OT: Video game gets banned

[alkemical]

Video game gets banned (http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/fun.games/06/19/videogames.manhunt.reut/index.html)

LONDON, England (Reuters) -- British censors Tuesday banned a video game for the first time in 10 years, rejecting U.S.-published "Manhunt 2" for what they described as an unrelenting focus on sadism and brutal slaying.

The decision by the British Board of Film Classification, or BBFC, means the game, from publisher Take-Two Interactive Software, which made the controversial "Grand Theft Auto" series, cannot be legally supplied anywhere in Britain.

The ban prompted one U.S. family group to start lobbying for a rating to ensure major American retailers cannot sell the game. In it, players become an insane asylum escapee sneaking up on enemies and killing them in gruesome ways.

In a statement on the board's Web site, BBFC director David Cooke said rejecting a work was a very serious action and not taken lightly. He said the board preferred to consider cuts or changes but that was not possible in this case.

"'Manhunt 2' is distinguishable from recent high-end video games by its unremitting bleakness and callousness of tone in an overall game context which constantly encourages visceral killing with exceptionally little alleviation or distancing," he said.

"There is sustained and cumulative casual sadism in the way in which these killings are committed, and encouraged, in the game," Cooke said.

Take-Two could not immediately be reached for comment.

The BBFC noted it was the first game to be denied a classification since 1997, when "Carmageddon" was rejected for having players run down pedestrians. That decision was overturned on appeal.

The BBFC said the Take-Two label Rockstar Games that created "Manhunt" had the right to appeal the decision.

"Manhunt 2" is a follow-up to the 2003 original, which was classified in Britain for people aged 18 and over.

The original game created a storm in Britain in 2004 when the parents of a 14-year-old boy who was stabbed to death blamed the game for inspiring his 17-year-old killer.

The U.S. nongovernmental organization that evaluates games, the Entertainment Software Rating Board, has not yet given a rating for "Manhunt 2," which is slated for a July 10 release.

The Boston-based Campaign for a Commercial-Free Childhood urged people to write the ESRB and demand an "Adults Only" rating, which means it could not be sold by major retailers.

"An "Adults Only" rating is the only way to limit children's exposure to this unique combination of horrific violence and interactivity," group co-founder Susan Linn said in a statement.

Copyright 2007 Reuters. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

[vancejohnson82]

I'll admit Manhunt is a pretty sadistic game

You basically sneak up on peopel and murder them....

[alkemical]

I bought it in a bargin bin, and couldn't play more than 15-20min.

[RhymesayersDU]

This is becoming a big deal here in the states too. The AO rating is huge. Nintendo, on their website, even says they refuse to license or produce AO games, so the Wii version could get the axe.

However, it's my opinion that they'll tone it down to an M before it's all said and done. More money to be made that way.

[Garcia Bronco]

Good old censorship...this should be left up to parents in country and the market should dictate what should be sold IMO.

[SleepingTiger]

Good old censorship...this should be left up to parents in country and the market should dictate what should be sold IMO.


Too bad some parents don't even know where there kids are much less know what game they are playing in their room.

I played manhunt.... that game is sadistic.The concept of the game is good and I was exited when it came out. I couldn't play it for more than 2 hours. This game should be for ADULTS ONLY.

[Beantown Bronco]

This game should be for ADULTS ONLY.

You may want to just have them specify an age.....some would argue that, by definition, if you play video games then you are not really an adult to begin with. ;)

[GonzoLays]

Is there a correlation between our rising violent crime index in this country and our insatiable appetite for "entertainment violence"? Are we viewing TOO much violence for our own good?

In most states, total violent crimes have quadrupled (adjusted for population growth) since the 60's. Why are we becoming more violent?

[alkemical]

Remember - videogames, movies, music - reflect the culture - not just 'define & influence' it.

[SleepingTiger]

You may want to just have them specify an age.....some would argue that, by definition, if you play video games then you are not really an adult to begin with. ;)


Some of the game these days aren't made for children anymore and are made more for adults and should be specified as such. I would not want any of my children playing manhunt or any of the GTA and would be very pissed off if a store would sell it to them.

[GonzoLays]

Remember - videogames, movies, music - reflect the culture - not just 'define & influence' it.

explain

[Los Broncos]

Another game that is crazy is, Condemned: Criminal origins. i love it.

[BABronco]

explain

because they sell. they are what we want. why else would there be so many gta games? Why would they sell so good? There are many "friendly" games but do they sell as well, I presume not.

[Clockwork Orange]

I can't wait to play Manhunt 2, I loved the original.

[alkemical]

explain

As a poster listed below/above (depending on how you look at it)....

If there wasn't a market, it wouldn't sell. We have a very violent appitite, we like it, we love it - it's our entertainment.

[GonzoLays]

they are what we want.

Are you trying to say that you want violence? Is that it? You want to see a man beat a woman to death with a baseball bat after having sex with them like in Grand Theft Auto?

