Bush Takes On Opponents of Immigration Deal

[spdirty]

son of a bitch is actively trying to destroy this country.

Bush Takes On Opponents of Immigration Deal
By JIM RUTENBERG
GLYNCO, Ga., May 29 — President Bush today accused opponents of his proposed immigration measure of fear-mongering to defeat it in Congress, and took on his own conservative political base as he did so.

“If you want to scare the American people, what you say is the bill’s an amnesty bill,” Mr. Bush said this afternoon at a training center for border enforcement agents located in this town in Georgia’s southeastern corner. “That’s empty political rhetoric, trying to frighten our citizens.”

The president used some of his toughest language yet as he began an effort to build support for the bill in the Senate. The measure hews closely to his long-sought goal of a new immigration system with three components: tighter seals on the nation’s borders, a guest-worker system for noncitizens who want to work here, and a path to citizenship for some 12 million illegal immigrants already in the country.

The bill, the product of a compromise struck by Republican and Democratic leaders two weeks ago, has encountered stiff resistance from the left and right. Liberal opposition taking aim at the proposal for shifting the system for awarding permanent residence status to give more weight to education and skills and less to family reunification, while conservatives have derided the plan for allowing illegal aliens to legalize their status.

It was the conservative opponents whom Mr. Bush seemed to address most forcefully in his remarks here today — a rare example of the president crossing swords with key members of the political coalition that helped him attain the Oval Office and then keep it four years later: The same conservative radio hosts, writers, bloggers, and legislators who killed an attempt at compromise immigration legislation last year.

Mr. Bush’s address came just as lawmakers have returned to their districts for a 10-day break from Washington to hear directly from constituents. It was during the late-spring recess last year that opponents of a similar bill barraged their Congressional representatives with complaints, especially about provisions they said amounted to amnesty for illegal aliens.

Then, with Congressional elections looming in the fall and his own party at risk of losing its majority, the president retreated.

But this year is an off year, electorally, and Mr. Bush appears determined to head off a similar outcome this time. In his remarks at the training facility here, he said that the bill includes strong measures to improve border security, and that it was now time to alleviate the pressure on the border by creating what he calls a new “rationalized” system.

“People in Congress need the courage to go back to their districts and explain exactly what this bill is all about,” Mr. Bush said. “The fundamental question is, will elected officials have the courage necessary to put a comprehensive immigration plan in place that makes it more likely we can enforce our border and, at the same time, uphold the great traditions of —— immigrant traditions of the United States of America.”

Mr. Bush’s address, given under a blazing Georgia sun before several hundred border enforcement agents and trainees, was the latest and most visible in a series of administration efforts to beat back critics, who administration officials say are misrepresenting the bill to the public.

In recent weeks, officials have given dozens of interviews on the subject to radio programs, editorial boards and newspaper reporters around the country.

But Mr. Bush and his allies on Capitol Hill are at a significant rhetorical disadvantage: conservative opponents can capture their objection to the bill in a single word — amnesty — while supporters are forced into the complex weeds of policy and the nuances of legislative language.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/29/us/29cnd-immig.html?ei=5065&en=14d081ab7d03c8a7&ex=1181102400&partner=MYWAY&pagewanted=print

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

son of a b**** is actively trying to destroy this country.


Well, you're a little slow on the uptake, but I'm still glad you finally realized this.

;) ^5

[Bob]

If I really, really tried I would not be able to piss off everyone in the United States, but I think he might just pull it off. He could not be more wrong on this issue, and is a sell-out. This is about the only issue that Americans are united on, and he is against the American people on this one as well. Great for big corporations that pack strawberrys, great for an a vote for the Dems, crappy for all who believe in the rule of law.

[Rohirrim]

69% of Americans want the border secured and the illegals out. 69%!!! So where's the representative democracy?

[Bob]

69% of Americans want the border secured and the illegals out. 69%!!! So where's the representative democracy?

Yeah, but what were hear from those sensitive souls in the media, is that if your against illegal imigration you are somehow racist...

Its like you cant even speak out. The paint everyone with the same racist brush to shut folks up, so they can pocket bigger profits and screw over the working class. I cant think of anything that makes my blood boil hotter.

Bob is not affliated with the Tencrado campain or its affliates.

[Spider]

Just like with Iraq , the NSA wiretaps , FEMA , Bush jr will do what he wants when he wants , all of us be damned , and the republicans in congress were rubber stamping him , Democrats caved in until sept anyway ........so sit back and enjoy your vote .........

[ant1999e]

Bienvenida a la melea de naranja gringos!!!!!:wiggle:

[cutthemdown]

I hate this immigration bill. I hope somehow it gets defeated. But Bush seems to win these battles in the long run. I hope on this one he loses. These illegals are bad for the country. They don't have patriotism or loyalty to the USA. They take jobs that used to be good money for Americans not just the low paying ones. Soon they will have kids that go to college and then take more jobs from us because they will work cheaper in those sectors as well to undercut real Americans. GET THEM OUT, CLOSE THE BORDER, and ALSO CUT THE AMOUNT OF LEGAL IMMIGRATION AS WELL. We should also change the policy that makes babies born in America to be citizens. If you're not American, then your kids are not American either.

[cutthemdown]

Just like with Iraq , the NSA wiretaps , FEMA , Bush jr will do what he wants when he wants , all of us be damned , and the republicans in congress were rubber stamping him , Democrats caved in until sept anyway ........so sit back and enjoy your vote .........

The democrats that made it into congress on the anti war message really let down all of you people that voted for them. Like I said the Democrats never have the resolve to really fight it out with Bush. I really hope the somehow Congress doesn't pass this measure.

[ant1999e]

I hate this immigration bill. I hope somehow it gets defeated. But Bush seems to win these battles in the long run. I hope on this one he loses. These illegals are bad for the country. They don't have patriotism or loyalty to the USA. They take jobs that used to be good money for Americans not just the low paying ones. Soon they will have kids that go to college and then take more jobs from us because they will work cheaper in those sectors as well to undercut real Americans. GET THEM OUT, CLOSE THE BORDER, and ALSO CUT THE AMOUNT OF LEGAL IMMIGRATION AS WELL. We should also change the policy that makes babies born in America to be citizens. If you're not American, then your kids are not American either.

If it ain't white, it ain't right. That's the american way?:USA:

[Spider]

The democrats that made it into congress on the anti war message really let down all of you people that voted for them. Like I said the Democrats never have the resolve to really fight it out with Bush. I really hope the somehow Congress doesn't pass this measure.

so full of shít , Dems caved but Bush did veto and they didnt have the votes , cut you should know by now not to bullshít me .the Dems caved but it wasnt lack of fight , it was lack of votes .........

[cutthemdown]

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1102AP_Miss_USA_Booed.html


MEXICO CITY -- Many here south of the border reveled in her disastrous evening: First Miss USA Rachel Smith slipped and fell on her bottom during the Miss Universe evening gown competition. Then she was booed by hundreds in the Mexican audience.

The treatment of the Tennessee beauty queen was nothing personal. It had more to do with Mexico's sometimes tense relationship with its powerful northern neighbor.

U.S. athletes have sparked a similar response. In 2005, when the U.S. played Mexico during a World Cup soccer qualifier, the crowd booed the U.S. national anthem and a smattering of fans chanted "Osama! Osama!" during the game.

Smith was booed repeatedly during her stay in Mexico, including last week, when she carried a guitar and wore an Elvis-style suit during a parade of national costumes held in downtown Mexico City.

She kept her poise during an interview Monday night with pageant judges, despite the boos and chants of "Mexico! Mexico!" that drowned out her answer.

"I am very passionate about education and being in South Africa sparked my interest in that," said Smith, a journalism graduate who volunteered for a month at talk show host Oprah Winfrey's Leadership Academy for Girls in South Africa.

Then she paused, smiled and spoke in Spanish. "Buenas noches Mexico. Muchas gracias!" which earned her some applause and some chuckles.

Miss Japan Riyo Mori, who went on to win the crown, opened her interview with "Hola Mexico!" to cheers and claps. Her personal trainer, Ines Ligron, said she had warned Mori about the importance of speaking in Spanish to win over the crowd.

Even an opening "hola" might not have helped Smith, who faced long odds for simply being a gringa.

U.S.-Mexico relations worsened in the past year after the U.S. National Guard was sent to the U.S.-Mexico border to assist the U.S. Border Patrol and help build hundreds of miles of wall to keep out illegal migrants.

Mexicans are also upset over a U.S. Senate proposal for a sweeping immigration reform bill that would limit the consideration of family ties, capping visas for foreign parents of U.S. citizens at 40,000 a year. The plan would change a system that favored family ties for four decades.

Many Mexicans also feel that the United States exerts its influence to tip the balance in its favor, whether in global politics or sports events.

On Tuesday, Mexican media lamented the fact that their contestant, Rosa Maria Ojeda, did not make it to the top five in the pageant while Smith did, despite falling down on the runway. Smith's fifth place finish only added to the theory that the United States always is favored.

The Mexican newspaper El Universal said Ojeda's fans were not as upset about her top-10 finish as they were that "the judges did not penalize that fact that Miss USA totally fell on her seat after she stepped on her dress."

