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Bronco_Beerslug
06-08-2007, 12:10 PM
Rams DT Kennedy to help Broncos get bigger on defense (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2897672)
After a couple years of frustration, the Rams have traded former first-round choice Jimmy Kennedy to the Denver Broncos for what is believed to be a sixth-round pick.

Jimmy Kennedy (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=6348)

http://assets.espn.go.com/i/nfl/profiles/players/statsid/s6348.jpg Defensive Tackle

Profile (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=6348)

<table cellspacing="0"><caption>2006 Season Stats</caption> <tbody><tr class="io-columnHeaders"> <td>Tot</td> <td>Solo</td> <td>Ast</td> <td>FF</td> <td>Sack</td> <td>Int</td> </tr> <tr> <td>39</td> <td>30</td> <td>9</td> <td>0</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td></tr></tbody></table>


Kennedy, a first-round pick in 2003, is a 6-4, 325-pound former Penn State star whom the Rams hoped would solidify the interior of their defensive line. Over the past two seasons, though, they've had trouble getting Kennedy to conform to the team's style of defense. They wanted him to be more of a run-stopper. He wanted to shoot the gap and try to disrupt.

The Broncos were a fit because they want to get bigger along the defensive line. The other day, the Broncos signed defensive tackle Sam Adams. Now, Kennedy will be thrown into the mix.

John Clayton covers the NFL for ESPN.com

400HZ
06-08-2007, 12:12 PM
Who can stop the Broncos now?

BroncoInferno
06-08-2007, 12:14 PM
Damn, all of a sudden we have a pretty decent looking rotation at DT. Veal is probably on the way out.

Bronco_Beerslug
06-08-2007, 12:15 PM
Who can stop the Broncos now?This is probably the extent of your wit? What's wrong, nobody home over at the Chargers crowded boards?

Dagmar
06-08-2007, 12:15 PM
Who can stop the Broncos now?

No one!



I know you are being sarcastic, but I don't care!

Jason in LA
06-08-2007, 12:16 PM
Who can stop the Broncos now?


Well, we know who can stop the Chargers. Who ever plays them in the playoffs.

freak6
06-08-2007, 12:17 PM
Wow, I can't believe how many guys we have picked up. More depth from which to pick the best of these guys.

For everything we gave up to get Marcus Thomas, he has alot of guys to beat out. Weird.

Inkana7
06-08-2007, 12:17 PM
Well, we know who can stop the Chargers. Who ever plays them in the playoffs.

Oh, but they have Norv now. Their coaching woes are over.

Jens1893
06-08-2007, 12:20 PM
McKinley, Warren, Adams, Thomas, Veal, Kennedy, Harris ... Bates collects DTs like some women collect shoes.

Los Broncos
06-08-2007, 12:21 PM
This is probably the extent of your wit? What's wrong, nobody home over at the Chargers crowded boards?

Ha!

Los Broncos
06-08-2007, 12:22 PM
Good little pick up, should be solid for us.

Jens1893
06-08-2007, 12:22 PM
His Wiki profile for those unfamiliar with the player (like me).

Jimmy Kennedy (football player)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Jimmy Kennedy
Date of birth November 15, 1979 (1979-11-15) (age 27)
Place of birth Flag of United States Yonkers, New York
Position(s) Defensive tackle
College Penn State
NFL Draft 2003 / Round 1/ Pick 12
Statistics

* NFL.com

Team(s)
2003–present St. Louis Rams

Jimmy Wayne Kennedy (born November 15, 1979 in Yonkers, New York) is a professional American football player. He currently plays defensive tackle for the St. Louis Rams of the National Football League.
Contents
[hide]

* 1 NFL
* 2 Penn State
* 3 Early years
* 4 Trivia

[edit] NFL

The 6 ft. 4 in,, 320 lb. defensive tackle was the first round pick (#12 overall) of the St. Louis Rams in the 2003 NFL Draft. With two solid defensive tackles, Ryan Pickett and Damione Lewis, taken in 2001, Kennedy did not make a start his rookie season, and made only 1 tackle, and 1 assist that season. The following year, Kennedy played in the final 11 games of the season, starting 6 of them. During this time, he posted 16 tackles. By 2005, Kennedy had earned a spot as the Rams' nose tackle, and started the first 9 games of the season. With a chance to finally play, Kennedy made a respectable 33 tackles, 3 sacks, and 1 forced fumble.

[edit] Penn State

Kennedy was named a first team All-America by The NFL Draft Report, The Sporting News, and Walter Camp and third-team honors from the Associated Press. A four-year starter at Penn State University, Kennedy was named the 2002 Big Ten Defensive Lineman-of-the-Year and was a two-time first-team All-Big Ten selection. A semifinalist for the Lombardi Award, Kennedy finished his career with 213 tackles, 14 sacks, and 39 tackles-for-loss. Kennedy also played basketball for the Nittany Lions for one year.

He earned a Bachelor of Science in rehabilitation services in 2002.

[edit] Early years

Kennedy attended Roosevelt High School in Yonkers, where he was a three-year starter on both offense and defense. Under Coach Tony DeMatteo, Kennedy earned All-American, all-city, all-conference, all-state, and team MVP honors. He also won a local High School Heisman trophy.

[edit] Trivia

He is known to his teammates by his nickname, "The Bear."

alkemical
06-08-2007, 12:22 PM
I love this trade!

alkemical
06-08-2007, 12:23 PM
Oh god, his middle name is "wayne"

this could be bad

Bob's your Information Minister
06-08-2007, 12:28 PM
Why not just grab Ryan Sims? LOL

55CrushEm
06-08-2007, 12:30 PM
So how many friggin' draft picks do we have for next year......we lose our 3rd for Marcus Thomas, our 6th for this guy......we do get a 7th for Fake Blunder......oh wait, do we still get one next year for Lelie ?

Garcia Bronco
06-08-2007, 12:30 PM
Why not just grab Ryan Sims? LOL

If we did decide to get Sims...if it happened...he would perform here unlike in KC.

Bob's your Information Minister
06-08-2007, 12:31 PM
If we did decide to get Sims...if it happened...he would perform here unlike in KC.

Perform what? Ballet? ROFL!

Jens1893
06-08-2007, 12:31 PM
So ow many friggin' draft picks do we have for next year......we lose our 3rd for Marcus Thomas, our 6th for this guy......we do get a 7th for Fake Blunder......oh wait, do we still get one next year for Lelie ?

Skins΄ 4th

SpringStein
06-08-2007, 12:33 PM
So ow many friggin' draft picks do we have for next year......we lose our 3rd for Marcus Thomas, our 6th for this guy......we do get a 7th for Fake Blunder......oh wait, do we still get one next year for Lelie ?


Yes, a 4th from Skins.

Currently:
First
Second
Two fourths
Fifth
Two sevenths

(7 picks)

Arkansas Bronco
06-08-2007, 12:33 PM
I like this pick up. Another big hoss for rotation.

55CrushEm
06-08-2007, 12:35 PM
Yes, a 4th from Skins.

Currently:
First
Second
Two fourths
Fifth
Two sevenths

(7 picks)

Ok....not as bad as I thought. And IF Jake decides to play....instead of 2 7th rounders, we'll have 3 in the 4th.

Popps
06-08-2007, 12:36 PM
Sounds like he had some success early on with the Rams. Young guy... maybe a system change will make a difference. Great to have another guy with potential upside. Perfect use of a 6th round pick, imo.

RunSilentRunDeep
06-08-2007, 12:38 PM
Wonder if this signals McKinley playing end fulltime. Also, if Clayton is right
"they've had trouble getting Kennedy to conform to the team's style of defense. They wanted him to be more of a run-stopper. He wanted to shoot the gap and try to disrupt," then why would Denver want him unless it was as a third-down rusher?

Jens1893
06-08-2007, 12:40 PM
Ok....not as bad as I thought. And IF Jake decides to play....instead of 2 7th rounders, we'll have 3 in the 4th.

We don΄t even need him to play, we just need him to show up at the Bucs΄ facility.

DeusExManning
06-08-2007, 12:41 PM
This guy has the skills, I was high on him when he was drafted. We have another high first round draft choice on our line. Best offseason.... ever.

cutthemdown
06-08-2007, 12:44 PM
He's young and big which are things Broncos are looking for along the front. Who knows what the final rotation at DT will be but at least Broncos have quite a few options now. We have so many Dlineman on the roster now that some people aren't going to make the team. Or maybe someone gets a ohantom injury and ends up on IR. The rookies are too high of draft picks for practice squad, someone would steal them. But we could hide one of them on IR maybe. As far as Veal goes he doesn't really have the size so he may get cut. Amon Gordon and Antwon Burton also are looking like possible cuts.

RocBronc
06-08-2007, 12:55 PM
The Rams doing their best Redskins imitation....

Love this pickup.

freak6
06-08-2007, 12:55 PM
Best offseason.... ever.

I seem to remember something about that...

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=56959&highlight=poll+offseason

Traveler
06-08-2007, 01:00 PM
If anything, they are making sure there is competition along the DL. This is who we have thus far (17 DLinemen):


Lang, Kenard DE 6' 3" 264
Moss, Jarvis DE 6' 6" 251
Crowder, Tim DE 6' 4" 270
Peterson, Kenny DE 6' 3" 285 (cut)
Hall, Carlos DE 6' 4" 259 28 (cut)
Dumervil, Elvis DE 5' 11" 250
Ekuban, Ebenezer DE 6' 4" 275
Engelberger, John DE 6' 4" 252

Gordon, Amon DT 6' 2" 319
Harris, Steven DT 6' 5" 285 (cut)
Thomas, Marcus DT 6' 3" 296
Adams, Sam DT 6' 3" 350
Warren, Gerard DT 6' 4" 325
Veal, Demetrin DT 6' 2" 288
McKinley, Alvin DT 6' 3" 294
Burton, Antwon DT 6' 2" 315 (cut)
Kennedy, Jimmy DT 6' 4" 325

How many can they possibly keep?

Arkansas Bronco
06-08-2007, 01:04 PM
I think Burger has to be at the top of the list on getting cut. Dude has never inspired me.

-Slap-
06-08-2007, 01:04 PM
Big and fat and soft as Charmin.

CHANGSTER
06-08-2007, 01:10 PM
If anything, they are making sure there is competition along the DL. This is who we have thus far (17 DLinemen):


Lang, Kenard DE 6' 3" 264
Moss, Jarvis DE 6' 6" 251
Crowder, Tim DE 6' 4" 270
Peterson, Kenny DE 6' 3" 285 (cut)
Hall, Carlos DE 6' 4" 259 28 (cut)
Dumervil, Elvis DE 5' 11" 250
Ekuban, Ebenezer DE 6' 4" 275
Engelberger, John DE 6' 4" 252

Gordon, Amon DT 6' 2" 319
Harris, Steven DT 6' 5" 285 (cut)
Thomas, Marcus DT 6' 3" 296
Adams, Sam DT 6' 3" 350
Warren, Gerard DT 6' 4" 325
Veal, Demetrin DT 6' 2" 288
McKinley, Alvin DT 6' 3" 294
Burton, Antwon DT 6' 2" 315 (cut)
Kennedy, Jimmy DT 6' 4" 325

How many can they possibly keep?

Heres what I think Likely will go down.

Lang, Kenard DE 6' 3" 264
Moss, Jarvis DE 6' 6" 251
Crowder, Tim DE 6' 4" 270
Peterson, Kenny DE 6' 3" 285 (cut)
Hall, Carlos DE 6' 4" 259 28 (cut)
Dumervil, Elvis DE 5' 11" 250
Ekuban, Ebenezer DE 6' 4" 275
Engelberger, John DE 6' 4" 252 (cut)

Gordon, Amon DT 6' 2" 319 (cut)
Harris, Steven DT 6' 5" 285 (ps)
Thomas, Marcus DT 6' 3" 296
Adams, Sam DT 6' 3" 350
Warren, Gerard DT 6' 4" 325
Veal, Demetrin DT 6' 2" 288 (cut)
McKinley, Alvin DT 6' 3" 294
Burton, Antwon DT 6' 2" 315 (cut)
Kennedy, Jimmy DT 6' 4" 325

That still makes 10 DL. I cant recall holding even 9, maybe their will be a surprise cut in there.

Traveler
06-08-2007, 01:12 PM
Heres what I think Likely will go down.

Lang, Kenard DE 6' 3" 264
Moss, Jarvis DE 6' 6" 251
Crowder, Tim DE 6' 4" 270
Peterson, Kenny DE 6' 3" 285 (cut)
Hall, Carlos DE 6' 4" 259 28 (cut)
Dumervil, Elvis DE 5' 11" 250
Ekuban, Ebenezer DE 6' 4" 275
Engelberger, John DE 6' 4" 252 (cut)

Gordon, Amon DT 6' 2" 319 (cut)
Harris, Steven DT 6' 5" 285 (ps)
Thomas, Marcus DT 6' 3" 296
Adams, Sam DT 6' 3" 350
Warren, Gerard DT 6' 4" 325
Veal, Demetrin DT 6' 2" 288 (cut)
McKinley, Alvin DT 6' 3" 294
Burton, Antwon DT 6' 2" 315 (cut)
Kennedy, Jimmy DT 6' 4" 325

That still makes 10 DL. I cant recall holding more than 9, maybe their will be a surprise cut in there.

Didn't they just extend Veal's contract during the 2006 season?

BroncoInferno
06-08-2007, 01:13 PM
If anything, they are making sure there is competition along the DL. This is who we have thus far (17 DLinemen):


Lang, Kenard DE 6' 3" 264
Moss, Jarvis DE 6' 6" 251
Crowder, Tim DE 6' 4" 270
Peterson, Kenny DE 6' 3" 285 (cut)
Hall, Carlos DE 6' 4" 259 28 (cut)
Dumervil, Elvis DE 5' 11" 250
Ekuban, Ebenezer DE 6' 4" 275
Engelberger, John DE 6' 4" 252

Gordon, Amon DT 6' 2" 319
Harris, Steven DT 6' 5" 285 (cut)
Thomas, Marcus DT 6' 3" 296
Adams, Sam DT 6' 3" 350
Warren, Gerard DT 6' 4" 325
Veal, Demetrin DT 6' 2" 288
McKinley, Alvin DT 6' 3" 294
Burton, Antwon DT 6' 2" 315 (cut)
Kennedy, Jimmy DT 6' 4" 325

How many can they possibly keep?

I'd say 9 or 10:

DE--Dumervil, Moss, Crowder, Lang, Ekuban
DT--Warren, Adams, Thomas, McKinley, Kennedy

If 9 then Lang and Ekuban battle it out for the last spot.

SoDak Bronco
06-08-2007, 01:13 PM
12. St. Louis Rams (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=stl) -- Jimmy Kennedy, DT, Penn State
Kennedy slid down a little because of an unimpressive workout, but he was more productive this season than Dewayne Robertson. Kennedy fills a need for the Rams, but I was surprised that St. Louis didn't try to move up and go after Marcus Trufant.

from kyper's post draft analysis

BroncoInferno
06-08-2007, 01:15 PM
Didn't they just extend Veal's contract during the 2006 season?

I think so. He a solid rotational guy in a one-gap scheme, but does not fit the Bates mold too well. Maybe we can get a 6th or 7th for him.

Traveler
06-08-2007, 01:16 PM
Sounds like he had some success early on with the Rams. Young guy... maybe a system change will make a difference. Great to have another guy with potential upside. Perfect use of a 6th round pick, imo.

Popps, you've been rather low-key this offseason. With all the changes made on the DL, I figured you would have chimed in more than you have.

You've been one of the most vocal OM members for years concerning our DL (or lack thereof). What's your take on all the changes?

CHANGSTER
06-08-2007, 01:16 PM
Didn't they just extend Veal's contract during the 2006 season?


I think so, I just cant think of anyone else who could be cut, he's the odd man out. I really doubt they would keep 6. Plus he's the lightest of the bunch.

Killericon
06-08-2007, 01:17 PM
I love it.

ol number 7
06-08-2007, 01:19 PM
Big and fat and soft as Charmin.

If you are discribing Kennedy you are right on. I live in St. Louis and have seen him play his whole NFL career. He clogs up the DEFENSIVE backfield when his big booty gets knocked back into the linebackers.
"Will never see a regular season game as a Bronco"

Notice the quotation marks. We got our pocket picked this time. Everyone in St. Louis is overjoyed his lazy butt is gone, and shocked they got anything for him. Worse than Ryan Simms by a long shot.

Hotrod
06-08-2007, 01:21 PM
Meanwhile at the FO of the chefs

http://www.nelliecashman.freeservers.com/images/tumbleweed.jpg

Rohirrim
06-08-2007, 01:21 PM
Thou shalt trust in Bates. :notworthy

SonOfLe-loLang
06-08-2007, 01:30 PM
I have a feeling McKinley migth see some playing time at end in more obvious run situations...kind of like what courtney brown was to us a couple years ago (i know its a diff scheme, but similar philosophy). I wonder if this might spell the end for gerard warren in a broncos uni...wouldnt shock me.

-Slap-
06-08-2007, 01:33 PM
If you are discribing Kennedy you are right on. I live in St. Louis and have seen him play his whole NFL career. He clogs up the DEFENSIVE backfield when his big booty gets knocked back into the linebackers.
"Will never see a regular season game as a Bronco"

Notice the quotation marks. We got our pocket picked this time. Everyone in St. Louis is overjoyed his lazy butt is gone, and shocked they got anything for him. Worse than Ryan Simms by a long shot.

He's terrible. We got bent over big time.

The Rams were the dominant team in the NFC until their disastrous attempts to beef up their interior line. Damione Lewis, Ryan Pickett and Jimmy Kennedy were all first round DT busts and it essentially ruined the Rams as contenders for a few years.

Bronco_Beerslug
06-08-2007, 01:41 PM
He's terrible. We got bent over big time.

The Rams were the dominant team in the NFC until their disastrous attempts to beef up their interior line. Damione Lewis, Ryan Pickett and Jimmy Kennedy were all first round DT busts and it essentially ruined the Rams as contenders for a few years.Bent over for a 6th? How many 6th rounders have made our team lately?

