Are you freaking KIDDING ME?

[footstepsfrom#27]

Just saw this on CNN...absolutely OUTRAGEOUS. I hope somebody gets prosecuted for this. How many lawyers are lining up for this as we speak? I'll bet it's at least 20. Thankfully, the feds are now involved.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/06/13/hospitaldeath.probe.ap/

Tape: 911 operators did little to help dying woman in ER

POSTED: 10:58 a.m. EDT, June 13, 2007
Story Highlights• Authorities in California probing death of bleeding woman in emergency room
• 911 operators wouldn't call paramedics because she was already in hospital
• Police asked to help woman arrested her instead, relatives say
• Hospital's chief medical officer placed on ordered leave

LOS ANGELES, California (AP) -- A woman who lay bleeding on the emergency room floor of a troubled inner-city hospital died after 911 dispatchers refused to contact paramedics or an ambulance to take her to another facility, newly released tapes of the emergency calls reveal.

Edith Isabel Rodriguez, 43, died of a perforated bowel on May 9 at Martin Luther King Jr.-Harbor Hospital. Her death was ruled accidental by the Los Angeles County coroner's office.

Relatives said Rodriguez was bleeding from the mouth and writhing in pain for 45 minutes while she was at a hospital waiting area. Experts have said she could have survived had she been treated early enough.

County and state authorities are now investigating Rodriguez's death. Relatives reported she died as police were wheeling her out of the hospital after the officers they had asked to help Rodriguez arrested her instead on a parole violation. Sheriff's Department spokesman Duane Allen said Wednesday that the investigation is ongoing.

In the recordings of two 911 calls that day, first obtained by the Los Angeles Times under a California Public Records Act request, callers pleaded for help for Rodriguez but were referred to hospital staff instead.

"I'm in the emergency room. My wife is dying and the nurses don't want to help her out," Rodriguez's boyfriend, Jose Prado, is heard saying in Spanish through an interpreter on the tapes.

"What's wrong with her?" a female dispatcher asked.

"She's vomiting blood," Prado said.

"OK, and why aren't they helping her?" the dispatcher asked.

"They're watching her there and they're not doing anything. They're just watching her," Prado said.

The dispatcher told Prado to contact a doctor and then said paramedics wouldn't pick her up because she was already in a hospital. She later told him to contact county police officers at a security desk.

A second 911 call was placed eight minutes later by a bystander who requested that an ambulance be sent to take Rodriguez to another hospital for care.

"She's definitely sick and there's a guy that's ignoring her," the woman told a male dispatcher.

During the call, the dispatcher argued with the woman over whether there really was an emergency.

"I cannot do anything for you for the quality of the hospital. ... It is not an emergency. It is not an emergency ma'am," he said.

"You're not here to see how they're treating her," the woman replied.

The dispatcher refused to call paramedics and told the woman that she should contact hospital supervisors "and let them know" if she is unhappy.

"May God strike you too for acting the way you just acted," the woman said finally.

"No, negative ma'am, you're the one," he said.

The incident was the latest high-profile lapse at King-Harbor, formerly known as King/Drew. The Los Angeles County Board of Supervisors is investigating claims of recent patient care breakdowns, including Rodriguez's case.

Federal inspectors last week said emergency room patients were in "immediate jeopardy" of harm or death, and King-Harbor was given 23 days to shape up or risk losing federal funding.

Dr. Bruce Chernof, director of the county Department of Health Services, which oversees the facility, has called Rodriguez's death "inexcusable" and said it was "important to understand that this was fundamentally a failure of caring." He has said conditions are improving, though.

A call Wednesday seeking comment about the 911 tapes from the department's communications office, which handles information about the hospital, was not immediately returned.

Dr. Roger Peeks, the chief medical officer at the hospital, was placed on "ordered absence" Monday, the Times reported. Health officials declined to elaborate, saying it was a personnel matter. Dr. Robert Splawn, chief medical officer for the health department, was named interim chief medical officer, the newspaper said.

[-Slap-]

Settle down, Beavis.

[Smiling Assassin27]

Yeah, this story made me sick. MLK-Harbor is a sad excuse for a hospital and always has been. Somebody (maybe multiple somebodies) has to swing for this one.

On a side note, had the woman been black, i bet we see sharpton, jackson, and the goon squad raising hell. As it is, she's just one of us hispanics, i guess.

[Tredici]

I heard this on the radio this morning. Apparently this hospital is well known and well documented for this type of stuff. The nickname is Killer King. Sounded like when the facility was first built it was with intent to provide care for the inner city and the poor. But is failing. They also talked to a woman whose son died while waiting for emergency care a couple of years ago.

They also mentioned a good deal of the nursing staff did not have the proper credentials or training.

This is how we treat the poor in this country.

[Garcia Bronco]

Are they legal US Citizens?

[Tredici]

Are they legal US Citizens?

If not they can lay on the floor of an Emergency Waiting Room vomiting blood until they die?

Nice.

[Stormontheplains]

does perforated bowel mean she was stabbed, or was it internal bleeding?

[-Slap-]

No question the hospital was negligent. People die from hospital negligence every single day in this country. I have to wonder what the hell her boyfriend was thinking. If the woman I love is laying there in agony and nobody is helping here, I'm not sitting there with my thumb up my ass, begging for a goddamn ambulance. I'm putting her in my car and driving straight to the next closest emergency room.

[Circle Orange]

does perforated bowel mean she was stabbed, or was it internal bleeding?

Could be either, or even an advanced ulcer. Terrible, absolutely terrible.

[Hotrod]

No question the hospital was negligent. People die from hospital negligence every single day in this country. I have to wonder what the hell her boyfriend was thinking. If the woman I love is laying there in agony and nobody is helping here, I'm not sitting there with my thumb up my ass, begging for a goddamn ambulance. I'm putting her in my car and driving straight to the next closest emergency room.

I was thinking the same thing. Then I'd return and beat the living hell out of the doctor in charge.

[Los Broncos]

Pretty sad indeed, i feel for her family. And that horsepistol they call a hospital, needs to check them selfs.

[PatsWin2002]

Just goes to show you how complacent some hospital staff gets.