[GonzoLays]

As a poster listed below/above (depending on how you look at it)....

If there wasn't a market, it wouldn't sell. We have a very violent appitite, we like it, we love it - it's our entertainment.

why do you love it?

[Garcia Bronco]

Is there a correlation between our rising violent crime index in this country and our insatiable appetite for "entertainment violence"? Are we viewing TOO much violence for our own good?

In most states, total violent crimes have quadrupled (adjusted for population growth) since the 60's. Why are we becoming more violent?

Because there are to many of us occuping the same space and we're hearing more about this stuff from more mass media. Some of this stuff has always been going on.

[alkemical]

why do you love it?

I don't. but enough people do, don't they?

[GonzoLays]

Because there are to many of us occuping the same space

Don't you live in a house by yourself? Don't you drive your car to work by yourself? Don't you have your own office? What do you mean by "occupying the same space?"

[GonzoLays]

I don't. but enough people do, don't they?

Do they really have a choice? Throughout TV history, some of the most wholesome (relatively speaking), non-violent TV shows have been the most watched programs in America. Cheers, Mash, and the Cosby Show to name a few. Are we "demanding" more violence or are we being forced fed it?

[Garcia Bronco]

Don't you live in a house by yourself? Don't you drive your car to work by yourself? Don't you have your own office? What do you mean by "occupying the same space?"

To many people in one place creates friction and entrophy.

[GonzoLays]

To many people in one place creates friction and entrophy.

If that's the case, India should be the most violent country in the world -- by far. But they are not...

[alkemical]

Do they really have a choice? Throughout TV history, some of the most wholesome (relatively speaking), non-violent TV shows have been the most watched programs in America. Cheers, Mash, and the Cosby Show to name a few. Are we "demanding" more violence or are we being forced fed it?

People have freedom of choice, and yet they choose violence. Why are shows like 24 a hit, nypd, law & order, news, etc? Why is violent music a big seller? You've defeated your own argument. People chose nice shows, and people choose violent shows. Violence sells. If people didn't want it, it wouldn't sell.

[GonzoLays]

People have freedom of choice, and yet they choose violence. Why are shows like 24 a hit, nypd, law & order, news, etc? Why is violent music a big seller? You've defeated your own argument. People chose nice shows, and people choose violent shows. Violence sells. If people didn't want it, it wouldn't sell.

What is my argument? I didn't know I had one.

[Flex Gunmetal]

I'm sorry but the 'video games induce violence' argument is tired and unproven.
Banning it isn't the solution. It's up to the parents to moniter what kind of influences are reaching thier child, and determine if the child is mature enough to be subjected to them. My parents made sure I watched movies that were fitting to my age up to my teen years. Video games weren't an issue, we only had tecmo bowl and duck hunt.
I'm so tired of these meaningless witch hunts.

[GonzoLays]

I'm sorry but the 'video games induce violence' argument is tired and unproven.


What does induce violence?

[Flex Gunmetal]

What is my argument? I didn't know I had one.

It would appear your are dispaying your seemingly biased views in a series of rhetorical questions...or not.

[cutthemdown]

Good old censorship...this should be left up to parents in country and the market should dictate what should be sold IMO.

I agree. What's next do we say that a certain book is to graphic lets ban it. The problem lays not in the material that is objectionable but in the power of the censors. It may not be too bad when all that gets banned is an offensive video game. That's how it starts though, next it's offensive speech, movies, literature etc!!! I'm all for kids being denied access to offensive media but really who gets to decide what is offensive?

[GonzoLays]

It would appear your are dispaying your seemingly biased views in a series of rhetorical questions...or not.

Maybe you should look up the meaning of "rhetorical question" because I meant for all my questions to have answers to them.

[GonzoLays]

I agree. What's next do we say that a certain book is to graphic lets ban it. The problem lays not in the material that is objectionable but in the power of the censors. It may not be too bad when all that gets banned is an offensive video game. That's how it starts though, next it's offensive speech, movies, literature etc!!! I'm all for kids being denied access to offensive media but really who gets to decide what is offensive?

But if there are censors already present, then there is censorship. We have already lost, right?

[DBroncos4life]

they do studies to prove that games like this don't lead to others killing people. Its no different then the beavis and butthead cry. A couple kids do something that they see on tv or on a game isn't the problem. I'm sure you could place the blame in a number of areas from the parents on down. Does the game or tv help place the idea in the childs head? More often then not, but still its up to everyone around that child to teach them that its not real. Many of us played games or watched bad shows growing up and I doubt many of us acted them out because we got taught better then that.

[Flex Gunmetal]

Maybe you should look up the meaning of "rhetorical question" because I meant for all my questions to have answers to them.

I know exactly what it means. It just came off like you were trying stir up the pot rather than asking genuine questions in search of a sincere answer.

[alkemical]

What is my argument? I didn't know I had one.

Well then, there's no point to continue talking to you is there.

[Garcia Bronco]

But if there are censors already present, then there is censorship. We have already lost, right?

