. if 290 is all the bigger he is get, thats fine with me, that wont stop him from getting stronger and further refining his technique which i think he'll do.

as i said: believe what you want, but you heard it hear first-Eslinger will be the next Denver center after Nalen retires.

[chaz]

footsteps, you're not even making sense anymore. Just don't claim, "you knew it all along" when eslinger is starting on the line within the next couple years.

[Kaylore]

I'm saying teams can recognize talent in a player without selecting them. Teams pass on players all the time that they have rated higher, because they need to fill a need at another position. If i remember correctly Shanahan said he was surprised Eslinger was still available in the sixth because they had him rated much higher than that.....but you're right, you know more than Shanahan and the front office....

You find me that quote and then you can accuse me of "trying to know more than Shanahan".

[ward63]

I remember Shanahan saying that it was a decision he had to make between him and Kuper in the 5th round and was surprised to see Eslinger still there in the 6th.

[Requiem]

I remember Shanahan saying that it was a decision he had to make between him and Kuper in the 5th round and was surprised to see Eslinger still there in the 6th.

You're right on. I can also remember be vividly screaming in my old residence hall.

"WHAT THE ****, WHY NOT GREG." (Had seen Kuper play, but you know - Greg was rated a lot higher IMHO.)

But then Shanahan totally redeemed himself a round later.

I had ice cream to celebrate.

[rovolution]

You find me that quote and then you can accuse me of "trying to know more than Shanahan".

http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=334&storyID=5557

"Both Kuper and Eslinger are two guys that we were hoping would be there with our pick, and very seldom does that happen," Shanahan said. "A lot of times, you are hoping for a guy to be there and he's not there and you have to go with your second, third or fourth pick.

"We were hoping that one would be there in the fifth round and the other would be there in the sixth round and fortunately, both were there."



Heres something (im not trying to disprove you, i am merely providing some quotes regarding Eslinger Shanny made after the 2006 Draft.

[CHANGSTER]

Is anyone else worried that Oakland's just gonna swoop up any O lineman Den puts on the PS?

[wabbit]

I don't understand what the hang-up is with Eslinger.

The kid has all the skills...his size is adequate...not great, but hey, Nalen is no monster.

I know the coaches like Myers a lot, but this guy (Eslinger) looks every bit the real deal.

I understand the 'hunger' factor or whatever the ingredient is that makes a prospect like Lepsis work his way up from TE FA to starting L/R T...maybe that's where this kid falls short, but everything you read about him seems to indicate he is destined for good things.

This years' training camp should tell I suppose.

[footstepsfrom#27]

you obviously have very little faith in the broncos ability to develop offensive line talent....and thats fine, but i have a lot of confidence in them, especially after watching eslinger's success in minnesota for four years.
I'm not sure what his college success has to do with the Broncos ability to develop O-line guys, but as far as how I feel about Denver's ability to develop these guys...I actually I have a great deal of faith in that...you'd have to be an idiot not to notice that the leagues smallest O-line has powered the best rushing attack in the NFL for 12 years. But that does not mean I consider every prospect we bring in here as a future star, or even a player. Do these names ring a bell...Jamie Brown, Fritz Fuqueire, Leslie Ratliffe, Chris Banks, Trey Teague, Lennie Friedman, Ben Claxton, George Foster, and Josh Sewell?
I don't get how you can hold it against him that he was one of, if not the, most technically sound offensive lineman in the 06 draft...strength is so easily fixed especially when you have the work ethic that he does. hard work can make up for whatever "physical shortcomings" you can conceive.
I don't hold it against him. I'm simply saying that technique, just like any other attribute needed for success, can sometimes be developed to it's highest, or near highest...level of success when a player is still in college. Every year we hear about guys who have minimal upside because it's thought that they've topped out already. Case in point...Nebraska linemen for years were considered risks to already have their talent maxed out due to their tremendous weight program. My observation regarding Eslinger is that given the fact that this guy was 1) honored as college football's best offensive lineman, 2) played in a system almost exactly like Denver's in college, 3) was heralded as technincally extremely sound, and 4) for all intents and purposes, has been competing against guys for a roster spot who are virtually unknown and had minimal college success by comparison...it's a considerable surprise that he's the guy we chose to place in NFLE for developmental work. Kuper didn't even attend a Division 1 school, and not only is he here, he's pencilled in as a starter this year. If we were having this discussion prior to the 2006 draft and I told you who we would pick, and that one of our O-line choices would be starting within one year, and the other would be and NFLE guy...I bet 100% of you would have predicted this the other way around.
d-line is a whole different story in denver than offensive line, so lets just focus on one side of the ball. offensive line has a history of success in europe, and have generally taken time to develop, so i dont see where your impatience is stemming from when this is typical of all up and coming prospects in the denver system. we don't need eslinger to step in this year, only to make strides towards playing down the road.
Well we have 3 guys who went the NFLE route...who besides Lepsis, Hamilton and Pears have done so? Lepsis started only 16 games as a college tight end, and Pears was nowhere near as heralded as Eslinger at CSU. I can understand why both needed NFLE since neither was anywhere near where Eslinger was coming out. Hamilton is the lone player that seems to offer the most hope by way of comparison that the guy's is on the right track.
as i said: believe what you want, but you heard it hear first-Eslinger will be the next Denver center after Nalen retires.
Actually I've heard that long before now, and in fact I said the same thing when he was drafted. Somehow it's being twisted that I'm predicting failure for this guy...such is not the case...but I think it's time to ask whether he's really legit or not when he''s struggling against guys far less accomplilshed in college, and instead of competing here like you'd expect an Outland/Rimmington Trophy winner to do, he's so far been relegated to the devlopmental league...where most players go to get the skills he already has.