[ant1999e]

Are they legal US Citizens?

Are you a legal citizen? Garcia sounds Mexican to me. You have a green card?

[telluride]

Our American health care system at work.

(Also, the LAPD, but that's a 'nother story.)

[Garcia Bronco]

If not they can lay on the floor of an Emergency Waiting Room vomiting blood until they die?

Nice.

No Tred...but had they stayed in their country they might not have had this problem. It might have been worse...in which case from a cosmic perspective...her story and fate was already written.

[crush17]

saw this on the news this morning.
SICKENING.

[Kaylore]

If not they can lay on the floor of an Emergency Waiting Room vomiting blood until they die?

Nice.

Actually sometimes you get better treatment if you aren't a citizen than if you are.

[Los Broncos]

My gfs mother was not a legal citizen at one time and got rather good treatment.
.
But even a broken clock is right twice a day.

[PatsWin2002]

I know where Garcia is going with his seemingly "insensitive" question.

The topic of "illegals overcrowding our emergency rooms (and getting free care)" is raised on talk radio here quite often.

I agree that you can't turn sick people away in a normal society, but this comes down to dollars. That hospital will undoubtedly say they are understaffed and overworked....which leads right back to how many people are paying into the system and how many people are drawing from it.

If people complain about the problem with illegals here in Boston I can only imagine what it is like in a poor area of LA.

[Jana®]

No question the hospital was negligent. People die from hospital negligence every single day in this country. I have to wonder what the hell her boyfriend was thinking. If the woman I love is laying there in agony and nobody is helping here, I'm not sitting there with my thumb up my ass, begging for a goddamn ambulance. I'm putting her in my car and driving straight to the next closest emergency room.

AMEN to that. What kind of idiot was he.. to just sit there doing nothing?

[Garcia Bronco]

Are you a legal citizen? Garcia sounds Mexican to me. You have a green card?

Yes. As is my mother and her parents were and their parents were...my father was and his parents were as well. My family has served and lost as police and military(WWI and WWII). Plus my descendents include cherokee indians. The Welsh portion of my family came here in the mid 1800's just after the civil war...they became legal citizens through proper legal means.

Will that do?

[ant1999e]

So, if you have a hispanic last name, we should let you die because you may be illegal? I saw this coming.

[bendog]

I think Garcia's pt is that if they are not US citizens not only would they most likely avoid paying for the healthcare they "should" have gotten, now somebody's gonna screw the taxpayers via a law suit. At some pt, we just have to deny services to illegal aliens, unless they pay cash for them.

I'm sorry the lady is dead. But I don't feel any moral duty to pay for her health care, if she wasn't a citizen or a legal resident. Perhaps we should deny tax supported services to even legal aliens.

In Britain and France, since I couldn't "prove" citizenship, I had to pay cash up front for medical services. I didn't find that unfair.

[Garcia Bronco]

AMEN to that. What kind of idiot was he.. to just sit there doing nothing?

what should he have done...taken hostages? There is no happy ending here no matter which direction we take in the causal tree.

[cutthemdown]

Illegals go home. There is nothing for you here but death as you can see from this story. Save yourselves and leave this barbaric land where no help is given to you. Why submit yourself to bleeding on a hospital room floor when in your country people will understand what you say and save your life. America is brutal and doesn't derserve your hard work.

[Kaylore]

So, if you have a hispanic last name, we should let you die because you may be illegal? I saw this coming.

Where did you get that? Get off the slippery slope, man.

[ant1999e]

I think Garcia's pt is that if they are not US citizens not only would they most likely avoid paying for the healthcare they "should" have gotten, now somebody's gonna screw the taxpayers via a law suit. At some pt, we just have to deny services to illegal aliens, unless they pay cash for them.

I'm sorry the lady is dead. But I don't feel any moral duty to pay for her health care, if she wasn't a citizen or a legal resident. Perhaps we should deny tax supported services to even legal aliens.

In Britain and France, since I couldn't "prove" citizenship, I had to pay cash up front for medical services. I didn't find that unfair.

Was she illegal? Well, she was hispanic. That's close enough.

[Garcia Bronco]

So, if you have a hispanic last name, we should let you die because you may be illegal? I saw this coming.

No...put karmical speaking...nothing good can be gain through ill-gotten means. If illegal person X dies here in a hospital via neglect or what have you...perhaps the same thing would not have happened where they came from.

[ant1999e]

Illegals go home. There is nothing for you here but death as you can see from this story. Save yourselves and leave this barbaric land where no help is given to you. Why submit yourself to bleeding on a hospital room floor when in your country people will understand what you say and save your life. America is brutal and doesn't derserve your hard work.

Was she illegal?

[rugbythug]

So what did the dispatcher do wrong?? I mean 911 takes people to the nearest hospital. Since she was in the nearest hospital I don't see what the 911 people did wrong at all. Blame the hospital and crappy nurses.

ambulances are not taxi services

[Garcia Bronco]

Was she illegal? Well, she was hispanic. That's close enough.

To be clear..

hispanic people are a proud people and an asset to American culture. Illegal alien is not a race of people. Going by name alone is not a good test because illegals can be Brazilian, Canadian, English, and so on. I think you are speaking to your own preception of other's view illegals because you are hispanic in origin, if I recall.

[bendog]

Was she illegal? Well, she was hispanic. That's close enough.

It's not her surname. Also, it sort of sucks for those bagging on Garcia for having a name suggesting latino descent.

It's the fact that according to the article her boyfriend needed an English interpreter to talk to reporters. I don't think they meant sign language, but I could be wrong. That's why I phrased it "IF" she wasn't legally here, or even a citizen. I don't know. But, there is something out of whack when a hospital has some legal liability in denying treatment to someone not eligible for medicaid because they aren't a citizen and who has no private insurance. I really don't know what the status of a legal alien is for medicaid. It would seem they should get treatment, because I assume that if they are students they have to prove insurance, or if they are workers they should get either private insurance or medicaid.

[Kaylore]

So what did the dispatcher do wrong?? I mean 911 takes people to the nearest hospital. Since she was in the nearest hospital I don't see what the 911 people did wrong at all. Blame the hospital and crappy nurses.