RkyMtnThunder
06-08-2007, 01:44 PM
Low risk to reward ratio here.

Not bad. Lets see what happens. Missing out on a 6th rounder isnt too painful IMO to take a flier on a guy who might just need a change of scenery.

Kaylore
06-08-2007, 01:46 PM
Bent over for a 6th? How many 6th rounders have made our team lately?

He's saying he isn't worth anything. When you give something for nothing you get bent over. We'll see how coach Johnson's effect is on him, but I trust -Slap- on this as he was a Rams fan for a long time and still follows the team to some degree.

-Slap-
06-08-2007, 01:47 PM
We're already going into next year's draft down a third rounder. I can't see burning another one on a guy who was probably going to be released anyway.

Bronco_Beerslug
06-08-2007, 01:50 PM
He's saying he isn't worth anything. When you give something for nothing you get bent over. We'll see how coach Johnson's effect is on him, but I trust -Slap- on this as he was a Rams fan for a long time and still follows the team to some degree.
I think I'll trust our D coaching staff right now until they show we shouldn't.

footstepsfrom#27
06-08-2007, 02:05 PM
Low risk to reward ratio here.

Not bad. Lets see what happens. Missing out on a 6th rounder isnt too painful IMO to take a flier on a guy who might just need a change of scenery.
Correct.

This is how I like to see a 6th used...either as added leverage for a move up in the draft combined with other picks or for a young guy with talent who for one reason or another didn't make it with his previous team. If this had been a 4th I'd be mad, but a 6th is usually camp fodder anyway. He'll need to accept the Bates role as a run stuffer and show a serious motor. If he does those things we did well. If nothing else he'll give the 34 year old Adams a breather more often just because he's got size. If he plays 10 plays a game in the rotation he's worth it.

MOCRUSH
06-08-2007, 02:08 PM
Gotta concur with ol number 7 and slap on this one, waste of pick, plane ticket and oxygen.

RodInCanton
06-08-2007, 02:08 PM
Big and fat and soft as Charmin.

Bob annoys me also but that's no reason to go name calling!:wiggle:

RkyMtnThunder
06-08-2007, 02:10 PM
Correct.

This is how I like to see a 6th used...either as added leverage for a move up in the draft combined with other picks or for a young guy with talent who for one reason or another didn't make it with his previous team. If this had been a 4th I'd be mad, but a 6th is usually camp fodder anyway. He'll need to accept the Bates role as a run stuffer and show a serious motor. If he does those things we did well. If nothing else he'll give the 34 year old Adams a breather more often just because he's got size. If he plays 10 plays a game in the rotation he's worth it.


Agreed. I view late round picks the same way you do: ammo for flexibility rather than any real hope of finding the next Brady or TD.

stoxman
06-08-2007, 02:11 PM
This is a quality signing---Bates will whip him into shape..he's young and has talent and the requisite measurables for our new scheme...for a lousy 6th---I REALLY LIKE IT!

ZONA
06-08-2007, 02:12 PM
I think it's clear that Shanny wants some fierce competition at the DL this summer in camp. No free rides for guys like Adams and others. Some of the guys like Dummer who had a decent year last year cannot rest on that and they have to step it up a few nothces.

While there have been many 1st/2nd round players who did not work out so well for the 1st team and were traded, and still did not do anything, there are some guys who have turned their careers around by changing teams. Heck, I live here in Phoenix Arizona and I see that on an anual basis. Seems every year a player or 2 that gets traded or cut from Arionza goes onto another place and becomes solid and even a great player. Semion Rice, Thomas Jones, Larry Centers, Marcel Shipp, the list goes on. Watch, Leonard Davis will have a monster year now that he's not with Arizona now. Hilarious!

It's possible Jimmy could deliver. He has the physical tools so that's half the battle. If it's a mental thing, maybe he was in the doghouse over there for other reasons and he just didn't get along with the coaches or whatever. But he has to know that usually you only get a few cracks as this and then you're gone from the league, unless your T.O. (did I just say T.O. - crap).

We'll see how it works out - I'm not sweatin the 6th rounder.

RkyMtnThunder
06-08-2007, 02:34 PM
I think it's clear that Shanny wants some fierce competition at the DL this summer in camp. No free rides for guys like Adams and others. Some of the guys like Dummer who had a decent year last year cannot rest on that and they have to step it up a few nothces.

While there have been many 1st/2nd round players who did not work out so well for the 1st team and were traded, and still did not do anything, there are some guys who have turned their careers around by changing teams. Heck, I live here in Phoenix Arizona and I see that on an anual basis. Seems every year a player or 2 that gets traded or cut from Arionza goes onto another place and becomes solid and even a great player. Semion Rice, Thomas Jones, Larry Centers, Marcel Shipp, the list goes on. Watch, Leonard Davis will have a monster year now that he's not with Arizona now. Hilarious!

It's possible Jimmy could deliver. He has the physical tools so that's half the battle. If it's a mental thing, maybe he was in the doghouse over there for other reasons and he just didn't get along with the coaches or whatever. But he has to know that usually you only get a few cracks as this and then you're gone from the league, unless your T.O. (did I just say T.O. - crap).

We'll see how it works out - I'm not sweatin the 6th rounder.


I thought Shipp was still with the Cards? Were you thinking about RB Michael Pittman who had a couple OK years in TB? (I live in AZ as well)

RunSilentRunDeep
06-08-2007, 02:44 PM
According to the NFLPA, Kennedy is in his contract year so maybe that'll light a fire.

footstepsfrom#27
06-08-2007, 02:48 PM
There's a trend here...one that has long established itself with Shanahan. Trade mid to low round picks for underachiever type DL guys who got drafted high in the beginning. At least this guy isn't 35 years old. One of these guys hopefully will look around him and see a bunch of other rejects and think, "damn I might get to start here if I just pull my head out". ;D

atomicbloke
06-08-2007, 03:04 PM
Wow, so far we made some great picking this off season.

We had to make one horrendous one to balance it out.

Giving up a 6th rounder (when we are short on picks in 08) for this steak eater is so dumb..... we might as well have resigned Maurice Clarett.

Billy Clyde Puckett
06-08-2007, 03:04 PM
McKinley, Warren, Adams, Thomas, Veal, Kennedy, Harris ... Bates collects DTs like some women collect shoes.

Sounds to me like one or more of the crew has been less than impressive. Who gets cut???

footstepsfrom#27
06-08-2007, 03:10 PM
Wow, so far we made some great picking this off season.

We had to make one horrendous one to balance it out.

Giving up a 6th rounder (when we are short on picks in 08) for this steak eater is so dumb..... we might as well have resigned Maurice Clarett.
A 6th rounder can easily be replaced just by dumping a vet who wouldn't make the team anyway to somebody who has a need and doesn't want to risk the waiver wire. This move has no real down side...and Kennedy has more talent than almost anyone we're likely to find in the 6th anyway.

Atlas
06-08-2007, 03:11 PM
This is probably the extent of your wit? What's wrong, nobody home over at the Chargers crowded boards?

He is right. No one can stop the Broncos. It's nice that he comes to grips with it now so he'll disappear when the regular season rolls around like the rest of the Charger trolls.

RkyMtnThunder
06-08-2007, 03:12 PM
Wow, so far we made some great picking this off season.

We had to make one horrendous one to balance it out.

Giving up a 6th rounder (when we are short on picks in 08) for this steak eater is so dumb..... we might as well have resigned Maurice Clarett.

I dont think its quite that bad.

List the last 10 6th round picks that not only made the team, but made a difference. (excluding TD of course, that was almost miraculous and not something to reasonably expect)

SonOfLe-loLang
06-08-2007, 03:16 PM
Yeah, i dont know why people are getting bent out of shape over losing a probable late sixth round pick next year. Chances of that guy making the team are slim to none anyway. relax

footstepsfrom#27
06-08-2007, 03:20 PM
He's not a malcontent, a drunk, a nut job, a human blimp, an injury risk, on the homestretch for his career or somebody who refuses to show up...all of which had their supporters in here, often at a higher price. At least we have the physical pieces to put on the chess board with Bates system.

Mediator12
06-08-2007, 03:26 PM
Well, after years of having scrubs on the DL adding another one to the mix seems appropriate ;D

As for Jimmy Kennedy, he is another in the long line of DL underachievers DEN has Brought in in the past four years. There are no DL left from the 2004 season. At my count, there have been 29 different DL the last four years. That means they have turned over the DL three times in a four year span. They have had seven times the number of players needed to play and three times the average number on a active roster.

One thing is for sure, they did not like the CLE guys enough to not spend resources to try and replace all of them as soon as possible. Thank God the FO woke up this offseason and realized they had trash on the DL and were going to do something about it. Adding 7 more DL should wake the CLE guys up about job security and make Training Camp just that more interesting.

Paladin
06-08-2007, 03:28 PM
Every move means two extreme views around here, doesn't it?

I think I will withhold an opinion until the mini camp, at least. Seems to me that the D coaches and Shanahan know a little something about what they are doing.

Wasn't Kuper a 6th two years ago? SoCal has a point: a pick in any round can sometimes uncover a player, but you have to have a good a scouting system. Even though the past three years have been pretty good drafts for the Broncos, the loss of the 6th could be important. OTOH, two sevenths could get a sixth if it meant all that much to anyone. Holding picks for next year when you are trying to make a run this year may not be good strategy....

Man-Goblin
06-08-2007, 03:34 PM
This is probably a guy the Broncos thought the world of coming out of college but he didn't fall to them in the draft (good thing too because they may never have drafted George Foster!)

Things didn't work out for him, for whatever reason. But at such a low price I have no problem with giving him a shot to see if he can rekindle whatever it is the Broncos thought he had in him 4 years ago.

footstepsfrom#27
06-08-2007, 03:39 PM
Every move means two extreme views around here, doesn't it?

I think I will withhold an opinion until the mini camp, at least. Seems to me that the D coaches and Shanahan know a little something about what they are doing.

Wasn't Kuper a 6th two years ago? SoCal has a point: a pick in any round can sometimes uncover a player, but you have to have a good a scouting system. Even though the past three years have been pretty good drafts for the Broncos, the loss of the 6th could be important. OTOH, two sevenths could get a sixth if it meant all that much to anyone. Holding picks for next year when you are trying to make a run this year may not be good strategy....
Somebody will give us a 6th for Engleberger. Kuper came in the 5th round, but all we know about him at this point is that he and Cutler have the same barber:

http://cache.denverbroncos.com/resources/custom/Team/Kuper_Chris_mug.jpg

400HZ
06-08-2007, 03:40 PM
He is right. No one can stop the Broncos. It's nice that he comes to griips with it now so he'll disappear when the regular season rolls around like the rest of the Charger trolls.

You're right. Resistance is futile. :thumbsup:

Man-Goblin
06-08-2007, 03:42 PM
Somebody will give us a 6th for Engleberger. Kuper came in the 5th round, but all we know about him at this point is that he and Cutler have the same barber:

http://cache.denverbroncos.com/resources/custom/Team/Kuper_Chris_mug.jpg

LOL Now that's what a mother****in offensive lineman should look like.

bpc
06-08-2007, 03:52 PM
To be honest he has blown big time in the NFL. Lets look at this though... Denver is looking for beef, guys that can take up blocks and use them to stay fresh throughout the game. Gerrard Warren, Sam Adams, Jimmy Kennedy... these guys are big and if nothing else, can take up space and blocks.

I also think being around some more talented players will hopefully up the tempo that these guys have.

We set out trying to find some pass rushers at DE that can line up wide and create mismatches for pass rushing purposes... DONE through the draft.

Then we needed to add some talent and wide bodies at DT... DONE through the draft and FA.

I like how this has played out and i'm willing to give Kennedy another shot. If nothing else you can run up miles on those old fat DT's legs. They should be able to take especially in a rotational means.

The thing I like about this is the Rams used a high draft pick on Jimmy Kennedy expecting him to be a dominant DT... at his size, what were they expecting, John Randle? Now there is no pressure on him, all he has to do is take up blocks and play.

Lang, Kenard DE 6' 3" 264
Moss, Jarvis DE 6' 6" 251
Crowder, Tim DE 6' 4" 270
Peterson, Kenny DE 6' 3" 285 (cut)
Hall, Carlos DE 6' 4" 259 28 (cut)
Dumervil, Elvis DE 5' 11" 250
Ekuban, Ebenezer DE 6' 4" 275
Engelberger, John DE 6' 4" 252

Gordon, Amon DT 6' 2" 319
Harris, Steven DT 6' 5" 285 (cut)
Thomas, Marcus DT 6' 3" 296
Adams, Sam DT 6' 3" 350
Warren, Gerard DT 6' 4" 325
Veal, Demetrin DT 6' 2" 288
McKinley, Alvin DT 6' 3" 294
Burton, Antwon DT 6' 2" 315 (cut)
Kennedy, Jimmy DT 6' 4" 325

telluride
06-08-2007, 04:00 PM
Y'all need to calm the $#@! down. We'll get a six round back before the next draft by dealing one of our castoffs.

ward63
06-08-2007, 04:02 PM
Now I see Veal gone and Thomas a PS guy. If Scheffler is healthy, we could trade Alexander for a late rounder I'm sure.

wolf754life
06-08-2007, 04:03 PM
this is fantastic news, just got off the phone with a rams insider. Linehan never liked him, his work ethic, or his motivation. What people need to understand is that Kennedy was not drafted by the current coaching staff in St. Louis and never won them over with his performance. The rams simply were ready to give up on his physical potential. They tried to trade him during the draft but got no takers.

The reason why bronco fans should be excited is that Kennedy has two things that are hard to find, prototypical size and youth. Factor that in with low risk, a 6th rounder, and you have a low risk/high reward player. Many in St. Louis think Kennedy has a ton of untapped potential, he just needs to find the right coaching staff, and the right motives. A change will do him good!

Don't be surprised to see him starting by the midpoint of the season next to Gerrard Warren. This move will motivate Warren even further, and push adams, mckinley, thomas to excel.

An area of weakness and limited depth has become a strenghth with situational players afforded the opportunity to focus on what they do best.

Defensive End: Lang and Ekuban will start, but will be pushed hard by the rookies. Crowder will sub frequently against the run and eventually start. Moss is a passing down specialist, along with Dumervill, only coming in on passing downs. Lang, Ekuban, and Engleberger will make the team, providing veteran leadership.

Defensive Tackle: Warren and Adams will start in the base package, with Adams being subbed out frequently. McKinley,Kennedy and Thomas will rotate along the line, with so much depth you won't see Warren wearing down like he did the last half of the year. The broncos are very concerned about Gerrards injury history, and now that Kennedy, Thomas, McKinley are onboard an injury to Gerrard won't be catostrophic.

The bottom line is that the D-Line is as loaded for Denver as it has ever been, with a new D-Line coach, a new Defensive Coordinator, and two fantastic cover corners, the broncos will be attacking quarterbacks this year for the first time in a long time. No more read and react zone from Larry Charmin Coyer!

Jens1893
06-08-2007, 04:06 PM
Now I see Veal gone and Thomas a PS guy. If Scheffler is healthy, we could trade Alexander for a late rounder I'm sure.

You have to clear waivers to be PS eligible and you can sign another team΄s PS player if you put him on your active roster.

HorseHead
06-08-2007, 04:10 PM
I know he's my adopted Bronco, but my boy Kuper looks like the German kid in Willy Wonka....

Gcver2ver3
06-08-2007, 04:13 PM
This acquistion makes me further wonder if the rumors of Marcus Thomas getting off to a slow start is true.....

footstepsfrom#27
06-08-2007, 04:23 PM
This acquistion makes me further wonder if the rumors of Marcus Thomas getting off to a slow start is true.....
I doubt Shanahan would use these padless "voluntary" workouts to even try to determine something like that, let alone start trading for players based on an observation about a rookie who has barely played since his junior year in college. If we're two games into the preseason and he looks like he's lazy and unmotivated you might have yourself a story.

Hercules Rockefeller
06-08-2007, 04:29 PM
God, it's early June, the Broncos still have 7 picks, and people are already whining about the number of picks.

Like the trade.

Gcver2ver3
06-08-2007, 04:34 PM
I doubt Shanahan would use these padless "voluntary" workouts to even try to determine something like that, let alone start trading for players based on an observation about a rookie who has barely played since his junior year in college. If we're two games into the preseason and he looks like he's lazy and unmotivated you might have yourself a story.


I hope you're right....makes sense....

but i have heard that Thomas is not looking as sharp as he could have....

i for one am stoked to see what Thomas does for us.....rookie DTs rarely make a big impact their first season anyway....

even still, it's not impossible that being it was such a low round pick, and with Kennedy's upside, that a factor into the decision to get him was also because thomas is off to a slow start....

Kaylore
06-08-2007, 04:40 PM
Somebody will give us a 6th for Engleberger. Kuper came in the 5th round, but all we know about him at this point is that he and Cutler have the same barber:

http://cache.denverbroncos.com/resources/custom/Team/Kuper_Chris_mug.jpg

...and that he is a super bad ass!

Cool Breeze
06-08-2007, 04:46 PM
...and that he is a super bad ass!

Holy Cow! What a doofus!
Baby Huey comes to mind

Kaylore
06-08-2007, 04:48 PM
I know he's my adopted Bronco, but my boy Kuper looks like the German kid in Willy Wonka....

What? When did YOU get him??!? I called him first!!!!!!!

Just kidding, man. All will soon call Kuper their adopted Bronco! :strong:

Kaylore
06-08-2007, 04:49 PM
Holy Cow! What a doofus!
Baby Huey comes to mind

Real linemen aren't pretty. Seriously, he's going to be very good and will be starting this year.

footstepsfrom#27
06-08-2007, 05:06 PM
...and that he is a super bad ass!
Has he played a down yet? First year starter, (assuming Holand doesn't take it)...zero experience inthe NFL...and in this system if he's just average this year consider it a bonus.

WABronco
06-08-2007, 05:07 PM
Not a horrible move, but not a great one either. Kennedy is massive, but he couldn't cut it on a team that's DESPERATE for a big plugger.