In essense we have. The FCC is not an elected body of governemnt yet they enact laws and enforce them.

[GonzoLays]

Well then, there's no point to continue talking to you is there.

I'm still waiting for you tell me what my argument was. You said I defeated it...so what did I defeat? This should be interesting.

[Flex Gunmetal]

What does induce violence?

Since this is obviously not a rhetorical question, allow me to direct you to www.google.com to begin your research, as I am not a neurologist or psychiatrist.

[alkemical]

I'm still waiting for you tell me what my argument was. You said I defeated it...so what did I defeat? This should be interesting.

Sorry, i won't help your trolling causes anymore today. Have a good day.

[GonzoLays]

You guys do know that American Medical Association treats media violence as a public health issue? You know that, right? you know that they concluded that after 30 years of research, children watching entertainment violence increases aggressive values and behavior

Or is everyone still on the denial and naive train?

[alkemical]

I think i might make tamales tonight for dinner

[GonzoLays]

Sorry, i won't help your trolling causes anymore today. Have a good day.

The pothead in you is coming out. Don't give up so easily... you can do it.

[alkemical]

Why bother, you are just trolling. You admitted you dont' have an argument or a point in the discussion. Maybe it's just the asshole in you coming out.

[RkyMtnThunder]

Hmmm

I enjoy video games, but honestly havent heard of this title until today. Game sounds fun! (more into RTS, RPG and sports games)

Nothing quite like a ban for excellent free marketing & publicity! Just ask 2 Live Crew!

[GonzoLays]

Why bother, you are just trolling. You admitted you dont' have an argument or a point in the discussion. Maybe it's just the a-hole in you coming out.

You are the one that said I defeated my own argument and I am wondering what I defeated? Just tell me.

[GonzoLays]

Does a kid who watches his father beat his mother all the time induce violent behavior in the child despite not getting beaten himself?

[Flex Gunmetal]

You guys do know that American Medical Association treats media violence as a public health issue? You know that, right? you know that they concluded that after 30 years of research, children watching entertainment violence increases aggressive values and behavior

Or is everyone still on the denial and naive train?

Or are you just having a problem understanding the discussion?
Should this game be banned? No. Could it possibly contribute to violent tendencies among the youth? Maybe. Is the underlying message here that parents should moniter what media their children are paying attention to? Yes.
Ban the half-ass parents, not the game.

[Flex Gunmetal]

Does a kid who watches his father beat his mother all the time induce violent behavior in the child despite not getting beaten himself?

Is this an irrelevant post?

[Garcia Bronco]

Does a kid who watches his father beat his mother all the time induce violent behavior in the child despite not getting beaten himself?

It could.

[GonzoLays]

Or are you just having a problem understanding the discussion?
Should this game be banned? No. Could it possibly contribute to violent tendencies among the youth? Maybe. Is the underlying message here that parents should moniter what media their children are paying attention to? Yes.
Ban the half-ass parents, not the game.

I'm sorry but the 'video games induce violence' argument is tired and unproven.

Durrrr...

[GonzoLays]

It could.

Why is that?

[Flex Gunmetal]

Durrrr...

What?

[edgemyster]

You guys do know that American Medical Association treats media violence as a public health issue? You know that, right? you know that they concluded that after 30 years of research, children watching entertainment violence increases aggressive values and behavior. Or is everyone still on the denial and naive train?

That could very well be true. And why wouldn't it be?

You can take most individuals and influence their tendencies by increasing their exposure to any number of factors over a given time. For example, some of our parents (probably very few of us here) instilled "manners" (the act of being polite) into our our daily regimen by influencing our actions through repetition. The same goes for developing skills. For example, if you expose yourself to the teaching of leadership skills, it's very likely you will become more inline with what actions are required to be perceived as a good leader. You may KNOW what it takes, but ACTING on that knowledge is wholly separate. That's where you draw the line.

Whether you choose to cross the line from one side to the other is based on a separate element of knowledge. That is one's fundamental understanding of what is right and wrong. Acting on your knowledge of being polite or demonstrating leadership skills is RIGHT. Knowing that people commonly die when hit by a bus at high speeds becomes common knowledge and acting upon it, as you might have guessed, is WRONG.

Going back to your point about the American Medical Assoc. treating media violence as a public health issue: I see that as an interesting observation, but it doesn't much imply a response that censorship of that media is a solution. Cigarettes are a health issue. So is alcohol. All things that are available to everyone, but require self control and parental discretion.

Censorship of anything is not a solution, particularly when there is a deeper issue with an indivudals ability to differentiate healthy from unhealthy; right from wrong. This solution rests on the shoulders of parents/guardians to provide a varying degree of repetitive influence over behavior until it sinks in with that particular person. Unfortunately, in some cases people possess an inability to perceive right from wrong or have no self-control over their actions.... and you get sociopaths or serial killers. Censorship wouldn't have helped them either.