The newspaper said that when the show went to a commercial break, an NBC representative warned the audience of 9,000 to behave because "this gives the world a bad image of Mexico."

Donald Trump, who co-owns the pageant, brushed off the ruckus as Mexicans' frustration with Washington politics.

Smith did not comment publicly after the contest. On Tuesday, she flew back to the United States.


How does that make you all feel? I could care less who wins a pageant or a soccer game but I don't like this at all. Without USA Mexico would be even worst off then they are. These people don't come here to be American, they come here to steal jobs and services, commit crimes, then send the money back to Mexico. It's obvious the Mexican people don't respect our culture or values it's time for them to go make it on their own back in their own country. If they don't go willingly then round them up and put them across border and start shooting anyone who tries to come across in the desert. Start fining any company that hires one tons of cash.

[Bob]

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1102AP_Miss_USA_Booed.html


MEXICO CITY -- Many here south of the border reveled in her disastrous evening: First Miss USA Rachel Smith slipped and fell on her bottom during the Miss Universe evening gown competition. Then she was booed by hundreds in the Mexican audience.

The treatment of the Tennessee beauty queen was nothing personal. It had more to do with Mexico's sometimes tense relationship with its powerful northern neighbor.

U.S. athletes have sparked a similar response. In 2005, when the U.S. played Mexico during a World Cup soccer qualifier, the crowd booed the U.S. national anthem and a smattering of fans chanted "Osama! Osama!" during the game.

Smith was booed repeatedly during her stay in Mexico, including last week, when she carried a guitar and wore an Elvis-style suit during a parade of national costumes held in downtown Mexico City.

She kept her poise during an interview Monday night with pageant judges, despite the boos and chants of "Mexico! Mexico!" that drowned out her answer.

"I am very passionate about education and being in South Africa sparked my interest in that," said Smith, a journalism graduate who volunteered for a month at talk show host Oprah Winfrey's Leadership Academy for Girls in South Africa.

Then she paused, smiled and spoke in Spanish. "Buenas noches Mexico. Muchas gracias!" which earned her some applause and some chuckles.

Miss Japan Riyo Mori, who went on to win the crown, opened her interview with "Hola Mexico!" to cheers and claps. Her personal trainer, Ines Ligron, said she had warned Mori about the importance of speaking in Spanish to win over the crowd.

Even an opening "hola" might not have helped Smith, who faced long odds for simply being a gringa.

U.S.-Mexico relations worsened in the past year after the U.S. National Guard was sent to the U.S.-Mexico border to assist the U.S. Border Patrol and help build hundreds of miles of wall to keep out illegal migrants.

Mexicans are also upset over a U.S. Senate proposal for a sweeping immigration reform bill that would limit the consideration of family ties, capping visas for foreign parents of U.S. citizens at 40,000 a year. The plan would change a system that favored family ties for four decades.

Many Mexicans also feel that the United States exerts its influence to tip the balance in its favor, whether in global politics or sports events.

On Tuesday, Mexican media lamented the fact that their contestant, Rosa Maria Ojeda, did not make it to the top five in the pageant while Smith did, despite falling down on the runway. Smith's fifth place finish only added to the theory that the United States always is favored.

The Mexican newspaper El Universal said Ojeda's fans were not as upset about her top-10 finish as they were that "the judges did not penalize that fact that Miss USA totally fell on her seat after she stepped on her dress."

The newspaper said that when the show went to a commercial break, an NBC representative warned the audience of 9,000 to behave because "this gives the world a bad image of Mexico."

Donald Trump, who co-owns the pageant, brushed off the ruckus as Mexicans' frustration with Washington politics.

Smith did not comment publicly after the contest. On Tuesday, she flew back to the United States.


How does that make you all feel? I could care less who wins a pageant or a soccer game but I don't like this at all. Without USA Mexico would be even worst off then they are. These people don't come here to be American, they come here to steal jobs and services, commit crimes, then send the money back to Mexico. It's obvious the Mexican people don't respect our culture or values it's time for them to go make it on their own back in their own country. If they don't go willingly then round them up and put them across border and start shooting anyone who tries to come across in the desert. Start fining any company that hires one tons of cash.

But all they want to do is work here, and become true-blue Americans through and through. You all must all be racists to say these things, cant you see that Bush is just trying to educate us ingorant folks, and provide cheaper tomatoes? :thanku:

[ant1999e]

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1102AP_Miss_USA_Booed.html


MEXICO CITY -- Many here south of the border reveled in her disastrous evening: First Miss USA Rachel Smith slipped and fell on her bottom during the Miss Universe evening gown competition. Then she was booed by hundreds in the Mexican audience.

The treatment of the Tennessee beauty queen was nothing personal. It had more to do with Mexico's sometimes tense relationship with its powerful northern neighbor.

U.S. athletes have sparked a similar response. In 2005, when the U.S. played Mexico during a World Cup soccer qualifier, the crowd booed the U.S. national anthem and a smattering of fans chanted "Osama! Osama!" during the game.

Smith was booed repeatedly during her stay in Mexico, including last week, when she carried a guitar and wore an Elvis-style suit during a parade of national costumes held in downtown Mexico City.

She kept her poise during an interview Monday night with pageant judges, despite the boos and chants of "Mexico! Mexico!" that drowned out her answer.

"I am very passionate about education and being in South Africa sparked my interest in that," said Smith, a journalism graduate who volunteered for a month at talk show host Oprah Winfrey's Leadership Academy for Girls in South Africa.

Then she paused, smiled and spoke in Spanish. "Buenas noches Mexico. Muchas gracias!" which earned her some applause and some chuckles.

Miss Japan Riyo Mori, who went on to win the crown, opened her interview with "Hola Mexico!" to cheers and claps. Her personal trainer, Ines Ligron, said she had warned Mori about the importance of speaking in Spanish to win over the crowd.

Even an opening "hola" might not have helped Smith, who faced long odds for simply being a gringa.

U.S.-Mexico relations worsened in the past year after the U.S. National Guard was sent to the U.S.-Mexico border to assist the U.S. Border Patrol and help build hundreds of miles of wall to keep out illegal migrants.

Mexicans are also upset over a U.S. Senate proposal for a sweeping immigration reform bill that would limit the consideration of family ties, capping visas for foreign parents of U.S. citizens at 40,000 a year. The plan would change a system that favored family ties for four decades.

Many Mexicans also feel that the United States exerts its influence to tip the balance in its favor, whether in global politics or sports events.

On Tuesday, Mexican media lamented the fact that their contestant, Rosa Maria Ojeda, did not make it to the top five in the pageant while Smith did, despite falling down on the runway. Smith's fifth place finish only added to the theory that the United States always is favored.

The Mexican newspaper El Universal said Ojeda's fans were not as upset about her top-10 finish as they were that "the judges did not penalize that fact that Miss USA totally fell on her seat after she stepped on her dress."

The newspaper said that when the show went to a commercial break, an NBC representative warned the audience of 9,000 to behave because "this gives the world a bad image of Mexico."

Donald Trump, who co-owns the pageant, brushed off the ruckus as Mexicans' frustration with Washington politics.

Smith did not comment publicly after the contest. On Tuesday, she flew back to the United States.

These people are idiot.

[Spider]

well I am still on the fence here on this issue , middle of the road guy , no worries though I am big enough nothing is going to run me over , so I will hang in the middle for awhile longer ......... Unless of course someone post something so incredibly stupid , but that goes without saying .........

[atomicbloke]

In all this furore, what is lost is the issue about legal immigration. I mean legal immigration of high skilled foreigners who have advanced educational degrees from top American universities.

This new bill penalizes someone who has a PhD from MIT, has started a company and created 1,000 new jobs, but rewards someone who illegaly jumped the border and has lived here for 3 years.

Several contributions from foreign born scientists have made America the superpower that it is. Think Einstein, Fermi, Oppeinheimer and many more. Just look up any encyclopaedia. Also more recent foreign born engineers have made several contributions in areas of microporcessors, medical technology, etc.

This new bill will put an end to it. Hence, all these highly skilled people will use their skills and expertise to benefit [i]another[/] country with more sensible immigration laws and make that country more advanced. Think Canada, England, France, etc.

In effect, this bill will penalize high skilled foreigners who have been here for years, paying taxes higher than citizens, were not allowed to avail social security and medicare (even though they paid for it) and benefitting American economy. And in turn will reward illegal immigrants who jumped a border, worked here illegaly, didn't pay taxes and drew welfare.

[ant1999e]

In all this furore, what is lost is the issue about legal immigration. I mean legal immigration of high skilled foreigners who have advanced educational degrees from top American universities.

This new bill penalizes someone who has a PhD from MIT, has started a company and created 1,000 new jobs, but rewards someone who illegaly jumped the border and has lived here for 3 years.

Several contributions from foreign born scientists have made America the superpower that it is. Think Einstein, Fermi, Oppeinheimer and many more. Just look up any encyclopaedia. Also more recent foreign born engineers have made several contributions in areas of microporcessors, medical technology, etc.

This new bill will put an end to it. Hence, all these highly skilled people will use their skills and expertise to benefit [i]another[/] country with more sensible immigration laws and make that country more advanced. Think Canada, England, France, etc.

