Kircus in trouble with the law?

[bap454]

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_5944834?source=rss


Wow! This is all we need.

[Kaylore]

That doesn't sound like him. Remember people, let's learn what happened before we rake him over the coals. I wonder if it was a fight and this guy just learned who he was and wants some money. Maybe it was nothing at all.

[Los Broncos]

After reading that i hope not, he might end up back at subway.

[watermock]

Dammit. Looks like we are going to score on PFT's Turd Watch. Let it play out just like Vick. I agree it doesn't sound like him but it was early in the morning at a party. Doesn't sound like a simple black eye.

He wasn't arrested so it ma be a typically confusing event. Shanahan can't insist players get into their snug as a bugs by midnight, but I wish he could. It seems like almost all this crap happens in the early morning.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Strike 2 if it turns out to be true...he has a DUI in 2005.

[Los Broncos]

Strike 2 if it turns out to be true...he has a DUI in 2005.

DUI's suck, glad i don't have any.

[orange crusher]

This is surprising. He is one of the last people on the team that I would have thought would get into trouble. Not that I know him personally, but I have seen him with the fans after games and he really seems like a genuinely nice and down to earth person. He doesn't at all seem like the kind of person to instigate something with another person. I guess we'll soon find out more about what happened, but I would be shocked if he did something like this without some serious provoking.

[SoCalBronco]

Well...if there is really something there, David won't be doing his dance in warm ups for much longer. It'll be back to "White, Italian, Herb and Cheese or Honey Wheat?"

But I agree that it doesnt seem like him at all and we should reserve judgment until it plays out.

[Kaylore]

Well...if there is really something there, David won't be doing his dance in warm ups for much longer. It'll be back to "White, Italian, Herb and Cheese or Honey Wheat?"

But I agree that it doesnt seem like him at all and we should reserve judgment until it plays out.

Foot long cold cut trio on Parmesan oregano with all the vegies, pepper jack cheese and a bit oil and vinegar. Sea Salt and vinegar chips, please.:thumbsup:

[watermock]

Bag that for me Kurt.

[footstepsfrom#27]

That doesn't sound like him. Remember people, let's learn what happened before we rake him over the coals. I wonder if it was a fight and this guy just learned who he was and wants some money. Maybe it was nothing at all.
Kircus may be a great guy...but his brother is definitely a major POS...

http://www.macombdaily.com/stories/031205/loc_murdered%20woman001.shtml

[Los Broncos]

Kircus may be a great guy...but his brother is definitely a major POS...

http://www.macombdaily.com/stories/031205/loc_murdered%20woman001.shtml


Dam, big time.

[Popps]

Shocking.

[Popps]

Just for fun, checked the NFL headlines at CBS. No mention of this, but there was naturally another arrest for assault. This time Pro Bowler Justin Miller...

http://www.cbs.sportsline.com/nfl/story/10190440

Just a bunch of normal guys at an average workplace, ya know? Nothing to see here.

[UltimateHoboW/Shotgun]

But I agree that it doesnt seem like him at all and we should reserve judgment until it plays out.

Reserve judgement? Why? Breathilzer don't lie. Women on the other hand.

[bronco militia]

A backup receiver and part-time return specialist for the Broncos last season, Kircus had nine receptions for a team-leading 20.8 yard-per-catch average and six punt returns for a 14.3-yard average.

crap...what will we ever do without him?!?!?!?

::) Ha!

[DenverBrit]

"An individual who identified himself (at the party) as Kircus was involved in an allegation that resulted in an assault,"

Would someone really misrepresent themselves at a party, pretend to be a pro team player, to get laid? :dummy:

Hopefully, that's exactly what happened.

If not, he will open a roster spot, assuming he would make the team again.

[scorpio]

On KOA just now they said it was a woman who was beaten up at a party and a guy identifying himself as Kircus participated in the assault.

[BroncoInferno]

Innocent or guilty, Kircus is inconsequential to this team regardless.

[Breck Bronc]

He's a thug.

[yerner]

Beating up a woman?

[theAPAOps5]

If it is a girl and that much damage was done and he was involved then he is a certified piece of ****. But lets wait until he is convicted because pretty much anything printed in the media isn't correct.

[scorpio]

So far KOA is the only one who said it was a woman, probably just the usual good job of their morning "talent"

[plummershelper]

I think Miller was the one who allegedly hit a woman. They may have mixed up the stories on KOA. Boy, it sure is a good thing we signed David Terrell ;)

[Old Dude]

All the reports I've seen say that it was a fistfight between two males.

Kircus isn't that well known around here, so it wouldn't be ridiculous to think someone was impersonating him at a party, but I have a gut feeling there's more to it than that. If it hadn't been him at all, I would have expected to see a quick and public denial. But the day is still early. The police investigation will sort it all out, I'm sure.

[DenverBrit]

All the reports I've seen say that it was a fistfight between two males.

Kircus isn't that well known around here, so it wouldn't be ridiculous to think someone was impersonating him at a party, but I have a gut feeling there's more to it than that. If it hadn't been him at all, I would have expected to see a quick and public denial. But the day is still early. The police investigation will sort it all out, I'm sure.

Good point.

[footstepsfrom#27]

If it is a girl and that much damage was done and he was involved then he is a certified piece of ****. But lets wait until he is convicted because pretty much anything printed in the media isn't correct.
That would be funnier if it wasn't said related to a story that looks like it might be WRONG...LOL

[footstepsfrom#27]

If it hadn't been him at all, I would have expected to see a quick and public denial. But the day is still early. The police investigation will sort it all out, I'm sure.
That's what I was thinking. His lawyer has already had time to comment, so obviously he's been in touch with him. If this is purely mistaken identity, I would have also expected an instant denial. It could still be some extenuating circumstances but we'll probably know by today.

[bendog]

Guy prolly called Jason a fat fag.

[theAPAOps5]

That would be funnier if it wasn't said related to a story that looks like it might be WRONG...LOL

Almost ALL of them are wrong. I hope it wrong in this case. Kircus is in some trouble if that is the case. Sounds like he made that guys face his bitch.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Almost ALL of them are wrong. I hope it wrong in this case. Kircus is in some trouble if that is the case. Sounds like he made that guys face his b****.
KOA is the only one reporting it's a woman. The other media accounts agree it's a male victim. Just hope that Kircus doesn't take after his brother.

He murdered his wife on their honeymoon.

[bendog]

Dude, do you get some joy in digging up **** on some guy's family even when he had nothing to do with it? For all we know, Circus got into a fistfight with another guy at a party. Something to monitor. But dragging in a guy's family .... that's lame.

[Popps]

Broncos wide receiver David Kircus may be the latest in the very long line of NFL players in legal trouble. A day after Jets kick returner Justin Miller was arrested comes word from both the Rocky Mountain News and Denver Post that Kircus is being investigated in connection with an assault that left a 26-year-old man with broken facial bones.

Didn't this stupid reporter get the "deny everything" memo.

There's no problem in the NFL.

It's just a "microcosm!!"

When are people going to cover.... uhmmm.. open their eyes .

[Beantown Bronco]

I can understand a guy claiming to be the starting QB of the Steelers in order to get some tail at a party.....but an unknown special teams player/potential #5 WR for the Broncos?!? That would be classic.

[orange crusher]

I can understand a guy claiming to be the starting QB of the Steelers in order to get some tail at a party.....but an unknown special teams player/potential #5 WR for the Broncos?!? That would be classic.

I believe the guy that claimed to be Roethlisberger also represented himself as Brian St. Pierre, the third string QB, so it wouldn't be all that unusual. A guy probably has a better chance at getting that piece of tail and not getting caught in his lie if he poses as a lesser known player with money.

[fdf]

Wow! This is all we need.

If Kircus punched him hard enough to break facial bones, Kircus has a badly messed up hand today. The most common hospital admittance after a fist fight is the guy who threw the great punch--and broke his own hand.

[RkyMtnThunder]

I can understand a guy claiming to be the starting QB of the Steelers in order to get some tail at a party.....but an unknown special teams player/potential #5 WR for the Broncos?!? That would be classic.

It would be easier to do. Kircus name is more recognizable than his face.


Even then, there has got to be some bimbos who wouldnt care how deep on the roster someone was, only that he was a 'Bronco' so they could brag to their buddies.

Will be interesting to see how this unfolds. Hopefully he is in the clear. If not, I dont think his value to the team would be greater than the example Shanny could set.

[theAPAOps5]

If Kircus punched him hard enough to break facial bones, Kircus has a badly messed up hand today. The most common hospital admittance after a fist fight is the guy who threw the great punch--and broke his own hand.

Very true unless he head butted the dude or, and this would be really bad, had some sort of weapon. But this is getting way to far into speculation.

[telluride]

If he's involved, Shanny needs to cut him, immediately. He's not worth any sort of angina over his personal behavior.

On a related note, the team really does need to slap year-round curfews on these idiots. What's he doing out at some kegger at 3:10 a.m.? Grow up, for heaven's sake.

[Northman]

Foot long cold cut trio on Parmesan oregano with all the vegies, pepper jack cheese and a bit oil and vinegar. Sea Salt and vinegar chips, please.:thumbsup:


No no no, Ft long Tuna with Bacon on Hearty Italian. Get it right man! ;D

[dbfan21]

Looks like Kircus just turned himself in to the police...

http://cbs4denver.com/breakingnewsalerts/local_story_141082530.html

[Popps]

Just release this stupid ****. I don't even want to hear about it.

Typical NFL jackoff. ****ting on a civilized society that's handed them a great life.

Guess we can put the race issue to bed for a while, huh? I told you this wasn't about race, it's about employment... and the NFL employs and fosters criminal behavior.

[Popps]

If he's involved, Shanny needs to cut him, immediately. He's not worth any sort of angina over his personal behavior.


Agree, but even further.... NO player's talents are worth putting up with this stuff.

The sad thing for David (besides being a jackoff) is that he isn't that great, so he'll get less coddling than a skilled thug would.

Ray Lewis practically killed a guy and was on the cover of Madden the next year.

[kamakazi_kal]

well........guess its back to hearing

"I said no mayo on my cold cut combo, sandwich artist my a$$"

[Old Dude]

bye bye, David. Nice knowin' ya'.

[RunSilentRunDeep]

Agree, but even further.... NO player's talents are worth putting up with this stuff.

The sad thing for David (besides being a jackoff) is that he isn't that great, so he'll get less coddling than a skilled thug would.

Ray Lewis practically killed a guy and was on the cover of Madden the next year.

Don't be so generous. He flat out sucks.

[RkyMtnThunder]

Looks like Kircus just turned himself in to the police...

http://cbs4denver.com/breakingnewsalerts/local_story_141082530.html



Dont like the sounds of that. Arguing with some girl - asked to leave by the homeowner, socks the homeowner on his way out.

Excellent display of behavior as a 'guest'

Nice. Very nice.

[theAPAOps5]

Don't let the door hit you on the ass. There is a nice subway at Arapahoe and Peoria, better make my sandwich correct.

[DeuceOfClub]

http://i2.chargers.com/assets/177/32887_699w393h.jpg

[bendog]

Supersize me.

[dbfan21]

well........guess its back to hearing

"I said no mayo on my cold cut combo, sandwich artist my a$$"

:rofl: funny stuff kal!!

[KipCorrington25]

I agree. Release him immediately. If he is found at some later date not guilty then consider resigning him.

[Northman]

Looks like Kircus just turned himself in to the police...

http://cbs4denver.com/breakingnewsalerts/local_story_141082530.html


I knew it, always a woman behind the anger. Ha!

[theAPAOps5]

Just curious but why on earth would someone how is not very high on the depth chart and who is going to get competition on ST as well be out until 3:30 Sunday Morning? Especially when PASSING CAMP starts today!!!!!

I'm sorry but if I know I have a big day at work or something will make or break my career I am not going to stay out until 3:30am in the morning the day before.

[Northman]

Just curious but why on earth would someone how is not very high on the depth chart and who is going to get competition on ST as well be out until 3:30 Sunday Morning? Especially when PASSING CAMP starts today!!!!!

I'm sorry but if I know I have a big day at work or something will make or break my career I am not going to stay out until 3:30am in the morning the day before.

Portis says it none of your business. Get it? ;)

[Kaylore]

If this is true they should cut him. It would send a message to the rest of the team.

[Hotrod]

Does Subway even hire convicted idiots....err I mean felons?

[DomCasual]

You just don't really hear about players getting in trouble at, say, 4:30 in the afternoon. These guys just never seem to learn that they're playing with fire when they're out in the wee hours of the morning.

[theAPAOps5]

Portis says it none of your business. Get it? ;)

Yeah I forgot Portis is the authority. I am sorry oh Wise Clinton Portis, controller of all that is bad and wrongly accused!

