xenu gave us body thetans which we must telepathically destroy

[yavoon]

http://www.xenu.net/archive/leaflet/xenuleaf.htm

there are no words.

[theAPAOps5]

You know I generally accept and defend religions but for the life of me I can't find a way to argue for this type of ideology.

[Taco John]

You know I generally accept and defend religions but for the life of me I can't find a way to argue for this type of ideology.



That's what the Body Thetans want you to think. You are under their control and you don't even know it.

You're glib.

[W*GS]

My wife once worked for a company run on the principles of Scientology. One totally effed up group of people...

[Bronco Bob]

Didn't Scientology get its start when L. Ron Hubbard made a bet with someone
that he could start his own religion and people would follow it?

[yavoon]

Didn't Scientology get its start when L. Ron Hubbard made a bet with someone
that he could start his own religion and people would follow it?

they say that, but I think hubbard believed this stuff fullbore. though the bet thing is a cool theory too.

if u want to goto super crazy levels:

http://www.scientomogy.com/ot8/

*warning* might be dumber after reading.

[Bronco Bob]

they say that, but I think hubbard believed this stuff fullbore. though the bet thing is a cool theory too.

if u want to goto super crazy levels:

http://www.scientomogy.com/ot8/

*warning* might be dumber after reading.

It's almost as if not only was his goal to start a religion, but to make it
sound as goofy as possible and see how many people would even still
believe in it. I mean from a purely objective point of view Judaism/
Christianity/Islam has some pretty nutty ideas; such as people flying
around with wings on their backs living up in the clouds, and others
having horns on their head and goat feet who live underground in fire.
But Scientology takes nuttiness to a whole new level.

[yavoon]

It's almost as if not only was his goal to start a religion, but to make it
sound as goofy as possible and see how many people would even still
believe in it. I mean from a purely objective point of view Judaism/
Christianity/Islam has some pretty nutty ideas; such as people flying
around with wings on their backs living up in the clouds, and others
having horns on their head and goat feet who live underground in fire.
But Scientology takes nuttiness to a whole new level.

but hubbard's life wasn't like normal, BUT he had this weirdass view that is scientology. he was in a lot of ways a complete wacko. claiming fake war medals, fake degrees, living on boats w/ lil boys. I'm suspicious of any implication that HE was the sane one laffing at his practical joke.

either way is sufficiently funny tho.

[yavoon]

man the rabbit hole on scientology is deep, and hilarious.

http://www.bestweekever.tv/tag/Scientology

[Rohirrim]

It's almost as if not only was his goal to start a religion, but to make it
sound as goofy as possible and see how many people would even still
believe in it. I mean from a purely objective point of view Judaism/
Christianity/Islam has some pretty nutty ideas; such as people flying
around with wings on their backs living up in the clouds, and others
having horns on their head and goat feet who live underground in fire.
But Scientology takes nuttiness to a whole new level.

Why do you think it draws so many actors? A nuttier group of people I've never seen, except maybe psychiatrists and psychologists. But I'm being glib.

[alkemical]

BBC reporter blows his top at Scientologist (http://www.thothweb.com/article5089.html)

A bitter row has erupted between the BBC and the Church of Scientology after an experienced reporter lost his temper on camera and screamed at a senior member of the controversial group for 30 seconds.

The corporation has been forced to defend itself against claims in a Scientology DVD that it orchestrated a demonstration against the group, whose adherents include Hollywood actors John Travolta, Tom Cruise and Anne Archer, in which a "terrorist death threat" was allegedly made.

John Sweeney, a journalist for Panorama, has also had to apologise for his outburst after he was filmed shouting furiously at Tommy Davis, a Scientologist.

But Sandy Smith, the investigative programme's editor, has denied that it organised a protest against the group.

Mr Smith said: "Their DVD contains two grossly defamatory claims about us - one, that we staged a demonstration against Scientology and two, that a terrorist death threat was made.

"It is absolutely outrageous to suggest that the BBC would organise a demonstration - why would we?"

He added that the Scientologists wrote the script for the DVD in a "curious way" but that it "clearly implied that a terrorist death threat was made" at the demonstration.

A BBC spokesman added: "These allegations are clearly laughable and utter nonsense."

But a Scientology spokesman replied: "The BBC's statements are incorrect."

Mike Rinder, a Scientology official, said the group had been forced to film Mr Sweeney because the BBC crew had "pre-written" the documentary.

He added: "It became clear to us that his story was pre-written.

"He wouldn't let the facts get in the way, so we decided to do a John Sweeney on John Sweeney."

In the Scientologists' clip of the outburst, which it posted on video-sharing website YouTube, Mr Sweeney is heard screaming: "Now listen to me! You were not there at the beginning of the interview! You were not there!

"You did not hear or record all the interview! Do you understand?

