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View Full Version : Interesting read from the SAExpress:


defenseman
05-16-2007, 10:04 AM
Web Posted: 05/15/2007 06:06 PM CDT
San Antonio Express-News

From the foiled terrorist plot at Fort Dix, we can learn at least four important lessons.
First: Stop blaming America. Four of the six accused conspirators are ethnic Albanians from the Kosovo region of the former Yugoslavia. A decade ago, Kosovo was the scene of a bloody struggle between Serbian nationalists and Albanian Muslims.

The Clinton administration made determined diplomatic efforts to end the violence in Kosovo, as elsewhere in the Balkans. When diplomacy collapsed in 1999, Bill Clinton compelled America's European allies to take military action in support of the Albanians.

NATO — which effectively meant the United States — launched a 78-day bombing campaign of Slobodan Milosevic's Serbia. Gen. Wesley Clark commanded the operation.

By mid-June, the American-led effort halted the ethnic cleansing of Albanian Muslims. KFOR, a NATO security force for Kosovo, arrived. Some 1,700 Americans still serve in Kosovo, constituting about 10 percent of KFOR's troop strength.

That a group of Albanian Muslims would conspire to slaughter American soldiers on U.S. soil is evidence that goodwill efforts and public diplomacy will never win the hearts and minds of Islamic extremists.

Irrespective of what the United States does in the world, their belief system requires them to destroy the forces of liberalism and modernity, of which the United States is the foremost exponent.

Why do they hate us? Because they subscribe to a hateful ideology, not because of American actions.

Second: Don't redeploy from New Jersey. Closely related to the blame-America theory of international terrorism is the belief that the presence of U.S. troops in Iraq is what propels the violent insurgency. Remove the U.S. military, this line of reasoning goes, and al-Qaida jihadists and Baathist dead-enders will simply melt away.

The logical extension of this argument is that the removal of American forces will cause al-Qaida jihadists and Taliban dead-enders to quit Afghanistan. And the obvious corollary to this strained hypothesis is that the United States should now strategically redeploy its forces from New Jersey, perhaps to Staten Island or Okinawa.

Before Gen. Peter Pace draws up plans to evacuate Fort Dix, it might be worth pondering whether this hypothesis is even remotely accurate.

Third: Immigration is national security. Three of the conspirators were in the United States illegally, legitimately entering the country as children then overstaying their visas. Despite misdemeanor run-ins with law enforcement for traffic and drug offenses, their illegal status never became an issue.

Two other conspirators held green cards. Which means — frighteningly — that after background investigations, the U.S. government deemed these men eligible for permanent resident status.

Nearly six years after 9-11, how on Earth is this possible?

It goes without saying that a small number of the millions of immigrants who legally and illegally enter this country pose a threat to national security. It also goes without saying that a small number of immigrants with legal and illegal status carried out the 9-11 plot.

The 9-11 commission famously cited a failure of imagination in assessing the terrorist threat. There's no imagination required here.

Twelve million immigrants are in the United States illegally. More come every day while others who are here legally fall out of legal compliance. Our enemies know how to evade and game a porous immigration system.

The United States should have a generous immigration policy that takes into account economic and social realities in this nation and elsewhere. But the inability of the federal government to control its borders and keep track of visitors is national suicide.

Fourth: The United States has real enemies who intend to do real harm to Americans.

Finding the proper balance between privacy and security in a new form of war is an ongoing process.

But pretending those enemies and that war don't exist will ultimately prove disastrous both to civil liberties and national security

http://www.mysanantonio.com/opinion/stories/MYSA051607.02O.gurwitz.21b5715.html

Thought this was a reasonably well thought out article that may spark some interest.....dman

Rohirrim
05-16-2007, 10:19 AM
Second: Don't redeploy from New Jersey. Closely related to the blame-America theory of international terrorism is the belief that the presence of U.S. troops in Iraq is what propels the violent insurgency. Remove the U.S. military, this line of reasoning goes, and al-Qaida jihadists and Baathist dead-enders will simply melt away.

The logical extension of this argument is that the removal of American forces will cause al-Qaida jihadists and Taliban dead-enders to quit Afghanistan. And the obvious corollary to this strained hypothesis is that the United States should now strategically redeploy its forces from New Jersey, perhaps to Staten Island or Okinawa.