You know I was thinking the same thing. As a dispatcher you have to assume that hospitals know what they're doing. If someone calls you and says that they want an ambulance to take you from one hospital to another because the service is bad, you have to assume that the caller is just hysterical and that the hospital has the situation under control. This is an instance that probably doesn't happen very often.

I agree with what others here have said about the Boyfriend and that's that he should have taken her somewhere else on his own rather than just "making a phone call".

[Garcia Bronco]

So what did the dispatcher do wrong?? I mean 911 takes people to the nearest hospital. Since she was in the nearest hospital I don't see what the 911 people did wrong at all. Blame the hospital and crappy nurses.

ambulances are not taxi services

I once had to take an ambulance to a hospital for a nice compound fracture caused by saving a virgin from 6 thugs. (not really..I was playing basketball). We didn't like the orthopod at hospital X where I was taken. Yeah...getting an ambulance too pick you up from a hospital to take you to another hospital is an ordeal...I waited on a stretcher for 4 hours...bleeding from the arm with a compund fracture.

[cutthemdown]

Was she illegal?

Well the stories I have read said neither of them spoke English. IMO if you can't speak English then I doubt you are legal. I would say there is only a .05 percent chance someone who is speaking spanish only is an American.

[ant1999e]

Well the stories I have read said neither of them spoke English. IMO if you can't speak English then I doubt you are legal. I would say there is only a .05 percent chance someone who is speaking spanish only is an American.

I watched an interview with her sister and she spoke english just fine.

[bendog]

Well the stories I have read said neither of them spoke English. IMO if you can't speak English then I doubt you are legal. I would say there is only a .05 percent chance someone who is speaking spanish only is an American.

She may have been legally here, though. I don't think it's clear. It's a shame she died, but if she wasn't here legally I still think it's wrong for her to have any legal claim against the hospital. It's saying to the hospital that it has a duty to treat someone knowing they aren't paying for the treatment and pass the cost onto you and me. I'm also assuming that if she had private insurance she'd have gone to a different hospital, because I think that one is largely indigent care.

[Garcia Bronco]

Well the stories I have read said neither of them spoke English. IMO if you can't speak English then I doubt you are legal. I would say there is only a .05 percent chance someone who is speaking spanish only is an American.

immigrants coming here should be made to learn English and want to learn english for that matter. I agree though...chances are if you cannot speak english at all...you are most likely here illegally

[bendog]

I once had to take an ambulance to a hospital for a nice compound fracture caused by saving a virgin from 6 thugs. (not really..I was playing basketball). We didn't like the orthopod at hospital X where I was taken. Yeah...getting an ambulance too pick you up from a hospital to take you to another hospital is an ordeal...I waited on a stretcher for 4 hours...bleeding from the arm with a compund fracture.

See, if you were Hixon you'd have set the fracture yourself and used the SubwaySandwich guy as a club to beat the incompetent docs.

[ant1999e]

http://aids-write.org/?p=562

"The 43-year-old mother of three had been released from the emergency room hours earlier, her third visit in three days for abdominal pain. She’d been given prescription medication and a doctor’s appointment.

Turning to Rodriguez, the nurse said, “You have already been seen, and there is nothing we can do,” according to a report by the county office of public safety, which provides security at the hospital."

[Garcia Bronco]

http://aids-write.org/?p=562

"The 43-year-old mother of three had been released from the emergency room hours earlier, her third visit in three days for abdominal pain. She’d been given prescription medication and a doctor’s appointment.

Turning to Rodriguez, the nurse said, “You have already been seen, and there is nothing we can do,” according to a report by the county office of public safety, which provides security at the hospital."

Wow...it sounds like this poor excuse for a medical facility exhausted it's abilities. Just terrible.

[bendog]

ant, from the link in the link you posted, it appears she was a citizen.

Sanchez said her sister was a giving person who always took an interest in people in need, unlike those who watched her suffer. "She would have taken her shoes to give to somebody with no shoes," she said. Rodriguez, a California native, performed odd jobs and lived alternately with different relatives.

[cutthemdown]

Listen illegal or not they should save the persons life. I agree that doctors are around to save lives not check green cards. They take an oath on that stuff. I do feel though that you can't really complain when things don't go good for you if you aren't in the country legally. You can't not pay taxes then expect to get great medical care. The fact the inner citites are so bogged down with illegal immigrants who don't pay for services makes these poor hospitals even poorer. It's a bad story either way IMO I don't want to see people dead really even though I may sound like I do sometimes. I just want them to go home and live in their own country. That doesn't seem like too much to want.

[Crushaholic]

Regardless of her legal status, she was LYING ON THE EMERGENCY ROOM FLOOR VOMITING BLOOD. The police respond by ARRESTING HER? Any responsible hospital would do what it takes to save her life and stabilize her condition.

[Garcia Bronco]

Regardless of her legal status, she was LYING ON THE EMERGENCY ROOM FLOOR VOMITING BLOOD. The police respond by ARRESTING HER? Any responsible hospital would do what it takes to save her life and stabilize her condition.

I agree...but what if they've had this happen so many times but from a cry wolf perspective? I just find it hard to believe they knew the true nature of the problem.


The good thing is...hopefully the either fix the issue...or shut the place down

[Rascal]

Wow...it sounds like this poor excuse for a medical facility exhausted it's abilities. Just terrible.

They didn't exhaust their abilities. They didn't do anything. The attending that saw her could have ordered simple tests to see what was wrong, but instead gave her pain medication for the third time and sent her home. If that is the limit of their abilities, then the hospital might as well close their doors because people can go to the drug store and do that. And to not attend to somebody who is vomiting blood on their hospital floor is horrifyingly pathetic. Being charged with negligence is just the beginning of the charges that should be brought against them.

[ant1999e]

Where did you get that? Get off the slippery slope, man.

I didn't start the slope, I'm just showing you it's there.

