Shoud Libby get a pardon ?

[Spider]

Granted Clinton did Pardon Mark Rich , and Mark Rich is a scumbag , but he is no traitor like Libby ........

[Crushaholic]

He was convicted in a court of law...so, no...

[Smiling Assassin27]

Raise the bar a little higher than slick willie and let Libby do the time.

WILL he get a pardon? You'd better believe he will.

[Spider]

He was convicted in a court of law...so, no...

fair enough , I guess the practice of pardoning has to stop , I wish Clinton never Pardon Mark Rich either

[Spider]

Raise the bar a little higher than slick willie and let Libby do the time.

WILL he get a pardon? You'd better believe he will.

I.....I.have to agree ;D

[TailgateNut]

If Libby hangs Cheney and/or Rove out to dry, go ahead and pardon him and buy him a nice Steak Dinner with all the trimmings!:~ohyah!:

[TheDave]

Does he deserve one...yes

Will he get one...yes

[Hotrod]

I.....I.have to agree ;D

I know your pain as I must also agree with nut case on this one Ha!

[Spider]

I know your pain as I must also agree with nut case on this one Ha!

LOL

[yavoon]

best option is obviously wags option.

[Stormontheplains]

anyone named scooter should be saved from going to jail, they should put him in a dress and make him clean plaims house for 3 years. "I said use pledge b1tch"

[Cool Breeze]

I think he should hold out for the cash settlement option

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Granted Clinton did Pardon Mark Rich , and Mark Rich is a scumbag , but he is no traitor like Libby ........

How ironic is it that Rich was one of Scooter's clients?

http://www.bartcop.com/dictator-slash-bush.jpg

[RkyMtnThunder]

Would you, me or anyone else get a pardon if we committed similar acts?



So why should Libby?

30 days in a resort-prison and $250k fine = slap on the wrist for a man with resources such as himself

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Taking care of their own

Sen. Sam Brownback of Kansas and Hunter both said they would pardon Vice President Dick Cheney's former aide Lewis I. "Scooter" Libby, sentenced to 30 months in prison earlier in the day for lying and obstructing a CIA leak investigation.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070606/ap_on_el_pr/republicans_debate

[Traveler]

Does he deserve one...yes

Will he get one...yes

Why?

[Blueflame]

The only way Libby can continue to obstruct the special prosecutor (Fitzgerald) from obtaining information about Cheney's involvement in the revelation of the name of a covert CIA agent is for him to face the full penalty for that obstruction. If he is pardoned, then he can be forced to tell what he knows (no more 5th Amendment guarantee re: self-incrimination if he's already immune via pardon). I don't believe Bush will pardon him.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

The only way Libby can continue to obstruct the special prosecutor (Fitzgerald) from obtaining information about Cheney's involvement in the revelation of the name of a covert CIA agent is for him to face the full penalty for that obstruction. If he is pardoned, then he can be forced to tell what he knows (no more 5th Amendment guarantee re: self-incrimination if he's already immune via pardon). I don't believe Bush will pardon him.

If he's pardoned, then doesn't that translate to total immunity from prosecution, i.e., that the case against him is "dismissed with prejudice," if you will?

[TheDave]

Why?

Simply because the dult was covering for Bush, Rove, and Chenny... The guy who can do the pardoning should pardon him.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see the whole group in jail... but since that isn't going to happen no sence in Libby serving time for the real criminals

[Blueflame]

If he's pardoned, then doesn't that translate to total immunity from prosecution, i.e., that the case against him is "dismissed with prejudice," if you will?

Wouldn't a pardon only apply to the charges he was convicted of (perjury and obstruction of justice)? But Fitzgerald could still continue to investigate Cheney's involvement and Libby most likely still has information regarding that. I think he could still be compelled to testify as a witness against Cheney....

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Wouldn't a pardon only apply to the charges he was convicted of (perjury and obstruction of justice)? But Fitzgerald could still continue to investigate Cheney's involvement and Libby most likely still has information regarding that. I think he could still be compelled to testify as a witness against Cheney....

I'm guessing he could be compelled to testify either way.

[Blueflame]

The bottom line is this... someone still committed a crime in "leaking" the name of a covert CIA agent. That guilty party (to date) is getting away with the crime because of Libby's stonewalling. Therefore, I have no sympathy whatsoever for a man who is willing to go to jail to protect a criminal.

[gunns]

Tell him he'll be pardoned if he gives up the real criminals. Then if he does, tell him "we lied". He should be used to that.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

The bottom line is this... someone still committed a crime in "leaking" the name of a covert CIA agent. That guilty party (to date) is getting away with the crime because of Libby's stonewalling. Therefore, I have no sympathy whatsoever for a man who is willing to go to jail to protect a criminal.

Yep.

I guess it remains to be seen whether Junior will, in the eleventh hour, just like his daddy, pardon the whole conga line of crooks whose testimony could land him in the clink.

[SoCalBronco]

Tell him he'll be pardoned if he gives up the real criminals. Then if he does, tell him "we lied". He should be used to that.

