May 2007: Tight End Roster X's and O'x oh my!

[Odysseus]

Tight End is going to be a position of some value for the Broncos so I am curious as to how many people think they are going to keep and whose those players might be?

1. Daniel Graham - Wow. We got him? Great pickup.
2. Scheffler - This is Cutler's main target
3. Mike Leach - I hope he gets his first NFL TD this year.

4. Trusty Landon - BIG target and supposedly a project with an upside.
5. Chad Mustard - Can he play OT at all?
6. Nate Jackson - Does he have another year in him
7. Stephen Alexander - Mike Shanahan says he likes having him around
8. Teyo Johnson - Is NFLE going to get him a roster slot?


I would like to use this thread to discuss (2) T.E. sets and throw some X's and O's out there and see what people think. If this was your Broncos who would want? How many?

[ludo21]

XOXOXO

Sheffler will improve this year IMO. With a full offseason under Tuten and getting big, I think he will be a much better all around TE.

Finally we will be able to own the middle of the field again with Graham in town!

[CHANGSTER]

Aside from Graham, Shef and Leach I think Mustard and Jackson make the roster.

Mustard will because of his blocking ability. Im hoping we see a Graham/Mustard goal line set this season. That would make Alexander the odd man out.

A Jackson/Shef set will be fun to watch (if he steps up his play this season). Be good to stretch the field and present some missmatches. Other than that he'll make the team cause he's a shanny fav.

[watermock]

I like the idea of moving Scheff into the slot late and drawing a LB with him.

When I start seeing the pitch left I will know we are back.

[anthonypacino]

I think we will keep 4, Sheff, Graham, Mustard, Alexander...I don't count Leach, and maybe the CU kid will take him out. I think Sapp is gonna play RB this year behind Henry, Bell so that will open up things for Mustard playing some FB in goal line and short yardage.

[kmartin575]

Why is everybody so high on Graham? He has never been that great of a receiver.

[cutthemdown]

Aside from Graham, Shef and Leach I think Mustard and Jackson make the roster.

Mustard will because of his blocking ability. Im hoping we see a Graham/Mustard goal line set this season. That would make Alexander the odd man out.

A Jackson/Shef set will be fun to watch (if he steps up his play this season). Be good to stretch the field and present some missmatches. Other than that he'll make the team cause he's a shanny fav.

This prob has a good chance of happening. Mustard backs up Graham. Jackson backs up Scheffler. Alexander I think still makes the team because he sort of can back up both TE spots. When Broncos go 2 TE it may be Alexander and Graham more then you think.

[SoCalBronco]

Why is everybody so high on Graham? He has never been that great of a receiver.

He did have a very good season before, something like 50 receptions, but yeah, he is more of a 30 catch guy. He is quite reliable at the underneath routes and thats the dimension that I think he will add here, along with ofcourse, his superior blocking ability. He'll work underneath routes, while Scheffler will run deeper routes because of his superior speed. At times they can work in tandem, as there are some popular 2 man combinations that would take advantage of each of their skills in the passing game. One example is the very popular Square In-Shallow cross combo, a Denver favorite, which is a good all purpose route, Graham can run that underneath shallow with Scheffler on top on the 10-12 yard square in, you can hit him vs. man and there is a nice hi-lo stretch on the LBs in zone, can't leave your backpedal and jump on Graham underneath or else the square in is open on top. Denver actually runs a multitude of shallow crossing stuff and Shanahan's work in the Shallow Crossing Series is actually well known across the country and has been copied by many clubs, including the Mike Leach-Hal Mumme-Tony Franklin "Air Raid" disciples. I anticipate alot of the shallow series in two TE sets and ofcourse Shanny can use his multiple tags to build on that, they can work a suspect OLB with the Shallow (Graham) and Corner (Scheffler) combination once teams adjust to the Shallow-Square In. Shanny has a whole series using this combination with hi-lo stuff that can be very effective with these two players. For more on Shanahan's Shallow Crossing series (and some of his tags, including the Corner tag), see http://bruceeien.com/offense/selouisana/SELOUISANA.HTM.

I think you'll find Denver also using the popular 4 verticals combination out of a two TE set anytime teams have a tendency to defend that formation with 8 in the box and therefore with 1 safety deep instead of 2 deep. Outside WRs will run off the corners and once the two TEs clear the LBs, Cutler will be able to stretch that sole deep safety horizontally with the two inside vertical routes...force him to choose one or the other.

[Kaylore]

Our Tight Ends change almost more than our backfield. Only two men seem immune:

Mike Leach, because he long snaps.

Nate Jackson, because...he's cool...I guess...