[55CrushEm]

If this is true they should cut him. It would send a message to the rest of the team.

Yes....if for no other reason. Gotta' keep the Ganga Gator Gang in line....:wiggle:

[footstepsfrom#27]

Dude, do you get some joy in digging up **** on some guy's family even when he had nothing to do with it? For all we know, Circus got into a fistfight with another guy at a party. Something to monitor. But dragging in a guy's family .... that's lame.
Eh....yeah, whatever. It comes up when you Google "Kircus" AND "arrested"...so yes...it took a lot of "digging" to find. And I already stated we should wait to find out what happened before assuming anything. Next time, for your benefit I'll just pretend I'm unaware of anything that pops up .

Sheesh...

[Requiem]

Cut the ****er and give Brandon #87.

[footstepsfrom#27]

You just don't really hear about players getting in trouble at, say, 4:30 in the afternoon. These guys just never seem to learn that they're playing with fire when they're out in the wee hours of the morning.
A-L-C-O-H-O-L...:~ohyah!:

He seems to have a quick temper. He was kicked out of practice with both the Lions and the Broncos for practice field fights, first with Bly then with Foxworth. Mix a short fuse with booze...you get bad results.

I disagree that they should cut him before anything is decided by the legal system. There might be some situations that would be appropriate in, but I don't think this is one of them.

[55CrushEm]

Cut the ****er and give Brandon #87.

I guess I'm still old school....and think of the low-80's as WR's....and the high-80's as TE's.......

Make Chad Mustard give #85 to Marshall.....then cut Kircus and give #87 to Mustard......

[bendog]

Eh....yeah, whatever. It comes up when you Google "Kircus" AND "arrested"...so yes...it took a lot of "digging" to find. And I already stated we should wait to find out what happened before assuming anything. Next time, for your benefit I'll just pretend I'm unaware of anything that pops up .

Sheesh...

you have a history of this ****e,

sheesh

[55CrushEm]

A-L-C-O-H-O-L...:~ohyah!:

He seems to have a quick temper. He was kicked out of practice with both the Lions and the Broncos for practice field fights, first with Bly then with Foxworth. Mix a short fuse with booze...you get bad results.

I disagree that they should cut him before anything is decided by the legal system. There might be some situations that would be appropriate in, but I don't think this is one of them.

Good point....I had forgotten about the schuffle with Foxy....and never heard about the one with Bly in Detroit.....

[watermock]

Dumbass. He was a freakin' GUEST asked to leave slightly before sunrise. He was likely hammered too.

After he gets sued he will only have to make 10 million subs to pay it off.

Damn...we were doing pretty good till this. Marshall's incident was a spat, not DV. Those are some questionable charges. I don't think false imprisonment applies either. Simple obstruction IMO, maybe threatening if he banged the window. This Kircus Circus is the real deal.

[Beantown Bronco]

In his defense, the report states that the punch happened outside the house at the end of the driveway. What was the host of the party doing out there to get punched in the first place? Why didn't he simply escort him to the door and go back to the party? Could there have been a good deal of drunken taunting courtesy of the host?

It's not like Kircus sucker-punched this guy in the middle of a crowd inside the house. The host most likely knew what he was getting himself into and did what he had to do to collect that winning lottery ticket.

[Hotrod]

In his defense, the report states that the punch happened outside the house at the end of the driveway. What was the host of the party doing out there to get punched in the first place? Why didn't he simply escort him to the door and go back to the party? Could there have been a good deal of drunken taunting courtesy of the host?

It's not like Kircus sucker-punched this guy in the middle of a crowd inside the house. The host most likely knew what he was getting himself into and did what he had to do to collect that winning lottery ticket.

Thats a pretty damn good point.

[Jana®]

Disappointing. I really liked Kircus. The post is reporting it too.

[footstepsfrom#27]

you have a history of this ****e,

sheesh
Dude...sorry if you're bothered by this but I haven't said a word to indict the guy. In fact I just stated (twice) we should let the court decide things before he's even suspended or removed from the team. The fact is, Kircus has a brother who comes up when you look for info on him.

Big deal.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Nobody knows what happened, so we should wait till we do before saying the guy should automatically be cut...basically the same consideration if he were working any other job.

[scorpio]

Shanahan says he won't be cut until the legal matter is cleared up but also that if he's guilty then he's gone for sure

[Rock Chalk]

People are way too quick to judge around here.

I figured thats what Shanny would do scorpio. Benefit of the doubt.

[400HZ]

http://i2.chargers.com/assets/177/32887_699w393h.jpg

eery!

[Bladerunner]

In his defense, the report states that the punch happened outside the house at the end of the driveway. What was the host of the party doing out there to get punched in the first place? Why didn't he simply escort him to the door and go back to the party? Could there have been a good deal of drunken taunting courtesy of the host?

It's not like Kircus sucker-punched this guy in the middle of a crowd inside the house. The host most likely knew what he was getting himself into and did what he had to do to collect that winning lottery ticket.

This is not a good point. You are talking about a homeowner, on his own property, attempting to escort an unwelcome guest off his property. There is nothing improper about that, and even if there were taunts and words thrown about, none of that is legitimate reason to break a guys face. Other than self-defense, there is no justification for breaking another person's face.

Your assertion that the victim was tryng to make money by getting his face bashed in is laughably stupid and horribly disgusting.

For those calling for Kircus's release, in order to comply with the CBA, the Broncos must release him for non-incident related reasons. These can be trumped up no doubt, but immediate release following an incident like this makes it difficult to defend. The team would be better served by letting him participate in some camp days, then release him. Performance can then be claimed as justification.

[cutthemdown]

kircus has been charged with assualt.

[Victor]

Is it possible that Kircus slipped on Griese's dog and accidentally broke bones in the homeowner's face?

See ya David. Say hello to Jared. The mini pizza' are pretty good but over-priced.

[Kaylore]

Is it possible that Kircus slipped on Griese's dog and accidentally broke bones in the homeowner's face?
:~ohyah!:

[broncosteven]

Goodell should lay down the law Crown his ass with a suspension just for being out that late the day before passing camp.

Dumb ass.

Jurkis should quit the team so he can go be the #1 WR in KFC.

[Northman]

In his defense, the report states that the punch happened outside the house at the end of the driveway. What was the host of the party doing out there to get punched in the first place? Why didn't he simply escort him to the door and go back to the party? Could there have been a good deal of drunken taunting courtesy of the host?

It's not like Kircus sucker-punched this guy in the middle of a crowd inside the house. The host most likely knew what he was getting himself into and did what he had to do to collect that winning lottery ticket.

My guess is ( and this is just hypothetical ) he was trying to get Kircus away from the girl because he worried for her safety. And as he was escorting Kircus away they must of been jawing at one another and then Kircus took his shot. I dont blame the guy for escorting David away but whatever he said or did must of made Kircus snap. Even if he didnt like David he should of pretended to be cordial and have David come back another time even if he didnt mean it. But if David was drinking you tell them what they like to hear.

[Popps]

In his defense, the report states that the punch happened outside the house at the end of the driveway.

Huh?

So, the host chased him down the driveway and hit his fist with his face as hard as he could? If I needed someone off of my property, I'd see them off, too. I wouldn't just assume that because they left the living room... they were going to oblige my request, particularly if they were unruly.

What was the host of the party doing out there to get punched in the first place?

By all reports, he asked him to leave. Maybe he did it in a rude fashion, but I've read NOTHING that puts blame on the guy with the caved in face... have you?

Could there have been a good deal of drunken taunting courtesy of the host?

Yea, see... that's not illegal, while crushing someone's face IS. Furthermore, if you're such a gigantic p***Y that you can't take someone calling you names, you shouldn't be a celebrity and you certainly shouldn't be playing football.

The host most likely knew what he was getting himself into and did what he had to do to collect that winning lottery ticket.

Really? That's not what the police said. Even Kircus hasn't made that claim. In fact, NO ONE has said anything of the sort. You privy to some knowledge that everyone involved doesn't have?

It never ceases me how people rush to the defense of these dumbf#ck, savages.... even when it's completely baseless, people will come up with a poo-poo story for our "heros."

[footstepsfrom#27]

Shanahan says he won't be cut until the legal matter is cleared up but also that if he's guilty then he's gone for sure
Short of Goodell's, the only opinion that counts.

[theAPAOps5]

My guess is ( and this is just hypothetical ) he was trying to get Kircus away from the girl because he worried for her safety. And as he was escorting Kircus away they must of been jawing at one another and then Kircus took his shot. I dont blame the guy for escorting David away but whatever he said or did must of made Kircus snap. Even if he didnt like David he should of pretended to be cordial and have David come back another time even if he didnt mean it. But if David was drinking you tell them what they like to hear.

How do you know he wasn't being cordial and Kircus just cold cocked his ass. We don't know the story but it was the dudes property he has a right to escort him off and send him on his way peacefully. Your in the NFL, you cause a scene and are asked to leave then do so and do so quietly. Even if some dude is a Jive talking Turkey. You are too high profile for that.

[Northman]

How do you know he wasn't being cordial and Kircus just cold cocked his ass. We don't know the story but it was the dudes property he has a right to escort him off and send him on his way peacefully. Your in the NFL, you cause a scene and are asked to leave then do so and do so quietly. Even if some dude is a Jive talking Turkey. You are too high profile for that.


I dont know if he was or wasnt. But seeing that David was getting riled up with a woman ( im just guessing maybe a girlfriend or someone he liked ) and then was asked to leave. I have no doubt that both the victim and Kircus were jawing at one another, thats why i stated that the guy should have tried to be as nice as possible so that David would just leave. Kill him with kindness is what i say. It doesnt always stop someone from assaulting you but most times than not there generally isnt any ruckus.

[TallyBronco]

We have no idea what the real facts of the case are. Apparently no one hear has considered the possibility that the alleged victim pressed charges precisely to tap into the Kircus bank account in a subsequent civil suit. Let's see what facts emerge.

[Popps]

We have no idea what the real facts of the case are.

Really? He's turned himself in... he's being charged and he busted up a guy's face.

What other facts are we missing, here? Are we supposed to be digging up some kind of "it's O.K." scenario to protect our beloved ball-player?

Apparently no one hear has considered the possibility that the alleged victim pressed charges precisely to tap into the Kircus bank account in a subsequent civil suit.

Well, you're wrong. A few people have already tried that pre-apology tactic.

Beyond that, what's Kircus make... a couple hundred thousand after taxes?
Not exactly like getting punched by Donald Trump now, is it.

Yea, I'll let the facts play out... and if David's well-being was in danger at the end of someone's driveway after a party, then he'll be justified. Right now, he looks like your typical NFL idiot crapping on civilized society.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Really? He's turned himself in... he's being charged and he busted up a guy's face.

What other facts are we missing, here?
Well here's a possible scenario...suppose the homeowner didn't just "escort" him from the property...but being loaded himself, tried to go after him physically, and the two of them get into a fight, from which he emerges the clear loser. Witnesses on the property are his friends and back his statements, causing cops to issue an arrest warrant for Kircus. I'm not saying it happened like this...just that we only know one side at this point.

Bottom line...we don't know anything yet, so why pretend we do?

[theAPAOps5]

I don't know multiple face fractures is statement enough for me. You don't break a guys face in SEVERAL faces with just one blow. That sounds like repeated blows to the face to me.

I know that I hade my jaw fractured, not broken, when I was trying to scalp a ticket to the CU vs CSU game about 6 years ago. Dude reached into his car to get what I thought was tickets and next thing I know I am being carried by my buddy down to Invesco after being knocked out cold. I didn't see what happened but my buddy had turned his back and turned in time to see me get nailed with brass knuckles and then the dude started standing over me and he came and nailed the dude and they took off in a car. Brass knuckles only fractured my jaw and knocked me out cold. Kircus supposedly broke a few bones in the guys face.

I won't write off that Kircus is totally guilty but damn he looks to be in some trouble.

[footstepsfrom#27]

http://cbs4denver.com/broncos/local_story_141191433.html

"There's different stories going on right now," Shanahan said. "Anyway, I can't get into it for obvious reasons, but let me hear both sides of it and let the due process take care of itself. Obviously, I heard one side and it was very strong from his side. I haven't heard the other side, and that's why I don't want to comment until I know all the facts."

Shanahan plans to let the unfolding legal process determine the response of him and the team.

"We're going to let the due process take care of itself," he said. "Like all situations, there's two sides to every story, and obviously if he didn't handle himself the right way, he won't be with us. But I'm going to let the due process take care of itself first, find out exactly what the situation is and respond after all the information is in."