Actually, the prosecutors can get him to give up information about others (subject to the rules of evidence ofcourse, that is the big game, this stuff just gets him in the witness chair) and still go after him later, even after prosecutors give him immunity. The immunity that the government provides is not real immunity, its not airtight, it is only use-derivative use immunity, which means that the witnesses's testimony and evidence located by means of that testimony wont be used against him in the future. Ofcourse, if the government, through wholly independent means, finds other evidence, that can be used....and its black letter law that providing just use-derivative use immunity is sufficient such that he cannot claim his fifth amendment privilege against self incrimination...which is why, to my knowledge, the government has never granted anyone more than use-derivative use immunity.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Actually, the prosecutors can get him to give up information about others (subject to the rules of evidence ofcourse, that is the big game, this stuff just gets him in the witness chair) and still go after him later, even after prosecutors give him immunity. The immunity that the government provides is not real immunity, its not airtight, it is only use-derivative use immunity, which means that the witnesses's testimony and evidence located by means of that testimony wont be used against him in the future. Ofcourse, if the government, through wholly independent means, finds other evidence, that can be used....and its black letter law that providing just use-derivative use immunity is sufficient such that he cannot claim his fifth amendment privilege against self incrimination...which is why, to my knowledge, the government has never granted anyone more than use-derivative use immunity.

But do the same rules that apply to use-derivative immunity apply to presidential pardons?

In other words, how does use-derivative immunity differ from the immunity conferred by a pardon?

[broncocalijohn]

He should sit until the border patrols are pardoned. Libby got a major sentence in months. Bush says it takes time to pardon someone so by the time he gets around to it, the time will fit the crime. Let us see if Bush sticks to his word on "the timetable" of pardons.

[SoCalBronco]

But do the same rules that apply to use-derivative immunity apply to presidential pardons?

Well, pardons and grants of prosecutorial immunity are sort of in different planes. The whole pardon thing is a matter of scope. If the WH were to phrase the pardon narrowly (i.e. for perjury), then there is this whole other area where he is vulnerable and then that is where the government comes in with use-derivative use immunity to force him to testify. If the pardon is broad such as "for all crimes he may have committed", then the entire issue of granting prosecutorial use-derivative use immunity becomes moot. If the pardon covers everything, he couldnt claim his fifth amendment right to begin with because there is no risk as to self-incrimination.

Again though, this is just the first step, you can get him on the stand, but is what he has to say admissable? That's a whole other issue.

[Traveler]

My question is why are so many folks willing to fall on the sword for the big 3?

[alkemical]

Everyone has a price

[Play2win]

My question is why are so many folks willing to fall on the sword for the big 3?

Have you ever read the book or watched the movie, "The Firm"...

Once you're in it, you're in it...

[alkemical]

Have you ever read the book or watched the movie, "The Firm"...

Once you're in it, you're in it...


That's why i think Mr. Abramoff got off so easy.

Say he got some proof "so&so" was doing something "they shouldn't"......

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Last Plamegate Worry for Bush-Cheney

The question of whether Libby will start serving his 20-month sentence before his appeals are exhausted is so consequential. While many Libby supporters are confident that President Bush will pardon Libby before leaving office, it is less clear that Bush will act before Election 2008.

That means if the judge orders Libby to start his jail term in July while his appeals proceed – as it now appears he will – Bush will be faced with the prospect of Libby serving more than half his sentence before November 2008 and a risk that Libby finally might cooperate with special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald.

If Libby were to start talking, he could explain the full role of Bush and Cheney in orchestrating the smear campaign against Iraq War critic Joseph Wilson, which set the stage for Libby and other administration officials to leak the identity of Wilson’s wife, covert CIA officer Valerie Plame, in summer 2003.

http://www.consortiumnews.com/2007/060607.html

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

http://www.bartcop.com/libby-obstruction.jpg

[BroncoBuff]

I might be a perennial cockeyed optimist, but I don't think Bush will pardon him until 1/19/09. I think Bushie is thinking about his legacy more and more, and he's starting to realize that the fat bald guy down the hall has screwed him over as VP. Keeping Libby in until he leaves would be a sign he respects the courts - something he could use a boost of for posterity.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I might be a perennial cockeyed optimist, but I don't think Bush will pardon him until 1/19/09. I think Bushie is thinking about his legacy more and more, and he's starting to realize that the fat bald guy down the hall has screwed him over as VP. Keeping Libby in until he leaves would be a sign he respects the courts - something he could use a boost of for posterity.

Yep. The Busheviks, like most elites, are always worried about that legacy thing.

Impression management.

Poppy Bush's attempt to leave a good impression was that ill-fated humanitarian aid mission to Somalia (initiated just in time to distract our collective attention from the pardons he just issued to Weinberger and those other Iran-Contra crooks.)

What will Junior do for his last act?

Nuke Iran?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

http://www.bartcop.com/wolf-2-faced-GOP.jpg

[Denver Crush]

I think he should have to go to Iraq and fight with the enlisted men. They need soldiers over there. Now that I think about it though he'd probably get a lot of people killed.

On a side note, Could it be possible that bush wants his amnesty bill passed to sign these people up for some extended duty in Iraq? Just a question to ponder. Who knows at this point?