Always have to hope that a change of scenery will make a difference, and a 6th isn't a bad deal.

Atlas
06-08-2007, 05:16 PM
Wonder if this signals McKinley playing end fulltime. Also, if Clayton is right
"they've had trouble getting Kennedy to conform to the team's style of defense. They wanted him to be more of a run-stopper. He wanted to shoot the gap and try to disrupt," then why would Denver want him unless it was as a third-down rusher?


McKinley is too big to play DE. Bates likes small quick ends like Moss, Dummerville and Lang. Ammon gordan and Burton and possibly Veal are gone.

Atlas
06-08-2007, 05:20 PM
this is fantastic news, just got off the phone with a rams insider. Linehan never liked him, his work ethic, or his motivation. What people need to understand is that Kennedy was not drafted by the current coaching staff in St. Louis and never won them over with his performance. The rams simply were ready to give up on his physical potential. They tried to trade him during the draft but got no takers.

The reason why bronco fans should be excited is that Kennedy has two things that are hard to find, prototypical size and youth. Factor that in with low risk, a 6th rounder, and you have a low risk/high reward player. Many in St. Louis think Kennedy has a ton of untapped potential, he just needs to find the right coaching staff, and the right motives. A change will do him good!

Don't be surprised to see him starting by the midpoint of the season next to Gerrard Warren. This move will motivate Warren even further, and push adams, mckinley, thomas to excel.

An area of weakness and limited depth has become a strenghth with situational players afforded the opportunity to focus on what they do best.

Defensive End: Lang and Ekuban will start, but will be pushed hard by the rookies. Crowder will sub frequently against the run and eventually start. Moss is a passing down specialist, along with Dumervill, only coming in on passing downs. Lang, Ekuban, and Engleberger will make the team, providing veteran leadership.

Defensive Tackle: Warren and Adams will start in the base package, with Adams being subbed out frequently. McKinley,Kennedy and Thomas will rotate along the line, with so much depth you won't see Warren wearing down like he did the last half of the year. The broncos are very concerned about Gerrards injury history, and now that Kennedy, Thomas, McKinley are onboard an injury to Gerrard won't be catostrophic.

The bottom line is that the D-Line is as loaded for Denver as it has ever been, with a new D-Line coach, a new Defensive Coordinator, and two fantastic cover corners, the broncos will be attacking quarterbacks this year for the first time in a long time. No more read and react zone from Larry Charmin Coyer!

I agree with that. Except Warren didn't wear down he had two dislocated big toes. Damn that would be painful.

Rascal
06-08-2007, 05:26 PM
this is fantastic news, just got off the phone with a rams insider. Linehan never liked him, his work ethic, or his motivation. What people need to understand is that Kennedy was not drafted by the current coaching staff in St. Louis and never won them over with his performance. The rams simply were ready to give up on his physical potential. They tried to trade him during the draft but got no takers.

The reason why bronco fans should be excited is that Kennedy has two things that are hard to find, prototypical size and youth. Factor that in with low risk, a 6th rounder, and you have a low risk/high reward player. Many in St. Louis think Kennedy has a ton of untapped potential, he just needs to find the right coaching staff, and the right motives. A change will do him good!

Don't be surprised to see him starting by the midpoint of the season next to Gerrard Warren. This move will motivate Warren even further, and push adams, mckinley, thomas to excel.

An area of weakness and limited depth has become a strenghth with situational players afforded the opportunity to focus on what they do best.

Defensive End: Lang and Ekuban will start, but will be pushed hard by the rookies. Crowder will sub frequently against the run and eventually start. Moss is a passing down specialist, along with Dumervill, only coming in on passing downs. Lang, Ekuban, and Engleberger will make the team, providing veteran leadership.

Defensive Tackle: Warren and Adams will start in the base package, with Adams being subbed out frequently. McKinley,Kennedy and Thomas will rotate along the line, with so much depth you won't see Warren wearing down like he did the last half of the year. The broncos are very concerned about Gerrards injury history, and now that Kennedy, Thomas, McKinley are onboard an injury to Gerrard won't be catostrophic.

The bottom line is that the D-Line is as loaded for Denver as it has ever been, with a new D-Line coach, a new Defensive Coordinator, and two fantastic cover corners, the broncos will be attacking quarterbacks this year for the first time in a long time. No more read and react zone from Larry Charmin Coyer!

After your last prediction I have to question your "sources".

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=55360

No offense.

SonOfLe-loLang
06-08-2007, 05:28 PM
Where have these "Marcus Thomas looks like crap" rumors even come from? There hasnt even been a minicamp yet! The only thing i remember hearing about him was Bates claiming that there was no doubt he'll be a starter in this league (said at some point during the OTA)

Paladin
06-08-2007, 05:30 PM
1. Kuper looks like the QB. Whasisname. Number three last year. (Gawd. Memory is the second thing to go, isn't it?)

2. Question. didn't the Rams play the three four D? Or some variation of it?

3. I thought "Someone Here Who Knows a Lot" said that DTs take two or three years before they become productive. Sounds like this would be Kennedy's third year.

MechanicalBull
06-08-2007, 05:31 PM
Real linemen aren't pretty. Seriously, he's going to be very good and will be starting this year.

You're saying you dont find Paul Mcquistan from the Raiders good looking? If I had to choose I think I'd rather look like Kuper.

http://www.raidersonline.org/images/paul-mcquistan.jpg

broncs2bowl
06-08-2007, 05:33 PM
After your last prediction I have to question your "sources".

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=55360

No offense.

Yea seriously, where do you get all this "insider" stuff from and why would they tell you. Couple months ago you pissed me off about us taking Ted Ginn being highly likely.

maven
06-08-2007, 05:36 PM
More fatboys for the grinder.

Maximus
06-08-2007, 05:36 PM
I'm loving this... Ratboy taking a page from the Redskins. Keep bringing them in. Team chemistry will be a major problem!

Popcorn Sutton
06-08-2007, 05:39 PM
1. Kuper looks like the QB. Whasisname. Number three last year. (Gawd. Memory is the second thing to go, isn't it?)

2. Question. didn't the Rams play the three four D? Or some variation of it?

3. I thought "Someone Here Who Knows a Lot" said that DTs take two or three years before they become productive. Sounds like this would be Kennedy's third year.

It sounds like they had moved him to nose tackle last year which would indicate 3-4... right? I thought they were 4-3...

Rascal
06-08-2007, 05:42 PM
I'm loving this... Ratboy taking a page from the Redskins. Keep bringing them in. Team chemistry will be a major problem!

LOL

Raider fan making a comment about team chemistry. That's funny.

400HZ
06-08-2007, 05:43 PM
You're saying you dont find Paul Mcquistan from the Raiders good looking? If I had to choose I think I'd rather look like Kuper.

http://www.raidersonline.org/images/paul-mcquistan.jpg

Holy Crap.
ugh!~

Kaylore
06-08-2007, 05:44 PM
Ok I've done some research on this and here's what I found.

The Good

Kennedy is built like the ideal player. He is fast, quick and strong. He also has starting experience, which will help in the competition factor. One thing to consider is that he was playing out of position most of last year. He was not suited for NT and the scheme wasn't condusive to how he used to play. This means coming here and puting him back where he belongs could really go a long way toward helping him contribute. Also consider that this is his contract year so that will give him some incentive to show up.

The Bad

He apparently doesn't have a very good work ethic. I guess he made some mental errors and doesn't give his whole effort very often. A lot of Ram fans didn't think he was very good, but they didn't think he was that bad and are totally surprised at how cheap he was traded for.

The Ugly

The staff let him go with a bunch of rookies on the roster. It's not good that they were so eager to ship him out. There is a chance that the Rams just did this to nab a sixth so they could flip it over for Culpepper which is what Miami is asking for him, but that's just speculation. I guess he really fought with the coaches during a few games last season and he and the staff hate each other. So there are potential character questions.

My thoughts are that he was a guy with high expectations that was asked to play out of position. He reminds me a lot of Warren, actually. If he can come here and do some things right, he'll be solid depth that is young. For a sixth rounder, that's not too shabby and it opens competition up for training camp. That will be fun to watch this year. :) :haw!:

MechanicalBull
06-08-2007, 05:45 PM
God, it's early June, the Broncos still have 7 picks, and people are already whining about the number of picks.

Like the trade.

I agree. I was never a big fan of Kennedy but to give up a 6th for him is totally fine by me. It's better than giving one up for Wilkinson at his age. At least Kennedy has experience in the NFL which can not be said for the 6th rounder we would've ended up picking who may have gotten cut anyway.

Taco John
06-08-2007, 05:45 PM
http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/6807/celebcityeuvfb051920077fr4.jpg


Congratulations on those guys winning that hubcap!

BigBad
06-08-2007, 05:45 PM
I don't think I have ever seen a more desperate team.

Last year it was "Lets get all of those Browns players. Yeah they have stunk so far but gosh darn it we are the Broncos." Your defense was really tough against the run too.Hilarious!

This year its "Lets get ANY defensive lineman we can get our hands on. I don't care if they are fat, old, underachieving, or just flat out stink. Gosh darn it we are the Broncos!"

The only reason I can think of is that Shanahan was tired of watching that pathetic O-line performance last year. So now they are going to PRACTICE the cut blocks that put guys out for the year on some of these throwaways.


Good Luck. You will still be seeing a lot of this.

http://media.dailycamera.com/bdc/content/img/photos/2006/12/10/Broncos_Chargers_Footba(5)_t600.jpg

Taco John
06-08-2007, 05:47 PM
I don't think I have ever seen a more desperate team.



What are you talking about? You guys had Doug Flutie as a starter at one point in time...

Bronco_Beerslug
06-08-2007, 05:48 PM
I don't think I have ever seen a more desperate team.Is that time of day already (Chargers boards quitting time)?

400HZ
06-08-2007, 05:49 PM
What are you talking about? You guys had Doug Flutie as a starter at one point in time...

touche

eddie mac
06-08-2007, 05:50 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if Shanahan has worked this trade in that if Kennedy doesn't make the team the Rams get jack-****. So no loss whatsoever.

eddie mac
06-08-2007, 05:51 PM
I don't think I have ever seen a more desperate team.

Last year it was "Lets get all of those Browns players. Yeah they have stunk so far but gosh darn it we are the Broncos." Your defense was really tough against the run too.Hilarious!

This year its "Lets get ANY defensive lineman we can get our hands on. I don't care if they are fat, old, underachieving, or just flat out stink. Gosh darn it we are the Broncos!"

The only reason I can think of is that Shanahan was tired of watching that pathetic O-line performance last year. So now they are going to PRACTICE the cut blocks that put guys out for the year on some of these throwaways.


Good Luck. You will still be seeing a lot of this.

http://media.dailycamera.com/bdc/content/img/photos/2006/12/10/Broncos_Chargers_Footba(5)_t600.jpg

You better hope that he can run on us considering Rivers wont do **** against our pass D with those crappy receivers.:giggle:

Goobzilla
06-08-2007, 05:52 PM
Ehhh, why not? At least bring him to camp with all the other behemoths we've picked up. Just for fun, here's a list of all our 6th round picks since Terrell Davis. The 6th round is like buying a dollar scratch lotto ticket. Nice if you hit the big one, but if you lose you're only out a buck.

6th round picks since Terrell Davis

1996
181 Denver Tony Veland DB Nebraska

1997 & 1998
None

1999
179 Denver Desmond Clark TE Wake Forest
204 Denver Chad Plummer WR Cincinnati

2000
189 Denver Mike Anderson RB Utah

2001
190 Denve rKevin Kasper WR Iowa

2002
191 Denver Jeb Putzier TE Boise State

2003
194 Denver Aaron Hunt DE Texas Tech

2004
171 Denver Triandos Luke WR Alabama
190 Denver Josh Sewell C Nebraska

2005
200 Denver Chris Myers C Miami

2006
198 Denver Greg Eslinger C Minnesota

2007
None

400HZ
06-08-2007, 05:54 PM
Is he still on his #12 overall salary?

Kaylore
06-08-2007, 05:55 PM
http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/6807/celebcityeuvfb051920077fr4.jpg


Congratulations on those guys winning that hubcap!

It looks like a fondue platter to me.

BigBad
06-08-2007, 05:56 PM
What are you talking about? You guys had Doug Flutie as a starter at one point in time...


I have to admit I laughed out loud at that one. :~ohyah!: Thanks for bringing back images of the midget scrambling around all over the place.

RkyMtnThunder
06-08-2007, 05:57 PM
What are you talking about? You guys had Doug Flutie as a starter at one point in time...

You assume this guy has been a charger fan that long?

Just by the way he talks about 'cut blocks' lets me know he barely understands the game

Jens1893
06-08-2007, 05:59 PM
http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/6807/celebcityeuvfb051920077fr4.jpg


Congratulations on those guys winning that hubcap!

Thank you, but he lifted it the wrong way around when he first got it. It΄s nick named salad bowl here.

footstepsfrom#27
06-08-2007, 06:08 PM
I don't think I have ever seen a more desperate team.
Right...dumping a 6th rounder for a guy taken in the top of the 1st round is a massive gamble....I mean...WHAT IF HE DOESN'T MAKE IT? Yikes!

Kaylore
06-08-2007, 06:16 PM
Right...dumping a 6th rounder for a guy taken in the top of the 1st round is a massive gamble....I mean...WHAT IF HE DOESN'T MAKE IT? Yikes!

Don't forget signing Adams for the veteran minimum. Them's is some crazy moves alright. I think I'm going to go ahead and put BigBad on my ignore list. He doesn't understand football and is here for the sole purpose of trolling. :mullet1:

atomicbloke
06-08-2007, 06:17 PM
People are saying a 6th rounder isn't that much of a big deal because those guys don't pan out anyway. True.

But you are forgetting that 6th rounders can sometimes be great ammunition for pulling of trades or for sweetening the trade in some cases. Sometimes a trade might be in the works and throwing in a 6th rounder or a 6th in exchange for a 7th just tips it over and completes the deal. Hence, it's important to have as many middle/late round picks because of their potential to be used as sweeteners in a bigger trade.

footstepsfrom#27
06-08-2007, 06:25 PM
People are saying a 6th rounder isn't that much of a big deal because those guys don't pan out anyway. True.

But you are forgetting that 6th rounders can sometimes be great ammunition for pulling of trades or for sweetening the trade in some cases. Sometimes a trade might be in the works and throwing in a 6th rounder or a 6th in exchange for a 7th just tips it over and completes the deal. Hence, it's important to have as many middle/late round picks because of their potential to be used as sweeteners in a bigger trade.
I haven't forgotten it. In fact I've argued repeatedly against giving away draft picks for no reason. But a 6th rounder can easily be replaced. Don't you think somebody will give a 6th for Engleberger? Veal? Alexander? Any team with a need and not wanting to risk the waiver wire will part with those picks. This dude was considered a top 5 pick coming out of college, and the most complete D-lineman in the draft. The fact that he is young, big, talented, and healthy, already make him worth the gamble of a 6th. Having these big earth movers in the line and playing in altitude means we need depth or they'll be wearing down in the 2nd half. These rotational guys don't have to be Merlin Olson anyway...as long as they can give us 10-15 snaps a game that's all we need to keep 'em all fresh.

Bob's your Information Minister
06-08-2007, 06:26 PM
Real linemen aren't pretty.

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/4062/will20shields201bvr9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Bob's your Information Minister
06-08-2007, 06:27 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if Shanahan has worked this trade in that if Kennedy doesn't make the team the Rams get jack-****. So no loss whatsoever.

That's quite a homer take. The Rams have your 6th rounder and aren't giving it back.

400HZ
06-08-2007, 06:29 PM
Quite a waste, huh Bob? The Chiefs could have used that pick on their next QBOTF.

Archer81
06-08-2007, 06:35 PM
That's quite a homer take. The Rams have your 6th rounder and aren't giving it back.


Unless Kennedy becomes a probowler...then we fleeced the rams and they are stuck with just a 6th round pick.


:Broncos:

RkyMtnThunder
06-08-2007, 06:40 PM
http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/4062/will20shields201bvr9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Thats your idea of 'pretty' huh?

God it must suck to be you

footstepsfrom#27
06-08-2007, 06:42 PM
Apparently Kennedy played the last two seasons with a sports hernia and a broken hand. That might account for him not setting the world on fire in Saint Louis, especially with the current coaching staff not being the one that drafted hiim. If he's healthy and playing a rotational spot...hard to see a down side here.

elsid13
06-08-2007, 06:43 PM
Just more competition, since some posted that is the last year of deal, then there is little fiscal risk if we cut him. I would say that Warren better be ready to play because there competition/depth behind him.

I wouldn't be surprise if Veal make the team.

Bob's your Information Minister
06-08-2007, 06:44 PM
Thats your idea of 'pretty' huh?

God it must suck to be you

Show me a prettier NFL lineman. That's a good looking man right there.

Bob's your Information Minister
06-08-2007, 06:45 PM
Quite a waste, huh Bob? The Chiefs could have used that pick on their next QBOTF.

I wouldn't say it's a wasted pick but all these trades the Broncos have been making the past few years smacks of desperation.

Jens1893
06-08-2007, 06:48 PM
http://www.jasontaylor99.com/img/JasonC640.jpg
http://www.jasontaylor99.com/img/JasonB600.jpg
http://www.jasontaylor99.com/img/JasonA640.jpg

RkyMtnThunder
06-08-2007, 06:48 PM
Show me a prettier NFL lineman. That's a good looking man right there.

I guess I will have to take your word for it. I dont spend much time pondering which NFL linemen are attractive. But hey, whatever floats your boat!

footstepsfrom#27
06-08-2007, 06:55 PM
I just looked up Williams stats and he had 108 tackles in the last two seasons, starting 16 games last year and 9 in 2005. That's pretty decent production from an interior lineman...certainly worth the blue light special price we paid for him. This should be a very fresh group of D-line guys this year with all this depth.

joe9999
06-08-2007, 06:57 PM
This pic makes Gerard Warren, number 61, look like the most out of shape. Take a look at that belly.

http://web1.denverbroncos.com/resources/custom/Images/blog/070606/OTA_13_8.jpg

Sodak
06-08-2007, 07:28 PM
I know he's my adopted Bronco, but my boy Kuper looks like the German kid in Willy Wonka....