For the record, I love video games (most of which are violent) & I have two very young children. The responsibility with regards to this topic and their eventual exposure to it shoud lie completely on my shoulders, not the gov't or anyone else.

[Beantown Bronco]

Does a kid who watches his father beat his mother all the time induce violent behavior in the child despite not getting beaten himself?

Eh, she probably deserved it....

[GonzoLays]

Going back to your point about the American Medical Assoc. treating media violence as a public health issue: I see that as an interesting observation, but it doesn't much imply a response that censorship of that media is a solution.

I never said that censorship was the answer or a solution to the problem of media violence. What you can infer from my posts is that I'm not with the line of thinking that repeated viewing of violence can be categorized as a "fart in the wind" if you will.

[edgemyster]

Right, I know you didn't imply censorship was the solution. But going back to the original article, that's the resolution being served up by a major nation which is what I was referring to in light of the AMA's findings being perceived as possibly supporting that action.

[GonzoLays]

Right, I know you didn't imply censorship was the response. But going back to the original article, that's the resolution being served up by a major nation which is what I was referring to in light of the AMA's findings being perceived as possibly supporting that action.

Most of my posts were a response to the following post:

I'm sorry but the 'video games induce violence' argument is tired and unproven.

In the rest, I just asked questions. Some posters said that they "love" violence. I just wondered why.

[Garcia Bronco]

Eh, she probably deserved it....

Perhaps...depends. I recently went back to richmond, va to visit home. I go to a firends house and there is a woman, his neighbor, sitting on her porch borrowing my friend's phone. Her boyfriend had gotten to slapping her around. As concerned people we told her she need ot call the police and file a report. she said she loved him and she couldn't do that.

what do you say to that?

We basically gave her the tough love end of it...then he's going to keep beating you and you'll have no one to blame but yourself for allowing it to happen. Courage is not the absence of fear, but fear's presence and the willingness to move on.

[Northman]

What does induce violence?

Human Emotion.

[Tredici]

We basically gave her the tough love end of it...then he's going to keep beating you and you'll have no one to blame but yourself for allowing it to happen.

It's always amused me that we have solutions for the Battered Woman Syndrome but no one mentions the REAL problem. The Battering Man Syndrome. I mean, no sense putting the blame where it really lies. The victim is such an easier fix. Just leave. What could be easier?

[Flex Gunmetal]

Durrrr...
What?

.

[GonzoLays]

Right, I know you didn't imply censorship was the solution. But going back to the original article, that's the resolution being served up by a major nation which is what I was referring to in light of the AMA's findings being perceived as possibly supporting that action.

With the rate of growth of violent media in all categories of digital entertainment, how far do you see the violence going? If beating a woman to death after sexing her in a video game is accepted today, then there is conceivably no boundary to the sadistic displays of over-the-top violence.

As some posters have pointed out, they "crave" violence so whatever is put on their plate, they will happily consume; they truly don't decide for themselves in this matter. When is the last time you heard teenage kids not playing a game because it was "too violent?"

[Northman]

they do studies to prove that games like this don't lead to others killing people. Its no different then the beavis and butthead cry. A couple kids do something that they see on tv or on a game isn't the problem. I'm sure you could place the blame in a number of areas from the parents on down. Does the game or tv help place the idea in the childs head? More often then not, but still its up to everyone around that child to teach them that its not real. Many of us played games or watched bad shows growing up and I doubt many of us acted them out because we got taught better then that.


Great point. Reminds me of the whole " Bowling for Columbine " movie in which Fatass was trying to imply that bullets kill people when in reality people kill people. The bullet is just a object used to cause harm to another individual or individuals.

[Northman]

With the rate of growth of violent media in all categories of digital entertainment, how far do you see the violence going? If beating a woman to death after sexing her in a video game is accepted today, then there is conceivably no boundary to the sadistic displays of over-the-top violence.

As some posters have pointed out, they "crave" violence so whatever is put on their plate, they will happily consume; they truly don't decide for themselves in this matter. When is the last time you heard teenage kids not playing a game because it was "too violent?"


Who Cares? As long as they can distinguish between reality and fiction it is harmless.

[GonzoLays]

It's always amused me that we have solutions for the Battered Woman Syndrome but no one mentions the REAL problem. The Battering Man Syndrome. I mean, no sense putting the blame where it really lies. The victim is such an easier fix. Just leave. What could be easier?

Do you believe man and woman were created equal? One is not better than the other?

[GonzoLays]

And I present to you, exhibit A of "fart in the wind" thinking:

Who Cares? As long as they can distinguish between reality and fiction it is harmless.

[Northman]

And I present to you, exhibit A of "fart in the wind" thinking:

Are you telling me you cant distinguish between fiction and reality? :rofl:

[GonzoLays]

Are you telling me you cant distinguish between fiction and reality? :rofl:

I don't understand your question in the context you are presenting it. Please elaborate.