[Garcia Bronco]

They didn't exhaust their abilities. They didn't do anything. The attending that saw her could have ordered simple tests to see what was wrong, but instead gave her pain medication for the third time and sent her home. If that is the limit of their abilities, then the hospital might as well close their doors because people can go to the drug store and do that. And to not attend to somebody who is vomiting blood on their hospital floor is horrifyingly pathetic. Being charged with negligence is just the beginning of the charges that should be brought against them.

Perhaps...I would need to know more details myself. Personally...if she was illegally within our borders..I have little sympathy for it from compensation perspective. All I can tell you is what I would do hadI been the doctor there...I would have tried to save her life.

[Smiling Assassin27]

Inexcusable is what the hospital director called this. I agree. No qualifiers like immigration status, etc. Inexcusable. It's common practice there, speaking from experience. Talk to residents in the area and they'd rather amputate their own leg than go to King Harbor to get medical care.

[Garcia Bronco]

Another thing too.. this is why we don't and shouldn't have socialized medicine...this would be repeated in many locals should it be the case. Anything worth having is worth paying for.

[bendog]

They didn't exhaust their abilities. They didn't do anything. The attending that saw her could have ordered simple tests to see what was wrong, but instead gave her pain medication for the third time and sent her home. If that is the limit of their abilities, then the hospital might as well close their doors because people can go to the drug store and do that. And to not attend to somebody who is vomiting blood on their hospital floor is horrifyingly pathetic. Being charged with negligence is just the beginning of the charges that should be brought against them.

I think his point was that the hospital's abilities were so few, and most likely one reason they are so few is the drain put on it by treating illegal aliens, for whom the hospital can't bill medicaid.

Since the poor woman was a citizen, the citizens of california will be paying her family.

[Garcia Bronco]

Inexcusable is what the hospital director called this. I agree. No qualifiers like immigration status, etc. Inexcusable. It's common practice there, speaking from experience. Talk to residents in the area and they'd rather amputate their own leg than go to King Harbor to get medical care.

Then perhaps they should shut the place down.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Regardless of her legal status, she was LYING ON THE EMERGENCY ROOM FLOOR VOMITING BLOOD. The police respond by ARRESTING HER? Any responsible hospital would do what it takes to save her life and stabilize her condition.
Wow...I'm impressed...it only took 43 posts of wrangling over the irrelevant illegal aliens issue for somebody to notice what I bolded and put in red...that the COPS ARRESTED A DYING WOMAN IN A HOSPITAL FOR A DAMN PAROLE VIOLATION!!!! I wonder why that wasn't the very first thing posted in here instead of speculaton about the dead woman's citizenship.

Cripes...I think I see now why she died.

[Garcia Bronco]

Wow...I'm impressed...it only took 43 posts of wrangling over the irrelevant illegal aliens issue for somebody to notice what I bolded and put in red...that the COPS ARRESTED A DYING WOMAN IN A HOSPITAL FOR A DAMN PAROLE VIOLATION!!!! I wonder why that wasn't the very first thing posted in here instead of speculaton about the dead woman's citizenship.

Cripes...I think I see now why she died.

She didn't help herself by violating parole, that much is certain. Or maybe had she been in prison she would have gotten proper medical treatment. So many if's.

[ScottXray]

She may have been legally here, though. I don't think it's clear. It's a shame she died, but if she wasn't here legally I still think it's wrong for her to have any legal claim against the hospital. It's saying to the hospital that it has a duty to treat someone knowing they aren't paying for the treatment and pass the cost onto you and me. I'm also assuming that if she had private insurance she'd have gone to a different hospital, because I think that one is largely indigent care.

Legal or illegal ,paying or not, it IS the hospitals responsibility to treat...and many lawsuits have been the precedent that establishes that fact.

Which is exactly why we need health care reform in this country. With National health care a citizen would be able to get treatment at ANY hopsital (even private ones) and the hospital would know theyd be paid. And Illegals, would NOT be eligible...(so maybe some of them would go home!).

Either way, its disgusting that any Hospital would allow a patient to Die in their waiting room, no matter HOW busy they are. Some RNs are going to lose their licenses, and any physician who did see her at all may also. rightly.

[atomicbloke]

Why does everyone think that if someone isn't a citizen yet, they must be illegal?

There are so many legal immigrants here who are waiting .their time, paying higher taxes, following the rules on the path to citizenship. Why do people include them into those who should have no rights?

[Rascal]

Perhaps...I would need to know more details myself. Personally...if she was illegally within our borders..I have little sympathy for it from compensation perspective. All I can tell you is what I would do hadI been the doctor there...I would have tried to save her life.

Being illegal or not should have nothing to do with her receiving care according to law. The fact it, along with her race, is even been discussed is adding insult to this IMO.

[Garcia Bronco]

Being illegal or not should have nothing to do with her receiving care according to law. The fact it, along with her race, is even been discussed is adding insult to this IMO.

Naw...what we are doing is intellectualizing the situation. It's okay to do so.

[Garcia Bronco]

Why does everyone think that if someone isn't a citizen yet, they must be illegal?

There are so many legal immigrants here who are waiting .their time, paying higher taxes, following the rules on the path to citizenship. Why do people include them into those who should have no rights?

That's a good point. For the purposes of this subject I consider legal immigranst as legal citizens. Regardless of the semnatics we are talking about the difference between being here legally vs illegally.

[Garcia Bronco]

Legal or illegal ,paying or not, it IS the hospitals responsibility to treat...and many lawsuits have been the precedent that establishes that fact.

Which is exactly why we need health care reform in this country. With National health care a citizen would be able to get treatment at ANY hopsital (even private ones) and the hospital would know theyd be paid. And Illegals, would NOT be eligible...(so maybe some of them would go home!).



But they would still have to treat illegals based on your first paragraph...which is one reason we should never have government run and paid health care. The reform we need is tort reform to limit medical malpractice suits and thus lower preimums doctors have to pay to help lower cost.

[bendog]

Why does everyone think that if someone isn't a citizen yet, they must be illegal?

There are so many legal immigrants here who are waiting .their time, paying higher taxes, following the rules on the path to citizenship. Why do people include them into those who should have no rights?

I don't think people assume that. Currently we have the debate of what to do with 12-20 million illegal aliens. Personally, I distinguish between a moral duty to give illegall immigrants some kind of medical care, but I don't see why they should have a right to sue someone if they don't get it.