"You are quoting the second half of the interview, not the first half. You cannot assert what you are saying!"

His shouting all but drowns out the words of the Scientologist, who simply repeats over and over again: "Brainwashing is a crime against humanity."

Last night Mr Sweeney said his behaviour had resulted in him having his "arse kicked" by the BBC.

He said: "What I did was wrong and stupid and I am embarrassed about it. I let down the team and I let down the BBC.

"It was my seventh day with the Scientologists and I snapped. I have had my arse kicked by the BBC but they have not fired me."

Explaining the background to his outburst, he said: "I felt I was being brainwashed.

"I had been in the Scientologists' Psychiatry: Industry of Death exhibition which claims that modern psychiatry is a Nazi pseudo-science."

He claimed that his crew were followed continuously during filming and counted 13 "suspicious strangers" who kept tabs on them while in the US and Britain. One even turned up at his wedding, he alleged.

Mr Smith claimed the crew had become victims of a "smear tactic" used by the Church of Scientology against anyone who questioned its methods.

Before he died, the organisation's founder, L Ron Hubbard, declared that anyone who opposed it was "fair game" and could legitimately be "tricked, sued or lied to and destroyed".

Mr Smith said: "This is the most clear 'fair game' smear tactic from the Scientologists - and now they are doing it against us."

Mr Sweeney recently shouted: "Are you a member of a brainwashing cult?" at John Travolta.

The actor wrote in a letter to the BBC: "There was a man screaming insults and accusations about my religion, for the respected institution of the BBC. As a journalist he should not be given a forum to air his personal prejudices, bigotry and animosity."

[RkyMtnThunder]

Didn't Scientology get its start when L. Ron Hubbard made a bet with someone
that he could start his own religion and people would follow it?

I believe in a way - yes.

From what I understand, Dianetics was orginally published in support of the science of Psychology as it was understood at the time. (1940's ish)

It was well received originally, but then sales dipped dramatically.

It was re-published with a spiritual angle and remarketed as such with overwhelming success.

Prior to his invention of Scientology, L.Ron Hubbard was allegedly associated with other maverick spiritual groups such as Aleister Crowley's Ordo Templi Orientis. (No judgment on the O.T.O. - just that its not for me)

Hubbard is an interesting character to study because there are several conflicting views of the man.

But as far as I am concerned, the man was a con artist who created a religion for the sake of profit (rather than prophet)

'There is a sucker born every minute'

[alkemical]

Scientology's Origins Exposed? (http://www.disinfo.com/content/story.php?title=Scientologys-Origins-Exposed)

It's been said many times that L. Ron Hubbard started Scientology as a money-making scheme after his science fiction career stalled. But what if he didn't even come up with it himself? Behold! The German tome that Hubbard supposedly plagiarized in order to come up with his offbeat religion! After a brief perusal, it seems to be just as laden with hard to define concepts and amalgamated words as Dianetics. Does this prove that Hubbard was a dirty rotten cheater? Or just that one of the easiest ways to lend credibility to your argument is to make up big words?

Thanks to Boing Boing for the link to this forum. (http://forums.enturbulation.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4829)

__________

Where did Hubbard steal Scientology from? (http://forums.enturbulation.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4829)

From a German book written in 1934 he had read once. Now, through the miracle of the Internets you too can read it for the first time in ...well ...ever

(incoming tl;dr scans of the book)

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj15/dr3kisawesome/scientologie/scieno1.jpg

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj15/dr3kisawesome/scientologie/scieno2.jpg

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj15/dr3kisawesome/scientologie/scieno3.jpg

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj15/dr3kisawesome/scientologie/scieno4.jpg

____

A Web based version:

http://www.scientologie.org/english.htm

[alkemical]

Also interesting:
The English-language term "Scientology" originated neither with Hubbard nor Nordenholz, but with philologist Allen Upward, who coined the term in 1907 to ridicule pseudoscientific theories.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientologie,_Wissenschaft_von_der_Beschaffenheit_ und_der_Tauglichkeit_des_Wissens

Relationship with Scientology?

Nordenholz's concept of Scientologie has no proven connection to Scientology, which was created later by L. Ron Hubbard, although George Malko notes some possible similarities between the ideas espounded by Nordenholz and Hubbard.[1] However, Roy Wallis casts doubt on the perceived similarities, noting that Malko had used an English translation produced in 1968 by a former Scientologist, Woodward R. McPheeters.Wallis comments: "McPheeters was a Scientologist of many years standing who left the movement for a schismatic offshoot, and in an atmosphere of mutual hostility. It is at least a possibility that this may have influenced the translation. An independent translation which I commissioned, of some pages from the original, seems to bear this out. The possible parallels with Hubbardian formulations are very much less evident." He also notes that there is no evidence that Hubbard could read German. [2]

There also seems to be a much older translation by McPheeters originating from 1934 - way before L. Ron Hubbards Church of Scientology was founded.[3]

The term "Scientologie" is a registered trademark of the Religious Technology Center, which controls the Church of Scientology's trademarks. It is used in French-speaking countries as a localized version of the word "Scientology",[1] though in Germany the Church uses "Scientology" instead.[2]

The Church is currently in dispute with Free Zone Scientologists who have schismed off into their own offshoot of Scientology. They use the domain name scientologie.de for their website; the Church has attempted to force the Free Zoners to relinquish this domain name, claiming trademark infringement, but the German courts have rejected this in the light of Nordenholz having coined the term long before the Church registered it as a trademark.