In effect, this bill will penalize high skilled foreigners who have been here for years, paying taxes higher than citizens, were not allowed to avail social security and medicare (even though they paid for it) and benefitting American economy. And in turn will reward illegal immigrants who jumped a border, worked here illegaly, didn't pay taxes and drew welfare.

But now we want to let less mexicans into the country cause their kids will eventually go to college and steal our good jobs.

[spdirty]

Most of the GOP will not rubber stamp this for him, they didnt last september when they had the majority (the congress anyway).

This time though, I dont know. I just don't trust the democrats to vote no on this. Hope like hell Im wrong.

But God I hate 80% of the ****ing senate though. Arrogant pompous assholes.

[cutthemdown]

well I am still on the fence here on this issue , middle of the road guy , no worries though I am big enough nothing is going to run me over , so I will hang in the middle for awhile longer ......... Unless of course someone post something so incredibly stupid , but that goes without saying .........

I don't care what fence your on, as long its a border fence that stretches all the way across the border. It may take time and money to finish but it will be well worth it. A fence would cut down probably about half the problem. The other half we will have to hunt down as the try to get by the fence. I still say you shoot you 10 people one night coming across the border and it would stop pretty quick.

[Spider]

Most of the GOP will not rubber stamp this for him, they didnt last september when they had the majority (the congress anyway).

This time though, I dont know. I just don't trust the democrats to vote no on this. Hope like hell Im wrong.

But God I hate 80% of the ****ing senate though. Arrogant pompous a-holes.

I guess I will go with the masses on this one ........ if it passes ok , if not ok .......

[ant1999e]

I don't care what fence your on, as long its a border fence that stretches all the way across the border. It may take time and money to finish but it will be well worth it. A fence would cut down probably about half the problem. The other half we will have to hunt down as the try to get by the fence. I still say you shoot you 10 people one night coming across the border and it would stop pretty quick.

Lets just get a rope and lynch them. That would be more traditional.:mullet2:
Your ignorant.
Is this more hitlerish speech spider?

[Spider]

I don't care what fence your on, as long its a border fence that stretches all the way across the border. It may take time and money to finish but it will be well worth it. A fence would cut down probably about half the problem. The other half we will have to hunt down as the try to get by the fence. I still say you shoot you 10 people one night coming across the border and it would stop pretty quick.

shooting ? shooting people for wanting a better life ? sound judgment for a physco , let me ask you cut , have you ever really hurt another human being ?
it takes a cold streak that few have ..... much less shoot someone ...... if you want illegal immigration to stop , stop the goofy talk and go after companies that hire them , if there is no work here , they dont come .........

[Spider]

Lets just get a rope and lynch them. That would be more traditional.:mullet2:
Your ignorant.
Is this more hitlerish speech spider?
LOL you brought up Hitler .... Chavez = Hitler

[atomicbloke]

But now we want to let less mexicans into the country cause their kids will eventually go to college and steal our good jobs.

I am not just referring to Mexicans.

There are highly skilled professionals from every other country out here in scientific, medical, engineering, business and legal professions.

They are going to be sacrificed in favor of illegal mexican immigrants.

Well, the high skilled folks are simply going to move to another country and benefit that country's economy.

The reason no one knows about this is because the problem of illegal immigration is more sexier with the masses than legal immigration. Most folks here know nothing about legal immigration. Talking about mexican farm workers is more sexier than talking about a German professor of mathematics.

[ant1999e]

LOL you brought up Hitler .... Chavez = Hitler

Wasn't being a smart ass. Talk of shooting people because they want a better life or they are guilty of commiting a misdermeanor crime is ridiculous.

[Spider]

Wasn't being a smart ass. Talk of shooting people because they want a better life or they are guilty of commiting a misdermeanor crime is ridiculous.

LOL my bad ... but yeah ......... I just cant come down hard on a man for wanting to improve his life for his family .........I wish we could fix mexico ....... my suggestion i sent ot Rep Thomas of Wyoming went unanswered , but I suggested building a port under American control , with American wages in mexico ..........

[spdirty]

I don't care what fence your on, as long its a border fence that stretches all the way across the border. It may take time and money to finish but it will be well worth it. A fence would cut down probably about half the problem. The other half we will have to hunt down as the try to get by the fence. I still say you shoot you 10 people one night coming across the border and it would stop pretty quick.

We just need to inact Mexico's immigration laws. Ever read up on how they treat their illegal immigrants?

[spdirty]

I am not just referring to Mexicans.

There are highly skilled professionals from every other country out here in scientific, medical, engineering, business and legal professions.

They are going to be sacrificed in favor of illegal mexican immigrants.

Well, the high skilled folks are simply going to move to another country and benefit that country's economy.

The reason no one knows about this is because the problem of illegal immigration is more sexier with the masses than legal immigration. Most folks here know nothing about legal immigration. Talking about mexican farm workers is more sexier than talking about a German professor of mathematics.


Legal immigrants are the ones who are more pissed than anyone. My wife and one of my boys are legal immigrants...ask her how she feels about this mess.

[Spider]

We just need to inact Mexico's immigration laws. Ever read up on how they treat their illegal immigrants?

That isnt the answer , look you are talking about denying the american dream , the same dream our forefathers came here for , you want to stop it , then cut off the gravey train , but dont harm these people , their only crime is wanting better for their family ...... you as a parent should respect this desire as much as I do ...........if I was in Yuma and I saw someone wanting to hurt one of these illegals , i am stepping in to protect the Mexican .........I will throw down with a fellow country man over this .......

[spdirty]

That isnt the answer , look you are talking about denying the american dream , the same dream our forefathers came here for , you want to stop it , then cut off the gravey train , but dont harm these people , their only crime is wanting better for their family ...... you as a parent should respect this desire as much as I do ...........if I was in Yuma and I saw someone wanting to hurt one of these illegals , i am stepping in to protect the Mexican .........I will throw down with a fellow country man over this .......

And MS-13? Yeah, its all about the American dream for them too right?

And the 29% of our federal prisoners who just so happen to be illegal immigrants? Yep.

Oh, and we're also forgetting that those who come here illegally arent screened for disease, like they were back in the day. Yeah, total common sense there. Let some illegal carrying a strain of TB come here illegally and cause an outbreak, but hey, just so long as they can live out the American dream for their families right?

Oh yeah, we are also forgetting about the non-mexicans who are coming here illegally. Wonder how much effort it would take for one of them to sneak a suitcase nuke across the border, if it hasnt already been done.

But, so long as we can show we are compassionate by giving amnesty to foreigners who break our law its worth it right?

Anyway, I am not opposed to anyone who wants to come here and make a better life for their families...hell, I would go so far as to say we should lax some of our immigration laws. But damnit, come here legally. Show you don't have a criminal record! Show us you don't have any diseases!

Assimilate into our culture like every other immigrant has done since the birth of this country!

[atomicbloke]

Anyway, I am not opposed to anyone who wants to come here and make a better life for their families...hell, I would go so far as to say we should lax some of our immigration laws. But damnit, come here legally. Show you don't have a criminal record! Show us you don't have any diseases!

Assimilate into our culture like every other immigrant has done since the birth of this country!

But America punishes those who come here legally. Legal immigrants tend to be highly educated, most often holding advanced degrees from top American universities. But they have to remain in limbo for 15 years until they can become citizens.

For those 15 years, they pay more taxes than citizens, pay for medicare and social security (but can't avail of them), can change employers, can't have their families visit them and can't vote.

Taxation without representation. Sounds familiar?

And the new law will make it even worse for them.

[Spider]

And MS-13? Yeah, its all about the American dream for them too right?

And the 29% of our federal prisoners who just so happen to be illegal immigrants? Yep.

Oh, and we're also forgetting that those who come here illegally arent screened for disease, like they were back in the day. Yeah, total common sense there. Let some illegal carrying a strain of TB come here illegally and cause an outbreak, but hey, just so long as they can live out the American dream for their families right?

Oh yeah, we are also forgetting about the non-mexicans who are coming here illegally. Wonder how much effort it would take for one of them to sneak a suitcase nuke across the border, if it hasnt already been done.

But, so long as we can show we are compassionate by giving amnesty to foreigners who break our law its worth it right?

Anyway, I am not opposed to anyone who wants to come here and make a better life for their families...hell, I would go so far as to say we should lax some of our immigration laws. But damnit, come here legally. Show you don't have a criminal record! Show us you don't have any diseases!

Assimilate into our culture like every other immigrant has done since the birth of this country!

Long winded Bullshít , I never said anything about the condition or where these people come from , just that they are trying ot get a piece of the American dream , Probably why you wet your pants here ,and your talk of hurting these people , total bullshít ............ dont hire em , dont give em welfare , they dont come ..... it isnt rocket science , we dont have to become wanna be rambos .............

[spdirty]

Long winded Bullshít , I never said anything about the condition or where these people come from , just that they are trying ot get a piece of the American dream , Probably why you wet your pants here ,and your talk of hurting these people , total bullshít ............ dont hire em , dont give em welfare , they dont come ..... it isnt rocket science , we dont have to become wanna be rambos .............

You ****in amaze me. What the hell was long winded bull**** about my last post?

Bottom line, illegal aliens have no right to the American dream. **** em.