[Garcia Bronco]

It's always amused me that we have solutions for the Battered Woman Syndrome but no one mentions the REAL problem. The Battering Man Syndrome. I mean, no sense putting the blame where it really lies. The victim is such an easier fix. Just leave. What could be easier?

I don't know about all situations...but this one...the guy hasn't worked in 4 years...he's a sponge...all she has to do is pick up and go. Bottom line..if someone serves you up a bowl of ****...there is no sense in asking for seconds. Obviously the guy is the problem...but since she won't do anything about it...well.....

[Tredici]

Do you believe man and woman were created equal? One is not better than the other?

Yes. But what I believe isn't really relevent is it?

[Northman]

I don't understand your question in the context you are presenting it. Please elaborate.



Not surprising. You seemed to have a problem with my prior statement and classified it as a " fart in the wind " thinking. So that only tells me that you disagree with my statement and that you believe that it is untrue. If you do disagree with it then explain why?

[GonzoLays]

Not surprising. You seemed to have a problem with my prior statement and classified it as a " fart in the wind " thinking. So that only tells me that you disagree with my statement and that you believe that it is untrue. If you do disagree with it then explain why?

Yes, understood. So please elaborate on your "reality V. fiction" question.

[GonzoLays]

Yes. But what I believe isn't really relevent is it?

That might be too deep for me. If what you believe is irrelevant, then all beliefs by all human beings is irrelevant.

[Northman]

Yes, understood. So please elaborate on your "reality V. fiction" question.


Nicole Brown Murdered ( Reality )
Girl killed in video game ( Fiction )

Cant really spell it out for you any easier than that man.

[GonzoLays]

Nicole Brown Murdered ( Reality )
Girl killed in video game ( Fiction )

Cant really spell it out for you any easier than that man.

What are you asking again?

[Northman]

And I present to you, exhibit A of "fart in the wind" thinking:


Explain this and then ill know what YOUR getting at.

[Requiem]

This game looks like ****.

[GonzoLays]

Explain this and then ill know what YOUR getting at.

Yes, very simple, you said video game violence is harmless.

[Northman]

Yes, very simple, you said video game violence is harmless.


And you think its not? Explain.

[Requiem]

Anubis, Gonzo is worried that after his actions on this board - people who are into these games might hunt him down and find him.

[GonzoLays]

And you think its not? Explain.

What is there to explain? Have you not read the research on this subject?

What is taking so long to answer, Anubis? Ransacking the web trying to find an answer? Good luck with that, ol' boy.

[Flex Gunmetal]

Yes, very simple, you said video game violence is harmless.

Is it not?

[GonzoLays]

Is it not?

Are you qualified and intelligent enough to refute the American Medical Association's 30 years of research on the subject?

[Bronco_Beerslug]

We basically gave her the tough love end of it...then he's going to keep beating you and you'll have no one to blame but yourself for allowing it to happen. Courage is not the absence of fear, but fear's presence and the willingness to move on.Is that a quote from the military school you attended or something?

[Northman]

What is there to explain? Have you not read the research on this subject?


Research on what? Game violence? Does it say that every child that plays a violent video game will commit acts of violence in society? If not, than the research is flawed just like your logic. My nephew has been playing violent video games since he was 8 and gets straight A's in school and is a great kid. Thats all i need to know when it comes to video game violence. Games, music, movies arent the problem, poor parenting is.

[cutthemdown]

But if there are censors already present, then there is censorship. We have already lost, right?

There is a lot of censorship already for sure. I don't think we have totally lost however. I think censorship is one of those things that we have to fight for at every turn. If we don't then we will wake up someday and find way too many things have been censored. We fight censorship and in the end I think we will end up with the marketplace of ideas that the Supreme Court talked about in the 1967 decision in Keyishian v. Board of Regents.

[Garcia Bronco]

Is that a quote from the military school you attended or something?

I think I read it on a cereal box.

[cutthemdown]

Research on what? Game violence? Does it say that every child that plays a violent video game will commit acts of violence in society? If not, than the research is flawed just like your logic. My nephew has been playing violent video games since he was 8 and gets straight A's in school and is a great kid. Thats all i need to know when it comes to video game violence. Games, music, movies arent the problem, poor parenting is.

I agree that it would take a mentally ill person to be turned crazy by a video game. 99.9 percent of the time it's probably the parenting.

[GonzoLays]

My nephew has been playing violent video games since he was 8 and gets straight A's in school and is a great kid. Thats all i need to know when it comes to video game violence.

Well there you have it, folks. Video game violence is harmless. American Medical Association, put that in your pipe and smoke it!!

[Northman]

Why taking so long to respond Gonzo? Trying to get your head out of your ass again?

[Northman]

I agree that it would take a mentally ill person to be turned crazy by a video game. 99.9 percent of the time it's probably the parenting.

Exactly my point. People who cannot distinguish between fantasy and reality would most likely do destructive things. But with good parenting and guidance for any normal kid they will not become violent from playing video games.