The English-language term "Scientology" originated neither with Hubbard nor Nordenholz, but with philologist Allen Upward, who coined the term in 1907 to ridicule pseudoscientific theories.[4]

[alkemical]

http://everything2.com/index.pl?node=The%20Heinlein%20-%20Hubbard%20Wager%20Myth

The simple truth of the matter is that a wager never took place. It never happened, end of story. Having said that however, the possibility does exist that a series of conversations between the two authors and commentary made by Heinlein, may have been the catalyst for Hubbard's authorship of Dianetics. Heinlein and Hubbard were close friends and Hubbard greatly respected Heinlein, his opinions and his ideas.

Mr. Patterson revealed to me, "RAH and LRH had one or more discussions during 1944 and or 1945 when they were both in Philadelphia, and RAH pointed out to LRH that religions had an inordinate amount of legal latitude in the U.S. and that churches could engage in a great many activities otherwise thought of as secular, under the tax and other protection churches enjoy. He had already explored these ideas in some of his stories and was to revisit these notions in their original form in Stranger. It is possible that this conversation or series of conversations took place as late as December 1945 or early 1946 and in Los Angeles."

The theme of money and religion was apparently a very popular one for Hubbard as he seems to have mentioned it at several other informal discussions around the same time. In a 1978 interview Harlan Ellison commented "Scientology is bull****! Man, I was there the night L. Ron Hubbard invented it, for Christ Sakes!...We were sitting around one night... who else was there? Alfred Bester, and Cyril Kornbluth, and Lester Del Rey, and Ron Hubbard, who was making a penny a word, and had been for years. And he said "This bull****'s got to stop!" He says, "I gotta get money." He says, "I want to get rich"."

Editor and Author Sam Moskovitz claimed a number of times that Hubbard had made similar remarks at a convention he hosted in Newark in either 1947 or 1948. Another respected SciFi author, Theodore Sturgeon, revealed to Mike Jittlov, himself a respected filmmaker, an incident in the 1940's when Hubbard had become upset and said, "Y'know, we're all wasting our time writing this hack science fiction! You wanta make real money, you gotta start a religion!" Lloyd Arthur Eshback related in his autobiography, an incident in either 1948 or 49, "I think of the time while in New York I took John W. Campbell, Marty Greenberg, and L. Ron Hubbard to lunch...The incident is stamped indelibly in my mind because of one statement that Ron Hubbard made. What led him to say what he did I can't recall--but in so many words Hubbard said: "I'd like to start a religion. That's where the money is!"."

Several of these claims have been refuted, but others have not. The Church of Scientology takes these matters very seriously and has won several court cases in regards to the issue of Scientology's origins and disparaging remarks made against it. The origins of Dianetics and Scientology may still be a little clouded but it seems clear to me now that a wager between the two authors, or anyone else for that matter, was not responsible and while it's possible that Heinlein planted the seed for Hubbard's Dianetics, Mr. Patterson cautioned me to remember, "Both LRH and RAH were talkers of the first water. This particular conversation was one of many they had at the time -- it only looks significant when we see it through the historical lens of experience of what LRH did with the ideas, long after he and RAH had fallen out of intimate personal contact."

[Old Dude]

Famous scientologists:

John Travolta, Tom Cruise, Jason Lee, Kirstie Alley, Anne Archer, Catherine Bell, Katie Holmes, Priscilla Presley, Karen Black, Isaac Hayes, Chaka Khan, Sonny Bono (Deceased), Linda Blair, Moon Martin, Kelly Preston.

Former scientologists (current status unknown ... possibly lapsed):

Nicole Kidman, Gloria Swanson, Neil Gaiman (Oh say it ain't so Neil!), Jerry Seinfield.

http://www.adherents.com/largecom/fam_scientologist.html

[alkemical]

Which Karen black? The actress?

[Old Dude]

Which Karen black? The actress?

Yes, but she has apparently come to her senses ...


http://www.factnet.org/Scientology/celeb1.htm

[alkemical]

interesting

[Rigs11]

Yavoon this is the smartest thread you've ever startedHilarious!

[Florida_Bronco]

Scientology = evil