[cutthemdown]

We just need to inact Mexico's immigration laws. Ever read up on how they treat their illegal immigrants?

I'm sure it's very bad because they hate Americans both white and black alike.

[Spider]

You ****in amaze me. What the hell was long winded bull**** about my last post?

Bottom line, illegal aliens have no right to the American dream. **** em.

wasnt you just bítching about health screens ,before entering the country now you want to **** em ?
read up http://www.thebody.org/content/prev/art5969.html
oh and long winded part is , I just mentioned their intentions and motives , not who they are or their conditions

[cutthemdown]

shooting ? shooting people for wanting a better life ? sound judgment for a physco , let me ask you cut , have you ever really hurt another human being ?
it takes a cold streak that few have ..... much less shoot someone ...... if you want illegal immigration to stop , stop the goofy talk and go after companies that hire them , if there is no work here , they dont come .........

I've also said that you fine the companies that hire them and the jobs would dry up. I don't really want anyone shot that's more just out of frustration. Then again though I live in southern California so for me it hits closer to home. Illegals are everywhere being dirty and stealing every chance they get. Our prisons are full of illegals who committed crimes. I'm sick of seeing them mow lawns, do brick work, be labors. That's work Americans can do as long as there aren't illegals around undercutting the wages. I made 25 grand my senior yr in HS mowing lawns with my brother. No young American HS kid can do that now because you have grown illegal men in groups of 5 doing it faster and cheaper then any kid can. For sure though you are right I wound never shoot someone or want that done as the solution. It was a stupid thing to say.

[Spider]

I've also said that you fine the companies that hire them and the jobs would dry up. I don't really want anyone shot that's more just out of frustration. Then again though I live in southern California so for me it hits closer to home. Illegals are everywhere being dirty and stealing every chance they get. Our prisons are full of illegals who committed crimes. I'm sick of seeing them mow lawns, do brick work, be labors. That's work Americans can do as long as there aren't illegals around undercutting the wages. I made 25 grand my senior yr in HS mowing lawns with my brother. No young American HS kid can do that now because you have grown illegal men in groups of 5 doing it faster and cheaper then any kid can. For sure though you are right I wound never shoot someone or want that done as the solution. It was a stupid thing to say.
yeah I know it is a problem , what Mexico needs is a Jimmy Hoffa , seriously , collective bargaining, more power to the people ........... good old fashion Labor movement..........

[spdirty]

yeah I know it is a problem , what Mexico needs is a Jimmy Hoffa , seriously , collective bargaining, more power to the people ........... good old fashion Labor movement..........

a Cesar Chavez.

[cutthemdown]

yeah I know it is a problem , what Mexico needs is a Jimmy Hoffa , seriously , collective bargaining, more power to the people ........... good old fashion Labor movement..........

They had him he was Ceasar Chavez. The problem was no one took it up after him. I have no problem with Mexican Americans that want to do whatever it is they want. Pursue happiness!!!! My problem is with people only coming here to work and take services for free. They don't add to America IMO and are not entitled to pursue happiness under our constitution.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

69% of Americans want the border secured and the illegals out. 69%!!! So where's the representative democracy?

Representing WalMart, ExxonMobil, Lockheed Martin, Halliburton, et al.

[W*GS]

69% of Americans want the border secured and the illegals out. 69%!!! So where's the representative democracy?

69% want illegals deported? Really.

Why is it so many people use Mexicans as scapegoats, and lash out at them in fear and hatred?

[broncocalijohn]

69% want illegals deported? Really.

Why is it so many people use Mexicans as scapegoats, and lash out at them in fear and hatred?

They are the scapegoats. They are the mass majority of illegals coming in especially when the Mexicans stop all illegals coming from the South countries. Hypocrisy?


Who knows the exact correct percentage as one poll had a majority of citizens wanting some kind of "path way to citizneship or work visas" yet they combine poll answers and word the questions to get a majority. Bush, Wall Street Journal and the conservative Washington paper is going to ruin the Republican party as a whole. Real , middle class, conservative republicans are so far from this. This is a topic that both regular repubs and dems dont want to see pass. Lower middle class will be losing more jobs to unskilled immigrants.

[defenseman]

This immigration bill disgust me on many levels. However, the worst is the fact that the president continues to say this is not amnesty. He's wrong. Mr. President how about funding the laws in place, and ENFORCING THEM. This is not a difficult concept, yet the president and many of our elected officials it appears just don't get it. I hope all of you have contacted your elected senators and congressman, I know I have, and in no uncertian terms all of them know exactly how f**ked up they are if they vote 'yea' on the proposed legislation. Downfall of america will nearly be completed with the passage of such a bill with very little remedy to turn it around. I just flat out despise mexico and everything it stands for..........dman

[Spider]

it is the Large companies that want this , why hire Pete for 12.00 an hour with Bennies , when you can hire Pedro for 4.00 an hour no bennies ?

[ant1999e]

69% want illegals deported? Really.

Why is it so many people use Mexicans as scapegoats, and lash out at them in fear and hatred?

Hate is easy and it spreads quickly. People that are not happy with their life need someone to blame and lash out on. Unfortunately today the people who want a better life for their children are the scapegoats. Should they receive welfare? No. Should they have the right to vote? Probably not. Should we secure the border? Most definetly. Should they be able to work when the unemployment rate is at a record low? Why not? Should they be registered in some kind of database? Yes. If they are convicted of a crime or not registered they should be deported to the other side of the big fence we put up. Should we shoot illegals? Some people think so.

[Spider]

Hate is easy and it spreads quickly. People that are not happy with their life need someone to blame and lash out on. Unfortunately today the people who want a better life for their children are the scapegoats. Should they receive welfare? No. Should they have the right to vote? Probably not. Should we secure the border? Most definetly. Should they be able to work when the unemployment rate is at a record low? Why not? Should they be registered in some kind of database? Yes. If they are convicted of a crime or not registered they should be deported to the other side of the big fence we put up. Should we shoot illegals? Some people think so.

;D

[Rohirrim]

Hate is easy and it spreads quickly. People that are not happy with their life need someone to blame and lash out on. Unfortunately today the people who want a better life for their children are the scapegoats. Should they receive welfare? No. Should they have the right to vote? Probably not. Should we secure the border? Most definetly. Should they be able to work when the unemployment rate is at a record low? Why not? Should they be registered in some kind of database? Yes. If they are convicted of a crime or not registered they should be deported to the other side of the big fence we put up. Should we shoot illegals? Some people think so.

This is not your grandfather's immigration. Bear/Stearns estimates the numbers are probably closer to 30 million than they are to the amnesty crowd's favorite 12 million figure. That's not immigration. That's migration. You want to see what's coming in America? Look to England. Look to Germany. To Holland. To France, where they are now offering money and free transportation to those who voluntarily return to their homelands. Migration is not saving them. It's buckling their societies. It's not adding to their economies. It's destroying them. Keep thinking this immigration is the same as 1986, or 1954, or 1907. Are you in for a surprise!

[W*GS]

Let's say Ro gets his way, and immigration dries up to a tiny trickle, and the illegals are all shipped back.

Say bye-bye to his favorite entitlement programs.

Let's see if Ro can figure out why.

[Rohirrim]

Let's say Ro gets his way, and immigration dries up to a tiny trickle, and the illegals are all shipped back.

Say bye-bye to his favorite entitlement programs.

Let's see if Ro can figure out why.

I thought we were discussing "illegal" immigration? Oh, I forgot how the Rightards like to toss in legal immigration as well to muddy the waters of the discussion.

[W*GS]

Care to figure out the conundrum created by your immigrant-hating views, Ro?

[Rohirrim]

Care to figure out the conundrum created by your immigrant-hating views, Ro?

Immigrant hating? Just making **** up now, eh? I come from a family of immigrants from France, Norway and Ireland. All legal immigrants. I'll just bet there are people in Africa, Europe, Russia, Asia, India, etc. etc. etc. who would love to come over here and work on our farms, hotels, construction sites, meat packing plants, etc. etc. etc. Not only that. I'll bet in a couple of years, they would speak English and would be working diligently toward earning full citizenship. Maybe if we cleared out all of the illegal immigrants, they would have a better chance?

Strange that you would be a proponent of illegal immigration. Perhaps your libertarianism goes so far that you don't even believe that this nation has a sovereign right to control its own borders? That's zealotry for ya.

[broncocalijohn]

I thought we were discussing "illegal" immigration? Oh, I forgot how the Rightards like to toss in legal immigration as well to muddy the waters of the discussion.


Are you kidding me? How many newspeople and newspapers combine both illegals and legals? LA times for one and that is a major lib rag. Unless you are talking about Righttards as Bush like weenies, you'd be correct. Most Republicans never want to see this in the light of day. $22,000 per illegal in benefits when they come over. TImes that by 12 million plus and we have lost money. Doesnt include the deaths, gangs, etc that cost us by lives and $.

[cutthemdown]

it is the Large companies that want this , why hire Pete for 12.00 an hour with Bennies , when you can hire Pedro for 4.00 an hour no bennies ?

I agree with this 100 percent. The big companies can't have it both ways. They want low taxes and illegal labor!!! I think not they will have to give one of those up and my conservatism says it's the cheap workers.