Augustus Gloop!

55CrushEm
06-08-2007, 07:34 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if Shanahan has worked this trade in that if Kennedy doesn't make the team the Rams get jack-****. So no loss whatsoever.

You might very well be right.......on the ESPN News ticker is says that the... "Broncos acquire DT Jimmy Kennedy from Rams for a POSSIBLE 6th round draft pick"

"Possible" ?

MechanicalBull
06-08-2007, 07:42 PM
You might very well be right.......on the ESPN News ticker is says that the... "Broncos acquire DT Jimmy Kennedy from Rams for a POSSIBLE 6th round draft pick"

"Possible" ?

I saw that too. I'm sure there is some type of clause one way or the other of what the actual pick will turn out to be.

Inkana7
06-08-2007, 07:48 PM
I wouldn't say it's a wasted pick but all these trades the Broncos have been making the past few years smacks of desperation.

Champ Bailey? Dre' Bly? The seemingly dozens of trades before the 2006 Draft?

Nice reach, but you got nuttin'.

footstepsfrom#27
06-08-2007, 07:52 PM
It actually sounds like this "might" be the classic case of a player who was in the wrong spot. He got injured his rookie year, didn't quite fit in the team's scheme, got moved to NT...in spite of all that he's been a starter for the last two years...how often do you get a young, big, DT starter for a 6th rounder? Here's the NFL scouting report when he came out...it says he has a great attitude and he's a hard worker. PFW scouting report says he loves the weight room:

Positives: Has excellent size, width and power for his position … Very explosive out of his stance, simply shocking blockers back with his strong arm swipes … Has a tenacious, competitive streak that rivals that of Warren Sapp … Holds his ground firmly at the point of attack, keeping his leg base wide to properly anchor … Very quick to locate the ball and react to the play … Discards blocks instantly with his hand punch and shows great lateral agility for a player his size … Has superb body control and fluid change-of-direction agility … Explosive in-line tackler who easily breaks down the plays to engulf the ball carriers working in space … Rarely taken off his feet due to his superb balance … Has a sudden closing burst and above-average speed to turn upfield … Can split the double teams and push the pocket … Beats blockers across their faces as he penetrates the gaps … Runs well enough to make plays on the boundary … Rips, spins and swims to disengage quickly … Knows how to use his hands to snatch and pull blockers off their base and separate from his opponent … Has a great feel for the ball and when he keeps his pads low, he is the most dominating two-gap lineman in the game.

Negatives: Does not always keep his pad level down, causing him to struggle when pursuing down the line or in the open field … Must stay on top of him in regards to conditioning (was at over 400 pounds at one point earlier in his career), as he tends to raise himself up when he runs out of gas … Delivers a punishing hand punch, but must use his hands better to keep blockers from getting underneath his jersey and into his chest … Has a tenacious streak, but does not play with consistency (stamina issues) … Can penetrate the gaps, but needs to do more in the backfield (get to the quarterback) than to simply break down the pocket.
CAREER NOTES

Appropriately nicknamed the "Grizzly Bear," he uses machine-like precision, personal pride and intensity to crash through the line of scrimmage, sprinting in the direction of whomever has the pigskin … When Jimmy came to State College in the summer of 1998, he weighed more than 400 pounds. Changes in his diet prescribed by the team nutritionist, hard work in all phases of conditioning and strength training, and a desire to succeed, have brought his weight down more than 70 pounds and enhanced his opportunities to become a dominant lineman … The talented and athletic Kennedy has a great attitude and his experience and leadership were essential for a talented, but young defensive unit … He has the size, strength, speed and skills to be a dominating and enthusiastic presence on any defense … Finished his career with 213 tackles (128 solos), 14 sacks for minus-60 yards and 39 stops for losses of 98 yards … His 39 tackles behind the line of scrimmage tied LaVar Arrington (1997-99) for seventh on the school's career-record list.
2002 SEASON

All-America first-team selection by The NFL Draft Report, The Sporting News and Walter Camp, adding third-team honors from the Associated Press … All-Big Ten Conference first-team choice and named Big Ten Defensive Lineman of the Year … Started all year at right defensive tackle, finishing second on the team with a career-high 87 tackles (52 solos) … Second on the squad with 5½ sacks for minus-23 yards and 16 stops for losses of 36 yards … Also deflected 3 passes.

Nebraska - Tackled tailback Dahrran Diedrick behind the line of scrimmage and posted 8 tackles.
Louisiana Tech - Deflected a fourth down pass and delivered 4 tackles.
Iowa and Northwestern - Registered 6 tackles in each game.
Wisconsin - Sacked QB Brooks Bollinger 4 times for minus-16 yards, took down tailback Anthony Davis behind the line of scrimmage and was in on 6 solo tackles.
Michigan - Made 8 tackles (5 solos) and stopped tailback B.J. Askew for a 3-yard loss.
Ohio State - Posted a season-high 12 tackles (7 solos), including 5 stops behind the line of scrimmage (one short of the school game-record of 6 stops for losses by Courtney Brown vs. Wisconsin in 1997).
Illinois - Tackled tailback Antoineo Harris twice for losses, posted 9 hits and deflected a pass.
Indiana - Recorded 8 tackles (5 solos) with a 5-yard sack.
Auburn (Capital One Bowl) - Closed out his career with 9 tackles (6 solos), an assisted sack and a stop behind the line of scrimmage.2001 SEASON

All-Big Ten honorable mention … Started every game at right tackle, participating in 646 plays, as he recorded 51 tackles (30 solos) with 3 sacks for minus-8 yards and 8 stops for losses of 21 yards … Also blocked a kick.
2000 SEASON

Honorable mention All-Big Ten … Took over the right tackle position, seeing action in 788 snaps … Recorded 42 tackles (28 solos) as he tied for the team-lead with 6 sacks for minus-28 yards and also delivered 9 stops for losses of 34 yards … Deflected 2 passes and had a fumble recovery.
1999 SEASON

Played in every game, started six of the team's final seven games at nose guard … Recorded 33 tackles (18 solos) with an assisted sack and six stops behind the line of scrimmage … Deflected four passes.
1998 SEASON

Redshirted as a freshman.
INJURY REPORT

No injuries reported.
CAMPUS AGILITY TESTS

5.12 in the 40-yard dash … 420-pound bench press … 610-pound squat … 29-inch vertical jump.

Inkana7
06-08-2007, 07:53 PM
Good Luck. You will still be seeing a lot of this.

http://media.dailycamera.com/bdc/content/img/photos/2006/12/10/Broncos_Chargers_Footba(5)_t600.jpg

We didn't see any of that until last year. I love you bandwagon Charger fans. Did you see any of us posting pictures of Tatum Bell scoring one of his 3 Touchdowns in San Diego in 05?

"ZOMG t3h ch4rg3rs r w1nn1ng i b3tt3r buy a Lt j3rzy"

~Crash~
06-08-2007, 08:07 PM
Now I see Veal gone and Thomas a PS guy. If Scheffler is healthy, we could trade Alexander for a late rounder I'm sure.


Everyone is talking Veal as soon to be cut but he is running with the first team ?

Inkana7
06-08-2007, 08:10 PM
Everyone is talking Veal as soon to be cut but he is running with the first team ?

Veal was the first backup DT last year, and Myers moved on. That's how it works for Mike. You don't get handed anything. Until someone beat him out, Veal was running with the first team.

Cutler ran with the Third Team offense most of training camp last year.

footstepsfrom#27
06-08-2007, 08:11 PM
If I was a Charger fan I'd be concerned. Denver has made the most improvement in the division, and have fortified weaknesses on the D-line SD was able to exploit last year. Cutler has replaced Plummer and added a year under his belt, he has more weapons, and SD is in the midst of a radical change in coaching...plus they play the 1st place schedule this year. And do we need to talk about who has the coaching edge?

I think not...should be a dogfight this year.

elsid13
06-08-2007, 08:11 PM
Ok which rookie gets that hang nail that force him to the IR???

dragondawg
06-08-2007, 08:13 PM
yah start him warren and adams

dragondawg
06-08-2007, 08:14 PM
We didn't see any of that until last year. I love you bandwagon Charger fans. Did you see any of us posting pictures of Tatum Bell scoring one of his 3 Touchdowns in San Diego in 05?

"ZOMG t3h ch4rg3rs r w1nn1ng i b3tt3r buy a Lt j3rzy"

why are chargers fans on this site anyways?

elsid13
06-08-2007, 08:15 PM
why are chargers fans on this site anyways?

Either they 're trying to figure out how to be real football fans or they're waiting to jump on the Broncos Bandwagon.

mhgaffney
06-08-2007, 08:16 PM
That's how many first round picks on the D line?

Correct me if I'm wrong:

Laing, Ekuban, Adams, Warren and now Kennedy

Not even counting our rookie Moss

talk about being loaded. It just gets better.

footstepsfrom#27
06-08-2007, 08:16 PM
Veal doesn't fit the lard butt profile. He's gone...hopefullyfor a late pick. So is Engleberger...and Thomas will NOT be on the PS. He's going to see the regular rotation. We literally have enough D-line guys to stock two teams right now.

Atlas
06-08-2007, 08:18 PM
I'm loving this... Ratboy taking a page from the Redskins. Keep bringing them in. Team chemistry will be a major problem!


Denver is not the Redskins. Denver isn't the Raiders either. Denver is good.

dragondawg
06-08-2007, 08:18 PM
all these lineman, someone's going to get cut

dragondawg
06-08-2007, 08:19 PM
Either they 're trying to figure out how to be real football fans or they're waiting to jump on the Broncos Bandwagon.

yah or they want to see what their top division rival is up too, i don't think san diego sighed any wel known players this off season?

Atlas
06-08-2007, 08:23 PM
Don't forget signing Adams for the veteran minimum. Them's is some crazy moves alright. I think I'm going to go ahead and put BigBad on my ignore list. He doesn't understand football and is here for the sole purpose of trolling. :mullet1:

I already beat ya to it. I'm not messing around he makes #7!!!

ward63
06-08-2007, 08:26 PM
Veal doesn't fit the lard butt profile. He's gone...hopefullyfor a late pick. So is Engleberger...and Thomas will NOT be on the PS. He's going to see the regular rotation. We literally have enough D-line guys to stock two teams right now.

I meant to say Harris and Burton on the PS.

Kaylore
06-08-2007, 08:33 PM
yah or they want to see what their top division rival is up too, i don't think san diego signed any players this off season?

Fixed your post! :)

fdf
06-08-2007, 08:35 PM
Ok which rookie gets that hang nail that force him to the IR???

Moss.

gunns
06-08-2007, 08:38 PM
If you are discribing Kennedy you are right on. I live in St. Louis and have seen him play his whole NFL career. He clogs up the DEFENSIVE backfield when his big booty gets knocked back into the linebackers.
"Will never see a regular season game as a Bronco"

Notice the quotation marks. We got our pocket picked this time. Everyone in St. Louis is overjoyed his lazy butt is gone, and shocked they got anything for him. Worse than Ryan Simms by a long shot.

I've been hearing it all day from a friend who is a Rams fan. You are absolutely right with that last paragraph. That is exactly how they are reacting.

rubaiyat
06-08-2007, 09:21 PM
I don't know...the part of NOT wanting to run block but to shoor the gap seems troublesome given that is what will likely be asked of him...

Oh well hope it works out.

400HZ
06-08-2007, 09:24 PM
Fixed your post! :)

That's completely noninsulting. There were only a handful of players in free agency or up for trade that could have made San Diego's roster this year and zero that would have provided a major upgrade.

listopencil
06-08-2007, 09:33 PM
Last year our D-Line looked like a big pile of **** with two exceptions. Elvis and Warren. Elvis because he was a rookie and Warren because he was hurt. The other guys aren't all bad players, so much. Just not an impact player among them that I could see. If we off the entire D-Line from last year (except for those two) it wouldn't bother me a bit. I want to have at least eight D-Linemen on the roster. Nine would be nice. Ten? I'd rather have ten D-Linemen than three Kickers, five TE's and a Long Snapper.

400HZ
06-08-2007, 09:36 PM
If I was a Charger fan I'd be concerned. Denver has made the most improvement in the division, and have fortified weaknesses on the D-line SD was able to exploit last year. Cutler has replaced Plummer and added a year under his belt, he has more weapons, and SD is in the midst of a radical change in coaching...plus they play the 1st place schedule this year. And do we need to talk about who has the coaching edge?

I think not...should be a dogfight this year.

Denver has definetely made the biggest attempt at improvement. Whether that attempt will produce results remains to be seen. Bring in a whole group of new faces isn't always the best way to improve. The most improved team in the division last year was San Diego and they brought in ONE (1) free agent starter in 06. The team with argueably the biggest fall off in the NFL was Washington who brought in a load of new players.

I'm more worried about what San Diego is doing than what Denver is doing. I know posting on here might contradict that, but it's true. :thumbsup:

When I think about Denver, I look back on our games last year. Ending the first game on a 28-6 run and then winning the next game 48-20. I think as long as the Chargers take care of their own business, Denver shouldn't pose much of a problem.

Inkana7
06-08-2007, 09:46 PM
Denver has definetely made the biggest attempt at improvement. Whether that attempt will produce results remains to be seen. Bring in a whole group of new faces isn't always the best way to improve. The most improved team in the division last year was San Diego and they brought in ONE (1) free agent starter in 06. The team with argueably the biggest fall off in the NFL was Washington who brought in a load of new players.

I'm more worried about what San Diego is doing than what Denver is doing. I know posting on here might contradict that, but it's true. :thumbsup:

When I think about Denver, I look back on our games last year. Ending the first game on a 28-6 run and then winning the next game 48-20. I think as long as the Chargers take care of their own business, Denver shouldn't pose much of a problem.

You're kidding right? Before this season, Denver owned San Diego. Let me remind you that we swept you in 2005. The Denver team you saw in 2006 was nothing close to what a Broncos team usually is. One game featured Jake Plummer playing what, his second to last game? And another featured a rookie QB in his second start and a defense that was completely beaten and tired from a season of making up for our anemic offense's problems.

400HZ
06-08-2007, 09:58 PM
You're kidding right? Before this season, Denver owned San Diego. Let me remind you that we swept you in 2005. The Denver team you saw in 2006 was nothing close to what a Broncos team usually is. One game featured Jake Plummer playing what, his second to last game? And another featured a rookie QB in his second start and a defense that was completely beaten and tired from a season of making up for our anemic offense's problems.

On the flip side San Diego was fielding a defense with a ton of injured players and backups in game one, and then got to a 28-3 halftime lead in the second game before letting up.

gunns
06-08-2007, 10:05 PM
I don't think I have ever seen a more desperate team.

Oh I think you have. 46 years of desperation.

-Slap-
06-08-2007, 10:08 PM
Sounds to me like one or more of the crew has been less than impressive. Who gets cut???

I agree. This trade makes me think the group as a whole has not impressed so far.

Inkana7
06-08-2007, 10:10 PM
On the flip side San Diego was fielding a defense with a ton of injured players and backups in game one, and then got to a 28-3 halftime lead in the second game before letting up.

But they had the offense to make up for that. In the first game Denver's defense was starting to crumble and the offense was horrid. In the second game, the offense showed some life in the 2nd half when it was too late, and the defense was beaten and done for the season. The 2006 Broncos displayed one of the worst 2nd half collapses in NFL history, IMO, and both Chargers games were right in the middle of that.

That is not what you will see in the future. Denver and San Diego will be battling for the AFC West for the foreseeable future.

OBF1
06-08-2007, 10:17 PM
CBF1 approves of this move. I liked him when he came out of school. Excellent pick up and on the cheap side as well. Let's get this thing started .

footstepsfrom#27
06-08-2007, 10:27 PM
Denver has definetely made the biggest attempt at improvement. Whether that attempt will produce results remains to be seen. Bring in a whole group of new faces isn't always the best way to improve. The most improved team in the division last year was San Diego and they brought in ONE (1) free agent starter in 06. The team with argueably the biggest fall off in the NFL was Washington who brought in a load of new players.
Bly, Henry and Graham alone will make Denver better, and there's not much use debating that, not to mention the Jay for Jake swap...a no brainer. Second, comparing Washington's use of the free agency market with Denver's is absurd...Snyder's been running around like a chicken with his head cut off.
I'm more worried about what San Diego is doing than what Denver is doing. I know posting on here might contradict that, but it's true. :thumbsup:
No...you wouldn't be in here consistently if you weren't at least concerned about the Broncos.
When I think about Denver, I look back on our games last year. Ending the first game on a 28-6 run and then winning the next game 48-20. I think as long as the Chargers take care of their own business, Denver shouldn't pose much of a problem.
And so you think that based on last year, things will continue as they did next season? It doesn't work like that. Nice spin on the head to head games too. In the first game, Denver had San Diego on the ropes even though we had Plummer running the show, and he was already on his last leggs, but the defense was already headed for collapse by this point in the season. You may have noticed a lot of things have been done to fix that problem this time. The second game you got Cutler with one whole game under his belt, and the final score was padded by a couple of cheap SD touchdowns when Shanny decided to go for it on 4th downs in our own territory late in the game and missed. If you think those two games have cemented us as "not much of a problem" from this point forward, well I hope your new coach feels that way too.

But I doubt it. He's pretty used to getting owned by Shanahan.

Kaylore
06-08-2007, 10:42 PM
I agree. This trade makes me think the group as a whole has not impressed so far.

I had that worry, but it's just too early to go there. I think more likely would be the second and third string tackles don't fit the system and they need to keep depth that fits what we're doing. Shanahan has always been good about finding and keeping quality depth. Hopefully Kennedy can become at least that.

bdv
06-08-2007, 10:44 PM
Hmmmm...