[theAPAOps5]

I just read that over on Denver Post too Foot. Was going to comment on that. I am sure Kircus see things a whole different way. In the Denver Post article Shanny says if he is found guilty he will be released from the team. Hopefully for Kircus' sake if his side is legit he gets his due process.

[Popps]

Well, forgive me if I don't extend the NFL's thug-of-the-week.... umm... day... enough benefit of the doubt after he smashed up some guy's face. A lot of us fans are just a little tired of it. I work with P L E N T Y of people in the limelight who manage NOT to get in fights, run drugs, etc.

But, I'm sure poor David was a perfect gentlemen and had no choice but to cave this guy's face in at the end of his driveway instead of just leaving. When that comes out to be the case, I'll be here to apologize to him... no matter how much the EXCEPTION it may be.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Well, forgive me if I don't extend the NFL's thug-of-the-week.... umm... day... enough benefit of the doubt after he smashed up some guy's face. A lot of us fans are just a little tired of it. I work with P L E N T Y of people in the limelight who manage NOT to get in fights, run drugs, etc.

But, I'm sure poor David was a perfect gentlemen and had no choice but to cave this guy's face in at the end of his driveway instead of just leaving. When that comes out to be the case, I'll be here to apologize to him... no matter how much the EXCEPTION it may be.
I think I'll take Shanahan's approach instead of yours.

[Beantown Bronco]

Your assertion that the victim was tryng to make money by getting his face bashed in is laughably stupid and horribly disgusting.

So you are saying this never happens...what a joke. I wished I lived in that world.

We are the most litigious country by far in the world, with cases every day of people filing frivolous lawsuits in the hopes of winning the lottery. I'll bet you anything that, unless Kircus is completely cleared of all the charges, he will be in civil court or will have to settle with this guy for six figures.

[Beantown Bronco]

Huh?

So, the host chased him down the driveway and hit his fist with his face as hard as he could? If I needed someone off of my property, I'd see them off, too. I wouldn't just assume that because they left the living room... they were going to oblige my request, particularly if they were unruly.

C'mon now. You walk him out the door and that's it. If he refuses to go to his car, you call the cops and let them deal with it....unless you know there are illegal activities going on at the party. You DO NOT go all the way to his car and expect nothing to happen. You just don't. 10 times out of 10 there will be an incident if you take it that far. You have to let the individual cool off on their own. It's the only way to be sure that you have done everything you can to keep the incident from escalating.


Really? That's not what the police said. Even Kircus hasn't made that claim. In fact, NO ONE has said anything of the sort. You privy to some knowledge that everyone involved doesn't have?

I'm simply showing another side to the coin. Many were piling on, saying that it was 100% Kircus' fault. I just wanted to put another possible scenario out there....

It never ceases me how people rush to the defense of these dumbf#ck, savages.... even when it's completely baseless, people will come up with a poo-poo story for our "heros."

Nice to see you already made up your mind about the whole thing before you even hear the other side of the story....already calling him a dumb**** savage. Nice.

Do you really expect to hear that Kircus is 100% innocent when all we're hearing at this point is the account from the host and all the host's friends. Please. What do you think they're going to say?

A guy that goes to a party without any of his friends doesn't stand a chance if there is ever an incident. If he wins the fight, he'll get railroaded by law enforcement. If he loses the fight, he'll be in the hospital himself and all the witnesses will say he started it anyway.

And who here really considers Kircus their hero? Not me....not before or after this incident. So although that argument does hold water at times, it certainly doesn't here.

[BroncoInferno]

It never ceases me how people rush to the defense of these dumbf#ck, savages

It never ceases to amaze me how people assume guilt without letting due process take its course.

[Old Dude]

Well, it sounds like the mistaken ID thing is out, and Kircus will raise self-defense. I don't know enough about the facts to make any judgment about it, but, just on the surface of things, it sounds like it will be a tough row to hoe. Drinking + being asked to leave the other guy's property + additional witnesses who have ID'd him and might support the homeowner's version + the fact that the homeowner got beat up pretty badly.

Good luck with that.

Offhand, I'd say the prospects have improved for Hixon, Stokely, Morgan, Terrell & Clark.

[KipCorrington25]

Can we assume Kircus was **** housed if he's starting trouble at some random party at 4am? So after smashing the guy's face in he drives off while **** faced...

There really is no way to spin this to make him appear the victim...

[Beantown Bronco]

Can we assume Kircus was **** housed if he's starting trouble at some random party at 4am? So after smashing the guy's face in he drives off while **** faced...

There really is no way to spin this to make him appear the victim...

Judging by how many fights this guy got into during team practices, he certainly wasn't one to need liquor to let his anger get out of control. Normally one could safely assume a 4AM fight was the result of too much booze, but with this guy you never know.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Well, it sounds like the mistaken ID thing is out, and Kircus will raise self-defense. I don't know enough about the facts to make any judgment about it, but, just on the surface of things, it sounds like it will be a tough row to hoe. Drinking + being asked to leave the other guy's property + additional witnesses who have ID'd him and might support the homeowner's version + the fact that the homeowner got beat up pretty badly.

Good luck with that.

Offhand, I'd say the prospects have improved for Hixon, Stokely, Morgan, Terrell & Clark.Restraining orders have been issued against Kircus also. Judges don't do that unless the victim has shown good cause. Kircus has also been ordered to not drink any alcohol.

He screwed up bigtime!

[Popps]

It never ceases to amaze me how people assume guilt without letting due process take its course.

Well, he's crushed in a guy's face. He's guilty of that. Fair enough?

IN MY OPINION, he's also guilty of being an idiot... because anyone who's NOT an idiot can avoid this stuff. Like I said, I personally know people of higher profile than freakin' David Kircuss that manage to avoid trouble, and handle themselves gracefully.

He assaulted someone and was arrested for it. I've heard NOTHING about self-defense at this stage, and would have a hard time with it if I do hear it.

Who breaks someone's face IN THREE PLACES at the end of a driveway in "self defense?"

Sure, I'll give him due process. In the meanwhile, he's an idiot for being in this situation and my O P I N I O N is that he's guilty, just like most of these NFL idiots are guilty.

[U GOT JACKED UP]

Cut the scrub

[Old Dude]

Restraining orders have been issued against Kircus also. Judges don't do that unless the victim has shown good cause. Kircus has also been ordered to not drink any alcohol.

He screwed up bigtime!

I agree with you that he's in big trouble, but I'm not sure I'd put too much weight on the judge's orders. Kircus apparently bonded out on the assault charge. I would imagine that it would be a pretty routine condition of most bonds that the guy abstain from alcohol, especially if he has a recent DUI and if there is any indication (not the same thing as "proof") that the incident was alcohol-related.

I'd also imagine that restraining orders are pretty common whenever one person is charged with hurting another - - especially when the accused guy doesn't have any business being around the other person. I'm not sure what the legal definition of "good cause" is, but I think it means something like a "good reason." I think it's mostly a "better safe than sorry" sort of standard.

[Popps]

So you are saying this never happens...what a joke. .

Umm... no. I never said that. So, no.

All cleared up?

We are the most litigious country by far in the world, with cases every day of people filing frivolous lawsuits in the hopes of winning the lottery.

Well, I realize that it's fun to repeat things that you've heard. People love to spout the "we're a litigious country" mantra. People hear other people say it, and repeat it like it's accepted fact. But, it's the internet... that's what people do.

Meanwhile, talk to someone who's worked inside the court system for several decades... and you might get a different insight. (And no, I'm not talking about lawyers.)

The problem is, for every "hot coffee in the lap at McDonalds" story, there are dozens of non-newsworthy stories of lawsuits that are just and proper.
The legal system is the last line of defense people have against fraud, corruption and in the end... ends up protecting the little guy as much as it does the corporation.

Is it abused? Certainly... most things are. Do we live in a "litigious society wrought with frivolous lawsuits?" Not at all. Those are just the ones you hear about the most.

You don't hear about the guy who busted his knee on the job because his workplace was unsafe and couldn't work the rest of his life. You don't hear about the woman who's company didn't properly handle her 401K and she lost a huge portion of her retirement. You don't hear about the single mom who had to sue her landlord to get her security deposit back, which she was due.

Nope, you don't hear about the overwhelming amount of (in principle) legitimate lawsuits that allow people to protect themselves. Those aren't sexy. Those don't piss off the average Joe. But, if some dumbass sues Crispy Creme because doughnuts made him fat.... you can't bet it'll be front page news, and average Joe will run around in the street repeating what he's heard other people repeat..... "SEE, WE LIVE IN A LITIGIOUS SOCIETY!!!"

It's one of the best examples of things people just repeat without having done any real thought or research into the issue.

Meanwhile, let someone screw them over... and they'll be using the legal system in their favor before you can blink.

[Old Dude]

Cut the scrub

Shanahan has (initially) taken sort of a wait and see approach, which is only fair. But what I wonder about is this. If this case goes to trial, it could take months before it's resolved from a legal standpoint. It could drag out for a whole year.

So at what point does Shanahan make his decision?

Even if Kircus turns out to be completely innocent, vindicated, justified, etc., etc. this has to be one heck of a cloud over his head.

If Kircus was a superstar, an integral part of the team, or even a starter, I could see some coaches dragging their feet on the decision. But this guy is marginal and was no lock to make the team in the first place.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I agree with you that he's in big trouble, but I'm not sure I'd put too much weight on the judge's orders. Kircus apparently bonded out on the assault charge. I would imagine that it would be a pretty routine condition of most bonds that the guy abstain from alcohol, especially if he has a recent DUI and if there is any indication (not the same thing as "proof") that the incident was alcohol-related.

I'd also imagine that restraining orders are pretty common whenever one person is charged with hurting another - - especially when the accused guy doesn't have any business being around the other person. I'm not sure what the legal definition of "good cause" is, but I think it means something like a "good reason." I think it's mostly a "better safe than sorry" sort of standard.It may be different now but I had to get one a long time ago against my ex's boyfriend to stay away from my kids and the hearing lasted almost an hour with testimony from various people. Kircus may not have shown up and or the judge may have issued it without him having been there.

[Old Dude]

It may be different now but I had to get one a long time ago against my ex's boyfriend to stay away from my kids and the hearing lasted almost an hour with testimony from various people. Kircus may not have shown up and or the judge may have issued it without him having been there.

Might be different here, though, because (a) Kircus was actually arrested and charged with a crime, and (b) he probably had no reason whatsoever to contest it. I mean, seriously, why would he want to hang out with the guy at this point?

[Beantown Bronco]

It's one of the best examples of things people just repeat without having done any real thought or research into the issue.


Wrong on that count at least. Criminal Justice major and I've worked for law firms for the last 8 years.

All I said was "We are the most litigious country by far in the world, with cases every day of people filing frivolous lawsuits in the hopes of winning the lottery." Which part of this statement is not true? Fact: we do live in the most litigious society in the world and every day there are some frivolous lawsuits filed.

I'm not saying all cases are frivolous....I'm just saying a lot of them are. 99% of cases don't even make the headlines one way or the other, and most don't involve the types of cases you are even discussing, so I don't know how you can throw out the statements you are making about "for every ___ case there are ____ opposite cases."

My definition of frivolous includes any case brought by someone who knows they don't have a real case, but knows that the defendant doesn't want to spend $1,000s per hour on their attorney fees to win in court. They simply settle because it's cheaper for them to do so. Why do you think that even in "at will" states, you almost have to commit a felony to get fired? Employers don't want to risk getting sued.

And although the majority of suits against doctors may not be frivolous, the settlement amounts are becoming crippling to the industry. Caps are coming into play and that will help, but more needs to be done here.

[footstepsfrom#27]

It may be different now but I had to get one a long time ago against my ex's boyfriend to stay away from my kids and the hearing lasted almost an hour with testimony from various people. Kircus may not have shown up and or the judge may have issued it without him having been there.
That sounds like a protective order, which is only issued in the case of evidence of domestic violence. Restraining orders are easy to get...and violating one does not draw much of a penalty. Violating a protective order on the other hand is a felony punishable by a hefty fine and jail time. Last I checked...it was $5000 and a maximum of 5 years in jail here in Texas.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Might be different here, though, because (a) Kircus was actually arrested and charged with a crime, and (b) he probably had no reason whatsoever to contest it. I mean, seriously, why would he want to hang out with the guy at this point?That makes sense. The idiot I got mine against told the judge he needed to drive the road by our house to get to his (the order was not to come within 1000 ft of the property) house.

[-Slap-]

If this is true they should cut him. It would send a message to the rest of the team.

The message would be scrubs beware. Stars continue to act however you please.

[Old Dude]

That sounds like a protective order, which is only issued in the case of evidence of domestic violence. Restraining orders are easy to get...and violating one does not draw much of a penalty. Violating a protective order on the other hand is a felony punishable by a hefty fine and jail time. Last I checked...it was $5000 and a maximum of 5 years in jail here in Texas.