[cutthemdown]

Why is everybody so high on Graham? He has never been that great of a receiver.

Because he can block so well, and catch well enough to be a good threat in the redzone. Also people feel that NE didn't use him as much as the Broncos will. He had 7 tds the one year NE really went to him alot. He has had some nagging injuries here and there which are more of a concern to me then how well he catches. The main reason of course though is that he is a brutal blocker who plays really physical. Broncos are trying to get more physical along the oline and that plays into it.

[jbiel]

Nate Jackson will be gone. I like the guy, but he really has no value for us. Sheff, Graham, Alexander, and Mustard make the roster. Leach probably....

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Why is everybody so high on Graham? He has never been that great of a receiver.

Once again you prove your ignorance.

[kmartin575]

He did have a very good season before, something like 50 receptions, but yeah, he is more of a 30 catch guy. He is quite reliable at the underneath routes and thats the dimension that I think he will add here, along with ofcourse, his superior blocking ability. He'll work underneath routes, while Scheffler will run deeper routes because of his superior speed. At times they can work in tandem, as there are some popular 2 man combinations that would take advantage of each of their skills in the passing game. One example is the very popular Square In-Shallow cross combo, a Denver favorite, which is a good all purpose route, Graham can run that underneath shallow with Scheffler on top on the 10-12 yard square in, you can hit him vs. man and there is a nice hi-lo stretch on the LBs in zone, can't leave your backpedal and jump on Graham underneath or else the square in is open on top. Denver actually runs a multitude of shallow crossing stuff and Shanahan's work in the Shallow Crossing Series is actually well known across the country and has been copied by many clubs, including the Mike Leach-Hal Mumme-Tony Franklin "Air Raid" disciples. I anticipate alot of the shallow series in two TE sets and ofcourse Shanny can use his multiple tags to build on that, they can work a suspect OLB with the Shallow (Graham) and Corner (Scheffler) combination once teams adjust to the Shallow-Square In. Shanny has a whole series using this combination with hi-lo stuff that can be very effective with these two players. For more on Shanahan's Shallow Crossing series (and some of his tags, including the Corner tag), see http://bruceeien.com/offense/selouisana/SELOUISANA.HTM.

I think you'll find Denver also using the popular 4 verticals combination out of a two TE set anytime teams have a tendency to defend that formation with 8 in the box and therefore with 1 safety deep instead of 2 deep. Outside WRs will run off the corners and once the two TEs clear the LBs, Cutler will be able to stretch that sole deep safety horizontally with the two inside vertical routes...force him to choose one or the other.


Wow, you know your stuff.

I'm impressed by your knowledge on this stuff.

[kmartin575]

Once again you prove your ignorance.

Once again, I'm not talking smack.

I'm asking a simple question.

Graham has never been that great of a receiver.

There is a reason Ben Watson was the #1 tight end in New England.

[cutthemdown]

Once again you prove your ignorance.

The best way to deal with trollers is to give them an honest opinion. Never let them get you upset. By posting what you did it just fuels them that you don't have the knowledge to answer a question. Then they bait you again and again until pretty soon you aren't even talking about the TE situation in Denver, and instead are throwing insults disparaging the others football knowledge. Just talk football and you will find these baiters will open themselves up by saying stupid things in an attempt to bait you in. In the end you get to sit back and watch.

[Killericon]

Wasn't Wesley Duke coming back this season?

[watermock]

I was only half awake, but I think I heard Pacman was arrested for speeding and a suspened license.

Correct me if I am wrong. I was half awake.

[Play2win]

Instead, I will just drink glen livet (sp- ??) and watch... "Walk the line..."


I hope its a good movies

[watermock]

glen livet

WTF? You haven't heard of Wild Cherry Enhanced Wine?

[SonOfLe-loLang]

Was Ben Watson even their number 1 tight end? he might have led the TE's in catches, but i dont think he was their "number 1"

[Odysseus]

Nate Jackson will be gone. I like the guy, but he really has no value for us. Sheff, Graham, Alexander, and Mustard make the roster. Leach probably....

All our blocking TE have a history of injury. I'm curious about Nate, Teyo and Chad. I'm wondering which direction the Broncos go.

Nobody is giving Trusty a chance. I heard he was actually pretty decent.

I heard Wesley Duke was trying to come back but he's not currently on the roster.

Given what SoCal said who do fans think are going to benefit the most from this? I think Scheffler is going to do well when called on. He's picked up a lot of weight.

[elsid13]

Well the two end set will get a lot show this year, especial since that how Shanahan likes to attack the 3-4 Defense. What that means is that our backs better get used to running without a FB in front of them.