Obviously, the economy depends upon some form of "guest workers." It's an emotionally charged issue as to whether those who "snuck in" should be given a path to citizenship. I think they should simply on the reasoning that for 30 years or more our immigration laws have given a nod and wink to illegal aliens and employing them. Those folks have simply done what any industrious person would do given the legal realities. But, people disagree with me. Apparantly a very vocal minority, but their numbers may be larger than reported.

However, to regain control of our borders, we have to give greater rights (and pay) to legal workers, and take harsh steps against illegal workers and the employers who would hire them.

[-Slap-]

what should he have done...taken hostages? There is no happy ending here no matter which direction we take in the causal tree.

He could have put her in his car and took her someplace where they weren't going to allow her to bleed out on the floor.

[ZONA]

yaaaaawn..........is it lunch time yet. Damn I'm gettin seriously hungry. I feel like eating some MEXICAN food. Yeah baby!!!

[epicSocialism4tw]

The good thing is...hopefully the either fix the issue...or shut the place down

That's exactly why a lawsuit does little for anyone in this case.

[Garcia Bronco]

He could have put her in his car and took her someplace where they weren't going to allow her to bleed out on the floor.

Assuming he had a car. Could he have gotten to another hospitial in 40 minutes? I don't know.

[Blueflame]

He could have put her in his car and took her someplace where they weren't going to allow her to bleed out on the floor.

What if he doesn't own a car? Or what if he doesn't have a valid driver's license? Owning an automobile requires a fairly high income when one considers the cost of licensing, registration, insurance, gasoline, necessary maintenance, and so on... since the couple in question went to an "inner city" hospital, my guess is that they just might have all they can do to put food on the table and a roof over their heads. It's possible that they might have to utilize public transportation.

As to the hospital... when a human being is suffering and begging for help, denying that assistance and watching that human being die is abhorrent and inexcusable. Apparently this is not an unusual occurrence with this particular hospital... if they're receiving federal funding, it should be cut off and the hospital closed down if they cannot provide better care than that. This is what we get with "for-profit" healthcare.... cutting of costs, meaning a paring down of services, understaffing and substandard patient care.

[Merlin]

Another thing too.. this is why we don't and shouldn't have socialized medicine...this would be repeated in many locals should it be the case. Anything worth having is worth paying for.
This is an insightful comment. Can you name only 1 hospital in Canada that has their record?

Thanks

[bendog]

Didn't the poor man think the cops were going to take her? He may have thought that was her best bet to get care.

We have guys here committing petty crimes all the time, because they aren't eligible for medicaid, and if the Sheriff's got them, we have to pick up the tab.

[Stormontheplains]

This is an insightful comment. Can you name only 1 hospital in Canada that has their record?

Thanks

No, but every canadian I deal with would rather not pay 13.85% property tax and 10.95 Sales tax. They all say you cant afford to buy anything

[anon]

I think it is really incredible that the first - and strongest - thoughts regarding this tragedy were about the victim's immigration status. How about the gross inhumanity of the hospital staff and police? But I guess being a poor human being isn't illegal. You know what is a truly dangerous slippery slope? It's when we let what's legal and illegal govern our humanity.

If we really want to talk about reducing the incentive to come and stay in the US illegally, let's stop talking around the real problem: jobs. If it were hard to find jobs in the US as illegals, then illegals would not come to the US and would not be able to stay - regardless of any other factors. Period. All other points are just emotionally-charged distractions from this core problem.

There is more than a hint of xenophobia and racism in the rhetoric of the current immigration debate. It's obvious in the angry passion in which people cry about all the money that illegals are supposedly siphoning from the system and the neutral tone in which they add, "oh yeah, and let's get the business owners who are hiring illegals, too." In my opinion, if we want to get dirty and serious about this problem, play hardball, and dehumanize/criminalize the issue, then the business owners who hire illegals should be the #1 target for law enforcement. They are fellow citizens taking jobs away from other citizens, providing incentives for the "flood" of illegals to come and stay in the US; and thus indirectly place a burden on our public services while facilitating the siphoning of money out of the domestic economy. On top of that, they are probably avoiding employment taxes as well. But of course, that's not the approach that the politicians are taking (or at least, not in the headlines), because it could so easily turn unpopular and I'm sure there are powerful small business lobbies making sure that this issue is kept out of the mainstream media and in the background. Unfortunately, it seems the public is all too happy to go along with the trend of brown hating and the ever useful argument of "wasted tax dollars."

It's similar to the "drug wars" - do we make more of a dent on the problem by targeting addicts or by cracking down on drug lords and the organized crime organizations who distribute illegal substances? Except, I would argue that enforcing employment law on registered businesses would be much easier than going after criminals in the underground.

[ant1999e]

But it's easier to hate and blame the people who are being taken advantage of.

[Garcia Bronco]

But it's easier to hate and blame the people who are being taken advantage of.

Nobody is "hating" on anybody. We are having an honest discussion about a chain of events. The only thing you can blame on this woman is being on parole and violating it. I think we are all dismayed by the actions of the facility...but getting past that...here are some other issues that surround this issue.

[bendog]

Everyone's first thought is "OMG that's terrible." With any health care or injury situation in the US today, it's hardly uncommon to have the second thought be "who will they sue."

[CBF1]

This kinda crapola happens everyday in this country...... Get over it. Who gives a rat's azz if she is legal or not. If you were on vacation in Cancun and got injured, would you expect a hospital there to treat you or let you die?

Just another reason LA is without a doubt the place to be and the place to live.

[CBF1]

But it's easier to hate and blame the people who are being taken advantage of.

Easy for you to say sitting in the middle of nowhere, Come to Hell-A and see whom is being taken advantage of. With your comments I know you have never been to a SoCal hospital in your life.... The system here is so out of whack it will make your head spin.

PS: Be illegal and pregnant, This state will go out of its way to give you anything you might ever need for the next 18 years.... Now try that is you are considered caucasion.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Everyone's first thought is "OMG that's terrible." With any health care or injury situation in the US today, it's hardly uncommon to have the second thought be "who will they sue."
And that generally means you don't leave somebody on the floor of the ER bleeding to death...go figure.