I get easily confused about all this stuff, but I'm pretty sure you can get in big trouble for violating a restraining order as well.

[-Slap-]

In his defense, the report states that the punch happened outside the house at the end of the driveway. What was the host of the party doing out there to get punched in the first place? Why didn't he simply escort him to the door and go back to the party? Could there have been a good deal of drunken taunting courtesy of the host?

It's not like Kircus sucker-punched this guy in the middle of a crowd inside the house. The host most likely knew what he was getting himself into and did what he had to do to collect that winning lottery ticket.

I was waiting for this post. It would have happened in the first three responses if Kircus were a starter.

[footstepsfrom#27]

I get easily confused about all this stuff, but I'm pretty sure you can get in big trouble for violating a restraining order as well.
I can check to see what it is now, but here at least...at least in 2002...it was a $500 fine...maybe 30 days in jail, but I may be wrong on the jail time because I think it was just a fine. It definitely was not a felony...at least at that time it wasn't. Perhaps it's different now. Colorado law may be entirely different however.

[theAPAOps5]

I get easily confused about all this stuff, but I'm pretty sure you can get in big trouble for violating a restraining order as well.

No he is right thats the biggest complaint about Restraining Orders they are hard to enforce and rarely are they done the way they were designed. Protective orders are more defined and thus easier to enforce.

The biggest case I can remember is the Castle Rock guy who continually would ignore his wives restraining order and the police kept ignoring it or by the time they got there he had left. Then the sick dude kidnaps the kids and kills them and himself in front of the police station. That case is being used as an example on why they need to stiffen Restraining Orders.

[broncosteven]

The message would be scrubs beware. Stars continue to act however you please.

Paris Hilton had her time cut in 1/2.

Maybe if we start a website for Jurkis, photoshop his face in some porns, and write up our own petition for this to be thrown out he may get the star treatment.

That said I am happy anyone is held accountable for their actions, unless they have been in porno's in which case they should not be held accountable for anything.

[Flex Gunmetal]

Hmm. One of my good buddies sister is dating John Michael Liles, who apparently rolls with Kircus. My buddy has been out with him and said he seemed like a great guy, but booze has a tendency of turning great guys into jackasses.

[Popps]

All I said was "We are the most litigious country by far in the world, with cases every day of people filing frivolous lawsuits in the hopes of winning the lottery." Which part of this statement is not true? .

Just talked to a 30 year court vet who estimated that in her career of over 700 cases (mostly in civil) .... she estimated that around 2% or less were frivolous.

Again, this isn't a lawyer talking, either. In other words, she's got no vested interest, either way. She works on cases, frivolous or not.

This falls in line with what I hear from most people who've worked in the legal system.


Point being, no one said that there weren't frivolous lawsuits. But, your rush to the conclusion that some guy got his face crushed in to get a few bucks out of Kircus because of our "frivolously litigious" society holds no water on any front.

[telluride]

There is no need to "let the legal process play out." Kircus was out boozing, at 4:00 a.m., on the Sunday before throwing camp begins. He was a no show that Monday morning. He needs to be cut. Period. Poor judgement, poor decision making. I don't care if he's legally in the right or in the wrong. As an employee he screwed up, and should be fired.

If Shanny doesn't take action on this immediately, it will be disappointing.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Restraining orders have been issued against Kircus also. Judges don't do that unless the victim has shown good cause. Kircus has also been ordered to not drink any alcohol.

He screwed up bigtime!

A protection order of some type is standard in Colorado in assault cases unless the victim doesn't want it. Just going off of ESPN's wire story, the conditions imposed on Kircus sound like the standard conditions that anyone else charged with assault is going to get. I'm not sure if it's been pointed out in this thread, but this is a felony charge.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

A protection order of some type is standard in Colorado in assault cases unless the victim doesn't want it. Just going off of ESPN's wire story, the conditions imposed on Kircus sound like the standard conditions that anyone else charged with assault is going to get. I'm not sure if it's been pointed out in this thread, but this is a felony charge.I was just going by the terminology used in the Post story. Retraining orders, like I said, may mean something different than when I had to get mine.

A temporary restraining order was issued against Kircus, forbidding him to have any contact with the man he is accused of assaulting. He also is prohibited from drinking alcohol.

[orange 4 life]

ive heard all i need to hear.
cut him loose.

[orange 4 life]

doesnt matter if theyre white, black, or purple, and it doesnt matter what team they play for.
guys like vick and kircus need to get punished for their actions.

[Popps]

doesnt matter if theyre white, black, or purple, and it doesnt matter what team they play for.
guys like vick and kircus need to get punished for their actions.

This thread sort of kills the "it's about race" thing for the folks who have been pushing that poop.

Fans are tired of seeing the game they love **** on by these thugs.

[-Slap-]

By the way, a little word of advice to all you Johnny Badass types out there. There is zero excuse for busting someone's face open so badly he has to have immediate reconstructive surgery. Self defense is not an option, because defending yourself does not extend to teaching the other guy a lesson. Someone can punch you first, totally unprovoked, but it doesn't give you the right to punch him back as many times as you like.

[Garcia Bronco]

By the way, a little word of advice to all you Johnny Badass types out there. There is zero excuse for busting someone's face open so badly he has to have immediate reconstructive surgery. Self defense is not an option, because defending yourself does not extend to teaching the other guy a lesson. Someone can punch you first, totally unprovoked, but it doesn't give you the right to punch him back as many times as you like.

I think that's all subjective.

[bendog]

By the way, a little word of advice to all you Johnny Badass types out there. There is zero excuse for busting someone's face open so badly he has to have immediate reconstructive surgery. Self defense is not an option, because defending yourself does not extend to teaching the other guy a lesson. Someone can punch you first, totally unprovoked, but it doesn't give you the right to punch him back as many times as you like.

yep. I've had an open mind, and still have, but this was not a good sign. I suppose it's still possible that Circus did something like bust the guy's nose with one or two shots, and then took him out with a shot to an eye socket; and had some kind of provication making this somewhat understandable. But it looks more like he put a whoopin on a guy who wasn't in shape to protect himself. It's like Moss. It's one thing to get into a fight, but it's another thing to do damage to someone after they've stopped either being a threat or able to cover up.

[Garcia Bronco]

yep. I've had an open mind, and still have, but this was not a good sign. I suppose it's still possible that Circus did something like bust the guy's nose with one or two shots, and then took him out with a shot to an eye socket; and had some kind of provication making this somewhat understandable. But it looks more like he put a whoopin on a guy who wasn't in shape to protect himself. It's like Moss. It's one thing to get into a fight, but it's another thing to do damage to someone after they've stopped either being a threat or able to cover up.

For me....if the guy provoked him...he earned what he got, but who knows what really happened.

[bendog]

For me....if the guy provoked him...he earned what he got, but who knows what really happened.

Naw. I'm assuming a female guest was involved too, or at least I thought I'd read that. And, the altercation came at the end of the driveway or whatever, so I think it's pretty clear that words were exchanged. The guy might have deserved a busted nose or black eye. We've all seen athletes get harrassed by drunk a-holes.

But when you get to the level of multiple facial fractures, that's a whoopin. That's trying to send a message via doing permanent harm that the "harmee" cannot respond to. No excuse, ever, for that.

But, I'm still not positive that that occurred. It's possible to bust a face up with three-four punches. But, you can tell when a guy's nose or eye socket's so busted that they'll need surgery. Unless the guy's so hopped up he's crazy, he'll be going down or backing off.

[WoodMan]

Bottom line is the Bronco's organization doesn't need or want to put up with this crap. It appears he assaulted some guy and was probably under the influence when he did. He will be released by Denver in due time. Another gifted athlete who has screwed up his opportunity to follow his dream. The really sad thing is it happened over booze and a woman. Typically a bad combination, when your ego allows you to believe that you are some kind of prima dona.

[orange 4 life]

By the way, a little word of advice to all you Johnny Badass types out there. There is zero excuse for busting someone's face open so badly he has to have immediate reconstructive surgery. Self defense is not an option, because defending yourself does not extend to teaching the other guy a lesson. Someone can punch you first, totally unprovoked, but it doesn't give you the right to punch him back as many times as you like.

absolutely.
as a kid, i was in rough neighborhoods (venice and watts) and my dad was a track and b-ball coach. obviously he saw alot of violence, and that probably caused him to talk to me about fighting more than most parents would, but still, the basic principles are VERY simple.

1) avoid a fight whenever possible. a "real man" doesnt need to fight to prove anything, and
2) if you HAVE to fight to defend yourself or your family/friends, then you do ONLY what you must to stop the person attacking you. you dont ever hit or kick a man once he's down and out.

should be pretty simple stuff, but unfortunately for many its not.

[Garcia Bronco]

Naw. I'm assuming a female guest was involved too, or at least I thought I'd read that. And, the altercation came at the end of the driveway or whatever, so I think it's pretty clear that words were exchanged. The guy might have deserved a busted nose or black eye. We've all seen athletes get harrassed by drunk a-holes.

But when you get to the level of multiple facial fractures, that's a whoopin. That's trying to send a message via doing permanent harm that the "harmee" cannot respond to. No excuse, ever, for that.

But, I'm still not positive that that occurred. It's possible to bust a face up with three-four punches. But, you can tell when a guy's nose or eye socket's so busted that they'll need surgery. Unless the guy's so hopped up he's crazy, he'll be going down or backing off.

Or the injuries can be blown out of proportion for a civil case...or impact with the ground could have caused those injuries as well. Either way...if the gent was provoking Kircus..then he shouldn't have been suprised when he got his face caved in....Kircus should have just walked away, but I doubt Kircus just started hammering the guy for no reason at all.

[orange 4 life]

For me....if the guy provoked him...he earned what he got, but who knows what really happened.

you think its okay to cave in a guys face (THREE separate breaks to the facial bones) because he talks some crap?

some deadhead you are. :giggle:

[-Slap-]

I think that's all subjective.

You've made that plain. In your troglodytic internet persona, you've already stated that might makes right and God help any man, woman or child who dares say anything to provoke a well deserved beat down. With all your comments to that effect, I figure you must have your bail bondsman programmed in as one of your five favorites.

[orange 4 life]

Or the injuries can be blown out of proportion for a civil case...or impact with the ground could have caused those injuries as well. Either way...if the gent was provoking Kircus..then he shouldn't have been suprised when he got his face caved in....Kircus should have just walked away, but I doubt Kircus just started hammering the guy for no reason at all.

thats could all be true, but there's still no reason to REPEATEDLY beat someone.
if the injuries are exaggerated, then your point has some validity (though you said yourself he still shouldve walked away), but if the guy needs surgery i doubt its being exaggerated.

[Garcia Bronco]

you think its okay to cave in a guys face (THREE separate breaks to the facial bones) because he talks some crap?

some deadhead you are. :giggle:

"He taught me all I know...taught me so well I grab that gold and left his dead ass by the side of the road"

"Dehlia lit his cigarette and she shot him in the balls"

"32 teeth in a jawbone, Alabama trying for none,
Before I have to hit him, I hope he's got the sense to run."

"My brother Esau killed the hunter, back in 1969,
Before the killing was done his inheritance was mine."

"Down to the jewelry store packin' a gun,
Says, "Wrap it up I think I'll take this one."
"A thousand dollars please," the jewelry man said,
Dupree said, "I'll pay this one off to you in lead."

"Lulu, my Lulu come and open the door.
Before I have to walk in with my old 'forty-four'."

"Jack Straw from Wichita cut his buddy down,
And dug for him a shallow grave and laid his body down."

shall I go on :)

[Garcia Bronco]

You've made that plain. In your troglodytic internet persona, you've already stated that might makes right and God help any man, woman or child who dares say anything to provoke a well deserved beat down. With all your comments to that effect, I figure you must have your bail bondsman programmed in as one of your five favorites.

I am not a t-mobile customer

[bendog]

Bottom line is the Bronco's organization doesn't need or want to put up with this crap. It appears he assaulted some guy and was probably under the influence when he did. He will be released by Denver in due time. Another gifted athlete who has screwed up his opportunity to follow his dream. The really sad thing is it happened over booze and a woman. Typically a bad combination, when your ego allows you to believe that you are some kind of prima dona.

I need booze to survive women. And with that, I'm off to cook burgers with andoullie sausage ... with alcohol.

[-Slap-]

I need booze to survive women. And with that, I'm off to cook burgers with andoullie sausage ... with alcohol.

Andoullie sausage...
OOOOOOO
oooooooo
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/2313/images12thumbnailxw1.jpg

[Old Dude]

you think its okay to cave in a guys face (THREE separate breaks to the facial bones) because he talks some crap?