Surplus of quality DL + lack of quality LB = 5-2 defense? :juggle:

Bob's your Information Minister
06-08-2007, 10:53 PM
Surplus of quality DL :

Let's not get carried away here.

Inkana7
06-08-2007, 11:00 PM
They're more talented as a whole than the scrubs Kansas City has. Allen's much better than anyone we have and Hali might be, but other than that, Denver's more talented, and much deeper.

Xenos
06-08-2007, 11:33 PM
Bly, Henry and Graham alone will make Denver better, and there's not much use debating that, not to mention the Jay for Jake swap...a no brainer. Second, comparing Washington's use of the free agency market with Denver's is absurd...Snyder's been running around like a chicken with his head cut off.

No...you wouldn't be in here consistently if you weren't at least concerned about the Broncos.

And so you think that based on last year, things will continue as they did next season? It doesn't work like that. Nice spin on the head to head games too. In the first game, Denver had San Diego on the ropes even though we had Plummer running the show, and he was already on his last leggs, but the defense was already headed for collapse by this point in the season. You may have noticed a lot of things have been done to fix that problem this time. The second game you got Cutler with one whole game under his belt, and the final score was padded by a couple of cheap SD touchdowns when Shanny decided to go for it on 4th downs in our own territory late in the game and missed. If you think those two games have cemented us as "not much of a problem" from this point forward, well I hope your new coach feels that way too.

But I doubt it. He's pretty used to getting owned by Shanahan.

Oh it'll definitely be an interesting matchup like it always is. It'll be the battle of the trenches again. Our oline versus your new acquired dline. Our dline versus your somewhat new oline with the return of Lepsis. Who knows how it'll turn out.
Then there's the side things. Will your linebacking corp be as good or better than last year with DJ moving into the MLB position and Al Wilson gone? Will our secondary improve even more this year with the addition of Weddle? Interesting things such as that.

Bob's your Information Minister
06-08-2007, 11:36 PM
They're more talented as a whole than the scrubs Kansas City has. Allen's much better than anyone we have and Hali might be, but other than that, Denver's more talented, and much deeper.

That's ridiculous, especially considering our draft.

Inkana7
06-08-2007, 11:41 PM
I like our draft better than yours. And outside of Allen and maybe Hali, who else does Kansas City have? No one.

Xenos
06-08-2007, 11:42 PM
yah or they want to see what their top division rival is up too, i don't think san diego sighed any wel known players this off season?

We resigned the well known players on our team like Shaun Phillips and Kris Dielman. Those two took up a large chunk of the 25 million cap space. Then another amount had to be used to pay our depth players like Malcolm Floyd, Derrick Robinson, Marque Harris, and Lerkerkerker. Floyd and Lerkerkerker have a lot of potential in their respective positions.
In the end that's really all that matters. We've gotten to a point where it's better to take care of our own than to bring someone else. Just because it may be the trend nowadays doesn't mean that it's always the right thing to do for a team like ours.
Also the only major need positions that we needed was safety and another wide receiver, and we addressed those in the draft.

Bob's your Information Minister
06-08-2007, 11:48 PM
I like our draft better than yours. And outside of Allen and maybe Hali, who else does Kansas City have? No one.

You're ignorant. We spent second and third-round picks on defensive tackles, one of whom (Tank Tyler) was coveted by many here on the Mane.

Last year's starters are now backups, meaning we have incredible depth. No longer will we rely on Ryan Sims.

We also brought in Alphonso Boone to add to our quality depth.

Inkana7
06-08-2007, 11:50 PM
You're ignorant.

And you avoided my question. Who else does KC have?

Bob's your Information Minister
06-08-2007, 11:53 PM
And you avoided my question. Who else does KC have?

I did not avoid your question. I answered it.

The best defensive tackle on Denver's roster is the kid from Florida. He might be a good player. The rest are a bunch of retreads. Jarvis Moss is an interesting prospect, as is Crowder. Lang and Ekuban are quality depth.

BroncoBuff
06-09-2007, 12:10 AM
f u boob


"the kid from florida" ?!?

Just go away

Play2win
06-09-2007, 01:02 AM
f u boob


"the kid from florida" ?!?

Just go away

He should already Be AWAY...

400HZ
06-09-2007, 01:15 AM
Bly, Henry and Graham alone will make Denver better, and there's not much use debating that, not to mention the Jay for Jake swap...a no brainer. Second, comparing Washington's use of the free agency market with Denver's is absurd...Snyder's been running around like a chicken with his head cut off.

The Skins of 06 were a perfect example of a team being overactive and screwing the team chemistry up. While Denver has done pretty well with roster turnover in the past, they haven't done anything as extensive as they did this year. Chemistry could very well be an issue for the Broncos.


No...you wouldn't be in here consistently if you weren't at least concerned about the Broncos.


Like I said, if San Diego takes care of their own business they should be able to handle Denver. The talent on the two teams is lopsided and Jimmy Kennedy isn't changing that.



And so you think that based on last year, things will continue as they did next season? It doesn't work like that. Nice spin on the head to head games too. In the first game, Denver had San Diego on the ropes even though we had Plummer running the show, and he was already on his last leggs, but the defense was already headed for collapse by this point in the season.

And like I said, San Diego was missing a whole grip of players on defense. They had so many injuries that they couldn't run certain defensive packages during that game. Neither team was in an ideal situation that week, but San Diego overcame and Denver didn't. I think the deciding factor there was the talent level of the players.



You may have noticed a lot of things have been done to fix that problem this time. The second game you got Cutler with one whole game under his belt, and the final score was padded by a couple of cheap SD touchdowns when Shanny decided to go for it on 4th downs in our own territory late in the game and missed. If you think those two games have cemented us as "not much of a problem" from this point forward, well I hope your new coach feels that way too.

The Chargers got some cheap touchdowns at the end, and the Broncos got some cheap touchdowns from SD letting up, turning the ball over, and committing stupid penalties in the 3rd. Once SD pulled their shht back together and started playing again Denver couldn't do anything.

But I doubt it. He's pretty used to getting owned by Shanahan.

Marty had a bad record against Shanahan too. The talent on the field was enough to overcome that last year. You sound convinced that the roster moves Denver made this year have overcome that gap, but right now I'd have to disagree. The Broncos definetely added quantity, but the quality remains to be seen.

Mediator12
06-09-2007, 01:18 AM
I did not avoid your question. I answered it.

The best defensive tackle on Denver's roster is the kid from Florida. He might be a good player. The rest are a bunch of retreads. Jarvis Moss is an interesting prospect, as is Crowder. Lang and Ekuban are quality depth.

Oh, come on! You have no under tackle to play the cover two, no quality DE depth, and a whole bunch of average cover two NT's with no real playmakers there either. The two kids you drafted were solid College players overshadowed by superior temamates for most of their careers. McBride is the closest thing to an UT you have and he lacks the quickness and Strength to make a push inside. Tyler has just about as many character issues as Thomas with far less talent. The sad thing is the Bears fourth best DT last year might be KC's best in Boone.

DEN has brought players that fit their system in as they change their scheme. I have no clue what KC has brought in unless they are changing schemes as well but I have heard nothing there.

And before you go spouting off a retort, remember I told you the DT's you would play last year did not fit the cover two mold either and they proved it. Edwards and Reed are role players and KC drafted the wrong position in a deep DE draft by gambling for McBride and Tyler.

Bob's your Information Minister
06-09-2007, 01:24 AM
Haha. Tyler less talented than Thomas. That's a hoot.

SoCalBronco
06-09-2007, 01:26 AM
Haha. Tyler less talented than Thomas. That's a hoot.

Bob, DeMarcus Tyler was nothing until he had a very good senior year. Before all the incidents, Marcus Thomas was a top 15 draft pick and in the five games he played this season he had several TFLs and 4 sacks.

bronco610
06-09-2007, 01:33 AM
What is amazing to me is Denver has one so so year where we dont finish ahead of the chief and the chargers and the trolls come in here and say how much better they are than the Broncos. Sorry cief and charger fans after this season you can go back to wishful thinking. Just my honest opinion. I cant wait for the season to start, that is the only true gage of any of the teams. boob and 40hz will give their opinions also and being rival fans believe they can make a difference. How sad. MY opinion wont make the Broncos any worse or better but at least I Know the team that has the most sucess over the years and that is a Fact boob and 40hz cant argue.
!Booya! !Booya! !Booya! !Booya! !Booya!

Mediator12
06-09-2007, 01:35 AM
Haha. Tyler less talented than Thomas. That's a hoot.

Tyler was benched his junior year Bob and only got his job back when the guy who beat him out had a season ending injury (John McCargo and Demario Pressley were the Starters) and then graduated because he had played too many games to get a medical redshirt. But whatever else you want to cherry pick, go right ahead and I'll make you look just as stupid.

Oh, and I thought someone with as much Knowledge about the Chiefs draft picks would know that! ROFL! LOL

Bob's your Information Minister
06-09-2007, 01:35 AM
You guys are amusing.

Bob's your Information Minister
06-09-2007, 01:37 AM
I wonder why the Chiefs didn't draft Thomas in the third round. GOD DAMMIT CARL!!!! HERM YOU MORON!

Florida_Bronco
06-09-2007, 01:40 AM
Don't tell me Bobo is going to argue football with Med.

For all you newbies out there, watch this thread, because you're going to see an idiot who thinks he knows football get taken to school by someone who actually knows what he is talking about.

This is gonna be good.

http://dot.kelder.net/~jones/popcorn/img/popcorn.gif

bronco610
06-09-2007, 01:42 AM
Don't tell me Bobo is going to argue football with Med.

For all you newbies out there, watch this thread, because you're going to see an idiot who thinks he knows football get taken to school by someone who actually knows what he is talking about.

This is gonna be good.

http://dot.kelder.net/~jones/popcorn/img/popcorn.gif

Hey Florida, do you suppose we could sell tickets?:thumbsup:

Florida_Bronco
06-09-2007, 01:43 AM
Hey Florida, do you suppose we could sell tickets?:thumbsup:

Unfortunately, Bob gets taken to school far too often on this board for us to make any kind of serious profit.

Mediator12
06-09-2007, 01:44 AM
I wonder why the Chiefs didn't draft Thomas in the third round. GOD DAMMIT CARL!!!! HERM YOU MORON!

For the same reason Carl drafted Ryan Sims and Junior Siavii :welcome:

Carl has never found a quality DT in as long as I can Remember.

Bob's your Information Minister
06-09-2007, 01:44 AM
Haha. I'm not interested in arguing with anyone.

So much for your "don't pay attention to Bob" campaign, you retard!

Bob's your Information Minister
06-09-2007, 01:45 AM
For the same reason Carl drafted Ryan Sims and Junior Siavii :welcome:

Carl has never found a quality DT in as long as I can Remember.

Both of those were Vermeil/Gunther picks.

Florida_Bronco
06-09-2007, 01:46 AM
For the same reason Carl drafted Ryan Sims and Junior Siavii :welcome:

Carl has never found a quality DT in as long as I can Remember.

OUCH! That's gonna leave a mark! LOL

bronco610
06-09-2007, 01:48 AM
Of course not boob, all you can do is quote ststs and deflect. Someone like Med is so far out of you league it isnt even funny!!! And your supposed to be a sports writer.ROFL! ROFL! ROFL!

Mediator12
06-09-2007, 01:49 AM
Both of those were Vermeil/Gunther picks.

And, Herm brought in those stalwarts Reed And Edwards :wave: What's your point? They drafted poor fitting DT's into their Scheme and still have no proven UT for the second year running.

Florida_Bronco
06-09-2007, 01:52 AM
Of course not boob, all you can do is quote ststs and deflect. Someone like Med is so far out of you league it isnt even funny!!! And your supposed to be a sports writer.ROFL! ROFL! ROFL!

Have you seen some of the garbage he writes? I mean seriously, any 13 year old who's played a few years of peewee football could turn out the articles he does.

bronco610
06-09-2007, 01:56 AM
Have you seen some of the garbage he writes? I mean seriously, any 13 year old who's played a few years of peewee football could turn out the articles he does.

Thats an insult to everyone who has ever played peewee football and I demand an apology!!! Peewee is way over boobs head!:wiggle:

Florida_Bronco
06-09-2007, 02:14 AM
Thats an insult to everyone who has ever played peewee football and I demand an apology!!! Peewee is way over boobs head!:wiggle:

You're absolutely right, and I apologize to anyone who I may have offended.

^5

bronco610
06-09-2007, 02:21 AM
You're absolutely right, and I apologize to anyone who I may have offended.

^5

Doesnt matter now as boob has left the building. Just couldnt take the pressure and his dad zack didnt come to his rescue. I guess he just went home crying after a slight altercation with Med. Sounds like something someone with no honor would do!

footstepsfrom#27
06-09-2007, 02:23 AM
The Skins of 06 were a perfect example of a team being overactive and screwing the team chemistry up. While Denver has done pretty well with roster turnover in the past, they haven't done anything as extensive as they did this year. Chemistry could very well be an issue for the Broncos.
When has chemistry ever been a problem in Denver? It hasn't. Shanny gets rid of malcontents. If team chemistry were ever going to be an issue, it would have been last year when he dumped Jake and threw Cutler into the mix as a rookie.
Like I said, if San Diego takes care of their own business they should be able to handle Denver. The talent on the two teams is lopsided and Jimmy Kennedy isn't changing that.
I don't think the talent is lopsided anymore. Cutler, Javon, Marshall, Graham, Scheffler, Rod and Henry is a lot of firepower on offense and if Lepsis is healthy our line should obviously be much better since Foster is finally gone. On defense, the line is better, and so is the secondary...the LB's?...remains to be seen but on balance the D should be better overall. It certainly won't be smallish and subject to a second half colapse like last year when they got worn down.
And like I said, San Diego was missing a whole grip of players on defense. They had so many injuries that they couldn't run certain defensive packages during that game. Neither team was in an ideal situation that week, but San Diego overcame and Denver didn't. I think the deciding factor there was the talent level of the players.
Uh huh...and having Jake in there in the midst of his death rattle and Cutler with all of one game's experience was inconsequential right? Gimme a break...the QB situation in both games was huge and you know it.
The Chargers got some cheap touchdowns at the end, and the Broncos got some cheap touchdowns from SD letting up, turning the ball over, and committing stupid penalties in the 3rd. Once SD pulled their shht back together and started playing again Denver couldn't do anything.
You don't know if SD let up or not. I can use the same reasoning for the first game where we were way ahead.
Marty had a bad record against Shanahan too. The talent on the field was enough to overcome that last year. You sound convinced that the roster moves Denver made this year have overcome that gap, but right now I'd have to disagree. The Broncos definetely added quantity, but the quality remains to be seen.
I wouldn't even dream of comparing Marty and his 200-125 record with Turner and his pathetic 58-82 record. And nobody thinks that adding Henry, Graham and Bly alone hasn't bumped Denver's talent level considerably...even if you ignored the advantages of Cutler over Plummer entirely.

Before you open this discussion you ought to think about winning something. Since your last Superbowl in '94 you're 87-103 and 0-3 in the playoffs, and you have a coach who has proven absolutely NOTHING. BTW...the Chargers were 9-7 in 2005...just like we were last year...and then went 14-2 when they switched to Rivers.

But I guess you can't see the parallels can you?

ZONA
06-09-2007, 02:49 AM
If everything is so great in Charger land, why was it that they had to have so many come from behind performances to win those games? It says alot that they were actually able to comeback and win those games but it says alot that they were down by double digits a few times in the 4th quarter. Not to mention they were very lucky to avoid the injury bug last year. Normally that doesn't happen two years in a row. Oh, and by the way, they get to play a 1st place schedule this year and feel what we've been feeling for years. Our schedule was brutal last year.

So lets lay this out.

* Entire new coaching staff - that alone usually means things will not be smooth sailing. Then consider it's Norv and now you really have to wonder.

* First place schedule - lets see how they like it.

* No major injuries last year - not that it's a given they will have them this year but that carma usually doesn't stay away for long.

* Not a great draft and no FA signing worth talking about - not that they had to do alot but when you don't win a playoff game, normally that means you have room to improve. I guess the Bolts didn't think so.

* At least Denver can beat the Pats, and we usually do. What if SD has to meet them again this year in the playoffs...........hmmmm.

footstepsfrom#27
06-09-2007, 03:02 AM
Losing Wade Phillips is also going to hurt them.