Trust me...there's LOTS of legal work being churned out even as we speak...everyone from the hospital, to the doctor, the nurses, the cops, the 911 operator...I bet the janitor and the mother who bore him can get in line too.

[anon]

But it's easier to hate and blame the people who are being taken advantage of.


Though I'm sure there are many illegals working in horrible conditions, I also believe this line of emotional reasoning is distracting from the real issue. Emotional arguments prompt emotional responses. You might see something like, "Taken advantage of? You think contractors in South America give their workers air filters when cleaning out fiber glass insulation? They make more money here in a month than they would in a year back home. If they hate it so much, why don't they go back?" Riiiight...

[anon]

Easy for you to say sitting in the middle of nowhere, Come to Hell-A and see whom is being taken advantage of. With your comments I know you have never been to a SoCal hospital in your life.... The system here is so out of whack it will make your head spin.

PS: Be illegal and pregnant, This state will go out of its way to give you anything you might ever need for the next 18 years.... Now try that is you are considered caucasion.

I'm not saying you are wrong but you can't throw comments like this out there without some evidence. Tell me exactly how the welfare system is biased towards illegals?

It is pretty common for ER rooms to be filled with the poor, especially at county hospitals. In many cases, this is the only way to get any sort of health care.

A friend of mine got full grants to pay for tuition and minimal living expenses at UC Berkeley. She was white. Her dad was poor but her grandparents had money and could have easily paid her way. Having said that, her grandparents were pretty stingy and she needed every cent of that money.

I might also note that she received free health care from the county hospital when she needed it. Yes, she was probably the only white person there but she still received care, just like everybody else. And on her way out of the hospital one time, a cop asked if she needed a ride to her car. This is deep in a not-so-savory part of Oakland. Do you think a black or hispanic person would have received that offer?

And please, let's not sugarcoat how great these public services are. I think it's great that they are offered because there are truly many honest people out there who are trying to make it and just need a bit of a hand, but waiting in an ER room for hours in a dangerous neighborhood - a guy drove up to the ER after having been shot in the back, white T-shirt soaked red - with a bunch of sick poor people is hardly pampering or spoiling anybody...

[Merlin]

No, but every canadian I deal with would rather not pay 13.85% property tax and 10.95 Sales tax. They all say you cant afford to buy anything
Which province has a 13.85% property tax? They can't afford to buy anything? Canada is rated as one of the wealthiest countries in the World and the frequently places high in objective measures for being a good place to live. The price of many things in Canada is cheaper than the States and vice versa. To be honest, anyone who makes a statement about Canadians not being able to afford buying anything is either not aware of simple facts, a total ignoramus, an idiot, or just simply trying to deceive.

[anon]

Everyone's first thought is "OMG that's terrible." With any health care or injury situation in the US today, it's hardly uncommon to have the second thought be "who will they sue."


I would probably agree that the medical establishment has it pretty rough with liability from malpractice, etc... but my gut feeling is that lawsuits or the threat of lawsuits is a necessary evil to balance power between the consumer, service providers, and corporations - more so with corporations than with medical providers though. Because in my opinion, corporations will stretch any regulation to the max in the name of profit and must be kept in check with real and substantial penalties for violations.

[Paladin]

Another thing too.. this is why we don't and shouldn't have socialized medicine...this would be repeated in many locals should it be the case. Anything worth having is worth paying for.

We already have forms of "socialized medicine." They are called HMO's, Preferred Provider lists, capitated Medicaid and Medicare programs (mental health programs around the country, Hospice programs), Veteran's and military health programs, among others. The term "Socialized Medicine" is an arcane and ill-used term that is a strawman for the AMA, AHA and ADA. It all comes down to money.

[Garcia Bronco]

Which province has a 13.85% property tax? They can't afford to buy anything? Canada is rated as one of the wealthiest countries in the World and the frequently places high in objective measures for being a good place to live. The price of many things in Canada is cheaper than the States and vice versa. To be honest, anyone who makes a statement about Canadians not being able to afford buying anything is either not aware of simple facts, a total ignoramus, an idiot, or just simply trying to deceive.

Everybody I talk too from Canada says it's outragous of various items. That's not looking at the world through a spread sheet...but talking to actual residents.

[Garcia Bronco]

We already have forms of "socialized medicine." They are called HMO's, Preferred Provider lists, capitated Medicaid and Medicare programs (mental health programs around the country, Hospice programs), Veteran's and military health programs, among others. The term "Socialized Medicine" is an arcane and ill-used term that is a strawman for the AMA, AHA and ADA. It all comes down to money.

Right...but you know what I meant....aka...free health care or government paid health care.

[sutoazul]

immigrants coming here should be made to learn English and want to learn english for that matter. I agree though...chances are if you cannot speak english at all...you are most likely here illegally

Have you considered that maybe the woman and the boyfriend were visting LEGALLY the US??? what if they were visting their legal US resident sister or even an US citizen. They wouldn't necesarilly speak english if they were visting. Anyways, assuming they were illegal here is without knowing them is racist just because they spoke only spanish. dude, that's the problem with denying assistance to any one that comes throught the door of a hospital. Hospital should not be an inmigration office be checking the legality of your stayed in the states. I understand and believe is one of the biggest problems in the US the over-population of services in certain areas of the country; however is one could not be so hypocrate and believe that the economy would maintain itself deporting all those illegals... I don't think it would even if they get their amnesty!!! They would need to get pay just as anyother citizen!!! and we can't afford that.

[Blueflame]

If she was technically in police custody at the time of her death, then couldn't they possibly be liable for a lawsuit (wrongful death), too? Of course the "arrested instead of treated" is just an allegation by her family at this point, but I don't think police are supposed to cuff and transport a bleeding, dying suspect. I think any suspect's medical needs are supposed to be attended to first....regardless of whether or not they have an outstanding warrant.