[WoodMan]

Denver's current crop of TEs really improves the running game. Graham and a healthy Alexander are an excellent pair of blockers. Removing "Curious George" from the right tackle position, Denver should be able to pound the ball with Henry from inside the red zone. A big part of Shannan Sharpe's getting so wide open on the patterns close to the end zone, was the ability to run TD with so much success inside the 10. I think that success returns this year. Denver really needs a couple of studs to step forward at right guard and right tackle. With two starters moving on to the "greener grasses" :rofl: of Detroit and Chokeland the competition should be fierce. I am really looking forward to it. I have no idea who will be starting on the O-line opening day.

[Odysseus]

Well the two end set will get a lot show this year, especial since that how Shanahan likes to attack the 3-4 Defense. What that means is that our backs better get used to running without a FB in front of them.

We haven't had a FB since Howard Griffith. No offense to Sapp or Kyle but we need to use our TE to move traffic. This is why I don't think the Broncos need to go get anything but a starting WR talent. We don't need any more possession guys. That is what the five Tight Ends we normally keep provide.

Woodman is too funny with his Curious George statement.

[broncs2bowl]

I think Alexander needs to be cut because there is no use for him, also we could use some of the extra money we get for cutting him June 1st and spend that on a better SAM LB(maybe Kendrell Bell or Arrington IF he is healthy) or spend that on another DT(maybe Grady Jackson) or even spend some of that money on Keyshawn if we dont think Rod or Stokley will be able to get it done.

[Odysseus]

Let's see...Dump Rod. Pick up Keyshawn. Bring on Arrington or Bell. You lost me after you said cut Alexander.

If Graham gets hurt then our best TE is Scheffler. Who would we use on (2) TE sets? Both Graham and Alexander were banged up by the end of the season. They are both physical players. I think having them both limits the wear reduces the wear and tear. I think having 6 TE is actually a good idea.

I don't know. We'll have to see.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Good thread...I was going to post one of these so I'm glad somebody else did so. I've been thinking about the versitility we have now with two tight end formations, specifically the ability to maximize both Graham and Scheffler in the game at the same time. I realize we need Graham's blocking but I don't like the idea of Scheffler not being on the field to give Jay that big weapon that can stretch the field. I'd like to see us move to a two tight end/one back offense with a twist...instead of always lining up both TE's on the LOS I'd like to see Graham play more of a hybrid role similar to an H-back who moves from the backfield to the LOS at any time so the defense doesn't know where he'll be.

In regular man on man blocking schemes that most teams use it make more sense for a fullback to be the lead blocker through a pre-designated hole, but in the stretch zone where the back has to find the hole, the fullback seems less important. However, there are times like short yardage goal line plays where you want your back just taking a specific route, so I have to give up the lead blocker through the hole. I think Graham could slide back into that FB spot and be a fearsome lead blocker for Henry very easily. He's got the physical attributes to play either spot and our FB's almost never carry the ball anyway.

I also think that having both Graham and Schef in the game at the same time would allow Schef to split wide into the slot at any given tiime and become a downfield receiver. Teams would have a great deal of difficulty trying to match up their nickel back on a 6'6" 260 pound receiver, and liberal use of this formation would make them have to use a bigger, slower safety on the field to cover Scheffler. That's tough to do when you're trying to put 8 in the box. We could create some nice matchup problems by taking advantage of the versitility offered by both these guys, and I can't see to many situations that Graham doesn't bring more to the table than any fullback we put on the field.

It should be about putting our best 11 in the game as often as possible, and I think Scheffler is better than all of our fullbacks so let's keep him in there.

As for which player should make it...Graham, Scheffler, Leach (will we ever get an OL guy who can long snap?) and MABEY only one more...draw straws because I'm not impressed with any of the rest of that lot. We definitely don't need 5 freaking tight ends any longer.

[watermock]

Curious George...I needed to clear some phlem. As far as Sapp goes, if he can come back, he's quite capable of handling the rock.

I've been screaming for the 2 TE set against the 3-4 and Shanny finally took my advice. I hope.

I don't mind Scheff putting on some baby fat, he will work it down. I think he felt drained and wanted to have some extra meat on him for camp. He doesn't seem like the type that battles to take it off, but put it on.

I'm getting incredibly itchy for the season. I swear Shanny is a sadistic bastard for having by far the latest mini camp in the league.

[broncs2bowl]

Let's see...Dump Rod. Pick up Keyshawn. Bring on Arrington or Bell. You lost me after you said cut Alexander.

If Graham gets hurt then our best TE is Scheffler. Who would we use on (2) TE sets? Both Graham and Alexander were banged up by the end of the season. They are both physical players. I think having them both limits the wear reduces the wear and tear. I think having 6 TE is actually a good idea.