JCMElway
06-09-2007, 03:03 AM
Well, we know who can stop the Chargers. Who ever plays them in the playoffs.

wooooooo, burn!

dragondawg
06-09-2007, 03:20 AM
New Broncos defensive lineman eager for fresh start

By Jeff Legwold, Rocky Mountain News

<!-- /byline -->
ENGLEWOOD — He is a Kennedy, all right. And right now he's not asking what the Broncos can do for him but what he can do for the Broncos.
And make no mistake, he's ecstatic for the opportunity.
"My career right now, I understand what's happened to me, but I have high hopes for myself," said Jimmy Kennedy, the Broncos' newest defensive tackle. "I know what I can do, I know what I can still do. The reality is, I had three different defensive coordinators in my four years in St. Louis and they all thought differently about me, had different ideas about how I should play.
"I'm just looking to come out there and turn my career around, get a good start and keep it going."
After several days of talks, the Broncos shipped a sixth-round pick in the 2008 draft to the Rams on Friday for Kennedy. He was the 12th pick of the first round in the 2003 draft.
Kennedy frustrated Rams officials at times with his play, but he was equally frustrated having played for those three defensive coordinators — Lovie Smith (2003), Larry Marmie (2004-2005) and Jim Haslett (2006).
After the Rams drafted University of Nebraska defensive lineman Adam Carriker in the first round this year and Kennedy met recently with Rams coaches, the veteran figured Carriker, a defensive end with the Cornhuskers, would get the first look to start alongside La'Roi Glover at defensive tackle.
"Let's just say I knew something was going to happen with me," Kennedy said. "It was just terrible communication on their part. But I like Adam. He's a young guy; I wish him all the best.
"For me, I'm just looking forward to a fresh start and being somewhere I'm wanted and try to make a difference for a team trying to win a Super Bowl."
The 330-pound Kennedy becomes the 17th defensive linemen on the Broncos roster — they signed Sam Adams on Monday — and the ninth defensive tackle as they try to adjust their defensive front to fit assistant head coach/ defense Jim Bates' scheme.
Bates prefers bigger defensive tackles than the Broncos have had in recent seasons in order to try to keep offensive linemen off the linebackers and allow the pass rushers at defensive end more room to work.
And Kennedy has had 50-tackle seasons each of the past two years, something no other defensive tackle on the current Broncos roster has done in that span.
"The more we go through the (organized team activities), the more we go through minicamps, the more we sit and listen to the new defensive staff, at least as a personnel staff we're getting a better idea of what they're needing there," Broncos general manager Ted Sundquist said. "And this was opportunity, not as much as need or that we were unhappy with anyone we have. This was opportunity.
"You can't draft a man (that big) who runs like that and has that athletic ability in the late rounds. You just can't do it."
Kennedy also fits the contractual mold Broncos coach Mike Shanahan likes in those looking for a career rebound. Kennedy is in the last year of the five-year, $9 million deal he signed as a rookie, which means he is making a base salary of $760,000, which the Broncos can take on rather easily.
The team has made it clear it will sign players who perform to long-term extensions, which means Kennedy knows he is likely playing for a potentially bigger deal down the road.
Kennedy fractured his right hand in the Rams' 18-10 win against the Broncos in the 2006 season opener. He did not miss a game, though, despite playing with a cast on his hand in some of the 16 games he started for the first time in his career.
Kennedy missed seven games in 2004 because of a fractured foot.
"I can't wait, I'm just looking forward to a new start," Kennedy said. "I'm happy they're welcoming me with open arms."
"He just fits what we're looking for on the interior," Sundquist said. "He's a big massive guy ... who played with a lot more strength, I thought, last year. If he plays well, we'll do everything we can to get him extended."
Kennedy said he plans to visit the Broncos' complex next week after arriving in town Sunday night and will participate in the team's July 9-11 minicamp.
To make room for Kennedy on the roster, the Broncos released cornerback Eric Hill, a Denver native.
High hopes
Defensive tackle Jimmy Kennedy said he comes to Denver seeking a "fresh start."
<TABLE><TBODY><TR><TD class=bodytext>Year</TD><TD class=bodytext>Games </TD><TD class=bodytext>Started</TD><TD class=bodytext>Tackles</TD><TD class=bodytext>Sacks</TD></TR><TR><TD class=bodytext>2003</TD><TD class=bodytext>13</TD><TD class=bodytext>0</TD><TD class=bodytext>10</TD><TD class=bodytext>0</TD></TR><TR><TD class=bodytext>2004</TD><TD class=bodytext>9</TD><TD class=bodytext>5</TD><TD class=bodytext>31</TD><TD class=bodytext>0</TD></TR><TR><TD class=bodytext>2005</TD><TD class=bodytext>15</TD><TD class=bodytext>9</TD><TD class=bodytext>53</TD><TD class=bodytext>4</TD></TR><TR><TD class=bodytext>2006</TD><TD class=bodytext>16</TD><TD class=bodytext>16</TD><TD class=bodytext>55</TD><TD class=bodytext>1</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>Note: Stats are from coaches' video breakdown.


http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/nfl/article/0,2777,DRMN_23918_5576893,00.html

Xenos
06-09-2007, 04:15 AM
If everything is so great in Charger land, why was it that they had to have so many come from behind performances to win those games? It says alot that they were actually able to comeback and win those games but it says alot that they were down by double digits a few times in the 4th quarter. Not to mention they were very lucky to avoid the injury bug last year. Normally that doesn't happen two years in a row. Oh, and by the way, they get to play a 1st place schedule this year and feel what we've been feeling for years. Our schedule was brutal last year.

So lets lay this out.

* Entire new coaching staff - that alone usually means things will not be smooth sailing. Then consider it's Norv and now you really have to wonder.

* First place schedule - lets see how they like it.
All I have to say is that after 2005, this schedule is actually not that bad. The really hard games are at the beginning, but they're more than doable
* No major injuries last year - not that it's a given they will have them this year but that carma usually doesn't stay away for long.

* Not a great draft and no FA signing worth talking about - not that they had to do alot but when you don't win a playoff game, normally that means you have room to improve. I guess the Bolts didn't think so.

* At least Denver can beat the Pats, and we usually do. What if SD has to meet them again this year in the playoffs...........hmmmm.
Dude for the last time, we had a lot of key defensive injuries during that time period. Saying that we avoided the injury bug is not true. We lost our best DE during for several weeks in Castillo, and our other DE Igor was still recovering from an earlier ankle problem. Shaun Phillips was also fighting a high ankle injury and McCree was also fighting his own injuries.
Also, the only major games where we were down by double digits was the Bengal and first Bronco's game.

And you make it sound like it's a bad thing that we didn't sign someone else from another team. We did have FA signings, only with our guys, who are still young and will improve this upcoming season. Everything else was essentially addressed in the draft, which I don't understand why people are so down on. It addressed our needs.
We lost the Pat's game because of two main reasons: 1) stupid mistakes like a fumbled punt, a stupid headbutt, and an interception turned fumble by McCree; 2) Cam Cameron running LT only 9 times in the second half. 9 freaking times! Even after he completely decimated the Patriot's defensein the first half, Cam decides to completely ignore him in the second half.
Essentially, the playoff loss really didn't have anything to do with talent. It was all mental. Guys that were usually clutch, like Eric Parker, just had a mental lapse. The same could be said for Cameron and his stupid gameplan.

Xenos
06-09-2007, 04:18 AM
Losing Wade Phillips is also going to hurt them.

I actually don't think so. Phillips had some great schemes, but it also suffered from the Larry Coyer syndrome ie. the need to play prevent at the worst possible time, most evident in the Patriots game. The Ravens game was another example. If Cottrell would actually stop doing that then he'll be better than Wade.

thumpc
06-09-2007, 04:27 AM
Wade was the best thing to ever happen to the Bolts.

Xenos
06-09-2007, 04:59 AM
Wade was the best thing to ever happen to the Bolts.
Not the best thing to happen. He was a good DC that's for sure.

cutthemdown
06-09-2007, 05:51 AM
I actually don't think so. Phillips had some great schemes, but it also suffered from the Larry Coyer syndrome ie. the need to play prevent at the worst possible time, most evident in the Patriots game. The Ravens game was another example. If Cottrell would actually stop doing that then he'll be better than Wade.

actually I think to say your coaching staff didn't get all screwed up is pretty funny. We are talking about losing both the Head Coach, the D coord, And the O coord. That's unheard of for a team that is a contender. The reason it's unheard of is because it's really really stupid and most teams aren't that dumb. Spanos once again showed what an idiot he is.

Atlas
06-09-2007, 06:12 AM
Hmmmm...

Surplus of quality DL + lack of quality LB = 5-2 defense? :juggle:


We ran a 5-2 defense in college. You can get good pressure on the QB if you have fast DE's.

Broncojef
06-09-2007, 07:41 AM
I wonder why the Chiefs didn't draft Thomas in the third round. GOD DAMMIT CARL!!!! HERM YOU MORON!

I pray every night CP/Herm and Al Davis stay in the AFC West.

fdf
06-09-2007, 08:08 AM
I had that worry, but it's just too early to go there. I think more likely would be the second and third string tackles don't fit the system and they need to keep depth that fits what we're doing. Shanahan has always been good about finding and keeping quality depth. Hopefully Kennedy can become at least that.

Agreed. We had one lineman last year that fit Bates' prototype--Warren. Thomas is a rookie and cannot be relied on to anchor a defense. So the logical response to that is to go hire an entire rotation that fits Bates' system. We just completed that process as we now have four veteran big-bodies plus Thomas learning the ropes.

The conclusion I draw from that is that, absent injury or poor performance, these five guys are the DT's next year.

elsid13
06-09-2007, 10:09 AM
So we got a vetern tackle for $760K this year in last year of his deal. So motivation is going to be on his side to play well for that next deal. Nice. Like I said before Warren better have his **** together, because there are a lot of hungery players behind him.

400HZ
06-09-2007, 10:54 AM
When has chemistry ever been a problem in Denver? It hasn't. Shanny gets rid of malcontents. If team chemistry were ever going to be an issue, it would have been last year when he dumped Jake and threw Cutler into the mix as a rookie.

I admitted that it hasn't been a problem in the past, but I also can't remember Denver doing anything as dramatic as this year. Their draft was full of players with potential character concerns, Travis Henry has tested positive twice, Dre Bly threw his young quarterback under the bus in Detroit..I'm probably forgetting a few too. Now just to reiterate I wouldn't bet on chemistry issues hurting Denver this year, just that I'd be concerned if I was a donkey fan.


I don't think the talent is lopsided anymore. Cutler, Javon, Marshall, Graham, Scheffler, Rod and Henry is a lot of firepower on offense and if Lepsis is healthy our line should obviously be much better since Foster is finally gone. On defense, the line is better, and so is the secondary...the LB's?...remains to be seen but on balance the D should be better overall. It certainly won't be smallish and subject to a second half colapse like last year when they got worn down.

Rivers > Cutler
LT and Turner both > Henry
Gates and Manu > Scheffler and Graham
SD O line >>>>> Denver O line

SD D line >>>>> Denver D line
SD Linebackers > Denver linebackers
SD Special Teams > Denver Special teams

The only talent advantage Denver has is at WR and in the secondary. Which players that were brought in are gonna prevent the somewhat traditional Denver 2nd half defensive collapse this year?

Sorry but that just looks very lopsided to me.


Uh huh...and having Jake in there in the midst of his death rattle and Cutler with all of one game's experience was inconsequential right? Gimme a break...the QB situation in both games was huge and you know it.

You don't know if SD let up or not. I can use the same reasoning for the first game where we were way ahead.

The difference is that after SD had let up in the 3rd they stopped screwing around and shut Denver out in the 4th. In the first game SD just scored touchdowns on all 4 of their last possessions and the Broncos D could do nothing. If they were worn down last year, what's preventing the same thing from happening this year? I know you'll say the golden boy Cutler, but to me his impact on defense remains to be seen.


I wouldn't even dream of comparing Marty and his 200-125 record with Turner and his pathetic 58-82 record. And nobody thinks that adding Henry, Graham and Bly alone hasn't bumped Denver's talent level considerably...even if you ignored the advantages of Cutler over Plummer entirely.

When I said SD needs to take care of their own business, that's what I'm talking about. The new coaches need to concentrate on bringing out the talent in their players. If they can do that then it won't matter what Shanahan does.
Those players you mentioned upped the talent level on the Broncos squad, but is it gonna match the realized talent gain from the young guys on SD's squad continuing to develop? There are two opposite philosophies on the Broncos compared to the Chargers. Denver seeks out veterans who they hope can provide an upgrade, and San Diego focuses on drafting well and then letting young talent develop. The difference between going 9-7 in 05 and 14-2 in 06 wasn't our lone FA acquisition or changing quarterbacks. The difference was young players like Kris Dielman, Nick Hardwick, Vincent Jackson, Shawne Merriman, Shaun Phillips, etc, etc, etc developing into better players.


Before you open this discussion you ought to think about winning something. Since your last Superbowl in '94 you're 87-103 and 0-3 in the playoffs, and you have a coach who has proven absolutely NOTHING. BTW...the Chargers were 9-7 in 2005...just like we were last year...and then went 14-2 when they switched to Rivers.

But I guess you can't see the parallels can you?

The playoff rib always hurts, but the Chargers are moving in the right direction. Playoff success is just a matter of time.

And like I said, the catalyst for improvement last year wasn't Rivers, it was the squad as a whole. Rivers will continue to improve just like Cutler will.

Inkana7
06-09-2007, 11:38 AM
The playoff rib always hurts, but the Chargers are moving in the right direction. Playoff success is just a matter of time.

And like I said, the catalyst for improvement last year wasn't Rivers, it was the squad as a whole. Rivers will continue to improve just like Cutler will.

A matter of time? You went 14-2 last year, averaged 31 points a game and had possibly the best pass rush in the NFL. If there was any better chance for a superbowl, it was blown last year.

400HZ
06-09-2007, 11:52 AM
A matter of time? You went 14-2 last year, averaged 31 points a game and had possibly the best pass rush in the NFL. If there was any better chance for a superbowl, it was blown last year.

Every single impact player is back for 07. AJ Smith brought in another draft class. Every single impact player will be back for 08 too. As San Diego laughably gets critisized for not bringing in any free agents, they are locking down young core players. They may have blown a great chance last year, but they are going to be a better team (which is scary) in 07. The window isn't 1 or 2 years.

Cito Pelon
06-09-2007, 11:58 AM
Dude for the last time, we had a lot of key defensive injuries during that time period. Saying that we avoided the injury bug is not true. We lost our best DE during for several weeks in Castillo, and our other DE Igor was still recovering from an earlier ankle problem. Shaun Phillips was also fighting a high ankle injury and McCree was also fighting his own injuries.
Also, the only major games where we were down by double digits was the Bengal and first Bronco's game.

And you make it sound like it's a bad thing that we didn't sign someone else from another team. We did have FA signings, only with our guys, who are still young and will improve this upcoming season. Everything else was essentially addressed in the draft, which I don't understand why people are so down on. It addressed our needs.
We lost the Pat's game because of two main reasons: 1) stupid mistakes like a fumbled punt, a stupid headbutt, and an interception turned fumble by McCree; 2) Cam Cameron running LT only 9 times in the second half. 9 freaking times! Even after he completely decimated the Patriot's defensein the first half, Cam decides to completely ignore him in the second half.
Essentially, the playoff loss really didn't have anything to do with talent. It was all mental. Guys that were usually clutch, like Eric Parker, just had a mental lapse. The same could be said for Cameron and his stupid gameplan.

Ever seen that movie "Copland"? DeNiro tells Stallone, "You had a chance to be a real cop, AND YOU BLEW IT!"

SD had a chance to be a real NFL team, AND THEY BLEW IT! Best of luck to you, SD is my second favorite team. You're gonna have a tough row to hoe this year to repeat as AFC West Champs.

I'd say right now it will be interesting to see how much intestinal fortitude the SD players have in defending their AFC West Title. Shanahan is after that Title, and he's a determined dude.

Cito Pelon
06-09-2007, 12:15 PM
Every single impact player is back for 07. AJ Smith brought in another draft class. Every single impact player will be back for 08 too. As San Diego laughably gets critisized for not bringing in any free agents, they are locking down young core players. They may have blown a great chance last year, but they are going to be a better team (which is scary) in 07. The window isn't 1 or 2 years.

Gonna be an interesting battle for the AFC West Title. I'm happy to see SD do well. You win some, you lose some. The competition is what it's all about.

Inkana7
06-09-2007, 12:31 PM
Every single impact player is back for 07. AJ Smith brought in another draft class. Every single impact player will be back for 08 too. As San Diego laughably gets critisized for not bringing in any free agents, they are locking down young core players. They may have blown a great chance last year, but they are going to be a better team (which is scary) in 07. The window isn't 1 or 2 years.

That's the thing, in today's NFL, the window IS 1 or 2 years. Denver returned all of their impact players from 05 last year too, besides maybe Mike Anderson. How'd that turn out? The stars have to align for a team. San Diego's best chance was last year.

azbroncfan
06-09-2007, 12:32 PM
A matter of time? You went 14-2 last year, averaged 31 points a game and had possibly the best pass rush in the NFL. If there was any better chance for a superbowl, it was blown last year.


Your a homer and just don't want to admit it if you don't think SD has a good chance this year. Same team with more experience, will have roid boy for the whole season. Their only weakness I see are the WR's and they aren't that bad. I think Denver needs to go 12-4 to have a chance at the AFC. As far as the first place schedule argument it is dumb because they play the same schedule except for 2 teams.

BroncoBuff
06-09-2007, 12:48 PM
The writing's on the wall for Demetrin Veal. I've been pulling for him since he beat out Dorsett Davis, but at 288 - he's a goner. He might even be better off finding a new team before camps start.

theAPAOps5
06-09-2007, 12:56 PM
I admitted that it hasn't been a problem in the past, but I also can't remember Denver doing anything as dramatic as this year. Their draft was full of players with potential character concerns, Travis Henry has tested positive twice, Dre Bly threw his young quarterback under the bus in Detroit..I'm probably forgetting a few too. Now just to reiterate I wouldn't bet on chemistry issues hurting Denver this year, just that I'd be concerned if I was a donkey fan.


A charger fan calling out character issues when they have a cheat at LB, another Defensman who leads a cop on a high speed chase and gets shot, granted the cops reaction was totally uncalled for, and a RB who threw one of the biggest hissy fits because another team made fun of his cheaters gay dance.

This day and age character issues run abound on all teams. And everyone, including Cheaterman, deserves a second chance. That includes our draft class. I am leery, especially of Thomas, but he deserves his shot to turn his life around. As for Henry, yeah he screwed up but Tennessee gave him a chance and it is paying off for him with Denver. He will emerge from the Substance Abuse program in a month or so.

As for the talent, yeah you guys are loaded. Rivers may be greater than Cutler right now but I see that changing. I think they both will be great and that is a wash. LT is the best player in the NFL but Henry will run wild in Denver's system.

The AFC West is the Chargers' to lose. If they play their football they will win the West. If Denver plays its ball then they will make a strong push and be ready for SD if they stumble.

ColoradoBuff
06-09-2007, 12:57 PM
Let's not get carried away here.

Your team is going down like the Titanic doughboy.....not even your fatass could plug their holes in their defense and offense!Hilarious!

theAPAOps5
06-09-2007, 01:02 PM
Please don't quote tubby.

DeuceOfClub
06-09-2007, 01:32 PM
Sooner than later Rivers will have to go under surgery to remove the broomstick out oh his a$$.

400HZ
06-09-2007, 01:36 PM
A charger fan calling out character issues when they have a cheat at LB, another Defensman who leads a cop on a high speed chase and gets shot, granted the cops reaction was totally uncalled for, and a RB who threw one of the biggest hissy fits because another team made fun of his cheaters gay dance.