[dragondawg]

yah saw that yesterday, tragic

[fdf]

I've seen stuff that bad in the flagship Kaiser hospital in LA. A friend of mine was moments from dying after being ignored for hours while I was running around trying to get someone's attention. The problem was obvious to me. A layman. I was right. He had a 105 fever (60 yrs old) 130 heart rate and had just finished major abdominal surgery. Of course he had a massive abdominal post-surgical infection. They let him lay there for hours on a saline drip while I was bugging everyone I could speak with for antibiotics.

My friend was in the hospital after that for four months before he was in any shape to leave. Had last rites administered twice.

Plus, he tells bad jokes now, which I attribute to brain damage from the fever.

[Garcia Bronco]

Have you considered that maybe the woman and the boyfriend were visting LEGALLY the US???

That's possible..but since she is a parole violator...that leads me to believe that the probability on that senario is low.

[Garcia Bronco]

Anyways, assuming they were illegal here is without knowing them is racist just because they spoke only spanish. dude, that's the problem with denying assistance to any one that comes throught the door of a hospital. Hospital should not be an inmigration office be checking the legality of your stayed in the states. I understand and believe is one of the biggest problems in the US the over-population of services in certain areas of the country; however is one could not be so hypocrate and believe that the economy would maintain itself deporting all those illegals... I don't think it would even if they get their amnesty!!! They would need to get pay just as anyother citizen!!! and we can't afford that.

That's not racist at all. I guess it depends on what you define as a race. Bottom line legal status is what I am talking about...unless you want to define nationality as race..I.e. The Amercian Race, Mexican Race, German Race and so on...why not extend it to cities..."I used to be in the Oswego Race, but moved west to be in the Denver Race." Maybe school district....how about subdivisions.

My personal desire is to have all illegals deported. They are stealing and invading our country. They are making fools out of the people that come here legally...worst of all...Some come here and kill our citizens, rob them of their property, flood our education system, and steal their healthcare. The grace of our compassion has allowed this to happen. Realistically, I don't see how you deport them.

[Garcia Bronco]

If she was technically in police custody at the time of her death, then couldn't they possibly be liable for a lawsuit (wrongful death), too? Of course the "arrested instead of treated" is just an allegation by her family at this point, but I don't think police are supposed to cuff and transport a bleeding, dying suspect. I think any suspect's medical needs are supposed to be attended to first....regardless of whether or not they have an outstanding warrant.

Tha is a headscratcher.

[Los Broncos]

That's not racist at all. I guess it depends on what you define as a race. Bottom line legal status is what I am talking about...unless you want to define nationality as race..I.e. The Amercian Race, Mexican Race, German Race and so on...why not extend it to cities..."I used to be in the Oswego Race, but moved west to be in the Denver Race." Maybe school district....how about subdivisions.

My personal desire is to have all illegals deported. They are stealing and invading our country. They are making fools out of the people that come here legally...worst of all...Some come here and kill our citizens, rob them of their property, flood our education system, and steal their healthcare. The grace of our compassion has allowed this to happen. Realistically, I don't see how you deport them.

What do you do about the illegals that have been here for five years or more, wheres their amnesty?

[Broncoman13]

They didn't exhaust their abilities. They didn't do anything. The attending that saw her could have ordered simple tests to see what was wrong, but instead gave her pain medication for the third time and sent her home. If that is the limit of their abilities, then the hospital might as well close their doors because people can go to the drug store and do that. And to not attend to somebody who is vomiting blood on their hospital floor is horrifyingly pathetic. Being charged with negligence is just the beginning of the charges that should be brought against them.


Hey, do you still have my #? Call me, lots of IE, QE, SE, AE, and perhaps ME positions coming open... both Gov and Civil. You want Denver still?

[baja]

No Tred...but had they stayed in their country they might not have had this problem. It might have been worse...in which case from a cosmic perspective...her story and fate was already written.

Had this happened to you in Mexico you would have received care no questions asked.

[baja]

No question the hospital was negligent. People die from hospital negligence every single day in this country. I have to wonder what the hell her boyfriend was thinking. If the woman I love is laying there in agony and nobody is helping here, I'm not sitting there with my thumb up my ass, begging for a goddamn ambulance. I'm putting her in my car and driving straight to the next closest emergency room.


You can say the same thing about the obese people spilling rolls of fat over the armrests in theaters and airplanes, they could get off their asses and lose the weight. Why is it you have such great compassion for the people that allow themselves to get grossly overweight yet have little tollarence for a guy at the hosp. seeking help for his dying girl friend withering in pain on the floor, there is obviously a time factor in play here too.

[-Slap-]

You can say the same thing about the obese people spilling rolls of fat over the armrests in theaters and airplanes, they could get off their asses and lose the weight. Why is it you have such great compassion for the people that allow themselves to get grossly overweight yet have little tollarence for a guy at the hospitle seeking help for his dying girl friend withering in pain on the floor, there is obviously a time factor in play here.

I fail to see the connection between these topics, except perhaps your affinity for Mexican people and your prejudice towards the portly.

In the time you would have wasted being offended and disgusted by the overweight people being attended to for their various medical conditions, I would have gathered up my girlfriend and taken care of business.

Once the hospital told me "**** you" and 9/11 told me "**** you", I think it would be high time for a little self reliance. In the improbable scenario advanced earlier that nobody related to this Southern California woman had a car, I would have stolen a car to get her some qualified medical assistance.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Had this happened to you in Mexico you would have received care no questions asked.

You might come out of it with an unusual scar on your back and missing a kidney, but they would have taken you in. ;D

[Florida_Bronco]

What do you do about the illegals that have been here for five years or more, wheres their amnesty?

They get NONE.

[Dr.5280]

You can say the same thing about the obese people spilling rolls of fat over the armrests in theaters and airplanes, they could get off their asses and lose the weight. Why is it you have such great compassion for the people that allow themselves to get grossly overweight yet have little tollarence for a guy at the hosp. seeking help for his dying girl friend withering in pain on the floor, there is obviously a time factor in play here too.

There is a time factor at play here too. Soon your body will metabolise the alcohol and you will come to realize how stupid your comment is.

[Willynowei]

There's something called timing to make a point and some people here just don't know how to use it.

Reread that article, if all it strikes is a political cord then I feel sorry for you.

[chaz]

very sad story....