Actually, that could be done with a single punch, depending on where it lands.

[Garcia Bronco]

thats could all be true, but there's still no reason to REPEATEDLY beat someone.
if the injuries are exaggerated, then your point has some validity (though you said yourself he still shouldve walked away), but if the guy needs surgery i doubt its being exaggerated.

We just don't know...Kircus could have cracked him once and the guy ate asphault.

[Smiling Assassin27]

Actually, that could be done with a single punch, depending on where it lands.


You are correct, sir...


Signed,

Rudy Tomjanovich

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Actually, that could be done with a single punch, depending on where it lands.I'm thinking you don't arrest a guy and charge them with a felony for punching a guy once defending yourself.

[Old Dude]

I'm thinking you don't arrest a guy and charge them with a felony for punching a guy once defending yourself.

One punch is all it takes. Second degree assault requires only a "serious bodily injury" which is defined in Colorado as including any fracture at all.

Of course, the big question is whether it was self defense. The alleged victim says it wasn't. Unless there's overwhelming evidence to the contrary, that's all the probable cause that's needed for an arrest right there.

The cop's point of view in cases like this? Even if the fight was provoked, the loser goes to hospital; winner goes to jail. Let a jury sort it out later.

[ak1971]

There is no need to "let the legal process play out." Kircus was out boozing, at 4:00 a.m., on the Sunday before throwing camp begins. He was a no show that Monday morning. He needs to be cut. Period. Poor judgement, poor decision making. I don't care if he's legally in the right or in the wrong. As an employee he screwed up, and should be fired.

If Shanny doesn't take action on this immediately, it will be disappointing.

At least Araphoe County Jail is right next to the training facility at Dove Valley, so he can walk for work release.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

One punch is all it takes. Second degree assault requires only a "serious bodily injury" which is defined in Colorado as including any fracture at all.

Of course, the big question is whether it was self defense. The alleged victim says it wasn't. Unless there's overwhelming evidence to the contrary, that's all the probable cause that's needed for an arrest right there.

The cop's point of view in cases like this? Even if the fight was provoked, the loser goes to hospital; winner goes to jail. Let a jury sort it out later.That's my point. I have big doubts about any "self defense" claims here. Especially with the police interviewing multiple witnesses.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

At least Araphoe County Jail is right next to the training facility at Dove Valley, so he can walk for work release.

Wonder how the bracelet on his ankle would affect his speed?

[Popps]

I'm thinking you don't arrest a guy and charge them with a felony for punching a guy once defending yourself.

Yea, but see.... the dude was gearing up for a civil suit! So, he got up off of the ground and forced his face into Kircus' fist over and over... and what could poor David do? He was just acting in self defense.

I mean, some people might push someone to the ground... hit them once or, god forbid... escape the situation all together.

But, David apparently needed to REALLY defend himself... ya know? Crushing up this guy's face beyond recognition to the point it requires immediate reconstruction.... that kind of self defense.

Have I mentioned there might be a civil suit? There might.

These poor athletes.

Speaking of which, where's our buddy Jason to defend Kircus from the "pile-on." Wow... odd that Jason wouldn't be defending David. I wonder why?

Hmmmm.

[Popps]

Oh, and in all seriousness... I hope he gets hit with a civil suit. I hope he gets his ass cleaned out.

Unless this is PROVEN to be reasonable self-defnese, he deserves to get taken to the cleaners.

[watermock]

NBD...ask Big Ben.

[Popps]

Kircus threw a punch, investigators say, then left a warning for the man with the broken face.
"You don't know what I'm capable of," the backup wide receiver told Jeffrey Krieger, according to a report by an Arapahoe County sheriff's deputy.



Poor, persecuted David.

[Popps]

On a sadder note, how'd you like to tell your friends you got your ass beat by this dude...

http://blog.mlive.com/highlightreel/medium_070522_broncos_kircus_police_mug.jpg

He looks like he's right off the set of Extreme Home Makeover or something.

[Popps]

http://blog.mlive.com/highlightreel/medium_070522_broncos_kircus_police_mug.jpg
http://www.maomag.com/images/events/events.2/ev2.18.robert.verdi.jpg

[Old Dude]

That's my point. I have big doubts about any "self defense" claims here. Especially with the police interviewing multiple witnesses.

I agree with you on that. Plus, as I said, the alcohol, the fact that he was asked by the owner to leave, the location, the damage, yada, yada. He's in some trouble fer sure.

[fdf]

Restraining orders have been issued against Kircus also. Judges don't do that unless the victim has shown good cause. Kircus has also been ordered to not drink any alcohol.

He screwed up bigtime!

True he screwed up. But don't read anything into restraining orders. They are issued ex parte on evidence from one side also. I knew a little tiny woman--90 lb , 60 years old and 5' tall who couldn't harm a fly. She was in a bad relationship with a nasty, angry, big, younger man who was just this side of abuse with her. She asked him to leave her house. Next thing she knew, he had gotten a restraining order against her, claiming she had beaten him up. It was laughable if you knew the people. But a judge issued it.

[ZachKC]

Jeez Kircus...Reeeelllaaaxxxx.

[Pendejo]

Jeez Kircus...Reeeelllaaaxxxx.

No kidding. There's absolutely no reason to go all Lawrence Tynes on somebody.

[Broncoman13]

absolutely.
as a kid, i was in rough neighborhoods (venice and watts) and my dad was a track and b-ball coach. obviously he saw alot of violence, and that probably caused him to talk to me about fighting more than most parents would, but still, the basic principles are VERY simple.

1) avoid a fight whenever possible. a "real man" doesnt need to fight to prove anything, and
2) if you HAVE to fight to defend yourself or your family/friends, then you do ONLY what you must to stop the person attacking you. you dont ever hit or kick a man once he's down and out.

should be pretty simple stuff, but unfortunately for many its not.


See, I didn't grow up in a tough neighborhood until I was a bit older. But, my step-father always taught me that if you have no options (your rule #1) you fight to hurt permamently. You fight to disable. You use whatever is available to you, whether it's a stick or a rock. Why? B/c if you don't you end up like the dude that was beat down by Kircus. I've been in fights and had my eyes nearly gouged out. Scratched corneas and both ears split at the base of my skull.

A friend of mine was stabbed outside an old club in Houston called Sharkdance. Flight for life was sent for him. When flight for life arrived then ended up taking the guy that stabbed him by air. A friend of ours (Jagr) nearly killed him with one punch or whatever that karate crap was. Point being, that a punch or single blow can do a lot of damage. Kircus is an elite athlete. I imagine he's probably capable of some pretty serious stuff.

[Broncoman13]

You've made that plain. In your troglodytic internet persona, you've already stated that might makes right and God help any man, woman or child who dares say anything to provoke a well deserved beat down. With all your comments to that effect, I figure you must have your bail bondsman programmed in as one of your five favorites.


Yes, I'm sure GB's bondsman is in his "Circle"! :D

[Broncoman13]

I'm thinking you don't arrest a guy and charge them with a felony for punching a guy once defending yourself.


Sure you do. Especially if you have 10 of your buddies say that the guy attacked you for no reason. Kircus made a big mistake here. He was at someone else's house and happened to get into with the home owner. I'm willing to bet that the witnesses are friends of the homeowner and could care less about Kircus.

As for the injuries. One punch to the nose/cheek can easily break 3-4 bones in the face. The bones in the sinus areas are fairly thin. A while back my wife was watching a surgery show and facial reconstructions were a large part of it. They were discussing the orbital bones and how easy the were to break.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Well I'm glad the sages in here have it all figured out. Now you can go tell that idiot Shanahan since he decided to wuss out and wait on the facts rather than cut this monster. I guess the whole point about moving carefully and gleaning all the available information that people lapped up for the Marcus Thomas story didn't quite make it this far.

[Florida_Bronco]

A friend of mine was stabbed outside an old club in Houston called Sharkdance. Flight for life was sent for him. When flight for life arrived then ended up taking the guy that stabbed him by air. A friend of ours (Jagr) nearly killed him with one punch or whatever that karate crap was. Point being, that a punch or single blow can do a lot of damage. Kircus is an elite athlete. I imagine he's probably capable of some pretty serious stuff.

A good solid punch to the temple can kill if you are lucky...or unlucky...whichever term you prefer.

[Broncoman13]

A good solid punch to the temple can kill if you are lucky...or unlucky...whichever term you prefer.

Yeah, he didn't hit him near the temple. He hit him in the throat and the dude was crying up blood. It was pretty weird.

Man, thinking back to some of the things I've seen... makes me wonder how I ever made it to 30! CRAZY. I got kicked out of a High School in Houston b/c I witnessed a homicide. The police went looking for me at an old address. We had moved out of the district. When they came to the school and told them my address wasn't right, the school wanted to know where I lived. Out of district...OUTPROCESSED! That was a shiatty day!

[Florida_Bronco]

Yeah, he didn't hit him near the temple. He hit him in the throat and the dude was crying up blood. It was pretty weird.

Man, thinking back to some of the things I've seen... makes me wonder how I ever made it to 30! CRAZY. I got kicked out of a High School in Houston b/c I witnessed a homicide. The police went looking for me at an old address. We had moved out of the district. When they came to the school and told them my address wasn't right, the school wanted to know where I lived. Out of district...OUTPROCESSED! That was a shiatty day!

Oh yeah, strikes to the throat can do some serious damage.

In junior high I got kicked out of school for 3 days for beating some kid up. This kid was in a group home and decided he didn't like me for some reason and one day he came up behind me while I was taking a leak at a urinal and hit me in the back of the head and ran off. Well 2 days later I caught him at the end of the hill going to his bus and laid waste to him in front of the entire school.

Well of course they suspended us both for 3 days, but the beauty of the situation was that he was about 3 weeks from being released from the group home, and because of that fight he had to stay for another 3 months. :~ohyah!:

After we came back to school though, he came up and apologized and shook my hand, so I kinda had some respect for him after that.

[wabbit]

Just the manner in which Shanahan turned away from facing the camera & said that 'if true', Kikus was (essentially) good as gone, tells you this kid just pissed away a great opportunity, if not his NFL career...and the team needed him.

Damn shame...he seemed to have terrific timing with Cutler.

[Florida_Bronco]

Just the manner in which Shanahan turned away from facing the camera & said that 'if true', Kikus was (essentially) good as gone, tells you this kid just pissed away a great opportunity, if not his NFL career...and the team needed him.

Damn shame...he seemed to have terrific timing with Cutler.

I hope that if it is true that Kircus steps up and acts like a man about it, both as far as the incident itself and the league is concerned.

He might be wise to go to shanny and say "Hey Mike, I fouled up and I'm sorry"

[broncocalijohn]

If he is gone, bring in Keyshawn. Some said we are too full at WR. There might be an opening. On a sadder note, someone in Detroit area will be losing his subway job.

[fdf]

Kircus is an elite athlete. I imagine he's probably capable of some pretty serious stuff.

I used to play basketball with a pretty decent group of guys in graduate school. All of us had played HS or college ball and the game was pretty good. Then a guy joined us who had been a tight end with New England (second or third stringer) and got himself cut with a bad knee after only a season or two.

He wasn't particularly tall. Nor had he played colleg bball. But he was in an entirely different league than the rest of us in body control, coordination, everything. Completely different. He was playing a different game than we were. It's like his body knew what to do and how to do it before he even thought about it. It was fun to watch him but not much fun to play him on D. In fact, I broke my wrist trying to defend him. LOL.

Would hate to think what he could do in a fight. It would have been a complete mismatch against any regular person. Even if he'd never punched a person before.

[Pendejo]

Yes, I'm sure GB's bondsman is in his "Circle"! :D

Perhaps not...but he almost certainly has on speed dial...someone at the ready with a hot water bottle mixed with water and vinegar. Any time he needs to douche...his people are on point.

[fontaine]

If he is gone, bring in Keyshawn. Some said we are too full at WR. There might be an opening. On a sadder note, someone in Detroit area will be losing his subway job.

Keyshawn is an a$$hole.

No thanks.

[-Slap-]

I used to play basketball with a pretty decent group of guys in graduate school. All of us had played HS or college ball and the game was pretty good. Then a guy joined us who had been a tight end with New England (second or third stringer) and got himself cut with a bad knee after only a season or two.

He wasn't particularly tall. Nor had he played colleg bball. But he was in an entirely different league than the rest of us in body control, coordination, everything. Completely different. He was playing a different game than we were. It's like his body knew what to do and how to do it before he even thought about it. It was fun to watch him but not much fun to play him on D. In fact, I broke my wrist trying to defend him. LOL.

Would hate to think what he could do in a fight. It would have been a complete mismatch against any regular person. Even if he'd never punched a person before.