[Spider]

I agree with this 100 percent. The big companies can't have it both ways. They want low taxes and illegal labor!!! I think not they will have to give one of those up and my conservatism says it's the cheap workers.

could be ..... I think alot of it will depend on a national health care , if we pass a National Healthcare plan , then Companies can hire pete for 12.00 an hour and no Bennies , if we dont , then companies will sack low taxes cause of the loopholes and keep the cheap labor , and they will do so by working a guy for 36 hours a week and calling him part time ........

[cutthemdown]

I'm usually not for government programs, but I think healthcare is so big, and so important that the govt will have to step in. Medical care expenses are just crazy there is no way people without insurance can afford a 10 thousand dollar stay in hospital. Hopefully something gets done because having good healthcare is something Americans should all have. Most of us work hard and deserve to be medically taken care of. If it means less money for the war machine then so be it. The funny thing is though that if you want the money to be there, the govt has a way of making it happen. Make it happen politicians!!!! Close the border, get americans better health insurance, try and find a good way to make it seem like we leave iraq on our terms even though it's obvious we either stay forever or lose face. Also we need to start rebuilding the countries infrastructure. IE Dams, freeways, levies, border fences, airports, railways, ports.

[Spider]

I'm usually not for government programs, but I think healthcare is so big, and so important that the govt will have to step in. Medical care expenses are just crazy there is no way people without insurance can afford a 10 thousand dollar stay in hospital. Hopefully something gets done because having good healthcare is something Americans should all have. Most of us work hard and deserve to be medically taken care of. If it means less money for the war machine then so be it. The funny thing is though that if you want the money to be there, the govt has a way of making it happen. Make it happen politicians!!!! Close the border, get americans better health insurance, try and find a good way to make it seem like we leave iraq on our terms even though it's obvious we either stay forever or lose face. Also we need to start rebuilding the countries infrastructure. IE Dams, freeways, levies, border fences, airports, railways, ports.
now you are talking ....... in the long run Health care plan would save money , companies like GM , Ford , would be off the hook for retried peoples healthcare , then take a .25% of that total cost and put it in the kitty to healthcare ,then 1 tenth of a cent for every gallon of Gas and diesel sold into the kitty .......add small charges here and there on different services not exceeding .10% of cost .......not to mention eliminating workmans comp , that is expensive , take 13% of every American that is covered premiums and Healthcare is paid for

[Bob]

But America punishes those who come here legally. Legal immigrants tend to be highly educated, most often holding advanced degrees from top American universities. But they have to remain in limbo for 15 years until they can become citizens.

For those 15 years, they pay more taxes than citizens, pay for medicare and social security (but can't avail of them), can change employers, can't have their families visit them and can't vote.

Taxation without representation. Sounds familiar?

And the new law will make it even worse for them.

It would be common sense to fix that then. Make it better, and reduce the time it takes to process those to come over legally and make it as difficult as you can to come over illegailly and work, get medical services, and welfare.

If the two parties cared more about America than special interest money, and a bought vote, the problem could be more completely addressed. I dont think that the politicans really understand, that if they wanted to get power and keep it -- this is a topic that they should fall in line with, and stay with after getting into office.

[cutthemdown]

We don't need more people in the USA. It's time to stop illegal immigration and curtail legal immigration. America has enough diversity, more then any other country. I think now more then ever we need to work on getting stronger and I don't see immigration helping that. If a foreinger is highly skilled thats a different situation. Bring those ones in they will help us stay on top.

[Play2win]

For all that want to cut entitlement spending, why don't we just get all the freakin' ILLEGALS out of our US of A, and there you go we just cut a sh!tload of entitlement spending...

How can GWB be so adamant about cutting entitlement spending and then promote illegals' Amnesty, which will only INCREASE entitlement spending (alot)...

[atomicbloke]

It would be common sense to fix that then. Make it better, and reduce the time it takes to process those to come over legally and make it as difficult as you can to come over illegailly and work, get medical services, and welfare.

If the two parties cared more about America than special interest money, and a bought vote, the problem could be more completely addressed. I dont think that the politicans really understand, that if they wanted to get power and keep it -- this is a topic that they should fall in line with, and stay with after getting into office.

The new rule did just the opposite of what you suggested.

It rewarded illegal immigrants and made it easier for future illegal immigrants.

It punished legal immigrants who have paid taxes for several years and generally contributed to the economy.

[atomicbloke]

We don't need more people in the USA. It's time to stop illegal immigration and curtail legal immigration. America has enough diversity, more then any other country. I think now more then ever we need to work on getting stronger and I don't see immigration helping that. If a foreinger is highly skilled thats a different situation. Bring those ones in they will help us stay on top.

Such a foreigner would be stupid to come to the United States. It would take more than a decade for him to become a citizen. For that time, he would pay taxes including social security and medicare w/o the benefits, won't be able to vote and couldn't have family visit him.

Frankly, he should go to Canada, UK, Europe or Australia/New Zealand and make those countries prosper as they have more sensible laws for highly skilled immigrants. Or he should sneak in America illegally, not pay taxes for 3 years and then be assured of citizenship in 3 years.

America is the only country where illegal immigration is made easier.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Care to figure out the conundrum created by your immigrant-hating views, Ro?


Ha ha ha! :D

You come up with the most O'Reilly-esque sh*t sometimes.

[W*GS]

You come up with the most O'Reilly-esque sh*t sometimes.

Whereas your stuff is just plain ****.

[yavoon]

Such a foreigner would be stupid to come to the United States. It would take more than a decade for him to become a citizen. For that time, he would pay taxes including social security and medicare w/o the benefits, won't be able to vote and couldn't have family visit him.

Frankly, he should go to Canada, UK, Europe or Australia/New Zealand and make those countries prosper as they have more sensible laws for highly skilled immigrants. Or he should sneak in America illegally, not pay taxes for 3 years and then be assured of citizenship in 3 years.

America is the only country where illegal immigration is made easier.

america is still a good place for highly skilled immigrants, even if our laws are assbackwards. we just pay more, offer more opportunity for advancement and in general are just better.

but yes we should definitely be the BEST place for high skilled immigration in terms of laws, not a relatively bad place. its just insane. we let all the immigrants that ravage our economy in and keep out the ones that would help it as best we can.

[TailgateNut]

I think we should all break the law and then insist that the goverment rewards us, just like they (illegal immigrants) do.

I'd like to ignore the IRS, how 'bout you?

[TailgateNut]

If it ain't white, it ain't right. That's the american way?:USA:


Why have laws, if we don't enforce them. It's better to reward those who decide to break the law.

I think I'll go out and rob a bank. (but you shouldn't charge me with a crime, because I'm doing it to support my family).

Throw them out, and expedite the application of those who have waited in the "legal" immigration system.

BTW: it's not a "white thing", as you try to paint it to be!

[Spider]

Why have laws, if we don't enforce them. It's better to reward those who decide to break the law.

I think I'll go out and rob a bank. (but you shouldn't charge me with a crime, because I'm doing it to support my family).

Throw them out, and expedite the application of those who have waited in the "legal" immigration system.

BTW: it's not a "white thing", as you try to paint it to be!
I had an uncle open up a bank in Grand Island Nebraska ............... he got 20 years , he opened it up @ 3:00 am ...............

[TailgateNut]

I had an uncle open up a bank in Grand Island Nebraska ............... he got 20 years , he opened it up @ 3:00 am ...............

If he would have been an Illegal Immigrant he could have just run back across the border and all would have been ok. . Or he could have bailed out after the arraignment hearing and disappeared into another "identity".

Hey ANT, how much are fake identities these days?

[ant1999e]

Why have laws, if we don't enforce them. It's better to reward those who decide to break the law.

I think I'll go out and rob a bank. (but you shouldn't charge me with a crime, because I'm doing it to support my family).

Throw them out, and expedite the application of those who have waited in the "legal" immigration system.

BTW: it's not a "white thing", as you try to paint it to be!

Look, I agree with most everything suggested here but sometimes I think some people get too hateful. Most of these people aren't criminal. They commited a misdemeanor. Now you have people wanting to shoot them. I think some people are taking it too far. And with some people it is a white thing. You just need to read between the lines.

[Spider]

Look, I agree with most everything suggested here but sometimes I think some people get too hateful. Most of these people aren't criminal. They commited a misdemeanor. Now you have people wanting to shoot them. I think some people are taking it too far. And with some people it is a white thing. You just need to read between the lines.

pretty much .... but just cause we agree here , doesnt mean we will be taking showers together ;D

[ant1999e]

If he would have been an Illegal Immigrant he could have just run back across the border and all would have been ok. . Or he could have bailed out after the arraignment hearing and disappeared into another "identity".

Hey ANT, how much are fake identities these days?

How the **** would I know? Why ask me?

Like I said, I agree they are in the wrong. I just think a more mature dialect is needed and you're a prime example why. Grow the **** up.

[Spider]

How the **** would I know? Why ask me?

.

how easy is it to get another fake ID ? ;D

[TailgateNut]

How the **** would I know? Why ask me?

Like I said, I agree they are in the wrong. I just think a more mature dialect is needed and you're a prime example why. Grow the **** up.