[Flex Gunmetal]

Are you qualified and intelligent enough to refute the American Medical Association's 30 years of research on the subject?

I have not seen the research, but I doubt I am.
However, do you have any opinion or contribution regarding the story at hand other than claiming the results of studies without posting the studies or any resources?

[Flex Gunmetal]

Exactly my point. People who cannot distinguish between fantasy and reality would most likely do destructive things. But with good parenting and guidance for any normal kid they will not become violent from playing video games.

Exactly!

[snowspot66]

Video games became popular in the late 70s and early 80s. They became mainstream in the mid to late 90's. Now this isn't meant to show a direct cause relationship but violent crime rates dipped in the early to mid 80s with a jump in the early 90s and a drastic decline since 94/95 that as recently as 2004 put them around 1970 levels.

This doesn't mean video games were the cause for the reduced crime rates but it does show that the increasing violent nature and popularity of many of the AAA titles on the market doesn't seem to fit the argument that violent video games are producing violent kids and boosting crime rates along with it.

Really only a small fraction of video games would truely be called "violent" by todays standards. Granted these are the ones that sell better but they also have higher production values and better marketing campaigns. They don't sell better just because they are violent. They sell better because developers and distributors are more able to produce a better product and convince people to buy it.

I would say that the effect of violent media does not increase crime but may create "copy cat" criminals. Kids already predisposed to doing something violent getting ideas from the media they listen to or view. This of course gets blown completely out of proportion by politicians and news media in an attempt to scare people for votes and ratings.

As soon as some publicized violent crime happens and it gets linked to video games in any way that asshat Jack Thompson is on tv proclaiming video games the end of civilization and old Joe Leiberman in Washington DC quickly follows suit.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/viort.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States

[Flex Gunmetal]

Very interesting.

[GonzoLays]

But with good parenting and guidance for any normal kid they will not become violent from playing video games.

So you agree that violent video games causes kids to be violent...but you need good parenting to offset it.

THE GREAT GONZOLAYS!!!!!!

[Northman]

Video games became popular in the late 70s and early 80s. They became mainstream in the mid to late 90's. Now this isn't meant to show a direct cause relationship but violent crime rates dipped in the early to mid 80s with a jump in the early 90s and a drastic decline since 94/95 that as recently as 2004 put them around 1970 levels.

This doesn't mean video games were the cause for the reduced crime rates but it does show that the increasing violent nature and popularity of many of the AAA titles on the market doesn't seem to fit the argument that violent video games are producing violent kids and boosting crime rates along with it.

Really only a small fraction of video games would truely be called "violent" by todays standards. Granted these are the ones that sell better but they also have higher production values and better marketing campaigns. They don't sell better just because they are violent. They sell better because developers and distributors are more able to produce a better product and convince people to buy it.

I would say that the effect of violent media does not increase crime but may create "copy cat" criminals. Kids already predisposed to doing something violent getting ideas from the media they listen to or view. This of course gets blown completely out of proportion by politicians and news media in an attempt to scare people for votes and ratings.

As soon as some publicized violent crime happens and it gets linked to video games in any way that asshat Jack Thompson is on tv proclaiming video games the end of civilization and old Joe Leiberman in Washington DC quickly follows suit.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/viort.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States



Spot on. Rep

[RkyMtnThunder]

Research on what? Game violence? Does it say that every child that plays a violent video game will commit acts of violence in society? If not, than the research is flawed just like your logic. My nephew has been playing violent video games since he was 8 and gets straight A's in school and is a great kid. Thats all i need to know when it comes to video game violence. Games, music, movies arent the problem, poor parenting is.

And this coming from a death metal fan....

just another example of how media; music, movies, video games is NOT as big a catalyst of human behavior as some would like us to think it is.

Perhaps when it comes to things like fashion and trends - one could make a case of 'monkey see, monkey do' with media influences.... but its a stretch to imply that I or someone else might decide to go on a murderous rampage after playing Manhunt 2

If anyone does go on a murderous rampage, I am sure there are other factors in that person outside of video games, mob movies, death metal, gansta rap or other scapegoat that caused them to act out in such ways

All this 'ban' does for me is make me want to buy the game and see what all the fuss is about. I am sure the game developers are pleased with the free advertising.

[Northman]

So you agree that video games causes kids to be violent...but you need good parenting to offset it.

THE GREAT GONZOLAYS!!!!!!


Yep, it may cause kids with any kind of mental disease to become violent hence the initial post i made regarding the fiction vs Reality subject. Pretty sad that it took you this long to understand it. The Great Gonzo ladies and Gents, stay tuned as i make him do more tricks for you! :rofl:

[GonzoLays]

Yep, it may cause kids with any kind of mental disease to become violent hence the initial post i made regarding the fiction vs Reality subject. Pretty sad that it took you this long to understand it. The Great Gonzo ladies and Gents, stay tuned as i make him do more tricks for you! :rofl:

That is quite broad, don't you think? Fiction V. reality? What does that really mean? How is witnessing a neighbor get violently murdered across the street from your house any different from watching killing on a TV screen? Psychologically speaking, of course.