This day and age character issues run abound on all teams. And everyone, including Cheaterman, deserves a second chance. That includes our draft class. I am leery, especially of Thomas, but he deserves his shot to turn his life around. As for Henry, yeah he screwed up but Tennessee gave him a chance and it is paying off for him with Denver. He will emerge from the Substance Abuse program in a month or so.

As for the talent, yeah you guys are loaded. Rivers may be greater than Cutler right now but I see that changing. I think they both will be great and that is a wash. LT is the best player in the NFL but Henry will run wild in Denver's system.

The AFC West is the Chargers' to lose. If they play their football they will win the West. If Denver plays its ball then they will make a strong push and be ready for SD if they stumble.

Last year there was a retarded amout of off the field trouble in San Diego, but the organisation did everything it reasonably could to clean things up. Steve Foley, Terrence Kiel, and Ryan Krause all got cut.

theAPAOps5
06-09-2007, 01:48 PM
Last year there was a retarded amout of off the field trouble in San Diego, but the organisation did everything it reasonably could to clean things up. Steve Foley, Terrence Kiel, and Ryan Krause all got cut.

As will these guys in Denver if they go astray. Shanny likes taking guys and giving them second chances, because there is always that chance they might turn out great. Look at Rod Smith, he hit his wife, but has been a model citizen since. Look at Maurice Clarette, he got his chance and decided he needed to get his drink on in practice and didn't even make it through training camp.

Its not like Denver is the Bengals where they have 8 guys playing with ankle bracelets right now. Denver severs ties with players who blow their chance.

skpac1001
06-09-2007, 02:17 PM
Rivers > Cutler
LT and Turner both > Henry
Gates and Manu > Scheffler and Graham
SD O line >>>>> Denver O line

SD D line >>>>> Denver D line
SD Linebackers > Denver linebackers
SD Special Teams > Denver Special teams

The only talent advantage Denver has is at WR and in the secondary. Which players that were brought in are gonna prevent the somewhat traditional Denver 2nd half defensive collapse this year?

Sorry but that just looks very lopsided to me.



Hmm. If you flip flop qb and wr, and then replace Denver with N.E., it proves that you had a very lopsided talent advantage during your playoff game. Maybe coaching counts for something. Why dont you line up the Head coach, defensive coaching staff, offensive coaching staff, special teams coaching staff for broncos and chargers comparision and see if that closes the gap?

Requiem
06-09-2007, 02:22 PM
Just some posts of mine from Broncomania regarding the line situation now. . . for anyone who cares. . .

I wouldn't be surprised for the Broncos to keep five defensive tackles around this year. Adams and Kennedy, as of now - are one year players for the Broncos - with no current extensions beyond this season. Looking at Bates' past defenses in the past at least five defensive tackles have rotated in and played part of the season, if not most in his past stints in Miami and Green Bay.

I'm guessing that Veal right now is the odd man out.

I don't think Denver will trade for Kennedy, give up the sixth and get rid of him. He'll stay on the roster - if not, that was a waste. The Broncos are going to get rid of McKinley, who signed a four-year, 8 million dollar contract. Perhaps McKinley can be a hybrid and move between DE/DT. I'm assuming Adams will make the team, just because of the size and experience he brings. Marcus Thomas cannot be a PS guy, but I don't think he'll be a phantom IR guy, he'll make the team. Then it comes down to Warren, who I've been stating for a while would be cut after this year.

I see Ekuban, Lang, Crowder, Moss and Dumervil being the five defensive ends on this team. Keeping McKinley gives us the versatility of another DE/DT. That's ten defensive lineman. That's my guess for now.

__________________________________________________ _____________

I brought this up in the draft thread, sort of. I think it'd be stupid for the Broncos to spend a sixth-rounder on a guy and not have him make the team.

My guess is that Warren, Adams, McKinley, Thomas and Kennedy will be the defensive tackles. Bates has had at least five defensive tackles play games for the past defenses in Miami and Green Bay, so I expect that trend to continue. Keeping Ekuban, Lang, Crowder, Moss and Dumervil at defensive end. McKinley offers versatility as a defensive end as well.

Veal looks to be the odd man out, but I figure Denver will have to keep guys on the line who are more than one-year rentals. Essentially, that's what Kennedy and Adams are for now.

McKinley signed a 4 year, 8 million dollar contract - he has to stay. Thomas would get picked up if he was PS'd and I don't see a phantom IR thing happening. If the Broncos brought in Adams, I'd expect him to fill some sort of role. It sounds like they feel he can already be a half a game guy on defense.

You and I have had a feeling for a while that Warren might be the big question mark here. I think he'll stay this year, but beyond this season, I think he'll have a new home. It'll be really surprising though, to see how this pans out.

Even though Veal didn't get a big extension, he was extended. So if they get rid of him, obviously extending him was a "magoo" move. If the Broncos get rid of Warren, obviously the fat contract as a bad choice. If the Broncos get rid of McKinley, obviously that was a dumb signing. If the Broncos get rid of Kennedy, they wasted a sixth-rounder.

So who knows, there's a lot of doubt here. We've had over 25 lineman be overturned here in Denver the past few seasons and that's pathetic. Where I'm not thrilled about Kennedy, I'm glad to see Denver taking a pro-active approach to getting things done.

Warren, Adams, Thomas, McKinley, Kennedy at defensive tackle.

Lang, Ekuban, Dumervil, Moss and Crowder at defensive end.

Maybe we'll keep eleven lineman, say Veal at DT if McKinley switches to end; which I doubt.

Jens1893
06-09-2007, 02:24 PM
Charger fans and Paris Hilton are both attention whores.

NW Bolt Fan
06-09-2007, 02:43 PM
Hmm. If you flip flop qb and wr, and then replace Denver with N.E., it proves that you had a very lopsided talent advantage during your playoff game. Maybe coaching counts for something. Why dont you line up the Head coach, defensive coaching staff, offensive coaching staff, special teams coaching staff for broncos and chargers comparision and see if that closes the gap?
TRUTH. Marty was a good cheerleader. Norv should prove more adept at playcalling over Cameron. It remains to be seen if Cottrel will = Wade. One thing is certain, it's been awhile since either of them had the type of talent they'll coach this season. They've both had highly successful moments in coaching; does it seem like it'd be tougher to coach a talented team, or a lesser one?

Shannarat is one of the best offensive minds in the game. I loved his gambling mentality (though I do think it's gone a bit overboard this offseason). Your special teams are no better than the Bolts. ST coaches are generally like QBs- too much credit, too much blame. If the Donks D is improved this year (particularly on the line) then you'll be tough. It's not gonna be a surprise when the Den. offense is good.

footstepsfrom#27
06-09-2007, 03:08 PM
I admitted that it hasn't been a problem in the past, but I also can't remember Denver doing anything as dramatic as this year. Their draft was full of players with potential character concerns, Travis Henry has tested positive twice, Dre Bly threw his young quarterback under the bus in Detroit..I'm probably forgetting a few too. Now just to reiterate I wouldn't bet on chemistry issues hurting Denver this year, just that I'd be concerned if I was a donkey fan.
See, this is the difference between being a fan of a perrenial contender vs. a team that catches lightning in a bottle once every 15 years or so with a surprise draft, a player like LT who comes along, etc...you don't understand what continuity is from a winners perspective, which means you really don't understand how a cosistent winner functions. You think we should be concerned about these issues hurting our team chemistry because YOU would be concerned, since that's how the CHARGERS would be effected, which you think of as normative for any other team.

It doesn't work the same way in Denver as it does in SD. On your team there's a power struggle between your coach and GM and the owner's loyalty is divided until he finally sacks the coach. Here there is no such division. Shanny is the unquestioned supreme leader of this team PERIOD. He has total control over who makes this roster and who doesn't. We have a coach for life...you have one till he crosses your GM. That's why we can get a Dale Carter, an IHOP, an Eddie Kennison, a Maurice Clarett...yes, even something as frightning as Dre Bly or Travis Henry...and they either fit in here or they're gone. We b**** and moan (some of us) about character issues here because we want to root for guys we like...but at the end of the day every Bronco fan knows Shanahan is not going to allow any player to be a distraction on this team. And incidently...you might want to worry about Merriman testing positive again as well. Roid boy is surely on Goodells short list of people to keep an eye on.
Rivers > Cutler
LT and Turner both > Henry
Gates and Manu > Scheffler and Graham
SD O line >>>>> Denver O line

SD D line >>>>> Denver D line
SD Linebackers > Denver linebackers
SD Special Teams > Denver Special teams
1) Rivers is not > than Cutler. Rivers had to sit on the bench for 2 years before he was ready. Obviously it's unfair to judge how good Cutler is going to be at this point since he didn't have the luxury of watching for two full years like Rivers did because he was good enough to play as a rookie and Rivers wasn't. Rivers also didn't have to play on a team like Vanderbilt in college. In terms of athletic ability and arm strength, Cutler is superior. In terms of development...obviously Rivers is ahead FOR NOW. Don't assume that will continue. Rivers had his success last year with a team that has LT and Gates on it. Cutler had his with far fewer weapons than he has now...so there's a considerable difference in what Jay is working with now. Mix in the fact that he has Shanahan coaching him...I'll put my money on Jay.

2) obviously LT is the best...making that assumption about your back up runner and saying he's better than Henry, who has been a consistent runner in this league on bad teams and is now coming to a system that fits him perfectly is just idiotic. Henry will likely be a 1500 yard producer for us. Nobody knows what Turner is as a starter. Tatum Bell looked good backing up Anderson as well.

3) Gates is the best...no argument. But the edge has been considerably narrowed, perhaps eliminated entirely with Graham here now. Brandon Manumaleuna? Gimme a freakin' break. That's a homer's take if I've ever heard one. You actually think he's anything more than a blocker? He's your version of House...a big dude who can block and now and then catch a pass. Scheffler has infinitely superior TE skills and is a true downfield threat. Nobody knows for sure yet what he is...he reminds me of Gonzo...but to say that Manu is better than him is flat stupid. It's entirely possible that our combination of Graham and Scheffler will produce a better result than Gates and that guard that backs him up.

4) O-line...McNeil and Goff are big talents in your line...though if I were you I would be concerned about the potential for McNeil's back to cause him problems...the other three are overachievers. I'll give you an edge here based ONLY on Nalen and Lepsis being older and Matt's questionable health, but you're forgetting that it's our SYSTEM and how our line works together, not individual talent...that determines our success, hence merely making one to one comparisons is not a good idea. On balance, assuming Lepsis returns to his former self, it's a push here. Your line looks better than it is becuase they're blocking for LT. Ours benefits from the system. But while you have an individual player who makes everyone around him look great...we have a long established history of turning out dominant running games based on a system that never changes. We've successfully mined talent from the back of the draft and even outside the draft for over a decade with this system...can you say the same? You can't. Our main question mark is at RT now...and if Pears has improved this time around, the O-lines are probably roughly equal...you're is slightly more talented and has LT making them look better...ours has a superior system. Either way...I don't see a clear edge here for SD...especially if anything happens to LT. Don't think you have a line so dominant that any back can come in and churn out big time production...that would make you us...and you're not us...you're the team that sucked bad enough to be in position to draft Tomlinson. In 3 years when he hits the wall...what then?

5) The D-line is obviously our problem...that was last year. How do you know what it will be now? Perhaps I need to remind you that a mere two years ago we were in the AFC title game and finished 2nd against the run in the NFL...less than 1 ypg behind the Chargers in spite of your so called overwhelming talent. That was accomplished with castoffs from the Browns. It might be best to look at whether or not there's a history here with Bates being successful, not what we had last year. We faltered last year...can you assume the guys we've brought in now will fare worse than the 2005 group? No. Do you have an edge? Maybe...individual talent wise...but that fails to consider Shanny has always counted on a rotation in the D-line more than anything else, and we won two Superbowls with that philosophy...you have how many?

Your success last year came with an entirely different coaching staff. Would you assume that will continue with an entirely new system, while also assuming that on Denver's side, new players and high draft picks invested won't return Shanny's D to success as it had in 2005? That's a dangerous assumption. The NFL rarely stays the same year to year. Maybe this year you're still better...how about a year from now? Now we're tallking question marks. Given the presense of Bates and his former track record, new players, young talent...Shanahan's history with a rotational system...we have every reason to believe we have improved considerably on the D-line.

6) Linebackers...first of all, Merriman and Phillips are really DE's not LB's so comparing them here does't really work since they have different roles. It would be easier to compare Sean Phillips with Elvis Dumervil than DJ Williams. I'll give you Merriman as the best at what he does, but let's not pretend that your two inside guys, Stephen Cooper and Matt Whilhelm are anything more than crap because they suck. Cooper is to small for an ILB...and to get 53 tackles from the ILB position...the same number as Jimmy Kennedy BTW...that's just pathetic...especially with that big road grader lining up right in front of him to keep the other team's OL guys off him...and Whilhelm is worse...27 tackles in 16 games? Are you kidding me? Why is this guy a starter? Denver with Wilson had a better LB crew last year, without question. It remains to be seen how DJ does in the middle but you have a gaping hole at both ILB spots.
The only talent advantage Denver has is at WR and in the secondary. Which players that were brought in are gonna prevent the somewhat traditional Denver 2nd half defensive collapse this year?
The only clear advantage you have is at RB and DL...and both those spots have been considerably upgraded this year for Denver. Rivers has questions about his performance in the 4th quarter, and nobody knows whether your defense will perform like it did under Phillips or not. We have clear advantages in the secondary and even at ILB, where I'll take DJ even though he's never played there based on his talent alone over the two nobodies you line up inside. Graham/Scheffler will probably wind up with equal or better production than Gates and that guard you have backing him up. If our O-line gells with the two kids on the right side and Lepsis is OK, I look for our offense to be just as good as SD's this year. LT is the only major advantage, and since we've led the NFL in rushing for the entire Shanahan era, I'm not that worried that we'll be able to run the ball now that we have a legitimate back.

Most of all...the biggest advantage that we have is Shanahan vs. Turner...that's just a joke right there. If you think that having your GM known by your players as the guy with the real power on that team won't hurt, I invite you to look at Dallas the last 12 years for exhibit A on how that works...it doesn't. You face a far more serious problem...a systemic one in the front office...than you know. Turner sucks as a HC but he's not your real problem now that the rest of the NFL knows your coach is a puppet. Wait till the players start realizing they can do what they want to and don't have to worry about the coach being the guy who controls their destiny.
The difference is that after SD had let up in the 3rd they stopped screwing around and shut Denver out in the 4th. In the first game SD just scored touchdowns on all 4 of their last possessions and the Broncos D could do nothing. If they were worn down last year, what's preventing the same thing from happening this year?
And your D gave up a bunch of points to the Jake led offense that couldn't seem to score on anybody...see how this game is played? Obviously our front four is MUCH bigger and deeper this time around. That was the reason the D fell apart last year...so your prediction of another collapse is based on last year's talent base...not a good idea. You can talk about Denver collapsing in the second half of a season...because you're team has sucked for so long that their collapse generally started from game one. You have 2 good seasons out of the last 13 years...and you're talking to us? Right...that's like me telling Donald Trump how to handle his money.
When I said SD needs to take care of their own business, that's what I'm talking about. The new coaches need to concentrate on bringing out the talent in their players. If they can do that then it won't matter what Shanahan does.
You're pretty arrogant for a fan who has followed one of the NFL's worst franchises. You've never won jack and you're telling us there's nothing Shanahan can do against the mighty Norv Turner led Chargers? Where was this talent in 2005? You had a great QB running the show and the same talent and you finsihed where?...right...9-7 like we did last year. Like I said, when you follow a flash in the pan team like the Chargers, you tend to think that once you have success you'll be there indefinitely...think again. Shanny owns Norv Turner and your assumption that "if they do that it won't matter"...ignores the obvious fact that Turner has NOT shown he can do that. So basically, your owner screwed your team when he dumped Marty for Turner just to appease Smith's ego.
There are two opposite philosophies on the Broncos compared to the Chargers. Denver seeks out veterans who they hope can provide an upgrade, and San Diego focuses on drafting well and then letting young talent develop. The difference between going 9-7 in 05 and 14-2 in 06 wasn't our lone FA acquisition or changing quarterbacks. The difference was young players like Kris Dielman, Nick Hardwick, Vincent Jackson, Shawne Merriman, Shaun Phillips, etc, etc, etc developing into better players.
Dude...get over yourself. You have Merriman, Phillips and LT why? Oh right...because YOU SUCKED FOR YEARS AND GOT TO PICK AT THE TOP OF THE DRAFT! Maybe if we flush our team down the crapper for the next 10 years we can find ourselves an LT also. You're also hardly the only team that can pull talent from the back of the draft or find UFA's who can play. Kris Kuper was a 5th rounder...starting this year...Marshall a 4th...starting this year...Lepsis/UFA, Pears/UFA, Dumervil was a 4th...etc...and I guess you've forgotten how many unsung runners we turned into feature backs...TD ring a bell? Rod Smith and Tom Nalen are both HOF caliber players who developed under Shanny...you're point is ridiculous.
And like I said, the catalyst for improvement last year wasn't Rivers, it was the squad as a whole. Rivers will continue to improve just like Cutler will.
Wrong...your team was basically the same in 2005 as it is now except for Rivers...and the biggest change is that your coaching change represents a major step down.

The biggest difference between our team and yours? A bad year in Denver usually equals a season in San Diego for you clowns to think you're on your way to winning it all. Like I said...WIN SOMETHING.

We got better...you've gotten worse. You just don't know it yet.

NW Bolt Fan
06-09-2007, 03:50 PM
See, this is the difference between being a fan of a perrenial contender vs. a team that catches lightning in a bottle once every 15 years or so with a surprise draft, a player like LT who comes along, etc...you don't understand what continuity is from a winners perspective, which means you really don't understand how a cosistent winner functions. You think we should be concerned about these issues hurting our team chemistry because YOU would be concerned, since that's how the CHARGERS would be effected, which you think of as normative for any other team.