This is a good point. David Kircus might look like a lot more like a sandwich maker than a football player, but you don't get into the NFL unless you're an extraordinary athlete.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Keyshawn is an a$$hole.

No thanks.Bigger one than Kircus?

[ZONA]

This guy is history so let's end the talk about him right now. Mike has already said if he is found guilty, he's outta here. Well, this is a no brainer. There were plenty of witnesses that he was asked to leave and then the man went to the hospital with a broken face. Bye Bye Kirkus, hope you have fun making sandwhiches again. You're one of the biggest tards of the year. You knew you were a long shot to earn another spot and now you just made the coaching staff's job of cutting you even easier. Maybe you can tell all your sandchich customer's how tough you are, but also how stupid you are. What a frickin clown.

[Beantown Bronco]

This guy is history so let's end the talk about him right now. Mike has already said if he is found guilty, he's outta here. Well, this is a no brainer. There were plenty of witnesses that he was asked to leave and then the man went to the hospital with a broken face. Bye Bye Kirkus, hope you have fun making sandwhiches again. You're one of the biggest tards of the year. You knew you were a long shot to earn another spot and now you just made the coaching staff's job of cutting you even easier. Maybe you can tell all your sandchich customer's how tough you are, but also how stupid you are. What a frickin clown.

You want to end the talk before we even hear his side of the story? Wow. I'd love to have you on a jury. You'd have your mind made up after the prosecution makes their case and fall asleep for the entire defense. All we've heard from to this point are EXTREMELY biased witnesses. Pretty hard to know exactly what happened based off only their statements.

Kircus' side of the story is only now starting to trickle out little by little. His agent has already stated that Kircus was not drinking the night of the incident.....let's let this play out just a little before we completely kick him to the curb.

[orange 4 life]

"He taught me all I know...taught me so well I grab that gold and left his dead ass by the side of the road"

"Dehlia lit his cigarette and she shot him in the balls"

"32 teeth in a jawbone, Alabama trying for none,
Before I have to hit him, I hope he's got the sense to run."

"My brother Esau killed the hunter, back in 1969,
Before the killing was done his inheritance was mine."

"Down to the jewelry store packin' a gun,
Says, "Wrap it up I think I'll take this one."
"A thousand dollars please," the jewelry man said,
Dupree said, "I'll pay this one off to you in lead."

"Lulu, my Lulu come and open the door.
Before I have to walk in with my old 'forty-four'."

"Jack Straw from Wichita cut his buddy down,
And dug for him a shallow grave and laid his body down."

shall I go on :)

kudo's, but how about these? :sunshine:

"we can share the women, we can share the wine"

"When there was no ear to hear you sang to me...
When I had no wings to fly you flew to me"

"What do you want me to do, to do for you to see you through.
a box of rain will ease the pain and love will see you through"

"Comes a time when the blind man takes your hand, says: don't you see?
got to make it somehow on the dreams you still believe. Don't give it up
you've got an empty cup only love can fill."

Life may be sweeter for this I don't know. feels like it might be alright.
While Lady Lullaby sings plainly for you, love still rings true."

"Honey, I love you, you love me. let's love each other through eternity."

"Tell me love is not lost. sell everything, Without love, day to day, insanity is king."

"Nothing's for certain, it could always go wrong. come in when it's raining
go on out when it's gone. we could have us a high time, living the good life
well I know."

"Wherever we go, there will be birds to cheer you, flowers to color in the fields around. wherever we go, I'll be right here near you. you can't get lost when you're always found."

"But I will give what love I have to give...long as i live"

"It's alright, 'cause I love you, and that's not gonna change. run me round, make me hurt again and again. but I'll still sing you love songs written in the letters of your name."

shall i go on? LOL
come on man, you picked story songs. no fair.

[Popps]

"YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT I'M CAPABLE OF!!!!!!"


http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2005/10/17/subway,0.jpg

[Popps]

In reality.... Subway likely wouldn't hire him after this. They're one of those weird businesses that shys away from hiring guys with criminal records.

I can see some poor guy asking for extra black olives and David losing it on him... and busting his face up. (In self defense, of course.)

[bendog]

BroncoMan, somebody who brings street fight to a drunken party NEEDS to be in jail.

Slap's right. Normal people don't keep hitting people who are no longer hitting back. What you have to do to survive in a culture filled with sociopaths is something you don't bring into the non-thug world. Alan Iverson understands that, apparantly. He's still a thug, but reportedly not a bad guy personally. But guys who don't get that don't need to be paid as athletes and prolly need to be jailed.

I dunno, Popps. Maybe if the Revs Al and Jesse boycott Subway for not having enough stores in certain areas, young Circus could be franchise material.

[Popps]

I dunno, Popps. Maybe if the Revs Al and Jesse boycott Subway for not having enough stores in certain areas, young Circus could be franchise material.

Maybe, but can you imagine the first time Jarrod comes in and asks David to sweep behind the counter? David would re-arrange his face faster than you could say 6" Veggie Combo.

[ColoradoBuff]

The guy is a classless LOSER!! See ya later Kircus!!

[Bronco_Beerslug]

You want to end the talk before we even hear his side of the story? Wow. I'd love to have you on a jury. You'd have your mind made up after the prosecution makes their case and fall asleep for the entire defense. All we've heard from to this point are EXTREMELY biased witnesses. Pretty hard to know exactly what happened based off only their statements.

Kircus' side of the story is only now starting to trickle out little by little. His agent has already stated that Kircus was not drinking the night of the incident.....let's let this play out just a little before we completely kick him to the curb.How did you find out they were "EXTREMELY" biased?

[Popps]

The guy is a classless LOSER!! See ya later Kircus!!

You obviously don't know what he's capable of, or you wouldn't dare say that.

[broncocalijohn]

Keyshawn is an a$$hole.

No thanks.

Get ready to enjoy him on ESPN now. He retired. I think he still has game left.

[Beantown Bronco]

How did you find out they were "EXTREMELY" biased?

By definition, friends are extremely biased individuals.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

By definition, friends are extremely biased individuals.Ah, I get it, it's a conspiracy against good guy Kircus.

[Beantown Bronco]

Ah, I get it, it's a conspiracy against good guy Kircus.

Never said that....all I said from the beginning was several people here know every move that was made that night, every punch that was thrown in what order and have already closed the book on this one based off of the comments of ONLY the host and his friends. I just have a fundamental problem with that.

[Popps]

Never said that....all I said from the beginning was several people here know every move that was made that night, every punch that was thrown in what order and have already closed the book on this one based off of the comments of ONLY the host and his friends. I just have a fundamental problem with that.

1. The guy's face was turned into soup.

2. Kircus has been arrested.

3. Kircus has a restraining order against him.

4. Witnesses at the party claim he attacked the man.

5. The sherif's report says he told the man "you don't know what I'm capable of."

6. The judge has ordered him to stay away from alcohol of any kind. (And oddly, the ****ing lawyer is appealing that!???!?!??!?)


So, forgive us if we don't jump on the David is Innocent bandwagon with you. Perhaps ANY SHRED of evidence to the contrary would help us out.

But, in the meanwhile... let's not pretend like this is just some rumor floated out there by some people that hate poor david. Facts are stacked up against him, and HE will bear the burden of digging himself out of this one.

[usedupbraids]

he gets booked for fighting well at least i know he anit no chump..

[theAPAOps5]

Never said that....all I said from the beginning was several people here know every move that was made that night, every punch that was thrown in what order and have already closed the book on this one based off of the comments of ONLY the host and his friends. I just have a fundamental problem with that.


Well lets see.... Home owner has facial fractures and probably hurts pretty bad right now. Kircus is smiling in his mug shot the next day without a scratch on him. Yeah that says a lot.

[Beantown Bronco]

Well lets see.... Home owner has facial fractures and probably hurts pretty bad right now. Kircus is smiling in his mug shot the next day without a scratch on him. Yeah that says a lot.

Yeah, it says Kircus won the fight. Nothing more.

[Beantown Bronco]

1. The guy's face was turned into soup.

2. Kircus has been arrested.

3. Kircus has a restraining order against him.

4. Witnesses at the party claim he attacked the man.

5. The sherif's report says he told the man "you don't know what I'm capable of."

6. The judge has ordered him to stay away from alcohol of any kind. (And oddly, the ****ing lawyer is appealing that!???!?!??!?)


So, forgive us if we don't jump on the David is Innocent bandwagon with you. Perhaps ANY SHRED of evidence to the contrary would help us out.

But, in the meanwhile... let's not pretend like this is just some rumor floated out there by some people that hate poor david. Facts are stacked up against him, and HE will bear the burden of digging himself out of this one.

Completely wrong on so many counts.

1. This can be accomplished by ONE punch.

2. You are right. I forgot....only guilty people get arrested. Missed that one.

3. By default, ANY time there is an assault charge there will be some type of restraining order issued unless the "victim" actively says he/she doesn't want one. These mean nothing.

4. Again....witnesses were all friends of the host. Find a witness that was a friend of Kircus or simply an "uninterested neighbor" who was out walking their dog and saw the whole thing happen. If they agree, then you can apply some merit to these statements.

5. OK. So he said that. I don't know how him saying that supports anything at all. Ralphie said worse things to the bully in A Christmas Story.

6. Again. A standard act whenever there is an arrest for assault regardless of whether or not alcohol was actually involved in the incident, if the suspect has any history of alcohol use/abuse.

There is no "innocent bandwagon" here. All I'm saying is he may not be the unprovoked monster that some are assuming. I easily concede that he punched the guy. I will not admit that I know any more than that, though, and anyone else here that claims to - just because they heard one side of the story - is using flawed logic.

Would I punish one of my kids solely based off of what one of them and their friends say happened, without at least attempting to hear the other side of the argument? I don't think so....

[bendog]

I'm not buying the one punch theory. It's sort of like Ali's mystery punch on Liston. It's possible, but if a person can break three bones in another person's face, that person commits an assault just by throwing a punch, unless he's already been hit and fears serious damage.

[crowebomber]

They have already fitted Kircus for his new uniform.

[fontaine]

Never said that....all I said from the beginning was several people here know every move that was made that night, every punch that was thrown in what order and have already closed the book on this one based off of the comments of ONLY the host and his friends. I just have a fundamental problem with that.

The world is full of people who love to pile on and point fingers without much to back it up.

What're you gonna do?

I understand that it doesn't look good for Kircus but some of the holier than thou bs on this thread is pretty funny.

I wonder whether the same standards were applied to Rod Smith when he made his once off mistake?

[theAPAOps5]

The only thing that gets me is Kircus broke the guys face. If it was a fight, a punch, I would brush it off but he seriously hurt a guy. Thats what I don't find acceptable. Now if it turns out the homeowner got his buddies to do some more damage or he did meet the concrete face to face then it will be perfectly understandable.

[KipCorrington25]

They have already fitted Kircus for his new uniform.


That's probably the worst looking mascot ever behind maybe the KIMN Chicken.

http://www.95kimn.com/0ae367d0.jpg

[bronco militia]

http://blogs.rockymountainnews.com/denver/drew/archives/drew0523.gif

[Bronco_Beerslug]

There is no "innocent bandwagon" here. All I'm saying is he may not be the unprovoked monster that some are assuming. I easily concede that he punched the guy. I will not admit that I know any more than that, though, and anyone else here that claims to - just because they heard one side of the story - is using flawed logic.
You claim to, like all witnesses were friends of the victim and all are prejudiced. Where did you get that from? Making assumptions that you claim to be not doing?

[Beantown Bronco]

You claim to, like all witnesses were friends of the victim and all are prejudiced. Where did you get that from? Making assumptions that you claim to be not doing?

In one of the early articles, it was mentioned that the witnesses were all guests of the host. A guest certainly isn't going to invite his enemies or people he isn't going to like, now is he (and let's be clear that Kircus was NOT invited by the host)? If THAT is making an outrageous assumption, then so be it....

And, to a degree, it is my opinion (and the opinion of many criminologists) that ALL witnesses to crimes are prejudiced in one way or another based off of their life experiences....and helps explain why eye witness testimony to events is often inaccurate, but that is another debate for another time.

[theAPAOps5]

And, to a degree, it is my opinion (and the opinion of many criminologists) that ALL witnesses to crimes are prejudiced in one way or another based off of their life experiences....and helps explain why eye witness testimony to events is often inaccurate, but that is another debate for another time.

Totally agree with you here Beantown. Somebody did a study where they staged an incident and then immediately took eye witnesses into separate rooms and the results were amazing. What people focused on was all over the place and many totally missed the description of the criminal. Ah the human mind and what it can convince its conscious it saw.

[Popps]

Would I punish one of my kids solely based off of what one of them and their friends say happened, without at least attempting to hear the other side of the argument? I don't think so....