[Northman]

And this coming from a death metal fan....

just another example of how media; music, movies, video games is NOT as big a catalyst of human behavior as some would like us to think it is.

Perhaps when it comes to things like fashion and trends - one could make a case of 'monkey see, monkey do' with media influences.... but its a stretch to imply that I or someone else might decide to go on a murderous rampage after playing Manhunt 2

If anyone does go on a murderous rampage, I am sure there are other factors in that person outside of video games, mob movies, death metal, gansta rap or other scapegoat that caused them to act out in such ways

All this 'ban' does for me is make me want to buy the game and see what all the fuss is about. I am sure the game developers are pleased with the free advertising.


Exactly. I listen to violent music from time to time and have been into rock/metal since the age of 5 yet ironically im no mass murderer or spending my days in a prison for some other crime. Any issues i ever did have with the law were my own doing, nothing more.

[Garcia Bronco]

Video games became popular in the late 70s and early 80s. They became mainstream in the mid to late 90's. Now this isn't meant to show a direct cause relationship but violent crime rates dipped in the early to mid 80s with a jump in the early 90s and a drastic decline since 94/95 that as recently as 2004 put them around 1970 levels.

This doesn't mean video games were the cause for the reduced crime rates but it does show that the increasing violent nature and popularity of many of the AAA titles on the market doesn't seem to fit the argument that violent video games are producing violent kids and boosting crime rates along with it.

Really only a small fraction of video games would truely be called "violent" by todays standards. Granted these are the ones that sell better but they also have higher production values and better marketing campaigns. They don't sell better just because they are violent. They sell better because developers and distributors are more able to produce a better product and convince people to buy it.

I would say that the effect of violent media does not increase crime but may create "copy cat" criminals. Kids already predisposed to doing something violent getting ideas from the media they listen to or view. This of course gets blown completely out of proportion by politicians and news media in an attempt to scare people for votes and ratings.

As soon as some publicized violent crime happens and it gets linked to video games in any way that asshat Jack Thompson is on tv proclaiming video games the end of civilization and old Joe Leiberman in Washington DC quickly follows suit.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/viort.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States

end of thread

[Flex Gunmetal]

That is quite broad, don't you think? Fiction V. reality? What does that really mean? How is witnessing a neighbor get violently murdered across the street from your house any different from watching killing on a TV screen? Psychologically speaking, of course.

This proposition is rediculous and you are getting dominated in this thread.

[GonzoLays]

This proposition is rediculous and you are getting dominated in this thread.

How so?

[Northman]

That is quite broad, don't you think? Fiction V. reality? What does that really mean? How is witnessing a neighbor get violently murdered across the street from your house any different from watching killing on a TV screen?


Vastly different.

[RkyMtnThunder]

LOL



Whats the difference? Are you serious?


I dunno...but I am pretty sure no one has ever suffered PTSD from watching a violent video game as opposed to witnessing a murder!

[Flex Gunmetal]

How so?

You keep claiming your point based on this alleged study. When asked to present the study or some resources backing up your claims you fail to do so and another member posts information refuting your claims, at least to a point.

Also, I shouldn't have to explain why your question is rediculous.
Unless you are completely dense.

[mosca]

Or are you just having a problem understanding the discussion?
Should this game be banned? No. Could it possibly contribute to violent tendencies among the youth? Maybe. Is the underlying message here that parents should moniter what media their children are paying attention to? Yes.
Ban the half-ass parents, not the game.
If only we -could- ban half-ass parents. That would solve a lot of today's societal problems. Sadly, that cannot be done, and that's why certain people will continue to call for controls on violent games. It's an easier solution.

I am 100% against censorship, but the existence of these kinds of games does concern me. I've played video games my whole life, but the games now are so much more realistic than the games back then, and will continue that trend even more as technology improves. When everyone was playing Sega Genesis and Super Nintendo games the reality vs. fantasy divide was much easier to notice...most games, even ones that attempted to be realistic, were pretty cartoonish. Now we've got violent games that resemble something like the movie Saw or Scarface. Add to that the fact that more and more parents aren't as involved with their children's lives, and this creates a problem.

[Northman]

If only we -could- ban half-ass parents. That would solve a lot of today's societal problems. Sadly, that cannot be done, and that's why certain people will continue to call for controls on violent games. It's an easier solution.

I am 100% against censorship, but the existence of these kinds of games does concern me. I've played video games my whole life, but the games now are so much more realistic than the games back then, and will continue that trend even more as technology improves. When everyone was playing Sega Genesis and Super Nintendo games the reality vs. fantasy divide was much easier to notice...most games, even ones that attempted to be realistic, were pretty cartoonish. Now we've got violent games that resemble something like the movie Saw or Scarface. Add to that the fact that more and more parents aren't as involved with their children's lives, and this creates a problem.