I don't know. We'll have to see.

lol...NO I meant just pick up one of the guys: a SAM, a DT or maybe Keyshawn...one of them, not all

[Swedish Extrovert]

Tight End is going to be a position of some value for the Broncos so I am curious as to how many people think they are going to keep and whose those players might be?

1. Daniel Graham - Wow. We got him? Great pickup.
2. Scheffler - This is Cutler's main target
3. Mike Leach - I hope he gets his first NFL TD this year.

4. Trusty Landon - BIG target and supposedly a project with an upside.
5. Chad Mustard - Can he play OT at all?
6. Nate Jackson - Does he have another year in him
7. Stephen Alexander - Mike Shanahan says he likes having him around
8. Teyo Johnson - Is NFLE going to get him a roster slot?


I would like to use this thread to discuss (2) T.E. sets and throw some X's and O's out there and see what people think. If this was your Broncos who would want? How many?

I'd say look for Nate Jackson. He's been with the team for a while and is underrated. Of course, Scheffler showed some brilliance last year and I'm excited about him.

It's always been my opinion that the Tight End is the most underrated position in the NFL. On 3rd and short, a tight end is a QB's best friend. I'm really excited at the Broncos tight end situation.

[eddie mac]

I think Alexander needs to be cut because there is no use for him, also we could use some of the extra money we get for cutting him June 1st and spend that on a better SAM LB(maybe Kendrell Bell or Arrington IF he is healthy) or spend that on another DT(maybe Grady Jackson) or even spend some of that money on Keyshawn if we dont think Rod or Stokley will be able to get it done.

We dont need to cut Alexander to save cap room to bring anyone else in. The Broncos are currently comfortably under the cap and would have plenty of room to add 1-2 more vets. The decision to push most of Wilson's dead cap room into 2008 looks like it was to cover two 1st rd picks but that never panned out.

[Odysseus]

Good thread...I was going to post one of these so I'm glad somebody else did so. I've been thinking about the versitility we have now with two tight end formations, specifically the ability to maximize both Graham and Scheffler in the game at the same time. I realize we need Graham's blocking but I don't like the idea of Scheffler not being on the field to give Jay that big weapon that can stretch the field. I'd like to see us move to a two tight end/one back offense with a twist...instead of always lining up both TE's on the LOS I'd like to see Graham play more of a hybrid role similar to an H-back who moves from the backfield to the LOS at any time so the defense doesn't know where he'll be.

In regular man on man blocking schemes that most teams use it make more sense for a fullback to be the lead blocker through a pre-designated hole, but in the stretch zone where the back has to find the hole, the fullback seems less important. However, there are times like short yardage goal line plays where you want your back just taking a specific route, so I have to give up the lead blocker through the hole. I think Graham could slide back into that FB spot and be a fearsome lead blocker for Henry very easily. He's got the physical attributes to play either spot and our FB's almost never carry the ball anyway.

I also think that having both Graham and Schef in the game at the same time would allow Schef to split wide into the slot at any given tiime and become a downfield receiver. Teams would have a great deal of difficulty trying to match up their nickel back on a 6'6" 260 pound receiver, and liberal use of this formation would make them have to use a bigger, slower safety on the field to cover Scheffler. That's tough to do when you're trying to put 8 in the box. We could create some nice matchup problems by taking advantage of the versitility offered by both these guys, and I can't see to many situations that Graham doesn't bring more to the table than any fullback we put on the field.

It should be about putting our best 11 in the game as often as possible, and I think Scheffler is better than all of our fullbacks so let's keep him in there.

As for which player should make it...Graham, Scheffler, Leach (will we ever get an OL guy who can long snap?) and MABEY only one more...draw straws because I'm not impressed with any of the rest of that lot. We definitely don't need 5 freaking tight ends any longer.

Scheffler and Graham are the guys. I think Alexander could be better utilized and having him to spell Graham or Scheffler might help keep everyone healthy. I think competition is going to be stiff for the 5th slot and wonder which way the Broncos might lean. Do they want the added push on the OL or more targets? Which gives them both?

I agree. Because of the two TE sets the Broncos are going to be able to keep defenses from teeing off on them so they will run the ball better and hide passing plays better. I don't see us doing the rollout as much but when they do it won't be because it's all they have.

I like what you are seeing. I think Graham could play that hybrid role well.

Our offensive line is going to do more than seal the line but they are going to have to punch some holes. I think a real power running game is the ticket for opening up the TE. Heimerdinger has yet to deliver on his statement about getting his targets open and letting them make the play after the catch. Teams double teamed our targets and buried our QB all year.