Grow the **** up??? I may just be kidding about the "Identity store question", but I'm not kidding about allowing people to break the law and rewarding them for doing so, while others who pursue the legal road are "punished". It's BS, and they all should either be incarcerated or deported. PERIOD!!! No if's and's or but's!

They are here sucking on our educational system, medical system and are increasing our insurance costs. They ruin people financially by stealing/ using their SSN and identities, whereas the legal immigrant is able to obtain his own "american identity".

Here's your mature dialect: **** them!

[ant1999e]

pretty much .... but just cause we agree here , doesnt mean we will be taking showers together ;D

Oh I'm thinking of more than just a shower.;)

[El Minion]

Look, I agree with most everything suggested here but sometimes I think some people get too hateful. Most of these people aren't criminal. They commited a misdemeanor. Now you have people wanting to shoot them. I think some people are taking it too far. And with some people it is a white thing. You just need to read between the lines.

No it's not (http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/31/preserving-the-white-christian-male-power-structure/).


--------------------

<div class="entry thinkfast" id="post-13434">
<div class="entryContent">
<h2 class="title">Preserving the ‘white, Christian, male power structure.’</h2>
<p>Via <a href="http://atrios.blogspot.com/2007_05_27_archive.html#8237104466728795786">Atrios</a>, Bill O’Reilly and Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) discuss immigration:</p>
<blockquote><p>O’REILLY: <strong>But do you understand what the New York Times wants, and the far-left want? They want to break down the white, Christian, male power structure, which you’re a part, and so am I, and they want to bring in millions of foreign nationals to basically break down the structure that we have.</strong> In that regard, Pat Buchanan is right. So I say you’ve got to cap with a number.</p>
<p>MCCAIN: In America today we’ve got a very strong economy and low unemployment, so we need addition farm workers, including by the way agriculture, but there may come a time where we have an economic downturn, and we don’t need so many.</p>
<p>O’REILLY: But in this bill, you guys have got to cap it. Because estimation is 12 million, there may be 20 [million]. You don’t know, I don’t know. We’ve got to cap it.</p>
<p>MCCAIN: <strong>We do, we do. I agree with you.</strong></p></blockquote>
<p>Watch it:</p>
<div style="text-align: center;"> <div id="flvmccainwhitepower32024013434">
<img src="http://images2.americanprogressaction.org/ThinkProgress/flv/2007/05/mccainwhitepower.320.240.jpg" width="320" height="240" title="To watch this clip, install Flash Player and enable JavaScript in your browser" alt="Screenshot" />
</div>
<script type="text/javascript">
var flvmccainwhitepower32024013434 = new SWFObject('/wp-content/plugins/flvplayer.swf?file=http://images2.americanprogressaction.org/ThinkProgress/flv/2007/05/mccainwhitepower.320.240.flv&amp;autoStart=false', 'em-flvmccainwhitepower32024013434', '320', '260', '6', '#ffffff');
flvmccainwhitepower32024013434.addParam('quality', 'high');
flvmccainwhitepower32024013434.addParam('wmode', 'transparent');
flvmccainwhitepower32024013434.write('flvmccainwhi tepower32024013434');
</script></div>
<p><a href="http://digg.com/politics/McCain_O_Reilly_Want_To_Save_The_White_Christian_M ale_Power_Structure">Digg It!</a></p>
<p>&nbsp; <span class="thinkfastlinks"> 10:45 am | <a href="http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/31/preserving-the-white-christian-male-power-structure/#comments">Comment</a>&nbsp;(154)</span></p>
</div>

[Rohirrim]

O'Reilly represents white America. Okeedokee.

[ant1999e]

O'Reilly represents white America. Okeedokee.

I didn't say it was racial with all white people but when someone starts talking about shooting illegals like animals, that is hate and hate for a specific race is racial.

[ant1999e]

Why have laws, if we don't enforce them. It's better to reward those who decide to break the law.

I think I'll go out and rob a bank. (but you shouldn't charge me with a crime, because I'm doing it to support my family).

Throw them out, and expedite the application of those who have waited in the "legal" immigration system.

BTW: it's not a "white thing", as you try to paint it to be!

Explain away this.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=52882

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Explain away this.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=52882

Much ado about nothing.

[ant1999e]

Much ado about nothing.

It gives some validity to my argument.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

O'Reilly represents white America. Okeedokee.

Sure he does.

If, by "white America," you mean the 'Talladega Nights' demographic.

:D

http://www.bartcop.com/gonzo-theater.JPG

[ant1999e]

[QUOTE=L.A. BRONCOS FAN;1604082]Sure he does.

If, by "white America," you mean the 'Talladega Nights' demographic.

:D



I'm glad you think your so much better than the Southern White Folks.
:oyvey:

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I'm glad you think your so much better than the Southern White Folks.
:oyvey:

All I said was those are the "white folks" O'Liely represents - not the rest of us.

[atomicbloke]

Famous immigrant entrepreuners.

http://www.forbes.com/2007/05/21/outsourcing-entrepreneurs-immigrants-oped-cx_mc_0522entrepreneurs_slide_2.html?partner=redif f

[RMT]

Famous immigrant entrepreuners.

http://www.forbes.com/2007/05/21/outsourcing-entrepreneurs-immigrants-oped-cx_mc_0522entrepreneurs_slide_2.html?partner=redif f

Nice read ... note that all were either European or Asian immigrants.

[RMT]

New currency if immigration bill is passed ...

http://michellemalkin.com/archives/images/cerodinero.jpg

[atomicbloke]

New currency if immigration bill is passed ...

http://michellemalkin.com/archives/images/cerodinero.jpg

Link didn't work.

[RMT]

Link didn't work.

that's odd - it's showing up on my end.

[mosca]

Hate is easy and it spreads quickly. People that are not happy with their life need someone to blame and lash out on. Unfortunately today the people who want a better life for their children are the scapegoats. Should they receive welfare? No. Should they have the right to vote? Probably not. Should we secure the border? Most definetly. Should they be able to work when the unemployment rate is at a record low? Why not? Should they be registered in some kind of database? Yes. If they are convicted of a crime or not registered they should be deported to the other side of the big fence we put up. Should we shoot illegals? Some people think so.
The low unemployment rate is only one gauge of the economy in this country. Take into account that more working and middle class people have to work two jobs to make ends meet, more are working more hours than ever before, and the fact that median incomes for younger workers (usually those competing with illegals) are well below what they were in 1970. Rising competition from illegal immigrants is not the only reason for all of this, but it is a factor.

I understand how many Mexican illegals simply want a better life for their families, but first priority has to go to Americans and their families.

[RMT]

The low unemployment rate is only one gauge of the economy in this country. Take into account that more working and middle class people have to work two jobs to make ends meet, more are working more hours than ever before, and the fact that median incomes for younger workers (usually those competing with illegals) are well below what they were in 1970. Rising competition from illegal immigrants is not the only reason for all of this, but it is a factor.

I understand how many Mexican illegals simply want a better life for their families, but first priority has to go to Americans and their families.

Exactly but the American family has taken a back seat to corporate America and the U.S. government. Our government does not represent the average American anymore. They represent themselves and lobbyists who influence congressional votes.

[Spider]

I understand how many Mexican illegals simply want a better life for their families, but first priority has to go to Americans and their families.

agreed American workers first and foremost ( I went rounds with several here over outsourcing Jobs) Part where I part company with alot is when they talk about shooting or torturing , or letting these people die in the desert ................

[cutthemdown]

The solution to the problem has already been mentioned severel times. Simply levy huge fines on anyone who hires an illegal alien. Do that and we wouldn't even need a border fence.

[ant1999e]

New currency if immigration bill is passed ...

http://michellemalkin.com/archives/images/cerodinero.jpg

You might want to put a few democrates on some of the currency also buddy. It's not all bush.

[W*GS]

The anti-Mexican nativism being displayed here is disgusting.

[spdirty]

The anti-Mexican nativism being displayed here is disgusting.

Really? I think the blatant disregard for the rule of law is disgusting.

[TailgateNut]

Really? I think the blatant disregard for the rule of law is disgusting.



That's the one key issue "The Minion" and "The Ant" don't seem to get in their thick skulls.
Why DO we allow illegals to break the law while our own citizens must obey the laws??? I just doesn't compute!

...and re: Wags comment. How about the concept of "PRO AMERICAN CITIZEN".

Why on earth should I/we support any type of amnesty for millions of lawbreakers? ..and if we do not support the criminals, then we are labeled racists. NICE!

Label me as you wish, but if you support this "Amnesty Bill" you condone and endorse illegal immigration, which is "BREAKING THE LAWS", which are currently "on the books".

Enforce the laws by fining the employers, deporting the criminals or incarcerating them if they have stolen identities to rape our system.
Nothing less is acceptable.

Those who support them should also be charged as accessories after the fact.

[Rohirrim]

The problem here is that Bush and Kennedy and the other amnesty bozos are once again, misdirecting the American people by using the wrong language. It reminds me of when the Bush cabal refused to use the term "insurgency" and then "civil war."

We are not talking about immigration here, therefore, no immigration bill is going to do anything about it. 500,000 people would be immigration. Maybe even a million, we could consider immigration. 20 million is a migration. 20 million is a flood of refugees. 20 million means that Mexico is coming off the wheels. An new immigration bill would be a band aid. And not even a good one. In order to deal with this, we need to start using the right language.