But even with all that there are a lot of other circumstances that are involved with a kid or adult who takes the game to another level. To believe that people just start acting out after playing a video game is ridiculous. You get people all the time trying to blame video games, music, and movies as their reasons for committing a crime. And why is that? Because society has taught them that blaming someone else for your mistakes is easier than being accountable. Look no further than current athletes who are continuously getting in trouble with the law. There's always someone else to blame for their behavior which is ridiculous.

[mosca]

But even with all that there are a lot of other circumstances that are involved with a kid or adult who takes the game to another level. To believe that people just start acting out after playing a video game is ridiculous. You get people all the time trying to blame video games, music, and movies as their reasons for committing a crime. And why is that? Because society has taught them that blaming someone else for your mistakes is easier than being accountable. Look no further than current athletes who are continuously getting in trouble with the law. There's always someone else to blame for their behavior which is ridiculous.
Very true... blame for any behavior rests solely on the invidual. And I don't think anyone really just starts spontaneously acting out after playing a violent game.

What I do think has an effect is repeated exposure to violent games, movies, music, violent behavior etc. coupled with an absence of proper parental guidance. Over a prolonged period of time this could definitely have an effect on children, particularly younger ones. I don't mean to say that violent media is the only scapegoat here... just one of the many negative influences that many unlucky children suffer through today.

[RkyMtnThunder]

But even with all that there are a lot of other circumstances that are involved with a kid or adult who takes the game to another level. To believe that people just start acting out after playing a video game is ridiculous. You get people all the time trying to blame video games, music, and movies as their reasons for committing a crime. And why is that? Because society has taught them that blaming someone else for your mistakes is easier than being accountable. Look no further than current athletes who are continuously getting in trouble with the law. There's always someone else to blame for their behavior which is ridiculous.

Oooohhhh yeah

Reminds me of that Ozzy case back in the 80's when he was being blamed that his song Suicide Solution was the reason some kid killed himself.

Parents apparently couldnt come to terms with the fact their kid was so miserable he offed himself and tried to sue Ozzy for it

[Northman]

Very true... blame for any behavior rests solely on the invidual. And I don't think anyone really just starts spontaneously acting out after playing a violent game.

What I do think has an effect is repeated exposure to violent games, movies, music, violent behavior etc. coupled with an absence of proper parental guidance. Over a prolonged period of time this could definitely have an effect on children, particularly younger ones. I don't mean to say that violent media is the only scapegoat here... just one of the many negative influences that many unlucky children suffer through today.


Agreed.

[Tredici]

That might be too deep for me. If what you believe is irrelevant, then all beliefs by all human beings is irrelevant.

Not necessarily. I believe there is a balance between the sexes. Both roles are equally important. Doesn't matter. The collective will form the society. In that matter individual beliefs are irrelevent. Not to say one can't make an impact, but the herd mentality will eventually be the decisive voice.

[Tredici]

While I completely agree proper parental guidance is a huge part of this discussion I also wonder why corporate behavior isn't questioned also. While saying behavior is the responsibility of the individual, which it is, the corporation allows individuals to completely abandon human dignity in designing these mindlessly, senseless and violent images for the express purpose of marketing them to kids. Personally, I believe our moral values in this country have shifted from right and wrong to profitable or non profitable. If it makes money, it is not only to be acceptable but revered. If something is a bust, no matter how good the intent, it is to be scorned and ridiculed.

It's the ching ching society. And corporations are to feed the money machine so all individual behavior is excused as long as the bank is fed.

[RhymesayersDU]

I haven't followed this argument beyond the first page, but I found this on another board, take it for what it's worth:

If you're squeamish don't read on, you've been warned...

The ultra-violent videogame Manhunt 2 allows you to rape a woman shortly after you beheaded her in the brothel level called Honey Pot. Members of the ESRB were shocked when Daniel Lamb used his male reproduction organ and simulated a penetration in the bloody hole. Other gruesome parts include microwaving a living cat to death and being a witness of necrophilia in a cemetery in one of the later stage of the game.


So there you have it, stop defending them, Rockstar are sick in the head and left everyone no choice but to ban this game from the depths of Hades.

No link but I found it here

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=164919&page=7

[Northman]

While I completely agree proper parental guidance is a huge part of this discussion I also wonder why corporate behavior isn't questioned also. While saying behavior is the responsibility of the individual, which it is, the corporation allows individuals to completely abandon human dignity in designing these mindlessly, senseless and violent images for the express purpose of marketing them to kids. Personally, I believe our moral values in this country have shifted from right and wrong to profitable or non profitable. If it makes money, it is not only to be acceptable but revered. If something is a bust, no matter how good the intent, it is to be scorned and ridiculed.

It's the ching ching society. And corporations are to feed the money machine so all individual behavior is excused as long as the bank is fed.

Capitolism, its the american way. In some ways its a good thing and in others its a bad thing. Either way, its how america thrives and seperates itself from other countries. Your dead on with your comments.