Since I've never heard anyone propose such a theory, I wonder who this is referring to? I agree with the immigration part. If we can't control our own borders, we're toast.

defenseman
05-16-2007, 10:32 AM
Second: Don't redeploy from New Jersey. Closely related to the blame-America theory of international terrorism is the belief that the presence of U.S. troops in Iraq is what propels the violent insurgency. Remove the U.S. military, this line of reasoning goes, and al-Qaida jihadists and Baathist dead-enders will simply melt away.

The logical extension of this argument is that the removal of American forces will cause al-Qaida jihadists and Taliban dead-enders to quit Afghanistan. And the obvious corollary to this strained hypothesis is that the United States should now strategically redeploy its forces from New Jersey, perhaps to Staten Island or Okinawa.

Since I've never heard anyone propose such a theory, I wonder who this is referring to? I agree with the immigration part. If we can't control our own borders, we're toast.

I found that interesting also. This "theory" went un-noticed by me also. Never heard of it. Maybe someone here has, if so, I'd certianly like to hear some pro's and con's...dman

Bronco Bob
05-16-2007, 11:28 AM
Another thing we can learn is illegal wiretaps and suspending the Constitution
isn't what is going to make us safe from terrorists. It's common citizens
keeping their eyes open and reporting suspicious activity.

Second: Don't redeploy from New Jersey. Closely related to the blame-America theory of international terrorism is the belief that the presence of U.S. troops in Iraq is what propels the violent insurgency. Remove the U.S. military, this line of reasoning goes, and al-Qaida jihadists and Baathist dead-enders will simply melt away.


Red herrings and straw men abound in this claim. No one credible is saying that will happen.

The logical extension of this argument is that the removal of American forces will cause al-Qaida jihadists and Taliban dead-enders to quit Afghanistan. And the obvious corollary to this strained hypothesis is that the United States should now strategically redeploy its forces from New Jersey, perhaps to Staten Island or Okinawa.

No, not logical. More like the old slippery slope arguments, which is in fact a logical fallacy.

TailgateNut
05-16-2007, 12:52 PM
Web Posted: 05/15/2007 06:06 PM CDT
San Antonio Express-News



Immigration is national security. Three of the conspirators were in the United States illegally, legitimately entering the country as children then overstaying their visas. Despite misdemeanor run-ins with law enforcement for traffic and drug offenses, their illegal status never became an issue.

Two other conspirators held green cards. Which means — frighteningly — that after background investigations, the U.S. government deemed these men eligible for permanent resident status.

Nearly six years after 9-11, how on Earth is this possible?

It goes without saying that a small number of the millions of immigrants who legally and illegally enter this country pose a threat to national security. It also goes without saying that a small number of immigrants with legal and illegal status carried out the 9-11 plot.

The 9-11 commission famously cited a failure of imagination in assessing the terrorist threat. There's no imagination required here.

Twelve million immigrants are in the United States illegally. More come every day while others who are here legally fall out of legal compliance. Our enemies know how to evade and game a porous immigration system.



http://www.mysanantonio.com/opinion/stories/MYSA051607.02O.gurwitz.21b5715.html

Thought this was a reasonably well thought out article that may spark some interest.....dman


There's one of the main "KEYS" to solving the attacks from within, not counting th e "once in a blue moon" "crazy ****ing American citizen" which we cannot control.

and as the writer points out: "Nearly six years after 9-11, how on Earth is this possible?"

No ****, maybe because we are to damn busy chasing our tails, and creating more hatred overseas in lieu of cleaning up the garbage in our own country.

Hunt them down, deport them, incarcerate them, or shoot them. If they are here illegally, the are breaking laws and need to be found NOW!

defenseman
05-16-2007, 02:29 PM
There's one of the main "KEYS" to solving the attacks from within, not counting th e "once in a blue moon" "crazy ****ing American citizen" which we cannot control.

and as the writer points out: "Nearly six years after 9-11, how on Earth is this possible?"

No ****, maybe because we are to damn busy chasing our tails, and creating more hatred overseas in lieu of cleaning up the garbage in our own country.

Hunt them down, deport them, incarcerate them, or shoot them. If they are here illegally, the are breaking laws and need to be found NOW!

Appears the illegal immigrant problem has you as agitated as I am. Nice to see. Yep, when they break a law, as small as a parking ticket, incarcerate and toss back south of the border, one at a time, but it is a start...dman