[baja]

I fail to see the connection between these topics, except perhaps your affinity for Mexican people and your prejudice towards the portly.

In the time you would have wasted being offended and disgusted by the overweight people being attended to for their various medical conditions, I would have gathered up my girlfriend and taken care of business.

Once the hospital told me "**** you" and 9/11 told me "**** you", I think it would be high time for a little self reliance. In the improbable scenario advanced earlier that nobody related to this Southern California woman had a car, I would have stolen a car to get her some qualified medical assistance.

I'm not prejudice toward overweight people. I just do not consider them victims as you seem to as per your comments on the other thread.

\The relationship between the two is in inconsistantcy on your part to consider obese people victims \(another thread\) while this highly distraught man watching his loved one whither and die on the hosp. emergancy room floor in a 45 minute span of time gets no understanding from you seems highly judgmental to me Slap.

[-Slap-]

I'm not prejudice toward overweight people. I just do not consider them victims as you seem to as per your comments on the other thread.

\The relationship between the two is in inconsistantcy on your part to consider obese people victims \(another thread\) while this highly distraught man watching his loved one whither and die on the hosp. emergancy room floor in a 45 minute span of time gets no understanding from you seems highly judgmental to me Slap.

You seem extremely prejudiced against obese people. I never called them victims, I just don't immediately assume every overweight person is some ugly American with no self control.

As far as this widower, I feel bad for the guy, but his inaction contributed to his wife's demise. It might be indelicate to point that out, but its not even arguable. They refused her treatment, he already made the decision to switch hospitals, once the 911 operator told him to piss off, it was pretty stupid to stick around.

[sirhcyennek81]

If not they can lay on the floor of an Emergency Waiting Room vomiting blood until they die?

Nice.


Yes. Stretching a medical staff that has little money to begin with to provide care for people who wont pay taxes to support the hospital in the first place is a problem. Illegals know enough to know that emergency medical care is free, and if it swamps the system, oh well for other people who may actually need it.


:Broncos:

[Garcia Bronco]

There's something called timing to make a point and some people here just don't know how to use it.

Reread that article, if all it strikes is a political cord then I feel sorry for you.

People can respond and deal with these things in their own way. Just because some might not feel the outrage you do doesn't make their opinion ill-time. This happened almost 20 days ago. Perhaps they have already gone through that process.

[Blueflame]

You seem extremely prejudiced against obese people. I never called them victims, I just don't immediately assume every overweight person is some ugly American with no self control.

As far as this widower, I feel bad for the guy, but his inaction contributed to his wife's demise. It might be indelicate to point that out, but its not even arguable. They refused her treatment, he already made the decision to switch hospitals, once the 911 operator told him to piss off, it was pretty stupid to stick around.

Hindsight is 20/20, though... while the guy was obviously aware that his wife desperately needed medical treatment, it's possible that he didn't realize just how dire her circumstances were (that she was actually in the process of dying) ... it's equally obvious that trained medical staff should have realized it. And since most police are trained as "first responders" (and some even have EMT training), they should have realized it, too.

[epicSocialism4tw]

It looks as though most people are presenting a bit of truth on this thread. The boyfriend was partly at fault. If your loved one is dying on the floor, would you not go grab a nurse by the hair and drag her into the room? He could have dealt with the hospital more forcefully.

The hospital was also at fault for becoming either too occupied with other critical emergencies or being too lazy in patient assessment. Sometimes these places can go through the motions.

As far as the illegal immigrant element is concerned, there is absolutely zero doubt that illegal immigrants present a significant drag to the emergency system. Illegal immigrants who cannot afford health care will go to the ER for common illnesses. I know of a local free clinic that has become a family practice for illegal immigrants. Over 70% of their patients are illegal immigrants. That clinic saved Joe taxpayer well over 3 million dollars last year in services and medicines, not including the invasive procedures and drug assistance that it mediated.

That means that 2.1 million dollars worth of health care was given free of charge to illegal immigrants in that one clinic. There are several other free clinics in the area and most illegals just go to JPS ER or Parkland ER. The amount of money being spent on free health care for illegal immigrants is much larger than we can fathom right now.

[Blueflame]

It looks as though most people are presenting a bit of truth on this thread. The boyfriend was partly at fault. If your loved one is dying on the floor, would you not go grab a nurse by the hair and drag her into the room? He could have dealt with the hospital more forcefully.

The hospital was also at fault for becoming either too occupied with other critical emergencies or being too lazy in patient assessment. Sometimes these places can go through the motions.

As far as the illegal immigrant element is concerned, there is absolutely zero doubt that illegal immigrants present a significant drag to the emergency system. Illegal immigrants who cannot afford health care will go to the ER for common illnesses. I know of a local free clinic that has become a family practice for illegal immigrants. Over 70% of their patients are illegal immigrants. That clinic saved Joe taxpayer well over 3 million dollars last year in services and medicines, not including the invasive procedures and drug assistance that it mediated.

That means that 2.1 million dollars worth of health care was given free of charge to illegal immigrants in that one clinic. There are several other free clinics in the area and most illegals just go to JPS ER or Parkland ER. The amount of money being spent on free health care for illegal immigrants is much larger than we can fathom right now.

If the woman's husband had touched a nurse, it's likely the police would have arrested him for assault, given that they were (allegedly) more concerned with arresting his dying wife on a probation violation than with ensuring that she received necessary medical care.

The trained medical professionals at the hospital were negligent in allowing her to die when she had come to them in an emergency situation, seeking help. If two lay persons (the husband and the lady bystander who both called 911) could determine that treatment was necessary, why did the medical staff try to send her home untreated? There's no excuse for it.

[Cito Pelon]

I heard this on the radio this morning. Apparently this hospital is well known and well documented for this type of stuff. The nickname is Killer King. Sounded like when the facility was first built it was with intent to provide care for the inner city and the poor. But is failing. They also talked to a woman whose son died while waiting for emergency care a couple of years ago.

They also mentioned a good deal of the nursing staff did not have the proper credentials or training.

This is how we treat the poor in this country.

Poor is one thing, the human sewer that MLK Med Center is situated in is another.