[TailgateNut]

The problem here is that Bush and Kennedy and the other amnesty bozos are once again, misdirecting the American people by using the wrong language. It reminds me of when the Bush cabal refused to use the term "insurgency" and then "civil war."

We are not talking about immigration here, therefore, no immigration bill is going to do anything about it. 500,000 people would be immigration. Maybe even a million, we could consider immigration. 20 million is a migration. 20 million is a flood of refugees. 20 million means that Mexico is coming off the wheels. An new immigration bill would be a band aid. And not even a good one. In order to deal with this, we need to start using the right language.


Now we're hitting the "nail on the head". We keep hearing 12 million. Did they all call in to register their presence???

I personally believe the numbers are much higher. Maybe 12 million came here, but then most of the hispanic families have many children (anchor babies). So, using that logic/ math: if 12 million "migrated" to the US and each had 3-6 children, then the "real numbers" are closer to 18-36 million.
That's one in ten (+-), which seems closer to reality in this neck o the woods.

The reason the goverment doesn't want to use the "right language" is the fact that it will expose the impact of the failure of their immigration control, or lack thereof!

[Rohirrim]

The U.S. government is lying through its teeth:

The Wall Street investment firm Bear Stearns, conducting its own research on the illegal immigration to the United States and its impact on the economy, concludes that the government has grossly underestimated the size of the illegal population. In a report entitled, "The Underground Labor Force is Rising to the Surface," issued on Jan. 3, researchers Robert Justich and Betty Ng, conclude that the illegal alien population of the U.S. is about 20 million people—roughly the equivalent of the population of New York State—more than double the official government estimates of about 9 million.

http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=research_research1981

The report estimates that illegal aliens hold between 12 and 15 million jobs in the U.S., and constitute about 8 percent of the current labor force. Moreover, since 1990, between 4 and 6 million jobs have shifted to the underground labor market as employers rush to take advantage of low wage illegal alien labor. As a result of this phenomenon the average annual earnings of American workers has been reduced by 4 to 6 percent. "We believe that immigration is becoming one of the most significant economic themes of this decade," states the report. Bear Stearns warns that what appears to be cheap labor comes at a very high price. "The social expenses of health care, retirement funding, education and law enforcement are potentially accruing at $30 billion per year. Many of these costs lag and will not be realized until the next economic downturn and beyond as new immigrants require a safety net."

Justich and Ng also estimate that the government is foregoing $35 billion a year in tax revenues because an estimated 5 million illegal aliens are employed in the underground economy. "The United States is simply hooked on cheap, illegal workers and deferring the costs of providing public services to these quasi-American," says the study.
Barron's magazine, the prestigious financial publication, concurs with the Bear Stearns assessment. According to Barron's the underground economy of the United States, which is largely fueled by mass illegal immigration, is valued at about $1 trillion a year, or 9 percent of GDP. If this untaxed portion of the economy were accessible to the IRS, the entire federal budget deficit could be wiped out overnight.

[W*GS]

Other studies have shown that only very low-skilled Americans (i.e., without even a high school diploma) have had their wages impacted by illegal immigrants.

I certainly don't see many illegals (let's be honest here, and say "Mexicans") competing for skilled positions.

Basically, if you're an adult, and the best job you can do is the kind of work Mexicans do, you're competing against them. Otherwise, Mexicans make your life better, because they work for less and reduce the costs of the services and goods you demand.

[Rohirrim]

Other studies have shown that only very low-skilled Americans (i.e., without even a high school diploma) have had their wages impacted by illegal immigrants.

I certainly don't see many illegals (let's be honest here, and say "Mexicans") competing for skilled positions.

Basically, if you're an adult, and the best job you can do is the kind of work Mexicans do, you're competing against them. Otherwise, Mexicans make your life better, because they work for less and reduce the costs of the services and goods you demand.

That's an extremely limited focus of impact. As the Bear Stearns report also points out, we're talking about billions in lost tax revenue and billions in social service costs. Not to mention the gross overpopulation of America and the effects that will have. The Bear Stearn report estimates that if we don't stop it, we're looking at 420 million people by 2050. We're talking about the collapse of our entire social structure - schools, hospitals, etc. I'm sure that idea just tickles you, but for the future of this country, it will be devastating.

[TailgateNut]

As long as no one quotes you, you are invisible to me.

Life is GOOD!

BTW: how can someone who wishes the goverment would stay out of thier life, live in Boulder. Talk about goverment! That place is a f-ing joke. The only ones who have rights there are the Prairee Dogs (rats).

[W*GS]

That's an extremely limited focus of impact. As the Bear Stearns report also points out, we're talking about billions in lost tax revenue and billions in social service costs.

Never mind many illegals pay into the system and don't get the benefits. Or do illegals not pay sales taxes and all the other taxes we get dinged with?

It's not clear to me that illegals are an obvious negative.

Not to mention the gross overpopulation of America and the effects that will have. The Bear Stearn report estimates that if we don't stop it, we're looking at 420 million people by 2050.

Another 120 million in only 43 years? How do they figure that? That's ridiculous - check what they assume is the growth rate, or, the number of kids per woman. That figure sounds completely out of line.

We're talking about the collapse of our entire social structure - schools, hospitals, etc. I'm sure that idea just tickles you, but for the future of this country, it will be devastating.

Sigh.

Overall, Ro, I'd say the amount of fear of not-us overrides almost everything worthwhile you have to say. You fear illegals, you fear Mexicans, you fear China... What that tells me is that you're easy prey for those who play up your fears - the Buchanans, the Lou Dobbs-types, and the others. You're also very down on America - you may not consciously accept that, but when you write things like the bit above, you're assuming that Mexicans will wreck this nation. You would have found a comfortable home in the late 19th century and early 20th, with those who decried the arrival of all those Irish, and Italians, and others, who would irretrievably wreck this nation.

[W*GS]

Another 120 million in only 43 years? How do they figure that? That's ridiculous - check what they assume is the growth rate, or, the number of kids per woman. That figure sounds completely out of line.

My bad. I checked the US Census, and that's what they project.

Interesting.

[Rohirrim]

Never mind many illegals pay into the system and don't get the benefits. Or do illegals not pay sales taxes and all the other taxes we get dinged with?

It's not clear to me that illegals are an obvious negative.



Another 120 million in only 43 years? How do they figure that? That's ridiculous - check what they assume is the growth rate, or, the number of kids per woman. That figure sounds completely out of line.



Sigh.

Overall, Ro, I'd say the amount of fear of not-us overrides almost everything worthwhile you have to say. You fear illegals, you fear Mexicans, you fear China... What that tells me is that you're easy prey for those who play up your fears - the Buchanans, the Lou Dobbs-types, and the others. You're also very down on America - you may not consciously accept that, but when you write things like the bit above, you're assuming that Mexicans will wreck this nation. You would have found a comfortable home in the late 19th century and early 20th, with those who decried the arrival of all those Irish, and Italians, and others, who would irretrievably wreck this nation.

You should educate yourself, as should anyone who believes that the current flood of Mexicans AND Central Americans is somehow analogous to the immigration of the early 20th century, and late 19th. The comparison is laughable. In the first place, the numbers are vastly different. In the second place, America was in the midst of an industrial revolution and needed every worker who showed up to plug into its massive manufacturing base, which no longer exists (we lost 3 million manufacturing jobs last year). And third, even at its height, we were able to assimilate all of these immigrants because they came from different cultural groups from all over the world - and they came to stay and create a new life, in a new land - and even then, not without problems.

We have never experienced this kind of refugee migration, in these kinds of numbers, from a single culture group. This is an entirely new, social experiment and our previous immigration experiences have no correlation at all. We shouldn't look to our own history for examples. We should look to France, Germany and England to get an idea of what happens when vast numbers of immigrants from single culture groups create an enormous underclass in your society. France is now offering free transportation and $3,000 to those who will agree to leave in order to forestall imminent social collapse. Germany, Holland and England are in the same boat.

As far as China goes, they represent pretty much the opposite of everything America stands for and everything I believe in. They are a repressive, murderous, tyrannical dictatorship that suppresses all forms of freedom and are currently using the wealth they are gleaning from the actions of greedy American collaborators to build the most massive armed forces on earth, while at the same time, nurturing a nationalist movement that gains more power every day. If you're not aware of what China is up to, you should change your name to Chamberlain.

[Play2win]

Amnesty (of illegal immigrants) is Anti-American (USA) semitism.

Anybody that condones Amnesty should be looked at as an enemy to the state.

[TailgateNut]

It's not clear to Wags that Illegal Immigrants are a negative. WTF?

Let's see: Jose' crosses the border illegaly, he takes a position as a landscape laborer or farm worker for cash(he doesn't pay income taxes and sends the majority of his pay home)=not good for the nation.
Juan crosses the border illegaly, he takes a position at a construction company with a forged SSN, he claims enough dependents to nullify his tax burden , sends his 5 children who were born at the "free clinic" to the local school distrist where they receive "free lunches" = not good for the nation.


Those who believe these people with forged documents are absorbing their share of the burden are not paying attention, and if they are handed a clean slate will become a major burden to our nation without ever paying their fair share of the costs.