Great analogy. Some dude getting his skull caved in is just like your kid eating a cookie behind your back. Perfect analogy.

Look, you can ignore the facts of this situation and pretend your hero ballplayer is squeaky-clean all you want. Everyone here understands that he hasn't been tried, yet. (And he probably won't... he'll probably settle, because he's probably guilty.) That doesn't mean that the facts surrounding this case can't tell a story.

Almost everyone who's looked at those facts, including the judge (restraining order) has deemed Kircus worthy of arrest and a potential danger.

But, you keep right on with the hero worship.

Now... go ahead and remind us that he hasn't gotten due process, yet.

[Beantown Bronco]

No hero worship here....just check out some of my posts on the Vick thread. I would give the same benefit of the doubt to the average joe. Call me crazy but I just like to hear both sides of a story....or at least two independent accounts of a story before I rush to judgment.

Convicting someone after hearing just one side of the story is like voting on an issue after only hearing the "pros"....and never getting around to turning the page to the listing of "cons". That's just bad form.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

In one of the early articles, it was mentioned that the witnesses were all guests of the host. A guest certainly isn't going to invite his enemies or people he isn't going to like, now is he (and let's be clear that Kircus was NOT invited by the host)? If THAT is making an outrageous assumption, then so be it....
It is making an assumption, where did you get the word "outrageous" from? Guests could have been anyone from friends or relatives of friends, etc... ....................Take Kircus for example.

[Beantown Bronco]

It is making an assumption, where did you get the word "outrageous" from? Guests could have been anyone from friends or relatives of friends, etc... ....................Take Kircus for example.

You just made my point. Kircus was NOT a guest of the host. He was the guest of a guest (in other words, he was invited by a female guest....not the host). And it was specified in one of the original articles that the witnesses that gave testimony were not "guests of guests"; they were "guests and friends of the host".

[Popps]

Actually, Kircus apparently got into with the girl who brought him, first.... THEN started in on the other people there. Sure sounds like a drunk asshole who flipped out, to me. Given... YES, I understand he's yet to be tried.

I just can't recall a time in my life where a well behaved person went to a party... and the entire party ganged up on him, including the girl he came with... and chased him down the driveway and forced him into breaking the face of the person who was chasing him.

Conversely, I can remember (as we all probably can) DOZENS of parties where a drunk asshole was asked to leave, and usually started **** because of it.

Once again, everyone realizes that he hasn't been tried. We also have eyes, ears and a brain... and given the guy has had a booze problem in the past, and given the facts as they're laid out, it's not too tough to figure out what happened here.

I mean, don't you know what he's capable of?

[Beantown Bronco]

Once again, everyone realizes that he hasn't been tried. We also have eyes, ears and a brain... and given the guy has had a booze problem in the past, and given the facts as they're laid out, it's not too tough to figure out what happened here.

And what facts are those? Oh yeah, the ones that are coming out of one and only one camp. You can let one-sided facts determine how you see things for the rest of your life if you want to, but that's not a good way to go IMO.

Are you saying you've never changed your stance on anything after hearing the other side of the argument, despite how sure you were that choice #1 had to be the way to go, because the "pros" column looked that good?

[Bronco_Beerslug]

You just made my point. Kircus was NOT a guest of the host. He was the guest of a guest (in other words, he was invited by a female guest....not the host). And it was specified in one of the original articles that the witnesses that gave testimony were not "guests of guests"; they were "guests and friends of the host".Uh duh, my point exactly! You are assuming everyone else (all witnesses) are friends of the victim.

[Popps]

And what facts are those? Oh yeah, the ones that are coming out of one and only one camp.

Yea... the cops, everyone at the party and a guy who's face was collapsed at the end of his own driveway.

Yea, those facts.

You're right, I haven't yet heard the spin-job little David and his slimy lawyer (who's trying to overturn the no-alcohol ruling) fabricated.

Again, I'm sure this guy chased little David down to the end of the driveway and gave him NO CHOICE but to give him a free face-lift. I'm sure little David never had the chance to just walk away.... and I'm sure EVERYone at the party is in on this scam to screw little David.

No doubt.

[Beantown Bronco]

Uh duh, my point exactly! You are assuming everyone else (all witnesses) are friends of the victim.

Nope. I never made that assumption. The writer of the article specified it.

[Beantown Bronco]

Yea... the cops, everyone at the party and a guy who's face was collapsed at the end of his own driveway.

Yea, those facts.

Those aren't facts. The cops based a report off of the witness testimony....and not everyone at the party even saw what happened, but I do like the exaggeration.

You're right, I haven't yet heard the spin-job little David and his slimy lawyer (who's trying to overturn the no-alcohol ruling) fabricated.

So anyone working for Kircus is slimy and a liar.....but friends and family of the victim are completely clean and unbiased? OK - I just wanted to make sure I had that down.

Again, I'm sure this guy chased little David down to the end of the driveway and gave him NO CHOICE but to give him a free face-lift. I'm sure little David never had the chance to just walk away.... and I'm sure EVERYone at the party is in on this scam to screw little David.

No doubt.

One could make the argument that because the event occurred in the driveway that perhaps Kircus was in fact trying to just walk away. It didn't happen in the house, now did it?

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Nope. I never made that assumption. The writer of the article specified it.What article "specified" all witnesses were prejudiced friends of the victim?

[Popps]

Those aren't facts. The cops based a report off of the witness testimony.

Of course they are facts. The guy's face was crushed. The cops arrested him... and everyone there said it was Kircus that was the ass. What part of that don't you get?

Yes, for the billionth time, we know Kircus will have a chance to try to weasel out of it in court, and likely just settle. (Gosh, I wonder why.)

So anyone working for Kircus is slimy and a liar..

Any lawyer that concerned with a no alcohol ruling for a guy with a troubled alcohol past and a current situation reportedly involving alcohol.... yes, is a scumbag, in my opinion.

One could make the argument that because the event occurred in the driveway that perhaps Kircus was in fact trying to just walk away. It didn't happen in the house, now did it?

Hilarious!

Yea, he made it all the way to the street... and the host of the party suddenly decided that he MUST have his face busted up.

Sure, sounds very probable to me. All of those witnesses are probably lying.

As a side note, when this is all over... Little David is apparently going to join Mike Vick to help O.J. find the real killer.

[KipCorrington25]

Hey, did everyone see that picture of the KIMN Chicken I posted? Funny huh? Takes you down memory lane I bet, right?

[listopencil]

I guess it's a good thing Kircus gets to face a trial in a courtroom instead of trial by internet. I'll make my decision when the facts come out.

[Popps]

Look, I'm just saying the events don't look good... and frankly, I'm tired of extending these dopes any benefit of the doubt when they rarely deserve it. This idiot could have kept himself out of that situation, I'll guarantee it. As I've said, MANY HIGHER profile celebs manage to handle themselves with grace and dignity. NFL employees are a different story.

[theAPAOps5]

CENTENNIAL (AP) - A newly-released investigator's report says Broncos receiver David Kircus told another man, "You don't know what I'm capable of" after Kircus allegedly punched him in the face.

Kircus faces charges of second-degree assault and violent crime after an altercation at a party in Centennial early Sunday.
He was initially arrested on the assault charge alone.

An Arapahoe County sheriff's report made public Friday said Kircus had been asked to leave the party, and the alleged victim escorted him to the sidewalk.

The report said Kircus pointed out they were no longer on private property and hit the other man in the eye, causing multiple fractures.

Kircus is free on $6,000 bond. He could face two to six years in prison if convicted.

Meantime, a judge is considering whether to loosen a restraining order against Kircus so he can travel out of state and drink alcohol while he awaits the outcome of the case.

District Judge Anne Ollada said Friday morning she wants to hear from the alleged victim first.

Another hearing on the matter is scheduled later Friday.

Kircus is a backup receiver and return specialist who joined the team last season. He had nine receptions for a team-leading 20.eight yards per catch, and returned six punts for a 14.3-yard average last year.

Broncos coach Mike Shanahan is waiting to see how the case develops but said, "Obviously, if he didn't handle himself the right way he won't be with us."


(Copyright Associated Press, All Rights Reserved)

http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=70786

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Looks like it was only one hit to the eye and it broke in several places. Kircus quoted as saying, "We aren't on private property anymore" and then pops him.

[bendog]

He's capable of paying this guy his entire salary this year, assuming he isn't cut. He's as stupid as Lelie, but oh so much tougher.

[crush17]

what the bloody hell was he thinking being out that late at some party?

GET YOUR SH1T TOGETHER KIRCUS!

[DenverBrit]

Regardless of the outcome, don't you think Kircus is done in Denver?

[bendog]

Regardless of the outcome, don't you think Kircus is done in Denver?

He's done, but with R. Smith looking doubtful and being so cheap cap-wise, Shanny may feel he needs a vet and keep him for the season, hoping he can keep his nose clean.

[Steve Prefontaine]

An Arapahoe County sheriff's report made public Friday said Kircus had been asked to leave the party, and the alleged victim escorted him to the sidewalk.

The report said Kircus pointed out they were no longer on private property and hit the other man in the eye, causing multiple fractures.

I'm not defending Kircus but here is the one thing I don't get. Unless this guy was literally taking Kircus by the arm, why would he walk with him all the way down the sidewalk? If someone is at my house and gets unruly/violent/belligerent and I don't want an altercation, I ask him to leave and watch him walk to the sidewalk. If he still doesn't leave, I call the cops.

Very minor point, but I figured I might throw it in here since Kircus is already on trial here.

[bendog]

I'm not defending Kircus but here is the one thing I don't get. Unless this guy was literally taking Kircus by the arm, why would he walk with him all the way down the sidewalk? If someone is at my house and gets unruly/violent/belligerent and I don't want an altercation, I ask him to leave and watch him walk to the sidewalk. If he still doesn't leave, I call the cops.

Very minor point, but I figured I might throw it in here since Kircus is already on trial here.

Not a minor point. I don't think anyone has said for sure that it's obvious the other guy was not also acting like a jerk, though. But, Circus is an NFL player. That means he's supposed to walk away even from insults, unless someone uses force first, and then he needs to use the minimum amount to protect himself. It's obvious he didn't. He may skate, but I think shanny will look to replace him when he can, unless Circus makes some effort to Grow the F up.

[yerner]

Good bye David Kircus.

[theAPAOps5]

So I did some research on the victim. With his age and all I decided to hit up Myspace.com. I found a Jeff Kreiger in Centennial, CO but the age doesn't match. IF it is the same dude I don't know why Kircus felt the need to pop him. The guy is scrawny compared to Kircus. It also says he works at his families nar Finn McCools in Centennial as the night manager.

I also looked to see if David Kircus has a Myspace page. He does but its private so you can't visit it. But the picture of him is him drinking. That and now he got a successful release to travel and DRINK this weekend makes me wonder if he tends to imbibe a little too much.

Anyways just doing some novice investigative reporting, carry on.

[WoodMan]

Kircus has done it this time. He is done! Stupid ****!

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/05/25/kircus.assault.ap/index.html

CENTENNIAL, Colo. (AP) -- A newly released investigator's report says Broncos receiver David Kircus threatened a man after Kircus allegedly punched him in the face.

Kircus faces a second-degree assault charge after an altercation at a party in suburban Denver early Sunday. Prosecutors added a second count, violent crime, as a sentence enhancer that could lead to a stiffer penalty if he is convicted.

An Arapahoe County sheriff's report made public Friday said Kircus had been asked to leave the party, and the alleged victim had escorted him to the sidewalk. The report said Kircus pointed out they were no longer on private property and hit the other man in the eye, causing multiple fractures.

"You don't know what I'm capable of," Kircus told the man, according to the report.

Kircus, who resumed his NFL career last season after spending a year away from football working in a sandwich shop, is free on $6,000 bail. If convicted, he could be sentenced to two to six years in prison.

At a hearing Friday, District Judge Anne Ollada granted a request from Kircus' attorney, Harvey Steinberg, to change the terms of a restraining order against Kircus so he can travel out of state this weekend.

Ollada also agreed to remove a provision that barred Kircus from drinking alcohol, but after a prosecutor said Kircus may have a DUI conviction on his record, the judge said the ban could be reimposed.

In July 2005, Kircus pleaded guilty in Hudsonville, Mich., to driving under the influence. He was ordered to pay $850 in fines and court costs and sentenced to time served -- the one day he had spent in jail after his arrest. He played for the Detroit Lions at the time.

The restraining order, issued Tuesday, also bars Kircus from contacting the alleged victim or any witnesses. The order is routine in such cases, prosecutors said.

Kircus wore a pinstripe suit, a maroon shirt and a tie to court Friday. Both he and Steinberg refused to comment afterward, but as they approached a bank of TV cameras outside the courthouse, Steinberg told his client, "I'll be the blocker."