It doesn't work the same way in Denver as it does in SD. On your team there's a power struggle between your coach and GM and the owner's loyalty is divided until he finally sacks the coach. Here there is no such division. Shanny is the unquestioned supreme leader of this team PERIOD. He has total control over who makes this roster and who doesn't. We have a coach for life...you have one till he crosses your GM. That's why we can get a Dale Carter, an IHOP, an Eddie Kennison, a Maurice Clarett...yes, even something as frightning as Dre Bly or Travis Henry...and they either fit in here or they're gone. We b**** and moan (some of us) about character issues here because we want to root for guys we like...but at the end of the day every Bronco fan knows Shanahan is not going to allow any player to be a distraction on this team. And incidently...you might want to worry about Merriman testing positive again as well. Roid boy is surely on Goodells short list of people to keep an eye on.

1) Rivers is not > than Cutler. Rivers had to sit on the bench for 2 years before he was ready. Obviously it's unfair to judge how good Cutler is going to be at this point since he didn't have the luxury of watching for two full years like Rivers did because he was good enough to play as a rookie and Rivers wasn't. Rivers also didn't have to play on a team like Vanderbilt in college. In terms of athletic ability and arm strength, Cutler is superior. In terms of development...obviously Rivers is ahead FOR NOW. Don't assume that will continue. Rivers had his success last year with a team that has LT and Gates on it. Cutler had his with far fewer weapons than he has now...so there's a considerable difference in what Jay is working with now. Mix in the fact that he has Shanahan coaching him...I'll put my money on Jay.

2) obviously LT is the best...making that assumption about your back up runner and saying he's better than Henry, who has been a consistent runner in this league on bad teams and is now coming to a system that fits him perfectly is just idiotic. Henry will likely be a 1500 yard producer for us. Nobody knows what Turner is as a starter. Tatum Bell looked good backing up Anderson as well.

3) Gates is the best...no argument. But the edge has been considerably narrowed, perhaps eliminated entirely with Graham here now. Brandon Manumaleuna? Gimme a freakin' break. That's a homer's take if I've ever heard one. You actually think he's anything more than a blocker? He's your version of House...a big dude who can block and now and then catch a pass. Scheffler has infinitely superior TE skills and is a true downfield threat. Nobody knows for sure yet what he is...he reminds me of Gonzo...but to say that Manu is better than him is flat stupid. It's entirely possible that our combination of Graham and Scheffler will produce a better result than Gates and that guard that backs him up.

4) O-line...McNeil and Goff are big talents in your line...though if I were you I would be concerned about the potential for McNeil's back to cause him problems...the other three are overachievers. I'll give you an edge here based ONLY on Nalen and Lepsis being older and Matt's questionable health, but you're forgetting that it's our SYSTEM and how our line works together, not individual talent...that determines our success, hence merely making one to one comparisons is not a good idea. On balance, assuming Lepsis returns to his former self, it's a push here. Your line looks better than it is becuase they're blocking for LT. Ours benefits from the system. But while you have an individual player who makes everyone around him look great...we have a long established history of turning out dominant running games based on a system that never changes. We've successfully mined talent from the back of the draft and even outside the draft for over a decade with this system...can you say the same? You can't. Our main question mark is at RT now...and if Pears has improved this time around, the O-lines are probably roughly equal...you're is slightly more talented and has LT making them look better...ours has a superior system. Either way...I don't see a clear edge here for SD...especially if anything happens to LT. Don't think you have a line so dominant that any back can come in and churn out big time production...that would make you us...and you're not us...you're the team that sucked bad enough to be in position to draft Tomlinson. In 3 years when he hits the wall...what then?

5) The D-line is obviously our problem...that was last year. How do you know what it will be now? Perhaps I need to remind you that a mere two years ago we were in the AFC title game and finished 2nd against the run in the NFL...less than 1 ypg behind the Chargers in spite of your so called overwhelming talent. That was accomplished with castoffs from the Browns. It might be best to look at whether or not there's a history here with Bates being successful, not what we had last year. We faltered last year...can you assume the guys we've brought in now will fare worse than the 2005 group? No. Do you have an edge? Maybe...individual talent wise...but that fails to consider Shanny has always counted on a rotation in the D-line more than anything else, and we won two Superbowls with that philosophy...you have how many?

Your success last year came with an entirely different coaching staff. Would you assume that will continue with an entirely new system, while also assuming that on Denver's side, new players and high draft picks invested won't return Shanny's D to success as it had in 2005? That's a dangerous assumption. The NFL rarely stays the same year to year. Maybe this year you're still better...how about a year from now? Now we're tallking question marks. Given the presense of Bates and his former track record, new players, young talent...Shanahan's history with a rotational system...we have every reason to believe we have improved considerably on the D-line.

6) Linebackers...first of all, Merriman and Phillips are really DE's not LB's so comparing them here does't really work since they have different roles. It would be easier to compare Sean Phillips with Elvis Dumervil than DJ Williams. I'll give you Merriman as the best at what he does, but let's not pretend that your two inside guys, Stephen Cooper and Matt Whilhelm are anything more than crap because they suck. Cooper is to small for an ILB...and to get 53 tackles from the ILB position...the same number as Jimmy Kennedy BTW...that's just pathetic...especially with that big road grader lining up right in front of him to keep the other team's OL guys off him...and Whilhelm is worse...27 tackles in 16 games? Are you kidding me? Why is this guy a starter? Denver with Wilson had a better LB crew last year, without question. It remains to be seen how DJ does in the middle but you have a gaping hole at both ILB spots.

The only clear advantage you have is at RB and DL...and both those spots have been considerably upgraded this year for Denver. Rivers has questions about his performance in the 4th quarter, and nobody knows whether your defense will perform like it did under Phillips or not. We have clear advantages in the secondary and even at ILB, where I'll take DJ even though he's never played there based on his talent alone over the two nobodies you line up inside. Graham/Scheffler will probably wind up with equal or better production than Gates and that guard you have backing him up. If our O-line gells with the two kids on the right side and Lepsis is OK, I look for our offense to be just as good as SD's this year. LT is the only major advantage, and since we've led the NFL in rushing for the entire Shanahan era, I'm not that worried that we'll be able to run the ball now that we have a legitimate back.

Most of all...the biggest advantage that we have is Shanahan vs. Turner...that's just a joke right there. If you think that having your GM known by your players as the guy with the real power on that team won't hurt, I invite you to look at Dallas the last 12 years for exhibit A on how that works...it doesn't. You face a far more serious problem...a systemic one in the front office...than you know. Turner sucks as a HC but he's not your real problem now that the rest of the NFL knows your coach is a puppet. Wait till the players start realizing they can do what they want to and don't have to worry about the coach being the guy who controls their destiny.

And your D gave up a bunch of points to the Jake led offense that couldn't seem to score on anybody...see how this game is played? Obviously our front four is MUCH bigger and deeper this time around. That was the reason the D fell apart last year...so your prediction of another collapse is based on last year's talent base...not a good idea. You can talk about Denver collapsing in the second half of a season...because you're team has sucked for so long that their collapse generally started from game one. You have 2 good seasons out of the last 13 years...and you're talking to us? Right...that's like me telling Donald Trump how to handle his money.

You're pretty arrogant for a fan who has followed one of the NFL's worst franchises. You've never won jack and you're telling us there's nothing Shanahan can do against the mighty Norv Turner led Chargers? Where was this talent in 2005? You had a great QB running the show and the same talent and you finsihed where?...right...9-7 like we did last year. Like I said, when you follow a flash in the pan team like the Chargers, you tend to think that once you have success you'll be there indefinitely...think again. Shanny owns Norv Turner and your assumption that "if they do that it won't matter"...ignores the obvious fact that Turner has NOT shown he can do that. So basically, your owner screwed your team when he dumped Marty for Turner just to appease Smith's ego.

Dude...get over yourself. You have Merriman, Phillips and LT why? Oh right...because YOU SUCKED FOR YEARS AND GOT TO PICK AT THE TOP OF THE DRAFT! Maybe if we flush our team down the crapper for the next 10 years we can find ourselves an LT also. You're also hardly the only team that can pull talent from the back of the draft or find UFA's who can play. Kris Kuper was a 5th rounder...starting this year...Marshall a 4th...starting this year...Lepsis/UFA, Pears/UFA, Dumervil was a 4th...etc...and I guess you've forgotten how many unsung runners we turned into feature backs...TD ring a bell? Rod Smith and Tom Nalen are both HOF caliber players who developed under Shanny...you're point is ridiculous.

Wrong...your team was basically the same in 2005 as it is now except for Rivers...and the biggest change is that your coaching change represents a major step down.

The biggest difference between our team and yours? A bad year in Denver usually equals a season in San Diego for you clowns to think you're on your way to winning it all. Like I said...WIN SOMETHING.

We got better...you've gotten worse. You just don't know it yet.

WOW. Any time on your hands :Homer: At worst, we split with you.

Bob's your Information Minister
06-09-2007, 03:51 PM
Charger fans are so cute. Win a division title and they get all superior.

boltaneer
06-09-2007, 03:56 PM
A matter of time? You went 14-2 last year, averaged 31 points a game and had possibly the best pass rush in the NFL. If there was any better chance for a superbowl, it was blown last year.

And everyone said the same thing about the Colts in 2005. Yet they proved everyone wrong last year.

It's all up to Norv now. He hasn't had great success as a head coach in the past but he has had success as a coordinator with the great talent he had in Dallas. The talent is there in San Diego. Can he repeat his success from Dallas or will he repeat his failures from Washington? (And yes, he gets a pass in my book concerning the hell hole that is Oakland).

footstepsfrom#27
06-09-2007, 04:03 PM
And everyone said the same thing about the Colts in 2005. Yet they proved everyone wrong last year.

It's all up to Norv now. He hasn't had great success as a head coach in the past but he has had success as a coordinator with the great talent he had in Dallas. The talent is there in San Diego. Can he repeat his success from Dallas or will he repeat his failures from Washington? (And yes, he gets a pass in my book concerning the hell hole that is Oakland).
I think you said it best when you said, "It's ALL up to Norv now."

This aint Dallas.
He aint Jimmy Johnson.

cutthemdown
06-09-2007, 04:08 PM
And everyone said the same thing about the Colts in 2005. Yet they proved everyone wrong last year.

It's all up to Norv now. He hasn't had great success as a head coach in the past but he has had success as a coordinator with the great talent he had in Dallas. The talent is there in San Diego. Can he repeat his success from Dallas or will he repeat his failures from Washington? (And yes, he gets a pass in my book concerning the hell hole that is Oakland).

It's all up to Norv huh? When did Norv Turner become one of the good coaches in the NFL? By the way Turner was never the Head Coach in Dallas. Chargers blew up the coaching staff and when year starts they will pay a heavy price for that.

R8R H8R
06-09-2007, 04:10 PM
Wrong...your team was basically the same in 2005 as it is now except for Rivers...and the biggest change is that your coaching change represents a major step down.

The biggest difference between our team and yours? A bad year in Denver usually equals a season in San Diego for you clowns to think you're on your way to winning it all. Like I said...WIN SOMETHING.

We got better...you've gotten worse. You just don't know it yet.

WOW, what a post.I had to snip most of it because of length, but well said, I can't argue with a thing. :notworthy

Although I want to add something that I think is noteworthy. When the Shotty/GM thing blew up this year, it reminds me a lot of something that happened back in the 90's.

Sometime after their only SB apperance, Bobby Betherd(GM) and Bobby Ross had a big blow out on which way the team should go. Spanos took the GM's side and Ross was let go. You could say at that time that SD had more individual talent than did the Broncos, but what team has had more success since that time? The dolts were never the same, they soon became the laughing stock of the league as the team got older and talent left in FA. Betherd arrogantly thought he could get by with sub-servent coaches such as Mike Riley, Dan Henning, etc.

Does all this sound familiar? History may be repeating itself. The owner took sides with the GM ,and a sub-servant coach like Turner gets a lot of talent to work with. He may win a few games early on, but if dolt fans think he is the answer to a SB, well as the saying goes...I got some swamp land to sell you.

Broncoman13
06-09-2007, 04:13 PM
WOW. Any time on your hands :Homer: At worst, we split with you.

I think a split is likely as well, though if one team is going to win both of them it's the Broncos. Look at the Broncos track record in SD. I can still remember when TD referred to SD has his "other home field". I'd be pretty concerned about Merriman. That guy thinks he's bigger than the team and is consumed with promoting himself and his lights out theme. The best thing that could happen for the Chargers is for Merriman to grow up about 5 years in the next 2-3 months. When he's 29 or 30 years old and realizes that he's getting closer to the end of his career and doesn't have a ring... he'll become a better teammate and make the team better.

skpac1001
06-09-2007, 04:16 PM
TRUTH. Marty was a good cheerleader. Norv should prove more adept at playcalling over Cameron. It remains to be seen if Cottrel will = Wade. One thing is certain, it's been awhile since either of them had the type of talent they'll coach this season. They've both had highly successful moments in coaching; does it seem like it'd be tougher to coach a talented team, or a lesser one?

Shannarat is one of the best offensive minds in the game. I loved his gambling mentality (though I do think it's gone a bit overboard this offseason). Your special teams are no better than the Bolts. ST coaches are generally like QBs- too much credit, too much blame. If the Donks D is improved this year (particularly on the line) then you'll be tough. It's not gonna be a surprise when the Den. offense is good.

I don't doubt the Chargers would do fine with about anyone as coach right now. My point was more towards messing with 400's talent addition equaling dominance. That kind of stuff always falls apart once the season starts. I fully expect the Chargers to be an AFC force, however unlike 400 I think the Broncos will be competitive with them. As far as team chemistry questions, I think a total coaching turnover causes as much team chemistry questions as def. cord + middle linebacker, d line, te, and hb changes.

NFLBRONCO
06-09-2007, 04:30 PM
I think DT position will definately carry 5. Most talk about who we keep and who we don't I could see Warren as a surprise cut. His toe problem could be a problem who's to say if he ever shake this injury.

CoMoChief
06-09-2007, 04:39 PM
This signing is funny. You wasted a pick (even if it is only a 6th rd pick) on the worst defensive player on the team that had the worst front 4 Dline in football. I thought DEN wanted to get better at the position. You say it creates competition but what good is all of this competition if the people you bring in are bums like Adams and Kennedy?

Killericon
06-09-2007, 04:41 PM
McKinley signed a 4 year, 8 million dollar contract

Everytime I read or think about that, I get pissed off.

Man, am I glad the Raiders aren't competitive. Otherwise, we'd have 4 fan bases claiming superiority in June.

bpc
06-09-2007, 04:54 PM
I actually don't think so. Phillips had some great schemes, but it also suffered from the Larry Coyer syndrome ie. the need to play prevent at the worst possible time, most evident in the Patriots game. The Ravens game was another example. If Cottrell would actually stop doing that then he'll be better than Wade.

I don't agree with this statement at all. The 3-4 for the Chargers was about as productive as it could be under Philips. The only thing that Turner and Cottrell are going to do is mismanage personnel what we've seen happen many times in Norv's tenures.

Bottom line is Norv doesn't know how to manage a locker room.

boltaneer
06-09-2007, 05:01 PM
It's all up to Norv huh? When did Norv Turner become one of the good coaches in the NFL? By the way Turner was never the Head Coach in Dallas. Chargers blew up the coaching staff and when year starts they will pay a heavy price for that.

I said it's all up to Norv, meaning it's virtually the same team, just a different coach. I don't know how this is implying that he's a good head coach.

I specifically noted that Norv was a coordinator in Dallas, not a head coach. We all know this.

You can argue this many ways. What did Jimmy Johnson ever do outside of those two great years in Dallas?

I'm not thrilled about Norv Turner being the head coach but IMO he's been in two bad situations before as head coach. I'm gonna give him a fair chance to see what he can do in a much better situation here in San Diego.

Atlas
06-09-2007, 05:11 PM
And everyone said the same thing about the Colts in 2005. Yet they proved everyone wrong last year.

It's all up to Norv now. He hasn't had great success as a head coach in the past but he has had success as a coordinator with the great talent he had in Dallas. The talent is there in San Diego. Can he repeat his success from Dallas or will he repeat his failures from Washington? (And yes, he gets a pass in my book concerning the hell hole that is Oakland).

It's going to be funny to see the Chargers finish 10-6 get the wild card; 1st round elimination, and watch you guys in complete meltdown. I wonder if Spanos is going to fire Turner after one year??

Odysseus
06-09-2007, 05:11 PM
If I was a Charger fan I'd be concerned. Denver has made the most improvement in the division, and have fortified weaknesses on the D-line SD was able to exploit last year. Cutler has replaced Plummer and added a year under his belt, he has more weapons, and SD is in the midst of a radical change in coaching...plus they play the 1st place schedule this year. And do we need to talk about who has the coaching edge?

I think not...should be a dogfight this year.

If I was a Charger fan I would still be laughing at the way LT owned our defense. That guy scored on the Broncos at will and if THIS defense is planning on doing anything they better let that burn into their memory.

Killericon
06-09-2007, 05:11 PM
I said it's all up to Norv, meaning it's virtually the same team, just a different coach. I don't know how this is implying that he's a good head coach.

I specifically noted that Norv was a coordinator in Dallas, not a head coach. We all know this.

You can argue this many ways. What did Jimmy Johnson ever do outside of those two great years in Dallas?

I'm not thrilled about Norv Turner being the head coach but IMO he's been in two bad situations before as head coach. I'm gonna give him a fair chance to see what he can do in a much better situation here in San Diego.

I will say this. Norv has no excuse not to succeed. If he doesn't, he's done. So's A.J.

WoodMan
06-09-2007, 05:33 PM
I find it rather funny that Sandy Eggo fans think that since they have replaced Shotty they are bound for the promised land. He was the scapegoat for the playoff loss to the Pats last year and should bear some of the blame, but the same BRAINIACS are playing for the Chokers that made stupid mistake after stupid mistake and cost them the game. An old addage, "You can't fix stoopid."
Even LT lost it at the end. He should have not been pissed at the celebrants. Rather at the mental gymnastic of his brilliant team mates.