How many American citizens can break the law and get rewarded for doing so?

[Play2win]

Couldn't you bend it, like, All these forged SSN's are cases of Identity Theft.

With Identity Theft being such a HUGE issue (especially with one's bank accounts), if you frame all these Illegals as Identity Thefts, It could really change the perception of what is really going on.

Because, be it if the illegals are using forged SSN's or not, they are still guilty of Identity Theft. The Identity Theft of a law-abiding tax-paying American (USA) Citizen!!!

[TailgateNut]

Couldn't you bend it, like, All these forged SSN's are cases of Identity Theft.

With Identity Theft being such a HUGE issue (especially with one's bank accounts), if you frame all these Illegals as Identity Thefts, It could really change the perception of what is really going on.

Because, be it if the illegals are using forged SSN's or not, they are still guilty of Identity Theft. The Identity Theft of a law-abiding tax-paying American (USA) Citizen!!!


Bend it??? There's no bending about it. I assume many of these SSN are pulled out of thin air, but by coincidence I would also have to assume some if not many of these same SSN's could belong to someone. The IRS looks at the $$$ earned and then some poor unsuspecting citizen has to prove to them that they did not earn the money reported.

[Play2win]

Bend it??? There's no bending about it. I assume many of these SSN are pulled out of thin air, but by coincidence I would also have to assume some if not many of these same SSN's could belong to someone. The IRS looks at the $$$ earned and then some poor unsuspecting citizen has to prove to them that they did not earn the money reported.

Bend it so the average (faux watching) citizen finallly gets it. Identity Theft will hit home with everyone, even the complete sheep.

Identity Theft is exactly what will happen if Amnesty does happen, Because AMERICA as a whole will lose Identity of who she is.

[Spider]

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[ant1999e]

I haven't heard that song forever.

[Spider]

I haven't heard that song forever.

LOL same here .............

[Spider]

elvira was hot back in the day

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Amnesty (of illegal immigrants) is Anti-American

:yep: :thumbsup:

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Bush Attacks Unpatriotic Conservative Republicans

As Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) calls conservatives who oppose the immigration bill bigots and promises to shut them up, the president calls them unpatriotic and turns his demonization politics against the Republican Party’s base.

Here is the state of play for Republicans: the conservative Republicans accuse progressive Democrats of being unpatriotic, while the president accuses conservative Republicans of being unpatriotic.

The worm turns.

The revolution begins.

Already the pundit class proclaims how the Democrats are enjoying this.

If Democrats are enjoying this, here is the state of play: 70 percent of the American people do not approve of the president, do not approve of the Republicans in Congress, do not approve of the Democratic Congress, do not approve of the Iraq war, and do not approve of anything coming out of official Washington today.

It is America versus Washington.

For the Democrats in Washington on Iraq, and for the Republicans in Washington on immigration, the Washington insider classes have alienated and often disgusted the political base of both parties and the enormous and growing number of independent voters.

Remember this phrase: America versus Washington.

Consider this prediction: By September 2007 the Republican president and Democratic Congress will both have favorable ratings under 25 percent.

Will 2008 be a sweeping anti-incumbent election?

What happens when both political parties so dramatically alienate both their respective political bases, and the mass of independent voters, at the same time?

It’s America versus Washington, and my bet is that America will win.

Fasten your seatbelts, folks.

http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/7868

[Rohirrim]

The Dems are making some major miscalculations. This election could turn on immigration. It's the one issue the working people of America, ie. the majority, are extremely focussed on. So far, the Dems have lined themselves up on the wrong side - the Ted Kennedy side of the issue. Hillary is happy because she's leading in the Dem polls and carrying a majority of the women. What she's ignoring is all those Reagan Democrats, working men, who very well may decide the election based on that single issue. The Repugs know this. That's why they're scrambling. The Dems are oblivious.

[alkemical]

Why do those in D.C want to sell the american dream? Why are they betraying us?

[Rohirrim]

Why do those in D.C want to sell the american dream? Why are they betraying us?

Deep Throat: "Follow the money."

[alkemical]

Ro~

When i follow the money - it leads possible to some big scandles that never get news or media recognition. Not to mention, if i question the official story - i'm labled unpatriotic. I'm often riduculed by my fellow citizens for being a crack pot. This makes my position as an ordinary citizen uncomfortable. Wouldn't it be better if i just would "shut up and pay my taxes"?

[Rohirrim]

http://www.bearstearns.com/bscportal/pdfs/underground.pdf

This is the Bear Stearns article I've talked about on this thread. I think it clarifies the issue nicely.

[ant1999e]

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?sid=175

I wonder how many of you are members of these organizations.

[Rohirrim]

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?sid=175

I wonder how many of you are members of these organizations.

The SPLC believes that everyone who disagrees with them is a racist. Alert the presses! People need to wake the **** up. If we don't stop this flood and turn it around, in 2050 there will be 420 million, or more, people in this country. Our social systems will completely collapse. Read the Bear Stearns report I posted above. Quit protecting your weak concepts by simply squealing that everybody is racist. Get the facts.

[W*GS]

Ro, before you get all hysterical (which may be too late) consider that these folks may be the only way to save your precious entitlement and welfare programs. Indeed, Bush, by offering a form of amnesty, may just keep SS and Medicare/Medicaid viable. Otherwise, the US will suffer the same demographic crisis as Japan, Germany, Italy and other countries are facing.

[RMT]

Other studies have shown that only very low-skilled Americans (i.e., without even a high school diploma) have had their wages impacted by illegal immigrants.

I certainly don't see many illegals (let's be honest here, and say "Mexicans") competing for skilled positions.

Basically, if you're an adult, and the best job you can do is the kind of work Mexicans do, you're competing against them. Otherwise, Mexicans make your life better, because they work for less and reduce the costs of the services and goods you demand.

Don't forget the cost to the taxpayers for free healthcare, education (at around $6000/child ANNUALLY - a family with 4 kids will cost taxpayers about $300,000 total, assuming that all 4 children actually graduate from high school), and other free social services they get that the average American is not "entitled" to.

[RMT]

You should educate yourself, as should anyone who believes that the current flood of Mexicans AND Central Americans is somehow analogous to the immigration of the early 20th century, and late 19th. The comparison is laughable. In the first place, the numbers are vastly different. In the second place, America was in the midst of an industrial revolution and needed every worker who showed up to plug into its massive manufacturing base, which no longer exists (we lost 3 million manufacturing jobs last year). And third, even at its height, we were able to assimilate all of these immigrants because they came from different cultural groups from all over the world - and they came to stay and create a new life, in a new land - and even then, not without problems.

We have never experienced this kind of refugee migration, in these kinds of numbers, from a single culture group. This is an entirely new, social experiment and our previous immigration experiences have no correlation at all. We shouldn't look to our own history for examples. We should look to France, Germany and England to get an idea of what happens when vast numbers of immigrants from single culture groups create an enormous underclass in your society. France is now offering free transportation and $3,000 to those who will agree to leave in order to forestall imminent social collapse. Germany, Holland and England are in the same boat.

As far as China goes, they represent pretty much the opposite of everything America stands for and everything I believe in. They are a repressive, murderous, tyrannical dictatorship that suppresses all forms of freedom and are currently using the wealth they are gleaning from the actions of greedy American collaborators to build the most massive armed forces on earth, while at the same time, nurturing a nationalist movement that gains more power every day. If you're not aware of what China is up to, you should change your name to Chamberlain.

Great points - don't forget to mention that back then we didn't have a welfare system in place that could be abused by those coming to America. Immigrants came knowing that they had to work to survive - no handouts. Illegals now feel empowered to change our culture and language while simultaneously feeling entitled to everything because of 1848.

[TailgateNut]

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?sid=175

I wonder how many of you are members of these organizations.


Not yet, but thanks for the info! Instead of making contributions to candidates this and next year, I'll find a few of these groups who are deserving of my $$$!

[ant1999e]

The SPLC believes that everyone who disagrees with them is a racist. Alert the presses! People need to wake the **** up. If we don't stop this flood and turn it around, in 2050 there will be 420 million, or more, people in this country. Our social systems will completely collapse. Read the Bear Stearns report I posted above. Quit protecting your weak concepts by simply squealing that everybody is racist. Get the facts.

You're so racist. Is your avatar your dream of a future America? Nothing but white faces?

Just joking.:wiggle: :stirstir:

[ant1999e]

Not yet, but thanks for the info! Instead of making contributions to candidates this and next year, I'll find a few of these groups who are deserving of my $$$!

I bet you will.

[Rohirrim]

You're so racist. Is your avatar your dream of a future America? Nothing but white faces?

Just joking.:wiggle: :stirstir:

No. I just like bald, oriental women. ;)

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

"For the first time in Pew Research Center polling, Bush's disapproval numbers are more than two-to-one (61% to 29%) against him. Bush's job approval is down six points from April, and is three points below the previous low measured in November and December of 2006. The decline is most notable among Republicans. Just 65% of Republicans approve of him today, down from 77% in April." Support from moderate and liberal Republicans fell 11 points (to 52%), also an all-time low."

- Pew Research Poll

http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=334

http://www.bartcop.com/decider-idiot.jpg