Coach Mike Shanahan is waiting to see how the case develops but said this week, "Obviously, if he didn't handle himself the right way he won't be with us."

Kircus is a backup receiver and return specialist who joined the team last season. He had nine receptions for a team-leading 20.8 yards per catch and returned six punts for a 14.3-yard average last year.

[theAPAOps5]

I posted the exact same story about 8 posts earlier, Woodman!!!!! Kircus looks to be in some trouble.

[WoodMan]

Yeah, I saw that. I was late as usual, but the wife doesn't mind.

[orange 4 life]

So I did some research on the victim. With his age and all I decided to hit up Myspace.com. I found a Jeff Kreiger in Centennial, CO but the age doesn't match. IF it is the same dude I don't know why Kircus felt the need to pop him. The guy is scrawny compared to Kircus. It also says he works at his families nar Finn McCools in Centennial as the night manager.

I also looked to see if David Kircus has a Myspace page. He does but its private so you can't visit it. But the picture of him is him drinking. That and now he got a successful release to travel and DRINK this weekend makes me wonder if he tends to imbibe a little too much.

Anyways just doing some novice investigative reporting, carry on.

its not my place to go into details about HOW i know this, but trust me when i say that jeff krieger is not some "bad ass", he's not a big guy, and to my knowledge he hasnt been in a fight in years.
he's just an "average joe", and by all accounts (which are many that i know) a decent enough guy.

[-Slap-]

An Arapahoe County sheriff's report made public Friday said Kircus had been asked to leave the party, and the alleged victim escorted him to the sidewalk.

The report said Kircus pointed out they were no longer on private property and hit the other man in the eye, causing multiple fractures.

From this description of events, it almost sounds like our boy uncorked a sucker punch on top of everything else.

[watermock]

Didn't someone say you can see Dove Valley from the jail? I hope he enjoys being the Arapahoe County Cook and they give him a nice view. It looks like he's toast. And mac and cheese.

Nice of him giving the alleged victim a warning about it being public property.

[orange 4 life]

6. The judge has ordered him to stay away from alcohol of any kind. (And oddly, the ****ing lawyer is appealing that!???!?!??!?)


said lawyer got that overturned.
kircus is now free to leave for the weekend and drink.
good thing, cause God knows it would really suck to not be able
to drink for a few days. :oyvey:

[telluride]

They need to simply release his ass. That the team has not yet done so is disturbing.

[Florida_Bronco]

They need to simply release his ass. That the team has not yet done so is disturbing.

Why is that?

Seriously, lets keep this in perspective. Looks to me like Kircus went to a party, had a little too much to drink, started acting like a fool and punched a guy.

It was a stupid decision and one that he should be punished for, but it's not something that is overly sadistic or pre-meditated (sp?) like Vick's dog fighting thing and to my knowledge Kircus has never had any serious legal trouble.

IMO, Kircus should be required to pay the victims medical costs/some pain and suffering as well as being required to complete some kind of program related to the alcohol. Throw in some community service or something to that effect and it should be done with.

Of course that just covers the legal side of the matter. Obviously the league will probably punish him as well, and I think a 1 to 4 game suspension would be fitting, but it's not something where I feel we should be calling for him to be thrown off the team.

[telluride]

Well, I made this point up higher in the thread, but here's the quick recap. At 3:00 a.m. on the morning before OTAs begin, he's at a party, drunk. An he subsequently misses the OTA. That poor judgement alone should get him fired from the team. To say nothing of the fact that he's apparently a drunk with rage issues.

The NFL is a business like any other. If an employee chooses to miss work because he'd rather be partying, then fire him. He's simply not worth the black eye he has already given the team, and will continue to give the team. (He's charged with a felony, for God's sake.)

[Florida_Bronco]

Well, I made this point up higher in the thread, but here's the quick recap. At 3:00 a.m. on the morning before OTAs begin, he's at a party, drunk. An he subsequently misses the OTA. That poor judgement alone should get him fired from the team. To say nothing of the fact that he's apparently a drunk with rage issues.

The NFL is a business like any other. If an employee chooses to miss work because he'd rather be partying, then fire him. He's simply not worth the black eye he has already given the team, and will continue to give the team. (He's charged with a felony, for God's sake.)

Again, I'm not defending his decision, but some people are just being unreasonable about the punishment he should receive. If he had prior problems in Denver, then maybe you could talk about releasing him or something.

We also have to remember that we don't know how David is handling this with the organization. We don't know the conversation he has had with Shanny and/or Bowlen.

[Popps]

but it's not something where I feel we should be calling for him to be thrown off the team.

Well, to be sure... if this was Jay Cutler or Champ Bailey, we'd be seeing much leaner sentences handed out around here. No doubt about that.

Not from me, though. I'm tired of these f#ck-sticks crapping on our sport. I don't care how good Kircus may be, or not be, in this case. He can take his "tough guy" act somewhere else and go **** himself. This is a game we raise our children to watch. It's one thing not to be a role model... it's another to be paying money to stand and cheer for a league full of thugs and criminals.

Hey, if little David is so tough... let him join the Hell's Angels, or spend some time in a prison gang. (Which he may have opportunity to do.) Of course, that might not work out as easy as sucker-punching a kid at a drunken party. But, David is a badass, right? Hey... we don't even know what he's capable of! Maybe he can really show us all and end up like his brother.

[Florida_Bronco]

Well, to be sure... if this was Jay Cutler or Champ Bailey, we'd be seeing much leaner sentences handed out around here. No doubt about that.

Not from me, though. I'm tired of these f#ck-sticks crapping on our sport. I don't care how good Kircus may be, or not be, in this case. He can take his "tough guy" act somewhere else and go **** himself. This is a game we raise our children to watch. It's one thing not to be a role model... it's another to be paying money to stand and cheer for a league full of thugs and criminals.

Hey, if little David is so tough... let him join the Hell's Angels, or spend some time in a prison gang. (Which he may have opportunity to do.) Of course, that might not work out as easy as sucker-punching a kid at a drunken party. But, David is a badass, right? Hey... we don't even know what he's capable of! Maybe he can really show us all and end up like his brother.

Like I said, lets keep this all in perspective.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Not from me, though. I'm tired of these f#ck-sticks crapping on our sport. I don't care how good Kircus may be, or not be, in this case. He can take his "tough guy" act somewhere else and go **** himself. This is a game we raise our children to watch. It's one thing not to be a role model... it's another to be paying money to stand and cheer for a league full of thugs and criminals.

Hey, if little David is so tough... let him join the Hell's Angels, or spend some time in a prison gang. (Which he may have opportunity to do.) Of course, that might not work out as easy as sucker-punching a kid at a drunken party. But, David is a badass, right? Hey... we don't even know what he's capable of! Maybe he can really show us all and end up like his brother.
You raise your kids right and you won't need to worry about what David Kircus is doing. I submit if you're that concerned about your kids being influenced by strangers they'll never meet, you should turn off the TV on Sundays and not let them watch it...don't let 'em out of the house either as far as that goes...they might hear or see something they shouldn't...and you do the same to set a good example. And as for the league "full of thugs and criminals"...we've already established that's media crap...they're half as likely to be arrested as your next door neighbor is. But by focusing constant hysteria on the ones that do get in trouble, it's easy to use that broad brush ain't it?

Sucker punching a "kid"...I thought the guy was 26...no? Next you'll have him in elementary school suckin' on a lolipop. And as far as the verbal threat you keep quoting...that comes from heresay...his friends said he said that. You have no idea if it's true or not.

Facts...why bother? ???

[footstepsfrom#27]

Well, I made this point up higher in the thread, but here's the quick recap. At 3:00 a.m. on the morning before OTAs begin, he's at a party, drunk. An he subsequently misses the OTA. That poor judgement alone should get him fired from the team. To say nothing of the fact that he's apparently a drunk with rage issues.
Get real...do you seriously think he was the only Bronco who's been out late partying the night before this thing that isn't even minicamp yet? Second, if drinking to much disqualified guys from the league half of 'em would be gone. We don't know if he has "rage issues" either...he's never been in trouble before that we know of save for a DUI...and I bet there's a couple dozen on this board who have one or more of those.
The NFL is a business like any other. If an employee chooses to miss work because he'd rather be partying, then fire him. He's simply not worth the black eye he has already given the team, and will continue to give the team. (He's charged with a felony, for God's sake.)
Charged ain't convicted is it? And how many shots did House, Romo, Griese, Mobley, etc...get? Let the legal system play its cards.

What would you guys have to talk about if it wern't for Kircus and Vick? Nothing I guess...

[orange 4 life]

What would you guys have to talk about if it wern't for Kircus and Vick? Nothing I guess...

dont lump those two together.

what vick did was premeditated and played out for at least a period of months (if not longer).
kircus appears to be a hothead (two prior training camp spats in addition to this incident) and assuming the reports are true then he screwed up royally.

that said, its a far cry from the larger scale criminal activity vick was supporting.

[footstepsfrom#27]

dont lump those two together.

what vick did was premeditated and played out for at least a period of months (if not longer).
kircus appears to be a hothead (two prior training camp spats in addition to this incident) and assuming the reports are true then he screwed up royally.
Don't link Kircus training camp incidents to the alleged assault. I don't hear anyone knocking Foxworth and Bly for their roles in that.

As for Vick...I read something this morning from the guy who lives right next door to him...this dude claims he's seen Vick on the property, in his words..."a total of about two weeks out of the last two years". I don't know any more about it than that...just saying that the legal system needs to play out.

[orange 4 life]

Don't link Kircus training camp incidents to the alleged assault. I don't hear anyone knocking Foxworth and Bly for their roles in that.

As for Vick...I read something this morning from the guy who lives right next door to him...this dude claims he's seen Vick on the property, in his words..."a total of about two weeks out of the last two years". I don't know any more about it than that...just saying that the legal system needs to play out.

two weeks in the last two years would be MORE than enough time to not be able to claim ignorance.
in addition, vicks claim was that he was NEVER at that residence, so 2 weeks would be 2 weeks longer than he originally claimed.
no, i dont need to wait for the legal system to play out in that case. he may well get off easier than he should, but that wont make it right.
at this point its a virtual CERTAINTY that he knew what was going on (and was financing it), and at that point i dont give a rip if he witnessed the fights themselves or not. he supported it, and that makes him a piece of garbage.

as for kircus, the training camp incidents of course dont prove anything, but they did happen. how many other guys have had 2 training camp fights in 2 years?
it just shows that this guy might have some anger issues, or more appropriately some CONTROL issues.

[Popps]

that said, its a far cry from the larger scale criminal activity vick was supporting.

True, it's just a front and center example because it's our own team. Just supports a larger point. Why anyone would argue the point is beyond me.

There are usually two dopey schools of thought for arguing it...

1. Don't watch it if you don't like the players.

Imagine how ignorant that is when applied to anything else in life.

I have a clean house. I got a bug infestation... well, I'd better move out. I don't like it, right? I don't like the president of the country. I'd better move out. Don't try to change anything, just move out.

2. Athletes aren't role models.

David Kircus doesn't matter to your kid.

This theory is almost exclusively pushed by people without kids, first off. But, that aside... no one said Little David had to be a role model. He just has to not be a thug. Families go to games to cheer (and pay) athletes. It's fair enough that those families ask the same things any other business asks of any other employee. Cheering for a rapist isn't exactly productive for kids.

"but.... if you raise your kids correctly.... but, but but!!!"

Yea, well... in this case, raising them correctly would mean not attending games because criminals have **** all over it. Most of us with kids would prefer not to have to do that.

Again... if a school teacher was found to have a history of assault and alcohol arrests, he/she'd be relieved of duty. Ballplayers don't deserve any preferential treatment.... not for my money, anyway.

[Popps]

Like I said, lets keep this all in perspective.

Exactly what I'm doing.

[footstepsfrom#27]

...no, i dont need to wait for the legal system to play out in that case.
Let's hope you're never on a jury.
...as for kircus, the training camp incidents of course dont prove anything, but they did happen. how many other guys have had 2 training camp fights in 2 years?
I don't know...how many? Your question implies you have some knowledge of this...do you?
it just shows that this guy might have some anger issues, or more appropriately some CONTROL issues.
So if Foxworth or Bly has another fight in practice, they have anger/control issues too, right?

I think it's a huge leap to use a couple practice field fights to support evidence in a felony assault case.

[orange 4 life]

you know what your problem is steps?

you think a message board is a courtroom. it isnt.
we arent on a jury, and youre not a lawyer or a judge.

we look at whats put in front of us and we form a logical OPINION
based on that information.
for some reason you fail to grasp this very simple concept.