[Atlas]

I'm not sure what his college success has to do with the Broncos ability to develop O-line guys, but as far as how I feel about Denver's ability to develop these guys...I actually I have a great deal of faith in that...you'd have to be an idiot not to notice that the leagues smallest O-line has powered the best rushing attack in the NFL for 12 years. But that does not mean I consider every prospect we bring in here as a future star, or even a player. Do these names ring a bell...Jamie Brown, Fritz Fuqueire, Leslie Ratliffe, Chris Banks, Trey Teague, Lennie Friedman, Ben Claxton, George Foster, and Josh Sewell?
.

Trey Teague has had a very good career and Denver traded Brown to SF for a 2nd round pick. Lennie Friedman had a solid career.

[RunSilentRunDeep]

Trey Teague has had a very good career and Denver traded Brown to SF for a 2nd round pick. Lennie Friedman had a solid career.

I believe Brown was traded for a 4th-rounder and I know Lennie Friedman sucked. Teague was a very good late-round value.

[footstepsfrom#27]

I believe Brown was traded for a 4th-rounder and I know Lennie Friedman sucked. Teague was a very good late-round value.
Yeah...Friedman was a 2nd rounder who got 1 1/2 seasons as a starter...not exactly a good value. Teague started in 2001 and was then let go to Buffalo.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Friedman is still hanging around the league - Now with Cleveland. Not a stellar pick, but there have been many worse.

Guess there is a chance this will be the last year for NFLE.

I watched the first 3-4 series of the champ game this morning. Pretty sloppy.

[fontaine]

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/attachment.php?attachmentid=19573&stc=1&d=1182513459
vs.
http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2006/0913/20060913_115902_sp14bnotes_400.jpg
you really see a big difference footsteps?

Yeah I see a huge difference. The guy in the 2nd picture is a spineless quitter!

:yayaya:

[Atlas]

I believe Brown was traded for a 4th-rounder and I know Lennie Friedman sucked. Teague was a very good late-round value.

Brown was drafted in the 4th and traded to the 49ers for a 2nd. Friedman has been in the league now for 8 years he hardly sucks. Teague has been a starter for at least 4 of his years in the league. He would have been a good early round pick.

[Jens1893]

Friedman is still hanging around the league - Now with Cleveland. Not a stellar pick, but there have been many worse.

Guess there is a chance this will be the last year for NFLE.

I watched the first 3-4 series of the champ game this morning. Pretty sloppy.

I am not particularly high on the league myself and rarely watch it, but the NFL only recently gave the go ahead for another 4 or 5 years. Some NFL teams, among them Kansas City AFAIK, are pretty high on the league. They do want to expand and are thinking about having 2 divisions with proper playoffs. Peterson, who is one of the league´s biggest supporters, says every NFL franchise loses 500k-650k per season on the NFLE. Doesn´t seem like a whole lot to me when you consider the possibilities it offers to the NFL franchises. One bad FA signing or a bad draft choice costs the franchise more.